1
00:00:04,269 --> 00:00:06,060
ELIZABETH CHOE: We were
talking about like,

2
00:00:06,060 --> 00:00:09,550
what is digital media
literacy exactly, because we

3
00:00:09,550 --> 00:00:10,990
talked about this a lot.

4
00:00:10,990 --> 00:00:14,710
And I think what it really is,
is not so much being proficient

5
00:00:14,710 --> 00:00:17,370
in scripting and
filming and editing,

6
00:00:17,370 --> 00:00:21,250
it's just the self awareness
to know what you're good at,

7
00:00:21,250 --> 00:00:23,820
and what you're not good at.

8
00:00:23,820 --> 00:00:26,950
And just the
appreciation for what

9
00:00:26,950 --> 00:00:29,020
goes into things,
and the knowledge

10
00:00:29,020 --> 00:00:32,920
of who to tap into to
help you create a project

11
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,140
or help you
communicate something.

12
00:00:35,140 --> 00:00:35,852
Go ahead.

13
00:00:35,852 --> 00:00:37,310
JOSHUA GUNN: I just
have a question

14
00:00:37,310 --> 00:00:39,460
because I'm not plugged
into the MIT community,

15
00:00:39,460 --> 00:00:44,730
or even into the scientific
community, for that matter.

16
00:00:44,730 --> 00:00:49,060
But is there a culture
of sort of individuality

17
00:00:49,060 --> 00:00:55,220
wherein this notion that
basically, my intellectual work

18
00:00:55,220 --> 00:00:58,850
is to be done sort of in a
silo, versus the kind of,

19
00:00:58,850 --> 00:01:00,900
like, I know I'm
not good at this,

20
00:01:00,900 --> 00:01:03,990
so I need to build a
team where we can build.

21
00:01:03,990 --> 00:01:08,470
GEORGE ZAIDAN: At MIT, it's
pretty interdisciplinary.

22
00:01:08,470 --> 00:01:12,780
What I would say, is
not siloed, but there's

23
00:01:12,780 --> 00:01:18,880
an ingrained culture of is
this idea that real science--

24
00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,470
and I'm doing it now by saying
real science-- that science

25
00:01:22,470 --> 00:01:26,132
and engineering is work, and
communication is not work.

26
00:01:26,132 --> 00:01:27,090
JOSHUA GUNN: Oh, I see.

27
00:01:27,090 --> 00:01:28,590
ELIZABETH CHOE: Or even
that it a separate thing.

28
00:01:28,590 --> 00:01:28,990
JOSHUA GUNN: Yeah.

29
00:01:28,990 --> 00:01:29,650
GEORGE ZAIDAN: Yeah.

30
00:01:29,650 --> 00:01:31,774
CHRIS BOEBELThat's a pretty
good way of putting it.

31
00:01:31,774 --> 00:01:35,560
GEORGE ZAIDAN: So that's-- it's
not that people are like siloed

32
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:41,280
within themselves, it's that
communicators don't have street

33
00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:42,626
cred with scientists, period.

34
00:01:42,626 --> 00:01:44,500
CHRIS BOEBEL: And that
part will just happen,

35
00:01:44,500 --> 00:01:45,820
it will take care of itself.

36
00:01:45,820 --> 00:01:47,650
I'm not going to worry
about it too much.

37
00:01:47,650 --> 00:01:49,170
JOSHUA GUNN: I
see, so that sounds

38
00:01:49,170 --> 00:01:51,170
like the real meat
of what you guys are

39
00:01:51,170 --> 00:01:53,861
trying to work on, in a way.

40
00:01:53,861 --> 00:01:55,110
ELIZABETH CHOE: Yeah, I guess.

41
00:01:55,110 --> 00:01:59,020
I mean it's interesting because
I gave a survey to the students

42
00:01:59,020 --> 00:02:02,940
at the end of the class,
and they were all like,

43
00:02:02,940 --> 00:02:05,270
I probably wouldn't make
another video again.

44
00:02:05,270 --> 00:02:08,009
A couple of them said they
would, but most of them

45
00:02:08,009 --> 00:02:10,539
are like, I probably
won't make a video,

46
00:02:10,539 --> 00:02:13,270
but, I have so much more
appreciation for what

47
00:02:13,270 --> 00:02:14,170
goes into it.

48
00:02:14,170 --> 00:02:16,010
Now I can't watch a
movie without thinking

49
00:02:16,010 --> 00:02:17,770
about how much,
you know, how much

50
00:02:17,770 --> 00:02:21,570
work it took to just
light the scene.

51
00:02:21,570 --> 00:02:23,920
So even just having
the appreciation

52
00:02:23,920 --> 00:02:26,500
for what goes into it,
I think, is a big step.

53
00:02:26,500 --> 00:02:28,710
But, again, with the
whole literacy thing,

54
00:02:28,710 --> 00:02:34,500
just the awareness of how
important these skills are.

55
00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:36,000
Because, like you
said, I mean, it's

56
00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:40,040
just crazy that we think
of them as separate things.

57
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,280
There's science and
there's communication,

58
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,480
and you're trained
separately on these things,

59
00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,140
if you happen to be a
science communicator.

60
00:02:48,140 --> 00:02:49,806
CHRIS BOEBEL: One of
things that I think

61
00:02:49,806 --> 00:02:53,430
is really interesting about
media is that video or media,

62
00:02:53,430 --> 00:02:57,715
films, they're really
interesting in that when

63
00:02:57,715 --> 00:02:59,700
they're well made,
they're so accessible.

64
00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:03,620
They're so immediately
graspable by those of us

65
00:03:03,620 --> 00:03:05,670
in the last 100
years who's really

66
00:03:05,670 --> 00:03:09,650
literate at unpacking video
and understanding the medium.

67
00:03:09,650 --> 00:03:12,000
They're so kind of
intuitively open

68
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,630
that people who don't have
any appreciation or awareness

69
00:03:15,630 --> 00:03:17,770
of how they're made
assume that there isn't

70
00:03:17,770 --> 00:03:20,250
any kind of effort behind them.

71
00:03:20,250 --> 00:03:21,730
That they just kind of happen.

72
00:03:21,730 --> 00:03:24,350
And I can remember as a
kid kind of thinking that.

73
00:03:24,350 --> 00:03:26,040
Never really
thinking about movies

74
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,380
and how they were made until, I
was probably, God, in college.

75
00:03:29,380 --> 00:03:31,280
I just kind of assumed
that they just kind of

76
00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:32,080
happened out there.

77
00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,120
JOSHUA GUNN: Our clients
think you just hit a button.

78
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:35,036
CHRIS BOEBEL: Exactly.

79
00:03:35,036 --> 00:03:36,330
Yeah, exactly.

80
00:03:36,330 --> 00:03:39,760
And that's because if things
are well made, it's like,

81
00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,304
didn't that just
always exist that way?

82
00:03:42,304 --> 00:03:44,220
You mean somebody actually
had to create that?

83
00:03:44,220 --> 00:03:46,150
It seems so natural.

84
00:03:46,150 --> 00:03:48,080
And I think that
one of the things,

85
00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,029
a key of media literacy,
is breaking that myth.

86
00:03:51,029 --> 00:03:51,820
JOSHUA GUNN: Right.

87
00:03:51,820 --> 00:03:56,402
Or, gasp, it would cost
money to hire people.

88
00:03:56,402 --> 00:03:57,610
GEORGE ZAIDAN: And take time.

89
00:03:57,610 --> 00:04:00,690
JOSHUA GUNN: You would have
to hire professionals to do it

90
00:04:00,690 --> 00:04:02,600
that are trained and pay them.

91
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,100
ELIZABETH CHOE: So
the biggest thing

92
00:04:04,100 --> 00:04:07,230
in teaching this
literacy, though, I think,

93
00:04:07,230 --> 00:04:10,380
is making them go through
the experience themselves.

94
00:04:10,380 --> 00:04:13,530
Because it's one thing if
you watch like a series of

95
00:04:13,530 --> 00:04:14,340
lectures.

96
00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:17,160
Like it's one thing if you
watch this on OpenCourseWare,

97
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,050
and you can take
the notes on, like,

98
00:04:20,050 --> 00:04:24,990
this is good framing if
you use the thirds rule.

99
00:04:24,990 --> 00:04:26,850
Write a script like
you would say it.

100
00:04:26,850 --> 00:04:30,180
We go through all these sort
of tangible, take home points.

101
00:04:30,180 --> 00:04:32,940
These sort of plastic
elements, like you mentioned.

102
00:04:32,940 --> 00:04:35,820
But I don't think
you'll have the same,

103
00:04:35,820 --> 00:04:41,030
you won't draw the same value
from it as if you actually

104
00:04:41,030 --> 00:04:43,000
go through and try
to do the projects

105
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,810
that these students did.

106
00:04:44,810 --> 00:04:50,490
And that's a big issue, I think,
especially in media teaching.

107
00:04:50,490 --> 00:04:53,130
That it's easy to
first establish

108
00:04:53,130 --> 00:04:55,320
a sort of theoretical
principles.

109
00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,900
Like, this is sort of
what makes a good story.

110
00:04:59,900 --> 00:05:02,180
And then it's another
thing to actually give

111
00:05:02,180 --> 00:05:04,910
hard, tangible
examples to students.

112
00:05:04,910 --> 00:05:06,610
Like, look at this script.

113
00:05:06,610 --> 00:05:10,680
They're able to point out
issues in the scripts.

114
00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,610
They were able to critique
them, but then it's

115
00:05:12,610 --> 00:05:14,734
a whole other step for them
to be able to integrate

116
00:05:14,734 --> 00:05:17,020
it themselves into a script.

117
00:05:17,020 --> 00:05:19,542
So you'd have a student who
understood the principles,

118
00:05:19,542 --> 00:05:21,250
they took the notes,
they could reiterate

119
00:05:21,250 --> 00:05:22,810
everything you said to them.

120
00:05:22,810 --> 00:05:25,000
They were able to look at
the examples you gave them

121
00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,990
and say, oh you know,
this is unclear here,

122
00:05:27,990 --> 00:05:29,450
this is awkward wording.

123
00:05:29,450 --> 00:05:32,960
And then they would write the
script, and you'd be like,

124
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,480
there's this disconnect
to the third step.

125
00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,040
And it wasn't until
they tried it,

126
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,630
and then we were able to
critique them directly

127
00:05:40,630 --> 00:05:44,280
that they were able to come
to this final self awareness

128
00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:45,830
conclusion.