1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,470 The following content is provided under a Creative 2 00:00:02,470 --> 00:00:03,880 Commons license. 3 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,920 Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare continue to 4 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,570 offer high quality educational resources for free. 5 00:00:10,570 --> 00:00:13,470 To make a donation, or view additional materials from 6 00:00:13,470 --> 00:00:17,875 hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare at 7 00:00:17,875 --> 00:00:20,531 ocw.mit.edu. 8 00:00:20,531 --> 00:00:24,622 PROFESSOR: We'll start with a little bit of recap from two 9 00:00:24,622 --> 00:00:26,914 Fridays ago. 10 00:00:26,914 --> 00:00:31,310 But just a reminder of things to keep in mind while you guys 11 00:00:31,310 --> 00:00:31,800 are testing. 12 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,635 On one hand, most of you are pretty much the most expert 13 00:00:35,635 --> 00:00:40,370 players in your game at this point in time, [INAUDIBLE] 14 00:00:40,370 --> 00:00:41,700 You know the game better than anybody else. 15 00:00:41,700 --> 00:00:43,085 And the kind of things that-- 16 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,600 that means you suck as a tester. 17 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:52,310 That means you still have a role to play as testers. 18 00:00:52,310 --> 00:00:55,750 You can be looking for the degenerate strategies, and you 19 00:00:55,750 --> 00:00:57,120 can be looking for exploits. 20 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,418 Sometimes it takes more imagination than a 21 00:01:00,418 --> 00:01:04,516 sleep-deprived MIT student has available to them, to be able 22 00:01:04,516 --> 00:01:06,210 to see these exploits. 23 00:01:06,210 --> 00:01:08,495 But, because you know the systems better than anyone 24 00:01:08,495 --> 00:01:11,700 else, you're in a good position to spot that. 25 00:01:11,700 --> 00:01:13,910 The kinds of things you're looking for are obviously 26 00:01:13,910 --> 00:01:15,720 value [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 27 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:16,580 strategy. 28 00:01:16,580 --> 00:01:22,080 I mentioned that the last time we were in this room. 29 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:28,080 But also, look for those strategies were, like, OK, I 30 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:29,610 have two [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 31 00:01:29,610 --> 00:01:32,390 those decision points where I could do decision A or I could 32 00:01:32,390 --> 00:01:38,940 do the decision B, but if I change my strategy, and nobody 33 00:01:38,940 --> 00:01:41,920 else has changed their strategy, I'm screwed. 34 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,110 And that makes it really really hesitant for someone to 35 00:01:46,110 --> 00:01:51,080 say, well, Strategy B could be really interesting, I can go 36 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:55,330 for this kind of play, but on the assumption that the only 37 00:01:55,330 --> 00:01:58,270 way how this is going to be beneficial is if everybody 38 00:01:58,270 --> 00:01:59,730 else also changes their strategy. 39 00:01:59,730 --> 00:02:04,310 Now you have a situation where nobody wants to try that 40 00:02:04,310 --> 00:02:05,370 second option. 41 00:02:05,370 --> 00:02:07,930 That's one way to think about cyberpunks. 42 00:02:07,930 --> 00:02:12,610 It's like, if you change your position and the only way that 43 00:02:12,610 --> 00:02:16,698 you can change your position is at a cost to yourself, then 44 00:02:16,698 --> 00:02:20,925 the benefits of changing that position is going to be lower 45 00:02:20,925 --> 00:02:24,940 than the risk that you're taking on, then you've got a 46 00:02:24,940 --> 00:02:27,716 situation where it's very difficult to break out of one 47 00:02:27,716 --> 00:02:28,950 dominant strategy. 48 00:02:28,950 --> 00:02:31,100 So if you've got a situation where there are three dominant 49 00:02:31,100 --> 00:02:35,550 strategies, then none of them are dominant anymore that's 50 00:02:35,550 --> 00:02:38,420 great, now I have an option of different 51 00:02:38,420 --> 00:02:41,630 things they can choose. 52 00:02:41,630 --> 00:02:44,065 So that's just one thing to keep in mind if all you guys 53 00:02:44,065 --> 00:02:45,560 are looking at a game. 54 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,530 If everyone just ends up adopting the same strategy, 55 00:02:47,530 --> 00:02:52,860 and you're just hoping for a chance of drawing the right 56 00:02:52,860 --> 00:02:56,445 cards, in order to win your game, then [UNINTELLIGIBLE], 57 00:02:56,445 --> 00:02:59,070 then you've got a game where the individual player's 58 00:02:59,070 --> 00:03:03,232 decisions aren't quite that influential on the outcome. 59 00:03:03,232 --> 00:03:07,955 And I still need to play your games to be able to see what 60 00:03:07,955 --> 00:03:08,840 you guys are going for. 61 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,500 But, for the most part, it looks like you guys are not 62 00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:14,082 going for a purely chance-based game. 63 00:03:14,082 --> 00:03:16,305 You're looking for something where someone's decision 64 00:03:16,305 --> 00:03:18,610 actually matters. 65 00:03:18,610 --> 00:03:22,590 So that's one reminder from the game theory point of view. 66 00:03:22,590 --> 00:03:25,260 And the other one I never really got time to talk about 67 00:03:25,260 --> 00:03:27,030 games or system of conflict, and we don't have a huge 68 00:03:27,030 --> 00:03:29,070 amount of time because we have today's 69 00:03:29,070 --> 00:03:31,670 readings to go through. 70 00:03:31,670 --> 00:03:37,760 But if you think about games as games where multiple people 71 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,580 are striving for some sort of goal, and there are going to 72 00:03:39,580 --> 00:03:41,350 be winners and there are going to be losers, then the idea of 73 00:03:41,350 --> 00:03:46,040 thinking of games as some kind of conflict makes sense. 74 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,585 If you think of them as, are games competitive, or are 75 00:03:49,585 --> 00:03:54,630 games cooperative, for throughout some games that are 76 00:03:54,630 --> 00:04:00,490 known to be cooperative [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 77 00:04:00,490 --> 00:04:02,590 there are certain modes in certain different games that 78 00:04:02,590 --> 00:04:06,320 flip it from competitive to cooperative. 79 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,100 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 80 00:04:08,100 --> 00:04:11,065 PROFESSOR: But it is designed for four people to play, all 81 00:04:11,065 --> 00:04:12,070 going for the same goal. 82 00:04:12,070 --> 00:04:13,450 AUDIENCE: Gears of War 83 00:04:13,450 --> 00:04:17,079 PROFESSOR: Gears of War multiplayer, yeah. 84 00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:18,320 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] interesting, yeah. 85 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:23,180 Because it's kind of the risk of cooperation. 86 00:04:23,180 --> 00:04:29,050 Pandemic is you against the board, actually. 87 00:04:29,050 --> 00:04:31,000 You against the game rules. 88 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,726 And actually, that leads into today's lecture a bit. 89 00:04:35,726 --> 00:04:38,770 So hang onto that idea of Pandemic. 90 00:04:38,770 --> 00:04:42,910 But there is one argument that all games are competitive. 91 00:04:42,910 --> 00:04:46,030 Even games like Left for Dead, where you're playing against 92 00:04:46,030 --> 00:04:47,380 the computer, or Pandemic, when you're playing against 93 00:04:47,380 --> 00:04:49,460 the game rules. 94 00:04:49,460 --> 00:04:50,210 Or-- 95 00:04:50,210 --> 00:04:51,960 AUDIENCE: Shelter [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 96 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:53,843 PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] a bit-- 97 00:04:53,843 --> 00:04:55,320 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 98 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:56,825 AUDIENCE: You're mostly playing 99 00:04:56,825 --> 00:04:58,280 against the game rules. 100 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:00,060 Unless there's a trader, there's not 101 00:05:00,060 --> 00:05:01,240 always one in the game. 102 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:06,700 PROFESSOR: But the basic idea is that even in a game that's 103 00:05:06,700 --> 00:05:08,420 generally assumed to be co-op, you're still 104 00:05:08,420 --> 00:05:09,590 playing against the world. 105 00:05:09,590 --> 00:05:12,870 So as competitive against the world, just not here, 106 00:05:12,870 --> 00:05:15,215 computing against the other human people 107 00:05:15,215 --> 00:05:15,770 that are playing it. 108 00:05:15,770 --> 00:05:16,550 If they're competing against. 109 00:05:16,550 --> 00:05:19,270 Anyone is probably going to decide who set it up, to 110 00:05:19,270 --> 00:05:20,300 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 111 00:05:20,300 --> 00:05:23,150 So that's one way to think of all games as competitive. 112 00:05:23,150 --> 00:05:26,616 Obviously, the games that people generally think of as 113 00:05:26,616 --> 00:05:29,420 competitive, real-time games like chess, for instance. 114 00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:31,530 There's one winner, there's one loser, and if there's a 115 00:05:31,530 --> 00:05:34,650 draw then nobody wins. 116 00:05:34,650 --> 00:05:38,460 Or, those games people generally think of as 117 00:05:38,460 --> 00:05:39,380 competitive. 118 00:05:39,380 --> 00:05:42,290 But then, the other way to think about cooperation is 119 00:05:42,290 --> 00:05:44,370 that all games are also cooperative. 120 00:05:44,370 --> 00:05:46,390 Because if you don't agree on the rules-- 121 00:05:46,390 --> 00:05:50,850 if you're all in fact not playing the same rules, then 122 00:05:50,850 --> 00:05:54,030 you don't actually have a game. 123 00:05:54,030 --> 00:05:56,500 So you all have to cooperate to play. 124 00:05:56,500 --> 00:06:00,510 We have the same set of rules and we're going to play 125 00:06:00,510 --> 00:06:01,270 according to them. 126 00:06:01,270 --> 00:06:02,760 That's not necessarily the same thing as saying that 127 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,700 everyone knows all the rules. 128 00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:07,230 There are plenty of games, especially computer games, 129 00:06:07,230 --> 00:06:09,460 where you're going into the game not 130 00:06:09,460 --> 00:06:10,610 knowing all the rules. 131 00:06:10,610 --> 00:06:12,960 You're going to try to figure out the rules as the one 132 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,290 system lets you. 133 00:06:15,290 --> 00:06:17,550 Role-playing games, where you start off like, 134 00:06:17,550 --> 00:06:18,930 I want to do this. 135 00:06:18,930 --> 00:06:21,510 I want to-- you know, get drunk now, 136 00:06:21,510 --> 00:06:22,625 and how do I do that? 137 00:06:22,625 --> 00:06:25,524 And then the GM tells you the rules. 138 00:06:25,524 --> 00:06:28,380 Roll against your-- 139 00:06:28,380 --> 00:06:28,856 AUDIENCE: Constitution. 140 00:06:28,856 --> 00:06:31,280 PROFESSOR: Constitution, is it constitution? 141 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:32,495 AUDIENCE: Yeah, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] but. 142 00:06:32,495 --> 00:06:32,930 Drunkenness. 143 00:06:32,930 --> 00:06:33,660 PROFESSOR: Always good. 144 00:06:33,660 --> 00:06:34,910 Possibly. 145 00:06:36,740 --> 00:06:40,670 And then you get told the rules. 146 00:06:40,670 --> 00:06:43,076 And then you go and do it. 147 00:06:43,076 --> 00:06:45,050 Live-action role-playing games. 148 00:06:45,050 --> 00:06:45,880 I know there's a bunch of people here who play them. 149 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,170 You usually get a subset of all the rules that were 150 00:06:48,170 --> 00:06:49,380 written for the game. 151 00:06:49,380 --> 00:06:51,330 You get the subset that pertains to you. 152 00:06:51,330 --> 00:06:54,940 And you assume that everybody else has the subset that 153 00:06:54,940 --> 00:06:56,030 pertains to them. 154 00:06:56,030 --> 00:06:58,150 And that they're playing according to it. 155 00:06:58,150 --> 00:07:00,850 There's a strong honor system, and even in a game, especially 156 00:07:00,850 --> 00:07:05,585 the kinds that are played in MIT, which are fiercely 157 00:07:05,585 --> 00:07:05,970 competitive. 158 00:07:05,970 --> 00:07:08,200 There's literally assassin games. 159 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,790 You literally want to lead someone into a dark alley and 160 00:07:10,790 --> 00:07:13,590 shoot them. 161 00:07:13,590 --> 00:07:16,110 Even then, you have to assume that whatever rules that 162 00:07:16,110 --> 00:07:18,870 person, who you're leading down a dark alley in order to 163 00:07:18,870 --> 00:07:19,350 shoot them. 164 00:07:19,350 --> 00:07:21,130 Whatever rules [UNINTELLIGIBLE] they're 165 00:07:21,130 --> 00:07:21,910 playing by those rules. 166 00:07:21,910 --> 00:07:23,610 They're not going to say-- 167 00:07:23,610 --> 00:07:27,290 if you shoot them, they can say, that didn't work. 168 00:07:27,290 --> 00:07:30,544 You have to assume that actually didn't work, because 169 00:07:30,544 --> 00:07:32,410 they have rules that tell them when it works and when it 170 00:07:32,410 --> 00:07:33,040 didn't work. 171 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,820 So it's still cooperative, even though 172 00:07:35,820 --> 00:07:38,940 it's competitive play. 173 00:07:38,940 --> 00:07:40,950 And, some terminology now. 174 00:07:40,950 --> 00:07:44,810 There's systemic cooperation, which is what I'm describing. 175 00:07:44,810 --> 00:07:47,880 It's the, you are agreeing that the system works. 176 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,740 And you are agreeing how the system works. 177 00:07:50,740 --> 00:07:52,530 These are the ways how I'm going to 178 00:07:52,530 --> 00:07:52,960 interact with the system. 179 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,810 If I'm going to be playing-- 180 00:07:55,810 --> 00:07:58,340 Goldeneye or [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 181 00:07:58,340 --> 00:07:59,760 on the split screen. 182 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,140 Or Halo on the split screen. 183 00:08:01,140 --> 00:08:06,890 And you agree not to look at somebody else's screen. 184 00:08:06,890 --> 00:08:10,330 Then, that's a systemic rule. 185 00:08:10,330 --> 00:08:13,460 You might also decide, no, it's on the screen, I can't 186 00:08:13,460 --> 00:08:15,710 avoid seeing it, therefore we can all look at 187 00:08:15,710 --> 00:08:16,420 each others' screens. 188 00:08:16,420 --> 00:08:17,830 That would be a systemic rule. 189 00:08:17,830 --> 00:08:22,700 Even though the goals are the same, let's shoot each other. 190 00:08:22,700 --> 00:08:25,170 And then there's clear cooperation, which is a little 191 00:08:25,170 --> 00:08:28,232 bit more like the games like Pandemic and Left for Dead, 192 00:08:28,232 --> 00:08:31,220 where you're explicitly trying to help each other in your 193 00:08:31,220 --> 00:08:32,690 team in a shared goal. 194 00:08:32,690 --> 00:08:37,669 And I'm just trying to differentiate them. 195 00:08:37,669 --> 00:08:42,110 Because it's useful sometimes to sort of try to figure out 196 00:08:42,110 --> 00:08:42,720 the differences. 197 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,672 There's a game that I don't think we're making you play, 198 00:08:45,672 --> 00:08:47,120 called The War on Terror. 199 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,130 That we have in the lab. 200 00:08:50,130 --> 00:08:54,450 And one of the things about this game is that it actually 201 00:08:54,450 --> 00:08:55,230 doesn't end. 202 00:08:55,230 --> 00:08:57,530 If you look at the rules, it seems that there are 203 00:08:57,530 --> 00:09:00,195 conditions for the game end, but they're really, really 204 00:09:00,195 --> 00:09:01,530 hard to reach. 