1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,410 The following content is provided under a Creative 2 00:00:02,410 --> 00:00:03,790 Commons license. 3 00:00:03,790 --> 00:00:06,030 Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare 4 00:00:06,030 --> 00:00:10,100 continue to offer high quality educational resources for free. 5 00:00:10,100 --> 00:00:12,680 To make a donation, or to view additional materials 6 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,426 from hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare 7 00:00:16,426 --> 00:00:17,050 at ocw.mit.edu. 8 00:00:25,672 --> 00:00:27,380 NATALIE KULDELL: So we are among friends, 9 00:00:27,380 --> 00:00:30,830 please call me Natalie, please interrupt me as I go. 10 00:00:30,830 --> 00:00:36,000 Elizabeth has given a very nice framework for-- the high level 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,270 questions about this next little bit of time 12 00:00:39,270 --> 00:00:41,956 are things about creating a scalable educational 13 00:00:41,956 --> 00:00:43,330 experience, and things like that. 14 00:00:43,330 --> 00:00:45,150 But truth be told, this is really 15 00:00:45,150 --> 00:00:47,650 going to be me, my dirty laundry, 16 00:00:47,650 --> 00:00:49,520 telling you all the mistakes I've 17 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:54,080 made in developing something that I thought seemed 18 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:55,520 like a good idea at the time. 19 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,700 How's that as the sort of tag line for this talk? 20 00:00:58,700 --> 00:01:00,760 It seemed like a good idea at the time. 21 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,150 But maybe, just so that you don't go running from the room 22 00:01:05,150 --> 00:01:07,170 and think this is going to be all disaster, 23 00:01:07,170 --> 00:01:11,620 I will start by showing you where this has ended up. 24 00:01:11,620 --> 00:01:15,820 Because where all this meandering and mistake-making 25 00:01:15,820 --> 00:01:18,000 has brought me is to something that I'm actually 26 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,580 pretty proud of, and that seems to be reasonably useful. 27 00:01:20,580 --> 00:01:23,860 I don't think this is the final form of what this will take, 28 00:01:23,860 --> 00:01:27,040 but let's start with where it ends up, 29 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,610 and then we'll rewind the tape and go from the beginning 30 00:01:30,610 --> 00:01:33,130 to get it back to here. 31 00:01:33,130 --> 00:01:38,600 So BioBuilder is now a nonprofit organization 32 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:44,620 that I am founder of, I have a wonderful board of directors 33 00:01:44,620 --> 00:01:46,920 that help protect me and my time, 34 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:54,290 and help me make good decisions about protecting just thinking 35 00:01:54,290 --> 00:01:58,460 through the business questions, and the strategic questions, 36 00:01:58,460 --> 00:02:01,050 and the wisdom questions that are involved in running 37 00:02:01,050 --> 00:02:03,870 a nonprofit organization. 38 00:02:03,870 --> 00:02:07,650 It came about because I thought that the teaching I was doing 39 00:02:07,650 --> 00:02:11,070 here at MIT, in the Department of Biological Engineering, 40 00:02:11,070 --> 00:02:15,310 was such a great way to teach and to learn. 41 00:02:15,310 --> 00:02:20,840 I was having so much fun drawing on current research questions 42 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,870 from the department, and using the questions that 43 00:02:25,870 --> 00:02:27,840 existed to teach the engineering, 44 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,230 and using the engineering to teach the science behind it. 45 00:02:31,230 --> 00:02:34,040 So I'm a scientist by training, not an engineer. 46 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:35,842 In fact, I didn't really even appreciate 47 00:02:35,842 --> 00:02:37,800 the distinction between science and engineering 48 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:43,000 until I got to MIT 12 years ago, or something like that. 49 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,776 I really like learning about how the world works. 50 00:02:45,776 --> 00:02:47,650 What I discovered when I got here and started 51 00:02:47,650 --> 00:02:49,520 teaching this way to the undergrads 52 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,170 was that, by building stuff made from biology, 53 00:02:53,170 --> 00:02:56,060 you learn a lot about how it works. 54 00:02:56,060 --> 00:03:00,120 And so I really just wanted to more broadly distribute 55 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,860 that content to students who wanted to learn this way, 56 00:03:03,860 --> 00:03:06,450 and to teachers who wanted to teach this way. 57 00:03:06,450 --> 00:03:09,840 Pretty simple-- not that wise, maybe, 58 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:14,800 but that's what I've organized this around. 59 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:19,930 And so there is a nonprofit organization that 60 00:03:19,930 --> 00:03:22,920 is called the BioBuilder Educational Foundation which 61 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:29,250 has, as I say, a board of directors, partners, 62 00:03:29,250 --> 00:03:32,640 we have publications and newsletters and things 63 00:03:32,640 --> 00:03:33,960 like that. 64 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:38,440 We are a 501(c)3, and we were founded in 2011. 65 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,570 The funding for this organization 66 00:03:41,570 --> 00:03:43,840 came from the National Science Foundation. 67 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:49,370 They awarded MIT, Harvard, Stanford, UC Berkeley, 68 00:03:49,370 --> 00:03:53,930 and UCSF-- a consortium of five institutions-- 69 00:03:53,930 --> 00:03:55,136 10 years' worth of funding. 70 00:03:55,136 --> 00:03:56,760 From the NSF, that's really unheard of. 71 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,620 And I thought, as the educational director 72 00:03:58,620 --> 00:04:00,500 on the East Coast for this, with 10 years 73 00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:02,880 of funding we could do something really, really cool. 74 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,650 And so what that started with were 75 00:04:05,650 --> 00:04:09,760 animations, which is why I'm here talking to you today. 76 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:14,270 What those animations have been connected into 77 00:04:14,270 --> 00:04:18,839 is a curriculum for students that 78 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,519 has a number of hands-on laboratory activities. 79 00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:25,030 So for example, this one is for students. 80 00:04:25,030 --> 00:04:28,470 These bubbles that are here link to the animations, 81 00:04:28,470 --> 00:04:31,010 but the content that's on the website 82 00:04:31,010 --> 00:04:36,080 is some introductory content, laboratory procedures, 83 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,730 lab report information, and then a portal for sharing your data 84 00:04:40,730 --> 00:04:43,370 once you've collected it. 85 00:04:43,370 --> 00:04:48,250 There's also a teacher's component to this website, 86 00:04:48,250 --> 00:04:51,810 so that teachers, if they wanted to start teaching this content, 87 00:04:51,810 --> 00:04:56,340 would have classroom materials like PowerPoints 88 00:04:56,340 --> 00:05:00,720 to introduce the content, videos about introducing 89 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,610 synthetic biology-- which is what the focus of these labs 90 00:05:03,610 --> 00:05:06,570 are-- and then components for the lab 91 00:05:06,570 --> 00:05:09,080 introductory PowerPoints and things like that. 92 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,510 So this is a website that has information 93 00:05:12,510 --> 00:05:14,040 about the nonprofit organization, 94 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,120 it has curricular content for the students-- which are mostly 95 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,320 high school students and some college students-- 96 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,060 and then it also has a portal for teachers. 97 00:05:22,060 --> 00:05:24,160 We run teacher workshops in the summers 98 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,127 to train teachers how to teach this in the classroom, 99 00:05:27,127 --> 00:05:28,460 and how to teach other teachers. 100 00:05:28,460 --> 00:05:29,372 Yes? 101 00:05:29,372 --> 00:05:32,700 AUDIENCE: So one of the things we talked about yesterday was 102 00:05:32,700 --> 00:05:34,700 this notion of a video being something 103 00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:40,300 more than the experience of just pressing play and finishing it, 104 00:05:40,300 --> 00:05:43,786 that a video is meant to spark an ending, that 105 00:05:43,786 --> 00:05:48,516 is the conversation that happens on comments on YouTube-- 106 00:05:48,516 --> 00:05:51,940 we focused a lot on YouTube and social-media based video. 