1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,470 The following content is provided under a Creative 2 00:00:02,470 --> 00:00:03,880 Commons license. 3 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,920 Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare continue to 4 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,570 offer high quality educational resources for free. 5 00:00:10,570 --> 00:00:13,470 To make a donation or view additional materials from 6 00:00:13,470 --> 00:00:17,400 hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare at 7 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:18,650 ocw.mit.edu. 8 00:00:20,810 --> 00:00:24,290 Some content in this audio is not covered under a Creative 9 00:00:24,290 --> 00:00:25,785 Commons license. 10 00:00:25,785 --> 00:00:29,790 For more information, see the course materials on the MIT 11 00:00:29,790 --> 00:00:32,190 OpenCourseWare website. 12 00:00:32,190 --> 00:00:36,620 PROFESSOR: OK, so today, we have a guest lecturer, Clara. 13 00:00:36,620 --> 00:00:41,102 Some of you have probably already taken her class. 14 00:00:41,102 --> 00:00:42,050 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 15 00:00:42,050 --> 00:00:43,472 My current victims. 16 00:00:43,472 --> 00:00:44,894 PROFESSOR: And past victims. 17 00:00:44,894 --> 00:00:46,316 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 18 00:00:46,316 --> 00:00:47,840 PROFESSOR: We'll probably need to do 19 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,786 something about the lights. 20 00:00:50,786 --> 00:00:53,732 [INAUDIBLE]. 21 00:00:53,732 --> 00:00:56,200 I'm sorry, I'm sorry. 22 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,180 I'm still operating on Tylenol and caffeine. 23 00:00:59,180 --> 00:01:03,950 So today we're going to talk about stories in games. 24 00:01:03,950 --> 00:01:07,690 And Clara teaches not just the Intro to Video Game Studies 25 00:01:07,690 --> 00:01:08,955 class, but also the Writing for Video Games 26 00:01:08,955 --> 00:01:11,320 class in the spring. 27 00:01:11,320 --> 00:01:16,284 I wanted her to come in and bring her expertise because 28 00:01:16,284 --> 00:01:17,588 she's [UNINTELLIGIBLE] probably a 29 00:01:17,588 --> 00:01:19,218 lot more than I have. 30 00:01:22,641 --> 00:01:24,597 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Hello, perfect. 31 00:01:24,597 --> 00:01:25,847 [INAUDIBLE]. 32 00:01:28,020 --> 00:01:31,622 So yeah, Philip asked me to come here and talk about 33 00:01:31,622 --> 00:01:35,632 stories in games, and as far as I remember, he said you 34 00:01:35,632 --> 00:01:38,250 guys had to read two articles for today. 35 00:01:38,250 --> 00:01:40,476 Chapter four in [INAUDIBLE] 36 00:01:40,476 --> 00:01:45,859 and Soren Johnson's Theme is Not Meaning. 37 00:01:45,859 --> 00:01:48,853 Didn't I [INAUDIBLE], too? 38 00:01:48,853 --> 00:01:49,851 PROFESSOR: Yes. 39 00:01:49,851 --> 00:01:51,348 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: And he's late, OK. 40 00:01:51,348 --> 00:01:51,847 PROFESSOR: Shh! 41 00:01:51,847 --> 00:01:53,843 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: [LAUGHS] 42 00:01:53,843 --> 00:01:57,085 Anyway, so preparing this has been kind 43 00:01:57,085 --> 00:01:59,590 of interesting because-- 44 00:01:59,590 --> 00:02:04,295 I thought about this quite a bit because there's this focus 45 00:02:04,295 --> 00:02:08,820 in my research studying how games and stories can be 46 00:02:08,820 --> 00:02:09,590 brought together. 47 00:02:09,590 --> 00:02:11,870 What does it mean to have a story in a game? 48 00:02:11,870 --> 00:02:14,260 Where do we put the story? 49 00:02:14,260 --> 00:02:16,700 But the interesting challenge was thinking, well, the guys 50 00:02:16,700 --> 00:02:19,970 are working mostly on non-visual games. 51 00:02:19,970 --> 00:02:24,320 And what do stories have to do with non-fictional games. 52 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,690 So here what I'm going to need is your input, because you 53 00:02:27,690 --> 00:02:30,820 guys have been playing all these board games, card games, 54 00:02:30,820 --> 00:02:34,700 and I want a bit of your input of what you think. 55 00:02:34,700 --> 00:02:40,260 How you think these concepts apply to non-digital games, 56 00:02:40,260 --> 00:02:44,110 because the part of digital games I can do pretty 57 00:02:44,110 --> 00:02:44,365 confidently. 58 00:02:44,365 --> 00:02:47,710 But I don't know as much about board games or card games. 59 00:02:47,710 --> 00:02:48,995 So I need your expertise. 60 00:02:48,995 --> 00:02:50,865 This is why you guys are here. 61 00:02:50,865 --> 00:02:54,160 So the first thing that I wanted to ask you about is 62 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,350 that we have two different meetings, and one is sort of 63 00:02:57,350 --> 00:03:00,320 about fiction and the other is sort of about theme. 64 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,666 But what is the fiction of a game? 65 00:03:03,666 --> 00:03:04,916 I turn it to you. 66 00:03:07,860 --> 00:03:11,816 AUDIENCE: The fiction of a game is, well, whatever you 67 00:03:11,816 --> 00:03:12,700 want it to be. 68 00:03:12,700 --> 00:03:16,564 It could be the characters in a digital game. 69 00:03:16,564 --> 00:03:18,500 It could be a real environment, but you just have 70 00:03:18,500 --> 00:03:18,920 fictional characters. 71 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:23,670 It could be an environment that may not exist. 72 00:03:23,670 --> 00:03:27,310 It's pretty much up to the designer to figure out what 73 00:03:27,310 --> 00:03:28,930 they want to-- 74 00:03:28,930 --> 00:03:31,850 like with [INAUDIBLE] be in the game that are real, or if 75 00:03:31,850 --> 00:03:35,841 they want it to be fiction. 76 00:03:35,841 --> 00:03:39,400 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Well, there's something there, but 77 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:45,990 it might be a bit more intuitive than that. 78 00:03:45,990 --> 00:03:47,236 I think that you're on the right track, yes. 79 00:03:47,236 --> 00:03:49,600 AUDIENCE: I'd say it's the setting or the universe in 80 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,680 which the user perceives the events of the game to take 81 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,880 place in, or the one that the designer intends the user to 82 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:58,750 see the game take place in. 83 00:03:58,750 --> 00:03:59,760 AUDIENCE: OK, so you can mention 84 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,340 environment as the big-- 85 00:04:02,340 --> 00:04:03,650 what was the word you used-- 86 00:04:03,650 --> 00:04:08,470 the universe, the setting, something like that. 87 00:04:08,470 --> 00:04:08,940 Back there. 88 00:04:08,940 --> 00:04:10,825 AUDIENCE: Oh yeah, I was going to say that the word that is 89 00:04:10,825 --> 00:04:12,024 used over and over is world. 90 00:04:12,024 --> 00:04:14,838 It's just a world, pretty much. 91 00:04:14,838 --> 00:04:16,529 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: And that's the keyword. 92 00:04:16,529 --> 00:04:20,350 When [UNINTELLIGIBLE] is talking about fiction, he's 93 00:04:20,350 --> 00:04:24,340 really talking all throughout about fictional worlds. 94 00:04:24,340 --> 00:04:27,540 In a way, designing games and designing video games 95 00:04:27,540 --> 00:04:32,242 specifically, is always thinking about what is the 96 00:04:32,242 --> 00:04:32,890 world of this game. 97 00:04:32,890 --> 00:04:35,120 And at times there might be games that don't have worlds. 98 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,520 You can make Tetris. 99 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,110 You could make-- 100 00:04:38,110 --> 00:04:40,000 There's very few video games without worlds. 101 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,250 But there are some. 102 00:04:42,250 --> 00:04:43,000 Tetris-- 103 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:43,840 AUDIENCE: Peggle. 104 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:45,110 So does Peggle. 105 00:04:45,110 --> 00:04:45,840 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Peggle? 106 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:47,560 Well, Peggle has characters, you know. 107 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:48,760 You were talking about this. 108 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,335 Characters are already [UNINTELLIGIBLE] in fiction. 109 00:04:52,335 --> 00:04:54,420 AUDIENCE: You said it has nothing to do with unicorns. 110 00:04:54,420 --> 00:04:55,670 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes. 111 00:04:57,190 --> 00:04:58,141 Who wants to say something? 112 00:04:58,141 --> 00:04:59,494 We have two hands here. 113 00:04:59,494 --> 00:05:01,300 AUDIENCE: I'm stealing it. 114 00:05:01,300 --> 00:05:03,960 OK, in print or with board games, I think of fiction much 115 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:10,400 more as the specific explicit things they give you, like the 116 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:16,380 pictures, the rules, and all of that stuff versus what it 117 00:05:16,380 --> 00:05:17,380 feels like you're doing. 118 00:05:17,380 --> 00:05:20,070 So if they don't specifically tell you you're in blah place, 119 00:05:20,070 --> 00:05:22,420 then that's not part of the fiction. 120 00:05:22,420 --> 00:05:23,940 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: OK, yeah. 121 00:05:23,940 --> 00:05:26,350 So you put your finger on it, but when we're talking about 122 00:05:26,350 --> 00:05:28,780 non-digital games, there are some non-digital games where 123 00:05:28,780 --> 00:05:30,940 thinking about worlds is a bit shaky. 124 00:05:30,940 --> 00:05:32,360 Do you want to say something? 125 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,230 AUDIENCE: Yeah, just going to add that in an environment, 126 00:05:34,230 --> 00:05:35,770 you have a set of things you can do. 127 00:05:35,770 --> 00:05:37,570 So you're basically given rules. 128 00:05:37,570 --> 00:05:41,250 Like in a board game, you could be given a character 129 00:05:41,250 --> 00:05:44,890 that has to jump for some reason. 130 00:05:44,890 --> 00:05:45,947 The board game could say that they could 131 00:05:45,947 --> 00:05:47,820 jump some insane distance. 132 00:05:47,820 --> 00:05:49,110 Well, in real life, they can't do that. 133 00:05:49,110 --> 00:05:50,330 That's just part of the fiction. 134 00:05:50,330 --> 00:05:54,316 So it's whatever laws apply within that world, as well. 135 00:05:54,316 --> 00:05:56,060 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: This is a very interesting point 136 00:05:56,060 --> 00:05:58,660 because when you were talking about-- 137 00:05:58,660 --> 00:06:00,400 what's that word that he uses-- 138 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:01,645 incongruous worlds? 139 00:06:01,645 --> 00:06:03,030 Incoherent, incoherent. 140 00:06:03,030 --> 00:06:05,410 He talks about incoherent worlds, and it's like, well, 141 00:06:05,410 --> 00:06:06,390 incoherent according to what? 142 00:06:06,390 --> 00:06:07,940 It's obviously not the rules that are also creating part of 143 00:06:07,940 --> 00:06:08,845 the fiction. 144 00:06:08,845 --> 00:06:15,060 The rules are also creating what are the laws of gravity 145 00:06:15,060 --> 00:06:19,020 in a specific world that we are playing in, for example. 146 00:06:19,020 --> 00:06:22,370 So when we're talking about fiction, we're mainly talking 147 00:06:22,370 --> 00:06:24,010 about fictional world. 148 00:06:24,010 --> 00:06:26,960 Now, how does that relate to theme? 149 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,105 And you were already kind of hinting at that. 150 00:06:30,105 --> 00:06:32,190 That in fiction and board games, it's kind of like, 151 00:06:32,190 --> 00:06:34,750 well, it almost can be about anything. 152 00:06:34,750 --> 00:06:37,380 But what is the theme of a g-- when you-- if you remember 153 00:06:37,380 --> 00:06:39,390 Soren Johnson's discussion-- 154 00:06:39,390 --> 00:06:40,950 what does he refer to as a theme? 155 00:06:40,950 --> 00:06:45,800 He is not an academic, so he has a more wobbly, loose 156 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:47,250 definition. 157 00:06:47,250 --> 00:06:48,500 What is the theme of a game? 158 00:06:54,431 --> 00:06:56,683 AUDIENCE: The theme of the game is what the designer says 159 00:06:56,683 --> 00:06:58,970 to the player, this is what the game is about. 160 00:07:03,870 --> 00:07:05,310 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: But when-- 161 00:07:05,310 --> 00:07:06,995 Soren Johnson is saying theme is not meaning. 162 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,360 So he's making a point that theme might not be what the 163 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,192 game is about. 164 00:07:15,192 --> 00:07:15,650 Right? 165 00:07:15,650 --> 00:07:17,400 AUDIENCE: This is what the game designer tells you. 166 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:18,960 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah. 167 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,533 The example that he gives is Ticket to Ride, right? 168 00:07:22,533 --> 00:07:26,350 And Ticket to Ride is not about riding trains. 169 00:07:26,350 --> 00:07:28,240 It's about-- 170 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:29,750 it's about-- 171 00:07:29,750 --> 00:07:34,170 well, the description is about going from one 172 00:07:34,170 --> 00:07:35,610 end to another, right? 173 00:07:35,610 --> 00:07:36,570 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 174 00:07:36,570 --> 00:07:37,050 And travelling across-- 175 00:07:37,050 --> 00:07:38,490 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Is building-- 176 00:07:38,490 --> 00:07:39,970 AUDIENCE: It's about travelling 177 00:07:39,970 --> 00:07:41,110 across the United States. 178 00:07:41,110 --> 00:07:43,080 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: But is it really travelling, or is it 179 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:43,850 building the-- 180 00:07:43,850 --> 00:07:45,442 AUDIENCE: It's not even a story about-- 181 00:07:45,442 --> 00:07:46,834 the story's about travelling. 182 00:07:46,834 --> 00:07:48,410 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, the story's about travelling, 183 00:07:48,410 --> 00:07:49,460 that's the theme. 184 00:07:49,460 --> 00:07:51,535 But what you actually do is-- 185 00:07:51,535 --> 00:07:57,280 AUDIENCE: The official story is that I think it's some 186 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,655 number of years after the events that were Around the 187 00:07:59,655 --> 00:08:03,930 World in Eighty Days, and to commemorate that, the original 188 00:08:03,930 --> 00:08:06,140 people who were involved in that race decided they're 189 00:08:06,140 --> 00:08:08,134 going to race across America in trains. 190 00:08:08,134 --> 00:08:10,882 And that is the theme of the game, according to-- 191 00:08:10,882 --> 00:08:12,485 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, that's the theme of the game. 192 00:08:12,485 --> 00:08:15,190 AUDIENCE: Well, that sort of what drives to the point of 193 00:08:15,190 --> 00:08:17,770 what Sorenson's talking about, that when theme and meaning 194 00:08:17,770 --> 00:08:18,580 are incongruous-- 195 00:08:18,580 --> 00:08:22,190 as they are in Ticket to Ride to an extreme extent-- it can 196 00:08:22,190 --> 00:08:24,381 actually turn people off from the game sometimes. 197 00:08:24,381 --> 00:08:25,236 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Well, and it's not 198 00:08:25,236 --> 00:08:25,840 that it's a bad game-- 199 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:26,610 AUDIENCE: Or Halo Wars. 200 00:08:26,610 --> 00:08:27,980 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Well, not necessarily. 201 00:08:27,980 --> 00:08:29,175 AUDIENCE: The thing about Halo Wars was that it sounded like 202 00:08:29,175 --> 00:08:31,210 you bought it thinking it was going to be an action game, 203 00:08:31,210 --> 00:08:33,301 then got disappointed and were like, blah! 204 00:08:33,301 --> 00:08:35,330 AUDIENCE: In the case with Ticket to Ride, it is pretty 205 00:08:35,330 --> 00:08:37,570 much just what they were saying there, right? 206 00:08:37,570 --> 00:08:42,210 That the theme seems to just be whoever it is that wrote 207 00:08:42,210 --> 00:08:45,927 the instruction booklet say that you're doing, which may 208 00:08:45,927 --> 00:08:47,672 not necessarily have anything to do with the actual 209 00:08:47,672 --> 00:08:49,270 mechanics of the game. 210 00:08:49,270 --> 00:08:50,070 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, I have the game. 211 00:08:50,070 --> 00:08:51,855 I didn't know if you guys have played it. 212 00:08:51,855 --> 00:08:52,720 I made you want to play it. 213 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,620 [INAUDIBLE] 214 00:08:54,620 --> 00:08:55,910 As of right now, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 215 00:08:55,910 --> 00:08:59,400 is a game called Too Many Cooks, and it seems to be 216 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,026 about cooking. 217 00:09:02,026 --> 00:09:05,720 Yeah, you have ingredients, and you're 218 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,160 making a soup of sorts. 219 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,050 But really what you're doing is resource management and 220 00:09:11,050 --> 00:09:11,920 exchanging. 221 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,690 Just imagine being a cook and having to, like, well, I have 222 00:09:14,690 --> 00:09:17,805 to wait until I get the right ingredient or maybe exchange 223 00:09:17,805 --> 00:09:18,970 it for another. 224 00:09:18,970 --> 00:09:22,370 That's not how you cook really. 225 00:09:22,370 --> 00:09:26,700 So there's always the clash of how the fiction of the game 226 00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:27,720 relates to the rules. 227 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,050 And the interesting distinction between fiction 228 00:09:31,050 --> 00:09:33,612 and theme is that theme seems to be like a layer, seems to 229 00:09:33,612 --> 00:09:36,320 be like a decoration. 230 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,970 At times, it can be part of the title. 231 00:09:38,970 --> 00:09:42,170 It can be how the tokens look like, or what 232 00:09:42,170 --> 00:09:43,150 the board looks like. 233 00:09:43,150 --> 00:09:47,620 That is setting up the fiction of the game. 234 00:09:47,620 --> 00:09:49,810 Not the fiction, the theme. 235 00:09:49,810 --> 00:09:51,930 But it doesn't really have a fictional world. 236 00:09:51,930 --> 00:09:54,260 When when you're playing Ticket to Ride or when you're 237 00:09:54,260 --> 00:09:57,055 playing Settlers, you have a feeling 238 00:09:57,055 --> 00:09:58,305 like you're in a world. 239 00:10:00,498 --> 00:10:04,980 AUDIENCE: At least, more so than Ticket to Ride. 240 00:10:04,980 --> 00:10:09,320 So, I will argue that maybe the world that you feel is not 241 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,130 that they're telling you that you're in, right? 242 00:10:12,130 --> 00:10:14,800 One of the problems of Ticket to Ride is that you never 243 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:18,100 really feel these characters exist. 244 00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:23,426 But the world of the United States is very, very present. 245 00:10:23,426 --> 00:10:27,175 Like the positioning of the cities, the fact that these 246 00:10:27,175 --> 00:10:31,250 cities exist and can be connected by land is very-- 247 00:10:31,250 --> 00:10:33,360 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: You guys have read the levels of 248 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:33,610 abstraction? 249 00:10:33,610 --> 00:10:35,610 Talked about levels of abstraction here at all? 250 00:10:35,610 --> 00:10:37,413 PROFESSOR: Not in great detail, but-- 251 00:10:37,413 --> 00:10:40,670 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: OK, it's the idea that it's a world, 252 00:10:40,670 --> 00:10:44,385 but the way that it works is so abstracted that it doesn't 253 00:10:44,385 --> 00:10:46,230 really-- you're not in a world anymore. 254 00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:49,860 It's just these little bits and pieces. 255 00:10:49,860 --> 00:10:53,560 OK, we have fiction and we have theme, but 256 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:54,510 we also have stories. 257 00:10:54,510 --> 00:10:57,790 And what do stories have to do with this? 258 00:10:57,790 --> 00:11:01,460 How do we have the story in non-digital games? 