205 00:09:01,530 --> 00:09:05,356 And if you're interested in seeing how the game ends, I'll 206 00:09:05,356 --> 00:09:07,750 be happy to pass you to Cory, and he can try to figure it 207 00:09:07,750 --> 00:09:09,290 out, or play it. 208 00:09:09,290 --> 00:09:11,006 But of course, that's the point that they're trying to 209 00:09:11,006 --> 00:09:11,325 make, right? 210 00:09:11,325 --> 00:09:13,370 It's a War on Terror, it never really ends. 211 00:09:13,370 --> 00:09:15,720 It'll keep going. 212 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:20,140 It perpetuates yourself, and it's designed to be a 213 00:09:20,140 --> 00:09:21,420 competitive game. 214 00:09:21,420 --> 00:09:24,910 Everybody tries to take down all the other states. 215 00:09:24,910 --> 00:09:28,300 The other nation states, by sponsoring terrorist activity, 216 00:09:28,300 --> 00:09:31,952 or trying to defend themselves from terrorist activity. 217 00:09:31,952 --> 00:09:35,068 Which means everybody's responsible for terrorism in 218 00:09:35,068 --> 00:09:37,360 the end, in that game. 219 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,310 But in the end, what you're hoping is at some point in 220 00:09:41,310 --> 00:09:43,853 time, the players are going to cooperate, because this game's 221 00:09:43,853 --> 00:09:44,680 not going to end. 222 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:48,380 That's the whole point of the game. 223 00:09:48,380 --> 00:09:51,980 And the entire group coming to that conclusion in a shared 224 00:09:51,980 --> 00:09:54,790 way, is what the game designers were 225 00:09:54,790 --> 00:09:55,690 trying to go for. 226 00:09:55,690 --> 00:09:56,630 It's a funny game. 227 00:09:56,630 --> 00:09:59,280 Anybody who played Crunch, it was done by the same folks. 228 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:04,988 But it's a little bit more of the, we have an opinion and we 229 00:10:04,988 --> 00:10:07,398 want you to share it, then this is a game that you 230 00:10:07,398 --> 00:10:09,170 actually want to try to win. 231 00:10:09,170 --> 00:10:10,910 It's funny. 232 00:10:10,910 --> 00:10:12,160 [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 233 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,430 So, that's some opinions about cooperation, and that is, 234 00:10:25,430 --> 00:10:27,620 systemic cooperation, where you're agreeing on the rules, 235 00:10:27,620 --> 00:10:30,500 or you agree that the system works. 236 00:10:30,500 --> 00:10:33,660 And that's their cooperation, where players are actually 237 00:10:33,660 --> 00:10:35,710 agreeing towards some sort of shared goal. 238 00:10:35,710 --> 00:10:39,100 And there are games where it flips between player 239 00:10:39,100 --> 00:10:41,220 cooperation and player competition. 240 00:10:41,220 --> 00:10:43,800 It's like-- 241 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,820 Castle Crashers, who's played Castle Crashers? 242 00:10:47,820 --> 00:10:49,360 It's a great game, xBox Live arcade game. 243 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,770 You run around, it's a side scrolling game, where a little 244 00:10:53,770 --> 00:10:55,830 knight with a sword-- 245 00:10:55,830 --> 00:10:56,320 AUDIENCE: It's a sword? 246 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:57,970 AUDIENCE: No, it can be an axe. 247 00:10:57,970 --> 00:11:00,310 It can be a fish. 248 00:11:00,310 --> 00:11:03,178 PROFESSOR: Some sort of bludgeoning device. 249 00:11:03,178 --> 00:11:05,950 Fish is awesome. 250 00:11:05,950 --> 00:11:08,400 And in general, if you're playing with three other 251 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,840 people with controllers right to you on the couch, you're 252 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:12,970 pretty much going for the same goal. 253 00:11:12,970 --> 00:11:15,520 There are you four, and there are a whole bunch of baddies 254 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,350 on screen, and you're trying to kill it all. 255 00:11:18,350 --> 00:11:22,000 But then, as soon as you beat the last one, the game 256 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,140 switches from defeat all the baddies to save the princess. 257 00:11:25,140 --> 00:11:26,280 And, wait a minute-- 258 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,422 AUDIENCE: No, you've already saved the princess. 259 00:11:28,422 --> 00:11:32,100 It goes to get the princess. 260 00:11:32,100 --> 00:11:33,470 PROFESSOR: It becomes get the princess. 261 00:11:33,470 --> 00:11:36,520 There's one princess, there's four knights, and it becomes a 262 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:37,190 competitive game. 263 00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:39,082 All of a sudden, everything that you were using against 264 00:11:39,082 --> 00:11:41,145 the baddies becomes something that 265 00:11:41,145 --> 00:11:43,680 you use on your teammates. 266 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:47,210 And there are games that flip-flop between that. 267 00:11:47,210 --> 00:11:51,460 Diplomacy is a really fluid game in that sense. 268 00:11:51,460 --> 00:11:54,260 You have to assume everybody's competitive in that game. 269 00:11:54,260 --> 00:11:57,600 But the only way to obtain your goals is to cooperate 270 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,210 occasionally. 271 00:11:59,210 --> 00:12:01,940 And so you can adapt. 272 00:12:01,940 --> 00:12:03,140 All that's clear cooperation. 273 00:12:03,140 --> 00:12:05,030 No-one's disagreeing on rules. 274 00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:07,820 So that's systemic cooperation all the way through, but then 275 00:12:07,820 --> 00:12:09,755 there's player competition and cooperation 276 00:12:09,755 --> 00:12:12,940 going back and forth. 277 00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:17,260 So, that's cooperation. 278 00:12:17,260 --> 00:12:24,550 Finally, think a little bit about level playing field and 279 00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:26,820 what it means in your games, whether they're 280 00:12:26,820 --> 00:12:28,330 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 281 00:12:28,330 --> 00:12:30,500 In many of your games, especially card games, they're 282 00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:31,620 going to start with some sort of deal. 283 00:12:31,620 --> 00:12:34,000 They're going to start with some sort of hand, or maybe a 284 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,750 drawing in some sort of systematic way 285 00:12:36,750 --> 00:12:38,095 from a shuffled deck. 286 00:12:38,095 --> 00:12:41,560 That pretty much means that you're starting out with 287 00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:43,250 something that's effectively random. 288 00:12:43,250 --> 00:12:47,500 But then it could be also influenced by your knowledge 289 00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:50,410 of the game, by your skill at the game. 290 00:12:50,410 --> 00:12:54,260 And you want to see how-- 291 00:12:54,260 --> 00:12:57,100 at what point, how do you want to balance it between 292 00:12:57,100 --> 00:13:00,180 someone's skill, familiarity with the game, 293 00:13:00,180 --> 00:13:02,160 against pure chance. 294 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,980 And a level playing field means different things to a 295 00:13:06,980 --> 00:13:09,170 lot of different people. 296 00:13:09,170 --> 00:13:13,177 For some people, it may mean, no matter what skill level I 297 00:13:13,177 --> 00:13:14,560 am, I have a chance at winning. 298 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:16,500 So you're sort of biasing towards chance. 299 00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:21,500 For some people a level playing field is, no matter 300 00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:28,000 what hand I get given, there is a valid strategy. 301 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,090 Or the goals that get set in a way that allows 302 00:13:31,090 --> 00:13:31,810 me to obtain it. 303 00:13:31,810 --> 00:13:35,560 A lot of trick-kicking games, especially games with bidding, 304 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:38,380 actually have an automatic ranking system. 305 00:13:38,380 --> 00:13:41,660 In various lives that you only bid a game that you 306 00:13:41,660 --> 00:13:44,160 think you can win. 307 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,290 And the whole idea is, the game is to push your opponent 308 00:13:47,290 --> 00:13:51,790 to bid on something which they couldn't actually get. 309 00:13:51,790 --> 00:13:54,640 So, that's a level playing field. 310 00:13:54,640 --> 00:14:01,460 I can have a crappy hand, but that's not chance so much as 311 00:14:01,460 --> 00:14:03,730 the decisions that you're making. 312 00:14:03,730 --> 00:14:13,680 So, what I would advocate, in this class, if 313 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:14,930 [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 314 00:14:19,380 --> 00:14:23,550 is, when you're trying to balance it out towards 315 00:14:23,550 --> 00:14:26,330 whatever your interpretation of a level playing field is 316 00:14:26,330 --> 00:14:31,660 going to be, try to pick decisions that push you in the 317 00:14:31,660 --> 00:14:34,320 direction of meaningful decisions. 318 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,610 Things that players can make a decision on, and can see the 319 00:14:37,610 --> 00:14:39,000 consequences. 320 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,050 They can understand how those consequences 321 00:14:40,050 --> 00:14:42,800 play out in the game. 322 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,099 And the outcome of the overall game is going 323 00:14:46,099 --> 00:14:50,720 to be resolved then. 324 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,020 That is, again, not necessarily the only 325 00:14:53,020 --> 00:14:53,750 definition. 326 00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:55,430 So I want to be very very clear. 327 00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:58,220 What I'm asking of you here is not necessarily the only 328 00:14:58,220 --> 00:15:00,750 definition of a well-designed game. 329 00:15:00,750 --> 00:15:06,350 Because designing a game to be played from ages 3 to 90, you 330 00:15:06,350 --> 00:15:09,690 probably want a game where making a meaningful decision 331 00:15:09,690 --> 00:15:12,544 isn't going to bias the game to the point where 332 00:15:12,544 --> 00:15:16,360 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] people, or really smart because that's 333 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,880 just not [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 334 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,110 And this particular task. 335 00:15:22,110 --> 00:15:26,570 Try and bias it so that, in that competitive sense, you 336 00:15:26,570 --> 00:15:30,320 want everyone to feel like they have a chance of winning. 337 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,080 But I want you to bias your game towards the-- 338 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,350 and whether you win or lose is going to be based on the 339 00:15:36,350 --> 00:15:37,490 outcome of these decisions. 340 00:15:37,490 --> 00:15:40,358 Clearly understanding the outcome of the decision that 341 00:15:40,358 --> 00:15:41,100 you make in the game. 342 00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:46,620 Not necessarily just what you wish , or what you were dealt. 343 00:15:50,220 --> 00:15:52,300 You can still use those things in your game. 344 00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:56,135 Sometimes it's the whole idea of the, oh my God, I hope it's 345 00:15:56,135 --> 00:15:59,440 the right card, aargh. 346 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,310 But then there's things like probability. 347 00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:05,640 There's, how much information are you giving to the player 348 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,810 about what the probability that you have the right card 349 00:16:07,810 --> 00:16:08,410 going to be. 350 00:16:08,410 --> 00:16:10,400 Are you letting them look at the deck ahead of time? 351 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,510 Are you giving them information about how many of 352 00:16:12,510 --> 00:16:15,220 those cards are in the deck, so that you can actually make 353 00:16:15,220 --> 00:16:18,450 guesses on-- all right, we played through half this deck 354 00:16:18,450 --> 00:16:22,042 and we haven't seen any of those cards yet, that means 355 00:16:22,042 --> 00:16:23,410 the probability of that card showing up has now gone up. 356 00:16:23,410 --> 00:16:26,350 And now we come to a decision that you can make. 357 00:16:26,350 --> 00:16:29,180 Do I draw, do I hold-- 358 00:16:29,180 --> 00:16:32,000 that sort of thing. 359 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,030 So that's my suggestion for this class. 360 00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:40,884 I would love to be able to see those kinds of games come out 361 00:16:40,884 --> 00:16:42,134 of this class. 362 00:16:46,410 --> 00:16:49,080 So that's all the things that [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 363 00:16:53,530 --> 00:16:58,360 So, actually, before we move on, does anyone have any 364 00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:59,610 questions regarding that? 365 00:17:06,535 --> 00:17:08,900 One point of administration. 366 00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:13,164 Who here needs to print on the Gambit printers? 367 00:17:13,164 --> 00:17:17,304 Or who here has access to other printers that you guys 368 00:17:17,304 --> 00:17:19,128 are fairly confident about using for your assignment? 369 00:17:19,128 --> 00:17:20,619 You need a printer? 370 00:17:20,619 --> 00:17:24,757 AUDIENCE: No, did you say that you need a printer or that you 371 00:17:24,757 --> 00:17:25,140 have access. 372 00:17:25,140 --> 00:17:25,700 Because you said both? 373 00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:25,980 PROFESSOR: Oh, right. 374 00:17:25,980 --> 00:17:29,460 So who here needs to use Gambit printers? 375 00:17:29,460 --> 00:17:32,600 Who absolutely needs to use Gambit printers. 376 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,698 Because we don't actually have computers set up for 377 00:17:34,698 --> 00:17:35,948 everybody to log in. 378 00:17:40,846 --> 00:17:43,552 So I would suggest not using any of the computers in this 379 00:17:43,552 --> 00:17:44,790 lab because [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 380 00:17:44,790 --> 00:17:48,180 lab work on it. 381 00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:51,971 So you've all got access to printers, that's awesome. 382 00:17:51,971 --> 00:17:53,221 I think you sent out an e-mail about card stock. 383 00:17:55,580 --> 00:17:58,064 AUDIENCE: That card stock's actually out of stock. 384 00:17:58,064 --> 00:17:59,810 PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 385 00:17:59,810 --> 00:18:01,480 AUDIENCE: I went to order and I was like, oh, shit. 386 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:02,730 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 387 00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:08,140 AUDIENCE: Is there like a Staples somewhere near here? 388 00:18:08,140 --> 00:18:09,290 PROFESSOR: Harvard has a Staples, 389 00:18:09,290 --> 00:18:10,850 downtown has a staples. 390 00:18:10,850 --> 00:18:11,562 AUDIENCE: CopyTech has-- 391 00:18:11,562 --> 00:18:13,910 AUDIENCE: I went to CopyTech and they said they can print 392 00:18:13,910 --> 00:18:17,270 and cut your cards for you. 393 00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:21,140 PROFESSOR: They have a pretty awesome card printer. 394 00:18:21,140 --> 00:18:24,805 Their cutter is harsh, harsh. 