107 00:05:51,940 --> 00:05:56,324 What is, I guess, the ending or the goal-- or what's 108 00:05:56,324 --> 00:05:58,611 your vision what an ending looks like for things 109 00:05:58,611 --> 00:05:59,800 like BioBuilder? 110 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,092 And what's your user pipeline? 111 00:06:02,092 --> 00:06:03,550 Because for us, we're talking a lot 112 00:06:03,550 --> 00:06:06,050 about people who are exploring the internet 113 00:06:06,050 --> 00:06:08,802 and finding things that spark their curiosity 114 00:06:08,802 --> 00:06:09,830 or love of learning. 115 00:06:09,830 --> 00:06:12,032 I would imagine that something like BioBuilder, 116 00:06:12,032 --> 00:06:15,360 you have a very focused pipeline that's maybe more looking 117 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:16,692 at classrooms? 118 00:06:16,692 --> 00:06:18,150 NATALIE KULDELL: So the distinction 119 00:06:18,150 --> 00:06:21,100 you just made between the focused pipeline 120 00:06:21,100 --> 00:06:24,870 and the user exploring through the internet, 121 00:06:24,870 --> 00:06:26,780 is a distinction that I did not know 122 00:06:26,780 --> 00:06:29,860 when I started this project, but that has become really clear. 123 00:06:29,860 --> 00:06:33,260 So the pipeline for this is really 124 00:06:33,260 --> 00:06:35,580 intended to be formal education setting-- 125 00:06:35,580 --> 00:06:39,345 so I don't know if when you took high school biology, 126 00:06:39,345 --> 00:06:41,650 you took advanced placement biology or something like 127 00:06:41,650 --> 00:06:44,350 that, there are this series of lessons and labs. 128 00:06:44,350 --> 00:06:47,950 And these are intended to fit squarely into formal education 129 00:06:47,950 --> 00:06:51,750 settings, where teachers have content that they need 130 00:06:51,750 --> 00:06:55,860 to cover, hands-on labs that teach techniques as well 131 00:06:55,860 --> 00:06:58,550 as investigative questions, and then writing 132 00:06:58,550 --> 00:07:01,340 and points to communicate their work. 133 00:07:01,340 --> 00:07:03,580 Originally-- and maybe this is a good segue 134 00:07:03,580 --> 00:07:07,350 into to how this really started-- this was my notion. 135 00:07:07,350 --> 00:07:10,920 I don't know if you've ever seen this website-- I'm sure many 136 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,900 of you have-- BrainPOP. 137 00:07:13,900 --> 00:07:16,000 This was what I thought the animations were 138 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,280 going to fit into. 139 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,990 This is kind of the explore the internet 140 00:07:19,990 --> 00:07:22,620 depending on what you're curious about 141 00:07:22,620 --> 00:07:25,820 kind of sense of the animations that are in BioBuilder. 142 00:07:25,820 --> 00:07:30,040 So cellular life in genetics-- and maybe 143 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,370 in watching cellular life in genetics, a person 144 00:07:32,370 --> 00:07:34,720 would get interested in something 145 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,350 in particular-- cloning, or whatever. 146 00:07:36,350 --> 00:07:40,330 And so this is a very rich library of animations 147 00:07:40,330 --> 00:07:45,044 that a person can self-navigate through, and learn content 148 00:07:45,044 --> 00:07:46,710 that they're particularly interested in. 149 00:07:46,710 --> 00:07:49,260 And I imagined, when I started this project, 150 00:07:49,260 --> 00:07:53,120 that I would build a library of videos that looked like this. 151 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:54,561 That is not where I have ended up. 152 00:07:54,561 --> 00:07:56,060 That was, in fact, really misguided. 153 00:07:56,060 --> 00:07:57,857 Yeah? 154 00:07:57,857 --> 00:08:01,849 AUDIENCE: My question is-- you're in the kind of structure 155 00:08:01,849 --> 00:08:04,344 and giving this to students and teachers, 156 00:08:04,344 --> 00:08:06,994 how do you choose what to pick as a-- 157 00:08:06,994 --> 00:08:08,160 NATALIE KULDELL: As a topic? 158 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,740 Right, so I work with high school teachers 159 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:12,352 every summer to decide on the topics. 160 00:08:12,352 --> 00:08:14,060 The very first thing that the high school 161 00:08:14,060 --> 00:08:16,351 teachers I've worked with told me was that they did not 162 00:08:16,351 --> 00:08:19,647 have more time in their day to teach other stuff, 163 00:08:19,647 --> 00:08:21,230 but that they did feel that they could 164 00:08:21,230 --> 00:08:23,550 teach what they were teaching in a better 165 00:08:23,550 --> 00:08:24,850 way, in a more effective way. 166 00:08:24,850 --> 00:08:28,350 And they thought engineering was a great lens to teach biology, 167 00:08:28,350 --> 00:08:31,848 in particular, and these current research questions. 168 00:08:31,848 --> 00:08:34,380 AUDIENCE: And they're giving you the concept that has to be 169 00:08:34,380 --> 00:08:36,387 covered, and you're coming up with the example that-- 170 00:08:36,387 --> 00:08:38,443 are they saying, it would be nice if we could use this 171 00:08:38,443 --> 00:08:39,054 example for-- 172 00:08:39,054 --> 00:08:40,970 NATALIE KULDELL: So it's more of a partnership 173 00:08:40,970 --> 00:08:42,980 than that, because what I'll do is I'll say, 174 00:08:42,980 --> 00:08:44,860 here's a really interesting system that 175 00:08:44,860 --> 00:08:47,860 has an ongoing question associated with it-- how do 176 00:08:47,860 --> 00:08:49,720 you reliably engineer a cell? 177 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:56,020 How do you improve gain in a system? 178 00:08:56,020 --> 00:08:57,070 Something like that. 179 00:08:57,070 --> 00:08:58,800 And they'll say, oh, well, you know, 180 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,550 I don't really know much about that topic, 181 00:09:00,550 --> 00:09:02,799 but I have always had trouble teaching photosynthesis. 182 00:09:02,799 --> 00:09:05,030 So is there a way that we could teach that question 183 00:09:05,030 --> 00:09:06,650 and cover photosynthesis. 184 00:09:06,650 --> 00:09:09,340 So I'll say, well, in a plant cell, we could do it this way. 185 00:09:09,340 --> 00:09:11,100 So it's more of a give and take-- 186 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:13,490 what they have challenges teaching, 187 00:09:13,490 --> 00:09:15,840 and what are the ongoing research 188 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,020 questions in this field. 189 00:09:19,020 --> 00:09:22,030 So this kind of BrainPOP kind of meandering 190 00:09:22,030 --> 00:09:23,860 through a library of videos is what 191 00:09:23,860 --> 00:09:26,080 I imagined I would be creating at the beginning 192 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,240 of this 10-year NSF funding. 193 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,240 What I had not appreciated was how long 194 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,740 it takes to make each video, how hard it is to make each video, 195 00:09:37,740 --> 00:09:42,540 and how bad I am at making each video. 196 00:09:42,540 --> 00:09:45,630 So let me just walk you through the very first video 197 00:09:45,630 --> 00:09:46,260 that I made. 198 00:09:46,260 --> 00:09:49,450 So in preparation for this conversation, 199 00:09:49,450 --> 00:09:52,600 I went back to some of the earlier stuff that I had done. 200 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,890 And I'll tell you that the characters that 201 00:09:54,890 --> 00:09:59,520 are in these videos started with the characters that 202 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:04,930 were-- these are all animated videos, they're all animations. 203 00:10:04,930 --> 00:10:08,360 And the characters who are in them 204 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,340 started with this comic strip, which 205 00:10:10,340 --> 00:10:14,160 appeared in the journal, Nature, in 2005. 206 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,230 So this was the launch of some of the interest 207 00:10:18,230 --> 00:10:20,860 around the field of synthetic biology. 208 00:10:20,860 --> 00:10:23,490 There were some splashy papers in Nature, 209 00:10:23,490 --> 00:10:25,910 as well as this comic strip, and it 210 00:10:25,910 --> 00:10:30,730 shows the adventures of a woman in the lab named System Sally, 211 00:10:30,730 --> 00:10:34,140 and a boy who's just super curious named Device Dude, 212 00:10:34,140 --> 00:10:38,210 and Buddy, who is this little green blob in the middle there. 213 00:10:38,210 --> 00:10:41,420 And it's a really fun comic-- I like comics a lot, 214 00:10:41,420 --> 00:10:42,540 I grew up with Spider-man. 215 00:10:42,540 --> 00:10:45,040 I love comic books. 216 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,370 And I like this one until it gets 217 00:10:48,370 --> 00:10:50,310 to the really hard content. 218 00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:53,930 So right at the fold here, right at the midpoint, 219 00:10:53,930 --> 00:10:56,880 it starts to talk about engineered genetic devices. 220 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,550 And I'll pass this around. 