259 00:11:01,460 --> 00:11:02,525 What principle-- 260 00:11:02,525 --> 00:11:03,860 a story-- 261 00:11:03,860 --> 00:11:06,720 I'm going to find it for you to save time. 262 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,540 A story is a series of connected events that involve 263 00:11:10,540 --> 00:11:12,300 characters. 264 00:11:12,300 --> 00:11:15,260 So those characters perform actions, or there are 265 00:11:15,260 --> 00:11:18,940 happenings, things that happen to them, and those actions 266 00:11:18,940 --> 00:11:23,580 happen in time and in a specific setting, in a 267 00:11:23,580 --> 00:11:24,950 specific place. 268 00:11:24,950 --> 00:11:27,700 And in the case of games, they also involve objects. 269 00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:32,730 That's like my telegraphic version of what a story is. 270 00:11:32,730 --> 00:11:38,720 So what we do in games, in games we have changes of 271 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:39,730 state, right? 272 00:11:39,730 --> 00:11:42,680 Every step of a non-digital game, particularly. 273 00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:46,660 We can think about non-digital games as changes of state, and 274 00:11:46,660 --> 00:11:49,790 having a change of state can constitute an event. 275 00:11:49,790 --> 00:11:51,120 So that is one way. 276 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,990 So how do we generate rules that generate changes of state 277 00:11:54,990 --> 00:11:59,080 that can be thought of as an event in the story? 278 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,580 But I want to know a bit more. 279 00:12:01,580 --> 00:12:04,650 Of the games that you've played so far, how can 280 00:12:04,650 --> 00:12:06,510 non-digital games-- 281 00:12:06,510 --> 00:12:10,805 and maybe you've played more board than card games than 282 00:12:10,805 --> 00:12:11,770 anything, but-- 283 00:12:11,770 --> 00:12:13,190 how can we have a story? 284 00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:15,290 How can we have those events happen? 285 00:12:15,290 --> 00:12:17,495 AUDIENCE: So one game that I've played that has a really 286 00:12:17,495 --> 00:12:19,000 nice story to it is Battlestar Galactica. 287 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,470 In a way, that places-- 288 00:12:21,470 --> 00:12:23,784 it works off of what the player already knows. 289 00:12:23,784 --> 00:12:27,270 So it sort of assumes that the player has a knowledge of the 290 00:12:27,270 --> 00:12:29,760 Battlestar Galactica world, and so it keeps 291 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:30,756 referring to that. 292 00:12:30,756 --> 00:12:33,246 Whenever you play a card that has special abilities, 293 00:12:33,246 --> 00:12:37,014 [INAUDIBLE], so it relies on previous knowledge. 294 00:12:37,014 --> 00:12:38,802 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: That's a very good point. 295 00:12:38,802 --> 00:12:40,680 The point of-- 296 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:43,690 in digital games and non-digital games, but is also 297 00:12:43,690 --> 00:12:44,790 in digital games-- 298 00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:49,370 a lot of storytelling in games happens in the player's head. 299 00:12:49,370 --> 00:12:52,240 Is it evoking [INAUDIBLE] 300 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,190 , is tapping on the player's knowledge. 301 00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:57,270 Is not, as we've got to say, is not so much about 302 00:12:57,270 --> 00:13:00,030 storytelling, but like, OK, what do you know? 303 00:13:00,030 --> 00:13:03,090 We are making the player fill in the gaps. 304 00:13:03,090 --> 00:13:06,640 So that designing a game that involves storytelling is 305 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,180 usually giving cues to the player to create the story, if 306 00:13:10,180 --> 00:13:12,570 that makes sense. 307 00:13:12,570 --> 00:13:13,415 Patrick? 308 00:13:13,415 --> 00:13:17,290 AUDIENCE: I was going to say that a lot of board and card 309 00:13:17,290 --> 00:13:20,415 games, a lot of the fiction just comes from the metaphors 310 00:13:20,415 --> 00:13:21,930 of the mechanics. 311 00:13:21,930 --> 00:13:25,650 So, for example, in Settlers, when you want to build a road, 312 00:13:25,650 --> 00:13:28,010 if you strip away all the fiction, it's just I have 313 00:13:28,010 --> 00:13:30,780 these cards, I put them down, I can put this piece here. 314 00:13:30,780 --> 00:13:36,500 But adding the fiction to it, you say now, I'm not just 315 00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:41,170 putting cards down, I'm using the resources to build a road. 316 00:13:41,170 --> 00:13:44,360 And so that metaphorical action is another 317 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:45,630 event in the story. 318 00:13:45,630 --> 00:13:47,790 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Well, it becomes a meaningful action. 319 00:13:47,790 --> 00:13:48,540 That's another-- 320 00:13:48,540 --> 00:13:50,310 I'm sure that you guys have been talking about that. 321 00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:51,600 What is a meaningful action? 322 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,300 And at times, meaningful action is it constitutes a 323 00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:56,880 story event. 324 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:57,995 Yeah. 325 00:13:57,995 --> 00:14:00,290 AUDIENCE: I think the whole point of Munchkin and and 326 00:14:00,290 --> 00:14:03,750 Shiggy and those games are to construct stories. 327 00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:07,620 When we played it, there was a moment when someon trashed 328 00:14:07,620 --> 00:14:12,080 someone else's shrooms, and then the other person played a 329 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,020 Go Dumpster Diving card to go pick up the shrooms and a bong 330 00:14:16,020 --> 00:14:17,810 from the dumpster. 331 00:14:17,810 --> 00:14:21,330 And this whole sequence of events, the [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 332 00:14:21,330 --> 00:14:22,870 text on the cards, what they were, and the actions you were 333 00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:25,620 taking, and you string them all together, I did this, and 334 00:14:25,620 --> 00:14:28,040 this happened, and this happened with this object, and 335 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:29,540 you've got a perfect story, because you know you're 336 00:14:29,540 --> 00:14:31,620 playing the geek, and that-- 337 00:14:31,620 --> 00:14:32,464 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Well, there's that. 338 00:14:32,464 --> 00:14:35,000 But the other thing that is good about Munchkin is that 339 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,890 reading the cards is fun. 340 00:14:36,890 --> 00:14:38,990 There are bits of the story you'll get in Munchkin that 341 00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:39,810 are like, [INAUDIBLE]. 342 00:14:39,810 --> 00:14:41,430 That is kind of like engaging already. 343 00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:42,630 Oh, and you wanted to say something? 344 00:14:42,630 --> 00:14:44,550 AUDIENCE: I was just going to say that there are some games 345 00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:46,470 which are entirely about telling stories. 346 00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:46,950 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Thank you. 347 00:14:46,950 --> 00:14:50,418 AUDIENCE: Role-playing games are the number one, and then 348 00:14:50,418 --> 00:14:53,452 another example is something like Once Upon a Time, which I 349 00:14:53,452 --> 00:14:57,060 think is [INAUDIBLE]. 350 00:14:57,060 --> 00:14:58,625 And then they have, also, The Adventures of Baron 351 00:14:58,625 --> 00:14:59,900 Munchausen, if you've ever seen-- 352 00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:00,650 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes. 353 00:15:00,650 --> 00:15:01,530 Oh, I should bring it, yes. 354 00:15:01,530 --> 00:15:02,380 I have it in my office. 355 00:15:02,380 --> 00:15:03,480 Thought that's kind of difficult to set 356 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,160 up in half an hour. 357 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:05,400 But yes. 358 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,940 AUDIENCE: And actually, a friend of mine invented a game 359 00:15:08,940 --> 00:15:11,590 which is vaguely based on The Adventures of Baron 360 00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:16,387 Munchausen, where each person is telling a story and they 361 00:15:16,387 --> 00:15:19,598 have cards in front of them which needs to be flipped over 362 00:15:19,598 --> 00:15:21,080 by incorporating the elements of the story into 363 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,550 their hand of cards-- 364 00:15:23,550 --> 00:15:24,305 Anyway, don't worry about it. 365 00:15:24,305 --> 00:15:28,550 AUDIENCE: Yeah, you're going a bit faster, but that's fine 366 00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:31,940 because yeah, there are games that are about storytelling, 367 00:15:31,940 --> 00:15:33,640 communal storytelling, and role-playing 368 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:34,500 games are about that. 369 00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:38,080 And again, as game designers, what we are given when we have 370 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,060 the rule book from D&D is a fictional 371 00:15:41,060 --> 00:15:42,870 world that has rules. 372 00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:48,150 But then we have, as a designer, as a DM, we are 373 00:15:48,150 --> 00:15:49,930 coming up with what is the situation? 374 00:15:49,930 --> 00:15:50,180 What is the world? 375 00:15:50,180 --> 00:15:51,710 What is the the specific challenges that we're 376 00:15:51,710 --> 00:15:52,950 situating in this world? 377 00:15:52,950 --> 00:15:54,920 How are we going to do that? 378 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,810 But it's about communal storytelling. 379 00:15:57,810 --> 00:16:00,040 As we're going to see in a minute, there are also games 380 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,000 that are about coming up with stories. 381 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,970 We're being thrown in a similar way-- 382 00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:07,650 well, in Munchkin, you're kind of constructing the 383 00:16:07,650 --> 00:16:08,730 story as you go. 384 00:16:08,730 --> 00:16:11,310 But in the games that we're going to play today, or some 385 00:16:11,310 --> 00:16:15,230 of you are, like Gloom or Once Upon a Time, the game is being 386 00:16:15,230 --> 00:16:17,180 able to produce a narrative. 387 00:16:17,180 --> 00:16:20,110 Being able to make sense given the specific cues. 388 00:16:20,110 --> 00:16:21,660 You've had your hand up? 389 00:16:21,660 --> 00:16:24,376 AUDIENCE: I was going to do the opposite extreme of a game 390 00:16:24,376 --> 00:16:29,420 with a very basic story, and you kind of make a story up as 391 00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:32,700 you go along, but it's not really that crazy. 392 00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:36,450 This card game, Falling, where pretty much the pretense is 393 00:16:36,450 --> 00:16:40,460 you are [UNINTELLIGIBLE], and you're falling to your demise. 394 00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:46,250 And so while you guys are falling, you guys decide we'll 395 00:16:46,250 --> 00:16:48,820 make a contest of who hits the ground last. 396 00:16:48,820 --> 00:16:51,630 And so it's a real-time game, and you're dealt cards in 397 00:16:51,630 --> 00:16:52,775 order, and it keeps going until you 398 00:16:52,775 --> 00:16:53,690 reach the ground card. 399 00:16:53,690 --> 00:16:57,350 And so you can attack other people. 400 00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:59,427 OK, this is going to happen to you and 401 00:16:59,427 --> 00:17:00,381 different effects happen. 402 00:17:00,381 --> 00:17:02,350 And so when you're actually playing it, it's kind of like 403 00:17:02,350 --> 00:17:03,900 the intensity when you're falling. 404 00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:07,630 Like, oh, I'm going to die, I have to do this fast because, 405 00:17:07,630 --> 00:17:10,300 before you know it, the ground is already at you. 406 00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:11,990 AUDIENCE: It's interesting because it creates a longer 407 00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:13,405 event of something that's supposed is 408 00:17:13,405 --> 00:17:14,170 supposed to be, pop! 409 00:17:14,170 --> 00:17:14,380 Gone. 410 00:17:14,380 --> 00:17:16,280 Scratch, right? 411 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,089 But it's kind of zooming in on how long that would feel if 412 00:17:20,089 --> 00:17:25,030 you were actually falling, making a mini-story of that. 413 00:17:25,030 --> 00:17:27,180 It's interesting because I don't know how strongly-- this 414 00:17:27,180 --> 00:17:29,380 is one of the questions we'll be talking about in stories in 415 00:17:29,380 --> 00:17:32,360 games is what kind of an event constitutes an 416 00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:33,980 event in the story? 417 00:17:33,980 --> 00:17:35,680 Is opening a door an event in the story? 418 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,300 Well, in some games, it can be because it might give you 419 00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:44,120 access to new areas, there might be someone showing up 420 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:45,610 that changes things. 421 00:17:45,610 --> 00:17:53,470 But in other cases, like Monopoly, going around and 422 00:17:53,470 --> 00:17:54,510 getting the-- 423 00:17:54,510 --> 00:17:55,530 how many, $100?-- 424 00:17:55,530 --> 00:18:00,140 $200, is that an event? 425 00:18:00,140 --> 00:18:01,250 AUDIENCE: Maybe it's not. 426 00:18:01,250 --> 00:18:03,250 It doesn't seem like a story event because it's such a 427 00:18:03,250 --> 00:18:06,333 mundane thing that happens all the time, although clearly, it 428 00:18:06,333 --> 00:18:07,501 has [INAUDIBLE]. 429 00:18:07,501 --> 00:18:08,870 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, it does have an effect, but as a 430 00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:14,320 storytelling art, is kind of questionable. 431 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,240 The other thing I wanted to ask you, seeing as you guys 432 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,670 have been playing particular board games, there are board 433 00:18:20,670 --> 00:18:22,100 games that have similar mechanics. 434 00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:25,900 So, I played Race to the Galaxy, which I really like. 435 00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:27,650 And I've been told that [? Potomac Coast ?] 436 00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:29,900 is very similar, yes? 437 00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:33,370 So does changing the theme-- 438 00:18:33,370 --> 00:18:36,010 those two games have different themes-- 439 00:18:36,010 --> 00:18:39,460 but does changing the theme affect the rules in any ways? 440 00:18:39,460 --> 00:18:41,372 For those of you who might have played both? 441 00:18:41,372 --> 00:18:45,000 AUDIENCE: Not really. 442 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,020 Not for-- 443 00:18:46,020 --> 00:18:46,830 San Juan, I think is closer. 444 00:18:46,830 --> 00:18:49,650 San Juan is with the cards. 445 00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:51,820 But it doesn't really change the game, because the 446 00:18:51,820 --> 00:18:52,880 mechanics are almost identical. 447 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,660 It's just covered in a different shell, or whatever 448 00:18:56,660 --> 00:18:58,940 it is, whatever the mechanic they're trying to mimic. 449 00:18:58,940 --> 00:19:02,030 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: So it's like maybe you don't like 450 00:19:02,030 --> 00:19:05,650 colonial or whatever-- 451 00:19:05,650 --> 00:19:08,540 AUDIENCE: Yeah, if you don't like the-- 452 00:19:08,540 --> 00:19:09,884 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: The science fiction part-- 453 00:19:09,884 --> 00:19:12,370 AUDIENCE: The science fiction theme, you could go for this 454 00:19:12,370 --> 00:19:15,510 more Earth town building theme. 455 00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:19,150 But if you don't like playing the game itself, switching to 456 00:19:19,150 --> 00:19:20,428 the other game is probably not going 457 00:19:20,428 --> 00:19:21,508 to be all that different. 458 00:19:21,508 --> 00:19:23,430 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes, yeah, which I think is kind of 459 00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:25,526 interesting, and it's like, so [INAUDIBLE]. 460 00:19:25,526 --> 00:19:25,952 Yes? 461 00:19:25,952 --> 00:19:27,790 AUDIENCE: The interesting thing is that in neither of 462 00:19:27,790 --> 00:19:31,245 those cases, unlike, say, Ticket to Ride, do these 463 00:19:31,245 --> 00:19:33,010 things feel like they're tacked onto the theme? 464 00:19:33,010 --> 00:19:37,580 And in each case, the actual mechanics of the card 465 00:19:37,580 --> 00:19:41,170 faithfully represent what they're supposed to be in the 466 00:19:41,170 --> 00:19:41,980 game fiction, right? 467 00:19:41,980 --> 00:19:50,810 So I feel that the fact that the themes are essentially 468 00:19:50,810 --> 00:19:54,130 interchangeable, or that the same mechanics underlie both 469 00:19:54,130 --> 00:19:57,120 games, despite the fact that they have different themes, 470 00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:59,300 doesn't necessarily mean that there's something 471 00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:00,700 wrong with the theme. 472 00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:01,861 It's just that-- 473 00:20:01,861 --> 00:20:03,070 AUDIENCE: But the meaning is similar-- 474 00:20:03,070 --> 00:20:04,386 AUDIENCE: It's just that the mechanics are flexible, or 475 00:20:04,386 --> 00:20:04,650 something like that. 476 00:20:04,650 --> 00:20:06,490 AUDIENCE: But what I mean, the meaning of what you actually 477 00:20:06,490 --> 00:20:08,040 do in the games is similar. 478 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,020 Resource management, planning ahead, knowing when you can 479 00:20:12,020 --> 00:20:14,170 deploy a certain-- 480 00:20:14,170 --> 00:20:16,280 they are about the same thing, even if they 481 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,180 have different settings. 482 00:20:18,180 --> 00:20:20,050 So that's probably the connection. 483 00:20:20,050 --> 00:20:22,980 It's not about oh, if you like science fiction games, you can 484 00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:26,160 play the Battlestar Galactica game, Race to the Galaxy, 485 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,470 whereas I'm guessing that for most people, it's, well, if I 486 00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:33,540 like Puerto Rico, or I'm thinking of San Juan, sorry, 487 00:20:33,540 --> 00:20:35,470 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] wrong place. 488 00:20:35,470 --> 00:20:38,000 AUDIENCE: Their themes are close enough. 489 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,450 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: But you would play 490 00:20:39,450 --> 00:20:40,624 something that is similar. 491 00:20:40,624 --> 00:20:41,532 Does that make sense? 492 00:20:41,532 --> 00:20:47,050 AUDIENCE: If the meaning of both games is really empire 493 00:20:47,050 --> 00:20:48,160 building in some sense, right? 494 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,213 In San Juan, it's got historic themes, and Race to the Galaxy 495 00:20:51,213 --> 00:20:52,119 it's futuristic. 496 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,800 But they're both empire building. 497 00:20:55,800 --> 00:21:00,090 The theme is very well defined in both of these games. 498 00:21:00,090 --> 00:21:02,304 That will make sense because both themes are about empire 499 00:21:02,304 --> 00:21:06,104 building, only one's in the future and one's in the past. 500 00:21:06,104 --> 00:21:08,790 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: OK, so we have-- 501 00:21:08,790 --> 00:21:10,590 this has taken a bit of the time, but these are the 502 00:21:10,590 --> 00:21:14,330 foundations of the concepts that I wanted to get across 503 00:21:14,330 --> 00:21:16,560 today and discuss today. 