395 00:18:24,805 --> 00:18:26,710 AUDIENCE: What does that mean? 396 00:18:26,710 --> 00:18:28,910 PROFESSOR: Well, first of all, it's really pointy on the 397 00:18:28,910 --> 00:18:31,140 corners, which is kind of cool if that's what 398 00:18:31,140 --> 00:18:32,545 you're going for. 399 00:18:32,545 --> 00:18:34,300 But [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 400 00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:35,750 AUDIENCE: Can they round it or do we have to use-- 401 00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:36,750 AUDIENCE: I don't think they can. 402 00:18:36,750 --> 00:18:37,330 PROFESSOR: They can't. 403 00:18:37,330 --> 00:18:39,330 I have a rounder. 404 00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:43,010 I have a corner punch that, you have to do it four times 405 00:18:43,010 --> 00:18:44,570 for each card, but-- 406 00:18:44,570 --> 00:18:45,537 AUDIENCE: We'll do it. 407 00:18:45,537 --> 00:18:46,968 We can do it. 408 00:18:46,968 --> 00:18:49,480 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 409 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,720 PROFESSOR: Just ask me and you can borrow it. 410 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,450 You may want to do it on some test cards before you really 411 00:18:54,450 --> 00:18:56,150 get a sense of how it works. 412 00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:58,540 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 413 00:18:58,540 --> 00:19:00,390 And I wouldn't suggest punching more than 414 00:19:00,390 --> 00:19:02,250 one card at a time. 415 00:19:02,250 --> 00:19:07,870 The other thing is, if you're printing it on a, not like 416 00:19:07,870 --> 00:19:09,760 CopyTech, where they obviously know what kind of paper works 417 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,664 best with their printers. 418 00:19:11,664 --> 00:19:14,185 If you're printing it on something like a Laserjet, if 419 00:19:14,185 --> 00:19:18,280 you go to the paper manufacturer's website, a lot 420 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,130 of them actually specifically state Laserjet compatible. 421 00:19:21,130 --> 00:19:23,270 And the problem is actually the width of the card. 422 00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:25,720 There's not the folding of the paper as it 423 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,170 goes through the printer. 424 00:19:27,170 --> 00:19:30,722 It's whether the toner will bond to the paper. 425 00:19:30,722 --> 00:19:33,984 Like, does the paper get hot enough, and open up 426 00:19:33,984 --> 00:19:35,180 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 427 00:19:35,180 --> 00:19:36,900 Does the paper get hot enough for the 428 00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:38,660 toner to actually bind. 429 00:19:38,660 --> 00:19:40,940 And a lot of card stocks actually don't, because 430 00:19:40,940 --> 00:19:42,840 they're so thick that the heat doesn't transfer well. 431 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,815 And as a result of that, after print it looks great when it 432 00:19:45,815 --> 00:19:47,530 comes out and it starts leaking. 433 00:19:47,530 --> 00:19:51,320 So, that's the problem with the card stock. 434 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,890 Some card stocks will jam your printer, but the majority of 435 00:19:54,890 --> 00:19:58,940 the modern Laserjets actually deal pretty well with that. 436 00:19:58,940 --> 00:20:01,552 [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 437 00:20:01,552 --> 00:20:02,985 AUDIENCE: Did you want us to print on card stock for 438 00:20:02,985 --> 00:20:04,750 Wednesday, or was that for when it's due? 439 00:20:04,750 --> 00:20:06,058 PROFESSOR: When it's due. 440 00:20:06,058 --> 00:20:06,348 AUDIENCE: OK. 441 00:20:06,348 --> 00:20:07,770 So Wednesday-- 442 00:20:07,770 --> 00:20:09,430 PROFESSOR: And in fact, printing card stock for when 443 00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:12,640 it's due is not necessary. 444 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,740 It is much appreciated. 445 00:20:14,740 --> 00:20:17,336 It was a great thing for you to do for yourself, if you 446 00:20:17,336 --> 00:20:20,232 want to make copies for your friends or your team, that you 447 00:20:20,232 --> 00:20:22,490 actually want to end up playing. 448 00:20:22,490 --> 00:20:25,210 To be perfectly honest, if you say-- 449 00:20:25,210 --> 00:20:29,210 if our printer wasn't working and all we could do were these 450 00:20:29,210 --> 00:20:34,260 regular white papers, if I also cut them in the right 451 00:20:34,260 --> 00:20:37,570 shape, so then we could just play the game, that's fine. 452 00:20:37,570 --> 00:20:41,854 We're not going to take the weight of your paper and do 453 00:20:41,854 --> 00:20:42,620 the [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 454 00:20:42,620 --> 00:20:43,896 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] the deck first, erm. 455 00:20:43,896 --> 00:20:45,146 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 456 00:20:50,305 --> 00:20:53,868 PROFESSOR: Has anyone played, what was it, High Society 457 00:20:53,868 --> 00:20:54,784 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 458 00:20:54,784 --> 00:20:55,242 AUDIENCE: Yes. 459 00:20:55,242 --> 00:20:57,310 AUDIENCE: Those are awesome. 460 00:20:57,310 --> 00:21:00,974 PROFESSOR: They were like kids' books, you know? 461 00:21:00,974 --> 00:21:02,224 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 462 00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:07,100 PROFESSOR: If anyone does have issues printing, before you 463 00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:09,190 jump straight into the [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 464 00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:14,245 talk to Jason and I. Jason usually has room by the TV 465 00:21:14,245 --> 00:21:16,587 lounge, my room is just down the corridor. 466 00:21:16,587 --> 00:21:19,510 And we might be able to help you with that. 467 00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:23,681 But in general, if you've got access to other printers, go 468 00:21:23,681 --> 00:21:24,154 right for it. 469 00:21:24,154 --> 00:21:27,000 Because going through us is a bottleneck. 470 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,627 Again, not for Wednesday. 471 00:21:28,627 --> 00:21:32,610 For Wednesday just have something testable so that we 472 00:21:32,610 --> 00:21:35,640 can [UNINTELLIGIBLE] before the date it's due, try to 473 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:36,380 print something. 474 00:21:36,380 --> 00:21:39,100 You don't want to wait until the last minute and you don't 475 00:21:39,100 --> 00:21:43,230 want to suddenly realize that your paper doesn't work very 476 00:21:43,230 --> 00:21:44,480 well with the printer at the last minute. 477 00:21:48,290 --> 00:21:54,782 So, today's reading was Bartle and Chapter 11, I think, of 478 00:21:54,782 --> 00:21:58,450 the [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 479 00:21:58,450 --> 00:22:03,420 And in general, both of them are asking the same question. 480 00:22:03,420 --> 00:22:07,400 Which is, who are you designing your game for? 481 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:08,852 On the assumption that you're not designing 482 00:22:08,852 --> 00:22:10,210 the game for yourself. 483 00:22:10,210 --> 00:22:12,770 Of course, realistically, if you're going to get a job 484 00:22:12,770 --> 00:22:17,160 making games, the majority of the games that you're going to 485 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,988 design are not games for yourself, they're going to be 486 00:22:18,988 --> 00:22:21,720 games for some other demographic. 487 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:29,070 And the Bartle paper is a little bit more influential in 488 00:22:29,070 --> 00:22:32,330 how people think about games, because it shifted the 489 00:22:32,330 --> 00:22:36,760 question from, what's the age group, what's the demographic, 490 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,340 what are people out there who are already buying 491 00:22:39,340 --> 00:22:42,060 games going to want? 492 00:22:42,060 --> 00:22:45,530 And you fit that into, what sort of things are people 493 00:22:45,530 --> 00:22:48,250 looking for in a game? 494 00:22:48,250 --> 00:22:49,650 He doesn't actually take it to the next 495 00:22:49,650 --> 00:22:50,960 step, which is where-- 496 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,742 I think he wrote that in the 70s or late 497 00:22:55,742 --> 00:22:57,694 80s, does anyone remember? 498 00:22:57,694 --> 00:22:58,190 AUDIENCE: In the 90s. 499 00:22:58,190 --> 00:23:00,590 AUDIENCE: I think it was in, like, 1990. 500 00:23:00,590 --> 00:23:01,840 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 501 00:23:11,140 --> 00:23:15,260 PROFESSOR: But a lot of the ideas come 502 00:23:15,260 --> 00:23:16,430 from the 70s, actually. 503 00:23:16,430 --> 00:23:19,610 Because that's when he made the first MUD. 504 00:23:19,610 --> 00:23:21,070 RIchard Bartle [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 505 00:23:21,070 --> 00:23:22,340 AUDIENCE: What exactly is a MUD? 506 00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:24,430 They never actually described it. 507 00:23:24,430 --> 00:23:26,450 They just assumed everyone knew what a MUD was. 508 00:23:26,450 --> 00:23:27,870 PROFESSOR: MUD stands for Multi-User Dungeon. 509 00:23:27,870 --> 00:23:29,780 Anyone want to describe one? 510 00:23:29,780 --> 00:23:36,360 AUDIENCE: It's like, an online text-adventure thing, where 511 00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:39,800 everyone's interacting with the same 512 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,050 text-based dungeon thing. 513 00:23:41,050 --> 00:23:45,040 AUDIENCE: The best way to describe it is, imagine if WoW 514 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,100 was presented entirely [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 515 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,180 AUDIENCE: I found that kind of annoying in the text. 516 00:23:53,180 --> 00:23:54,893 He just assumed everyone knew what a MUD was. 517 00:23:54,893 --> 00:23:58,060 But never actually said, this is what a MUD is. 518 00:23:58,060 --> 00:23:58,900 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 519 00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:01,770 Because the whole sort of, reading the article, actually 520 00:24:01,770 --> 00:24:04,110 I believe he formatted that for a forum 521 00:24:04,110 --> 00:24:07,670 post for for community. 522 00:24:07,670 --> 00:24:09,470 So there's an assumption. 523 00:24:09,470 --> 00:24:13,350 But yeah, apologies for that. 524 00:24:13,350 --> 00:24:15,330 Actually, if you're interested-- and here he does 525 00:24:15,330 --> 00:24:16,620 define it right at the bottom. 526 00:24:16,620 --> 00:24:18,607 Which is right at the end of the article here. 527 00:24:18,607 --> 00:24:22,708 He talks about specifically, this is what I mean by MUD. 528 00:24:22,708 --> 00:24:24,873 Somewhere in the footnotes--these text 529 00:24:24,873 --> 00:24:28,620 adventures, text-style online games where multiple people 530 00:24:28,620 --> 00:24:30,300 are interacting. 531 00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:33,900 And if you look at the rest of the website, there's actually 532 00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:34,860 a bunch of stuff about how MUDs work. 533 00:24:34,860 --> 00:24:39,200 But, for the most part, that was sort of online multiplayer 534 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,530 gaming, back when he started. 535 00:24:43,530 --> 00:24:46,670 He's credited for having built the first MUD. 536 00:24:46,670 --> 00:24:50,690 And, frankly, not all that different from 537 00:24:50,690 --> 00:24:53,630 MMOGs you get today. 538 00:24:53,630 --> 00:24:56,240 The difference being that they were all text. 539 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:01,050 But you still went out hunting monsters. 540 00:25:01,050 --> 00:25:03,270 They call them mobiles, or mobs. 541 00:25:03,270 --> 00:25:05,592 And in fact there's still some of that 542 00:25:05,592 --> 00:25:08,270 terminology going around. 543 00:25:08,270 --> 00:25:10,010 They drop loot. 544 00:25:10,010 --> 00:25:11,570 You will pick up loot and show it off. 545 00:25:11,570 --> 00:25:13,995 And sometimes, some games [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 546 00:25:13,995 --> 00:25:15,180 loot. 547 00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:16,960 Most games let you exchange loot. 548 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,460 And then you would use your loot to go and kill other 549 00:25:19,460 --> 00:25:22,650 monsters and get better loot. 550 00:25:22,650 --> 00:25:23,540 Sometimes you'd do it with other people. 551 00:25:23,540 --> 00:25:26,270 Sometimes you attack other people. 552 00:25:26,270 --> 00:25:28,620 Sometimes you just hang around and chat and talk about things 553 00:25:28,620 --> 00:25:30,180 that are completely not in game, like what did I have for 554 00:25:30,180 --> 00:25:32,200 lunch today. 555 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,450 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 556 00:25:35,670 --> 00:25:38,620 And sometimes it will take multiple 557 00:25:38,620 --> 00:25:41,664 people to take a monster. 558 00:25:41,664 --> 00:25:43,628 And it was just handled on a how fast can you 559 00:25:43,628 --> 00:25:45,300 type kind of thing. 560 00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:48,490 Attack monster, attack monster. 561 00:25:48,490 --> 00:25:57,380 I think you can just hit repeat and but, the behaviors 562 00:25:57,380 --> 00:26:00,260 are also not all that different. 563 00:26:00,260 --> 00:26:08,520 And how he describes it is, a game will sight itself in a 564 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:13,860 position where it is variably appealing to 565 00:26:13,860 --> 00:26:15,990 various kinds of players. 566 00:26:15,990 --> 00:26:18,110 And that's how he described it. 567 00:26:18,110 --> 00:26:21,100 Where game studies has kind of gone on to since then, is the 568 00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:25,830 realization that just because you're-- 569 00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:27,080 some people through all the four types that you-- 570 00:26:31,116 --> 00:26:32,426 AUDIENCE: Explorer. 571 00:26:32,426 --> 00:26:34,716 Killer. 572 00:26:34,716 --> 00:26:36,210 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 573 00:26:36,210 --> 00:26:38,190 PROFESSOR: So, there are these four types of players. 574 00:26:38,190 --> 00:26:41,185 And just because you're an achiever in one game doesn't 575 00:26:41,185 --> 00:26:43,460 necessarily mean that you're going to be an achiever in 576 00:26:43,460 --> 00:26:43,800 another game. 577 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,640 Different people play different games, or possibly 578 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,030 even different types of the same game, 579 00:26:48,030 --> 00:26:50,440 for different reasons. 580 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,620 And that's where we go back to earlier concepts that we 581 00:26:53,620 --> 00:26:55,450 brought up, is [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 582 00:26:55,450 --> 00:26:55,840 kinds of fun. 583 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,170 What are people trying to get out of their game playing? 584 00:26:59,170 --> 00:27:02,340 So, but he was-- 585 00:27:02,340 --> 00:27:05,050 if you're looking at the content of any one of MUD, and 586 00:27:05,050 --> 00:27:07,780 a little slice of what you saw of somebody's personality, 587 00:27:07,780 --> 00:27:08,754 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 588 00:27:08,754 --> 00:27:12,650 and all the things that they were doing. 589 00:27:12,650 --> 00:27:14,260 And the kinds of things that you tended to keep doing every 590 00:27:14,260 --> 00:27:17,360 time you logged in, it was very easy to stereotype them 591 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:19,820 into somewhere along those lines. 592 00:27:19,820 --> 00:27:22,954 Even he acknowledges that nobody's really all the way on 593 00:27:22,954 --> 00:27:25,560 one of these layers. 594 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,502 Griefers, I think, are the words that I hear generally 595 00:27:29,502 --> 00:27:31,740 used for killers nowadays. 