221 00:10:58,550 --> 00:11:01,190 There's a lot of content here, Boolean 222 00:11:01,190 --> 00:11:04,380 logic gates, ribosome binding sites-- 223 00:11:04,380 --> 00:11:06,210 you have to be an expert to understand 224 00:11:06,210 --> 00:11:08,590 what was going on in that comic. 225 00:11:08,590 --> 00:11:13,300 So my naive thought was, I would take these characters-- 226 00:11:13,300 --> 00:11:16,630 because they were very popular, people really liked them-- 227 00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:19,090 and I would have dialogue between them 228 00:11:19,090 --> 00:11:21,610 to explain these ideas, rather than have them 229 00:11:21,610 --> 00:11:24,580 on the page with just bubbles and question marks and things 230 00:11:24,580 --> 00:11:26,390 like that. 231 00:11:26,390 --> 00:11:30,470 So in a very lucky way, It turns out 232 00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:33,200 that my college roommate's husband 233 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:34,510 runs an animation company. 234 00:11:34,510 --> 00:11:37,650 So that's how I got connected with animated storyboards. 235 00:11:37,650 --> 00:11:39,530 They gave me a very nice discount 236 00:11:39,530 --> 00:11:45,570 on what they would do in terms of these animations-- 237 00:11:45,570 --> 00:11:46,800 it was still expensive. 238 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:51,060 But this was the transition that was made. 239 00:11:51,060 --> 00:11:53,226 So the comic book turned into this website, 240 00:11:53,226 --> 00:11:54,100 which was BioBuilder. 241 00:11:54,100 --> 00:11:56,850 This was the very first iteration of the website. 242 00:11:56,850 --> 00:12:01,420 And it had, on the left hand panel, 243 00:12:01,420 --> 00:12:04,010 the idea was there would be science animations, engineering 244 00:12:04,010 --> 00:12:07,020 animations, technology animations, things like that. 245 00:12:07,020 --> 00:12:10,230 And like BrainPOP site, you would enter that, 246 00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:12,650 and there would be a whole library of animations 247 00:12:12,650 --> 00:12:15,150 that you could explore. 248 00:12:15,150 --> 00:12:17,180 In the end, I don't have enough years 249 00:12:17,180 --> 00:12:20,290 to live to populate the site. 250 00:12:20,290 --> 00:12:22,540 It takes so long to make each of these animations-- 251 00:12:22,540 --> 00:12:24,830 it would take me forever to really populate 252 00:12:24,830 --> 00:12:28,260 the site for visitors to self-navigate through the topic 253 00:12:28,260 --> 00:12:29,640 areas. 254 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,740 So this was the original idea. 255 00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:34,320 Then I started working with a teacher, 256 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,430 and the website changed to look more 257 00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:41,200 like this-- where the animations were 258 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,900 put into a formal context of activities, 259 00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:47,057 there was also a link where you could go directly 260 00:12:47,057 --> 00:12:49,640 to the animations, if you just wanted to watch the animations. 261 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,460 So this was sort of the transition period, where there 262 00:12:52,460 --> 00:12:55,280 was both a library of animations and activities 263 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,100 that you could do, if you wanted to teach with these animations. 264 00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:02,210 There were also single-page comic strips-- so 265 00:13:02,210 --> 00:13:05,450 returning to what was originally the unsuccessful version-- 266 00:13:05,450 --> 00:13:08,500 single-page comic strips that set up each of the laboratory 267 00:13:08,500 --> 00:13:10,040 activities. 268 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,560 And this was the transition to, then, 269 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:14,600 the third version of the website, which 270 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,650 I showed you at the beginning. 271 00:13:16,650 --> 00:13:19,950 So let me show you, since you're working on animations 272 00:13:19,950 --> 00:13:23,500 of your own, let me show you some of the detail, some 273 00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:28,680 of the things that went into building that very first-- 274 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:31,890 well, let me show you the first animation I did. 275 00:13:31,890 --> 00:13:32,540 How about that? 276 00:13:32,540 --> 00:13:34,456 I'll show you what these animations look like, 277 00:13:34,456 --> 00:13:37,250 and then I'll show you some of the fun and the choices 278 00:13:37,250 --> 00:13:39,630 that went into making this animation in particular. 279 00:13:39,630 --> 00:13:41,372 Does that sound like a reasonable plan? 280 00:13:41,372 --> 00:13:43,872 AUDIENCE: This would be a great review, because on Thursday, 281 00:13:43,872 --> 00:13:45,273 Josh from [INAUDIBLE]. 282 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,680 NATALIE KULDELL: Great, great. 283 00:13:50,680 --> 00:13:51,680 [VIDEO PLAYBACK] 284 00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:53,180 [BUBBLES] 285 00:13:59,890 --> 00:14:02,050 -Dude , no running in the laboratory. 286 00:14:02,050 --> 00:14:05,110 -Sorry, Sally-- but have you heard about this competition? 287 00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:07,970 It's called iGem, and I think my bacterial bubble could totally 288 00:14:07,970 --> 00:14:09,190 win this year. 289 00:14:09,190 --> 00:14:11,570 -I thought you were done with bacterial bubbles. 290 00:14:11,570 --> 00:14:13,730 And what do you know about iGem? 291 00:14:13,730 --> 00:14:15,400 -Um, not much, except that there's going 292 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,310 to be a bunch of losers and me. 293 00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:21,070 -I don't think you understand the nature of this competition. 294 00:14:21,070 --> 00:14:23,850 iGem-- the International Genetically Engineered Machine 295 00:14:23,850 --> 00:14:26,120 Competition is a way to get young scientists 296 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,010 and engineers working together to engineer biological systems. 297 00:14:30,010 --> 00:14:31,086 -Working together? 298 00:14:31,086 --> 00:14:32,710 Where's the competitive spirit in that? 299 00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:37,330 The dude works alone, that way the dude gets all the credit. 300 00:14:37,330 --> 00:14:39,660 -You need to be a member of a team to join iGem, 301 00:14:39,660 --> 00:14:41,330 and you need a professor to lead it. 302 00:14:41,330 --> 00:14:43,250 -But I heard it was a student competition. 303 00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:46,240 -Well, yes, the competition started in 2004, 304 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,010 based on an undergraduate class developed at MIT in 2003 305 00:14:50,010 --> 00:14:51,810 for their short winter session. 306 00:14:51,810 --> 00:14:54,530 And it continues to be an undergraduate experience-- 307 00:14:54,530 --> 00:14:56,620 but not without guidance and support. 308 00:14:56,620 --> 00:14:58,580 Last year, there were more than 30 teams 309 00:14:58,580 --> 00:15:01,000 who competed from all over the world. 310 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,500 -So that's my competition? 311 00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:04,770 That's a lot of people. 312 00:15:04,770 --> 00:15:07,430 -A lot of people all asking the same question-- 313 00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:09,910 can simple biological systems be built 314 00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:12,090 from standard interchangeable parts, 315 00:15:12,090 --> 00:15:14,470 and operate in living cells? 316 00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:17,190 Or is biology simply too complicated 317 00:15:17,190 --> 00:15:18,780 to be engineered in this way? 318 00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:19,760 What do you think? 319 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,120 -Biology is not too complicated for me. 320 00:15:24,820 --> 00:15:26,830 -The goals of this competition are 321 00:15:26,830 --> 00:15:29,540 to enable systematic engineering of biology, 322 00:15:29,540 --> 00:15:32,440 promote open and transparent development of tools 323 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,820 for engineering biology, and help 324 00:15:34,820 --> 00:15:37,290 construct a society that can productively 325 00:15:37,290 --> 00:15:41,120 apply biological technology. 326 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,760 -OK, I got a lot of work ahead of me. 327 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,910 If we're not going to use my bubble idea, 328 00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:47,850 what else is possible? 329 00:15:47,850 --> 00:15:51,230 -Maybe a better question would be, what isn't possible? 330 00:15:51,230 --> 00:15:54,360 -OK, so first off, what's your standard interchangeable 331 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:54,860 part be? 332 00:15:54,860 --> 00:15:56,020 Actually, what parts exist? 