504 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,280 When we talk about video games, there's an extra layer, 505 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:25,212 which is video games that are story driven versus just games 506 00:21:25,212 --> 00:21:26,760 with a story. 507 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,460 An example I have here. 508 00:21:29,460 --> 00:21:32,333 So this is Soul Calibur 2, as far as I remember-- 509 00:21:32,333 --> 00:21:33,319 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 510 00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:34,798 Soul Calibur II-- 511 00:21:34,798 --> 00:21:35,291 [INAUDIBLE] 512 00:21:35,291 --> 00:21:36,277 I think so. 513 00:21:36,277 --> 00:21:37,756 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: I don't know. 514 00:21:37,756 --> 00:21:38,742 [INAUDIBLE] 515 00:21:38,742 --> 00:21:42,010 Soul Calibur hoping that it was familiar to [INAUDIBLE] 516 00:21:42,010 --> 00:21:42,800 designing. 517 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,757 Anyway, so in Soul Calibur, what's the game about? 518 00:21:47,757 --> 00:21:48,751 AUDIENCE: Fighting. 519 00:21:48,751 --> 00:21:51,280 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: It's about fighting hand-to-hand. 520 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:52,470 AUDIENCE: It has some weird story. 521 00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:55,470 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: And it does have a weird story that's 522 00:21:55,470 --> 00:21:57,010 like, well, does anybody know the story? 523 00:21:57,010 --> 00:22:00,155 I know that there's something, and there's some reason why 524 00:22:00,155 --> 00:22:04,050 Sandra or Sophitia-- 525 00:22:04,050 --> 00:22:06,634 Sophitia, right? 526 00:22:06,634 --> 00:22:07,586 I don't know. 527 00:22:07,586 --> 00:22:08,538 I think her sister is Sandra. 528 00:22:08,538 --> 00:22:11,230 AUDIENCE: They're related somehow, they're mother and 529 00:22:11,230 --> 00:22:13,870 daughter or brothers or sisters or something. 530 00:22:13,870 --> 00:22:15,790 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Oh, OK. 531 00:22:15,790 --> 00:22:17,380 Maybe that's what she's asking for. 532 00:22:17,380 --> 00:22:18,744 I didn't know. 533 00:22:18,744 --> 00:22:20,470 I still like these games. 534 00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:22,010 But do I know their stories? 535 00:22:22,010 --> 00:22:22,440 No. 536 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,310 But does it? 537 00:22:24,310 --> 00:22:26,020 Eh, not really. 538 00:22:26,020 --> 00:22:26,900 Enough of these. 539 00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:29,030 For some people, I'm sure that they do care about the stories 540 00:22:29,030 --> 00:22:31,835 of these, or the stories of the characters in Street 541 00:22:31,835 --> 00:22:32,770 Fighter, for example. 542 00:22:32,770 --> 00:22:33,040 Yes? 543 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,160 AUDIENCE: Well I was going to say for games like this, I 544 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,220 actually kind of like the story because it adds-- 545 00:22:39,220 --> 00:22:40,670 the game is not the story. 546 00:22:40,670 --> 00:22:43,040 There are two separate entities. 547 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,170 But one kind of adds to the other. 548 00:22:46,170 --> 00:22:47,530 Like Diablo, for example. 549 00:22:47,530 --> 00:22:50,090 There's lots of people that have played Diablo II without 550 00:22:50,090 --> 00:22:52,520 really caring about the actual story-- 551 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,280 AUDIENCE: Those cinematics were so cool back in the day. 552 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:01,020 AUDIENCE: But even though you can pretty much separate the 553 00:23:01,020 --> 00:23:03,435 story from Diablo II and people would probably still 554 00:23:03,435 --> 00:23:09,040 play it, the story definitely adds a layer of, I am attached 555 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:09,740 to this game. 556 00:23:09,740 --> 00:23:11,870 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: But Diablo, in Diablo, the 557 00:23:11,870 --> 00:23:14,690 difference is that Diablo's closer to being a 558 00:23:14,690 --> 00:23:15,450 story-driven game. 559 00:23:15,450 --> 00:23:18,000 It's closer to being an art-boutique game, where the 560 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,840 quests, you have to know who you're going to talk to, what 561 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,130 are you going to do. 562 00:23:24,130 --> 00:23:28,430 I had a friend, we were working in this game service, 563 00:23:28,430 --> 00:23:32,500 and we had to test all these role-playing games. 564 00:23:32,500 --> 00:23:35,710 And one of my coworkers was like, oh, I have to play-- 565 00:23:35,710 --> 00:23:38,140 it was Baldur's Gate II. 566 00:23:38,140 --> 00:23:39,840 One of the cool ones. 567 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,620 And he was like, OK, I have to test this, and I just have to 568 00:23:42,620 --> 00:23:43,650 see that it works. 569 00:23:43,650 --> 00:23:46,120 And he was not paying attention to any other text. 570 00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:48,890 He was just doing the technical testing. 571 00:23:48,890 --> 00:23:51,600 But then he got stuck, and we were supposed to finish the 572 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,820 games, and he was stuck, and he was going slower because he 573 00:23:54,820 --> 00:23:55,290 didn't know what to do. 574 00:23:55,290 --> 00:23:58,600 I said, well, if you had read what you actually had to do. 575 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,760 Well, for him, it was like, it was just a story! 576 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,330 Well, you're playing an RPG. 577 00:24:03,330 --> 00:24:05,920 You can't leave the story out. 578 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,306 Somebody's telling you that you have to squash I don't 579 00:24:09,306 --> 00:24:13,660 know how many arts, be happy to know that you have to 580 00:24:13,660 --> 00:24:14,930 support the arts. 581 00:24:14,930 --> 00:24:16,790 You have to know where to go. 582 00:24:16,790 --> 00:24:20,120 So in story-driven games, what happens is that the story's 583 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:23,810 really so tied to the rules and the goals of the game that 584 00:24:23,810 --> 00:24:26,570 you have, as you advance in the game, you're also 585 00:24:26,570 --> 00:24:29,110 advancing in the story. 586 00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:34,210 That something that, here, when you beat up somebody in 587 00:24:34,210 --> 00:24:38,360 Soul Calibur or Street Fighter, whatever fighting 588 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:42,970 game you can think of, there might be a little cut scene 589 00:24:42,970 --> 00:24:44,150 that tells us who they are. 590 00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:46,010 One thing that I like about-- 591 00:24:46,010 --> 00:24:46,660 is it Soul Calibur? 592 00:24:46,660 --> 00:24:47,530 Yeah. 593 00:24:47,530 --> 00:24:50,000 There's a bit of taunting, like, oh, he beat me, or 594 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,680 something like that. 595 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,730 But that is building character a bit, and that means writing. 596 00:24:55,730 --> 00:24:58,760 But really, it's not really story-driven. 597 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,340 The fact that we're getting bits of the story as we 598 00:25:02,340 --> 00:25:05,610 complete challenges, doesn't mean that if we ignore the 599 00:25:05,610 --> 00:25:07,212 game, we can still complete the game 600 00:25:07,212 --> 00:25:07,715 without knowing the story. 601 00:25:07,715 --> 00:25:08,930 Does it make sense? 602 00:25:08,930 --> 00:25:13,390 So this is something that video games are doing that, to 603 00:25:13,390 --> 00:25:16,480 a certain extent, some of the board games that you might 604 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,100 have been playing don't quite do. 605 00:25:18,100 --> 00:25:21,200 Does it make sense? 606 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,920 We can still think of-- and there might be some people who 607 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,080 play these board games still at the mathematical level 608 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,140 without paying any attention to what the event that's 609 00:25:31,140 --> 00:25:32,810 representing of. 610 00:25:32,810 --> 00:25:36,160 But that's one potential of video games, that idea of 611 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,480 having a story-driven game where you're playing a game, 612 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,940 you are interacting with the world with a strong-- 613 00:25:41,940 --> 00:25:44,523 in the cases of story-driven games, you also have the 614 00:25:44,523 --> 00:25:47,300 struggle of a fictional world that you are interacting with, 615 00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:50,810 that you are exploring, that you're poking around. 616 00:25:50,810 --> 00:25:55,960 So one thing I wanted to make clear here is that when we 617 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,210 talk about storytelling-- 618 00:25:57,210 --> 00:25:59,820 and let's try to use the term. 619 00:25:59,820 --> 00:26:01,640 We're talking about the stories, but is it really 620 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:02,480 storytelling? 621 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,170 And the thing is that technically 622 00:26:04,170 --> 00:26:05,350 games don't tell stories. 623 00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:06,730 Who's telling the story? 624 00:26:06,730 --> 00:26:08,350 Who's the narrator? 625 00:26:08,350 --> 00:26:10,910 There might be games that have a kind of gimmick of having 626 00:26:10,910 --> 00:26:14,630 the narrator, like Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. 627 00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:17,770 When you make a mistake, and he's supposed to be telling 628 00:26:17,770 --> 00:26:21,120 what's happened to him, and he's like, no, no, no, wait, 629 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:22,150 when are you guys going to learn, no, 630 00:26:22,150 --> 00:26:24,860 that's not how it happened. 631 00:26:24,860 --> 00:26:29,450 But really, most games, again like Baldur's Gate or Diablo, 632 00:26:29,450 --> 00:26:35,760 or more recently like Mass Effect, who is the 633 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,370 storyteller? 634 00:26:37,370 --> 00:26:40,100 And the thing is that there are also 635 00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:41,910 different types of stories. 636 00:26:41,910 --> 00:26:44,590 When we are interacting with a game, what we are doing is 637 00:26:44,590 --> 00:26:48,310 performing, and as we perform, we are creating a story. 638 00:26:48,310 --> 00:26:52,460 There's a story that has been maybe prepared for us. 639 00:26:52,460 --> 00:26:55,580 Going back to the Munchkin thing, in every card, we have 640 00:26:55,580 --> 00:27:01,970 a bit of the story, and we are kind of putting it together, 641 00:27:01,970 --> 00:27:04,130 laying it out. 642 00:27:04,130 --> 00:27:08,190 So the game designers have designed each game, each chunk 643 00:27:08,190 --> 00:27:09,710 of the story, what are the cues that 644 00:27:09,710 --> 00:27:10,650 we're giving the player? 645 00:27:10,650 --> 00:27:14,230 But then there's also what else this player is bringing 646 00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:16,030 to the game. 647 00:27:16,030 --> 00:27:19,260 As I was saying before, there's part that is the game 648 00:27:19,260 --> 00:27:22,330 itself telling its story, and the other is what we are 649 00:27:22,330 --> 00:27:27,200 evoking, what we are having the player bring to the game. 650 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,300 Is the story happening in that player's head? 651 00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:31,190 So what I'd like to say is that it's not really 652 00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:34,270 storytelling, it's about story building, and as game 653 00:27:34,270 --> 00:27:37,800 designers, we are designing those little chunks. 654 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:43,210 We are creating stories that are meant to be reconstructed, 655 00:27:43,210 --> 00:27:45,230 that are meant to be together. 656 00:27:45,230 --> 00:27:47,890 So the difference between storytelling and story 657 00:27:47,890 --> 00:27:50,700 building basically, when we have storytelling, we have 658 00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:56,720 somebody who's narrating, or maybe there's someone who's 659 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,900 re-enacting what's happened, so a thing like 660 00:27:58,900 --> 00:27:59,870 theater, for example. 661 00:27:59,870 --> 00:28:02,560 But this continuous, it's something that just happens 662 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:07,700 and is not fragmented, which is what story building means. 663 00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:11,040 We have something that has not already happened. 664 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:16,540 It's communicated one way, and what those events are and what 665 00:28:16,540 --> 00:28:19,840 order they're told, that's determined by the author. 666 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:24,000 If we think about stories and how stories apply to games in 667 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,380 terms of story building, we're talking 668 00:28:25,380 --> 00:28:27,180 about fragmented stories. 669 00:28:27,180 --> 00:28:27,970 Stories in pieces. 670 00:28:27,970 --> 00:28:30,540 Stories that we have to put together like a puzzle. 671 00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:32,290 And we're game designers. 672 00:28:32,290 --> 00:28:33,570 We make puzzles. 673 00:28:33,570 --> 00:28:36,290 That's one of the many things that we can do. 674 00:28:36,290 --> 00:28:38,900 What those fragments are, how are we giving cues to the 675 00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:42,270 player to put together those fragments, or to come up with 676 00:28:42,270 --> 00:28:45,750 their own ways of coming up with the story. 677 00:28:45,750 --> 00:28:48,640 In a way, it's a kind of collaboration between the 678 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,210 designer and the player, because we rely on the player 679 00:28:51,210 --> 00:28:54,480 to put this story together, to come up with their own ways of 680 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,600 filling the gaps, to really have a proactive role in 681 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,470 figuring out what the story is, and what the 682 00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:03,420 order of events is. 683 00:29:03,420 --> 00:29:04,160 But there are-- 684 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,510 you guys have seen the games of progression and the games 685 00:29:08,510 --> 00:29:09,780 of emergence? 686 00:29:09,780 --> 00:29:10,472 Yes? 687 00:29:10,472 --> 00:29:11,274 You discussed that? 688 00:29:11,274 --> 00:29:13,998 AUDIENCE: Could you [INAUDIBLE] 689 00:29:13,998 --> 00:29:15,850 I'm trying to remember where this-- 690 00:29:15,850 --> 00:29:17,220 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: It's like the [INAUDIBLE] in the 691 00:29:17,220 --> 00:29:19,152 first chapter, second chapter? 692 00:29:19,152 --> 00:29:19,976 AUDIENCE: Well it's a seperate-- 693 00:29:19,976 --> 00:29:23,070 I think we had actually looked at the individual paper. 694 00:29:23,070 --> 00:29:26,180 AUDIENCE: Yeah, we have the individual, not the book. 695 00:29:26,180 --> 00:29:27,812 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Not the chapter? 696 00:29:27,812 --> 00:29:29,270 AUDIENCE: But it's basically the same thing. 697 00:29:29,270 --> 00:29:31,855 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: OK, yeah, because he talked about 698 00:29:31,855 --> 00:29:35,090 the same thing in a couple of different places. 699 00:29:35,090 --> 00:29:39,590 So what happens is that at times, there are games that 700 00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:42,940 have a specific order of events, and there are some 701 00:29:42,940 --> 00:29:47,020 adventure games, like Syberia for example, where you have to 702 00:29:47,020 --> 00:29:50,840 go through a very specific sequence of events, and when 703 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,450 you get to a scene it's like, you have to do this. 704 00:29:53,450 --> 00:30:01,370 Things like Dragon's Lair, the laser disc DVD. 705 00:30:01,370 --> 00:30:04,030 When you go to a place and you have to figure out what is the 706 00:30:04,030 --> 00:30:07,070 action that you have to do, and if you don't do it, you 707 00:30:07,070 --> 00:30:09,290 die in horrible ways. 708 00:30:09,290 --> 00:30:15,520 So those are games that set the order of events very 709 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,340 specifically. 710 00:30:16,340 --> 00:30:19,550 But most of the games tend to have some more flexibility, 711 00:30:19,550 --> 00:30:22,490 and let the players explore the world. 712 00:30:22,490 --> 00:30:26,240 Things that happen in the world are generated by how the 713 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,200 player is interacting with the world. 714 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,010 So in RPGs, for example, depending on the RPG, there 715 00:30:31,010 --> 00:30:34,412 might be the main quest and the side quests, and there 716 00:30:34,412 --> 00:30:36,880 might be flexibility in what order that happens. 717 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,320 Even how a player might solve a specific quest. 718 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:48,050 In terms of table top, who here has been dungeon master? 719 00:30:48,050 --> 00:30:50,034 OK, a bunch of you. 720 00:30:50,034 --> 00:30:51,902 AUDIENCE: [LAUGHTER] 721 00:30:51,902 --> 00:30:53,925 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: OK, so we have a 722 00:30:53,925 --> 00:30:55,400 corner of dungeon masters. 723 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,110 So you probably know that when you design a quest, and then 724 00:30:59,110 --> 00:31:01,600 you set it up, and you have your players, and then your 725 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,760 players come up with a couple of different ways of tackling 726 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,940 your quest, whatever they can come up with. 727 00:31:05,940 --> 00:31:08,610 And you have to improvise and try to-- 728 00:31:08,610 --> 00:31:10,710 you're building the rails of their living. 729 00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:13,290 It's like they're trying to anticipate what 730 00:31:13,290 --> 00:31:15,010 they're going to do. 731 00:31:15,010 --> 00:31:19,825 So we're trying to get that into video games, too, but we 732 00:31:19,825 --> 00:31:22,605 don't have the improvisational capacity built 733 00:31:22,605 --> 00:31:24,640 into computers yet. 734 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:29,195 But as you see, it's like the dungeon masters, as dungeon 735 00:31:29,195 --> 00:31:32,695 masters, we're responding to the actions of the player. 736 00:31:32,695 --> 00:31:33,945 Does it make sense? 737 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,170 When we're talking about story building, there are games, as 738 00:31:38,170 --> 00:31:41,170 I was saying, that are about story building, where the 739 00:31:41,170 --> 00:31:45,280 challenge is constructing a story, improvising as you go. 740 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,770 You're given chunks, and you have to be able to be a 741 00:31:47,770 --> 00:31:49,300 storyteller. 742 00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:50,940 But you'll play these later. 743 00:31:54,609 --> 00:31:57,100 We've actually talked about this before. 744 00:31:57,100 --> 00:32:02,430 So when we're talking about building the fictional world 745 00:32:02,430 --> 00:32:04,140 of the game-- 746 00:32:04,140 --> 00:32:07,860 I'm going to [UNINTELLIGIBLE] through this a bit fast. 747 00:32:07,860 --> 00:32:09,910 We have until 4:30, right? 