596 00:27:31,740 --> 00:27:33,821 But even then, that's not quite the way 597 00:27:33,821 --> 00:27:34,580 that he's using it. 598 00:27:34,580 --> 00:27:37,880 He's actually using it as somebody who's generally still 599 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,270 playing by the rules of the game. 600 00:27:40,270 --> 00:27:43,740 They are there to cause misery to other people, but they're 601 00:27:43,740 --> 00:27:46,150 not there to break the game. 602 00:27:46,150 --> 00:27:48,980 There is a class of people called griefers, who are 603 00:27:48,980 --> 00:27:51,962 deliberately trying to find ways to exploit the system, to 604 00:27:51,962 --> 00:27:56,550 just make the game just kind of silly. 605 00:27:56,550 --> 00:27:59,390 But all the other dynamics that he draws on 606 00:27:59,390 --> 00:28:00,320 are very much there. 607 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:01,480 You get a whole bunch of socializers together. 608 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,330 People who want to do nothing but chat and have a good time, 609 00:28:05,330 --> 00:28:06,670 they don't really care about the game, and there's going to 610 00:28:06,670 --> 00:28:09,240 be a whole bunch of people going right after them, saying 611 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,640 these are great people to grief. 612 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,560 Because they are enjoying themselves so much. 613 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:16,810 We could end that. 614 00:28:19,473 --> 00:28:24,270 Second Life gets a lot of this, because Second Life has 615 00:28:24,270 --> 00:28:25,640 that whole, you can do anything you want. 616 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,216 And socializing is one of the big things. 617 00:28:28,216 --> 00:28:33,110 Personalizing is one of the big things. 618 00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:39,380 So, do keep in mind that the way that he's talking about 619 00:28:39,380 --> 00:28:43,290 it, sounds like all of these different personalities are 620 00:28:43,290 --> 00:28:46,786 somewhat mutually exclusive when really the discussion has 621 00:28:46,786 --> 00:28:52,040 now come to, how do you cater to all of these different 622 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,940 desires at any given time? 623 00:28:53,940 --> 00:28:56,610 I may be an achiever today, I may be an explorer tomorrow. 624 00:28:56,610 --> 00:29:00,040 And he even talks about explorers thinking that 625 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,600 achievers are beginner explorers, because it's like, 626 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,260 once you've already beaten the game, what else is there left 627 00:29:07,260 --> 00:29:11,858 to do but explore what else you can do? 628 00:29:11,858 --> 00:29:15,714 So he himself acknowledges that there's some personality 629 00:29:15,714 --> 00:29:19,110 transfer that can happen. 630 00:29:19,110 --> 00:29:22,280 But it's kind of interesting how he talks about the 631 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,210 feedback loops of people. 632 00:29:25,210 --> 00:29:32,760 You'll get a whole bunch of achievers, and you get a whole 633 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,010 bunch of socializers. 634 00:29:39,030 --> 00:29:41,060 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 635 00:29:41,060 --> 00:29:43,360 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] killers, and achievers-- 636 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,660 PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] you've got the competition 637 00:29:44,660 --> 00:29:47,340 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 638 00:29:47,340 --> 00:29:50,260 But he also makes this weird assumption that there is a 639 00:29:50,260 --> 00:29:52,560 finite pool of people who are going to be playing the game. 640 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:59,940 Which is actually true, even in a 10-20 million player game 641 00:29:59,940 --> 00:30:02,330 like in World of Warcraft. 642 00:30:02,330 --> 00:30:04,150 All those things have to be-- 643 00:30:04,150 --> 00:30:07,126 we don't have 20 million people 644 00:30:07,126 --> 00:30:09,610 logging onto one server. 645 00:30:09,610 --> 00:30:12,780 They say, I have [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 646 00:30:12,780 --> 00:30:14,190 or something. 647 00:30:14,190 --> 00:30:15,600 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 648 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,950 AUDIENCE: Exactly, exactly. 649 00:30:17,950 --> 00:30:19,470 AUDIENCE: And I'm like, once [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 650 00:30:19,470 --> 00:30:21,450 you can start [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 651 00:30:21,450 --> 00:30:24,420 that are just really big numbers. 652 00:30:28,576 --> 00:30:31,880 Like, 25-- it's currently 25 is the highest. 653 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,655 They used to go to 40. 654 00:30:33,655 --> 00:30:35,815 But yeah, and you just kill bigger monsters 655 00:30:35,815 --> 00:30:39,520 and get lots of loot. 656 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,820 And then there's PvP, which you go-- 657 00:30:42,820 --> 00:30:45,230 the main thing right now is arenas. 658 00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:48,930 And you have the team of two or three or five, and you 659 00:30:48,930 --> 00:30:52,767 fight other players with your gear by doing battlegrounds 660 00:30:52,767 --> 00:30:54,240 and [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 661 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,700 arena. 662 00:30:56,700 --> 00:31:00,820 And it's basically, WoW. 663 00:31:00,820 --> 00:31:01,609 PROFESSOR: I can't remember. 664 00:31:01,609 --> 00:31:03,565 Are there role-playing servers? 665 00:31:03,565 --> 00:31:04,054 AUDIENCE: Yes. 666 00:31:04,054 --> 00:31:06,010 There are role-playing servers. 667 00:31:06,010 --> 00:31:09,759 I have actually never visited one, so I can't really talk 668 00:31:09,759 --> 00:31:10,900 about that. 669 00:31:10,900 --> 00:31:12,150 AUDIENCE: That's a lot of dancing. 670 00:31:15,877 --> 00:31:16,860 PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 671 00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:20,090 slash dance, maybe, or your character dances. 672 00:31:20,090 --> 00:31:23,360 And it was those things that really is popular among 673 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:28,680 socialized type players all over-- 674 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:29,540 and Diablo. 675 00:31:29,540 --> 00:31:31,160 But it's not just [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 676 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,823 I mean, slash dance means other things now. 677 00:31:34,823 --> 00:31:37,264 It could mean I'm bored. 678 00:31:37,264 --> 00:31:40,148 It's like, I have nothing to do right now, I have to wait 679 00:31:40,148 --> 00:31:42,970 for this stupid thing to respawn, slash dance. 680 00:31:42,970 --> 00:31:46,800 It's more fun than just standing there. 681 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:52,050 But there is a group in WoW. 682 00:31:52,050 --> 00:31:54,080 And I guess-- 683 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:55,970 maybe not a group. 684 00:31:55,970 --> 00:32:01,384 There are folks who play World of Warcraft and they engage 685 00:32:01,384 --> 00:32:03,400 you to think on theory crafts. 686 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:09,520 Which is, how we optimize the way how you build a character. 687 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,500 And the things that you equip a character for, to make that 688 00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:16,140 character really, really good at doing one or 689 00:32:16,140 --> 00:32:17,780 two different things. 690 00:32:17,780 --> 00:32:20,070 So as you're building up a character that's designed to 691 00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:23,230 heal, what class should they be, what race should they be, 692 00:32:23,230 --> 00:32:27,470 what equipment should they be getting, depending on what 693 00:32:27,470 --> 00:32:29,880 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] you are in the game. 694 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,195 And they're going to try to derive as much of the math of 695 00:32:34,195 --> 00:32:40,800 the cause and effect in the game as they possibly can. 696 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,050 There is actually [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 697 00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:46,120 which is-- 698 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,370 [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 699 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,280 It's actually kind of funny. 700 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:01,760 The Elitist Jerks' forums had one guy who just happened to 701 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:07,760 write a forum post about dressing up in real life. 702 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,648 Like, this is how you get really nice [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 703 00:33:11,648 --> 00:33:16,530 because he worked at a men's fashion place. 704 00:33:16,530 --> 00:33:19,608 And it it turned out that that community was really, really, 705 00:33:19,608 --> 00:33:22,476 really interested in learning more about that. 706 00:33:22,476 --> 00:33:24,320 Which is actually not all that weird. 707 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,992 It's like, you care about what armor you get in the game. 708 00:33:26,992 --> 00:33:29,000 You care about what you wear in real life. 709 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,160 Especially if it might have some impact on your real life. 710 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,200 What job that you're looking for. 711 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,590 OK, you know. 712 00:33:36,590 --> 00:33:38,930 So, I would actually put those more in the 713 00:33:38,930 --> 00:33:40,700 explorers part of things. 714 00:33:40,700 --> 00:33:42,310 Sure, they're looking to optimize. 715 00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:43,800 They're looking to do their best. 716 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,990 But they're not looking to be necessarily rewarded by the 717 00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:46,585 game system. 718 00:33:46,585 --> 00:33:49,760 They're using the game system to test their ideas against. 719 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:55,452 It's like, I'm looking for a better way to suck up more 720 00:33:55,452 --> 00:33:57,460 damage, because I'm a tank. 721 00:33:57,460 --> 00:34:00,110 I'm supposed to be absorbing all the damage. 722 00:34:00,110 --> 00:34:04,010 Or the other as they call it. 723 00:34:04,010 --> 00:34:08,260 Or the attentions of the characters being controlled by 724 00:34:08,260 --> 00:34:12,010 the computer, while the rest of my folks put out a lot of 725 00:34:12,010 --> 00:34:14,739 damage, can do their job. 726 00:34:14,739 --> 00:34:20,940 But I am not interested in what the system has deemed to 727 00:34:20,940 --> 00:34:24,639 be, you have absorbed tons of damage, good job. 728 00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:26,389 I don't care what the system says. 729 00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:29,130 I care how the system operates, so that I could 730 00:34:29,130 --> 00:34:32,746 optimize it through some sort of metric that I've figured 731 00:34:32,746 --> 00:34:35,226 out and my friends have figured out and the community 732 00:34:35,226 --> 00:34:36,714 has figured out. 733 00:34:36,714 --> 00:34:38,512 So I want to understand the system. 734 00:34:38,512 --> 00:34:39,690 Again, that's what it comes down to. 735 00:34:39,690 --> 00:34:42,109 The metric that they're using is, how do I optimize it. 736 00:34:42,109 --> 00:34:45,866 But for the most part, people who engage in that kind of 737 00:34:45,866 --> 00:34:49,110 theory craft, it's like about this armor combined with those 738 00:34:49,110 --> 00:34:53,660 pants, I've proven something, those are well in the area of 739 00:34:53,660 --> 00:34:58,595 explorers even though their behavior seems very much, 740 00:34:58,595 --> 00:35:00,370 that's the best solution. 741 00:35:00,370 --> 00:35:05,040 Whereas achievers are very much focused on, how do I get 742 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,812 to level-- it's like, how do I get the coolest mount. 743 00:35:08,812 --> 00:35:13,340 In World of Warcraft you can ride around and every once in 744 00:35:13,340 --> 00:35:16,380 a while, Blizzard, the company that makes it, will release 745 00:35:16,380 --> 00:35:17,310 some new stuff. 746 00:35:17,310 --> 00:35:21,540 And the achievers will say, I've got to get that. 747 00:35:21,540 --> 00:35:23,558 Because the space [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 748 00:35:23,558 --> 00:35:25,967 it takes a lot of effort and a lot of money to be able to get 749 00:35:25,967 --> 00:35:26,630 one of those things. 750 00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:28,922 But to be able to get it, it gives you some 751 00:35:28,922 --> 00:35:30,305 recognizable status. 752 00:35:30,305 --> 00:35:33,130 You will see someone with the limited edition of 753 00:35:33,130 --> 00:35:35,180 some kind of mount. 754 00:35:35,180 --> 00:35:38,944 And you'll know that [UNINTELLIGIBLE] is to spend a 755 00:35:38,944 --> 00:35:41,070 heck of a lot of time in this game and play the game really 756 00:35:41,070 --> 00:35:43,490 well, that's the kind of recognition 757 00:35:43,490 --> 00:35:44,340 they're looking for. 758 00:35:44,340 --> 00:35:45,535 So that's the difference between 759 00:35:45,535 --> 00:35:48,330 achievers and explorers. 760 00:35:48,330 --> 00:35:50,930 So I want to try one little activity. 761 00:35:50,930 --> 00:35:58,240 Which is, I've got the chart that Bartle lays out. 762 00:35:58,240 --> 00:35:59,540 The whole player versus-- 763 00:36:02,330 --> 00:36:06,920 interacting and acting, player and the world. 764 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,530 And he uses this to describe where your game could be at 765 00:36:11,530 --> 00:36:13,330 any given time. 766 00:36:13,330 --> 00:36:19,080 If you're acting on players that your game's biased 767 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,000 towards killers. 768 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,105 If you're designing your game to be more about interacting 769 00:36:24,105 --> 00:36:26,556 with other players, then you're somewhat biasing it 770 00:36:26,556 --> 00:36:27,830 towards socializers. 771 00:36:27,830 --> 00:36:32,060 Interacting with the world is more for the achievers. 772 00:36:32,060 --> 00:36:34,620 Acting on the world is more for the achievers. 773 00:36:34,620 --> 00:36:38,132 Given these quests, I've beaten all the quests. 774 00:36:38,132 --> 00:36:41,660 I have 100% of the quests complete. 775 00:36:41,660 --> 00:36:42,700 That's achievers. 776 00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:46,150 And interacting with the world is more of the explorers. 777 00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:49,800 It's like, what else can you do in this world? 778 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,160 There are these goals that are set, that's great. 779 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,635 But how does this world work that I can do cool stuff. 780 00:36:53,635 --> 00:36:56,110 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] distinction between acting and 781 00:36:56,110 --> 00:37:01,060 interacting, incredibly [UNINTELLIGIBLE], I didn't 782 00:37:01,060 --> 00:37:04,530 really understand what he was trying to say. 783 00:37:04,530 --> 00:37:05,210 PROFESSOR: It was [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 784 00:37:05,210 --> 00:37:07,610 I think he came across those terms because 785 00:37:07,610 --> 00:37:10,635 they sounded cute. 786 00:37:10,635 --> 00:37:12,800 Acting, interacting, is like a-- 787 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,870 AUDIENCE: I mean, can you interact without action? 