333 00:15:56,020 --> 00:15:57,250 Do we have to make those? 334 00:15:57,250 --> 00:15:59,010 -You'll probably need more than one, 335 00:15:59,010 --> 00:16:01,380 but the registry of standard biological parts 336 00:16:01,380 --> 00:16:04,582 is a great resource, with lots of parts already designed. 337 00:16:04,582 --> 00:16:06,040 And if we make parts of our own, we 338 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:07,770 should add them to the registry, in case 339 00:16:07,770 --> 00:16:09,790 other teams can use them, too. 340 00:16:09,790 --> 00:16:11,590 -And help other teams? 341 00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:13,290 What kind of competition is that? 342 00:16:13,290 --> 00:16:16,850 Of is that how so many teams got cool projects going last year? 343 00:16:16,850 --> 00:16:19,080 Pleasant-smelling bacteria, a bacteria nightlight, 344 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,000 a DNA drug delivery system-- I heard one team even 345 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,250 made up bacterial freeze tag. 346 00:16:24,250 --> 00:16:26,924 To beat those, we should get started right now. 347 00:16:26,924 --> 00:16:29,090 -All right, well let's brainstorm for a little while 348 00:16:29,090 --> 00:16:30,720 before I have to get back to work. 349 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:31,760 How does that sound? 350 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:32,790 -Great. 351 00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:34,520 Can you show me this registry? 352 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,290 Maybe we can find some good parts to use. 353 00:16:37,290 --> 00:16:38,600 -Good idea, Dude. 354 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:39,870 Let's start there. 355 00:16:39,870 --> 00:16:41,756 This is where you'll be able to search. 356 00:16:41,756 --> 00:16:42,830 -Oh, wow! 357 00:16:42,830 --> 00:16:44,000 [END VIDEO PLAYBACK] 358 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,020 NATALIE KULDELL: All right, so that, for better or worse, 359 00:16:48,020 --> 00:16:52,190 is probably the best video that's on my website. 360 00:16:52,190 --> 00:16:57,010 And you know, it was done several years ago, 361 00:16:57,010 --> 00:16:58,310 it still holds true. 362 00:16:58,310 --> 00:17:03,770 So in some ways it-- it still very accurately describes iGem. 363 00:17:03,770 --> 00:17:05,901 It has some old screen shots of the registry 364 00:17:05,901 --> 00:17:07,359 and things like that, but you know, 365 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,220 it was done five years ago and I think 366 00:17:09,220 --> 00:17:11,530 it holds up reasonably well. 367 00:17:11,530 --> 00:17:15,069 It was fun to make, so let me show you some of the fun things 368 00:17:15,069 --> 00:17:16,569 that were involved in making it. 369 00:17:16,569 --> 00:17:18,069 One thing was the script. 370 00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:22,339 So the script was written by a former undergrad of mine 371 00:17:22,339 --> 00:17:26,930 in biological engineering, and she did a summer UROP with me, 372 00:17:26,930 --> 00:17:28,850 and wrote some of these scripts. 373 00:17:28,850 --> 00:17:31,930 And then it was edited by a woman 374 00:17:31,930 --> 00:17:34,310 who's on my board who is also a screenwriter. 375 00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:37,700 And this just shows you some of the edits that were 376 00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:39,872 involved in that short script. 377 00:17:39,872 --> 00:17:41,080 "Dude, no running in the lab. 378 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:42,950 Sorry, Sally, but have you heard about this competition? 379 00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:43,660 It's called iGem. 380 00:17:43,660 --> 00:17:46,410 I think my bacterial bubble could totally win this year." 381 00:17:46,410 --> 00:17:49,220 And she deleted, "I don't much about it, 382 00:17:49,220 --> 00:17:51,500 but someone gave me a flyer for it." 383 00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:56,580 So there were a lot of deletions and edits on the text, itself. 384 00:17:56,580 --> 00:17:58,230 And if you like writing, and if you 385 00:17:58,230 --> 00:18:01,710 like this kind of sentence level work, 386 00:18:01,710 --> 00:18:04,020 this is actually pretty fun and creative. 387 00:18:04,020 --> 00:18:07,190 I'm not very good at it, but I think it's fun. 388 00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:09,490 The other part that I would say was 389 00:18:09,490 --> 00:18:15,860 pretty fun was-- oh, before we did the storyboarding actually, 390 00:18:15,860 --> 00:18:21,718 we did-- where are those pictures? 391 00:18:26,020 --> 00:18:28,110 Maybe it's here. 392 00:18:28,110 --> 00:18:32,090 Yeah, so the company that did these animations 393 00:18:32,090 --> 00:18:36,200 sent me pictures of people who were posing 394 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,860 in ways that they thought they would 395 00:18:37,860 --> 00:18:40,350 be using in this animation. 396 00:18:40,350 --> 00:18:45,250 And I got to choose which little boy I wanted 397 00:18:45,250 --> 00:18:50,320 to be Dude in these comics. 398 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,560 So I don't remember which one I chose, but these are all 399 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,070 shots of actors that they have who 400 00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:58,730 come in and pose in ways that they would think 401 00:18:58,730 --> 00:19:00,490 might fit the script, and then you 402 00:19:00,490 --> 00:19:04,300 get to choose which one they're going to base the image on. 403 00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:09,460 I also got to choose voices, and I have an early read-through 404 00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:10,446 here that-- 405 00:19:10,446 --> 00:19:11,112 [AUDIO PLAYBACK] 406 00:19:11,112 --> 00:19:13,470 -My bacteria bubble could totally win this year. 407 00:19:13,470 --> 00:19:16,410 -I thought you were done with bacterial bubbles. 408 00:19:16,410 --> 00:19:18,760 What do you know about iGem? 409 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,910 -Not much, except that there's going to be 410 00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:23,017 a bunch of losers, and me. 411 00:19:23,017 --> 00:19:23,850 [END AUDIO PLAYBACK] 412 00:19:23,850 --> 00:19:25,849 NATALIE KULDELL: So that was a quick read of one 413 00:19:25,849 --> 00:19:28,290 of the candidates for the voices and stuff like that. 414 00:19:28,290 --> 00:19:30,410 So that was kind of fun to work with them 415 00:19:30,410 --> 00:19:32,900 to choose actors who were doing the still 416 00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:35,350 shots, and the voices, and things like that. 417 00:19:35,350 --> 00:19:38,340 And then they did the storyboarding 418 00:19:38,340 --> 00:19:43,480 for this animation, which I had never done before. 419 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,186 They were very talented at-- they knew where to break it up 420 00:19:46,186 --> 00:19:47,310 and which shots they'd use. 421 00:19:47,310 --> 00:19:50,970 And in watching that video now, and honestly 422 00:19:50,970 --> 00:19:52,810 I don't watch these videos regularly, 423 00:19:52,810 --> 00:19:55,960 so it's interesting to see a couple things that I think 424 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,030 still work reasonably well. 425 00:19:58,030 --> 00:20:02,050 I think it's short enough, it doesn't go on and on-- 426 00:20:02,050 --> 00:20:04,130 so could be a little bit shorter, 427 00:20:04,130 --> 00:20:05,830 but I think it's pretty interesting. 428 00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:08,410 I think it zooms in and out of a reality 429 00:20:08,410 --> 00:20:09,990 scene and a non-real scene. 430 00:20:09,990 --> 00:20:12,920 And it covers the questions they have. 431 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,140 There's a little bit of lingo and secrecy to it 432 00:20:15,140 --> 00:20:18,590 that's not as easy to understand, 433 00:20:18,590 --> 00:20:20,550 if you don't already know iGem a little bit. 434 00:20:20,550 --> 00:20:22,820 But I think it answers most questions that people 435 00:20:22,820 --> 00:20:24,810 would have about iGem. 436 00:20:24,810 --> 00:20:25,310 Yes? 437 00:20:25,310 --> 00:20:29,666 AUDIENCE: Why did you choose to do animations rather than film 438 00:20:29,666 --> 00:20:32,580 a real woman with a boy? 439 00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:38,450 NATALIE KULDELL: I think I was misinformed, 440 00:20:38,450 --> 00:20:40,890 that I thought animations would be quicker and easier. 441 00:20:40,890 --> 00:20:43,350 And then I also had that BrainPOP idea 442 00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:47,310 in mind, and this comic strip in mind, 443 00:20:47,310 --> 00:20:51,190 which had Buddy, this sort of bacteria thing, 444 00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:52,980 as one of the characters. 445 00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:57,040 And so I didn't think a puppet or something would make sense. 