748 00:32:09,910 --> 00:32:10,870 PROFESSOR: Yes. 749 00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:12,310 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: OK. 750 00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:17,160 So there are also very minimal ways in which we can construct 751 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,690 our fiction, and these are lessons that I've taken from 752 00:32:21,690 --> 00:32:22,620 digital games. 753 00:32:22,620 --> 00:32:26,990 But if you think about it, many of these also apply to 754 00:32:26,990 --> 00:32:28,800 non-digital games. 755 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:34,330 So for example, we have the title of a game can tell us 756 00:32:34,330 --> 00:32:36,990 something about the fictional world, right? 757 00:32:36,990 --> 00:32:39,790 What about board games or card games? 758 00:32:39,790 --> 00:32:43,261 How do the titles build the fictional world? 759 00:32:43,261 --> 00:32:45,525 AUDIENCE: The board game Mafia Wars is pretty clear about 760 00:32:45,525 --> 00:32:46,700 what you're doing. 761 00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:48,050 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: So that's a way. 762 00:32:48,050 --> 00:32:49,840 It's evoking some things, like the type or 763 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,720 kind of world on itself. 764 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:53,950 And also setting the situation. 765 00:32:53,950 --> 00:32:58,210 So here, Mafia Wars is about 766 00:32:58,210 --> 00:32:59,000 AUDIENCE: Mafia having-- 767 00:32:59,000 --> 00:32:59,712 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: There's different factions. 768 00:32:59,712 --> 00:33:00,940 AUDIENCE: Getting in trouble-- 769 00:33:00,940 --> 00:33:02,060 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: There's going-- 770 00:33:02,060 --> 00:33:02,970 yeah. 771 00:33:02,970 --> 00:33:06,740 There's going to be betrayal probably, shooting down people 772 00:33:06,740 --> 00:33:08,155 in horrible ways. 773 00:33:08,155 --> 00:33:09,308 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. 774 00:33:09,308 --> 00:33:10,980 AUDIENCE: Any licensed game? 775 00:33:10,980 --> 00:33:12,345 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Any licensed game? 776 00:33:12,345 --> 00:33:13,320 Yes. 777 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,560 Thought at times, things like versions of Monopoly or 778 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:19,970 Trivial Pursuit where it's kind of like-- 779 00:33:19,970 --> 00:33:21,075 AUDIENCE: Star Wars-- 780 00:33:21,075 --> 00:33:23,610 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Star Wars everything. 781 00:33:23,610 --> 00:33:26,360 AUDIENCE: Risk gets kind of broad. 782 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,370 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: And there are also skimmings of 783 00:33:28,370 --> 00:33:29,830 Risk, right? 784 00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:31,110 AUDIENCE: Yeah, lots. 785 00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:32,460 AUDIENCE: Lord of the Rings. 786 00:33:32,460 --> 00:33:33,800 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Lord of the Rings everything, too. 787 00:33:36,662 --> 00:33:37,912 Kind of like Barbie. 788 00:33:40,001 --> 00:33:41,909 AUDIENCE: I just feel like there are so many Risks. 789 00:33:41,909 --> 00:33:44,217 AUDIENCE: I know there's [? God's ?] which takes place 790 00:33:44,217 --> 00:33:46,882 back in like mythological, [INAUDIBLE]? 791 00:33:46,882 --> 00:33:50,396 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, apart from franchises, what 792 00:33:50,396 --> 00:33:50,945 other titles are-- 793 00:33:50,945 --> 00:33:52,485 AUDIENCE: The Settlers of Catan. 794 00:33:52,485 --> 00:33:55,272 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Settlers of Catan, which is evoking--? 795 00:33:55,272 --> 00:33:56,255 AUDIENCE: Settling. 796 00:33:56,255 --> 00:33:57,700 [LAUGHTER] 797 00:33:57,700 --> 00:34:00,020 AUDIENCE: Building cities. 798 00:34:00,020 --> 00:34:00,330 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Building, sure. 799 00:34:00,330 --> 00:34:01,976 AUDIENCE: San Juan. 800 00:34:01,976 --> 00:34:04,170 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, San Juan's going to-- 801 00:34:04,170 --> 00:34:05,330 that's what you told me, too. 802 00:34:05,330 --> 00:34:06,735 AUDIENCE: Chinatown. 803 00:34:06,735 --> 00:34:07,620 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Chinatown? 804 00:34:07,620 --> 00:34:09,521 AUDIENCE: It's set in Chinatown. 805 00:34:09,521 --> 00:34:10,739 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: And what do you do? 806 00:34:10,739 --> 00:34:13,239 AUDIENCE: You build businesses that are stereotypically 807 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,579 associated with being in Chinatown. 808 00:34:15,579 --> 00:34:17,451 [LAUGHTER] 809 00:34:17,451 --> 00:34:19,442 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: So with one title, it's not only we're 810 00:34:19,442 --> 00:34:21,940 evoking the world, but we can also evoke rules. 811 00:34:21,940 --> 00:34:23,294 What do you have to do to here? 812 00:34:23,294 --> 00:34:25,635 So like Mafia Wars, you kill people. 813 00:34:25,635 --> 00:34:27,070 But then, Settlers of Catan. 814 00:34:27,070 --> 00:34:28,320 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 815 00:34:30,595 --> 00:34:32,520 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: But you are maybe playing what some of 816 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,454 the rules are, what the game is about, which is what is 817 00:34:35,454 --> 00:34:36,260 important here. 818 00:34:36,260 --> 00:34:41,030 And again, Soren Johnson calls attention to the fact that if 819 00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:44,219 you're announcing that your game is about something in the 820 00:34:44,219 --> 00:34:47,479 description booklet, the people might not always read, 821 00:34:47,479 --> 00:34:49,949 or at least a part of people don't read. 822 00:34:49,949 --> 00:34:53,260 You should follow up with that, because it's helping, 823 00:34:53,260 --> 00:34:57,000 it's giving cues to the player about how is the story of the 824 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:57,660 game going to build up. 825 00:34:57,660 --> 00:34:59,410 What is the key? 826 00:34:59,410 --> 00:35:02,560 I like talking about giving keys to the player a lot 827 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,800 because I come from theater. 828 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,880 It's a very intuitive way of understanding. 829 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,650 It's not about us selling the story, it's about helping the 830 00:35:09,650 --> 00:35:11,590 player construct the story. 831 00:35:11,590 --> 00:35:15,076 So I have two examples from video games I really like 832 00:35:15,076 --> 00:35:19,630 about how to build a fictional world with a title. 833 00:35:19,630 --> 00:35:23,730 One obvious one in video games is Space Invaders, right? 834 00:35:23,730 --> 00:35:28,311 Space Invaders means we're on Earth and-- 835 00:35:28,311 --> 00:35:28,780 AUDIENCE: Invaders, aliens. 836 00:35:28,780 --> 00:35:31,360 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Invaders from space, and we'll probably 837 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:32,140 have a fight. 838 00:35:32,140 --> 00:35:33,580 AUDIENCE: Invading from space. 839 00:35:33,580 --> 00:35:35,220 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Another good one, 840 00:35:35,220 --> 00:35:37,470 Zombies Ate My Neighbors. 841 00:35:37,470 --> 00:35:39,032 There's a whole story right there. 842 00:35:39,032 --> 00:35:41,212 So what's the story of this game? 843 00:35:41,212 --> 00:35:42,156 AUDIENCE: Zombies ate the neighbors? 844 00:35:42,156 --> 00:35:43,970 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: The zombies ate the neighbors? 845 00:35:43,970 --> 00:35:45,590 So what do I do in this game? 846 00:35:45,590 --> 00:35:47,255 AUDIENCE: Probably kill zombies. 847 00:35:47,255 --> 00:35:48,185 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: So probably killing zombies. 848 00:35:48,185 --> 00:35:49,755 AUDIENCE: Are zombies eating my neighbors? 849 00:35:49,755 --> 00:35:52,250 Or the zombies ate my neighbors and then just left. 850 00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:53,545 AUDIENCE: Maybe the zombies are your neighbors. 851 00:35:53,545 --> 00:35:55,310 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, maybe you have to kill your 852 00:35:55,310 --> 00:35:57,340 neighbors, too, now. 853 00:35:57,340 --> 00:36:00,170 If there's anything left, because they ate them. 854 00:36:00,170 --> 00:36:04,540 But this is a whole situation. 855 00:36:04,540 --> 00:36:05,000 What do I have to do? 856 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,220 OK, zombies. 857 00:36:06,220 --> 00:36:09,010 Whacking zombies, I'm sure, or running away from them. 858 00:36:09,010 --> 00:36:11,320 AUDIENCE: The fact that you have neighbors in the 859 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:12,550 neighborhood, right? 860 00:36:12,550 --> 00:36:14,100 It's not like a military zombie shooter. 861 00:36:14,100 --> 00:36:16,715 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes, it's not Resident Evil. 862 00:36:16,715 --> 00:36:19,486 AUDIENCE: They looked vaguely like '50s. 863 00:36:19,486 --> 00:36:21,290 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, I'm not sure about that. 864 00:36:21,290 --> 00:36:24,820 This is like a Genesis game. 865 00:36:24,820 --> 00:36:26,680 AUDIENCE: I just played a game with an old, like-- 866 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:27,145 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 867 00:36:27,145 --> 00:36:28,790 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, yeah, right. 868 00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:32,050 AUDIENCE: Harkening back to the zombie movies of the day. 869 00:36:32,050 --> 00:36:33,690 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah. 870 00:36:33,690 --> 00:36:37,770 Another great title that I found not too long ago, Earth 871 00:36:37,770 --> 00:36:38,890 Dies Screaming. 872 00:36:38,890 --> 00:36:40,206 [LAUGHTER] 873 00:36:40,206 --> 00:36:41,152 AUDIENCE: Wow. 874 00:36:41,152 --> 00:36:42,870 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Which is actually about the '70s-- 875 00:36:42,870 --> 00:36:46,026 AUDIENCE: Whoa. 876 00:36:46,026 --> 00:36:48,770 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: The title is from a '70s British 877 00:36:48,770 --> 00:36:53,040 movie that I think has nothing to do with the game. 878 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,970 This is like Space Invaders in a way. 879 00:36:55,970 --> 00:36:59,440 You are defending the earth, it kind of looks like that. 880 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,860 You have your space ship, and you have invaders, and you 881 00:37:04,860 --> 00:37:09,080 have to destroy it before it lands on earth. 882 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,550 But again, it's very evocative. 883 00:37:11,550 --> 00:37:15,530 It's more memorable than Space Invaders in a way, 884 00:37:15,530 --> 00:37:17,770 because it's got-- 885 00:37:17,770 --> 00:37:20,600 there's people attacking earth, whoever it is. 886 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,090 And this is going to end badly. 887 00:37:22,090 --> 00:37:24,370 That's another thing, but Space Invaders and things like 888 00:37:24,370 --> 00:37:24,850 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 889 00:37:24,850 --> 00:37:30,627 and all those arcade games that do have an ending, you 890 00:37:30,627 --> 00:37:31,908 know the ending. 891 00:37:31,908 --> 00:37:33,402 You cannot really save earth. 892 00:37:33,402 --> 00:37:37,510 It's really ominous in a way. 893 00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:39,480 But again, we have a whole. 894 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,970 We have a whole situation is about-- 895 00:37:41,970 --> 00:37:43,200 in the title. 896 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:43,830 It's also very memorable. 897 00:37:43,830 --> 00:37:45,290 I really like this title. 898 00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:48,770 Another way in which we can give cues to 899 00:37:48,770 --> 00:37:50,790 players to build worlds-- 900 00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:58,055 and I had more of this, but this applies more to video 901 00:37:58,055 --> 00:38:02,100 games than to board games, card games, and even 902 00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:05,380 role-playing games, is character design. 903 00:38:05,380 --> 00:38:07,690 Because when we are making-- 904 00:38:07,690 --> 00:38:09,960 and tell me from your own experience-- 905 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,450 but when you're making non-digital games, and even 906 00:38:12,450 --> 00:38:17,890 when you're preparing your Dungeons & Dragons campaign, 907 00:38:17,890 --> 00:38:20,150 you don't really come up with the characters. 908 00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:23,220 The characters is something that the player brings. 909 00:38:23,220 --> 00:38:25,670 For card games, if you have any examples that are counter 910 00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:28,470 examples for this, please let me know. 911 00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:31,660 But character design is not something that you do so much 912 00:38:31,660 --> 00:38:32,480 in non-digital games. 913 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,370 Do you have any examples of that? 914 00:38:34,370 --> 00:38:35,707 AUDIENCE: Well, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 915 00:38:35,707 --> 00:38:36,501 can be. 916 00:38:36,501 --> 00:38:38,680 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, in a way, yes. 917 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,020 AUDIENCE: I was thinking [? Acompora ?] 918 00:38:42,020 --> 00:38:45,645 and other games where you have a character which is assigned 919 00:38:45,645 --> 00:38:48,130 to you and often they have back story. 920 00:38:48,130 --> 00:38:50,576 In [? Acompora ?] there's [UNINTELLIGIBLE], Byron, or 921 00:38:50,576 --> 00:38:51,858 what have you. 922 00:38:51,858 --> 00:38:55,490 AUDIENCE: I was going to say the game where 923 00:38:55,490 --> 00:38:56,160 you're trying to-- 924 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:57,096 Clue, Clue. 925 00:38:57,096 --> 00:38:59,620 Where you choose a character and they all have their 926 00:38:59,620 --> 00:39:01,300 [INAUDIBLE] and whatnot. 927 00:39:01,300 --> 00:39:03,310 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: The things that I-- 928 00:39:03,310 --> 00:39:05,410 As a player, are you really involved with those 929 00:39:05,410 --> 00:39:06,475 characters? 930 00:39:06,475 --> 00:39:08,530 AUDIENCE: I think I can think of one game which is an 931 00:39:08,530 --> 00:39:13,395 example where you are, and it's called Android. 932 00:39:13,395 --> 00:39:18,640 This game was released, I think, two years ago now, and 933 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:19,820 part of the-- 934 00:39:19,820 --> 00:39:22,270 actually, you should probably play it-- 935 00:39:22,270 --> 00:39:25,870 part of the point is that it was trying to include 936 00:39:25,870 --> 00:39:27,120 developments of-- 937 00:39:29,370 --> 00:39:31,830 resolving characters' personal stories through 938 00:39:31,830 --> 00:39:32,760 mechanics in the game. 939 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:33,590 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Oh, yeah. 940 00:39:33,590 --> 00:39:37,935 AUDIENCE: So you're actually playing through this choose 941 00:39:37,935 --> 00:39:42,070 your own adventure-ish type scenario. 942 00:39:42,070 --> 00:39:45,540 And the choices that you make throughout the game influence 943 00:39:45,540 --> 00:39:46,818 what directions your character's 944 00:39:46,818 --> 00:39:49,630 personal story arc. 945 00:39:49,630 --> 00:39:51,793 It's a very good game. 946 00:39:51,793 --> 00:39:53,090 But it's interesting, right? 947 00:39:53,090 --> 00:39:55,820 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, what I'm trying to get at here 948 00:39:55,820 --> 00:39:58,150 is that at times, the characters are-- 949 00:39:58,150 --> 00:40:01,650 and again, evoking actions, evoking certain emotions, too. 950 00:40:01,650 --> 00:40:05,560 I think that that detachment with non-digital games-- 951 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:06,990 with role-playing games, it's different. 952 00:40:06,990 --> 00:40:10,120 But again, when you're building your own characters 953 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,630 in role-playing, you have an investment when you're making 954 00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:13,630 it yourself. 955 00:40:13,630 --> 00:40:17,050 I'm talking more of the point of view of the designer. 956 00:40:17,050 --> 00:40:17,675 Here? 957 00:40:17,675 --> 00:40:22,870 AUDIENCE: So another [UNINTELLIGIBLE] game again, 958 00:40:22,870 --> 00:40:23,830 Battlestar Galactica. 959 00:40:23,830 --> 00:40:28,100 You are assigned a character, and if you know Battlestar 960 00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:30,370 Galactica, you're probably going to go for certain 961 00:40:30,370 --> 00:40:32,310 characters, because like, oh, that character's hilarious, I 962 00:40:32,310 --> 00:40:34,570 want to be him, or, I'm going to be 963 00:40:34,570 --> 00:40:37,030 Starbuck, Starbuck's awesome. 964 00:40:37,030 --> 00:40:41,130 And then each player actually also has certain traits, which 965 00:40:41,130 --> 00:40:43,720 are characteristic of their-- 966 00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:46,652 for the player in the [UNINTELLIGIBLE], like 967 00:40:46,652 --> 00:40:51,000 [? tie ?], except he's now taller, so there's a certain 968 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,451 negative attribute to him if you're in a certain situation. 969 00:40:54,451 --> 00:40:55,244 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: OK. 970 00:40:55,244 --> 00:40:56,900 All right, we have-- 971 00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:57,100 near the back. 972 00:40:57,100 --> 00:40:59,620 AUDIENCE: I was going to say in live-action role-playing 973 00:40:59,620 --> 00:41:03,210 games, like expansion, Assassin's Guild, and stuff, 974 00:41:03,210 --> 00:41:04,880 the characters are entirely 975 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,070 designed by the game designers. 976 00:41:08,070 --> 00:41:12,775 But you still get the players who take up this character and 977 00:41:12,775 --> 00:41:14,600 become involved with it, because all of their actions 978 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:19,462 are based on what the designer chose to make that character. 979 00:41:19,462 --> 00:41:22,426 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yep, yep, that's true, that's true. 980 00:41:22,426 --> 00:41:24,896 And one? 981 00:41:24,896 --> 00:41:26,040 AUDIENCE: Two other games. 982 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:31,963 Cosmic Encounter is where probably a lot closer to the 983 00:41:31,963 --> 00:41:34,590 thousand island kind of situation you've got. 984 00:41:34,590 --> 00:41:38,396 You pick a race at the beginning of the game. 985 00:41:38,396 --> 00:41:39,815 So it's not a single character. 