788 00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:16,640 PROFESSOR: Well, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 789 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,630 AUDIENCE: What does that mean? 790 00:37:19,630 --> 00:37:22,750 And, like, the really classic example he gives. 791 00:37:22,750 --> 00:37:28,230 Like, the acting on a play is like a pure [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 792 00:37:28,230 --> 00:37:30,190 the other player fights back. 793 00:37:30,190 --> 00:37:33,640 There's an interaction there. 794 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:33,970 PROFESSOR: Sure. 795 00:37:33,970 --> 00:37:35,330 But the thing about it-- 796 00:37:35,330 --> 00:37:36,580 AUDIENCE: But the difference there-- 797 00:37:36,580 --> 00:37:39,680 PROFESSOR: So I believe what he means by that is that the 798 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,436 killer is actually less interested in what the player 799 00:37:41,436 --> 00:37:43,610 does back to him. 800 00:37:43,610 --> 00:37:45,450 In some sense, they are interacting because they're 801 00:37:45,450 --> 00:37:48,050 trying to see what sort of response they get. 802 00:37:48,050 --> 00:37:50,674 It's like, I'm going to do something to this player. 803 00:37:50,674 --> 00:37:56,230 This player's either going to die, or fight back, or whine 804 00:37:56,230 --> 00:37:59,250 about the fact that I'm hitting him so much. 805 00:37:59,250 --> 00:38:02,650 But they're not looking for the competitive bit. 806 00:38:02,650 --> 00:38:06,718 They're not really interested in the, and now that person's 807 00:38:06,718 --> 00:38:07,702 going to turn around and attack me. 808 00:38:07,702 --> 00:38:11,115 AUDIENCE: I know, but the whole point is supposed to be 809 00:38:11,115 --> 00:38:14,660 that killers are griefers, so they really care about how 810 00:38:14,660 --> 00:38:16,210 people respond to them. 811 00:38:16,210 --> 00:38:20,775 He says later on that one of the most annoying things you 812 00:38:20,775 --> 00:38:23,160 can do to a griefer is just ignore them and 813 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:23,830 not rise to the bait. 814 00:38:23,830 --> 00:38:27,930 So interacting seems to be the crucial thing. 815 00:38:27,930 --> 00:38:29,230 Again, I feel like his-- 816 00:38:29,230 --> 00:38:30,480 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 817 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:41,200 AUDIENCE: I kind of see it as, does the person care about how 818 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,190 the other works, in a sense? 819 00:38:44,190 --> 00:38:48,590 And so it is the case that a griefer wants to 820 00:38:48,590 --> 00:38:50,400 get a certain reaction. 821 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,540 But beyond that it doesn't matter. 822 00:38:53,540 --> 00:38:57,920 So in the same case within the game system, I want it to do 823 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,390 this thing, I want it to give me points but why it did that 824 00:39:00,390 --> 00:39:03,440 or how the mechanic works is kind of irrelevant. 825 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,740 And that's how I understood it. 826 00:39:06,740 --> 00:39:12,060 AUDIENCE: Well, in particular, with the interacting, when 827 00:39:12,060 --> 00:39:16,040 somebody is like trying to player kill or something, the 828 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,300 reaction is not necessarily-- the reaction they're looking 829 00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:22,700 for is to piss somebody off, right? 830 00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:26,940 And that reaction is not necessarily part of the game. 831 00:39:26,940 --> 00:39:34,000 So, it is acting on them because you are taking what 832 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,680 the game allows you to do, and using this against a person. 833 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,680 But you don't care about what they use in the 834 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:39,630 game against you. 835 00:39:39,630 --> 00:39:42,750 You more care about this abstract idea. 836 00:39:42,750 --> 00:39:46,000 So I think the interaction is not actually part of the game. 837 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:46,600 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 838 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,243 specifically to do with game mechanics, whereas interacting 839 00:39:49,243 --> 00:39:52,250 is to do with something which is-- 840 00:39:52,250 --> 00:39:54,980 so maybe acting is something mechanical, whereas 841 00:39:54,980 --> 00:39:58,380 interacting is something dynamics-related? 842 00:39:58,380 --> 00:39:59,310 Or? 843 00:39:59,310 --> 00:40:06,480 AUDIENCE: Well, I see is as like, acting is sort of like a 844 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,000 single direction with mechanics. 845 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,400 So, for example, the mechanic there is being able to hit 846 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,380 somebody in the head with your [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 847 00:40:15,380 --> 00:40:19,280 Whereas interacting would be the case where you are hitting 848 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,710 each other on each others' heads with your swords. 849 00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:24,840 Which is an entirely different thing. 850 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,290 And it's more of a competitive thing rather than the, I just 851 00:40:28,290 --> 00:40:30,540 want to make you angry. 852 00:40:30,540 --> 00:40:33,110 AUDIENCE: I think the unidirectional perspective 853 00:40:33,110 --> 00:40:34,345 makes sense. 854 00:40:34,345 --> 00:40:35,436 You could think of it as going with the 855 00:40:35,436 --> 00:40:36,570 hitting on the head example. 856 00:40:36,570 --> 00:40:38,870 If I'm acting, then I care that information 857 00:40:38,870 --> 00:40:40,080 is flowing one way. 858 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:41,970 I am dealing damage to you. 859 00:40:41,970 --> 00:40:45,610 If I'm interacting, I'm curious as to how that is 860 00:40:45,610 --> 00:40:48,483 computed and what that means for me in return. 861 00:40:48,483 --> 00:40:50,060 Does that make sense? 862 00:40:50,060 --> 00:40:51,190 AUDIENCE: So like, if I'm really bad at terminology-- 863 00:40:51,190 --> 00:40:52,942 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 864 00:40:52,942 --> 00:40:56,692 AUDIENCE: A bunch of other examples of things that you do 865 00:40:56,692 --> 00:40:59,320 to maximize interacting versus acting. 866 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,430 There might be interesting examples of things like make 867 00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:04,470 super [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 868 00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:06,480 And then the acting ones are like, make [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 869 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,950 PROFESSOR: So, in the context of a MUD, a puzzle is often 870 00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:18,670 like a door. 871 00:41:18,670 --> 00:41:20,945 So you've got to solve this puzzle if you want to get into 872 00:41:20,945 --> 00:41:21,410 a new area. 873 00:41:21,410 --> 00:41:24,530 Because that's really the only thing-- 874 00:41:24,530 --> 00:41:27,034 sometimes you get your loot. 875 00:41:27,034 --> 00:41:34,840 And the idea behind that is, you are either privileging it 876 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,362 to getting people to talk with each other more and socialize 877 00:41:39,362 --> 00:41:40,670 with each other more. 878 00:41:40,670 --> 00:41:42,600 Or you're privileging it to getting people to look at the 879 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,330 world more, see more of the world and 880 00:41:46,330 --> 00:41:48,330 understand how it works. 881 00:41:48,330 --> 00:41:52,040 Then in a sense, you don't want to put too many barriers 882 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:56,320 between the people who've been in for a very long time and 883 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,460 the people who just started playing, the people who are in 884 00:42:00,460 --> 00:42:02,498 one area of the world and people in 885 00:42:02,498 --> 00:42:03,120 another area of the world. 886 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:03,810 You kind of want quick flow. 887 00:42:03,810 --> 00:42:07,593 So in MUDs, that's one thing where the definition of 888 00:42:07,593 --> 00:42:09,525 puzzles is very specific. 889 00:42:09,525 --> 00:42:13,389 It's like, but I have to move this set of levers. 890 00:42:13,389 --> 00:42:14,390 AUDIENCE: Another point that I've found that's really 891 00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:18,690 strange, because I would expect an explorer, who is 892 00:42:18,690 --> 00:42:22,440 supposed to be a world interacting person to really 893 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,430 enjoy deep puzzles, which reward them for knowing more 894 00:42:26,430 --> 00:42:27,840 about the world. 895 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,080 PROFESSOR: But a problem with puzzles in MUDs is that 896 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,180 they're usually simple solutions. 897 00:42:35,180 --> 00:42:38,920 So there's less pleasure to be found in a very difficult 898 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,635 puzzle, because all that told you was, you just 899 00:42:40,635 --> 00:42:41,530 solved this one thing. 900 00:42:41,530 --> 00:42:44,170 There is still some pleasure there. 901 00:42:44,170 --> 00:42:49,650 The interest that explorers are way more compelled by-- 902 00:42:49,650 --> 00:42:52,040 kind of the latent dynamics-- 903 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,650 is understanding the interaction of how mechanics-- 904 00:42:55,650 --> 00:42:59,180 especially [UNINTELLIGIBLE] in a way that might not have been 905 00:42:59,180 --> 00:43:01,260 originally designed that way. 906 00:43:01,260 --> 00:43:02,303 That's what they're looking for. 907 00:43:02,303 --> 00:43:04,730 They're not looking for, what is the solution that was 908 00:43:04,730 --> 00:43:05,437 designed in the game. 909 00:43:05,437 --> 00:43:07,950 They're looking for, how am I going to get this game to do 910 00:43:07,950 --> 00:43:11,082 something that it might not have been designed to do 911 00:43:11,082 --> 00:43:14,940 originally, but would be cool once I figure it out. 912 00:43:14,940 --> 00:43:17,980 So that, unfortunately-- 913 00:43:17,980 --> 00:43:19,440 you are definitely right. 914 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,660 But that one suffers from the very specific terminology of 915 00:43:22,660 --> 00:43:27,070 what a puzzle is in a MUD, as opposed to the more general 916 00:43:27,070 --> 00:43:30,090 definition of what a puzzle is. 917 00:43:30,090 --> 00:43:34,630 The reason why, at least for achievers, hard puzzles are 918 00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:38,500 very important, because if you make a puzzle that most people 919 00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:41,158 aren't going to be able to get, being able to get that 920 00:43:41,158 --> 00:43:43,910 puzzle gives you some [UNINTELLIGIBLE] status. 921 00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:46,290 Usually some sort of visible reward, even. 922 00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:50,090 You are now in a location not everybody else can get to, or 923 00:43:50,090 --> 00:43:52,251 you now have a piece of equipment 924 00:43:52,251 --> 00:43:53,970 that no-one else has. 925 00:43:53,970 --> 00:44:01,390 Whereas explorers, they will probably have an advantage in 926 00:44:01,390 --> 00:44:03,180 solving difficult puzzles. 927 00:44:03,180 --> 00:44:05,640 But they're not necessarily the sort of thing that makes 928 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,840 them want to interact with the world. 929 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,110 Lots of the mechanics that interact with each other in 930 00:44:12,110 --> 00:44:14,680 and new and interesting ways, are more likely to be 931 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:15,930 interesting to an explorer. 932 00:44:18,580 --> 00:44:21,446 But you're right, acting and interacting are crappy, crappy 933 00:44:21,446 --> 00:44:24,620 terminology sort of thing. 934 00:44:24,620 --> 00:44:27,782 AUDIENCE: Are you talking about how griefers are more 935 00:44:27,782 --> 00:44:31,170 like actors, where they just try to get people to interact 936 00:44:31,170 --> 00:44:34,390 with them, or try to get people to get annoyed by them. 937 00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:36,780 I've definitely seen, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 938 00:44:36,780 --> 00:44:37,490 game design. 939 00:44:37,490 --> 00:44:39,720 But [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 940 00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:40,400 300. 941 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,580 Where we watched a video of griefers in Team Fortress 2, 942 00:44:44,580 --> 00:44:49,410 where there's a certain door where, if they stand in a 943 00:44:49,410 --> 00:44:50,560 certain spot, it won't open. 944 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,610 So this person started making everyone interact. 945 00:44:52,610 --> 00:44:54,700 OK, we're going to play a game today. 946 00:44:54,700 --> 00:44:56,050 If you want to leave, you have to answer correctly. 947 00:44:56,050 --> 00:44:57,460 PROFESSOR: Yeah, what is the capital of-- 948 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:02,930 AUDIENCE: That I see as more of an explorer things. 949 00:45:02,930 --> 00:45:05,855 Like, you bounce some weird combination of the interaction 950 00:45:05,855 --> 00:45:09,320 with the mechanics that allows you to do something new, which 951 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,783 is turn Team Fortress 2 into a game show. 952 00:45:12,783 --> 00:45:14,110 AUDIENCE: It was pretty funny. 953 00:45:14,110 --> 00:45:16,160 AUDIENCE: But people who can't play. 954 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,172 AUDIENCE: Griefers and explorers are a combination of 955 00:45:18,172 --> 00:45:21,952 bottle types, if you're going to be a successful griefer. 956 00:45:26,170 --> 00:45:28,460 PROFESSOR: And that's absolutely true. 957 00:45:28,460 --> 00:45:30,740 If your personality's oriented one way, you may have to 958 00:45:30,740 --> 00:45:33,864 engage with some other behaviors in order to be able 959 00:45:33,864 --> 00:45:37,970 to maximize that core behavior they're looking for. 960 00:45:37,970 --> 00:45:43,385 So there are people who are looking at exploits and trying 961 00:45:43,385 --> 00:45:45,410 to understand how the world works so they can cause 962 00:45:45,410 --> 00:45:48,970 maximum damage and maximum grief to other people. 963 00:45:48,970 --> 00:45:51,090 That's definitely one good way of doing it. 964 00:45:51,090 --> 00:45:54,270 But what I find is that as soon as they find it, they are 965 00:45:54,270 --> 00:45:58,350 not interested in finding more ways until that 966 00:45:58,350 --> 00:45:59,600 first way gets boring. 967 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,110 Or gets fixed. 968 00:46:04,110 --> 00:46:07,715 So, people are going to say, there's a lot of teleporting 969 00:46:07,715 --> 00:46:10,110 you directly in front of a turret, stuff like that. 970 00:46:10,110 --> 00:46:12,815 Teleporting your own teammates in front of a turret, that 971 00:46:12,815 --> 00:46:13,680 sort of thing. 972 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:14,930 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 973 00:46:16,826 --> 00:46:19,644 AUDIENCE: I don't understand. 974 00:46:19,644 --> 00:46:20,956 PROFESSOR: You don't understand? 