446 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:01,120 But that does lead me to a mistake that I made. 447 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:03,720 And again, if I knew then what I know now-- 448 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,930 who's my audience for this? 449 00:21:05,930 --> 00:21:09,260 I mean, would high school students watch this? 450 00:21:09,260 --> 00:21:10,340 I don't think so. 451 00:21:10,340 --> 00:21:15,780 I think it's too young for high school students, and too old 452 00:21:15,780 --> 00:21:17,590 for middle school students. 453 00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:21,800 It kind of doesn't have-- frankly, I 454 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,440 show it to my undergrads, so I was like, I'm OK with that. 455 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,080 So maybe it's OK for MIT undergrads, 456 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:31,190 but then it doesn't really have a great audience mark. 457 00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:34,240 And the high school teachers who are now using them, 458 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:35,057 it's pretty rare. 459 00:21:35,057 --> 00:21:36,640 I mean, they may assign them to people 460 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,280 to watch the night before they come in 461 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,290 and start the discussion on synthetic biology, 462 00:21:40,290 --> 00:21:42,400 or start their iGem team, but it's not something 463 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,590 they show in the classroom. 464 00:21:44,590 --> 00:21:45,590 Yeah? 465 00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:48,590 AUDIENCE: So what was the intent behind making it? 466 00:21:48,590 --> 00:21:53,280 Because we talk a lot about what is going to be your what, why, 467 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,144 and how questions before you make a video. 468 00:21:57,144 --> 00:21:59,076 Was it to make something that was 469 00:21:59,076 --> 00:22:01,249 instructional for people who were already interested 470 00:22:01,249 --> 00:22:03,412 in iGem? 471 00:22:03,412 --> 00:22:04,787 And if so, what you made you want 472 00:22:04,787 --> 00:22:08,910 to do a video over a comic book, for instance? 473 00:22:08,910 --> 00:22:13,700 What was that initial interest? 474 00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:18,270 NATALIE KULDELL: I thought-- why are there all the words listed 475 00:22:18,270 --> 00:22:20,040 in the dictionary? 476 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,940 My goal was to actually make like a Wikipedia 477 00:22:22,940 --> 00:22:26,180 of synthetic biology, covering the relevant topics 478 00:22:26,180 --> 00:22:27,440 through animation. 479 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,260 So I wasn't being selective-- I had to choose something 480 00:22:30,260 --> 00:22:31,440 to start with. 481 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,820 iGem was my first, because it seemed to really capture 482 00:22:34,820 --> 00:22:37,950 some of the unique features of synthetic biology, 483 00:22:37,950 --> 00:22:42,040 and was explainable in a way. 484 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,860 It's a discrete entity, not too technical or anything 485 00:22:44,860 --> 00:22:48,500 like that, that I could cover. 486 00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:53,250 But it was really intended to be encyclopedic, not targeted 487 00:22:53,250 --> 00:22:55,780 to an area that I wanted to cover-- 488 00:22:55,780 --> 00:22:58,140 except synthetic biology. 489 00:22:58,140 --> 00:23:00,470 When I started this project, people 490 00:23:00,470 --> 00:23:02,720 were coming to me for learning materials 491 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,860 about synthetic biology, and some of those people 492 00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:08,670 were people in government and policy, some of them 493 00:23:08,670 --> 00:23:11,950 were biologists wanting to learn engineering, and some of them 494 00:23:11,950 --> 00:23:14,530 were engineers wanting to learn biology. 495 00:23:14,530 --> 00:23:16,960 And I was not going to make a comment 496 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,760 book, or a different way for each of those populations 497 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:22,670 to learn. 498 00:23:22,670 --> 00:23:26,760 I guess my thinking was that through self-navigation 499 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,640 through animations, people could learn 500 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,390 what they wanted to learn. 501 00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:34,880 But what it requires is a really rich library 502 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,780 of animations to look through. 503 00:23:36,780 --> 00:23:40,220 And this took me a full summer to do, 504 00:23:40,220 --> 00:23:42,900 and I just don't have that much time. 505 00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:45,220 I mean, I would need hundreds of animations, 506 00:23:45,220 --> 00:23:49,080 and I just didn't have time. 507 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,360 Then, to top it off, when the teacher finally came to me 508 00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:54,750 and said, I can't teach this way. 509 00:23:54,750 --> 00:23:57,230 There's no narrative to using these. 510 00:23:57,230 --> 00:23:59,150 I need a hook, I need a something 511 00:23:59,150 --> 00:24:02,260 that introduce to my students. 512 00:24:02,260 --> 00:24:05,240 It has to fit into a framework. 513 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,590 That's when starting with the research 514 00:24:07,590 --> 00:24:10,940 questions in the field, and using these animations 515 00:24:10,940 --> 00:24:14,110 to support the background that you 516 00:24:14,110 --> 00:24:16,500 learn to do the investigation, just seemed 517 00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:19,320 to make a lot more sense. 518 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:24,260 So if we look back to the website, 519 00:24:24,260 --> 00:24:28,410 and we go to the student side, we 520 00:24:28,410 --> 00:24:31,780 can look at this one-- what a colorful world. 521 00:24:31,780 --> 00:24:35,650 So now the bacterial growth curves animation is here. 522 00:24:35,650 --> 00:24:38,650 I did, I will say, introduce another character, 523 00:24:38,650 --> 00:24:41,359 Izzie the iGemmer-- she's Latina, 524 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,400 somebody said you should have a little diversity. 525 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:49,300 Anyway, again, it has all kinds of probably rookie mistakes 526 00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:51,590 that you guys will never make, thanks to your course 527 00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:53,140 that you're taking now at IAP. 528 00:24:53,140 --> 00:24:56,860 But this is the idea, is that now these animations don't 529 00:24:56,860 --> 00:24:59,830 stand on their own the way like BrainPOP does, 530 00:24:59,830 --> 00:25:02,010 and you sort of meander through them. 531 00:25:02,010 --> 00:25:05,410 Now they're part of the background material 532 00:25:05,410 --> 00:25:07,720 you can look at and read and understand, 533 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,310 in order to do some biodesign, or some experiments 534 00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:15,935 about transformation of bacteria to different colors, 535 00:25:15,935 --> 00:25:16,810 and things like that. 536 00:25:20,810 --> 00:25:22,950 Were there are other-- tell me what would 537 00:25:22,950 --> 00:25:24,962 be relevant for your work here. 538 00:25:24,962 --> 00:25:26,920 -OK, I was thinking that since you work so well 539 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,625 with the high school population, if you could orient 540 00:25:30,625 --> 00:25:33,930 these guys a little bit, since you work so well with teachers 541 00:25:33,930 --> 00:25:37,980 and the students, understanding that age range. 542 00:25:37,980 --> 00:25:39,905 Right before you work with them, which 543 00:25:39,905 --> 00:25:43,440 is our target audience, what are some science concepts 544 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:48,050 that those kids-- like what do they know? 545 00:25:48,050 --> 00:25:50,200 It wasn't that long ago that you were that age, 546 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,660 but you've done a lot since then. 547 00:25:51,660 --> 00:25:53,090 You probably forget. 548 00:25:53,090 --> 00:25:55,050 Meeting with the sixth graders would probably 549 00:25:55,050 --> 00:25:57,466 be very informative to think about, oh, what do they know, 550 00:25:57,466 --> 00:25:58,591 what don't they know? 551 00:25:58,591 --> 00:26:00,840 But maybe it would be helpful, since you have a better 552 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,850 understanding of what's taught when, 553 00:26:03,850 --> 00:26:05,870 for them to have a sense of-- say 554 00:26:05,870 --> 00:26:09,085 sixth grade is kind of our target, 555 00:26:09,085 --> 00:26:10,995 what do those kids know, and what don't they 556 00:26:10,995 --> 00:26:12,870 know about science? 557 00:26:12,870 --> 00:26:15,670 AUDIENCE: Sorry, if I can add one more thing, 558 00:26:15,670 --> 00:26:17,688 it's really important because even if-- I mean, 559 00:26:17,688 --> 00:26:20,556 I had you guys meet with the sixth graders today, 560 00:26:20,556 --> 00:26:24,380 but that doesn't mean that your videos should be talking 561 00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:25,560 to a ten-year-old, right? 562 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,410 Because that's really the basic knowledge 563 00:26:28,410 --> 00:26:32,480 base of the average public view, that they're 564 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,855 not really going to remember the science 565 00:26:34,855 --> 00:26:39,260 that they learned beyond middle school or high school. 566 00:26:39,260 --> 00:26:42,720 So don't mistake understanding an audience of sixth graders 567 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,080 as thinking that it's an audience of ten-year-olds, 568 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,010 that you're talking to them like they're 10. 569 00:26:48,010 --> 00:26:50,168 Because the person who watches Myth Busters, 570 00:26:50,168 --> 00:26:53,120 and the person who goes to vote on certain policies, 571 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,088 they're going to share a knowledge base. 572 00:26:55,088 --> 00:26:56,564 So that's why I think it's important to orient yourself 573 00:26:56,564 --> 00:26:57,548 to that audience. 574 00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:06,640 NATALIE KULDELL: So in terms of what folks know and don't know, 575 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,770 where this content currently is positioned 576 00:27:10,770 --> 00:27:14,150 is to fit into the formal frameworks 577 00:27:14,150 --> 00:27:17,130 that most high schools teach for biology. 578 00:27:17,130 --> 00:27:19,860 In particular, the advanced placement biology classes. 579 00:27:19,860 --> 00:27:23,340 And the reason for that is that, because their laboratory based, 580 00:27:23,340 --> 00:27:26,470 you really kind of need particular equipment, 581 00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:30,410 you need time in your day to do this kind of stuff 582 00:27:30,410 --> 00:27:35,480 with them-- if it's a hands-on lab activity-- 583 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,910 and so the advanced placement curriculum has that built in, 584 00:27:38,910 --> 00:27:41,580 and you can make some presumptions about what's 585 00:27:41,580 --> 00:27:46,080 available, and what isn't, what sorts of basic knowledge 586 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:46,580 they have. 587 00:27:46,580 --> 00:27:49,980 At the high school level, generally speaking, 588 00:27:49,980 --> 00:27:52,340 there's good abstract thinking. 589 00:27:52,340 --> 00:27:58,330 You can think about things that you can't see and understand 590 00:27:58,330 --> 00:28:02,290 what's going on with them, without actually having 591 00:28:02,290 --> 00:28:06,830 to either manipulate them directly, or visualize 592 00:28:06,830 --> 00:28:10,490 them, have them right in front of you. 593 00:28:10,490 --> 00:28:13,510 At the middle school level, I don't know that that's true. 594 00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:16,290 And I will say there is a BioBuilder junior site that's 595 00:28:16,290 --> 00:28:21,357 quite fledgling, and not as robust as this, 596 00:28:21,357 --> 00:28:22,940 but that there's great interest in it. 597 00:28:22,940 --> 00:28:24,530 I mean, you can see the in sixth-- they're awesome, 598 00:28:24,530 --> 00:28:25,780 these middle schoolers. 599 00:28:25,780 --> 00:28:28,220 They're so curious, and they really want to do stuff, 600 00:28:28,220 --> 00:28:30,720 and they're not, oh, I don't like science, 601 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,160 and oh, I never got that. 602 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,240 Or they're not already turned off in some ways, 603 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,340 they're very open to new ideas. 604 00:28:37,340 --> 00:28:39,750 What's hard, I think, is the abstract thinking. 605 00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:43,810 So when I tell, in this lab in particular, 606 00:28:43,810 --> 00:28:48,430 that's here, which is an experiment which 607 00:28:48,430 --> 00:28:51,730 brings DNA into a cell and turns the cell different colors. 608 00:28:51,730 --> 00:28:54,770 And the scientific question here is, does it 609 00:28:54,770 --> 00:28:56,460 matter what cell type you're using 610 00:28:56,460 --> 00:28:58,632 to get different levels of color expression? 611 00:28:58,632 --> 00:29:00,090 So like the chassis in which you're 612 00:29:00,090 --> 00:29:04,339 running this genetic program, what's the impact of that? 613 00:29:04,339 --> 00:29:06,130 It's a very important question in the field 614 00:29:06,130 --> 00:29:07,630 of biological engineering-- what cell 615 00:29:07,630 --> 00:29:09,588 are you going to choose to run your program in, 616 00:29:09,588 --> 00:29:10,680 and how do you choose it? 617 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,860 This is a typical transformation experiment 618 00:29:12,860 --> 00:29:14,630 that many schools do with their students, 619 00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:18,282 but usually schools are doing it just as a demonstration. 620 00:29:18,282 --> 00:29:20,240 What are you going to do with a middle schooler 621 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,130 when you say to them, well, when you add salt to the cell, 622 00:29:24,130 --> 00:29:27,410 the membrane gets porous, there are tiny holes in it, 623 00:29:27,410 --> 00:29:29,940 and the DNA can sneak through? 624 00:29:29,940 --> 00:29:32,910 They have to buy it. 625 00:29:32,910 --> 00:29:36,930 So some of the middle school teachers are doing acting out-- 626 00:29:36,930 --> 00:29:38,780 they have students stand in a circle 627 00:29:38,780 --> 00:29:41,240 and hold hands, and say, OK, now salt's added, 628 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:42,670 and have some of the kids let go. 629 00:29:42,670 --> 00:29:45,590 And so I think working with teachers 630 00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:49,060 who know their audience has been, for me, critically 631 00:29:49,060 --> 00:29:53,110 important in making this any kind of success that it is. 632 00:29:53,110 --> 00:29:55,180 And I continue to really value their advice. 633 00:29:55,180 --> 00:29:57,870 They know what works with their students and what doesn't. 634 00:29:57,870 --> 00:30:01,030 And these animations, some of them use them, 635 00:30:01,030 --> 00:30:04,560 but I think they mostly use them as homeworks, not as ways 636 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,670 to have students discover what they want to know 637 00:30:08,670 --> 00:30:09,982 about synthetic biology. 638 00:30:09,982 --> 00:30:12,440 AUDIENCE: That's going to be really important, because some 639 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,780 of you guys have authentically more 640 00:30:15,780 --> 00:30:17,660 concrete topics than others. 641 00:30:17,660 --> 00:30:21,347 Because ships are something that you can see. 642 00:30:21,347 --> 00:30:23,775 Computer programming is not. 643 00:30:23,775 --> 00:30:26,450 So you guys, some of you will have more abstract concepts, 644 00:30:26,450 --> 00:30:30,364 are going to have to really work hard to figure out, 645 00:30:30,364 --> 00:30:33,520 how do you make that concrete enough so 646 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:39,237 that a kid, who developmentally can't grasp an abstract concept 647 00:30:39,237 --> 00:30:42,725 as easily as someone a bit older-- how do you 648 00:30:42,725 --> 00:30:46,010 make that with metaphor, with acting, 649 00:30:46,010 --> 00:30:47,740 with all these different things? 650 00:30:47,740 --> 00:30:50,760 How do you use your communication tools 651 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,730 to make something that is maybe a reach 652 00:30:52,730 --> 00:30:55,360 outside of their developmental conceptual ability, 653 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,700 but is still accessible to them. 654 00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:00,450 AUDIENCE: And I will say it's that, as a case study 655 00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:01,700 it's very interesting. 656 00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:04,504 So when the MIT K12 Videos program started, 657 00:31:04,504 --> 00:31:06,332 it was originally allowing students 658 00:31:06,332 --> 00:31:10,250 to create full videos on their own without production. 659 00:31:10,250 --> 00:31:12,056 And I'll have to show you this slide, maybe 660 00:31:12,056 --> 00:31:14,610 after Natalie's talk, but when you 661 00:31:14,610 --> 00:31:17,530 let MIT students decide what they want to make, 662 00:31:17,530 --> 00:31:21,082 just let them do it free-reign, almost 70% of the videos 663 00:31:21,082 --> 00:31:22,510 were physics. 664 00:31:22,510 --> 00:31:25,480 It was alarming, the overwhelming majority. 665 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,451 And it's because physics is a very visual, very tangible 666 00:31:28,451 --> 00:31:28,950 topic. 667 00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:32,600 And when you go online, a lot of science videos and a few 668 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:33,350 are physics-based. 669 00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:36,822 Maybe one was on electrical engineering. 670 00:31:36,822 --> 00:31:39,780 And the electrical engineering ones were about circuits, 671 00:31:39,780 --> 00:31:41,259 so again, you could see the parts. 672 00:31:41,259 --> 00:31:43,231 When we started producing Science 673 00:31:43,231 --> 00:31:48,820 out Loud, the one video that went as popular-- in order 674 00:31:48,820 --> 00:31:53,070 of magnitude, at least-- and the view count [INAUDIBLE], 675 00:31:53,070 --> 00:31:54,320 that's a different discussion. 676 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:55,986 But the one that did the best on its own 677 00:31:55,986 --> 00:31:57,955 was the one that I marketed the least. 678 00:31:57,955 --> 00:32:00,440 I literally just posted it to YouTube, 679 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,925 and sent one Tweet about it. 680 00:32:02,925 --> 00:32:05,232 And it was one on how computers work. 681 00:32:05,232 --> 00:32:07,398 And I don't know if you've been in the Stata Center, 682 00:32:07,398 --> 00:32:09,910 but there's this machine called the [INAUDIBLE] 683 00:32:09,910 --> 00:32:13,920 which explains how switches count in binary, 684 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,420 as the fundamental component of the computer. 685 00:32:17,420 --> 00:32:20,400 And people loved that video, and it 686 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,872 showed this desire and this innate need 687 00:32:23,872 --> 00:32:29,034 for a way to visualize these super abstract concepts. 688 00:32:29,034 --> 00:32:31,992 And the fact that things that fulfill that need just 689 00:32:31,992 --> 00:32:33,690 don't exist right now. 690 00:32:33,690 --> 00:32:37,224 It's very hard to find a good video on programming. 691 00:32:37,224 --> 00:32:40,340 It's very hard to find a good video on biology, actually. 692 00:32:40,340 --> 00:32:43,973 Anything microscopic-- it's hard to create something that's 693 00:32:43,973 --> 00:32:47,192 visually engaging, to where you really justify 694 00:32:47,192 --> 00:32:49,612 making a video out of it. 695 00:32:49,612 --> 00:32:52,572 If you ask yourself, why would I make a video 696 00:32:52,572 --> 00:32:56,307 about microbiology, when it's so much more clear and so 697 00:32:56,307 --> 00:33:00,540 much more engaging to write a blog post about it? 698 00:33:00,540 --> 00:33:03,606 And so are the challenges that come along with it. 699 00:33:03,606 --> 00:33:05,022 And these are very good questions. 700 00:33:05,022 --> 00:33:06,438 They're very good mindsets to have 701 00:33:06,438 --> 00:33:09,010 when you approach those ideas. 702 00:33:09,010 --> 00:33:11,140 AUDIENCE: And Elizabeth had a really-- 703 00:33:11,140 --> 00:33:13,914 we had a really interesting conversation with those girls 704 00:33:13,914 --> 00:33:16,080 about what computer programming concept was actually 705 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,290 most interesting to them. 706 00:33:18,290 --> 00:33:20,846 What we realized was that all of these ideas 707 00:33:20,846 --> 00:33:23,194 were really big ideas. 708 00:33:23,194 --> 00:33:25,480 The binary is such a narrow topic, 709 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,664 that is allows you to flesh it out in great detail 710 00:33:27,664 --> 00:33:30,211 to show-- for the different types of learners 711 00:33:30,211 --> 00:33:31,760 who are out there-- different ways 712 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,980 to access that information. 713 00:33:33,980 --> 00:33:36,896 So the challenge is to pick a topic that's 714 00:33:36,896 --> 00:33:38,850 narrow enough, that in five minutes, 715 00:33:38,850 --> 00:33:43,462 you can really unpack it and pack it back up again. 716 00:33:43,462 --> 00:33:47,495 And really targeting our audience to figure out what do 717 00:33:47,495 --> 00:33:48,995 they know, and what don't they know, 718 00:33:48,995 --> 00:33:51,914 so that we're hitting that sweet spot where it's interesting, 719 00:33:51,914 --> 00:33:55,566 complicated, but not so complicated that I 720 00:33:55,566 --> 00:33:58,510 can't-- it's too much for me. 721 00:33:58,510 --> 00:34:02,010 AUDIENCE: Jaime's original pitch was almost six minutes long. 722 00:34:02,010 --> 00:34:05,630 And it was about how does a computer work? 723 00:34:05,630 --> 00:34:07,130 That was his original idea. 724 00:34:07,130 --> 00:34:07,630 And so it hit upon switches. 725 00:34:07,630 --> 00:34:09,974 It hit upon talking about binary and on semi-conductors 726 00:34:09,974 --> 00:34:12,460 and all these things. 727 00:34:12,460 --> 00:34:14,540 The switches part is literally less 728 00:34:14,540 --> 00:34:17,360 than a sentence of his pitch, and that 729 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,312 is what we ended up exploring for five minutes. 730 00:34:20,312 --> 00:34:23,216 We had so much to say about it. 731 00:34:23,216 --> 00:34:26,670 I do think the more focused a video is, 732 00:34:26,670 --> 00:34:28,670 it can be a lot more powerful. 733 00:34:28,670 --> 00:34:30,920 Somehow it makes it more dense. 734 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,120 Having worked with this age group myself, 735 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,070 I remember sixth grades learning basic biology-- 736 00:34:38,070 --> 00:34:40,276 just so you guys can orient yourselves. 737 00:34:40,276 --> 00:34:42,526 Seventh grade is learning basic structures, typically, 738 00:34:42,526 --> 00:34:45,412 like how to build a bridge, and how to keep 739 00:34:45,412 --> 00:34:47,969 something physically standing. 740 00:34:47,969 --> 00:34:51,260 Fifth grade is-- I'm trying to think backwards. 741 00:34:51,260 --> 00:34:54,440 Eighth is-- chemistry. 742 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,180 So just so that you guys have a sense of where 743 00:34:57,180 --> 00:35:00,750 they are in their learning, they're 744 00:35:00,750 --> 00:35:02,342 really sticking with physical things 745 00:35:02,342 --> 00:35:03,800 until they get a little bit bigger, 746 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,650 and can conceptualize chemistry. 747 00:35:05,650 --> 00:35:07,650 They're not even ready, yet, to think about that 748 00:35:07,650 --> 00:35:09,510 until about eighth grade-- is like 14. 749 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:17,760 NATALIE KULDELL: So maybe in the last just minute or so, 750 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,220 I'll show you another video that's not very good. 751 00:35:21,220 --> 00:35:23,710 But that does really speak to this question 752 00:35:23,710 --> 00:35:29,230 of how I'm trying to visualize something that is microscopic, 753 00:35:29,230 --> 00:35:33,850 and what we did with animation to try to accomplish that. 754 00:35:33,850 --> 00:35:36,340 And we won't look at all of this. 755 00:35:36,340 --> 00:35:38,076 But we'll get to the microscopic part. 756 00:35:38,076 --> 00:35:39,525 [VIDEO PLAYBACK] 757 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,470 -Dude, I like what you built there. 758 00:35:45,470 --> 00:35:47,680 What's it do? 759 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:48,860 -Oh, hi, Iz. 760 00:35:48,860 --> 00:35:52,270 This is a cool bug-- I made it using in an electronics 761 00:35:52,270 --> 00:35:54,370 building kit that Sally got me. 762 00:35:54,370 --> 00:35:56,300 She wanted to get me a genetics kit, 763 00:35:56,300 --> 00:35:57,770 but nothing's available yet. 764 00:35:57,770 --> 00:35:59,750 Eesh-- I don't get it. 765 00:35:59,750 --> 00:36:01,680 Why is it so easy to turn on and off 766 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,780 the lights for this electronic bug, but so hard to turn things 767 00:36:04,780 --> 00:36:06,640 on and off in biology? 768 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,160 -What do you mean, Dude? 769 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,650 The arsenic sensor that we built in bacteria 770 00:36:10,650 --> 00:36:12,730 a few years ago works pretty well. 771 00:36:12,730 --> 00:36:15,430 If there's arsenic in the water being tested, 772 00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:17,160 the sensor turns on. 773 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,310 And when arsenic isn't in the water, the sensor is off. 774 00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:23,590 And we built that sensor with natural biological parts. 775 00:36:23,590 --> 00:36:25,850 -So arsenic works like this switch? 776 00:36:25,850 --> 00:36:27,440 How is that possible? 777 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,280 How does the cell know? 778 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,420 -We used parts from the ArsR operon 779 00:36:31,420 --> 00:36:34,020 to program arsenic inducible expression. 780 00:36:34,020 --> 00:36:37,760 -Hold up, arsenic inducible expression? 781 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,140 What's that mean? 782 00:36:39,140 --> 00:36:42,280 All I know is that arsenic is toxic. 783 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,160 Don't the cells just die when you poison them? 784 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,390 -Cells have to come up with a bunch of clever ways 785 00:36:47,390 --> 00:36:48,520 to survive. 786 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,410 In the case of arsenic, the cells 787 00:36:50,410 --> 00:36:52,060 make a pump to get the poison out 788 00:36:52,060 --> 00:36:54,420 as soon as any comes inside the cell. 789 00:36:54,420 --> 00:36:57,310 -So asser is the pump. 790 00:36:57,310 --> 00:36:59,250 -Dude, be careful how you say it. 791 00:36:59,250 --> 00:37:01,860 The protein is called ArsR, since it's 792 00:37:01,860 --> 00:37:04,140 the arsenic repressor protein. 793 00:37:04,140 --> 00:37:07,340 And ArsR isn't the pump-- it just tells the cell 794 00:37:07,340 --> 00:37:09,030 when to make the pump. 795 00:37:09,030 --> 00:37:12,110 The operon has a promoter, which is where the cell's RNA 796 00:37:12,110 --> 00:37:14,590 polymerase binds. 797 00:37:14,590 --> 00:37:17,720 And at least three genes, ArsR gene, 798 00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:19,690 which encodes the repressor protein, 799 00:37:19,690 --> 00:37:22,840 and the ArsB gene which encodes the pump, 800 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,120 and the ArsC gene, which encodes an enzyme that 801 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,120 reduces arsenic in the cell, so it can be pumped out. 802 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:30,747 -Oh, OK, right. 803 00:37:30,747 --> 00:37:31,580 [END VIDEO PLAYBACK] 804 00:37:31,580 --> 00:37:32,820 NATALIE KULDELL: OK, so you get the idea. 805 00:37:32,820 --> 00:37:34,236 It just goes on from there, and it 806 00:37:34,236 --> 00:37:36,440 talks about how you build an inverter by moving 807 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,550 the repressor and the promoter in different spots, 808 00:37:38,550 --> 00:37:40,000 and manipulate the DNA. 809 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,682 But you can see with this one, you 810 00:37:41,682 --> 00:37:43,140 know there was some physical object 811 00:37:43,140 --> 00:37:45,180 that we were trying to use to illustrate what a switch does. 812 00:37:45,180 --> 00:37:47,120 But then when you get down to that DNA level, 813 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,870 and you're talking about proteins binding to DNA, 814 00:37:49,870 --> 00:37:53,140 and names of open reading frames and stuff, it's just deadly. 815 00:37:53,140 --> 00:37:56,550 I mean, I can't even watch it and I know this stuff. 816 00:37:56,550 --> 00:38:01,020 So I guess it's a real challenge-- it's a hard thing 817 00:38:01,020 --> 00:38:05,220 to think about making tangible, making evident, things 818 00:38:05,220 --> 00:38:08,440 that are not. 819 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,200 But I do think there's a great power through storytelling, 820 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,760 through animation, through video that you have, 821 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,660 and when it's done well it's really very, very 822 00:38:19,660 --> 00:38:22,746 effective, and very memorable, I think is the big part of it. 823 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:26,780 Are there any other quick questions? 824 00:38:26,780 --> 00:38:28,876 Yes? 825 00:38:28,876 --> 00:38:31,850 AUDIENCE: What is the criteria element of the idea is too big? 826 00:38:36,162 --> 00:38:41,930 When you're brainstorming, trying to find out ideas. 827 00:38:41,930 --> 00:38:45,930 Is there communication of when-- because I think, after today, 828 00:38:45,930 --> 00:38:48,060 we won't get to see the sixth graders anymore. 829 00:38:48,060 --> 00:38:50,940 AUDIENCE: Well, you have us and each other. 830 00:38:50,940 --> 00:38:52,940 AUDIENCE: I think the litmus test 831 00:38:52,940 --> 00:38:55,993 that I used when producing Science Out Loud-- I didn't 832 00:38:55,993 --> 00:38:58,951 mention this yesterday, but it was probably the first thing 833 00:38:58,951 --> 00:38:59,937 I should've said. 834 00:38:59,937 --> 00:39:02,895 Because there are no best practices established 835 00:39:02,895 --> 00:39:05,853 in this field, take everything that we 836 00:39:05,853 --> 00:39:11,290 present to you in class with a grain of salt. And [INAUDIBLE]. 837 00:39:11,290 --> 00:39:15,540 So what I've found with distilling 838 00:39:15,540 --> 00:39:19,410 a big idea is that when I'm scripting with a student, 839 00:39:19,410 --> 00:39:22,930 and we start to go down a rabbit hole, so we're saying, 840 00:39:22,930 --> 00:39:24,430 well what is a computer made out of? 841 00:39:24,430 --> 00:39:26,430 Well, I have to talk about a switch. 842 00:39:26,430 --> 00:39:27,930 Then I have to talk about binary. 843 00:39:27,930 --> 00:39:29,280 Then I have to do this. 844 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,155 And we have somehow found ourselves 845 00:39:31,155 --> 00:39:33,446 down a rabbit hole that is tangential to the core topic 846 00:39:33,446 --> 00:39:35,030 at hand. 847 00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:37,466 That's always been an indication for me 848 00:39:37,466 --> 00:39:39,800 that the core topic is too big. 849 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,020 And you examine the branches that 850 00:39:42,020 --> 00:39:44,520 are possible from that core topic, 851 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:49,492 and start looking at, well, what can I do from a branch, itself. 852 00:39:49,492 --> 00:39:51,476 We can talk about this more-- because I 853 00:39:51,476 --> 00:39:52,650 know Natalie has to leave. 854 00:39:52,650 --> 00:39:54,608 Does anyone have any final questions for her? 855 00:39:54,608 --> 00:39:57,497 Her email address is on the syllabus. 856 00:39:57,497 --> 00:39:59,080 NATALIE KULDELL: I'd be happy to talk. 857 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,080 AUDIENCE: Yeah, I was curious, I guess 858 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,256 you worked with the sixth grade, and many different teachers. 859 00:40:05,256 --> 00:40:09,780 Are they conflicting advice that is being given you? 860 00:40:09,780 --> 00:40:11,230 NATALIE KULDELL: Yes, but I think 861 00:40:11,230 --> 00:40:15,970 that's because teachers teach in many different settings. 862 00:40:15,970 --> 00:40:19,790 And so what is true in one setting is false in another. 863 00:40:19,790 --> 00:40:22,440 There are some schools that won't show YouTube, 864 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,060 that have that site blocked. 865 00:40:24,060 --> 00:40:27,210 There are other teachers that teach every day with YouTube. 866 00:40:27,210 --> 00:40:32,210 So it's just every teaching setting is really-- 867 00:40:32,210 --> 00:40:36,330 there's a wide range of-- 868 00:40:36,330 --> 00:40:39,655 AUDIENCE: Somehow you never get to make a decision-- 869 00:40:39,655 --> 00:40:41,030 AUDIENCE: Standards are the same. 870 00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:43,845 NATALIE KULDELL: Yes, right, so what they have to reach. 871 00:40:43,845 --> 00:40:46,219 AUDIENCE: It may be different where you are, but at least 872 00:40:46,219 --> 00:40:50,160 here, in public settings, and in some private settings, 873 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,714 the teachers have uniform goals that they 874 00:40:53,714 --> 00:40:57,200 each have to achieve in each academic year for each student. 875 00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,480 And it's a national standard in public schools 876 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:04,180 that all sixth graders must do these big topics. 877 00:41:04,180 --> 00:41:06,330 And so within that, how to teach those, 878 00:41:06,330 --> 00:41:07,780 that's the common thread in that. 879 00:41:07,780 --> 00:41:08,946 NATALIE KULDELL: Yes, right. 880 00:41:08,946 --> 00:41:11,420 But in terms of using animation-- so the question 881 00:41:11,420 --> 00:41:14,840 I thought was more related to the tone of the video 882 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,180 that you're making, and that is hard, 883 00:41:18,180 --> 00:41:20,382 because teachers have very different students, 884 00:41:20,382 --> 00:41:22,840 and teachers are very different people, one from the other. 885 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,330 Some are very comfortable teaching 886 00:41:24,330 --> 00:41:26,730 with animated characters, some think that it 887 00:41:26,730 --> 00:41:28,020 undermines their authority. 888 00:41:28,020 --> 00:41:29,740 And I've heard both. 889 00:41:29,740 --> 00:41:33,570 So it really-- for better or worse, 890 00:41:33,570 --> 00:41:35,829 I tend to just make a decision and go with it. 891 00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:37,870 This goes back to if I knew then what I know now. 892 00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:46,170 I think small, smart steps is really the only way 893 00:41:46,170 --> 00:41:48,154 to figure this out. 894 00:41:48,154 --> 00:41:50,070 Anyway, and with that, I really do have to go. 895 00:41:50,070 --> 00:41:51,694 And I'm sorry, but I'd be happy to talk 896 00:41:51,694 --> 00:41:54,450 with you guys offline, OK? 897 00:41:54,450 --> 00:41:55,360 Thank you. 898 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:56,910 AUDIENCE: Thanks.