986 00:41:39,815 --> 00:41:43,247 But that's effectively the same thing in that, if you 987 00:41:43,247 --> 00:41:45,510 pick something like the Cubans, you have different 988 00:41:45,510 --> 00:41:48,750 goals, and you have different powers that you 989 00:41:48,750 --> 00:41:50,060 can use in the game. 990 00:41:50,060 --> 00:41:52,687 Whereas if you play a game like Illuminati, instead of 991 00:41:52,687 --> 00:41:55,320 playing an individual you're playing a corporation, or 992 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:56,560 actually a [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 993 00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,120 for society, for the most part, and your actual game 994 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,990 winning goals are different, depending on who you pick. 995 00:42:03,990 --> 00:42:09,420 And part of the game is also figuring out what certain 996 00:42:09,420 --> 00:42:11,442 characters are trying-- how certain characters are trying 997 00:42:11,442 --> 00:42:14,932 to win the game, because not everybody has the same game 998 00:42:14,932 --> 00:42:15,663 winning goal. 999 00:42:15,663 --> 00:42:16,637 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: OK. 1000 00:42:16,637 --> 00:42:18,098 Patrick, last one. 1001 00:42:18,098 --> 00:42:22,020 AUDIENCE: In the card game Saboteur, if your role is the 1002 00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:25,320 saboteur, then it is in the player's best interest to act 1003 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:26,801 in that role. 1004 00:42:26,801 --> 00:42:28,460 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: To perform like what? 1005 00:42:28,460 --> 00:42:30,870 AUDIENCE: Yes, to be some person to the other players 1006 00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:32,316 without letting them catch on. 1007 00:42:32,316 --> 00:42:33,510 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Well, awesome. 1008 00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:36,590 You see, and this is why, I think, [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1009 00:42:36,590 --> 00:42:39,160 I was asking. 1010 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:44,190 Yeah, I think the LARPing one is the obvious case, yeah. 1011 00:42:44,190 --> 00:42:48,640 In video games, what we do, we can build character in 1012 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:53,070 cinematic ways and cut scenes and whatever, but really, it's 1013 00:42:53,070 --> 00:42:56,740 very difficult to build a character that is at the same 1014 00:42:56,740 --> 00:43:00,960 time you, and not you are the player and not the player. 1015 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,240 And what we can do is give them cues about the 1016 00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:06,590 personality of that character. 1017 00:43:06,590 --> 00:43:10,190 And one of the examples I wanted to give was Sonic, 1018 00:43:10,190 --> 00:43:11,960 because Sonic is not really you. 1019 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:13,310 This is always the-- 1020 00:43:13,310 --> 00:43:15,905 a bit of this trouble in a lot of the examples that you were 1021 00:43:15,905 --> 00:43:18,875 doing, except for LARPing, where LARPing is a bit more 1022 00:43:18,875 --> 00:43:21,075 involved, is that it's kind of like you but not you. 1023 00:43:21,075 --> 00:43:21,700 Who am I? 1024 00:43:21,700 --> 00:43:24,070 I'm the saboteur, because I'm doing this. 1025 00:43:26,820 --> 00:43:30,050 In games, we have Sonic, for example. 1026 00:43:30,050 --> 00:43:31,130 We are Sonic. 1027 00:43:31,130 --> 00:43:32,350 What are we? 1028 00:43:32,350 --> 00:43:34,645 We are a blue hedgehog. 1029 00:43:34,645 --> 00:43:35,844 And what do we do? 1030 00:43:35,844 --> 00:43:37,296 AUDIENCE: Collect rings. 1031 00:43:37,296 --> 00:43:38,486 AUDIENCE: Run. 1032 00:43:38,486 --> 00:43:42,610 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: So, run and collect coins, and 1033 00:43:42,610 --> 00:43:43,803 liberating cute animals. 1034 00:43:43,803 --> 00:43:45,070 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1035 00:43:45,070 --> 00:43:47,830 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes, that too. 1036 00:43:47,830 --> 00:43:54,040 And one of the things, one of the goals of designing a 1037 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:55,740 character, particularly in video games, is 1038 00:43:55,740 --> 00:43:57,510 making it seem alive. 1039 00:43:57,510 --> 00:44:00,550 Making it go beyond the functional part. 1040 00:44:00,550 --> 00:44:04,350 Like, oh, we are the saboteur, we are whatever character in 1041 00:44:04,350 --> 00:44:05,910 Clue, for example. 1042 00:44:05,910 --> 00:44:09,080 Having that emotional involvement, that is something 1043 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,650 that we are trying to achieve in video games. 1044 00:44:12,650 --> 00:44:16,860 And Sonic does it in a very subtle, very cool way. 1045 00:44:16,860 --> 00:44:19,720 Does anybody know what this picture is of? 1046 00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:21,121 What he's doing? 1047 00:44:21,121 --> 00:44:23,827 AUDIENCE: When you don't do anything, he starts tapping 1048 00:44:23,827 --> 00:44:24,729 his foot and looking at you. 1049 00:44:24,729 --> 00:44:25,803 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: So it's kind of like, you're not 1050 00:44:25,803 --> 00:44:26,290 controlling me. 1051 00:44:26,290 --> 00:44:27,330 Come on. 1052 00:44:27,330 --> 00:44:28,440 I wanna go. 1053 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:29,270 I really have to go. 1054 00:44:29,270 --> 00:44:31,780 I have to run, because what I do is running. 1055 00:44:31,780 --> 00:44:33,650 So, let's go. 1056 00:44:33,650 --> 00:44:35,370 AUDIENCE: Mario goes to sleep. 1057 00:44:35,370 --> 00:44:36,645 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, Mario goes to 1058 00:44:36,645 --> 00:44:38,195 sleep, that's right. 1059 00:44:38,195 --> 00:44:38,920 AUDIENCE: Starts-- 1060 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:39,390 [INAUDIBLE] 1061 00:44:39,390 --> 00:44:42,180 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: And do you remember any of the 1062 00:44:42,180 --> 00:44:46,300 Earthworm Jim games? 1063 00:44:46,300 --> 00:44:47,590 He does crazy stuff. 1064 00:44:47,590 --> 00:44:49,540 He starts-- 1065 00:44:49,540 --> 00:44:53,080 he flips his head, and he dresses up, like he is 1066 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:54,310 thinking, why don't I-- 1067 00:44:54,310 --> 00:44:54,840 Yeah. 1068 00:44:54,840 --> 00:45:00,350 Or he gets an afro wig at some point. 1069 00:45:00,350 --> 00:45:01,640 What are you doing? 1070 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,300 But it's pulling attention to, who am I? 1071 00:45:04,300 --> 00:45:06,905 When you're not controlling me, I'm gonna do it myself. 1072 00:45:06,905 --> 00:45:10,530 And is the case of Sonic, it's like, OK, I'm a running guy, 1073 00:45:10,530 --> 00:45:14,160 but I need you to run, so come on. 1074 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,057 And it's very subtle, something that is very 1075 00:45:16,057 --> 00:45:19,248 minimal, but is building character, but is also telling 1076 00:45:19,248 --> 00:45:22,160 the player who this character is. 1077 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,240 The last thing-- and this is something that, again, video 1078 00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:28,380 games can do very well-- is something that role-playing 1079 00:45:28,380 --> 00:45:34,950 games can do very well, or LARPing, but I'm not sure that 1080 00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:38,270 card games or board games can do this, is environmental 1081 00:45:38,270 --> 00:45:39,610 storytelling. 1082 00:45:39,610 --> 00:45:43,700 It's telling the story in the space as you go around, as 1083 00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:47,680 you're examining the space and what's going on. 1084 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,710 Video games, what they do very well, is construction of a 1085 00:45:51,710 --> 00:45:53,550 virtual world that we can navigate, that we can explore, 1086 00:45:53,550 --> 00:45:55,960 that we can interact with. 1087 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,170 And one of-- 1088 00:45:58,170 --> 00:46:00,460 those of you who've been in my classes before, you know that 1089 00:46:00,460 --> 00:46:02,290 I love the beginning of Bioshock as an example of 1090 00:46:02,290 --> 00:46:05,840 environmental story telling, because you know what is this 1091 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:11,470 world, what has happened before, and they don't tell it 1092 00:46:11,470 --> 00:46:11,880 with a word. 1093 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,110 It's just going to the space and figuring 1094 00:46:14,110 --> 00:46:15,530 out what has happened. 1095 00:46:15,530 --> 00:46:21,780 Another example that I really love is Portal where a lot of 1096 00:46:21,780 --> 00:46:27,220 the story is told, or you figure it out, as 1097 00:46:27,220 --> 00:46:28,470 you explore the world. 1098 00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:30,120 So what is this in Portal? 1099 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,036 So, first of all, what is the premise of Portal, the story? 1100 00:46:34,036 --> 00:46:36,780 AUDIENCE: You're a test subject testing a new device 1101 00:46:36,780 --> 00:46:38,010 at Aperture Labs. 1102 00:46:38,010 --> 00:46:40,985 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes, so you're a test subject. 1103 00:46:40,985 --> 00:46:42,670 But very soon, you realize that there's 1104 00:46:42,670 --> 00:46:45,330 something kind of wrong. 1105 00:46:45,330 --> 00:46:49,440 This voice that keeps talking to, kind of warps around, and 1106 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,100 she goes and comes back. 1107 00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:54,010 But there's something broken, and you just go on because you 1108 00:46:54,010 --> 00:46:55,670 don't know what else to do. 1109 00:46:55,670 --> 00:46:58,230 But here, what is this? 1110 00:46:58,230 --> 00:47:00,510 Once you start realizing, OK, there's something really 1111 00:47:00,510 --> 00:47:01,460 wrong, what is this? 1112 00:47:01,460 --> 00:47:04,880 AUDIENCE: This is when you're trying to escape. 1113 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,110 AUDIENCE: The hole in the wall. 1114 00:47:06,110 --> 00:47:06,710 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: There's a hole-- 1115 00:47:06,710 --> 00:47:09,120 AUDIENCE: One of the things is stuck forward, and you can 1116 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:09,540 sneak under it or something? 1117 00:47:09,540 --> 00:47:11,980 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, you go behind the scenes and 1118 00:47:11,980 --> 00:47:14,940 you realize, OK, so there's something really wrong here, I 1119 00:47:14,940 --> 00:47:19,210 kind of guessed it, but here we have what looks like 1120 00:47:19,210 --> 00:47:24,870 somebody's refuge, like where somebody was hiding, and they 1121 00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:26,190 were writing all these messages. 1122 00:47:26,190 --> 00:47:29,020 And, of course, it's very funny, because the famous "The 1123 00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:32,880 cake is a lie," is not something that everybody has 1124 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:33,360 to go through. 1125 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:35,080 You have to find it. 1126 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:36,460 You have to find it in the game. 1127 00:47:36,460 --> 00:47:38,160 It's part of exploring the game. 1128 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:42,110 So the reason why I like-- 1129 00:47:42,110 --> 00:47:44,460 I like Portal for many, many reasons-- 1130 00:47:44,460 --> 00:47:47,820 but one is because the storytelling is very 1131 00:47:47,820 --> 00:47:51,610 brilliant--and is not something that we're told, 1132 00:47:51,610 --> 00:47:52,770 this is what happened. 1133 00:47:52,770 --> 00:47:55,830 We figure it out. by listening to the voice, by listening to 1134 00:47:55,830 --> 00:47:58,040 GlaDOS, by going behind the scenes. 1135 00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,980 We are piecing the story together. 1136 00:47:59,980 --> 00:48:00,940 Yes? 1137 00:48:00,940 --> 00:48:03,820 AUDIENCE: If you ever pay attention to what's written on 1138 00:48:03,820 --> 00:48:06,680 the wall in the safe houses in Left for Dead, there's a lot 1139 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,140 of funny stuff, as well. 1140 00:48:08,140 --> 00:48:10,600 And I initially hadn't realized Left for Dead had a 1141 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:11,320 story, really. 1142 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,640 And then, when you actually pause and read what's written 1143 00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,980 on the walls in the safe houses, there's almost flame 1144 00:48:16,980 --> 00:48:19,710 wars between different people who run to the same houses and 1145 00:48:19,710 --> 00:48:21,950 are writing facts about the zombie apocalypse, and saying, 1146 00:48:21,950 --> 00:48:24,880 oh, that's not true, that town is completely overrun, no, 1147 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,200 you're totally stupid, I was there last week, and it had 1148 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,180 these things going on and various two bits of trivia and 1149 00:48:30,180 --> 00:48:30,950 facts about the world. 1150 00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:32,935 And it's very, very clever, and often quite hilarious. 1151 00:48:32,935 --> 00:48:35,900 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Because what environment storytelling 1152 00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:38,570 is doing, after all, we're telling the story of the 1153 00:48:38,570 --> 00:48:40,500 fictional world. 1154 00:48:40,500 --> 00:48:44,790 That can be part of the goal of solving games, figuring out 1155 00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:46,735 what is the story of the fictional world? 1156 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:50,160 Yes, Andrew? 1157 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,110 AUDIENCE: Was there a conscious decision to use 1158 00:48:53,110 --> 00:48:57,260 environmental storytelling as opposed to story building? 1159 00:48:57,260 --> 00:48:58,660 Well, you mentioned the difference between 1160 00:48:58,660 --> 00:49:01,496 storytelling and story building earlier, and you 1161 00:49:01,496 --> 00:49:03,248 mentioned that that was environmental story telling as 1162 00:49:03,248 --> 00:49:04,010 opposed to story building. 1163 00:49:04,010 --> 00:49:05,110 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, and probably is 1164 00:49:05,110 --> 00:49:07,510 really story building. 1165 00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:09,870 So the thing is that environmental storytelling is 1166 00:49:09,870 --> 00:49:11,140 what people call it. 1167 00:49:11,140 --> 00:49:12,100 I'm using a phrase. 1168 00:49:12,100 --> 00:49:14,840 But yeah, this is a type of story building. 1169 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,030 We're building a [UNINTELLIGIBLE], build it for 1170 00:49:18,030 --> 00:49:19,380 the player. 1171 00:49:19,380 --> 00:49:23,515 But yeah, this is story building. 1172 00:49:23,515 --> 00:49:26,000 PROFESSOR: More precisely, you will see talks on 1173 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,880 environmental storytelling when you go to a conference. 1174 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,533 But what they're really talking about, so you know, is 1175 00:49:32,533 --> 00:49:35,479 just that [INAUDIBLE] involved in research. 1176 00:49:35,479 --> 00:49:38,920 AUDIENCE: So maybe the closest to this kind of thing is in 1177 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,480 flavor text in CCG's and other such stuff. 1178 00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,770 So if you think, for instance, of Magic the Gathering, then 1179 00:49:43,770 --> 00:49:46,100 there is a back story behind each of these 1180 00:49:46,100 --> 00:49:48,390 expansions which comes out. 1181 00:49:48,390 --> 00:49:51,985 And that's told through actual fiction, where you can buy a 1182 00:49:51,985 --> 00:49:53,000 really trashy novel. 1183 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,920 [LAUGHTER] 1184 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,860 But it's also told through little quotes between-- 1185 00:49:57,860 --> 00:50:01,010 by significant the characters in the fiction, also the 1186 00:50:01,010 --> 00:50:02,300 images which are presented on the cards. 1187 00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:04,544 So, maybe that's the closest thing to environmental story 1188 00:50:04,544 --> 00:50:05,080 telling in-- 1189 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:06,900 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes, yeah. 1190 00:50:06,900 --> 00:50:08,900 Magic the Gathering has this world, and it seems to be very 1191 00:50:08,900 --> 00:50:11,060 easy expand it. 1192 00:50:11,060 --> 00:50:13,910 I don't know if there's a bible of the Magic the 1193 00:50:13,910 --> 00:50:14,870 Gathering world. 1194 00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:17,290 AUDIENCE: Yeah, yeah, there's an entire creative department 1195 00:50:17,290 --> 00:50:18,220 at Wizards of the Coast that's responsible for maintaining 1196 00:50:18,220 --> 00:50:21,490 the story and making sure it's all consistent and stuff. 1197 00:50:21,490 --> 00:50:23,780 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: So it's not really something-- 1198 00:50:23,780 --> 00:50:27,712 it's almost 4:00, so I have still something, but we can go 1199 00:50:27,712 --> 00:50:30,167 through it very fast if that works? 1200 00:50:30,167 --> 00:50:32,627 PROFESSOR: If we run out of time, we can play these games 1201 00:50:32,627 --> 00:50:33,521 on Friday or something. 1202 00:50:33,521 --> 00:50:33,970 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: OK. 1203 00:50:33,970 --> 00:50:34,590 PROFESSOR: If that sounds like a good idea. 1204 00:50:34,590 --> 00:50:35,720 All right. 1205 00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:38,850 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: So, we've been talking so far 1206 00:50:38,850 --> 00:50:43,592 about designing the story of world, designing the story of 1207 00:50:43,592 --> 00:50:45,070 the fictional world. 1208 00:50:45,070 --> 00:50:47,890 What we also have, as I was saying before, the players 1209 00:50:47,890 --> 00:50:50,910 also construction a story as we go. 1210 00:50:50,910 --> 00:50:54,805 Things that happen to the player, things that happen in 1211 00:50:54,805 --> 00:50:56,390 the world, because they happen to the player. 1212 00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:59,245 And again, one of the reasons why I was talking about games 1213 00:50:59,245 --> 00:51:02,850 of progressions versus games of emergence is that in 1214 00:51:02,850 --> 00:51:08,630 stories, we have a similar parallel of stories that have 1215 00:51:08,630 --> 00:51:14,590 been designed for the player, things that they have to do in 1216 00:51:14,590 --> 00:51:18,590 role-playing games, and I'm talking about pen and pencil-- 1217 00:51:18,590 --> 00:51:22,560 pen and paper role-playing games, we have the story that 1218 00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,280 as the end we have designed, and then there's what the 1219 00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:27,600 players are trying to do. 1220 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:32,140 In video games, because computers don't have the 1221 00:51:32,140 --> 00:51:36,550 capacity for improvisation, what the player has to do is a 1222 00:51:36,550 --> 00:51:39,170 lot more constrained in a way. 1223 00:51:39,170 --> 00:51:41,440 So what are the bosses that they have to-- 1224 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,520 how do they solve a specific problem, or how do we get over 1225 00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:45,610 a specific problem. 1226 00:51:45,610 --> 00:51:52,170 So I like giving the example of Legend of Zelda games, 1227 00:51:52,170 --> 00:51:58,680 where we do have a story that we're completing almost in a 1228 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,670 specific order, because if you don't have certain objects, 1229 00:52:01,670 --> 00:52:04,440 you can't go to the next stage until you have certain 1230 00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:05,360 properties. 1231 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,970 So even though we have a really nice, relatively open 1232 00:52:09,970 --> 00:52:13,380 world, a world that we can navigate, we do have a 1233 00:52:13,380 --> 00:52:16,020 specific order of events that we have to follow. 1234 00:52:16,020 --> 00:52:19,750 Adventure games, it might be something like point and click 1235 00:52:19,750 --> 00:52:23,795 adventure games, again, things like Syberia, things like 1236 00:52:23,795 --> 00:52:26,510 Myst, where there is a pre-established sequence of 1237 00:52:26,510 --> 00:52:29,290 events that we have to go settle. 