975 00:46:20,956 --> 00:46:21,630 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 976 00:46:21,630 --> 00:46:22,180 PROFESSOR: It's fun. 977 00:46:22,180 --> 00:46:22,940 AUDIENCE: Griefers. 978 00:46:22,940 --> 00:46:26,250 AUDIENCE: No, it's not. 979 00:46:26,250 --> 00:46:28,590 AUDIENCE: So, I'm going to mess with you. 980 00:46:28,590 --> 00:46:30,750 Just for the hell of it. 981 00:46:30,750 --> 00:46:34,020 AUDIENCE: I remember in Sims Online, an effective way to 982 00:46:34,020 --> 00:46:37,460 grief would be to organize a band of people and arrive on 983 00:46:37,460 --> 00:46:39,210 that property. 984 00:46:39,210 --> 00:46:42,580 Since there was a population limit of 12 people or 985 00:46:42,580 --> 00:46:44,610 something on any given lot. 986 00:46:44,610 --> 00:46:47,740 In that lot, was a business that required a lot of people 987 00:46:47,740 --> 00:46:48,460 to come through. 988 00:46:48,460 --> 00:46:50,220 And then you just had 12 of your people 989 00:46:50,220 --> 00:46:52,220 show up and mill around. 990 00:46:52,220 --> 00:46:53,660 And say a lot of profanities. 991 00:46:53,660 --> 00:46:56,323 You could tag the place and lock it up and no-one else 992 00:46:56,323 --> 00:46:58,078 could go there and visit it, sometimes including owners and 993 00:46:58,078 --> 00:46:58,360 stuff like that. 994 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,475 It was very frustrating. 995 00:47:00,475 --> 00:47:04,430 PROFESSOR: In fact, some of the behavior they did got 996 00:47:04,430 --> 00:47:06,057 towards organized crime level. 997 00:47:06,057 --> 00:47:11,145 Actually, I mean it wasn't real crime, it was virtual. 998 00:47:11,145 --> 00:47:14,290 But there are actually a good number of articles about the 999 00:47:14,290 --> 00:47:16,240 Sims Online mafia. 1000 00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:21,100 Because that game had so much built in for-- 1001 00:47:21,100 --> 00:47:23,140 actually for socializers-- 1002 00:47:23,140 --> 00:47:25,550 to be able to communicate, express themselves. 1003 00:47:25,550 --> 00:47:28,000 I mean if you played the original Sims, there's a whole 1004 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,372 range of different expressive things that you can do to 1005 00:47:30,372 --> 00:47:33,810 communicate how you're feeling and to be able 1006 00:47:33,810 --> 00:47:34,780 to chat with people. 1007 00:47:34,780 --> 00:47:38,320 And someone, I think it might have been Maxis itself, 1008 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,000 actually charted out the web of 1009 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:41,740 influence of all the players. 1010 00:47:41,740 --> 00:47:46,670 And there was one alpha player who was in charge of 1011 00:47:46,670 --> 00:47:49,240 everything. 1012 00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:55,010 And if she decided that this person wasn't wanted, she 1013 00:47:55,010 --> 00:47:58,750 didn't want, spending too much time [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1014 00:47:58,750 --> 00:48:02,740 because of how it pissed her off or piss one of her friends 1015 00:48:02,740 --> 00:48:05,080 off or something, she'd organize something like that. 1016 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:06,460 Effectively. 1017 00:48:06,460 --> 00:48:09,320 It was called the Sims mafia. 1018 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,025 and you get that [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 1019 00:48:15,780 --> 00:48:18,520 And it's kind of interesting to see how different worlds 1020 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:19,918 respond to that. 1021 00:48:19,918 --> 00:48:22,980 Even though in [UNINTELLIGIBLE] which is-- 1022 00:48:22,980 --> 00:48:26,640 actually, one thing I'd like to do is, I'd like to throw 1023 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:29,900 different games up on that chart. 1024 00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:36,060 So I am looking mostly at multiplayer games. 1025 00:48:36,060 --> 00:48:39,470 Preferably online multiplayer games. 1026 00:48:39,470 --> 00:48:42,200 But, and I don't know all the games that are out there. 1027 00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,440 So, I'd like people to call-out games. 1028 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,070 And tell me roughly what I should put up. 1029 00:48:47,070 --> 00:48:50,637 If you disagree, then by all means put up your hand and 1030 00:48:50,637 --> 00:48:52,700 suggest that it should be moved. 1031 00:48:52,700 --> 00:48:55,390 AUDIENCE: Minecraft should go definitely toward world 1032 00:48:55,390 --> 00:48:58,394 interaction andexplorer type. 1033 00:48:58,394 --> 00:48:59,795 AUDIENCE: Like, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1034 00:48:59,795 --> 00:49:03,070 far, far. 1035 00:49:03,070 --> 00:49:03,910 AUDIENCE: So what is Minecraft? 1036 00:49:03,910 --> 00:49:07,093 I've heard of it, I just don't know what exactly it's about. 1037 00:49:07,093 --> 00:49:08,837 AUDIENCE: You basically go around mining things and 1038 00:49:08,837 --> 00:49:11,460 creating objects, and you can create your own worlds. 1039 00:49:11,460 --> 00:49:13,080 AUDIENCE: So it's like-- 1040 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:14,240 I guess? 1041 00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:17,530 AUDIENCE: EVE is definitely world interacting as well. 1042 00:49:17,530 --> 00:49:18,050 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1043 00:49:18,050 --> 00:49:20,840 AUDIENCE: So that's same as EVE. 1044 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,985 AUDIENCE: I would say EVE is also player to player 1045 00:49:22,985 --> 00:49:24,206 interacting. 1046 00:49:24,206 --> 00:49:25,345 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1047 00:49:25,345 --> 00:49:27,910 AUDIENCE: I'd see it as in the middle, then. 1048 00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:30,000 AUDIENCE: In EVE you have to form corporations with bunches 1049 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,450 of people in order to do anything. 1050 00:49:33,450 --> 00:49:34,440 PROFESSOR: That's true. 1051 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:39,403 You have to be really good in your social skills, actually. 1052 00:49:39,403 --> 00:49:40,401 It's one of the games that's most ruthlessly 1053 00:49:40,401 --> 00:49:41,651 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1054 00:49:43,730 --> 00:49:44,050 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1055 00:49:44,050 --> 00:49:46,110 AUDIENCE: If you interact with the people 1056 00:49:46,110 --> 00:49:47,340 and the world a lot. 1057 00:49:47,340 --> 00:49:50,800 AUDIENCE: I think it's more strongly player attracting and 1058 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,080 is world attracting than most games. 1059 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:54,330 PROFESSOR: You cannot [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1060 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:01,770 AUDIENCE: But there's also a huge amount of achievement and 1061 00:50:01,770 --> 00:50:03,700 player versus player conflict in this kind of stuff. 1062 00:50:03,700 --> 00:50:04,776 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1063 00:50:04,776 --> 00:50:08,190 AUDIENCE: You can die far down the interacting scale. 1064 00:50:08,190 --> 00:50:10,650 I mean, consider things in Second Life instead. 1065 00:50:10,650 --> 00:50:14,560 Which would be way further down the interacting end of 1066 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:18,218 the spectrum than EVE Online, surely. 1067 00:50:18,218 --> 00:50:20,906 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1068 00:50:20,906 --> 00:50:22,180 AUDIENCE: Assuming that [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1069 00:50:22,180 --> 00:50:23,215 AUDIENCE: I'm not sure it's hacking. 1070 00:50:23,215 --> 00:50:25,080 Like, PvP is the opposite of [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1071 00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:26,606 AUDIENCE: I mean it's not-- 1072 00:50:26,606 --> 00:50:28,240 AUDIENCE: I think it's definitely player interaction 1073 00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:30,220 more than player action. 1074 00:50:30,220 --> 00:50:32,040 AUDIENCE: Yeah, I believe it's interaction. 1075 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:33,950 AUDIENCE: Something like having PvP tournaments, I 1076 00:50:33,950 --> 00:50:36,690 think, would be definitely a lot of interaction. 1077 00:50:36,690 --> 00:50:37,100 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1078 00:50:37,100 --> 00:50:40,570 I think that's the distinction between griefing and like 1079 00:50:40,570 --> 00:50:42,075 people fighting each other. 1080 00:50:42,075 --> 00:50:43,740 AUDIENCE: Griefing can be an [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1081 00:50:43,740 --> 00:50:47,550 AUDIENCE: What I got from this article is that acting is 1082 00:50:47,550 --> 00:50:50,013 like, I go and kill someone and ha, I killed 1083 00:50:50,013 --> 00:50:50,620 them and that's it. 1084 00:50:50,620 --> 00:50:52,475 Or I go through the world, it's like, I killed a monster, 1085 00:50:52,475 --> 00:50:53,190 I killed a monster. 1086 00:50:53,190 --> 00:50:54,260 And you just have a goal. 1087 00:50:54,260 --> 00:50:55,480 If you want to get the goal instead of 1088 00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,210 diverting from your goal. 1089 00:50:58,210 --> 00:50:58,800 So, I don't know. 1090 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:02,710 I definitely think griefing can be hugely interactive. 1091 00:51:02,710 --> 00:51:04,491 But there could be a whole bunch of-- 1092 00:51:04,491 --> 00:51:08,210 in EVE if you infiltrate someone's company and you-- 1093 00:51:08,210 --> 00:51:10,310 AUDIENCE: Steal ten thousand dollars' worth of their money. 1094 00:51:10,310 --> 00:51:10,660 AUDIENCE: Exactly. 1095 00:51:10,660 --> 00:51:13,520 That's hugely interactive griefing. 1096 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,280 AUDIENCE: I don't think that's griefing. 1097 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:16,500 AUDIENCE: Consider Team Fortress, right. 1098 00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:18,410 There's Team Fortress player interaction. 1099 00:51:18,410 --> 00:51:21,910 Because that means it's a socializer game. 1100 00:51:21,910 --> 00:51:24,020 PROFESSOR: I personally do not think Team Fortress falls 1101 00:51:24,020 --> 00:51:27,850 under player interacting with team. 1102 00:51:27,850 --> 00:51:29,240 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1103 00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:32,121 AUDIENCE: But Left for Dead is. 1104 00:51:32,121 --> 00:51:35,050 PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1105 00:51:35,050 --> 00:51:35,940 AUDIENCE: There's definitely interaction happening-- 1106 00:51:35,940 --> 00:51:36,340 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1107 00:51:36,340 --> 00:51:38,482 AUDIENCE: I'd say probably more-- it depends on what 1108 00:51:38,482 --> 00:51:38,880 you're doing 1109 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,600 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1110 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,170 AUDIENCE: So with Left for Dead you can play-- you're 1111 00:51:43,170 --> 00:51:46,160 interacting, but then you're also online and you can go 1112 00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,840 against other players who are actually the 1113 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:50,983 zombies, against you. 1114 00:51:50,983 --> 00:51:51,406 PROFESSOR: Right. 1115 00:51:51,406 --> 00:51:55,370 So let's talk about the basic [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1116 00:51:55,370 --> 00:52:02,430 AUDIENCE: So the basic, most common mode is going to be 1117 00:52:02,430 --> 00:52:04,370 four players playing cooperatively 1118 00:52:04,370 --> 00:52:07,440 against the game world. 1119 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,860 AUDIENCE: That's just interacting with the world. 1120 00:52:09,860 --> 00:52:17,790 AUDIENCE: And there is a lot of interaction that goes on 1121 00:52:17,790 --> 00:52:20,808 between players, because you cannot basically survive 1122 00:52:20,808 --> 00:52:22,640 unless you get each others' backs. 1123 00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:24,080 AUDIENCE: So I would say it's-- 1124 00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,440 AUDIENCE: And there's built-in functions 1125 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:27,410 to help other people. 1126 00:52:27,410 --> 00:52:29,860 So someone might get back up on a ledge and he'll be 1127 00:52:29,860 --> 00:52:31,130 holding on and you have to pull him back up. 1128 00:52:31,130 --> 00:52:31,410 AUDIENCE: Or smokers. 1129 00:52:31,410 --> 00:52:34,730 AUDIENCE: At the same time, there's also an intelligent 1130 00:52:34,730 --> 00:52:38,830 engine that plans that level for you and places zombies 1131 00:52:38,830 --> 00:52:43,490 specifically to maintain you in a state of nervousness. 1132 00:52:43,490 --> 00:52:45,830 And so it's different every single time you play. 1133 00:52:45,830 --> 00:52:49,230 So those balance out and probably place it somewhere in 1134 00:52:49,230 --> 00:52:49,590 the middle. 1135 00:52:49,590 --> 00:52:52,501 Maybe a little bit more player biased than world biased, 1136 00:52:52,501 --> 00:52:55,500 because you really have to stick together. 1137 00:52:55,500 --> 00:52:58,250 PROFESSOR: So, it's weird because it's almost like, you 1138 00:52:58,250 --> 00:52:59,870 want to have like a plane. 1139 00:52:59,870 --> 00:53:01,120 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1140 00:53:03,725 --> 00:53:05,460 AUDIENCE: I think the big problem with this sort of 1141 00:53:05,460 --> 00:53:08,650 graph is that you can't really necessarily separate games 1142 00:53:08,650 --> 00:53:11,570 into one of these quadrants. 1143 00:53:11,570 --> 00:53:12,820 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1144 00:53:15,146 --> 00:53:16,760 PROFESSOR: And that is actually also-- 1145 00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:18,240 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1146 00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:20,450 AUDIENCE: It might be a little more useful to actually draw 1147 00:53:20,450 --> 00:53:25,090 areas within the graph to represent a game, I guess. 1148 00:53:25,090 --> 00:53:29,230 Draw the area that encompasses all the pieces the game 1149 00:53:29,230 --> 00:53:30,490 represents. 1150 00:53:30,490 --> 00:53:31,740 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1151 00:53:34,756 --> 00:53:39,560 PROFESSOR: Like Halo co-op and Halo multiplayer, and player 1152 00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:40,810 versus player. 1153 00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,075 That will probably be a little refinement, if I create some 1154 00:53:47,075 --> 00:53:50,160 sort of scatter chart or Venn diagram. 1155 00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:51,540 AUDIENCE: Because I could definitely see there being a 1156 00:53:51,540 --> 00:53:54,450 game where there's a lot of acting on the world and 1157 00:53:54,450 --> 00:53:55,760 interacting with players. 1158 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,610 And if you're just separating these into distinct points, 1159 00:53:58,610 --> 00:54:01,400 that isn't possible with this graph. 1160 00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,810 PROFESSOR: So that's another problem, is the assumption 1161 00:54:03,810 --> 00:54:08,980 that acting and interacting are-- 1162 00:54:08,980 --> 00:54:10,235 AUDIENCE: Mutually exclusive? 1163 00:54:10,235 --> 00:54:11,720 PROFESSOR: They're mutually opposite. 1164 00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:12,970 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1165 00:54:16,670 --> 00:54:18,318 Do people generally accept this? 1166 00:54:18,318 --> 00:54:18,766 AUDIENCE: No, no. 1167 00:54:18,766 --> 00:54:20,900 They do less acting than interacting. 