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ELIZABETH CHOE: So hi,
I'm Elizabeth Choe.

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By day, I run the
MIT K-12 videos

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program in the Office of
Digital Learning at MIT.

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And I was the lead
instructor/creator 20.219.

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JOSHUA GUNN: Hi,
I'm Joshua Gunn,

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and I'm the co-founder of
Planet Nutshell a Cambridge,

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Massachusetts, based
animation studio.

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And my role in the
course was simply

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to do a workshop
on storyboarding,

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as well as a little
instruction on animation

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in the context of producing
educational media.

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GEORGE ZAIDAN: My
name is George Zaidan

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I am a freelance science video
host and writer and producer.

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And for 20.219 I did a workshop
on writing and hosting.

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CHRIS BOEBEL: I'm Chris Boebel.

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I'm media development director
for MIT's Office of Digital

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Learning and for the course I
was basically a guest lecturer.

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I came in for a day or two to
talk about visual storytelling.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: So the way
this class stated, I would say,

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is that George
and I were working

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on Science Out Loud, which is
this educational web series

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that's hosted by MIT students.

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And it sort of noticed that
there was this big need

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to help students not only know
how to articulate themselves

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on camera-- articulate
well on camera--

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but just understand
digital media in general.

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And that's a conversation
that Chris and I

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have had since I was your
student in undergrad basically.

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CHRIS BOEBEL: Not
that many years ago.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: So,
actually not really.

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Yeah, but with Science Out
Loud we would do these,

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like, crash courses on scripting
and writing these short videos,

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but at the end of the day like
we would still intervene quite

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a bit to make the videos good.

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And at the end of
the day, the priority

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was on making a great
video, and not necessarily

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on the students'
learning experience.

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So, I mean, this
was a space for them

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to develop these skills
sort of lower states,

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and not have to
worry about creating

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something that was going to
be on a web series at the end.

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GEORGE ZAIDAN: The class was
supposed to be lower stakes.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: Yeah.

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GEORGE ZAIDAN: Because
we had-- Science Out Loud

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was a lot of pressure.

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We were shooting long days.

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If they felt like they
didn't get to take right,

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they were nervous.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: Or,
if the script just

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wasn't good by the time we had
to shoot, we would just fix it.

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CHRIS BOEBEL: And one of
things you and I've talked

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about a ton over the
last couple of years

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is that tension between creating
a consistently good product

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and teaching.

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Because if you're in a
teaching environment,

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you're going to fail over
and over and over again,

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which does not lead to a
particularly, consistently good

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product, which is
what you're going

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for with Science Out Loud.

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So this class is
kind of a way, I

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think, to find a space in
between where you can actually

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have a little bit of a chance
to experiment and learn by doing

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and fail, bluntly.

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But also not actually
impact your show, which

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needs to be consistently good.

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JOSHUA GUNN: Was
there any desire

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to sort to create an
awareness for students

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of other sort of creative
opportunities outside

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of the science and math,
or their current studies?

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I mean, I think it's a really
interesting way this course is

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sort of offered to students
who are engaged in stuff that's

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really quite different.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: I mean,
interesting because MIT

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has this communication
requirement,

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but it's not really taken
seriously by students,

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because it's like, I need to
take a class where I'm required

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to write 20 pages of paper.

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And you and I were
talking about one

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at the bioengineering
communication fellows,

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and he said something like, I'm
doing this program because I

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don't see a difference
between science and science

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communication.

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But I think like that
was inadvertently

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was what this class is about.

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Because it's not really about
how to host a science show,

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or how to write a
five minute script.

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I don't care if they never
make a five minute video again,

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but hopefully the skills that
they learned and picked up

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were things that
they need to have,

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regardless of what
they end up going to.

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Just the ability to articulate
passionately and clearly

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some very technical
topics is not something

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you get trained
on enough at MIT.

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CHRIS BOEBEL: I think I
think the MIT communication

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requirement is an
interesting situation, too,

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because it is all focused on
writing, and writing papers,

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not even just writing
scripts, writing papers.

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And, for instance,
the course that I

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teach that you
took, we initially

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had trouble getting it listed
as fulfilling the communication

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requirement, even though
students consistently said,

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well this is all this course
is about, communication.

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Because the writing requirement
was just a little bit

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shy of the 20 page, or
whatever it is, requirement.

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So there's a whole other
kind of communication,

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which is, as you say,
clear conceptualization,

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visualization,
organization, which

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is related to
writing, and writing

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kind of traditional
papers, but it's in 2015.

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It's not just writing
journal papers,

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or kind of really more
traditional pieces of text.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: Actually,
before I put the class together,

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the first thing I did was just
survey all of the medial making

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classes on campus.

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So anything related
to video production

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or like script production.

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And there are actually a
lot of classes on campus

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that are about how do you
edit, how do you produce video?

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But there wasn't one on
really hosting, actually.

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And being on camera, and
being comfortable talking

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in front of people
was something that

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we found to be very
important through Science

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Out Loud and something
that most students were

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the most comfortable
with, would you say?

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GEORGE ZAIDAN: Yeah I
mean they didn't even

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know they were
uncomfortable with it.

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They'd just be like, oh yeah,
no problem, I'll just talk,

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and then they get in front of
a camera and it's like Jack

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Donaghy in that
episode of 30 Rock,

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where he can't-- you know.

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You don't understand why
your body doesn't quite

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work the way you thought it was,
or your voice is a little too

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high and you get nervous,
and then you screw up,

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and then you screw up again.

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And then if they
get and then they

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realize how hard it actually is
to stand in front of a camera

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and say things.

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So yeah.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: It's
not just about standing

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in front of a camera, though.

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JOSHUA GUNN: Any
audience, right?

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ELIZABETH CHOE: I
feel like I wanted

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them to learn to be
self aware of who they

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were as a presenter, you know.

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Like, we weren't trying to
make them become a persona.

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Like we called it becoming
the next Bill Nye,

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but it really wasn't.

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That was like the
first thing I talked

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about was that
we're not actually

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turning you into Bill Nye.

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That wherever you go,
whether it's a job interview,

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or you're giving a Ted Talk or
formal presentation, I mean,

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you need all these
skills and you

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can't assume some sort
of platonic personality

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When you do these things.

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GEORGE ZAIDAN: It's not acting,
it's just being themselves.

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ELIZABETH CHOE: But
just a clear, polished,

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version of yourself.

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CHRIS BOEBEL: Kind of close
to what the real thing is,

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but maybe not
entirely there yet.

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JOSHUA GUNN: Awareness
of an audience.