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ELIZABETH CHOE:
Assessment for this class

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was probably the hardest
thing for me, at least.

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How to assign a fair
grade to students, because

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at the end of the day,
they're a grade for this.

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And it wasn't going to be
an A for effort type thing.

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It was actually really
hard because anything

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that requires creative effort--
I talked to you about this

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for a long time-- you
don't want to crap

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on people's creative efforts,
even if it's just not

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very good.

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CHRIS BOEBEL: It's very hard.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: Jamie and
I talked a lot about this.

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But initially, the rubric was
very plastic elements based.

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Like, is this well lit,
can you hear the audio OK?

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And we just kind of scrapped
that, and really went

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with-- there were four sort
of principles to the class

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that I talked about on the
first day, which was spark,

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does it foster curiosity,
and that was like a big theme

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that went through every
single assignment,

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and how it manifested change
assignment to assignment.

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You can see on the rubric.

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Kill your darlings.

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Like, is it concise enough.

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There are a couple others.

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So that's how we
approached grading.

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And we assigned them
raw numerical scores,

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and we didn't have like, an
A is 20, a B is 10, or 15.

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It was in progress was from 0
to 5, and steps moving forward

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was like five to 10, and then
mastery was like 10 to 15,

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for instance.

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So they would get
numerical grade feedback.

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We gave a lot of weight
to their daily reflections

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so that not everyone in the
class would end up with a C.

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GEORGE ZAIDAN: I
have a question.

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Do you think grading should
have been A for effort?

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Because in real life, and
I didn't tell this to you

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when we were planning the
course, and I'm sorry.

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But in real life, it
almost is A for effort.

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If I show up to do voice over
and I'm late and I'm sloppy,

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and I don't do a
very good job, I'm

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not going to get hired again.

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And part of that is my technical
ability to do voice over.

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And part of it is showing
up 15 minutes early,

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being professional,
all that sort

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of stuff, which does kind
of seem like A for effort.

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I don't know.

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What do you think?

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CHRIS BOEBEL: Well.

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So I've had to think
about this a lot

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for the course I teach at MIT.

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And it's a huge,
huge issue because,

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so who should get
the better grade?

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The person who has a huge
amount of talent and experience

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as a filmmaker and
video maker, sluffs it,

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just like lays back
throughout the whole course,

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but does a really
nice piece at the end.

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Or the person who never
has done it before,

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doesn't necessarily
have a whole lot

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on the ball, when it
comes to media production,

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but just works and works
and works and comes out

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with something that's
kind of mediocre.

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Just because by the nature of
it having never done it before.

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That's really the issue.

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When you're dealing
with non-professionals--

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because I completely
agree with him,

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it's the Woody
Allen thing right?

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Like most of life is showing up.

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And it's totally true.

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But when you're dealing with
this huge, huge learning curve,

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it becomes very, very tricky.

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So what we do, we don't
do quite A for effort.

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But we do kind of allow an out
if your final project, which

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is a big part of your grade,
goes completely haywire

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and just falls apart
on you, you can

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write a fairly
substantial paper that

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describes what your intents
were or what your thought

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process was, what
went wrong, why

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it went wrong, what you
would have done differently.

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And so, essentially, you do have
a way supplementing or making

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up for this innate
problem you had,

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which was that you didn't know
what the hell you we're doing.

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Which is a problem.

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JOSHUA GUNN: It's
fairy innate for me.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: For all of us.

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Well, two of the course
values were challenge,

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and a lot of that
manifested in the rubric

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in the final project and
the graded assignments,

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as is their improvement
from the previous iteration?

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Is this person going outside
of their comfort zone?

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And then thoughtfulness.

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Can you tell that this
person has integrated

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some of the things we talked
about in class, whether it's

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through their blog posts,
or just like office hour

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reflections, things like that.

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So that was built
into the final grades,

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but then I would also say that
the graded sort of quality

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projects, and the
daily reflections

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were weighted pretty
equally so that if you

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had a student, which we
did, who had the skills,

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but didn't do the daily
blogs, their grade would

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suffer a little bit more.

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Just as much as someone
who did the daily blogs,

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and just could not
host for instance.

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In the end it worked out
by doing it that way.

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All the students who
I thought deserved

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great grades, because I knew
they worked really hard,

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got good grades.

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And all the students who
were very technically skilled

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still got decent
grades, but it wasn't

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like they got 100 or anything.

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It's always a tough
challenge, though.

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GEORGE ZAIDAN: My
math teacher used

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to say-- we'd be like, how are
you going to grade this test.

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He'd be like, well I'm going to
blindfold myself, turn around

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and throw darts behind my back.

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And we were like, good.

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That's good.

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CHRIS BOEBEL: I
just which I could

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have written a paper in
chemistry class in college

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to make up for the--

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GEORGE ZAIDAN: My
experiment went south.

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And here's what happened.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: It's hard
because MIT students,

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they want to know what
do I need to do to--

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CHRIS BOEBEL: Exactly.

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People are very focused on
achievement and doing well.

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ELIZABETH CHOE:
Which is why I was

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very conscious of by creating as
specific of a rubric as I can.

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JOSHUA GUNN: That
makes lot of sense,

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especially as you said before,
because this is a form of art,

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and there is no right or
wrong answer, so how do you--

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ELIZABETH CHOE: But
you can tell someone,

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look you didn't change
anything from your first draft.

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So you're going to get docked
for points on challenge,

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as the rubric says.

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Or you straight up didn't
do a blog reflection

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so you're getting a
zero on that section.

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But at least I do
think that there

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has to be something
tangible to go back

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to that you can't just sort
of arbitrarily assign a grade.

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I will say that, at
the end of the day,

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an assessment, a
great assessment,

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should be a reflection.

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Or should be there to
help students improve.

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And I do think that the value
in assessment and feedback

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came from just sort of one
on one, when you all worked

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with the students directly.

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And that's something that's not
captured on the OpenCourseWare

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class.

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But I would stay with
Jamie and our TA Siri,

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for at least two hours
every day after class,

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just talking to students.

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And you work with them.

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And when you and John
came to do the workshop,

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you'd just have direct
interaction with the students.

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I really think that's where
the most value came from.

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I don't know how you
all feel about that.

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CHRIS BOEBEL: I thought that
workshop was great, by the way.

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I didn't get a chance to
tell you, it was really nice.

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JOSHUA GUNN: I mean,
I thought it was just

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great to interact
with the students.

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I mean I wasn't immediately
sure how engaged they were,

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but I had some sense of
it when I would actually

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just sort of sit down with
them and they would directly

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ask me questions and
there was that sort

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of that direct engagement.

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And I guess one would
question how this course could

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be done electronically, or via
some kind of distance learning,

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or that kind of thing.

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Because that seemed
invaluable to me.

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That kind of personal contact.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: If you
are teacher in Missouri,

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for instance, how can you teach
this course without a Chris,

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without a George,
and without a Josh.

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GEORGE ZAIDAN: I mean, there
are versions of us in Missouri.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: There are.

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JOSHUA GUNN: I have an
alter ego in every state.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: You
said something nice

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about my home state.

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It's on camera, too.

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But really, again, you can
watch the OpenCourseWare stuff

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to get a sense of just, I mean,
they're just fundamental facts,

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I guess, that you
should become aware of.

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But I gave a midpoint
survey to the students

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of what lectures have
you found most helpful,

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and they were all
like, all of them.

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Like, Chris' was really helpful
because I got his perspective

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as a filmmaker, like as
someone who was, and still is,

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in the industry.

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And then working with Planet
Nutshell, they were like,

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oh I had no idea
how to storyboard.

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And it was waving more
helpful than just watching

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a video of someone do it.

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We were actually
interacting with them.

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Your hosting workshop, like how
do you give hosting feedback

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not in real time, not live.

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I don't know.

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JOSHUA GUNN: I just remember
sitting down with a couple

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students and I think
students were running

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their ideas by both of us.

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Maybe me individually,
and John, just

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giving sort of direct
creative feedback.

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Well, I think that
could work, but have you

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thought about doing this?

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And then that would spur
them to further sort

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of creative thinking.

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That kind of interaction,
that relationship,

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seemed invaluable.

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CHRIS BOEBEL: And the
one on one interaction.

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I've thought about that too.

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I mean maybe the equivalent of
crowd sourcing or something.

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But most of the valuable
experiences I had as a student,

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and that I think I've had
with students as a teacher,

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are really not even in the
classroom, but one on one.

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JOSHUA GUNN: Yeah, I mean, most
of the experiences I remember

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most powerfully are
being at office hours

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and having a teacher asks
me like, so do you really

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think you're going to
be an English major?

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CHRIS BOEBEL: And particularly
in media or video,

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it's like you have this
work, it's a piece of crap,

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and someone is going to sit
there and help you turn it

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into something else.

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And just to learn what
can be done to a script,

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to something that's been
shot and not edited the way

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it could be.

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It's a really
powerful experience.

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JOSHUA GUNN: Yeah definitely.

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And so I wonder, sorry
to interrupt you, I just

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I just wonder if the balance--
I don't have a complete picture

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of how the course was balanced,
because I wasn't there

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the whole time, but
I wonder if there

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could be more opportunity
for that kind of a one on one

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interaction.

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CHRIS BOEBEL: It's very short.

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That's the challenge.

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JOSHUA GUNN: Yeah.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: Yeah.

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CHRIS BOEBEL: It's
such a short class.

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JOSHUA GUNN: Like some kind
of critique or workshop

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that maybe we all attended
and gave thoughts on?

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GEORGE ZAIDAN: And
for the students

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who worked with us in production
week, that was a lot of one

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on one.

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A lot of one on one, or like,
three on one, in that case.

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But there again, for
production week it

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was like you don't spend two
hours like, here here's why

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your hosting was not optimal.

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You just tell them what
to do to fix it quickly

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so you can get the next shot.

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But that still is
valuable because you still

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see how a professional does it.

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You're there and
you're doing it.

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You're not just
sitting there watching.

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Without you, the
show doesn't run.

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Without the student,
the show doesn't run.

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So they have to do it.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: A
couple of the students

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who did Science Out
Loud, they waited

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to write their final blog
reflection until after they

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shot.

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So they were like, I wanted to
wait to see how different it

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would be from the class.

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And even in that one
day, I learned so much.

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Like, more than I did in
the two weeks of the class.

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Just like being in that
production setting.

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Sorry go ahead.

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GEORGE ZAIDAN: That was it.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: Something
I wanted to mention,

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again, this kind of
thing isn't scalable.

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We can't spend one on one
time with 20 students.

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It was manageable
because there were

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only seven or eight of them at
any given time, thank goodness.

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Initially were like, yeah
we're going to blow it up,

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make it like 24 students.

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Oh my gosh, no.

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It was a struggle to keep
up even though our teaching

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team is huge, just because it
is such an intensive process

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to work with them one on one.

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But what I did want to make use
of their peer-to-peer learning

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and support.

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And somehow, I
don't know exactly

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know how this got
fostered, but we really

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had a nice class environment.

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The students were very
supportive of each other,

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which was really
nice, maybe because it

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was such a small class.

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But during the second week,
they would go off in groups

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to shoot each other, and
they would give advice

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to each other.

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Which was awesome.

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I would overhear are some
really great directorial advice,

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but I would also overhear some
advice that would be like, no.

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Don't make them have
that intonation.

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I wouldn't say
anything because I

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think it's important for
their learning experience.

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But that's what
I mean by there's

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only so much you
can do with people

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in the same sort of learning
sphere teaching each other.

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JOSHUA GUNN: It's
a very short-- I

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mean so much of what
this class is like,

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is characterized by the
fact that it's so short.

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Because the cohort
thing is so important.

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And, I mean, as someone
who, I'll confess,

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went to art school.

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I know, sorry MIT people.

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So I went to NYU, the graduate
film program, the three year

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program.

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So the first year
of that program,

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is kind of like the first couple
of lectures in your class.

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It's all class based, you
feel like your head is

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exploding with all this stuff.

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And you're hanging on your
professor's every word,

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and it's like kind
of transformation.

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After that, it's kind of
pointless to go to class.

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It doesn't really matter
what happens in the class.

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It's all about the
cohort, and it's

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all about what you
do outside of class,

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and the help and support
you give each other as you

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make these iterative projects.

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So it kind of takes
over and becomes

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the thing, the only thing.

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The relationship of the
students with each other,

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critiquing each
other's work, working

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on each others projects.

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The rest of it, once
you kind of have

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the basics, the basic
conceptual framework--

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GEORGE ZAIDAN: It's
like learn by doing.

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CHRIS BOEBEL: Yeah, it's all
learn by doing after that.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: The problem
is because it's a two

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week, or three week, class.

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Or even a semester,
or even a year.

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At MIT, I mean, these students
are nowhere near experts.

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Not saying that we are,
right, there's only so much

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that they can be aware
of with each other,

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that it was a weird
balance to strike.