1168 00:54:20,900 --> 00:54:23,610 AUDIENCE: If you just warp space, then you can have 1169 00:54:23,610 --> 00:54:24,000 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1170 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:25,250 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1171 00:54:27,745 --> 00:54:30,655 AUDIENCE: I think if you had different values for player 1172 00:54:30,655 --> 00:54:32,110 world interacting and acting would 1173 00:54:32,110 --> 00:54:34,540 necessarily be connected. 1174 00:54:34,540 --> 00:54:38,661 I think EVE definitely in world is very high, and in 1175 00:54:38,661 --> 00:54:40,736 player is very high. 1176 00:54:40,736 --> 00:54:43,050 PROFESSOR: World very high, player very high. 1177 00:54:43,050 --> 00:54:45,740 But I mean, player is interacting and world is 1178 00:54:45,740 --> 00:54:46,650 acting on the world. 1179 00:54:46,650 --> 00:54:48,820 AUDIENCE: On the world still. 1180 00:54:48,820 --> 00:54:49,870 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1181 00:54:49,870 --> 00:54:52,210 PROFESSOR: I mean, because-- 1182 00:54:52,210 --> 00:54:55,100 you're exploring the world spatially a lot. 1183 00:54:55,100 --> 00:54:58,250 Are you exploring the systems of the world a lot? 1184 00:54:58,250 --> 00:55:00,571 Or are you really exploring the systems set up by people? 1185 00:55:00,571 --> 00:55:02,860 AUDIENCE: That's true. 1186 00:55:02,860 --> 00:55:07,930 PROFESSOR: The nice thing about things like EVE Online-- 1187 00:55:07,930 --> 00:55:08,660 also [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1188 00:55:08,660 --> 00:55:13,958 EVE Online [UNINTELLIGIBLE] game basically, where you 1189 00:55:13,958 --> 00:55:15,260 start off as a captain. 1190 00:55:15,260 --> 00:55:16,700 Correct me if I'm wrong with this. 1191 00:55:16,700 --> 00:55:19,354 AUDIENCE: It's a super-sandbox game. 1192 00:55:19,354 --> 00:55:22,198 PROFESSOR: But for the most part, you're 1193 00:55:22,198 --> 00:55:24,094 traveling in space. 1194 00:55:24,094 --> 00:55:26,830 AUDIENCE: Can you get out of your ship and walk on foot? 1195 00:55:26,830 --> 00:55:27,470 AUDIENCE: Have they added that, because I know they 1196 00:55:27,470 --> 00:55:30,000 wanted to add an expansion where you could actually walk 1197 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:31,140 on planets. 1198 00:55:31,140 --> 00:55:32,950 Last time I heard, they hadn't. 1199 00:55:32,950 --> 00:55:34,220 AUDIENCE: Last I heard they hadn't. 1200 00:55:34,220 --> 00:55:37,370 AUDIENCE: Dust 66 or something like that. 1201 00:55:37,370 --> 00:55:37,895 PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 1202 00:55:37,895 --> 00:55:40,340 AUDIENCE: It's a separate game. 1203 00:55:40,340 --> 00:55:42,560 PROFESSOR: No, you're traveling through space. 1204 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,030 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1205 00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:48,895 But the whole idea is that it's all built around this 1206 00:55:48,895 --> 00:55:50,875 economy, where [UNINTELLIGIBLE] mining, 1207 00:55:50,875 --> 00:55:52,990 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1208 00:55:52,990 --> 00:55:53,285 cash. 1209 00:55:53,285 --> 00:55:57,110 But the real power in the game comes when players start to 1210 00:55:57,110 --> 00:55:59,040 ally with each other. 1211 00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,980 Form armadas, form trade groups. 1212 00:56:01,980 --> 00:56:06,880 Form areas that you can patrol and control. 1213 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,325 And areas where you want to agree that if you don't get 1214 00:56:09,325 --> 00:56:13,689 along with the people who are in control of this space, you 1215 00:56:13,689 --> 00:56:14,516 will die when you fly in there. 1216 00:56:14,516 --> 00:56:18,484 And the only thing that's making that happen are other 1217 00:56:18,484 --> 00:56:20,964 players deciding that this social contract is 1218 00:56:20,964 --> 00:56:21,460 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1219 00:56:21,460 --> 00:56:24,436 So it's pretty damn amazing. 1220 00:56:24,436 --> 00:56:27,466 What some folks were talking about earlier was a big story 1221 00:56:27,466 --> 00:56:30,680 about how, basically, one person got into a very, very 1222 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,755 powerful position in one of these clans. 1223 00:56:33,755 --> 00:56:35,540 And decided to defect. 1224 00:56:35,540 --> 00:56:42,360 Take a majority of one clan's financial resources with him. 1225 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:46,090 And-- remember, this is a fairly modern massive 1226 00:56:46,090 --> 00:56:47,330 multiplayer online game. 1227 00:56:47,330 --> 00:56:50,370 In-game assets can now be traded for real money. 1228 00:56:50,370 --> 00:56:51,350 AUDIENCE: It's illegal so that-- 1229 00:56:51,350 --> 00:56:52,000 PROFESSOR: It's illegal. 1230 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:52,880 AUDIENCE: Like, in-game. 1231 00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,430 So you can get your account banned. 1232 00:56:55,430 --> 00:56:59,000 So what happened, if I'm talking about the one that 1233 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,150 you're talking about. 1234 00:57:00,150 --> 00:57:03,080 Someone got to a really powerful place in 1235 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:04,110 this banking clan. 1236 00:57:04,110 --> 00:57:06,400 And then took all of their assets and 1237 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:07,510 traded it for real money. 1238 00:57:07,510 --> 00:57:11,130 So he got $10,000 by selling it off. 1239 00:57:11,130 --> 00:57:13,070 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1240 00:57:13,070 --> 00:57:16,326 AUDIENCE: One was a guy who infiltrated the clan 1241 00:57:16,326 --> 00:57:17,763 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] that much money. 1242 00:57:17,763 --> 00:57:20,300 One was like a parent who was going into financial trouble 1243 00:57:20,300 --> 00:57:24,285 and held a fifth of the assets of the major bank, and cashed 1244 00:57:24,285 --> 00:57:28,575 it in for $6,000 to help pay off part of his house and his 1245 00:57:28,575 --> 00:57:29,988 kids' medical bills. 1246 00:57:29,988 --> 00:57:32,350 And then posted an apology on the board and quit the game. 1247 00:57:32,350 --> 00:57:34,360 AUDIENCE: I thought he got banned from the game. 1248 00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:35,620 AUDIENCE: He was banned from the game, but he 1249 00:57:35,620 --> 00:57:38,494 also quit the game. 1250 00:57:38,494 --> 00:57:40,949 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1251 00:57:40,949 --> 00:57:42,225 AUDIENCE: He was like, I'm sorry, everybody, but this is 1252 00:57:42,225 --> 00:57:44,295 kind of important. 1253 00:57:44,295 --> 00:57:46,510 AUDIENCE: The amazing one was the guy who actually 1254 00:57:46,510 --> 00:57:51,170 infiltrated the company and just took it down as a 1255 00:57:51,170 --> 00:57:52,720 years-long operation-- 1256 00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:53,328 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] thought he was a 1257 00:57:53,328 --> 00:57:54,070 friend and all that. 1258 00:57:54,070 --> 00:57:55,550 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1259 00:57:55,550 --> 00:57:57,870 Trying to get in and then managed to take down this 1260 00:57:57,870 --> 00:58:00,060 gigantic in-game corporation. 1261 00:58:00,060 --> 00:58:01,318 AUDIENCE: How many active players are 1262 00:58:01,318 --> 00:58:02,892 there on EVE Online? 1263 00:58:02,892 --> 00:58:04,620 A hundred thousand? 1264 00:58:04,620 --> 00:58:04,846 AUDIENCE: No. 1265 00:58:04,846 --> 00:58:07,400 I feel like the active players are-- 1266 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:07,990 PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1267 00:58:07,990 --> 00:58:11,230 AUDIENCE: At any moment? 1268 00:58:11,230 --> 00:58:14,960 PROFESSOR: No, I mean active current players who have 1269 00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:16,720 active accounts. 1270 00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:18,070 AUDIENCE: Do they have new players 1271 00:58:18,070 --> 00:58:19,100 arriving regularly, or-- 1272 00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:20,360 AUDIENCE: Occasionally. 1273 00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:21,926 AUDIENCE: They don't have a game that's been-- 1274 00:58:21,926 --> 00:58:24,625 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1275 00:58:24,625 --> 00:58:25,460 AUDIENCE: It's like a ridiculous 1276 00:58:25,460 --> 00:58:26,870 learning curve, yeah. 1277 00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:29,220 AUDIENCE: It's like four months or something. 1278 00:58:29,220 --> 00:58:31,186 It's insane. 1279 00:58:31,186 --> 00:58:33,080 PROFESSOR: But the interesting thing about the particular 1280 00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:36,278 case where someone infiltrated, took all the 1281 00:58:36,278 --> 00:58:41,710 money and basically decimated this clan deliberately, was 1282 00:58:41,710 --> 00:58:44,540 that that person [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1283 00:58:44,540 --> 00:58:45,790 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1284 00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:48,960 AUDIENCE: The most recent one that I read about, 1285 00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:51,810 theoretically had in the tens of thousands of US dollars of 1286 00:58:51,810 --> 00:58:54,910 assets in the game and did not cash in any of it for real 1287 00:58:54,910 --> 00:58:57,385 money because there is no authorized mechanism. 1288 00:58:57,385 --> 00:59:00,050 And the article that I read, basically, the end note was, 1289 00:59:00,050 --> 00:59:01,170 no-one knows what he can do with it. 1290 00:59:01,170 --> 00:59:05,420 He's technically rich but there's no legal mechanism 1291 00:59:05,420 --> 00:59:07,330 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1292 00:59:07,330 --> 00:59:09,245 I don't think he got banned at all because-- 1293 00:59:09,245 --> 00:59:10,495 PROFESSOR: Its part of the game. 1294 00:59:12,890 --> 00:59:15,740 At least for the definition of EVE. 1295 00:59:15,740 --> 00:59:19,790 Stories like that tend to have earned its 1296 00:59:19,790 --> 00:59:20,470 reputation in a way. 1297 00:59:20,470 --> 00:59:23,820 This is lawless in space. 1298 00:59:23,820 --> 00:59:27,315 We're trying to encourage this kind of player to player. 1299 00:59:27,315 --> 00:59:29,215 And [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1300 00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:34,466 So I'm not entirely sure if [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1301 00:59:34,466 --> 00:59:34,902 griefing. 1302 00:59:34,902 --> 00:59:37,580 It was an incredibly smart tactical-- 1303 00:59:37,580 --> 00:59:39,710 AUDIENCE: See, I would not call that griefing. 1304 00:59:39,710 --> 00:59:44,110 It may have been done to annoy the people who were running 1305 00:59:44,110 --> 00:59:45,450 the company that he took down. 1306 00:59:45,450 --> 00:59:48,750 But see it as exploration. 1307 00:59:48,750 --> 00:59:50,500 I'm going to try and-- 1308 00:59:50,500 --> 00:59:52,080 it's [UNINTELLIGIBLE] player interaction. 1309 00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:54,500 PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1310 00:59:54,500 --> 00:59:54,950 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1311 00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:57,080 AUDIENCE: I started a major corporation all by myself. 1312 00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:58,420 AUDIENCE: Yeah, might actually be-- 1313 00:59:58,420 --> 01:00:00,900 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1314 01:00:00,900 --> 01:00:02,940 AUDIENCE: Do you put that on your resume? 1315 01:00:02,940 --> 01:00:05,340 Single-handedly [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1316 01:00:05,340 --> 01:00:07,050 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] been hired by a lawyer. 1317 01:00:07,050 --> 01:00:08,300 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1318 01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:13,250 PROFESSOR: So, what I would actually 1319 01:00:13,250 --> 01:00:15,940 like to end this with-- 1320 01:00:15,940 --> 01:00:18,280 we've got about 15 minutes. 1321 01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:19,545 Is to spend some time-- 1322 01:00:19,545 --> 01:00:21,470 I would say, how many of you have we got? 1323 01:00:21,470 --> 01:00:24,793 One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 1324 01:00:24,793 --> 01:00:28,290 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. 1325 01:00:28,290 --> 01:00:30,100 So, groups of four. 1326 01:00:30,100 --> 01:00:33,175 And what I'd like folks to do-- 1327 01:00:33,175 --> 01:00:34,425 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] -- 1328 01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,610 I'd like folks to come up with other axes. 1329 01:00:41,610 --> 01:00:46,110 Not necessarily anything having to do with 1330 01:00:46,110 --> 01:00:46,920 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1331 01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:52,264 Give me two things that you feel are diametrically opposed 1332 01:00:52,264 --> 01:00:56,580 but in describing a game, or any series of games. 1333 01:00:56,580 --> 01:00:59,180 You can place games on other sub-axes. 1334 01:00:59,180 --> 01:01:04,076 If we have time, we can talk about an attitude difference. 1335 01:01:04,076 --> 01:01:08,230 But something to help describe two people, OK, this game is 1336 01:01:08,230 --> 01:01:11,172 on the hard extreme of one, this game's on the hard 1337 01:01:11,172 --> 01:01:13,630 extreme of the other. 1338 01:01:13,630 --> 01:01:16,860 The goal here is to come up with terms that will help you 1339 01:01:16,860 --> 01:01:22,160 identify who this game might be target towards. 1340 01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:24,950 What kind of player might this game be targeting? 1341 01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:28,430 Not necessarily using Bartle's terminology at all. 1342 01:01:28,430 --> 01:01:30,504 Bartle's terminology, as we have said, is kind of weak, so 1343 01:01:30,504 --> 01:01:36,015 let's throw out some other words to 1344 01:01:36,015 --> 01:01:37,970 describe games already. 1345 01:01:37,970 --> 01:01:41,486 If that fails, because you haven't really thought about 1346 01:01:41,486 --> 01:01:44,150 it, to come up with some new words. 1347 01:01:44,150 --> 01:01:45,686 Real game-ish words. 1348 01:01:45,686 --> 01:01:46,936 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1349 01:02:08,850 --> 01:02:10,942 AUDIENCE: Random versus strategy. 1350 01:02:10,942 --> 01:02:12,192 PROFESSOR: Oh, very good. 1351 01:02:18,110 --> 01:02:20,735 AUDIENCE: Original versus copy. 1352 01:02:20,735 --> 01:02:21,985 PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 1353 01:02:29,150 --> 01:02:34,100 I'd rather use more chance or random to get the point across 1354 01:02:34,100 --> 01:02:35,090 pretty clearly. 1355 01:02:35,090 --> 01:02:36,590 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1356 01:02:36,590 --> 01:02:36,950 AUDIENCE: Right. 1357 01:02:36,950 --> 01:02:41,220 So I think that axis should be random, deterministic and/or 1358 01:02:41,220 --> 01:02:43,970 reactive and deliberative. 1359 01:02:43,970 --> 01:02:46,390 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1360 01:02:46,390 --> 01:02:48,770 AUDIENCE: It's fancy. 1361 01:02:48,770 --> 01:02:51,175 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1362 01:02:51,175 --> 01:02:52,630 PROFESSOR: Say that one again? 1363 01:02:52,630 --> 01:02:53,600 AUDIENCE: Reactive. 1364 01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,034 AUDIENCE: So reactive and delibrative. 1365 01:02:56,034 --> 01:02:58,140 AUDIENCE: Reactive and deliberative. 1366 01:02:58,140 --> 01:02:59,475 AUDIENCE: Or random and deterministic. 1367 01:03:03,500 --> 01:03:04,680 AUDIENCE: So you can definitely still have 1368 01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:06,030 randomness and have strategy. 1369 01:03:06,030 --> 01:03:06,760 AUDIENCE: Right. 