1238 00:52:29,290 --> 00:52:32,340 And then, the other extreme, we have games that are closer 1239 00:52:32,340 --> 00:52:35,680 to these games like Once Upon a Time, or Gloom where the 1240 00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,130 system itself is producing stories of 1241 00:52:38,130 --> 00:52:40,300 sorts, like in The Sims. 1242 00:52:40,300 --> 00:52:43,470 And in The Sims, the fact that we have a way to record our 1243 00:52:43,470 --> 00:52:48,560 own stories and share them is proof that that's a kind of 1244 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,170 system closer to things like Once Upon a Time. 1245 00:52:51,170 --> 00:52:54,210 That is, the system can generate narratives, and that 1246 00:52:54,210 --> 00:52:59,570 playing with the system will generate some narratives. 1247 00:52:59,570 --> 00:53:06,200 So we have ways in which, as designers, we can provide cues 1248 00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:11,350 or ways to design the story of the player. 1249 00:53:11,350 --> 00:53:14,650 And the first one is the game premise, what is 1250 00:53:14,650 --> 00:53:16,560 the goal of the game? 1251 00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:19,250 Game events, I don't know if I'll let that one, because 1252 00:53:19,250 --> 00:53:21,070 that was too long. 1253 00:53:21,070 --> 00:53:23,130 And we have [UNINTELLIGIBLE] a narrative. 1254 00:53:23,130 --> 00:53:25,490 The game premise is who are you in the game, what 1255 00:53:25,490 --> 00:53:26,340 do you do in it. 1256 00:53:26,340 --> 00:53:30,660 It's kind of similar to the title, but in this case, is 1257 00:53:30,660 --> 00:53:33,660 very tied to who is the player, what is the role of 1258 00:53:33,660 --> 00:53:34,240 the player in the game? 1259 00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:36,550 So things like Cooking Mama, for example. 1260 00:53:36,550 --> 00:53:39,005 You're Cooking Mama, so who are you, Cooking Mama? 1261 00:53:39,005 --> 00:53:40,240 You're not mama. 1262 00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:42,418 Mama's complaining about you. 1263 00:53:42,418 --> 00:53:45,160 You are the person who's cooking for Mama. 1264 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,160 That's the title they should have, Cooking for Mama. 1265 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,900 And then now they're getting pissed off at you because you 1266 00:53:50,900 --> 00:53:52,730 didn't do it right. 1267 00:53:52,730 --> 00:53:56,190 But it tells you basically so you're a cook. 1268 00:53:56,190 --> 00:53:57,650 Or what is it that you do. 1269 00:53:57,650 --> 00:53:59,710 You're trying to please Mama by cooking 1270 00:53:59,710 --> 00:54:01,100 something nice and yummy. 1271 00:54:01,100 --> 00:54:04,950 Usually, also kind of weird. 1272 00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:08,660 A really good example of creating the story of the 1273 00:54:08,660 --> 00:54:12,170 player by the premise of who you are in the game is this. 1274 00:54:15,700 --> 00:54:17,350 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: I love this example. 1275 00:54:17,350 --> 00:54:18,150 AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] 1276 00:54:18,150 --> 00:54:19,840 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Because it's like, who are you? 1277 00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:20,760 You're a hacker. 1278 00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:22,392 And it gives you-- 1279 00:54:22,392 --> 00:54:24,890 the cool thing about this trailer is it gives you a list 1280 00:54:24,890 --> 00:54:25,970 of what you do. 1281 00:54:25,970 --> 00:54:27,240 This is your story. 1282 00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:29,640 You are framing people, you are framing 1283 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:31,310 innocent people, of course. 1284 00:54:31,310 --> 00:54:33,960 Maintaining people's academic records, building their 1285 00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,730 devices, and all those are activities in the game, but 1286 00:54:37,730 --> 00:54:38,670 it's also who you are. 1287 00:54:38,670 --> 00:54:39,460 That is your story. 1288 00:54:39,460 --> 00:54:41,564 Those are the kinds of things that you're going to be doing 1289 00:54:41,564 --> 00:54:43,800 in the game. 1290 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,660 So again, we were talking about Saboteur before. 1291 00:54:46,660 --> 00:54:50,415 Well, as saboteur, you already have a series of actions that 1292 00:54:50,415 --> 00:54:52,720 you associated with the your character. 1293 00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:55,780 That is way that we can design the story of the player, at 1294 00:54:55,780 --> 00:54:59,670 least at the higher level, and give it that cue. 1295 00:54:59,670 --> 00:55:02,480 I'm skipping game events because it's kind of long and 1296 00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,770 it's very, very strong. 1297 00:55:04,770 --> 00:55:08,760 Two basic video games, and mostly [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1298 00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,810 The other example that I want to make here is 1299 00:55:12,810 --> 00:55:13,600 micronarratives. 1300 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:18,550 And again, all these are more video game things, but 1301 00:55:18,550 --> 00:55:22,775 micronarratives are little events, they're not even cut 1302 00:55:22,775 --> 00:55:25,820 scenes, they're just little events that happen as 1303 00:55:25,820 --> 00:55:28,440 reactions to the player's actions. 1304 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:33,590 In a way, Sonic tapping his foot is a kind micronarrative. 1305 00:55:33,590 --> 00:55:36,900 You're not doing anything, come on, I want to go. 1306 00:55:36,900 --> 00:55:40,425 Or Mario falling asleep is kind of like a 1307 00:55:40,425 --> 00:55:41,675 micronarrative of sorts. 1308 00:55:44,420 --> 00:55:46,430 This is one of my favorite micronarratives 1309 00:55:46,430 --> 00:55:48,330 in these video games. 1310 00:55:48,330 --> 00:55:54,620 This is the game Jet Set Willy, which is from 1985, 1311 00:55:54,620 --> 00:55:58,160 maybe, something, middle '80s. 1312 00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,110 It was for Commodore 64. 1313 00:56:00,110 --> 00:56:01,200 Well, it was originally for the-- 1314 00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:02,450 AUDIENCE: Spectrum. 1315 00:56:02,450 --> 00:56:05,013 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes, thank you. 1316 00:56:05,013 --> 00:56:08,170 He's prepared a presentation on the Spectrum, yes. 1317 00:56:08,170 --> 00:56:13,570 Commodore 64 and surrounding this world is Z80 platforms in 1318 00:56:13,570 --> 00:56:17,534 the '80s, and this was a sequel to Manic Miner. 1319 00:56:17,534 --> 00:56:22,044 So Manic Miner, you were Miner Willy, yes? 1320 00:56:22,044 --> 00:56:22,950 Miner Willy. 1321 00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:25,310 And you go down into the earth, and you find a 1322 00:56:25,310 --> 00:56:27,360 treasure, and you become immensely rich. 1323 00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:31,140 So with the money that you get from the first game, you throw 1324 00:56:31,140 --> 00:56:35,460 a party, and you throw such a big party that your house 1325 00:56:35,460 --> 00:56:38,510 becomes invaded by the weirdest creatures ever. 1326 00:56:38,510 --> 00:56:46,012 There are flying toilet seats, mutant pigs, I don't know. 1327 00:56:46,012 --> 00:56:46,894 AUDIENCE: Sounds like a good party. 1328 00:56:46,894 --> 00:56:49,780 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, such a good party that you get 1329 00:56:49,780 --> 00:56:52,610 people from other worlds to come to your party. 1330 00:56:52,610 --> 00:56:55,060 But the thing was that it was such a good party, you wanted 1331 00:56:55,060 --> 00:56:55,920 to go to bed. 1332 00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:56,500 This is Willy. 1333 00:56:56,500 --> 00:56:57,830 This is you in the game. 1334 00:56:57,830 --> 00:57:01,850 So in Jet Set Willy, this is the day after, and Willy is is 1335 00:57:01,850 --> 00:57:04,840 hungover probably after the super party. 1336 00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:05,970 And he was in a bed. 1337 00:57:05,970 --> 00:57:11,080 In the game, to the left, you have the picture of the bed, 1338 00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,470 and that's your goal, go to bed. 1339 00:57:13,470 --> 00:57:17,130 But this is your landlady, who's seen how you trashed the 1340 00:57:17,130 --> 00:57:20,830 place, and she doesn't want you to go to bed until you've 1341 00:57:20,830 --> 00:57:22,230 cleaned it up. 1342 00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:25,500 So the cool thing, they really want to get-- 1343 00:57:25,500 --> 00:57:28,630 and then, the animation here-- 1344 00:57:28,630 --> 00:57:32,370 is that she has her arms like this. 1345 00:57:32,370 --> 00:57:35,290 She's holding her arms like this, and whenever 1346 00:57:35,290 --> 00:57:37,599 you get near her-- 1347 00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:39,048 which arm is it?-- 1348 00:57:39,048 --> 00:57:41,946 her left arm, she goes like, ha! 1349 00:57:41,946 --> 00:57:43,400 Go. 1350 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,410 And it's a reaction to what you do. 1351 00:57:45,410 --> 00:57:47,420 With this, it's a few pixels. 1352 00:57:47,420 --> 00:57:49,060 It's probably four or five pixels. 1353 00:57:49,060 --> 00:57:51,940 And in four or five pixels, this game is telling you this 1354 00:57:51,940 --> 00:57:52,950 is what you have to do. 1355 00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:54,190 Go that way. 1356 00:57:54,190 --> 00:57:55,020 This is your goal, you asked me. 1357 00:57:55,020 --> 00:58:00,108 You've gotta come here, go that way, and clean it up. 1358 00:58:00,108 --> 00:58:03,060 And this is eight bit pixels! 1359 00:58:03,060 --> 00:58:05,530 And she's telling you all that with just a few pixels. 1360 00:58:05,530 --> 00:58:08,060 You don't really need that much. 1361 00:58:08,060 --> 00:58:11,270 But with that kind of reaction, we always want to, 1362 00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:12,950 again, gives cues. 1363 00:58:12,950 --> 00:58:14,650 What is it that the player has to do? 1364 00:58:14,650 --> 00:58:17,250 We don't need a cut scene. 1365 00:58:17,250 --> 00:58:21,430 With a few pixels, we know what we have to do, right? 1366 00:58:21,430 --> 00:58:22,540 And it's a very difficult game, 1367 00:58:22,540 --> 00:58:25,230 too, for today's standards. 1368 00:58:25,230 --> 00:58:29,120 Anyway, so the conclusion here is that 1369 00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:30,220 why do we need stories? 1370 00:58:30,220 --> 00:58:31,200 Why do we need fictions? 1371 00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:33,700 What do fictional worlds do for us? 1372 00:58:33,700 --> 00:58:36,140 What do themes do for us? 1373 00:58:36,140 --> 00:58:41,085 As we were saying, humans have a tendency the story-icize 1374 00:58:41,085 --> 00:58:42,410 everything. 1375 00:58:42,410 --> 00:58:44,830 We are natural storytellers. 1376 00:58:44,830 --> 00:58:47,390 Some of what these games like Once Upon a Time or 1377 00:58:47,390 --> 00:58:48,370 [? Bloom ?] 1378 00:58:48,370 --> 00:58:52,810 are playing with is because we tell other people what has 1379 00:58:52,810 --> 00:58:54,330 happened to us. 1380 00:58:54,330 --> 00:58:56,520 If you complain about something, you're complaining 1381 00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:58,550 in the form of a story if something might 1382 00:58:58,550 --> 00:59:00,110 have happened to you. 1383 00:59:00,110 --> 00:59:04,810 We understand our experiences as stories, and there are 1384 00:59:04,810 --> 00:59:08,320 different disciplines that have dealt with this from 1385 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:12,610 computer science to psychology. 1386 00:59:12,610 --> 00:59:15,520 How we are making stories about ourselves, how we are 1387 00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,050 making stories about our worlds. 1388 00:59:17,050 --> 00:59:21,400 So having a story, having a game that has a fictional 1389 00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,210 world in which a story can take place is a way of 1390 00:59:24,210 --> 00:59:27,230 understanding the underlying system. 1391 00:59:27,230 --> 00:59:30,300 As I was saying, if we have a game that is called Mafia 1392 00:59:30,300 --> 00:59:35,230 Wars, we already have a goal, we have sets of rules, who we 1393 00:59:35,230 --> 00:59:38,500 are, what is it that we have to do. 1394 00:59:38,500 --> 00:59:40,680 We don't need a lot of-- 1395 00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:44,400 two words have been enough to evoke a lot of that 1396 00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,950 information. 1397 00:59:46,950 --> 00:59:50,830 So the last thing, and this applies a bit more to video 1398 00:59:50,830 --> 00:59:54,470 games, is that by having a story, we're also providing 1399 00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:56,800 consistency to the world. 1400 00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:02,660 When Jesper Juul is talking about incoherent worlds, he's 1401 01:00:02,660 --> 01:00:05,090 really talking about worlds where there's not really a 1402 01:00:05,090 --> 01:00:07,680 story, and there are video games that have awful stories, 1403 01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:08,700 that's true. 1404 01:00:08,700 --> 01:00:11,030 But when you're forced, or when you're thinking about 1405 01:00:11,030 --> 01:00:14,420 your world not only as a fictional world as a 1406 01:00:14,420 --> 01:00:17,270 simulation, but also as a world that has to produce a 1407 01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:20,460 story that makes sense, that is going to provide more 1408 01:00:20,460 --> 01:00:22,340 coherence to the world hopefully. 1409 01:00:22,340 --> 01:00:23,820 We have to [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1410 01:00:23,820 --> 01:00:25,690 But that means that you can take the [UNINTELLIGIBLE] for 1411 01:00:25,690 --> 01:00:26,940 games, [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1412 01:00:30,450 --> 01:00:33,080 And there are things that yes there are complains about, 1413 01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:38,510 like why does Mario have to realize? 1414 01:00:38,510 --> 01:00:39,760 Well, because it's Mario, right? 1415 01:00:42,650 --> 01:00:44,090 Is that part of the story? 1416 01:00:44,090 --> 01:00:49,310 That's one of those no-man's land issues. 1417 01:00:49,310 --> 01:00:53,460 Does that undermine the consistency of the world? 1418 01:00:53,460 --> 01:00:59,450 Maybe the anthological level, the level of the world itself. 1419 01:00:59,450 --> 01:01:02,750 But really, it's more about making sense about the rules. 1420 01:01:02,750 --> 01:01:04,310 What is it-- 1421 01:01:04,310 --> 01:01:07,160 being able to look at the world in a critical way. 1422 01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,070 I'm trying to think of an example of-- 1423 01:01:10,070 --> 01:01:13,028 apart from the three lives of Mario-- 1424 01:01:13,028 --> 01:01:14,462 AUDIENCE: He was a plumber. 1425 01:01:14,462 --> 01:01:15,418 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: What? 1426 01:01:15,418 --> 01:01:16,646 AUDIENCE: I thought you said he was a plumber. 1427 01:01:16,646 --> 01:01:17,330 Oh no, that was in the theme. 1428 01:01:17,330 --> 01:01:23,370 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: No, but for example, Kirby. 1429 01:01:23,370 --> 01:01:29,350 He eats other creatures and spits them. 1430 01:01:29,350 --> 01:01:31,160 Where does it come from? 1431 01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,730 Why does it do that? 1432 01:01:33,730 --> 01:01:36,870 What is the story of Kirby? 1433 01:01:36,870 --> 01:01:39,330 He's kind of cute, but hey, I would watch out with him, 1434 01:01:39,330 --> 01:01:40,770 because he can eat almost anything, and then 1435 01:01:40,770 --> 01:01:41,190 he just dumps it? 1436 01:01:41,190 --> 01:01:43,560 AUDIENCE: Kirby's a weirdly disturbing character. 1437 01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:45,042 [LAUGHTER] 1438 01:01:45,042 --> 01:01:46,153 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes, if you think about 1439 01:01:46,153 --> 01:01:47,018 it in terms of stories. 1440 01:01:47,018 --> 01:01:48,994 But this is kind of wow. 1441 01:01:48,994 --> 01:01:49,982 AUDIENCE: Yoshi, too, right? 1442 01:01:49,982 --> 01:01:50,980 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes. 1443 01:01:50,980 --> 01:01:51,870 And I love Yoshi. 1444 01:01:51,870 --> 01:01:55,260 AUDIENCE: Yeah, and that's another video game character-- 1445 01:01:55,260 --> 01:01:58,340 it seems like one of the reasons why these arguments 1446 01:01:58,340 --> 01:02:00,980 have been raised is because there have been these huge 1447 01:02:00,980 --> 01:02:02,225 piles of inconsistencies. 1448 01:02:02,225 --> 01:02:04,340 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: But the inconsistency has become-- 1449 01:02:04,340 --> 01:02:06,740 I think that when you try to write the story, 1450 01:02:06,740 --> 01:02:07,990 if that makes sense. 1451 01:02:10,650 --> 01:02:14,662 So Yoshi eats creatures and-- 1452 01:02:14,662 --> 01:02:16,030 AUDIENCE: Then he spits them out. 1453 01:02:16,030 --> 01:02:17,280 Each one. 1454 01:02:19,170 --> 01:02:20,790 Depends on which Mario you're talking about, because if it's 1455 01:02:20,790 --> 01:02:21,395 Super Mario World-- 1456 01:02:21,395 --> 01:02:22,050 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: I'm thinking of Yoshi's Island. 1457 01:02:22,050 --> 01:02:22,960 AUDIENCE: Okay, yeah, in Yoshi's Island, 1458 01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:23,792 yeah, he poops eggs. 1459 01:02:23,792 --> 01:02:25,966 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, and is like, hm, and then he 1460 01:02:25,966 --> 01:02:27,690 throws it, and they're like bombs? 1461 01:02:27,690 --> 01:02:29,350 AUDIENCE: Yeah, he throws his eggs at-- 1462 01:02:29,350 --> 01:02:30,600 he uses his eggs as weapons. 1463 01:02:35,125 --> 01:02:37,370 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, but all of those things become 1464 01:02:37,370 --> 01:02:38,610 evident the moment that we start his story 1465 01:02:38,610 --> 01:02:39,400 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1466 01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:41,500 So who is this person, what do they do, why do they do this? 1467 01:02:41,500 --> 01:02:43,740 Wow, it's kind of falling apart. 1468 01:02:43,740 --> 01:02:45,270 So the incoherence-- 1469 01:02:45,270 --> 01:02:47,620 and I'm just thinking that I don't know if you guys will 1470 01:02:47,620 --> 01:02:48,620 really like this or not-- 1471 01:02:48,620 --> 01:02:51,640 but the incoherence comes from the impossibility-- 1472 01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:55,710 or not impossibility, but the problems of trying to make 1473 01:02:55,710 --> 01:02:57,320 this into a story and realizing, well, 1474 01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:58,610 this has not been-- 1475 01:02:58,610 --> 01:03:01,040 this has been thought out as a cool game, and I love Yoshi's 1476 01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:05,480 Island, but as a story, it kind of falls apart. 1477 01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,222 Yes? 1478 01:03:08,222 --> 01:03:11,510 AUDIENCE: I think one of the really glaring inconsistencies 1479 01:03:11,510 --> 01:03:14,760 in a lot of RPGs in particular is that in most of these 1480 01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:19,550 worlds, there's some kind of resurrection card, and there 1481 01:03:19,550 --> 01:03:21,865 are a lot of plots which revolve around character dying 1482 01:03:21,865 --> 01:03:24,267 and that being a bad thing, but then you're like, why 1483 01:03:24,267 --> 01:03:28,210 don't you just use your Phoenix Down or-- 1484 01:03:28,210 --> 01:03:30,500 why do we care if the human is being assassinated, I've got 1485 01:03:30,500 --> 01:03:32,690 this thing in my inventory which will bring him back. 1486 01:03:32,690 --> 01:03:35,232 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes, I wished that about Aeris like a 1487 01:03:35,232 --> 01:03:37,990 thousand times, and no, because this guy kills her? 1488 01:03:37,990 --> 01:03:38,580 Then what kind of-- 1489 01:03:38,580 --> 01:03:41,000 AUDIENCE: The actual conceit there is you're not dead, 1490 01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:43,750 you're just knocked out. 1491 01:03:43,750 --> 01:03:45,950 So it's like smelling salts or something. 1492 01:03:45,950 --> 01:03:47,390 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: But there are games like 1493 01:03:47,390 --> 01:03:50,620 Planescape: Torment where that is incorporated in the-- 1494 01:03:50,620 --> 01:03:54,300 you're immortal, and that's the thing, figuring out why 1495 01:03:54,300 --> 01:03:55,160 you're immortal. 1496 01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:58,520 They make fun of you waking up, and you go like, oh my 1497 01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:02,950 goodness, this really hurts, I feel terrible! 1498 01:04:02,950 --> 01:04:08,560 And then making that problem into an 1499 01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:09,630 essential part of the game. 1500 01:04:09,630 --> 01:04:10,050 Yes? 1501 01:04:10,050 --> 01:04:14,500 AUDIENCE: So, with the RPG thing, the incoherency is how 1502 01:04:14,500 --> 01:04:16,790 so many times when you're in these battles, you're doing 1503 01:04:16,790 --> 01:04:18,000 these incredible things. 1504 01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:22,230 Like you're summoning asteroids or jumping in the 1505 01:04:22,230 --> 01:04:22,460 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1506 01:04:22,460 --> 01:04:25,330 But then in the game world, you get to a ledge, and 1507 01:04:25,330 --> 01:04:26,916 they're like, oh, it's a ledge. 1508 01:04:26,916 --> 01:04:28,640 I have to go around. 1509 01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:30,430 Or it's a gap like this wide. 1510 01:04:30,430 --> 01:04:34,420 I can't step over it because of a bush, oh no! 1511 01:04:34,420 --> 01:04:35,750 What am I going to do? 1512 01:04:35,750 --> 01:04:37,590 There's a bush in the way. 1513 01:04:37,590 --> 01:04:38,520 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: But you're 1514 01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:40,210 thinking diagonals, too. 1515 01:04:40,210 --> 01:04:41,090 What? 1516 01:04:41,090 --> 01:04:44,485 No, I cannot do diagonals. 1517 01:04:44,485 --> 01:04:46,670 AUDIENCE: I think another egregious inconsistency that 1518 01:04:46,670 --> 01:04:49,820 comes up a lot is the-- 1519 01:04:49,820 --> 01:04:52,140 and I think it's explicitly mentioned in the reading-- 1520 01:04:52,140 --> 01:04:56,580 that you're the world savior usually, and on the way, 1521 01:04:56,580 --> 01:05:00,650 you're going to pillage, steal, kill innocent people, 1522 01:05:00,650 --> 01:05:01,860 and it's not going to be a big deal. 1523 01:05:01,860 --> 01:05:06,420 And even in games where they make the endpoint variable, so 1524 01:05:06,420 --> 01:05:08,530 all right, you can either save the world to or be a total 1525 01:05:08,530 --> 01:05:11,350 jerk, and that fixes one problem, they still have the 1526 01:05:11,350 --> 01:05:13,880 problem that during the game, you can alternate back and 1527 01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,330 forth between being really good and really bad, and all 1528 01:05:16,330 --> 01:05:18,510 it does is it kind of swings you one way or the other. 1529 01:05:18,510 --> 01:05:19,630 It's one dimensional. 1530 01:05:19,630 --> 01:05:22,045 So you're sort of just in a spectrum, and if you do five 1531 01:05:22,045 --> 01:05:23,910 really bad things and then five really good things, 1532 01:05:23,910 --> 01:05:25,280 you're back to where you started. 1533 01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:29,750 And that's not necessarily consistent in terms 1534 01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:30,210 storytelling. 1535 01:05:30,210 --> 01:05:33,580 AUDIENCE: Well, there's also the classic inconsistency of 1536 01:05:33,580 --> 01:05:36,990 if I don't save the world, everything will be destroyed, 1537 01:05:36,990 --> 01:05:38,422 but you're still going to charge me 100 1538 01:05:38,422 --> 01:05:39,549 gil for this phoenix? 1539 01:05:39,549 --> 01:05:43,413 [LAUGHTER] 1540 01:05:43,413 --> 01:05:45,400 AUDIENCE: It's still inconsistent. 1541 01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:48,130 AUDIENCE: Or, I have to save the world now because bad 1542 01:05:48,130 --> 01:05:48,890 things are happening. 1543 01:05:48,890 --> 01:05:50,887 Let me go do these 20 side quests first. 1544 01:05:50,887 --> 01:05:52,835 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: The whole world is that-- 1545 01:05:52,835 --> 01:05:54,783 AUDIENCE: This cat's stuck in a tree! 1546 01:05:54,783 --> 01:05:56,244 [LAUGHTER] 1547 01:05:56,244 --> 01:05:57,687 AUDIENCE: There're rats in the cellar, 1548 01:05:57,687 --> 01:05:58,310 man, rats in the cellar. 1549 01:05:58,310 --> 01:06:00,550 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes, but the end of the world is nigh. 1550 01:06:00,550 --> 01:06:03,010 Like in Final Fantasy, the end of the world is nigh, but let 1551 01:06:03,010 --> 01:06:03,160 me go around-- 1552 01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:03,580 AUDIENCE: Blitzball! 1553 01:06:03,580 --> 01:06:06,767 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: --and get more random encounters so 1554 01:06:06,767 --> 01:06:08,350 that I can bump up my stats. 1555 01:06:08,350 --> 01:06:10,210 AUDIENCE: So that actually reminds me of-- 1556 01:06:10,210 --> 01:06:11,230 I think it was a web-comic-- 1557 01:06:11,230 --> 01:06:15,880 that I read around a month ago, and it was based around, 1558 01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:17,360 oh my god, you're our savior! 1559 01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:18,310 You know how to solve it! 1560 01:06:18,310 --> 01:06:21,310 Yes, I am, and so the whole time, he's just going on, 1561 01:06:21,310 --> 01:06:22,802 like, what are you doing? 1562 01:06:22,802 --> 01:06:26,280 They're raping and pillaging everything, they're destroying 1563 01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:27,820 everything, what are you doing? 1564 01:06:27,820 --> 01:06:30,220 Oh, I'll do that in a second, I just have to get this 1565 01:06:30,220 --> 01:06:32,960 really, really cool shield. 1566 01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,910 And then at one point it's like, why, what are you doing? 1567 01:06:35,910 --> 01:06:38,620 It's like, I'm fishing, so I can get this lure, so I can 1568 01:06:38,620 --> 01:06:41,700 catch another fish. 1569 01:06:41,700 --> 01:06:44,570 Why would you ever be doing this right now when the 1570 01:06:44,570 --> 01:06:46,925 world's about to end, and evil is spreading across 1571 01:06:46,925 --> 01:06:47,350 everything? 1572 01:06:47,350 --> 01:06:49,581 He's like, don't worry about it, I'm on it. 1573 01:06:49,581 --> 01:06:51,145 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Well, it's very interesting. 1574 01:06:51,145 --> 01:06:54,400 And this is my last slide, so if you want to-- 1575 01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:55,570 we can go on discussing. 1576 01:06:55,570 --> 01:06:56,442 PROFESSOR: Sure. 1577 01:06:56,442 --> 01:07:00,210 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: So at times, the little cues that 1578 01:07:00,210 --> 01:07:03,330 are building world or building character can also backfire. 1579 01:07:03,330 --> 01:07:09,330 So I've been playing one of the DS Zelda games, and one of 1580 01:07:09,330 --> 01:07:12,230 the nicest touches is that whenever you meet a character, 1581 01:07:12,230 --> 01:07:14,800 Link is going to look at them in the eye. 1582 01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:16,030 Hi! 1583 01:07:16,030 --> 01:07:18,700 You're walking, and it's like, hi. 1584 01:07:18,700 --> 01:07:21,265 And at times it's super weird, because the characters look at 1585 01:07:21,265 --> 01:07:21,730 each other. 1586 01:07:21,730 --> 01:07:24,960 They acknowledge that they're there, so they feel kind of 1587 01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:29,600 alive with a very simple algorithm, where there's 1588 01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:31,040 another character, they look at each other. 1589 01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:33,520 It's like, wow, they're alive, cool, and they react. 1590 01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:35,430 But then, you go into somebody's house, and they're 1591 01:07:35,430 --> 01:07:37,140 looking at you and you're like, hi! 1592 01:07:37,140 --> 01:07:38,100 [BREAKING SOUND] 1593 01:07:38,100 --> 01:07:38,720 You know? 1594 01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:40,584 You break their pots to get rupees. 1595 01:07:40,584 --> 01:07:42,914 And they're looking at you, and you're breaking 1596 01:07:42,914 --> 01:07:44,320 everything. 1597 01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:46,470 And it's just like, this is kind of weird. 1598 01:07:46,470 --> 01:07:48,710 They should react, because they're looking at you while 1599 01:07:48,710 --> 01:07:51,588 you're breaking their house. 1600 01:07:51,588 --> 01:07:57,880 And that's, again, is giving a touch that is making those 1601 01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:00,610 characters alive, but it's also like breaking it, like, 1602 01:08:00,610 --> 01:08:01,785 I'm still breaking your pots. 1603 01:08:01,785 --> 01:08:03,108 I don't know what's better. 1604 01:08:03,108 --> 01:08:08,440 AUDIENCE: I think that was subverted in-- 1605 01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:12,930 no, in another Zelda game, Link's Awakening? 1606 01:08:12,930 --> 01:08:16,022 You go into the shop, and the shop owner is always looking 1607 01:08:16,022 --> 01:08:18,136 at you, so if you take something off the shelf and 1608 01:08:18,136 --> 01:08:19,850 try to exit, he says, no, you can't do that, 1609 01:08:19,850 --> 01:08:20,990 you can't steal it. 1610 01:08:20,990 --> 01:08:24,040 But if you run around him, he's not fast enough to keep 1611 01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:26,456 his eye on you, so you run around him until he's looking 1612 01:08:26,456 --> 01:08:29,410 away, and you can leave. 1613 01:08:29,410 --> 01:08:31,979 But if you come back in, he says, you're the guy who stole 1614 01:08:31,979 --> 01:08:33,689 something, and he shoots you with a laser. 1615 01:08:33,689 --> 01:08:35,689 [LAUGHTER] 1616 01:08:35,689 --> 01:08:37,949 AUDIENCE: And then every character in the game calls 1617 01:08:37,949 --> 01:08:39,355 you "thief" for the rest of the game. 1618 01:08:39,355 --> 01:08:40,267 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Ah, that's really funny. 1619 01:08:40,267 --> 01:08:42,547 AUDIENCE: Yeah, it's awesome. 1620 01:08:42,547 --> 01:08:45,798 AUDIENCE: I was going to say, Oblivion and Fallout do the 1621 01:08:45,798 --> 01:08:49,330 same, where everyone watches you if they're within-- 1622 01:08:49,330 --> 01:08:51,380 if they're acknowledging you, and then you try to take 1623 01:08:51,380 --> 01:08:53,470 something, they're run up and be like, why the hell are you 1624 01:08:53,470 --> 01:08:56,640 taking my stuff, or start beating you up or whatever. 1625 01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:56,979 AUDIENCE: Or shooting you. 1626 01:08:56,979 --> 01:08:59,180 AUDIENCE: Or calling the town guard. 1627 01:08:59,180 --> 01:09:01,760 But it's problematic when you're powerful enough and you 1628 01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:03,540 can take the town guard. 1629 01:09:03,540 --> 01:09:04,960 Then it's just really annoying because everywhere you go, 1630 01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:07,116 there's guys you can kill that are kind of there, and you're 1631 01:09:07,116 --> 01:09:10,920 like, all right, come on, get out of my way. 1632 01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:14,629 AUDIENCE: So there was a Mega Man Legends which I don't know 1633 01:09:14,629 --> 01:09:15,520 if anybody ever played. 1634 01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,590 I don't think anyone ever played that game. 1635 01:09:17,590 --> 01:09:20,322 But essentially it was like Mega Man, but the 1636 01:09:20,322 --> 01:09:22,050 RPG style of game. 1637 01:09:22,050 --> 01:09:25,279 But it was actually slightly different from most RPGs. 1638 01:09:25,279 --> 01:09:27,500 Most RPGs, you just walk around, walking into people's 1639 01:09:27,500 --> 01:09:29,020 houses, looking for loot. 1640 01:09:29,020 --> 01:09:31,740 But you actually couldn't just walk into people's houses. 1641 01:09:31,740 --> 01:09:33,190 Their doors would be locked. 1642 01:09:33,190 --> 01:09:36,573 And you could knock and see if anybody was there, but it was 1643 01:09:36,573 --> 01:09:38,284 kind of interesting, because it was actually consistent, in 1644 01:09:38,284 --> 01:09:40,560 the sense that you couldn't just randomly walk into 1645 01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:43,359 somebody's house and steal their crap. 1646 01:09:43,359 --> 01:09:46,010 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: So one thing that I wanted to ask-- 1647 01:09:46,010 --> 01:09:48,520 because all these things in video games, after a while, 1648 01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:50,260 they result in [UNINTELLIGIBLE], right? 1649 01:09:50,260 --> 01:09:53,510 Because we have the possibility of having a 1650 01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:58,780 fleshed out world that we can interact with, that is 1651 01:09:58,780 --> 01:10:03,280 simulated, and the times where those cracks are showing, 1652 01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:05,080 where the system is is showing, when it's showing 1653 01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:08,085 that this is limited, that we've chosen a specific level 1654 01:10:08,085 --> 01:10:12,050 of abstraction to simulate the world. 1655 01:10:12,050 --> 01:10:18,800 But do those incongruencies bother people in board games 1656 01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:20,050 or card games so much? 1657 01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:25,490 AUDIENCE: I would argue that sometimes it's a little bit of 1658 01:10:25,490 --> 01:10:30,440 a speed bump to learning what's going on. 1659 01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:32,765 Assuming some [UNINTELLIGIBLE], assuming 1660 01:10:32,765 --> 01:10:35,100 that is incoherent. 1661 01:10:35,100 --> 01:10:39,517 It seems like because it's almost impossible to play a 1662 01:10:39,517 --> 01:10:41,409 card game or a board game without first understanding 1663 01:10:41,409 --> 01:10:44,090 the rules, unlike in video games where you can just jump 1664 01:10:44,090 --> 01:10:49,190 right in, that is usually something that can be 1665 01:10:49,190 --> 01:10:53,772 surmounted if people say, oh, the rules say this, but the 1666 01:10:53,772 --> 01:10:56,197 theme says that, OK, I understand how to play by the 1667 01:10:56,197 --> 01:10:59,080 rules, and be able to step over that. 1668 01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:00,340 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, and I think that that's an 1669 01:11:00,340 --> 01:11:03,060 excellent point, and when we start playing a board game, 1670 01:11:03,060 --> 01:11:05,970 probably what you guys do in this class, is you get a new 1671 01:11:05,970 --> 01:11:06,480 board game. 1672 01:11:06,480 --> 01:11:07,020 What do you do? 1673 01:11:07,020 --> 01:11:09,865 You pick up the instructions and you're figuring out the 1674 01:11:09,865 --> 01:11:11,630 rules first, and not the world. 1675 01:11:11,630 --> 01:11:15,850 In a lot of video games, we figure out the world first, 1676 01:11:15,850 --> 01:11:17,800 and then by exploring the world, we're 1677 01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:18,640 figuring out the rules. 1678 01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:22,040 And even if there are games that are giving us tutorials 1679 01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:24,320 or manuals, who-- 1680 01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:28,370 I don't know, not many people read the manuals, if at all. 1681 01:11:28,370 --> 01:11:29,330 AUDIENCE: While the game is installing. 1682 01:11:29,330 --> 01:11:32,630 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes, [INAUDIBLE]. 1683 01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:35,450 But manuals is not something that-- 1684 01:11:35,450 --> 01:11:37,600 even though it's going to be the first thing to look at in 1685 01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:41,260 a board game and a card game. 1686 01:11:41,260 --> 01:11:47,980 And even, well, as a player, you also look at the rule book 1687 01:11:47,980 --> 01:11:51,750 at least to built your own character most times. 1688 01:11:51,750 --> 01:11:53,240 AUDIENCE: You mean on PC and computer games? 1689 01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:53,935 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: On role-playing games. 1690 01:11:53,935 --> 01:11:57,655 AUDIENCE: Oh, are you talking about table 1691 01:11:57,655 --> 01:11:58,500 top role-play games? 1692 01:11:58,500 --> 01:11:59,400 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yes, table top. 1693 01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:01,115 AUDIENCE: Oh yeah, even table top role-playing 1694 01:12:01,115 --> 01:12:02,340 games you try to start. 1695 01:12:02,340 --> 01:12:04,890 People start by looking at their handbooks. 1696 01:12:04,890 --> 01:12:06,345 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: LARPing might be a 1697 01:12:06,345 --> 01:12:08,480 good example of how-- 1698 01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:10,790 LARPing, you're just given your 1699 01:12:10,790 --> 01:12:11,590 AUDIENCE: Your character sheet. 1700 01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:11,900 You have to read it. 1701 01:12:11,900 --> 01:12:13,230 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Your character sheet, which is very 1702 01:12:13,230 --> 01:12:15,250 interesting. 1703 01:12:15,250 --> 01:12:18,370 AUDIENCE: For role-playing, I know a lot of people who can't 1704 01:12:18,370 --> 01:12:20,770 really be bothered to learn the rules that thoroughly and 1705 01:12:20,770 --> 01:12:24,375 prefer just to experience the story and have somebody tell 1706 01:12:24,375 --> 01:12:25,885 them how to resolve the mechanics and 1707 01:12:25,885 --> 01:12:26,990 that kind of thing. 1708 01:12:26,990 --> 01:12:30,080 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: But it's funny, because when you're 1709 01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:34,000 building your character in a table top role-playing game, 1710 01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:38,610 you still have to have a look at what is the race that you 1711 01:12:38,610 --> 01:12:40,920 want, what is your religion, what is your powers that you 1712 01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,490 want to choose? 1713 01:12:43,490 --> 01:12:46,717 Even if you're only playing for kicks, and you don't care 1714 01:12:46,717 --> 01:12:47,989 so much about the rule. 1715 01:12:47,989 --> 01:12:51,375 And I'm the type of table top role-player that prefers the 1716 01:12:51,375 --> 01:12:54,980 story, and I don't care so much about combat. 1717 01:12:54,980 --> 01:12:58,270 But you still have to know the rules even before you start 1718 01:12:58,270 --> 01:12:59,530 playing, if that makes sense. 1719 01:12:59,530 --> 01:13:01,390 AUDIENCE: There are situations [UNINTELLIGIBLE] described 1720 01:13:01,390 --> 01:13:04,390 where people don't look at the rules, but then they're 1721 01:13:04,390 --> 01:13:06,543 usually relying on the GM to tell them what's allowed and 1722 01:13:06,543 --> 01:13:08,850 what's not allowed, which means someone read the rules. 1723 01:13:08,850 --> 01:13:11,249 It's no different from someone explaining to you a card game, 1724 01:13:11,249 --> 01:13:12,235 as opposed to having the rules-- 1725 01:13:12,235 --> 01:13:14,700 AUDIENCE: It actually makes the experience a bit like 1726 01:13:14,700 --> 01:13:18,020 playing a computer game, that the GM does the 1727 01:13:18,020 --> 01:13:19,270 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1728 01:13:19,270 --> 01:13:21,396 AUDIENCE: Yeah, the GM is your computer, and in fact it's 1729 01:13:21,396 --> 01:13:23,952 more powerful than a computer, because a GM can figure out 1730 01:13:23,952 --> 01:13:25,928 what you're actually asking. 1731 01:13:25,928 --> 01:13:29,880 [LAUGHTER] 1732 01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,350 [INAUDIBLE] 1733 01:13:32,350 --> 01:13:34,820 AUDIENCE: I had a question about the 1734 01:13:34,820 --> 01:13:35,820 [UNINTELLIGIBLE], actually. 1735 01:13:35,820 --> 01:13:39,250 So one thing about card games and board games is that almost 1736 01:13:39,250 --> 01:13:43,360 everything that gets revealed or that happens in the middle 1737 01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:49,000 of the game is usually a player mechanics. 1738 01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:52,310 Sometimes there's some loose flexibility, like games where 1739 01:13:52,310 --> 01:13:56,910 they allow open negotiation between specific players. 1740 01:13:56,910 --> 01:13:59,080 But most of it's actually in the play of a card, the move 1741 01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:01,120 of a piece, something like that. 1742 01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:04,270 And especially when you're playing cards, you have to 1743 01:14:04,270 --> 01:14:07,980 play flavor text, especially for cards where you can just 1744 01:14:07,980 --> 01:14:10,440 play them at any time. 1745 01:14:10,440 --> 01:14:14,100 And I've seen micronarratives done-- 1746 01:14:14,100 --> 01:14:16,034 at least what I think a micronarrative seems to be-- 1747 01:14:16,034 --> 01:14:19,065 done pretty well in those instances. 1748 01:14:19,065 --> 01:14:23,320 In fact, in the example of cards, right, someone tries to 1749 01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:25,410 do something that might win them the game, but you play 1750 01:14:25,410 --> 01:14:29,390 this card, and that denies them the win, but it is tied 1751 01:14:29,390 --> 01:14:32,490 up with some sort of flavor text, some sort of thematic 1752 01:14:32,490 --> 01:14:33,810 element to that card. 1753 01:14:33,810 --> 01:14:36,786 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Well, it could be like-- 1754 01:14:36,786 --> 01:14:39,910 in Monopoly, what is the type of card? 1755 01:14:39,910 --> 01:14:40,510 Those two types of cards. 1756 01:14:40,510 --> 01:14:40,970 AUDIENCE: Go to jail? 1757 01:14:40,970 --> 01:14:41,962 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: No. 1758 01:14:41,962 --> 01:14:42,760 AUDIENCE: Community Chest and Chance? 1759 01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:44,690 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, like the Chance. 1760 01:14:44,690 --> 01:14:46,930 There's Chance when there's something that happens to you, 1761 01:14:46,930 --> 01:14:48,005 but there's also-- 1762 01:14:48,005 --> 01:14:48,770 AUDIENCE: Community Chest. 1763 01:14:48,770 --> 01:14:50,730 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: --the Community Chest, thank you, 1764 01:14:50,730 --> 01:14:51,920 which is something that you play. 1765 01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:55,200 The differences in micronarratives here, what it 1766 01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:58,920 means is something, it's a reaction to player's events. 1767 01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:03,680 It's not something that the player chooses to do. 1768 01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:07,610 Those reaction cards, those are also part of the player's 1769 01:15:07,610 --> 01:15:12,190 narrative, and in a way, the player is choosing, this is 1770 01:15:12,190 --> 01:15:14,440 going to happen now. 1771 01:15:14,440 --> 01:15:16,470 This is what Gloom is about, and these are what these two 1772 01:15:16,470 --> 01:15:18,420 games are about most of the time. 1773 01:15:18,420 --> 01:15:22,110 It's like you're trying to construct a story, and you're 1774 01:15:22,110 --> 01:15:25,500 trying to tamper into somebody else's story, so it's that 1775 01:15:25,500 --> 01:15:27,400 kind of reaction. 1776 01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:29,720 Yeah, we would have to find a name for it. 1777 01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:34,020 But yeah, the micronarrative is referring to something that 1778 01:15:34,020 --> 01:15:35,490 happens as reaction. 1779 01:15:35,490 --> 01:15:38,696 It's not something that the player does. 1780 01:15:38,696 --> 01:15:40,310 AUDIENCE: It's often in reaction to what another 1781 01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:40,830 player is doing. 1782 01:15:40,830 --> 01:15:43,698 So it depends on whose point of view you are taking. 1783 01:15:43,698 --> 01:15:47,480 So, I've got a Community Chest card, and I'm holding it until 1784 01:15:47,480 --> 01:15:51,710 somebody else is about to take advantage of a position, and 1785 01:15:51,710 --> 01:15:54,690 then I deny them that. 1786 01:15:54,690 --> 01:15:56,114 So it's still a reaction to what the 1787 01:15:56,114 --> 01:15:57,060 other player is doing. 1788 01:15:57,060 --> 01:15:59,290 AUDIENCE: Well, I just wanted to mention, in terms of 1789 01:15:59,290 --> 01:16:01,386 micronarrative, I don't know, would this 1790 01:16:01,386 --> 01:16:02,600 be a possible example? 1791 01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:04,674 In the board game that we're designing, there's a computer 1792 01:16:04,674 --> 01:16:06,909 in the center that you want to hack, and every time someone 1793 01:16:06,909 --> 01:16:07,970 tries to hack it, it gets weaker. 1794 01:16:07,970 --> 01:16:11,564 So it's sort of a response to someone doing an action on it. 1795 01:16:11,564 --> 01:16:13,110 Would that count as a micronarrative, or is that 1796 01:16:13,110 --> 01:16:15,441 more of a mechanic? 1797 01:16:15,441 --> 01:16:20,630 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: It seems as an event it's 1798 01:16:20,630 --> 01:16:21,360 an important event. 1799 01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:22,350 It's a change of state. 1800 01:16:22,350 --> 01:16:25,680 But I don't know how much of a story it is. 1801 01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:29,370 And there's no science to what constitutes an event or not. 1802 01:16:29,370 --> 01:16:31,636 It's something that's part of my research, it's something 1803 01:16:31,636 --> 01:16:34,480 that I'm going to figure out. 1804 01:16:34,480 --> 01:16:38,160 How can we identify what's an event that is a rule and is 1805 01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:40,550 also an event in the story? 1806 01:16:40,550 --> 01:16:42,650 Because things like disconnecting the computer, or 1807 01:16:42,650 --> 01:16:46,320 hacking the computer, yeah, that seems to 1808 01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:47,550 be clearly an event. 1809 01:16:47,550 --> 01:16:51,300 What if we had each time that it becomes weaker, there is 1810 01:16:51,300 --> 01:16:53,440 something else that you can do. 1811 01:16:53,440 --> 01:16:57,485 So by hacking the computer, there is a new action. 1812 01:16:57,485 --> 01:17:00,610 You get access to new areas of the game, or you 1813 01:17:00,610 --> 01:17:03,080 get a new power up. 1814 01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,500 Or it's easier-- 1815 01:17:05,500 --> 01:17:06,890 for example, if-- 1816 01:17:06,890 --> 01:17:10,060 I'm totally hypothesizing about what your game is 1817 01:17:10,060 --> 01:17:13,040 about-- but if you will have a computer that is controlling 1818 01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:16,660 the security of a place, whenever you hack a certain 1819 01:17:16,660 --> 01:17:23,050 part of the system, it's letting you move faster 1820 01:17:23,050 --> 01:17:25,600 through the board. 1821 01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:32,240 In a way, that might be closer to a micronarrative, because 1822 01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:34,240 it's a reaction, but it's also a consequence. 1823 01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:37,016 AUDIENCE: In that case, in Careers for Girls, when you 1824 01:17:37,016 --> 01:17:39,140 choose to go down a path, is that a micronarrative? 1825 01:17:39,140 --> 01:17:42,406 Because the player chooses and then sort of changes the 1826 01:17:42,406 --> 01:17:43,550 state, [INAUDIBLE]. 1827 01:17:43,550 --> 01:17:46,520 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: I don't know the choices, but the 1828 01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:50,420 events that happen, like what happens when you land on 1829 01:17:50,420 --> 01:17:51,430 something, might be closer. 1830 01:17:51,430 --> 01:17:55,690 And again, it's kind of like, it's a micronarrative? 1831 01:17:55,690 --> 01:18:00,480 AUDIENCE: Careers and Careers for Girls, which I both see as 1832 01:18:00,480 --> 01:18:02,562 really, really appalling-- 1833 01:18:02,562 --> 01:18:03,430 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: I agree. 1834 01:18:03,430 --> 01:18:06,000 AUDIENCE: Seems to be built on micronarratives, the whole 1835 01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:08,480 idea that everywhere you land, something's happening-- 1836 01:18:08,480 --> 01:18:09,660 you're granted something. 1837 01:18:09,660 --> 01:18:11,240 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: But the choice-- what I'm saying is 1838 01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:13,965 that the choice itself is not the micronarrative, it's the 1839 01:18:13,965 --> 01:18:15,215 landing and what happens when you land. 1840 01:18:17,770 --> 01:18:19,270 Oh wow. 1841 01:18:19,270 --> 01:18:20,770 It's almost time. 1842 01:18:20,770 --> 01:18:21,270 Anything else? 1843 01:18:21,270 --> 01:18:23,870 AUDIENCE: I actually wanted to make one last comment about 1844 01:18:23,870 --> 01:18:27,530 emergent stories, particularly the example of The Sims. 1845 01:18:27,530 --> 01:18:29,890 Is anybody familiar with Alice and Kev? 1846 01:18:29,890 --> 01:18:31,030 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1847 01:18:31,030 --> 01:18:32,840 AUDIENCE: Yeah, so Alice and Kev was this really 1848 01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:35,430 interesting experiment that this guy did where he created 1849 01:18:35,430 --> 01:18:37,630 two homeless Sims, a father and-- 1850 01:18:37,630 --> 01:18:38,360 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Ah, yes! 1851 01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:39,220 AUDIENCE: --a daughter. 1852 01:18:39,220 --> 01:18:40,050 AUDIENCE: I think we talked about this-- 1853 01:18:40,050 --> 01:18:46,020 AUDIENCE: And just did a sort of a web-comic style display 1854 01:18:46,020 --> 01:18:49,630 of the lives of these two homeless Sims as she grew up 1855 01:18:49,630 --> 01:18:51,470 and he got older. 1856 01:18:51,470 --> 01:18:58,680 And it almost seemed like it became a role-playing game, 1857 01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:03,380 where the guy playing The Sims became the dungeon master, who 1858 01:19:03,380 --> 01:19:07,470 had created these characters, and then the AIs were playing 1859 01:19:07,470 --> 01:19:09,890 these characters for him. 1860 01:19:09,890 --> 01:19:14,380 In particular, there was this one moment where he gets to a 1861 01:19:14,380 --> 01:19:18,990 part of the story where the daughter has just gotten her 1862 01:19:18,990 --> 01:19:21,100 first paycheck, and she decides to 1863 01:19:21,100 --> 01:19:22,580 donate it to charity. 1864 01:19:22,580 --> 01:19:25,316 And he keeps trying to keep her from donating it to 1865 01:19:25,316 --> 01:19:27,740 charity, but she keeps saying I want to 1866 01:19:27,740 --> 01:19:29,040 donate it to charity. 1867 01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:31,910 So eventually he lets her donate it to charity. 1868 01:19:31,910 --> 01:19:33,710 And it was almost like it was the character's 1869 01:19:33,710 --> 01:19:36,130 choice to donate it. 1870 01:19:36,130 --> 01:19:39,450 At the end of this blog that he did about this specific 1871 01:19:39,450 --> 01:19:43,920 event, he's talking about what does it mean when a video game 1872 01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:47,320 character that you created makes you question your own 1873 01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:48,074 life choices? 1874 01:19:48,074 --> 01:19:49,062 [LAUGHTER] 1875 01:19:49,062 --> 01:19:51,370 AUDIENCE: This is a really interesting thing. 1876 01:19:51,370 --> 01:19:52,630 If you haven't read it, you should check it out. 1877 01:19:52,630 --> 01:19:53,710 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Yeah, on what blog? 1878 01:19:53,710 --> 01:19:55,382 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: I think it's aliceandkev.com, 1879 01:19:55,382 --> 01:19:57,692 something like that. 1880 01:19:57,692 --> 01:20:00,060 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: It's a story of the Sims 3. 1881 01:20:00,060 --> 01:20:01,883 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1882 01:20:01,883 --> 01:20:03,356 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: Any more? 1883 01:20:03,356 --> 01:20:06,547 AUDIENCE: Talking about non-digital games being very 1884 01:20:06,547 --> 01:20:09,130 involved in your character, and I felt like one game I've 1885 01:20:09,130 --> 01:20:11,405 played where I've been very involved with a character is 1886 01:20:11,405 --> 01:20:13,750 Mafia, where there's not a lot of actual 1887 01:20:13,750 --> 01:20:14,550 information given to you. 1888 01:20:14,550 --> 01:20:16,660 People are yelling at you, like, you're the Mafia, the 1889 01:20:16,660 --> 01:20:18,560 way you smiled at him! 1890 01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:20,216 Clearly you guys-- 1891 01:20:20,216 --> 01:20:20,572 I don't know. 1892 01:20:20,572 --> 01:20:23,280 CLARA FERNANDEZ-VARA: So you become the character more by 1893 01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:27,570 how people see you than how you play it? 1894 01:20:27,570 --> 01:20:29,690 AUDIENCE: I guess you're also assigning character to other 1895 01:20:29,690 --> 01:20:33,660 people, reading into their actions and things. 1896 01:20:33,660 --> 01:20:37,130 PROFESSOR: That's a game where the roles are designed by the 1897 01:20:37,130 --> 01:20:38,035 designer, right? 1898 01:20:38,035 --> 01:20:39,470 AUDIENCE: Yeah, but there's only two roles. 1899 01:20:39,470 --> 01:20:39,870 It's not like-- 1900 01:20:39,870 --> 01:20:41,385 AUDIENCE: Well no, there can be a lot of roles. 1901 01:20:41,385 --> 01:20:42,115 AUDIENCE: There's a few roles. 1902 01:20:42,115 --> 01:20:44,910 AUDIENCE: I've seen websites with a whole list of roles, 1903 01:20:44,910 --> 01:20:46,870 and some of them are hilarious. 1904 01:20:46,870 --> 01:20:49,930 AUDIENCE: Seems good. 1905 01:20:49,930 --> 01:20:54,697 In digital games, I feel like there are the games where you 1906 01:20:54,697 --> 01:20:57,020 have a very defined character, unlike this. 1907 01:20:57,020 --> 01:20:59,200 If you have a very defined character in a video game, you 1908 01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:01,370 tend to get into it more, whereas Fable, your character 1909 01:21:01,370 --> 01:21:04,205 isn't defined, and changes based on the actions you use. 1910 01:21:04,205 --> 01:21:06,580 If you're evil, he becomes ugly and he gets 1911 01:21:06,580 --> 01:21:07,530 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] things. 1912 01:21:07,530 --> 01:21:09,410 But I never felt like I identified with the character 1913 01:21:09,410 --> 01:21:13,104 at all versus games that already give me a very strong 1914 01:21:13,104 --> 01:21:15,444 character, and I play a certain way. 1915 01:21:15,444 --> 01:21:18,850 PROFESSOR: That's odd because that's completely-- 1916 01:21:18,850 --> 01:21:21,110 that runs against what you would be trying to do, at 1917 01:21:21,110 --> 01:21:23,100 least, that's why they're marketing games that are 1918 01:21:23,100 --> 01:21:24,590 trying to do it, to make you feel closer to the character 1919 01:21:24,590 --> 01:21:27,505 because it's the reflection of who you are. 1920 01:21:27,505 --> 01:21:30,217 AUDIENCE: I think that Bioshock does a better job of 1921 01:21:30,217 --> 01:21:32,075 that, where you never see the guy. 1922 01:21:32,075 --> 01:21:35,610 So you're always just looking through his eyes, and he has 1923 01:21:35,610 --> 01:21:40,021 essentially no personality, at least, no personality is 1924 01:21:40,021 --> 01:21:41,500 displayed in the game. 1925 01:21:41,500 --> 01:21:43,030 So it's almost as if you are directly 1926 01:21:43,030 --> 01:21:43,860 interacting with the world. 1927 01:21:43,860 --> 01:21:46,540 PROFESSOR: You're given a space to to be-- 1928 01:21:46,540 --> 01:21:50,570 AUDIENCE: To actually project yourself into the game, which 1929 01:21:50,570 --> 01:21:55,030 I think is sort of what Fable was trying to do, but doesn't 1930 01:21:55,030 --> 01:21:56,062 really do a good job of it. 1931 01:21:56,062 --> 01:21:57,890 Because you see him right there, and 1932 01:21:57,890 --> 01:21:59,350 he's clearly not you. 1933 01:21:59,350 --> 01:22:01,580 AUDIENCE: I feel like Torment is a really-- 1934 01:22:01,580 --> 01:22:03,560 Planescape: Torment has a really interesting take on 1935 01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:08,430 this, where the character is essentially who it is that you 1936 01:22:08,430 --> 01:22:11,517 play in that, but there's more to it than that, because 1937 01:22:11,517 --> 01:22:13,892 there's also back story to the character, which you, the 1938 01:22:13,892 --> 01:22:15,660 character, have forgotten, and it's 1939 01:22:15,660 --> 01:22:16,590 revealed to you over time. 1940 01:22:16,590 --> 01:22:21,550 But you know more of that character, who your character 1941 01:22:21,550 --> 01:22:24,710 was back then, than you know about your character now. 1942 01:22:24,710 --> 01:22:27,220 So your nature changes over time, and you've gone through 1943 01:22:27,220 --> 01:22:29,140 several iterations of this. 1944 01:22:29,140 --> 01:22:31,371 And none of them is the truer or more correct you. 1945 01:22:31,371 --> 01:22:33,450 AUDIENCE: The funny thing about Planescape: Torment, 1946 01:22:33,450 --> 01:22:37,390 it's kind of like a personality test. 1947 01:22:37,390 --> 01:22:41,450 I've been playing it again, and the first time I played 1948 01:22:41,450 --> 01:22:45,040 through, I was chaotic good? 1949 01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:46,500 And I was trying to play different. 1950 01:22:46,500 --> 01:22:49,200 I'm still chaotic good. 1951 01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:52,650 So I'm kind of freaking out. 1952 01:22:52,650 --> 01:22:56,150 OK, I'm really trying to do something different, but I'm 1953 01:22:56,150 --> 01:22:58,390 still in the same alignment. 1954 01:22:58,390 --> 01:23:01,380 Because a lot of your definition of-- 1955 01:23:01,380 --> 01:23:04,940 and actually, your alignment can also decide items that you 1956 01:23:04,940 --> 01:23:07,310 can get or things that you can do-- 1957 01:23:07,310 --> 01:23:13,360 but it's based on your choices and how you tackle a quest. 1958 01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:16,410 If you lie, for example, or if you do crazy things. 1959 01:23:19,970 --> 01:23:22,300 It's not something-- 1960 01:23:22,300 --> 01:23:26,660 once you realize what the effect of your choices is, you 1961 01:23:26,660 --> 01:23:27,720 can kind of control it. 1962 01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:29,010 But there's-- 1963 01:23:29,010 --> 01:23:31,630 playing Planescape is-- 1964 01:23:31,630 --> 01:23:35,490 it's going to be about you and how your game playing style is 1965 01:23:35,490 --> 01:23:36,825 [UNINTELLIGIBLE] humanity. 1966 01:23:36,825 --> 01:23:39,437 AUDIENCE: Yeah, there's interesting effects in Knights 1967 01:23:39,437 --> 01:23:43,670 of the Old Republic if anybody's played that. 1968 01:23:43,670 --> 01:23:47,240 You can explicitly make decisions to 1969 01:23:47,240 --> 01:23:49,470 go to the dark side. 1970 01:23:49,470 --> 01:23:52,770 I remember when I played it, every time it came up with a 1971 01:23:52,770 --> 01:23:55,030 decision where I could-- 1972 01:23:55,030 --> 01:23:56,970 the dark side has all the awesome powers, right? 1973 01:23:56,970 --> 01:24:00,030 So I kept thinking, I'm gonna be on the dark side, I'm gonna 1974 01:24:00,030 --> 01:24:02,620 have all the awesome powers, it's gonna be grand. 1975 01:24:02,620 --> 01:24:06,210 Then you get to the decisions, and I was almost uncomfortable 1976 01:24:06,210 --> 01:24:09,010 with choosing the evil options, such that I couldn't 1977 01:24:09,010 --> 01:24:12,182 actually bring myself to go to the dark side. 1978 01:24:12,182 --> 01:24:15,140 PROFESSOR: We are actually out of time. 1979 01:24:15,140 --> 01:24:18,005 But I wouldn't say that-- 1980 01:24:18,005 --> 01:24:22,630 the options are thankfully all-- or, actually, let's save 1981 01:24:22,630 --> 01:24:24,590 discussion of Knights of the Old Republic for another class 1982 01:24:24,590 --> 01:24:26,930 [UNINTELLIGIBLE]. 1983 01:24:26,930 --> 01:24:27,940 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 1984 01:24:27,940 --> 01:24:29,760 OK, all right, well, thank you.