1370 01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:09,210 AUDIENCE: But random and deterministic. 1371 01:03:09,210 --> 01:03:12,040 AUDIENCE: They would be somewhere on the axis, right? 1372 01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:14,770 AUDIENCE: So the problem is, you can have incredible amount 1373 01:03:14,770 --> 01:03:18,020 of randomness but if you can just figure out the 1374 01:03:18,020 --> 01:03:19,520 probabilities, you can still have an 1375 01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:21,330 optimum strategy, right? 1376 01:03:21,330 --> 01:03:22,752 AUDIENCE: But then that's less random. 1377 01:03:22,752 --> 01:03:26,720 PROFESSOR: In doing this, you can't have a system that is so 1378 01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:31,336 complex yet deterministic that there's no way you can predict 1379 01:03:31,336 --> 01:03:32,580 what's going to happen next. 1380 01:03:32,580 --> 01:03:32,866 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1381 01:03:32,866 --> 01:03:35,450 Killer robot. 1382 01:03:35,450 --> 01:03:37,775 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1383 01:03:37,775 --> 01:03:40,745 PROFESSOR: It's theoretically possible, but this is-- 1384 01:03:40,745 --> 01:03:41,995 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1385 01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:47,802 AUDIENCE: Player versus system agency? 1386 01:03:47,802 --> 01:03:51,300 PROFESSOR: Player versus-- also system-- 1387 01:03:51,300 --> 01:03:54,270 player versus system agency is kind of your-- 1388 01:03:54,270 --> 01:03:56,370 AUDIENCE: It's distributed. 1389 01:03:56,370 --> 01:03:59,852 PROFESSOR: It's the name of your tactics, right? 1390 01:03:59,852 --> 01:04:00,308 AUDIENCE: Yes. 1391 01:04:00,308 --> 01:04:01,220 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1392 01:04:01,220 --> 01:04:03,580 AUDIENCE: You also had a low learning curve versus high 1393 01:04:03,580 --> 01:04:06,220 learning curve. 1394 01:04:06,220 --> 01:04:10,640 You're definitely not on both ends of that, and-- 1395 01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:12,090 AUDIENCE: Fast versus slow. 1396 01:04:15,990 --> 01:04:18,122 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1397 01:04:18,122 --> 01:04:19,535 AUDIENCE: I like that idea. 1398 01:04:19,535 --> 01:04:21,890 Fast versus slow. 1399 01:04:21,890 --> 01:04:29,570 AUDIENCE: So, another axis you may have was you could call it 1400 01:04:29,570 --> 01:04:35,569 freedom and predetermined paths in the game. 1401 01:04:35,569 --> 01:04:36,550 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1402 01:04:36,550 --> 01:04:37,490 AUDIENCE: Huh? 1403 01:04:37,490 --> 01:04:39,400 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1404 01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,760 AUDIENCE: Freedom versus constraint. 1405 01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:43,980 AUDIENCE: I can't remember the terms, but ludus and pitheus, 1406 01:04:43,980 --> 01:04:44,960 something like that. 1407 01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:47,630 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1408 01:04:47,630 --> 01:04:49,905 PROFESSOR: So one more that I use here often, 1409 01:04:49,905 --> 01:04:51,155 [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 1410 01:04:54,540 --> 01:04:55,790 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1411 01:04:58,810 --> 01:04:59,840 PROFESSOR: 13 hours of Final Fantasy-- 1412 01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:01,340 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1413 01:05:01,340 --> 01:05:02,590 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1414 01:05:08,722 --> 01:05:11,140 AUDIENCE: For 60 hours. 1415 01:05:11,140 --> 01:05:12,390 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1416 01:05:20,076 --> 01:05:24,028 PROFESSOR: Sandbox, I would say, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1417 01:05:24,028 --> 01:05:26,004 is a very broad one. 1418 01:05:26,004 --> 01:05:29,280 It's one that people generally understand as embodying a sort 1419 01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:30,750 of freedom. 1420 01:05:30,750 --> 01:05:33,660 You get to dick around, basically. 1421 01:05:33,660 --> 01:05:36,950 You get to play Grand Theft Auto totally not 1422 01:05:36,950 --> 01:05:39,119 following the storyline. 1423 01:05:39,119 --> 01:05:43,627 And-- actually, it kind of goes on, it becomes a little 1424 01:05:43,627 --> 01:05:45,036 bit less of that, you can get to do , you get to play but 1425 01:05:45,036 --> 01:05:47,970 the whole idea is that that world has ramps everywhere, so 1426 01:05:47,970 --> 01:05:51,350 that you can drive cars and vehicles [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1427 01:05:51,350 --> 01:05:52,940 Anything else? 1428 01:05:52,940 --> 01:05:55,490 AUDIENCE: There's realism versus attraction. 1429 01:05:55,490 --> 01:05:56,750 AUDIENCE: Oooh. 1430 01:05:56,750 --> 01:05:59,090 AUDIENCE: What? 1431 01:05:59,090 --> 01:06:02,310 AUDIENCE: So the difference between EVE Online, for 1432 01:06:02,310 --> 01:06:03,640 example, which is supposed to be very 1433 01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:05,710 realistic, simulating something. 1434 01:06:05,710 --> 01:06:09,750 Whereas poker, for example, is just cards and numbers. 1435 01:06:09,750 --> 01:06:13,190 AUDIENCE: Something on the freedom sandbox versus 1436 01:06:13,190 --> 01:06:15,530 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] on rails, there's a very interesting 1437 01:06:15,530 --> 01:06:19,260 thing in [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 1438 01:06:19,260 --> 01:06:21,530 there's a feature in one of the games where you were told 1439 01:06:21,530 --> 01:06:24,240 you need X amount of money to be able to pay for the ship 1440 01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:25,180 out of here. 1441 01:06:25,180 --> 01:06:27,220 And you're placed in a sort of sandbox environment. 1442 01:06:27,220 --> 01:06:28,174 And you're given-- 1443 01:06:28,174 --> 01:06:30,340 you're not told, but-- 1444 01:06:30,340 --> 01:06:33,528 whatever ways you can think of to make that amount of money. 1445 01:06:33,528 --> 01:06:34,560 The amount of money you need to leave 1446 01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:34,710 that part of the game. 1447 01:06:34,710 --> 01:06:38,060 So it's a predetermined sandbox . 1448 01:06:38,060 --> 01:06:39,190 PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1449 01:06:39,190 --> 01:06:42,190 a lot of adventure games, a lot of roleplaying games, are 1450 01:06:42,190 --> 01:06:44,535 largely [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1451 01:06:44,535 --> 01:06:45,790 areas of freedom. 1452 01:06:45,790 --> 01:06:48,820 Even in a game like Final Fantasy, it is not something 1453 01:06:48,820 --> 01:06:51,980 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] in other games in the series, the story 1454 01:06:51,980 --> 01:06:53,330 is largely predetermined. 1455 01:06:53,330 --> 01:06:58,238 But what you do in combat is very, very fluid. 1456 01:06:58,238 --> 01:07:01,880 And that's kind of like the dichotomy that 1457 01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:02,310 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1458 01:07:02,310 --> 01:07:06,410 Square Enix, or Square in the past, have decided 1459 01:07:06,410 --> 01:07:07,800 that that was OK. 1460 01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:11,990 This helps us cater to people who want some flexibility in 1461 01:07:11,990 --> 01:07:16,090 how they're going to play, by making the combat system fluid 1462 01:07:16,090 --> 01:07:16,825 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1463 01:07:16,825 --> 01:07:17,780 they want. 1464 01:07:17,780 --> 01:07:22,140 But also lets us cater to people who really want that 1465 01:07:22,140 --> 01:07:24,513 long, over-arching, epic narrative. 1466 01:07:24,513 --> 01:07:27,399 And we can only pick one. 1467 01:07:27,399 --> 01:07:29,323 We can't branch [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 1468 01:07:34,614 --> 01:07:36,080 Are there others? 1469 01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:37,160 AUDIENCE: I mean, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1470 01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:38,570 a lot of [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 1471 01:07:42,980 --> 01:07:45,406 puzzle games there's only one way to do it, whereas 1472 01:07:45,406 --> 01:07:47,378 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1473 01:07:47,378 --> 01:07:48,628 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1474 01:07:51,815 --> 01:07:54,491 PROFESSOR: I mean, you could have multiple 1475 01:07:54,491 --> 01:07:56,415 solutions, I guess. 1476 01:07:56,415 --> 01:07:58,339 AUDIENCE: Multiple and single. 1477 01:07:58,339 --> 01:08:01,225 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1478 01:08:01,225 --> 01:08:03,527 PROFESSOR: I'm not so sure if that tells you 1479 01:08:03,527 --> 01:08:05,962 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1480 01:08:05,962 --> 01:08:09,858 if I tell you something about the constraints on 1481 01:08:09,858 --> 01:08:12,293 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] budget of-- 1482 01:08:12,293 --> 01:08:14,241 AUDIENCE: I prefer games that are much more 1483 01:08:14,241 --> 01:08:15,215 [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 1484 01:08:15,215 --> 01:08:18,649 And I guess it goes back to [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1485 01:08:18,649 --> 01:08:20,190 PROFESSOR: Because the interesting thing about 1486 01:08:20,190 --> 01:08:23,735 multiple solutions and single solutions is that multiple 1487 01:08:23,735 --> 01:08:26,620 solutions-- it could be all design. 1488 01:08:26,620 --> 01:08:29,635 I could design in the game-- in fact, now, if you play Deus 1489 01:08:29,635 --> 01:08:34,285 Ex, or any of the sequels, they specifically stated that 1490 01:08:34,285 --> 01:08:38,734 they made this game with multiple solutions in mind. 1491 01:08:38,734 --> 01:08:42,970 And with the data sets to, they designed it so that they 1492 01:08:42,970 --> 01:08:45,243 thought, this puzzle needs to have three solutions. 1493 01:08:45,243 --> 01:08:48,180 And they actually will design an environment for it. 1494 01:08:48,180 --> 01:08:54,010 So, while the game kind of tells us, you get to play with 1495 01:08:54,010 --> 01:08:56,120 the system, you get to figure out how all these things 1496 01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:57,270 combine and come up with solutions on your own. 1497 01:08:57,270 --> 01:09:03,524 Really, they tried to design it so that you have three very 1498 01:09:03,524 --> 01:09:04,460 clear options at any given time. 1499 01:09:04,460 --> 01:09:05,856 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1500 01:09:05,856 --> 01:09:07,790 And so you can have multiple solutions. 1501 01:09:07,790 --> 01:09:12,040 Whereas this is like freedom sandboxing, kind of applies 1502 01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:13,851 not necessarily to design. 1503 01:09:13,851 --> 01:09:17,503 You've got lots of little things that you can do and 1504 01:09:17,503 --> 01:09:20,182 lots of different spaces that you can explore and design. 1505 01:09:20,182 --> 01:09:23,104 It's not like you've got one obstacle and three different 1506 01:09:23,104 --> 01:09:25,052 ways to solve it. 1507 01:09:25,052 --> 01:09:27,324 You've got all kinds of different things that you 1508 01:09:27,324 --> 01:09:27,974 could be doing. 1509 01:09:27,974 --> 01:09:28,960 You could be like [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1510 01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:30,974 So these are different axes. 1511 01:09:30,974 --> 01:09:34,026 I just want to point out that these are different ways of 1512 01:09:34,026 --> 01:09:36,698 doing different things. 1513 01:09:36,698 --> 01:09:40,060 AUDIENCE: You can have, in terms of rule changing games, 1514 01:09:40,060 --> 01:09:41,766 whether it's dynamic rules or static rules. 1515 01:09:41,766 --> 01:09:42,098 AUDIENCE: Hmm. 1516 01:09:42,098 --> 01:09:47,244 So, hyper-dynamic, static, and then [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1517 01:09:52,722 --> 01:09:55,010 PROFESSOR: Are the rule going to change if [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1518 01:09:55,010 --> 01:09:58,042 AUDIENCE: There are some games where the whole point is 1519 01:09:58,042 --> 01:09:59,018 changing rules. 1520 01:09:59,018 --> 01:09:59,994 AUDIENCE: Like Flux. 1521 01:09:59,994 --> 01:10:02,434 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1522 01:10:02,434 --> 01:10:04,800 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1523 01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:06,050 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1524 01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:14,410 AUDIENCE: And assuming basically [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1525 01:10:18,156 --> 01:10:19,647 AUDIENCE: Timescale of decisions. 1526 01:10:19,647 --> 01:10:21,340 PROFESSOR: So, short model? 1527 01:10:21,340 --> 01:10:23,740 AUDIENCE: Yeah, like twitch games versus thought games. 1528 01:10:23,740 --> 01:10:26,354 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] decisions. 1529 01:10:26,354 --> 01:10:28,839 Sort of like that are contemplative and reactive. 1530 01:10:28,839 --> 01:10:31,324 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1531 01:10:31,324 --> 01:10:34,306 PROFESSOR: Are you guys going for basically the same thing. 1532 01:10:34,306 --> 01:10:37,504 Like, reactive means things are coming at you and you have 1533 01:10:37,504 --> 01:10:39,696 to respond really, really quickly. 1534 01:10:39,696 --> 01:10:41,644 Maybe [UNINTELLIGIBLE] about it. 1535 01:10:41,644 --> 01:10:45,540 And deliberative is like a trivia game. 1536 01:10:45,540 --> 01:10:46,790 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1537 01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,280 PROFESSOR: Doesn't necessarily mean that. 1538 01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:53,900 The kind of turn-based game is very fast-paced. 1539 01:10:53,900 --> 01:10:58,202 Because the weight of any given decision is not going to 1540 01:10:58,202 --> 01:10:59,180 be so deep. 1541 01:10:59,180 --> 01:11:02,158 So, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1542 01:11:02,158 --> 01:11:05,602 I'm just going to put this up here because I'm running out 1543 01:11:05,602 --> 01:11:07,078 of space [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1544 01:11:11,020 --> 01:11:14,580 that's one way of describing a game, reactive versus 1545 01:11:14,580 --> 01:11:15,880 deliberative. 1546 01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:17,130 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1547 01:11:19,230 --> 01:11:23,633 I bet you could take two of these and put them on an axis 1548 01:11:23,633 --> 01:11:24,945 and then we could talk about them. 1549 01:11:24,945 --> 01:11:26,860 On a [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1550 01:11:26,860 --> 01:11:30,490 but every once in a while we find a game that 1551 01:11:30,490 --> 01:11:32,320 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1552 01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:33,430 Which is fine. 1553 01:11:33,430 --> 01:11:35,743 Which is part of [UNINTELLIGIBLE] to talk about 1554 01:11:35,743 --> 01:11:36,993 these games. 1555 01:11:38,810 --> 01:11:42,838 These are really, really useful terms. 1556 01:11:42,838 --> 01:11:44,088 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1557 01:11:47,130 --> 01:11:49,454 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1558 01:11:49,454 --> 01:11:50,704 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1559 01:11:54,264 --> 01:11:55,707 PROFESSOR: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1560 01:11:55,707 --> 01:11:59,101 it's a little bit more boxing, it's a little bit more 1561 01:11:59,101 --> 01:12:00,945 restrictive than predetermined. 1562 01:12:00,945 --> 01:12:02,330 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1563 01:12:02,330 --> 01:12:05,350 sandbox and rails are more like [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE]