1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,470
The following content is
provided under a Creative

2
00:00:02,470 --> 00:00:03,880
Commons license.

3
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,920
Your support will help MIT
OpenCourseWare continue to

4
00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,570
offer high quality educational
resources for free.

5
00:00:10,570 --> 00:00:13,470
To make a donation or view
additional materials from

6
00:00:13,470 --> 00:00:17,400
hundreds of MIT courses, visit
MIT OpenCourseWare at

7
00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:18,650
ocw.mit.edu.

8
00:00:20,790 --> 00:00:24,290
Some content in this audio is
not covered under a Creative

9
00:00:24,290 --> 00:00:25,440
Commons license.

10
00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,790
For more information see the
course materials on the MIT

11
00:00:29,790 --> 00:00:31,320
OpenCourseWare website.

12
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:32,170
PROFESSOR: All right.

13
00:00:32,170 --> 00:00:37,700
So this, of course, does not
actually mean that you have

14
00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:39,295
more time for assignment
three.

15
00:00:39,295 --> 00:00:41,130
In fact it eats a little
bit of your time

16
00:00:41,130 --> 00:00:42,540
for assignment three.

17
00:00:42,540 --> 00:00:45,360
Sorry about that, but
I think this is a

18
00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,760
net gain for everyone.

19
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:48,030
Right.

20
00:00:48,030 --> 00:00:51,110
With that out of the
way, Mia Consalvo.

21
00:00:51,110 --> 00:00:53,545
Actually, a lot of you probably
are already familiar,

22
00:00:53,545 --> 00:00:54,935
you might have taken
any of her classes.

23
00:00:54,935 --> 00:01:00,904
She is the visiting lecturer--
visiting professor, visiting

24
00:01:00,904 --> 00:01:02,154
professor--

25
00:01:04,260 --> 00:01:07,620
here at GAMBIT.

26
00:01:07,620 --> 00:01:09,110
Are you teaching something
in the spring?

27
00:01:09,110 --> 00:01:10,020
GUEST SPEAKER: Yes.

28
00:01:10,020 --> 00:01:11,940
Cheating and ethics in games.

29
00:01:11,940 --> 00:01:14,090
Brian can tell you
all about it.

30
00:01:14,090 --> 00:01:17,165
PROFESSOR: You can take this
as the sneak preview--

31
00:01:17,165 --> 00:01:18,135
GUEST SPEAKER: Yes.

32
00:01:18,135 --> 00:01:21,530
This is a taster of a little
bit of what we do.

33
00:01:21,530 --> 00:01:23,955
Thanks.

34
00:01:23,955 --> 00:01:25,510
OK.

35
00:01:25,510 --> 00:01:29,250
So it sounds like you all
have lots of opinions,

36
00:01:29,250 --> 00:01:31,190
which will be good.

37
00:01:31,190 --> 00:01:34,959
So to get started-- and
actually, I don't like the

38
00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,000
term lecturer because I don't
get to lecture very much--

39
00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,570
I'm going to start by handing
around some index cards and I

40
00:01:40,570 --> 00:01:45,970
want you to take a few minutes
and generate some examples of

41
00:01:45,970 --> 00:01:51,850
ethical elements, procedures,
episodes, games, the more

42
00:01:51,850 --> 00:01:52,890
specific you can
be the better.

43
00:01:52,890 --> 00:01:55,440
And I'm actually going to
collect these at the end

44
00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,262
because, as Phil mentioned, I'm
teaching this ethics and

45
00:01:59,262 --> 00:02:01,166
games class and I want
to bring in more

46
00:02:01,166 --> 00:02:02,118
examples of this stuff.

47
00:02:02,118 --> 00:02:04,498
So this will actually
be useful for me.

48
00:02:04,498 --> 00:02:06,770
AUDIENCE: Talking
about in games.

49
00:02:06,770 --> 00:02:07,580
GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah.

50
00:02:07,580 --> 00:02:11,740
So we were just talking about
Fable, but if you could think

51
00:02:11,740 --> 00:02:15,810
of a more specific example from
it, a level, different

52
00:02:15,810 --> 00:02:19,195
choices that you get with
characters in certain games,

53
00:02:19,195 --> 00:02:23,187
whatever you can come up with
in terms of are there

54
00:02:23,187 --> 00:02:26,680
interesting ethical dilemmas,
situations.

55
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:27,678
AUDIENCE: Wait.

56
00:02:27,678 --> 00:02:31,750
Is this within the context of
the game, or are we talking

57
00:02:31,750 --> 00:02:34,373
about in a multiplayer game
your conduct with other

58
00:02:34,373 --> 00:02:35,240
players, and this
kind of thing?

59
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,456
AUDIENCE: Or, when I was in
Owen's office whether or not

60
00:02:37,456 --> 00:02:40,050
to steal the swag.

61
00:02:40,050 --> 00:02:42,210
GUEST SPEAKER: You can do it
within MMOs as well, or a

62
00:02:42,210 --> 00:02:45,660
multiplayer game.

63
00:02:45,660 --> 00:02:48,783
You can continue to write
examples [UNINTELLIGIBLE] if

64
00:02:48,783 --> 00:02:50,226
you can think of them.

65
00:02:50,226 --> 00:02:52,150
But just to get you started--

66
00:02:52,150 --> 00:02:53,400
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

67
00:02:57,441 --> 00:02:58,720
GUEST SPEAKER: Well then
you can start by

68
00:02:58,720 --> 00:02:59,412
giving me an example.

69
00:02:59,412 --> 00:03:00,755
AUDIENCE: Sure.

70
00:03:00,755 --> 00:03:01,160
OK.

71
00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:02,800
So I have a couple.

72
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,210
Fighting games, obviously,
there's always kind of

73
00:03:07,210 --> 00:03:09,800
questions and debate about
whether something's cheap or

74
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,680
viable or should you be
allowed to do it.

75
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,792
Yeah, so if maybe--

76
00:03:15,792 --> 00:03:18,072
I'm trying to think how to
describe it-- so, people who

77
00:03:18,072 --> 00:03:21,310
play casually will tend to say,
oh, if you do this with

78
00:03:21,310 --> 00:03:23,860
this character then it's cheap
and you shouldn't do that,

79
00:03:23,860 --> 00:03:27,958
whereas the community at large
and people who play seriously

80
00:03:27,958 --> 00:03:30,946
tend to say, well, if you can
do something you should be

81
00:03:30,946 --> 00:03:34,183
allowed to do it, and if
you can't overcome it

82
00:03:34,183 --> 00:03:36,080
that's your own fault.

83
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:37,000
GUEST SPEAKER: OK.

84
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,390
So violating a community norm?

85
00:03:39,390 --> 00:03:40,550
AUDIENCE: Yeah
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

86
00:03:40,550 --> 00:03:43,914
GUEST SPEAKER: Even if it's
allowed in the rules but it's

87
00:03:43,914 --> 00:03:45,882
against a community norm.

88
00:03:45,882 --> 00:03:47,132
OK.

89
00:03:53,262 --> 00:03:57,230
It's like using
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

90
00:03:57,230 --> 00:03:59,720
You hadn't thought about that.

91
00:04:16,154 --> 00:04:16,652
Evan?

92
00:04:16,652 --> 00:04:17,648
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

93
00:04:17,648 --> 00:04:19,142
GUEST SPEAKER: Oh, sorry.

94
00:04:19,142 --> 00:04:21,134
AUDIENCE: I have a bunch of
stuff, which is related to

95
00:04:21,134 --> 00:04:24,640
griefing just generally.

96
00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:30,180
So let's just go for the one
which is one of my favorites.

97
00:04:30,180 --> 00:04:34,255
So this is griefing for comic
effect, or role playing

98
00:04:34,255 --> 00:04:38,390
griefing but doing it in a way
which you are then going to

99
00:04:38,390 --> 00:04:39,350
write a blog about.

100
00:04:39,350 --> 00:04:42,510
And from your character's
perspective the

101
00:04:42,510 --> 00:04:44,010
griefing makes sense.

102
00:04:44,010 --> 00:04:47,770
So there is a particular player
that played EverQuest.

103
00:04:47,770 --> 00:04:50,860
His name is Fansy
the Famous Bard.

104
00:04:50,860 --> 00:04:58,150
He was on the good team's side
and he griefed evil because

105
00:04:58,150 --> 00:05:00,210
evil is bad.

106
00:05:00,210 --> 00:05:02,900
So people who had played evil
characters, he would run

107
00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:05,730
around and annoy in a really
frustrating way, which

108
00:05:05,730 --> 00:05:09,048
eventually caused the makers
of EverQuest to change the

109
00:05:09,048 --> 00:05:12,025
rules of the server so that
people could kill him, where

110
00:05:12,025 --> 00:05:13,755
previously they weren't
allowed to.

111
00:05:13,755 --> 00:05:15,930
GUEST SPEAKER: What did he do?

112
00:05:15,930 --> 00:05:19,790
AUDIENCE: There was this
mechanic in EverQuest where if

113
00:05:19,790 --> 00:05:22,834
you were close to a monster
it became aggressive

114
00:05:22,834 --> 00:05:24,100
and attacked you.

115
00:05:24,100 --> 00:05:27,220
So he had a low level character
who was able to run

116
00:05:27,220 --> 00:05:28,280
really fast and--

117
00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:29,000
GUEST SPEAKER: I have
heard of him.

118
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,720
AUDIENCE: --he would run around
and then run over the

119
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,976
top of evil people, and then the
monsters would detach from

120
00:05:34,976 --> 00:05:38,554
him and then kill them.

121
00:05:38,554 --> 00:05:44,360
Oh yeah, and the catch
was that the server

122
00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,260
was a mobile server.

123
00:05:46,260 --> 00:05:49,250
Aside from-- that is why-- so
you can't complain to GMs

124
00:05:49,250 --> 00:05:53,970
about a player's behavior,
aside from there was a

125
00:05:53,970 --> 00:05:57,890
built-in protection for players
so that if they're

126
00:05:57,890 --> 00:06:01,460
level four or below-- so a very
low level-- they can't be

127
00:06:01,460 --> 00:06:03,670
killed by higher
level players.

128
00:06:03,670 --> 00:06:05,650
And so he just sat on
the cusp of that.

129
00:06:05,650 --> 00:06:08,398
Yet there's still a way to use
his ability to go around and

130
00:06:08,398 --> 00:06:09,780
grief people from
a higher level.

131
00:06:09,780 --> 00:06:11,000
It was pretty great.

132
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,600
And he did it all totally in
character as well, which is

133
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,254
what makes this a good grief.

134
00:06:21,611 --> 00:06:23,559
AUDIENCE: Is that me?

135
00:06:23,559 --> 00:06:24,809
OK.

136
00:06:26,968 --> 00:06:31,838
I think of Portal when they ask
you to use your portable

137
00:06:31,838 --> 00:06:32,325
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

138
00:06:32,325 --> 00:06:34,145
GUEST SPEAKER: [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

139
00:06:34,145 --> 00:06:35,500
You get to burn up the Cube.

140
00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:36,150
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

141
00:06:36,150 --> 00:06:37,955
You don't want to, and
they make you.

142
00:06:37,955 --> 00:06:41,507
And you've tried to leave
without it a few times and you

143
00:06:41,507 --> 00:06:43,735
try to break the machine
and it doesn't work.

144
00:06:43,735 --> 00:06:45,220
It's very sad.

145
00:06:45,220 --> 00:06:47,695
GUEST SPEAKER: I feel bad.

146
00:06:47,695 --> 00:06:48,685
[INAUDIBLE]

147
00:06:48,685 --> 00:06:48,808
OK.

148
00:06:48,808 --> 00:06:49,180
How about you?

149
00:06:49,180 --> 00:06:53,434
AUDIENCE: I thought of Jason
Rohrer's Sleep Is Death.

150
00:06:53,434 --> 00:06:55,382
GUEST SPEAKER: What
is that like?

151
00:06:55,382 --> 00:06:57,750
AUDIENCE: It's a more of like a
story telling tool where you

152
00:06:57,750 --> 00:07:01,120
have one player that can control
the 2D world and then

153
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,859
you have one player who is
the player, and they can

154
00:07:03,859 --> 00:07:05,104
interact with it.

155
00:07:05,104 --> 00:07:08,390
And each player has 30 seconds
to make some kind of action,

156
00:07:08,390 --> 00:07:10,450
and then you make a story
going back and forth.

157
00:07:10,450 --> 00:07:13,020
And what happens is--

158
00:07:13,020 --> 00:07:16,930
you can play online with people,
and the controller

159
00:07:16,930 --> 00:07:19,800
character or player will have
some kind of story that they

160
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:20,250
want to tell.

161
00:07:20,250 --> 00:07:23,290
And so it's up to the player
whether or not they want to go

162
00:07:23,290 --> 00:07:25,690
along with the story and act
like a character in that world

163
00:07:25,690 --> 00:07:28,360
or try and break the story.

164
00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:29,300
GUEST SPEAKER: OK.

165
00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:30,240
What's the name of it again?

166
00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:31,150
AUDIENCE: Sleep Is Death.

167
00:07:31,150 --> 00:07:34,470
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE].

168
00:07:34,470 --> 00:07:37,935
I forgot what it's called.

169
00:07:37,935 --> 00:07:41,895
GUEST SPEAKER: Actually that's
more griefing, would you say?

170
00:07:41,895 --> 00:07:43,380
AUDIENCE: Kind of.

171
00:07:46,350 --> 00:07:48,330
AUDIENCE: Is that by the same
person as [INAUDIBLE]

172
00:07:48,330 --> 00:07:48,825
Passage?

173
00:07:48,825 --> 00:07:51,300
AUDIENCE: Yes.

174
00:07:51,300 --> 00:07:54,400
AUDIENCE: In Ocarina of Time
there's the treasure box

175
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:55,110
gambling game.

176
00:07:55,110 --> 00:07:57,830
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] achieve if
you use the Lens of Truth.

177
00:07:57,830 --> 00:07:58,865
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]

178
00:07:58,865 --> 00:08:04,696
So there's a built-in mechanic
that allows you to cheat.

179
00:08:04,696 --> 00:08:07,131
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]
legit.

180
00:08:07,131 --> 00:08:10,060
AUDIENCE: Yeah [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

181
00:08:10,060 --> 00:08:14,540
use it anyway so it's not
like a [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

182
00:08:14,540 --> 00:08:16,410
AUDIENCE: I just like include
the [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

183
00:08:19,030 --> 00:08:20,990
AUDIENCE: Lucky man.

184
00:08:20,990 --> 00:08:25,150
AUDIENCE: So in Civ IV for each
and every sector there's

185
00:08:25,150 --> 00:08:29,130
some sort of slavery mechanic,
but I guess in Civ IV's

186
00:08:29,130 --> 00:08:31,070
example I know.

187
00:08:31,070 --> 00:08:35,350
Many players don't seem to mind
the fact that what is

188
00:08:35,350 --> 00:08:38,649
considered slavery is ethically
wrong, but in the

189
00:08:38,649 --> 00:08:43,200
game it's affectionately called
whipping, and it's

190
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,480
considered a very efficient
way of converting food--

191
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:45,840
GUEST SPEAKER: What's
it called?

192
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:46,730
AUDIENCE: Whipping.

193
00:08:46,730 --> 00:08:48,710
AUDIENCE: Whipping.

194
00:08:48,710 --> 00:08:51,185
AUDIENCE: You whip and then
you [INTERPOSING VOICES]

195
00:08:55,145 --> 00:08:56,135
GUEST SPEAKER: OK.

196
00:08:56,135 --> 00:08:59,245
So it's efficient but
it's slavery.

197
00:08:59,245 --> 00:09:02,330
AUDIENCE: You use granaries to
offset the population loss,

198
00:09:02,330 --> 00:09:03,700
and if you [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

199
00:09:03,700 --> 00:09:09,000
farms it becomes a very
effective way to produce,

200
00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,440
especially in the
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

201
00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,757
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]
a lot of people that way.

202
00:09:18,224 --> 00:09:21,206
AUDIENCE: So in The
Sims [INAUDIBLE].

203
00:09:29,286 --> 00:09:31,405
GUEST SPEAKER: But you
have to watch them

204
00:09:31,405 --> 00:09:32,709
flail around and die.

205
00:09:32,709 --> 00:09:35,690
AUDIENCE: And they get
tired and [INAUDIBLE]

206
00:09:43,900 --> 00:09:47,200
AUDIENCE: A more obscure example
that goes along with

207
00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,440
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] griefing is
discussions over the point in

208
00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,510
the game the community
is in MMOs.

209
00:09:54,510 --> 00:09:59,410
Specifically, there was
apparently a huge problem in

210
00:09:59,410 --> 00:10:03,550
an obscure MMO called Skyress
where a large community of the

211
00:10:03,550 --> 00:10:05,660
players was there to basically
anthropomorph and RP.

212
00:10:05,660 --> 00:10:09,110
A large community of the players
was there to play to

213
00:10:09,110 --> 00:10:12,110
win because it had a large
combat economy system.

214
00:10:12,110 --> 00:10:16,820
And this, tactically, almost
tore the game apart because it

215
00:10:16,820 --> 00:10:20,910
was such a small number of
people over what should be the

216
00:10:20,910 --> 00:10:23,165
point to this game when,
mechanically, somebody thinks

217
00:10:23,165 --> 00:10:24,760
they're alive.

218
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:30,870
Also in Canara Rey you can blow
up people, and they'll

219
00:10:30,870 --> 00:10:32,569
even put the star.

220
00:10:32,569 --> 00:10:36,241
It was traumatizing.

221
00:10:36,241 --> 00:10:39,424
AUDIENCE: Yeah, but they're in
a giant ball of awesome.

222
00:10:39,424 --> 00:10:40,828
AUDIENCE: That's true.

223
00:10:40,828 --> 00:10:43,935
GUEST SPEAKER: Well, it's
not really murder but--

224
00:10:43,935 --> 00:10:46,080
AUDIENCE: I didn't want
to get starred.

225
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:47,550
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

226
00:10:47,550 --> 00:10:49,020
AUDIENCE: It's starification.

227
00:10:53,430 --> 00:10:55,790
AUDIENCE: If they don't
suffocate on the inside of the

228
00:10:55,790 --> 00:10:56,750
kevlar first.

229
00:10:56,750 --> 00:10:58,670
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

230
00:10:58,670 --> 00:11:00,542
GUEST SPEAKER: It's like the
Borg, once you're in there you

231
00:11:00,542 --> 00:11:02,510
know it's a better way
of [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

232
00:11:02,510 --> 00:11:05,890
You're grateful.

233
00:11:05,890 --> 00:11:15,210
AUDIENCE: So in F.E.A.R there's
a nail gun, and when

234
00:11:15,210 --> 00:11:19,600
you kill people with it the game
does a really good job of

235
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,970
spectacularly nailing them to
surfaces in the environment.

236
00:11:23,970 --> 00:11:27,460
So if someone jumps and you
shoot them in the shoulder you

237
00:11:27,460 --> 00:11:29,110
can nail them up
to the ceiling.

238
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:31,540
And if you nail them multiple
times you can have them

239
00:11:31,540 --> 00:11:33,955
hanging by a hand, and by their
head, and by a foot from

240
00:11:33,955 --> 00:11:36,060
the ceiling or from the wall.

241
00:11:36,060 --> 00:11:37,310
Anyway, [INTERPOSING VOICES]

242
00:11:39,310 --> 00:11:45,160
on forums there were entire
threads devoted to sharing

243
00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:51,310
screenshots of your most
spectacular nails, just the

244
00:11:51,310 --> 00:11:54,150
absolutely, most gruesome--

245
00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:57,490
five nails to the eye suspending
a guy from

246
00:11:57,490 --> 00:11:59,443
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]
kind of thing.

247
00:11:59,443 --> 00:12:00,886
And it's pretty--

248
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,370
Anyway, and there's a lot of
debate on these threads

249
00:12:07,370 --> 00:12:08,960
because most people will be
like, yeah, look at this

250
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,410
picture this one's awesome and
everything it has blood

251
00:12:11,410 --> 00:12:12,310
spatters everywhere
and all that.

252
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:14,835
But every third or fourth post
it would be like, you guys are

253
00:12:14,835 --> 00:12:19,330
so messed up, this is wrong.

254
00:12:19,330 --> 00:12:24,650
And it's not real, you idiot,
but that fact that you like it

255
00:12:24,650 --> 00:12:25,790
is still real.

256
00:12:25,790 --> 00:12:29,020
And people would argue at
great lengths over this.

257
00:12:29,020 --> 00:12:31,460
And I remember chancing upon
these forums and being like,

258
00:12:31,460 --> 00:12:33,481
is this messed up?

259
00:12:33,481 --> 00:12:34,320
I'm not sure.

260
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,850
GUEST SPEAKER: So is it more
efficient in the game to use

261
00:12:38,850 --> 00:12:40,530
the nail gun to kill
people than other

262
00:12:40,530 --> 00:12:41,015
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

263
00:12:41,015 --> 00:12:42,770
AUDIENCE: It's a hell
of a lot more fun.

264
00:12:42,770 --> 00:12:44,896
GUEST SPEAKER: OK.

265
00:12:44,896 --> 00:12:47,343
But it's not like the game
forces you to do it if you

266
00:12:47,343 --> 00:12:48,460
would not want to.

267
00:12:48,460 --> 00:12:49,910
AUDIENCE: No it doesn't.

268
00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:52,519
You could use other guns, but
at some point, if you don't

269
00:12:52,519 --> 00:12:54,065
have enough ammo for the other
guns you would switch to the

270
00:12:54,065 --> 00:12:56,560
nail gun, I guess.
it's a good gun.

271
00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:57,950
Shotgun is fun too.

272
00:12:57,950 --> 00:12:59,792
It disintegrates people
at short range.

273
00:13:02,768 --> 00:13:04,580
AUDIENCE: I've now heard they're
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

274
00:13:04,580 --> 00:13:05,050
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

275
00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:06,650
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] turn
people into skeletons.

276
00:13:06,650 --> 00:13:07,250
AUDIENCE: Yes.

277
00:13:07,250 --> 00:13:09,950
That one was in the expansion.

278
00:13:09,950 --> 00:13:11,220
Yes. that was the original,
though.

279
00:13:11,220 --> 00:13:13,808
The sniper rifle is a rail
gun that shoots a beam of

280
00:13:13,808 --> 00:13:15,530
electricity and turns people
into big [UNINTELLIGIBLE] of

281
00:13:15,530 --> 00:13:18,920
flesh off of their bones.

282
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:20,170
AUDIENCE: Delightful.

283
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:24,710
Grand Theft Auto, you can
get a prostitute for

284
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:25,630
money, you get help.

285
00:13:25,630 --> 00:13:28,850
And then eventually you kill the
prostitute, and get your

286
00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:29,850
money back.

287
00:13:29,850 --> 00:13:32,080
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

288
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,730
AUDIENCE: And then some of the
ones related to that is

289
00:13:34,730 --> 00:13:38,430
BioShock where you can either
kill the little sisters and

290
00:13:38,430 --> 00:13:43,240
harvest them for lots of good,
or lots of points, rather, or

291
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,280
save them and get a small amount
of points but you feel

292
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,130
better about yourself, which
actually in the end, ends us

293
00:13:48,130 --> 00:13:51,730
being the better way to go.

294
00:13:51,730 --> 00:13:55,340
GUEST SPEAKER: It's like you
get more if you save them?

295
00:13:55,340 --> 00:13:57,775
AUDIENCE: If you kill them and
harvest them you get 10

296
00:13:57,775 --> 00:13:58,400
points, let's say.

297
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,750
If you save them you
get five points.

298
00:14:00,750 --> 00:14:04,800
But then after 10 saves you
get a bonus of 100 points.

299
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,910
So it ends up being more
efficient in the long run to

300
00:14:08,910 --> 00:14:12,252
save them, more efficient in
the short run to kill them.

301
00:14:12,252 --> 00:14:13,720
GUEST SPEAKER: And also if
you're going to kill them you

302
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,916
should kill them all.

303
00:14:15,916 --> 00:14:20,636
Don't just knock off one.

304
00:14:20,636 --> 00:14:24,550
AUDIENCE: In Age of Empires III
when you are colonizing

305
00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:26,940
your colony you have the option
of exploiting the

306
00:14:26,940 --> 00:14:30,910
native people to
help you fight.

307
00:14:30,910 --> 00:14:33,475
They just help you fight.

308
00:14:33,475 --> 00:14:38,000
GUEST SPEAKER: How is this
presented to exploit natives?

309
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:43,250
AUDIENCE: You establish an
outpost inside of their

310
00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:47,620
residence area and you
supposedly train with them.

311
00:14:47,620 --> 00:14:49,610
There's nothing really there
in the game, you just

312
00:14:49,610 --> 00:14:52,805
literally put a house of yours
inside of their colony.

313
00:14:52,805 --> 00:14:55,770
AUDIENCE: Also Microsoft's
selling that for $0.10.

314
00:14:55,770 --> 00:14:56,710
AUDIENCE: Empires III?

315
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:57,650
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

316
00:14:57,650 --> 00:14:58,120
AUDIENCE: Why?

317
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,512
AUDIENCE: I think it
was just yesterday.

318
00:15:00,512 --> 00:15:01,820
I'm not sure.

319
00:15:01,820 --> 00:15:03,900
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

320
00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:08,800
AUDIENCE: In inFAMOUS you can
choose whether to be bad or

321
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,740
good, and [UNINTELLIGIBLE] other
people or to help them

322
00:15:11,740 --> 00:15:15,170
survive in a post-apocalyptic
world.

323
00:15:15,170 --> 00:15:20,092
And I guess you can do the
same thing in Fallout.

324
00:15:20,092 --> 00:15:23,760
GUEST SPEAKER: Well
also, inFAMOUS

325
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,605
forces you more to choose.

326
00:15:27,605 --> 00:15:29,990
Remember Ash was playing
that in our class?

327
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:31,843
And she said you really
had to go one way or

328
00:15:31,843 --> 00:15:32,790
the other to get--

329
00:15:32,790 --> 00:15:36,530
on either end of the spectrum
there were special abilities.

330
00:15:36,530 --> 00:15:37,990
If you stayed in the middle
you got nothing.

331
00:15:40,980 --> 00:15:45,394
Although there are certain
things you can build off of.

332
00:15:45,394 --> 00:15:46,820
AUDIENCE: So there's also
getting a following.

333
00:15:46,820 --> 00:15:50,332
You can gain people that
travel with you.

334
00:15:50,332 --> 00:15:53,128
Like based off if you're
good, neutral, or bad.

335
00:15:53,128 --> 00:15:54,530
AUDIENCE: I'm sorry.

336
00:15:54,530 --> 00:15:58,230
I was going to say, in Fallout
3 there's one particularly

337
00:15:58,230 --> 00:16:01,980
really good example where you
get trapped in this dream

338
00:16:01,980 --> 00:16:04,810
world that this guy is creating
for you and a bunch

339
00:16:04,810 --> 00:16:07,650
of other people, which you don't
know that it's a dream

340
00:16:07,650 --> 00:16:08,890
world at first.

341
00:16:08,890 --> 00:16:10,920
You know it's a dream or
something but you don't know

342
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,840
that these are real people and
they're dreaming with you.

343
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,886
And he tells you to kill the
other people in the dream in

344
00:16:17,886 --> 00:16:20,530
order to let you get out because
he is in complete

345
00:16:20,530 --> 00:16:22,510
control of it.

346
00:16:22,510 --> 00:16:24,540
You can kill them and you'll
get out fine and all the

347
00:16:24,540 --> 00:16:26,170
people will be dead.

348
00:16:26,170 --> 00:16:29,480
Or there's ways that aren't--

349
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,010
you're not told but there are
ways to just go around all of

350
00:16:33,010 --> 00:16:35,370
it and just get out without
killing anyone.

351
00:16:35,370 --> 00:16:40,000
AUDIENCE: They stole
that from--

352
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,566
in Baldur's Gate 2 there's
a similar thing.

353
00:16:42,566 --> 00:16:43,816
AUDIENCE: I was actually going
to talk [INTERPOSING VOICES]

354
00:17:02,475 --> 00:17:04,810
AUDIENCE: So the first
thing I would mention

355
00:17:04,810 --> 00:17:06,680
is a Emerald Items.

356
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,075
GUEST SPEAKER: Just one thing.

357
00:17:08,075 --> 00:17:11,720
AUDIENCE: God of War,
[UNINTELLIGIBLE], how so many

358
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,780
times you'll be fighting
monsters and all of a sudden a

359
00:17:13,780 --> 00:17:17,310
bunch of civilians come by and
you just let them go, but

360
00:17:17,310 --> 00:17:18,060
there's no fun there.

361
00:17:18,060 --> 00:17:20,545
If you kill them you get life
and experience so it's--

362
00:17:20,545 --> 00:17:21,220
AUDIENCE: [INTERPOSING VOICES]

363
00:17:21,220 --> 00:17:22,566
reward you for killing them?

364
00:17:22,566 --> 00:17:23,438
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

365
00:17:23,438 --> 00:17:24,700
AUDIENCE: Oh that's bizarre.

366
00:17:24,700 --> 00:17:27,366
AUDIENCE: You get
your life back.

367
00:17:27,366 --> 00:17:29,060
AUDIENCE: Maybe some
[INTERPOSING VOICES] do that

368
00:17:29,060 --> 00:17:29,840
in the story.

369
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,770
AUDIENCE: Huh?

370
00:17:31,770 --> 00:17:34,415
AUDIENCE: You're Kratos.

371
00:17:34,415 --> 00:17:35,947
AUDIENCE: Oh, you are
the God of War.

372
00:17:35,947 --> 00:17:38,080
AUDIENCE: Well, you become the
God of-- well, pretty much you

373
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,310
just go around killing,
hacking and slashing

374
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:42,282
everything up.

375
00:17:42,282 --> 00:17:44,040
AUDIENCE: OK.

376
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,410
So these are just civilians
who are doing nothing.

377
00:17:47,410 --> 00:17:48,300
AUDIENCE: Yes, they're just
running away from everybody

378
00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:50,425
for their lives from scary
monsters, and then you come

379
00:17:50,425 --> 00:17:54,050
and just hack them
all into pieces.

380
00:17:54,050 --> 00:17:59,830
Also in the game, the second
one, in order to pass on you

381
00:17:59,830 --> 00:18:01,650
have to translate something.

382
00:18:01,650 --> 00:18:06,366
And to translate it you smash
your head into it and then

383
00:18:06,366 --> 00:18:08,630
they say you have to sacrifice
it in blood so you just smash

384
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:14,210
them into pieces until they
have the blood sacrifice.

385
00:18:14,210 --> 00:18:15,626
GUEST SPEAKER: It
feels so good.

386
00:18:15,626 --> 00:18:16,570
AUDIENCE: Do you have
to do that?

387
00:18:16,570 --> 00:18:17,356
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

388
00:18:17,356 --> 00:18:18,930
AUDIENCE: Oh, OK.

389
00:18:18,930 --> 00:18:22,430
AUDIENCE: In Indigo Prophecy you
switch between different

390
00:18:22,430 --> 00:18:23,160
sets of characters.

391
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,530
And one of them is a guy who
commited a murder, and then

392
00:18:25,530 --> 00:18:28,700
you switch to the cops who
are trying to catch him.

393
00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:32,070
In one of the earlier scenes you
play as a cop you bring in

394
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:35,160
a witness and you're trying to
make up the artist rendering

395
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,100
of what the murderer
looks like.

396
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:40,660
And so you can choose whether
or not to make a faithful

397
00:18:40,660 --> 00:18:44,060
rendering and bring the cops
closer to catching him or to

398
00:18:44,060 --> 00:18:47,800
make one that looks nothing like
him so you can evade them

399
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,874
when you play as
the other guy.

400
00:18:50,874 --> 00:18:52,840
GUEST SPEAKER: Interesting.

401
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:57,382
If you make it not look
like you as killer--

402
00:18:57,382 --> 00:19:00,498
AUDIENCE: Then there are other
clues he has to find in order

403
00:19:00,498 --> 00:19:02,570
to finally track him down.

404
00:19:02,570 --> 00:19:03,770
GUEST SPEAKER: Can you--

405
00:19:03,770 --> 00:19:05,970
AUDIENCE: How do you
win this game?

406
00:19:05,970 --> 00:19:08,242
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

407
00:19:08,242 --> 00:19:09,610
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]
events.

408
00:19:09,610 --> 00:19:11,142
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

409
00:19:11,142 --> 00:19:13,422
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

410
00:19:13,422 --> 00:19:15,440
GUEST SPEAKER: I mean is the
goal to catch the killer, or

411
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,230
for the killer to get
away, or you just--

412
00:19:17,230 --> 00:19:19,933
AUDIENCE: It's actually an
adventure game so the goal is

413
00:19:19,933 --> 00:19:20,580
to maintain the story.

414
00:19:20,580 --> 00:19:21,830
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]

415
00:19:24,738 --> 00:19:26,714
GUEST SPEAKER: OK.

416
00:19:26,714 --> 00:19:29,615
Philip.

417
00:19:29,615 --> 00:19:33,203
AUDIENCE: In a LARP that I
played a long time ago I was

418
00:19:33,203 --> 00:19:36,500
allowed to draw one item from
a location every hour.

419
00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:40,280
The game ran from noon to
midnight on three different

420
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,470
days but I couldn't play
before 2:00 PM.

421
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:44,676
So I come in at 2:00 PM.

422
00:19:44,676 --> 00:19:48,556
How many items was I allowed to
draw when I came into the

423
00:19:48,556 --> 00:19:50,630
game given that I already missed
two hours of the game?

424
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:55,190
And if the answer is, well, I
can make that up, then what

425
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:57,422
happens if I miss an hour
half way through the--

426
00:19:57,422 --> 00:20:01,330
and if I forget.

427
00:20:01,330 --> 00:20:03,820
No one's looking into the box.

428
00:20:03,820 --> 00:20:04,950
GUEST SPEAKER: What
did you do?

429
00:20:04,950 --> 00:20:05,923
AUDIENCE: What did I do?

430
00:20:05,923 --> 00:20:06,650
GUEST SPEAKER: Yes.

431
00:20:06,650 --> 00:20:07,376
AUDIENCE: What did I do?

432
00:20:07,376 --> 00:20:10,285
I think I drew more than one
item at the beginning of the

433
00:20:10,285 --> 00:20:14,100
game and I made sure
I never forgot.

434
00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:15,435
So, honor system.

435
00:20:15,435 --> 00:20:17,856
A lot of LARPs are based
on the honor system.

436
00:20:23,832 --> 00:20:27,990
AUDIENCE: So in Final Fantasy
VII, like a lot of Japanese

437
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:30,060
RPGs, you get used to the idea
of walking into people's

438
00:20:30,060 --> 00:20:33,750
houses and just digging in the
items you find, except in FF

439
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:35,620
VII they actually mix it
up a couple of times.

440
00:20:35,620 --> 00:20:37,440
There are a couple of instances
where you go in

441
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,570
there and do that and maybe it's
fairly insignificant, you

442
00:20:39,570 --> 00:20:42,800
could buy it easily with a
couple pieces of gold or gil

443
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:43,915
or whatever it is.

444
00:20:43,915 --> 00:20:45,940
And then the person walks out of
their kitchen or something,

445
00:20:45,940 --> 00:20:47,630
and it's, did you just
take my item?

446
00:20:47,630 --> 00:20:50,070
And you have the option
saying yes or no.

447
00:20:50,070 --> 00:20:53,070
And if you say no then you get
to keep it but if you say yes

448
00:20:53,070 --> 00:20:54,150
they're, what the hell?

449
00:20:54,150 --> 00:20:57,482
Give it back.

450
00:20:57,482 --> 00:21:00,891
I thought it was interesting.

451
00:21:00,891 --> 00:21:02,717
AUDIENCE: I have something
that hasn't really been

452
00:21:02,717 --> 00:21:05,790
touched on.

453
00:21:05,790 --> 00:21:09,721
When you're running a very large
scale Guild in an MMO

454
00:21:09,721 --> 00:21:12,777
you reach a point where you need
to distribute from these

455
00:21:12,777 --> 00:21:20,320
high end The community optimal
thing to do is for the people

456
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,565
who are in charge of the Guild
to allocate who gets what so

457
00:21:23,565 --> 00:21:26,305
that you can, for instance, kick
out the characters that's

458
00:21:26,305 --> 00:21:27,910
most important for the Guild
to have for the [? game ?]

459
00:21:27,910 --> 00:21:29,760
to progress.

460
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,040
But for the most part, actual
members of the Guild don't

461
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,380
really like that because you
would like to receive some

462
00:21:36,380 --> 00:21:39,235
kind of reward for having put
in time to the Guild.

463
00:21:39,235 --> 00:21:42,445
And going a long time without
ever having gotten anything is

464
00:21:42,445 --> 00:21:46,130
really frustrating, so people
come up with these intricate

465
00:21:46,130 --> 00:21:52,920
systems for DKP for distributing
your resources,

466
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,564
essentially, to try to balance
the interests of the

467
00:21:56,564 --> 00:21:58,387
individual and the interest
of the community.

468
00:21:58,387 --> 00:22:02,110
GUEST SPEAKER: How many of you
are unsure what DKP is?

469
00:22:02,110 --> 00:22:04,576
Dragon Kill Points.

470
00:22:04,576 --> 00:22:08,110
There are these sometimes
elaborate schemes for if you

471
00:22:08,110 --> 00:22:13,190
participate in these raids,
you get so many points.

472
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:18,050
And the idea is the Guild claims
everything that drops

473
00:22:18,050 --> 00:22:18,980
physically.

474
00:22:18,980 --> 00:22:22,555
And you build up points, and at
some point you have enough

475
00:22:22,555 --> 00:22:25,020
to buy a certain item.

476
00:22:25,020 --> 00:22:27,440
So let's say you're on a raid
and you just got something

477
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:28,860
really cool last time.

478
00:22:28,860 --> 00:22:31,130
If something drops this time
that you could really use,

479
00:22:31,130 --> 00:22:33,580
even though you're there you
don't necessarily get it

480
00:22:33,580 --> 00:22:36,920
because you just spent
all your DKP.

481
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,670
And there's lots of Guild drama
over how these DKPs--

482
00:22:40,670 --> 00:22:42,926
AUDIENCE: Primary source
of Guild drama.

483
00:22:42,926 --> 00:22:44,335
AUDIENCE: Have you
been playing?

484
00:22:44,335 --> 00:22:45,185
GUEST SPEAKER: Hm?

485
00:22:45,185 --> 00:22:48,240
AUDIENCE: Dan, have you
been playing this?

486
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,026
AUDIENCE: You end up by
raids and then you

487
00:22:50,026 --> 00:22:51,840
catch them before breakfast.

488
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,616
GUEST SPEAKER: And there
are black out dates.

489
00:22:54,616 --> 00:22:56,380
AUDIENCE: Running one of these
things is actually

490
00:22:56,380 --> 00:23:00,120
surprisingly complicated and
hard, particularly--

491
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:03,880
so my little experience,
I ran a Guild which

492
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,100
incorporated this.

493
00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:08,710
One problem that happens is if
you have fixed prices for

494
00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:13,370
things then you get DKP
inflation as prices change.

495
00:23:13,370 --> 00:23:15,990
And what happens is-- and it's
incredibly complicated-- to

496
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:17,640
where, now, you have to reprice
everything constantly.

497
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,180
So instead we went for an
auction-based system where

498
00:23:20,180 --> 00:23:22,840
people bid on things.

499
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,470
And then prices correct
themselves.

500
00:23:25,470 --> 00:23:29,360
However, people can collude in
auctions, which then causes a

501
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:31,775
resentment in people who aren't
in on the collusion,

502
00:23:31,775 --> 00:23:34,970
and the whole thing is
just a nightmare.

503
00:23:34,970 --> 00:23:36,890
And now I don't run a Guild
anymore and I'm really happy.

504
00:23:41,183 --> 00:23:44,610
AUDIENCE: In games like Pokemon
or Animal Crossing you

505
00:23:44,610 --> 00:23:47,180
can decide whether or not
to change the time on

506
00:23:47,180 --> 00:23:50,070
your DNS or game cube.

507
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:52,270
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] score
came out I was like

508
00:23:52,270 --> 00:23:54,509
10 I had a bed time.

509
00:23:54,509 --> 00:23:57,407
I didn't have a lot of time
to catch up on Pokemon.

510
00:23:57,407 --> 00:24:01,760
AUDIENCE: You can do that too
and manipulate the RNG and get

511
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,400
the stats you want.

512
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:04,760
Perfect for
[INTERPOSING VOICES].

513
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,144
AUDIENCE: There's also-- besides
whenever you do the

514
00:24:08,144 --> 00:24:13,520
random number generator hacks
in games in order to get a

515
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,160
certain drop that's normally 1%
but you can increase it to

516
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,340
up to almost 100--

517
00:24:20,340 --> 00:24:24,910
but what I was going to say was
that in Fallout 3 you can

518
00:24:24,910 --> 00:24:26,750
pickpocket people.

519
00:24:26,750 --> 00:24:29,242
And something you do when you
pickpocket people, as long as

520
00:24:29,242 --> 00:24:32,840
you don't get caught, you can
take a grenade from your

521
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,270
inventory and place it in their
pocket, and all of a

522
00:24:35,270 --> 00:24:37,870
sudden they're, oh my god,
there's a grenade, run away.

523
00:24:37,870 --> 00:24:39,360
And it will blow up inside
their pocket

524
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:40,722
and they will explode.

525
00:24:40,722 --> 00:24:41,720
AUDIENCE: What game?

526
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,160
AUDIENCE: Fallout 3.

527
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,130
And the funny thing is that
that's actually an achievement

528
00:24:47,130 --> 00:24:50,088
to blow someone up.

529
00:24:50,088 --> 00:24:51,980
GUEST SPEAKER: Do
you get, other

530
00:24:51,980 --> 00:24:53,750
than the joy and giggles--

531
00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:57,260
AUDIENCE: Well besides from
the joy and giggles,

532
00:24:57,260 --> 00:24:59,430
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

533
00:24:59,430 --> 00:25:02,280
you can pick their pockets,
whatever they have in their

534
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:03,110
pocket you can get.

535
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:04,870
AUDIENCE: That is still left.

536
00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:07,521
AUDIENCE: Well you take
it out as you're

537
00:25:07,521 --> 00:25:08,977
putting the grenade in.

538
00:25:08,977 --> 00:25:11,033
AUDIENCE: You wouldn't want
their [UNINTELLIGIBLE] to be

539
00:25:11,033 --> 00:25:11,719
damaged by the grenade.

540
00:25:11,719 --> 00:25:13,830
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

541
00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:14,937
AUDIENCE: Yeah, you're
just putting them

542
00:25:14,937 --> 00:25:16,260
in at the same time.

543
00:25:16,260 --> 00:25:18,125
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

544
00:25:18,125 --> 00:25:20,422
AUDIENCE: And it can
be a little tricky.

545
00:25:20,422 --> 00:25:21,672
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

546
00:25:25,878 --> 00:25:26,870
GUEST SPEAKER: OK.

547
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:28,840
Anybody have any representative
examples we

548
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,286
haven't touched on?

549
00:25:30,286 --> 00:25:33,258
AUDIENCE: I used to play a lot
of [UNINTELLIGIBLE] online and

550
00:25:33,258 --> 00:25:34,624
they had a bunch of really
sophisticated rules that

551
00:25:34,624 --> 00:25:37,040
applied in certain situations.

552
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,280
So there were a lot of times
in the game where you just

553
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,172
flat out lie to people and have
them go into situations

554
00:25:43,172 --> 00:25:45,000
that were unsafe for them.

555
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,950
For example, if people were in
your house-- in an urban

556
00:25:47,950 --> 00:25:49,750
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] game if people
are inside your house

557
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:53,390
they are automatically flagged
as attackable by you because

558
00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:56,155
they're in your house and you
might not have let them in.

559
00:25:56,155 --> 00:25:57,990
And they can run outside their
house and they'll be

560
00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:58,730
unattackable by you.

561
00:25:58,730 --> 00:26:01,930
But you can also put a trash
barrel in front of your door,

562
00:26:01,930 --> 00:26:04,480
which only you can destroy and
nobody else can destroy, and

563
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:05,910
they can't run through that.

564
00:26:05,910 --> 00:26:08,570
So you would invite them in
to trade them something or

565
00:26:08,570 --> 00:26:09,395
enjoying your meal.

566
00:26:09,395 --> 00:26:11,830
And they're in your house, then
you put a trash barrel

567
00:26:11,830 --> 00:26:16,000
there so they can never leave
and just kill them.

568
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:16,740
GUEST SPEAKER: Or just leave
them there, right?

569
00:26:16,740 --> 00:26:17,710
AUDIENCE: Or just leave them.

570
00:26:17,710 --> 00:26:19,640
There are tons and
tons of rules.

571
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,490
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

572
00:26:21,490 --> 00:26:23,645
It's really bad, It's
really bad.

573
00:26:23,645 --> 00:26:27,889
I was part of the Guild that
did this to me and then I

574
00:26:27,889 --> 00:26:28,887
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]

575
00:26:28,887 --> 00:26:30,883
I was like, that
is pretty sick.

576
00:26:30,883 --> 00:26:33,378
There are a bunch of way to
steal tons and tons of money

577
00:26:33,378 --> 00:26:35,873
from people and they didn't
realize that you did.

578
00:26:35,873 --> 00:26:37,370
GUEST SPEAKER: Did you get
that [UNINTELLIGIBLE]?

579
00:26:37,370 --> 00:26:38,368
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

580
00:26:38,368 --> 00:26:38,867
Yes.

581
00:26:38,867 --> 00:26:43,460
But I feel like just blatantly
lying to people as a tactic

582
00:26:43,460 --> 00:26:45,310
instead of just being
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

583
00:26:48,150 --> 00:26:51,713
AUDIENCE: The question about
real world money for in game

584
00:26:51,713 --> 00:26:56,555
items especially for competitive
games whether or

585
00:26:56,555 --> 00:26:58,501
not it's allowed by the GMs.

586
00:27:02,140 --> 00:27:03,556
Those are two different
questions.

587
00:27:03,556 --> 00:27:05,640
One is the ethical question from
the player's standpoint.

588
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,119
And the other is what does it
mean in terms of the player

589
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,430
character relation
in the game.

590
00:27:12,430 --> 00:27:16,230
AUDIENCE: I was going to say
one thing that comes up

591
00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:19,900
especially in board games that
have a lot of positive

592
00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:23,030
feedback, it's called
king making.

593
00:27:23,030 --> 00:27:24,315
Good examples are like
in Monopoly,

594
00:27:24,315 --> 00:27:25,530
or Settlers or Munchkin.

595
00:27:25,530 --> 00:27:29,375
And how it works, let's say you
and Owen and I are playing

596
00:27:29,375 --> 00:27:33,000
Settlers and typically what
will happen is say Owen is

597
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,750
winning but I'm typically really
far behind, or someone

598
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:38,250
is going to be in a position
where they have

599
00:27:38,250 --> 00:27:39,540
no chance of winning.

600
00:27:39,540 --> 00:27:42,123
So if I decide he's winning and
you're close second and

601
00:27:42,123 --> 00:27:45,271
I'm distant third, what people
do is say, hey Mia, I will

602
00:27:45,271 --> 00:27:47,640
give you everything for your one
little card and then you

603
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,390
can win because I'm
mad at Owen.

604
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:52,844
And then it comes up, like you
said, in Monopoly there's this

605
00:27:52,844 --> 00:27:55,356
question of is that a really
jerky thing to do?

606
00:27:55,356 --> 00:27:56,832
The rules don't disallow it.

607
00:27:56,832 --> 00:27:59,292
It's an ongoing debate.

608
00:27:59,292 --> 00:28:01,752
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]

609
00:28:01,752 --> 00:28:03,720
GUEST SPEAKER: Don't do that.

610
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,672
AUDIENCE: Similarly in Monopoly,
the rules don't

611
00:28:06,672 --> 00:28:08,640
specifically allow If I have
two [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

612
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,820
we'll exchange that and promise
each other immunity on

613
00:28:12,820 --> 00:28:14,940
our properties or something
that you're not allowed to

614
00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:15,730
actually promise each other.

615
00:28:15,730 --> 00:28:17,760
Or if [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

616
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,632
will always do it to you and
will promise me half the

617
00:28:20,632 --> 00:28:23,246
profits or something like that
where clearly the third person

618
00:28:23,246 --> 00:28:26,418
is now shut out of the game
and can't win because

619
00:28:26,418 --> 00:28:27,412
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]

620
00:28:27,412 --> 00:28:31,388
advantage even though we're
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] with things

621
00:28:31,388 --> 00:28:33,376
that aren't explicitly
allowed in the rules.

622
00:28:33,376 --> 00:28:37,120
GUEST SPEAKER: How many of you
have played Dragon Age?

623
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:39,595
AUDIENCE: I've seen it played.

624
00:28:39,595 --> 00:28:40,585
GUEST SPEAKER: OK.

625
00:28:40,585 --> 00:28:43,555
I've just, I'm playing
through it right now.

626
00:28:43,555 --> 00:28:44,720
I've been thinking about
these issues a lot.

627
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,069
Actually on my first play
through there's a scene where

628
00:28:47,069 --> 00:28:49,021
there's a kid possessed
by a demon.

629
00:28:49,021 --> 00:28:50,100
You have the choice whether
you kill him or not.

630
00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:53,734
The first time I killed
him and--

631
00:28:53,734 --> 00:28:56,560
I thought everybody did.

632
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,270
I had no compunction about it.

633
00:28:58,270 --> 00:29:00,965
It was like die demon,
demon die.

634
00:29:00,965 --> 00:29:04,320
It turns out everybody really
hated that, all the other

635
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,650
characters, my companions.

636
00:29:06,650 --> 00:29:10,080
And this play time through
I was I'll try it.

637
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,140
And it was all this extra
work involved.

638
00:29:14,140 --> 00:29:19,960
But it seems like in the game
whether you want to do the

639
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,770
good thing or not it generally
works to your advantage to do

640
00:29:23,770 --> 00:29:26,520
the good thing because you get
more stuff, either better

641
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,020
approval ratings from your
companions who then unlock

642
00:29:29,020 --> 00:29:31,360
bonuses or you get stuff.

643
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,910
Whereas, being the jerk--

644
00:29:32,910 --> 00:29:35,976
AUDIENCE: It kind of depends
on who your companions are.

645
00:29:35,976 --> 00:29:37,344
GUEST SPEAKER: Does it?

646
00:29:37,344 --> 00:29:38,535
Who approves?

647
00:29:38,535 --> 00:29:40,724
AUDIENCE: People like the--

648
00:29:40,724 --> 00:29:42,849
AUDIENCE: Like Elven assassin,
I can't remember

649
00:29:42,849 --> 00:29:43,488
what his name is.

650
00:29:43,488 --> 00:29:44,802
GUEST SPEAKER: Oh, Zevran.

651
00:29:44,802 --> 00:29:46,330
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

652
00:29:46,330 --> 00:29:49,088
but she likes all the
jerky things.

653
00:29:49,088 --> 00:29:49,996
GUEST SPEAKER: OK.

654
00:29:49,996 --> 00:29:51,358
I didn't have Zevran the
first time through.

655
00:29:51,358 --> 00:29:52,490
That's why [UNINTELLIGIBLE].

656
00:29:52,490 --> 00:29:55,030
AUDIENCE: Also that one
guy, [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

657
00:29:57,620 --> 00:29:58,800
that can spot
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

658
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,686
No, no, another guy.

659
00:30:00,686 --> 00:30:03,000
I think you can get him
on your team at least.

660
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,950
He's in the temple where there's
that big dragon and

661
00:30:05,950 --> 00:30:10,980
where you're doing some ash
quest or something.

662
00:30:10,980 --> 00:30:13,080
And he wants you to pour
dragon blood on

663
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:14,000
the ashes or something.

664
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,933
I'm pretty sure you can
get him on your team.

665
00:30:15,933 --> 00:30:18,250
Am I right or am I wrong?

666
00:30:18,250 --> 00:30:20,920
But I think you can get them
as part of your final army.

667
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,810
And they're pretty good,
and they're bad.

668
00:30:24,810 --> 00:30:27,025
GUEST SPEAKER: I just chose
poorly, apparently, my

669
00:30:27,025 --> 00:30:28,100
companions [INAUDIBLE]

670
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:32,040
moralistic ones like
kill a kid.

671
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,780
OK.

672
00:30:33,780 --> 00:30:35,350
In the reading you did
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]

673
00:30:35,350 --> 00:30:39,600
talks about different choices
and the way that game

674
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,550
designers are putting
games together.

675
00:30:41,550 --> 00:30:44,320
And he talks about two different
categories, the open

676
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,035
and the closed ethical
systems.

677
00:30:48,780 --> 00:30:53,100
The open was more letting
players determine for

678
00:30:53,100 --> 00:30:55,710
themselves [UNINTELLIGIBLE] they
want to take and kind of

679
00:30:55,710 --> 00:30:58,730
seeing how that goes through,
whereas the closed is the

680
00:30:58,730 --> 00:31:03,100
system that forces a
particular way of

681
00:31:03,100 --> 00:31:05,080
playing upon you.

682
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,440
And so, just kind of going
through these here, where do

683
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,570
you see them falling in terms
of closed and open?

684
00:31:12,570 --> 00:31:14,800
AUDIENCE: Wait.

685
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,134
You confused me with those
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

686
00:31:17,134 --> 00:31:19,614
You said open means that you
have the decision on how to

687
00:31:19,614 --> 00:31:23,270
value actions or
on what to do?

688
00:31:23,270 --> 00:31:25,850
GUEST SPEAKER: Well he says, for
example, in The Sims with

689
00:31:25,850 --> 00:31:29,840
drowning, he mentions The Sims
is an open game where you can

690
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:36,990
do what you want and think
about what happens.

691
00:31:36,990 --> 00:31:39,200
AUDIENCE: A definitely closed
example, it's not up there,

692
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,180
but I'll give you a closed
example up there

693
00:31:40,180 --> 00:31:42,050
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

694
00:31:42,050 --> 00:31:46,220
In the first Modern Warfare
game they have a flashback

695
00:31:46,220 --> 00:31:50,230
sequence where you have to snipe
the featured bad guy,

696
00:31:50,230 --> 00:31:51,640
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

697
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:57,110
And even though in the game
story he survives your attempt

698
00:31:57,110 --> 00:32:00,780
to kill him, if you don't
actually hit him with the

699
00:32:00,780 --> 00:32:04,390
bullet the game won't
let you progress.

700
00:32:04,390 --> 00:32:08,240
So you have to go and basically
snipe this dude no

701
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,080
matter what, the game
won't let you do it.

702
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:10,530
And that's just part
of the story,

703
00:32:10,530 --> 00:32:11,870
that's just how it works.

704
00:32:11,870 --> 00:32:15,530
And it's dubiously moral that
you should be meddling with

705
00:32:15,530 --> 00:32:16,980
such affairs but you know.

706
00:32:16,980 --> 00:32:19,590
And it actually comes back to
bite you later in the game

707
00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:23,250
because you're at the place
where it's causing problems

708
00:32:23,250 --> 00:32:25,134
for you the fact that you
tried snipe this guy.

709
00:32:25,134 --> 00:32:26,660
And they had you play
the flashback but

710
00:32:26,660 --> 00:32:28,820
you have to do it.

711
00:32:28,820 --> 00:32:32,256
And it's all directed
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

712
00:32:32,256 --> 00:32:34,720
AUDIENCE: Isn't like the Cube
murder closed as well because

713
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,860
you don't have a choice.

714
00:32:36,860 --> 00:32:38,730
You have to kill
him to move on.

715
00:32:38,730 --> 00:32:39,145
GUEST SPEAKER: The what?

716
00:32:39,145 --> 00:32:40,910
AUDIENCE: The Cube murder
in [INTERPOSING VOICES]

717
00:32:40,910 --> 00:32:42,910
GUEST SPEAKER: Oh, the Cube.

718
00:32:42,910 --> 00:32:47,926
I'm thinking Q. Yeah, that would
be closed because you

719
00:32:47,926 --> 00:32:50,704
simply can't move on, and you
just have to deal with your--

720
00:32:50,704 --> 00:32:52,100
AUDIENCE: But that's the joke.

721
00:32:52,100 --> 00:32:53,454
AUDIENCE: Yeah, yeah.

722
00:32:53,454 --> 00:32:54,704
Exactly.

723
00:32:56,650 --> 00:32:58,794
AUDIENCE: Starification
is fairly closed.

724
00:32:58,794 --> 00:33:01,566
GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah.

725
00:33:01,566 --> 00:33:04,196
You can bad mouth those people
you just can't play

726
00:33:04,196 --> 00:33:06,148
Katamari I'm sorry.

727
00:33:09,076 --> 00:33:13,370
AUDIENCE: I have a question
actually about when we passed

728
00:33:13,370 --> 00:33:15,181
Sleep Is Death griefing.

729
00:33:15,181 --> 00:33:18,163
It seems to me that was
intended by design.

730
00:33:18,163 --> 00:33:19,654
GUEST SPEAKER: Which one?

731
00:33:19,654 --> 00:33:22,150
AUDIENCE: The Sleep Is Death
griefing directly under

732
00:33:22,150 --> 00:33:22,420
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

733
00:33:22,420 --> 00:33:27,201
Like the idea that I am a GM,
you're a player, and part of

734
00:33:27,201 --> 00:33:30,995
the challenge is not knowing
whether your player is going

735
00:33:30,995 --> 00:33:32,310
to play along with you.

736
00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:33,920
But that's part of the game.

737
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,968
So I don't know that
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]

738
00:33:35,968 --> 00:33:38,413
closed or open.

739
00:33:38,413 --> 00:33:42,325
That tension's intended.

740
00:33:42,325 --> 00:33:45,259
GUEST SPEAKER: I don't know.

741
00:33:45,259 --> 00:33:47,690
AUDIENCE: It's still
open, right?

742
00:33:47,690 --> 00:33:50,910
GUEST SPEAKER: I would say this
one is open, I guess,

743
00:33:50,910 --> 00:33:53,960
because you are allowed
to do what you want.

744
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,350
The example he gives for closed
ended is-- one of

745
00:33:56,350 --> 00:34:02,105
them-- is Manhunt where you have
to kill the bull and the

746
00:34:02,105 --> 00:34:04,940
more grisly you kill them
the better in some ways

747
00:34:04,940 --> 00:34:06,540
you don't like it.

748
00:34:06,540 --> 00:34:07,500
There's just no way to
get through the game.

749
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:08,850
The other example
he also gives is

750
00:34:08,850 --> 00:34:10,870
Shadow of the Colossus.

751
00:34:10,870 --> 00:34:16,305
And that one, especially, it's
ambiguous in terms of, OK, I

752
00:34:16,305 --> 00:34:19,219
have to kill these things, and
if you play through you

753
00:34:19,219 --> 00:34:21,580
realize well, wait a minute,
they're just hanging out

754
00:34:21,580 --> 00:34:24,947
they're not really doing
anything necessarily bad but I

755
00:34:24,947 --> 00:34:26,270
have to keep killing
them anyhow.

756
00:34:26,270 --> 00:34:30,690
And you can start to feel guilty
but it's what you have

757
00:34:30,690 --> 00:34:31,719
to do to play the game.

758
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,530
So you would say that's
a closed system.

759
00:34:39,185 --> 00:34:42,050
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] and
Indigo Prophecy might be

760
00:34:42,050 --> 00:34:46,730
closed because you have to go on
with the story, you have to

761
00:34:46,730 --> 00:34:50,435
make decisions such in
order to progress on.

762
00:34:50,435 --> 00:34:53,749
AUDIENCE: I feel like it
isn't-- is that right?

763
00:34:53,749 --> 00:34:56,920
AUDIENCE: I think the idea is
that closed would be you don't

764
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,200
get to make decisions.

765
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,330
Closed is like if you want to
play the game you have to make

766
00:35:01,330 --> 00:35:04,030
this moral decision-- you don't
have a choice in the

767
00:35:04,030 --> 00:35:07,090
moral decision, you
have to be evil.

768
00:35:07,090 --> 00:35:08,520
And that's one thing.

769
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,150
And another game could be you
have to be good but if you

770
00:35:11,150 --> 00:35:13,620
have the decision between both
paths then that's open, I

771
00:35:13,620 --> 00:35:14,020
believe, right?

772
00:35:14,020 --> 00:35:14,710
GUEST SPEAKER: Yes.

773
00:35:14,710 --> 00:35:18,010
AUDIENCE: The premise behind
Inidgo Prophecy was that you

774
00:35:18,010 --> 00:35:20,240
can choose to do any action in
the game it would just have a

775
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:21,770
different ending as a result.

776
00:35:21,770 --> 00:35:25,200
But in practice it only had a
few endings but the premise

777
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,148
was that it would have countless
endings depending on

778
00:35:28,148 --> 00:35:31,010
your actions.

779
00:35:31,010 --> 00:35:34,244
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] and
Age of Empires III is going to

780
00:35:34,244 --> 00:35:36,650
have some closed--

781
00:35:36,650 --> 00:35:40,300
Maid exploitation because for
the campaigns at least

782
00:35:40,300 --> 00:35:40,980
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]

783
00:35:40,980 --> 00:35:44,740
there are conditions for
completing a scenario

784
00:35:44,740 --> 00:35:45,010
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

785
00:35:45,010 --> 00:35:50,092
GUEST SPEAKER: Oh, so you have
to do [UNINTELLIGIBLE]?

786
00:35:50,092 --> 00:35:52,826
AUDIENCE: The [UNINTELLIGIBLE]
is open.

787
00:35:52,826 --> 00:35:54,284
[? QTA ?] is open.

788
00:35:54,284 --> 00:35:55,040
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

789
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,050
AUDIENCE: Most of the
rest are open.

790
00:35:57,050 --> 00:35:57,860
GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah.

791
00:35:57,860 --> 00:35:59,748
Fallout 3 is definitely open.

792
00:35:59,748 --> 00:36:02,464
AUDIENCE: The western
style one.

793
00:36:02,464 --> 00:36:05,510
AUDIENCE: The F.E.A.R nail
gun is actually--

794
00:36:05,510 --> 00:36:07,235
GUEST SPEAKER: The
nail gun is what?

795
00:36:07,235 --> 00:36:09,730
AUDIENCE: I don't know of anyone
who's gotten through

796
00:36:09,730 --> 00:36:11,610
F.E.A.R without killing someone
with a nail gun at

797
00:36:11,610 --> 00:36:12,091
some point.

798
00:36:12,091 --> 00:36:14,500
AUDIENCE: But is that
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

799
00:36:20,270 --> 00:36:22,475
AUDIENCE: Can you
punch things?

800
00:36:22,475 --> 00:36:24,050
AUDIENCE: Yeah you can.

801
00:36:24,050 --> 00:36:25,730
AUDIENCE: You can't
run at that level.

802
00:36:25,730 --> 00:36:27,773
AUDIENCE: You can actually kung
fu kick things, which is

803
00:36:27,773 --> 00:36:29,920
pretty cool, in slow mo.

804
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,530
AUDIENCE: In fact, I don't
say all the rest

805
00:36:32,530 --> 00:36:34,360
of them seem open.

806
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,350
GUEST SPEAKER: Pretty
open, yeah.

807
00:36:35,350 --> 00:36:36,835
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

808
00:36:36,835 --> 00:36:37,825
kicking people.

809
00:36:37,825 --> 00:36:39,409
GUEST SPEAKER: You don't
have to do this at

810
00:36:39,409 --> 00:36:39,805
any point, do you?

811
00:36:39,805 --> 00:36:41,290
AUDIENCE: No.

812
00:36:41,290 --> 00:36:44,260
[INAUDIBLE]

813
00:36:44,260 --> 00:36:45,260
GUEST SPEAKER: OK.

814
00:36:45,260 --> 00:36:48,010
So most of these-- what, do we
say about [UNINTELLIGIBLE]?

815
00:36:48,010 --> 00:36:48,916
AUDIENCE: Oh.

816
00:36:48,916 --> 00:36:50,166
AUDIENCE: Open.

817
00:36:52,656 --> 00:36:58,140
AUDIENCE: Regarding BioShock,
would that be open or closed?

818
00:36:58,140 --> 00:36:59,460
AUDIENCE: Well [UNINTELLIGIBLE]
open--

819
00:36:59,460 --> 00:37:01,260
AUDIENCE: You have a choice
but it's in your best

820
00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:04,300
interests to do one
or the other.

821
00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:06,292
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

822
00:37:06,292 --> 00:37:10,380
AUDIENCE: So if you have only
one thing you can do it's

823
00:37:10,380 --> 00:37:11,540
fairly closed.

824
00:37:11,540 --> 00:37:14,170
If you have only two things
you can do that are very

825
00:37:14,170 --> 00:37:17,078
clearly defined is it really an
open system or is it just a

826
00:37:17,078 --> 00:37:18,695
closed system with two paths.

827
00:37:18,695 --> 00:37:21,120
AUDIENCE: I was under
the impression that

828
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,070
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]

829
00:37:23,070 --> 00:37:25,534
because you weren't self-guiding
the system was

830
00:37:25,534 --> 00:37:28,992
determining whether what you
were doing was good or bad.

831
00:37:28,992 --> 00:37:30,968
AUDIENCE: I was thinking
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

832
00:37:30,968 --> 00:37:32,944
I thought inFAMOUS
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]

833
00:37:32,944 --> 00:37:35,414
would also be closed.

834
00:37:35,414 --> 00:37:36,664
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

835
00:37:38,822 --> 00:37:40,794
I didn't get the difference
between only having one option

836
00:37:40,794 --> 00:37:43,259
and the system telling
you which option

837
00:37:43,259 --> 00:37:47,696
is the right option.

838
00:37:47,696 --> 00:37:52,590
So in that case some of these
turn from open to close.

839
00:37:52,590 --> 00:37:54,880
AUDIENCE: Like this one.
{INTERPOSING VOICES]

840
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,220
AUDIENCE: BioShock would
then be closed.

841
00:37:57,220 --> 00:38:00,328
Fallout 3 The Dream Land,
would that be closed?

842
00:38:00,328 --> 00:38:03,056
AUDIENCE: It isn't telling
you which choice

843
00:38:03,056 --> 00:38:03,304
is the right option.

844
00:38:03,304 --> 00:38:07,870
You needn't be morally
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

845
00:38:07,870 --> 00:38:09,540
GUEST SPEAKER: What
do you think?

846
00:38:09,540 --> 00:38:11,830
Do you think he's saying--

847
00:38:11,830 --> 00:38:13,205
I know what you're saying
because he also mentioned Ice

848
00:38:13,205 --> 00:38:15,315
Field Republic as
a closed option.

849
00:38:18,330 --> 00:38:22,870
Is it that there are two
discrete, like good or evil,

850
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:26,700
like the Jedi or
the dark path?

851
00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:29,400
Is Fallout that concrete?

852
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,050
Fallout 3.

853
00:38:31,050 --> 00:38:34,950
I know inFAMOUS is.

854
00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:37,760
You're either going one
way or the other.

855
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,025
But I'm not as sure, and I'm
just asking people who've

856
00:38:40,025 --> 00:38:44,606
played it, is Fallout 3 that
particular in is it setting up

857
00:38:44,606 --> 00:38:45,928
a dichotomy of the good
character versus

858
00:38:45,928 --> 00:38:48,373
evil, or is it much--

859
00:38:48,373 --> 00:38:49,840
AUDIENCE: It's much more
of a gradient.

860
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,796
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

861
00:38:51,796 --> 00:38:53,752
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]

862
00:38:53,752 --> 00:38:56,020
AUDIENCE: In Baldur's Gate
there's two things.

863
00:38:56,020 --> 00:38:57,310
There's your alignment,
which you pick at the

864
00:38:57,310 --> 00:38:58,998
beginning of the game.

865
00:38:58,998 --> 00:39:02,832
It's more like D&D style
but it's fixed.

866
00:39:02,832 --> 00:39:07,970
But then there's this thing
that's your reputation, which

867
00:39:07,970 --> 00:39:11,400
can be decreased if you do
certain things, from the game

868
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,545
point of view, in view others.

869
00:39:13,545 --> 00:39:16,530
So you can get into doing bad
stuff sometimes without

870
00:39:16,530 --> 00:39:18,170
actually decreasing
your reputation.

871
00:39:18,170 --> 00:39:22,802
You can also just pick a evil
alignment and then do only

872
00:39:22,802 --> 00:39:25,142
good things, and that's
just very weird.

873
00:39:25,142 --> 00:39:27,860
So I don't exactly remember
how the alignment really

874
00:39:27,860 --> 00:39:29,020
factors into game play.

875
00:39:29,020 --> 00:39:30,370
But there's a moment, for
example, in the game, there's

876
00:39:30,370 --> 00:39:31,970
a big story for--

877
00:39:31,970 --> 00:39:35,460
it rejoins it afterwards-- but
you you have to ally yourself

878
00:39:35,460 --> 00:39:39,960
with either the Thieves Guild
or the vampires in town who

879
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,420
are competing affections.

880
00:39:42,420 --> 00:39:44,700
So you have the thieves
against the vampires.

881
00:39:44,700 --> 00:39:46,726
If it's the thieves against the
vampires you got to pick

882
00:39:46,726 --> 00:39:52,790
one to help you raid a certain
area, and you don't really

883
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:54,160
have other choices.

884
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,020
And one doesn't make you
gooder or eviler.

885
00:39:58,020 --> 00:39:59,070
They're both kind of bad.

886
00:39:59,070 --> 00:40:01,800
But you have to do it to
find the person that

887
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,740
you're trying to get.

888
00:40:03,740 --> 00:40:06,650
That's kind of closed.

889
00:40:06,650 --> 00:40:10,200
AUDIENCE: So in terms of
Baldur's Gate II, I would say,

890
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,790
one, there's the reputation
stats, which I've found never

891
00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:14,310
really into the
[UNINTELLIGIBLE], which is

892
00:40:14,310 --> 00:40:15,700
some type of metric for your--

893
00:40:15,700 --> 00:40:17,290
AUDIENCE: That's not true.

894
00:40:17,290 --> 00:40:19,696
AUDIENCE: You kill everyone
and you have to go

895
00:40:19,696 --> 00:40:21,690
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] to do that.

896
00:40:21,690 --> 00:40:24,300
People in your party can duel
you for your honor if they get

897
00:40:24,300 --> 00:40:25,280
upset at you.

898
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,260
Kaldor dueled me, left my
party, and then tried to

899
00:40:28,260 --> 00:40:30,710
attack me because
I was too evil.

900
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:31,690
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

901
00:40:31,690 --> 00:40:32,460
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

902
00:40:32,460 --> 00:40:32,990
I stood out.

903
00:40:32,990 --> 00:40:35,440
Like very, very specific actions
that will affect your

904
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,795
alignment, and there aren't
very many of those.

905
00:40:37,795 --> 00:40:41,310
In addition you have these cut
scene decisions, which are

906
00:40:41,310 --> 00:40:43,326
also very black or white,
good or evil.

907
00:40:43,326 --> 00:40:45,522
But I would say there's a lot of
decisions in the game that

908
00:40:45,522 --> 00:40:49,470
don't [UNINTELLIGIBLE], that
have both that ethical choice

909
00:40:49,470 --> 00:40:54,980
but not nearly as much of
a mechanical impact.

910
00:40:54,980 --> 00:40:57,010
GUEST SPEAKER: One of the things
he also mentions in

911
00:40:57,010 --> 00:41:00,508
relation to the open system,
going back to The Sims, is

912
00:41:00,508 --> 00:41:05,470
that you can do what you want
and the game doesn't

913
00:41:05,470 --> 00:41:08,040
necessarily punish you.

914
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,480
You can murder and you can drown
your Sims, and the rest

915
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,290
of the Sims in the house don't
move away in fear or

916
00:41:15,290 --> 00:41:18,010
disapprove of your action.

917
00:41:18,010 --> 00:41:20,270
It's just up to you whether
you want to feel

918
00:41:20,270 --> 00:41:21,840
bad about it or not.

919
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:27,990
Or the game has no larger
response other than let a Sim

920
00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:31,745
die once the site lit
a Sim on fire.

921
00:41:31,745 --> 00:41:36,200
And I wish they rolled for his
life and got a zombie back.

922
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,830
It turns out the only way
zombies happen in the game is

923
00:41:39,830 --> 00:41:40,655
if you make somebody
else unhappy.

924
00:41:40,655 --> 00:41:44,120
So then I had to
kill a zombie.

925
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,120
It was sad.

926
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,070
So that was another
element to it.

927
00:41:48,070 --> 00:41:49,900
One of the things that he talks
about in general in

928
00:41:49,900 --> 00:41:55,030
relation to all of this, and a
lot of these fit is ethics to

929
00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:57,570
your statistics.

930
00:41:57,570 --> 00:42:01,190
That somehow ethical systems are
on this point or sliding

931
00:42:01,190 --> 00:42:03,685
scale and that you're heading
towards good or you're heading

932
00:42:03,685 --> 00:42:04,560
towards evil.

933
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,880
We were even mentioning this
before class started that you

934
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,530
can blow up an entire town but
then if you give three beggars

935
00:42:11,530 --> 00:42:15,215
$0.50 cents each suddenly you're
back at neutral because

936
00:42:15,215 --> 00:42:18,804
of the way that these sliding
systems work in bizzarely

937
00:42:18,804 --> 00:42:20,090
mechanical ways.

938
00:42:20,090 --> 00:42:22,144
AUDIENCE: Yeah, you can
buy reputation back

939
00:42:22,144 --> 00:42:24,092
by stoning two temples.

940
00:42:24,092 --> 00:42:26,040
AUDIENCE: It's like
indulgences.

941
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,680
AUDIENCE: Yeah it is, exactly.

942
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,120
AUDIENCE: Indulgences
[INAUDIBLE].

943
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,360
AUDIENCE: I have to close this
now because I'm getting high

944
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:36,320
off of marker fumes.

945
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,064
I wanted to show you an example
of one that we haven't

946
00:42:40,064 --> 00:42:41,036
talked about yet.

947
00:42:41,036 --> 00:42:43,466
Somebody mentioned
Call of Duty.

948
00:42:43,466 --> 00:42:44,438
This one is actually
from last year.

949
00:42:44,438 --> 00:42:48,326
It's not Castro, which
is the new one, but--

950
00:42:48,326 --> 00:42:50,270
AUDIENCE: Is it the Russian
hostage thing?

951
00:42:50,270 --> 00:42:51,242
GUEST SPEAKER: Yes.

952
00:42:51,242 --> 00:42:53,672
It's the new Russian level--

953
00:42:53,672 --> 00:42:54,644
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

954
00:42:54,644 --> 00:42:55,894
AUDIENCE: From Modern
Warfare 2.

955
00:42:58,758 --> 00:43:02,880
AUDIENCE: It's like
a competition.

956
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,440
GUEST SPEAKER: So this was last
year's Call of Duty, and

957
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:07,990
this was the optional level.

958
00:43:07,990 --> 00:43:09,890
You did not have to play it.

959
00:43:09,890 --> 00:43:13,520
And of course it caused a big
storm when it was released.

960
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,973
I'm just going to play it and
then we can talk about it

961
00:43:15,973 --> 00:43:17,817
afterwards.

962
00:43:17,817 --> 00:43:19,360
Has anyone played this?

963
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,334
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

964
00:43:21,334 --> 00:43:25,318
GUEST SPEAKER: Want to provide
a little context or explain

965
00:43:25,318 --> 00:43:28,306
the a little bit more?

966
00:43:28,306 --> 00:43:32,690
AUDIENCE: So the convoluted plot
is that this is a false

967
00:43:32,690 --> 00:43:36,850
flag attack, which is staged by
a terrorist organization,

968
00:43:36,850 --> 00:43:40,590
which is meant to frame the
CIA to start a war between

969
00:43:40,590 --> 00:43:42,620
Russia and the US.

970
00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:46,200
And so the idea here is that
you are playing a character

971
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,740
who is undercover as part of
the CIA who is part of this

972
00:43:49,740 --> 00:43:51,710
terrorist organization.

973
00:43:51,710 --> 00:43:55,240
And then you end up being double
crossed because they,

974
00:43:55,240 --> 00:43:57,799
as it was just revealed at the
end, they knew you were a CIA

975
00:43:57,799 --> 00:44:00,620
agent and they're trying to
pin the attack on America.

976
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,250
So that's the--

977
00:44:04,250 --> 00:44:06,000
AUDIENCE: Do you have the option
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

978
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,370
of shooting Makarov
in the back or--

979
00:44:08,370 --> 00:44:09,430
AUDIENCE: No, I don't
believe so.

980
00:44:09,430 --> 00:44:12,690
AUDIENCE: If you tried and shoot
Makarov then the level

981
00:44:12,690 --> 00:44:15,870
ends with a fail, and you have
to arrest him again.

982
00:44:15,870 --> 00:44:18,730
If you try and get through the
level without shooting any

983
00:44:18,730 --> 00:44:20,610
civilians the level also ends.

984
00:44:20,610 --> 00:44:26,170
Makarov decides that you're a
traitor and shoots you before

985
00:44:26,170 --> 00:44:26,950
doing anything else--

986
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:28,330
AUDIENCE: Before he's supposed
to shoot you later.

987
00:44:28,330 --> 00:44:28,977
AUDIENCE: Before he's
supposed to shoot

988
00:44:28,977 --> 00:44:30,364
you, I seem to remember.

989
00:44:30,364 --> 00:44:34,260
AUDIENCE: I think you can get
through the mission by not

990
00:44:34,260 --> 00:44:37,495
shooting any civilians but you
can't get through without

991
00:44:37,495 --> 00:44:38,950
shooting any of the cops.

992
00:44:38,950 --> 00:44:39,875
AUDIENCE: Yeah, there's--

993
00:44:39,875 --> 00:44:41,855
AUDIENCE: If you don't shoot
the cops then you can't

994
00:44:41,855 --> 00:44:42,350
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

995
00:44:42,350 --> 00:44:44,330
GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah
that's true.

996
00:44:44,330 --> 00:44:45,580
[INAUDIBLE]

997
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,710
AUDIENCE: Although that guy was
incredibly diligent about

998
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:53,960
killing civilians.

999
00:44:56,540 --> 00:44:58,187
I did not play that
level that way.

1000
00:44:58,187 --> 00:44:59,181
AUDIENCE: Oh, god.

1001
00:44:59,181 --> 00:45:02,660
I did.

1002
00:45:02,660 --> 00:45:07,450
AUDIENCE: Yeah, that guy
took his work to heart.

1003
00:45:07,450 --> 00:45:10,940
I don't think that I would
have-- like Owen says--

1004
00:45:10,940 --> 00:45:13,944
I haven't played Modern Warfare
2 yet or Black Ops,

1005
00:45:13,944 --> 00:45:17,805
for that matter-- but I don't
feel like it would come to me

1006
00:45:17,805 --> 00:45:20,770
that it was really necessary to
just hunt down every last

1007
00:45:20,770 --> 00:45:21,263
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

1008
00:45:21,263 --> 00:45:22,742
GUEST SPEAKER: He's thorough.

1009
00:45:22,742 --> 00:45:26,200
He's very thorough.

1010
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,110
But it is also interesting
that you--

1011
00:45:28,110 --> 00:45:28,910
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

1012
00:45:28,910 --> 00:45:31,370
and that's all right-- that you
think, well, I'm killing

1013
00:45:31,370 --> 00:45:32,350
all of these people--

1014
00:45:32,350 --> 00:45:33,200
AUDIENCE: So that I
can then kill him,

1015
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:34,030
probably, or something.

1016
00:45:34,030 --> 00:45:35,970
GUEST SPEAKER: Right, or it's
for a greater good, right,

1017
00:45:35,970 --> 00:45:39,260
that I'm going to get in with
this group and help bring down

1018
00:45:39,260 --> 00:45:43,880
this terrorist cell, whereas,
ha, ha, not so much.

1019
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:48,056
Call of Duty, has anyone
played Black Ops?

1020
00:45:48,056 --> 00:45:49,340
AUDIENCE: Not yet.

1021
00:45:49,340 --> 00:45:53,250
GUEST SPEAKER: There's a scene
in it, another level where you

1022
00:45:53,250 --> 00:45:55,850
can assassinate Castro.

1023
00:45:55,850 --> 00:45:57,830
And I was just watching it--

1024
00:45:57,830 --> 00:45:58,880
AUDIENCE: It pissed
off Castro.

1025
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:00,320
GUEST SPEAKER: --this morning.

1026
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:01,320
AUDIENCE: It did.

1027
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:01,760
They--

1028
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:09,200
GUEST SPEAKER: No the Cuba
objected to the video game.

1029
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:10,910
I watched that level.

1030
00:46:10,910 --> 00:46:13,680
It's not nearly as exciting
as this one.

1031
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,190
Although it's interesting in
that you infiltrate his

1032
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:21,370
compound, you get up to-- he's
in his bedroom with his

1033
00:46:21,370 --> 00:46:23,510
whatever she is--

1034
00:46:23,510 --> 00:46:25,040
and you shoot him.

1035
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:29,310
And in this clip the guy shot
him in the head and it slows

1036
00:46:29,310 --> 00:46:33,190
down to bullet time actually,
and you see it enter his

1037
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:35,130
forehead and he falls over.

1038
00:46:35,130 --> 00:46:39,120
And then the enraged lover
grabs the machine gun and

1039
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,080
starts firing at you
in her negligee.

1040
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,260
So you have to kill her too.

1041
00:46:43,260 --> 00:46:44,947
And, yeah, Cuba is
the operation.

1042
00:46:44,947 --> 00:46:49,398
But I don't think it takes a
lot to get Cuba mad at the

1043
00:46:49,398 --> 00:46:50,016
United States anyway.

1044
00:46:50,016 --> 00:46:51,500
AUDIENCE: Can you score that?

1045
00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:54,190
I don't see the statistics,
the like statistics.

1046
00:46:54,190 --> 00:46:55,320
[INAUDIBLE].

1047
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:56,430
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

1048
00:46:56,430 --> 00:46:57,120
see if I dislike.

1049
00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:58,600
AUDIENCE: It's pretty
high [INAUDIBLE].

1050
00:47:08,356 --> 00:47:10,826
PROFESSOR: In the previous
Modern Warfare

1051
00:47:10,826 --> 00:47:14,310
game there's actually--

1052
00:47:14,310 --> 00:47:17,150
I haven't seen anyone draw this
parallel, but there is a

1053
00:47:17,150 --> 00:47:20,886
level where you are in the
middle of a firefight, a US

1054
00:47:20,886 --> 00:47:25,930
Marine in some Middle Eastern
war zone, and you are told to

1055
00:47:25,930 --> 00:47:32,210
shoot at enemies who are coming
onto your center but at

1056
00:47:32,210 --> 00:47:36,130
such a range that you cannot
tell friend from foe.

1057
00:47:36,130 --> 00:47:39,030
That it's absolutely certain
that whatever it is you can

1058
00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:41,680
get there's a 50% chance
that there's

1059
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,840
actually one of your allies.

1060
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:45,950
AUDIENCE: There's also
the really creepy--

1061
00:47:45,950 --> 00:47:47,050
PROFESSOR: Gunship sequence.

1062
00:47:47,050 --> 00:47:49,025
AUDIENCE: --the gunship
sequence, which is--

1063
00:47:49,025 --> 00:47:50,750
PROFESSOR: Which gets most
of the attention.

1064
00:47:50,750 --> 00:47:59,146
But I was surprised by the
subtlety of the sequence where

1065
00:47:59,146 --> 00:48:02,279
you are just in the middle of a
firefight in Modern Warfare

1066
00:48:02,279 --> 00:48:06,230
1 because it has that situation
of you are being

1067
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:13,445
told to kill but you may not,
even though everyone that you

1068
00:48:13,445 --> 00:48:16,090
might be shooting at is a
combatant, you may not want to

1069
00:48:16,090 --> 00:48:19,140
shoot everyone in this space.

1070
00:48:19,140 --> 00:48:21,720
I felt that made a more
interesting, subtle point

1071
00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:22,150
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

1072
00:48:22,150 --> 00:48:26,180
That's kind of what the
situation of being in the

1073
00:48:26,180 --> 00:48:31,264
Middle East right now is like,
as far as you can tell.

1074
00:48:31,264 --> 00:48:34,570
GUEST SPEAKER: I was thinking
about this because I actually

1075
00:48:34,570 --> 00:48:39,260
did an interview last week, two
weeks ago, with some radio

1076
00:48:39,260 --> 00:48:42,150
people and it was about Black
Ops being released because

1077
00:48:42,150 --> 00:48:45,190
it's the best selling
entertainment media ever.

1078
00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:47,750
And they introduced it, of
course, on the segment as the

1079
00:48:47,750 --> 00:48:51,620
ultra violent video game,
Call of Duty.

1080
00:48:51,620 --> 00:48:53,560
AUDIENCE: That's pretty
accurate.

1081
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,970
GUEST SPEAKER: It is please.

1082
00:48:55,970 --> 00:49:00,370
And one of the questions that
each affiliate asked over and

1083
00:49:00,370 --> 00:49:03,850
over is they mentioned the
Castro level and they said,

1084
00:49:03,850 --> 00:49:07,290
have video games gone too far?

1085
00:49:07,290 --> 00:49:10,830
Is there a line that shouldn't
be crossed?

1086
00:49:10,830 --> 00:49:14,730
And I'm sure if they had-- none
of these people actually

1087
00:49:14,730 --> 00:49:17,285
played video games
so they were just

1088
00:49:17,285 --> 00:49:19,250
reading their scripts--

1089
00:49:19,250 --> 00:49:22,400
this might have even fit
even better in terms of

1090
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:23,950
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

1091
00:49:23,950 --> 00:49:27,136
AUDIENCE: I'm surprised
this got through.

1092
00:49:27,136 --> 00:49:29,750
GUEST SPEAKER: Well it's
an optional level.

1093
00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:31,830
You don't have to do it.

1094
00:49:31,830 --> 00:49:33,560
Interesting comment
right there.

1095
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,800
If it was JFK airport
or US citizens--

1096
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:42,440
But leaving aside just the knee
jerk gamer defense, well,

1097
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,690
it's just for fun or it's just
a video game, how do you

1098
00:49:45,690 --> 00:49:47,250
answer that question?

1099
00:49:47,250 --> 00:49:51,580
I know what I spew to them but
I'm just curious in terms of

1100
00:49:51,580 --> 00:49:56,150
what does it mean beyond just
games as statistics for the

1101
00:49:56,150 --> 00:49:57,660
good or the dark side?

1102
00:50:00,460 --> 00:50:02,330
Is there a point you think
where it can go too

1103
00:50:02,330 --> 00:50:04,590
far with the game?

1104
00:50:04,590 --> 00:50:07,870
What's the assumption behind
that question?

1105
00:50:07,870 --> 00:50:12,790
AUDIENCE: There's a really
disturbing news report I was

1106
00:50:12,790 --> 00:50:18,120
reading about this Japanese
game called RapeLay.

1107
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:22,040
And for me it was clear this is
totally messed up, I can't

1108
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,530
believe this exists.

1109
00:50:24,530 --> 00:50:29,020
But the part that was disturbing
was the defense put

1110
00:50:29,020 --> 00:50:31,580
forth by the developers.

1111
00:50:31,580 --> 00:50:34,810
And they were saying who are you
guys to be telling us this

1112
00:50:34,810 --> 00:50:35,990
is messed up.

1113
00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:38,190
You Americans, you make games
all the time where you have to

1114
00:50:38,190 --> 00:50:39,490
kill people.

1115
00:50:39,490 --> 00:50:43,750
Murder is a much worse
crime than rape.

1116
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:46,600
Our game is not nearly
as bad as, say, this.

1117
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,690
And I was, wait, no, but
that's more messed up.

1118
00:50:50,690 --> 00:50:52,710
But, what?

1119
00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:55,535
And I don't know what
to think of it.

1120
00:50:55,535 --> 00:50:58,285
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]

1121
00:50:58,285 --> 00:50:58,760
AUDIENCE: What?

1122
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,005
AUDIENCE: In a South Park
episode they address it

1123
00:51:02,005 --> 00:51:04,312
[UNINTELLIGIBLE]

1124
00:51:04,312 --> 00:51:07,570
AUDIENCE: Actually, just
online on that game in

1125
00:51:07,570 --> 00:51:10,114
particular there was a backlash
that I heard in Japan

1126
00:51:10,114 --> 00:51:14,120
about RapeLay mainly because
the game had been out for

1127
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:18,360
maybe two years and gone
completely unnoticed until,

1128
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,520
basically, the West heard about
it, American and Europe.

1129
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:23,960
Because I think it showed up on
Amazon.com or something at

1130
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:24,820
some point.

1131
00:51:24,820 --> 00:51:26,986
And of course, there was
a gigantic controversy.

1132
00:51:26,986 --> 00:51:29,004
The media blew it
up completely,

1133
00:51:29,004 --> 00:51:30,932
and so then, in Japan--

1134
00:51:30,932 --> 00:51:34,306
was it banned in
Japan, I think?

1135
00:51:34,306 --> 00:51:35,270
AUDIENCE: No.

1136
00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:35,752
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

1137
00:51:35,752 --> 00:51:37,633
AUDIENCE: But it had been out
for a while and no one had

1138
00:51:37,633 --> 00:51:37,753
paid attention.

1139
00:51:37,753 --> 00:51:39,182
All of a sudden--

1140
00:51:39,182 --> 00:51:41,200
AUDIENCE: Apparently Japanese
politicians started cracking

1141
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:42,730
down on these types of games.

1142
00:51:42,730 --> 00:51:45,270
And a lot of fans got really
angry and they said this is

1143
00:51:45,270 --> 00:51:49,130
just like your Western
Euro-centric view, and why is

1144
00:51:49,130 --> 00:51:51,090
this backlashing onto
us kind of thing.

1145
00:51:51,090 --> 00:51:54,200
PROFESSOR: The only reason why
there was a backlash was

1146
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,470
because of political
attention not

1147
00:51:56,470 --> 00:51:59,880
necessarily because of moral--

1148
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,470
AUDIENCE: A lot of our
moral framework is

1149
00:52:02,470 --> 00:52:05,180
Judeo-Christian in nature.

1150
00:52:05,180 --> 00:52:08,550
I read an entire Wikipedia
article on such things

1151
00:52:08,550 --> 00:52:10,720
afterwards.

1152
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:15,120
Child pornography, as long as
it doesn't actually show the

1153
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,000
actors, so representations,
animated, 3D, whatever is not

1154
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,640
illegal in Japan.

1155
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,110
And there's no real
political pressure

1156
00:52:24,110 --> 00:52:25,720
either to make it illegal.

1157
00:52:25,720 --> 00:52:28,090
It's just not part of the public
consciousness that it's

1158
00:52:28,090 --> 00:52:31,190
something that needs
to be made illegal.

1159
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:36,240
And the point is not a weird
point, completely crazy, that

1160
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:40,580
killing people is probably
the worst crime.

1161
00:52:40,580 --> 00:52:42,980
And the West makes games that
advocate that all the time.

1162
00:52:46,312 --> 00:52:48,395
AUDIENCE: So the question
of [INTERPOSING VOICES]

1163
00:52:48,395 --> 00:52:49,596
AUDIENCE: Would there
probably be a radio

1164
00:52:49,596 --> 00:52:52,837
interview with that answer?

1165
00:52:52,837 --> 00:52:56,390
AUDIENCE: In terms of the
question of whether or not a

1166
00:52:56,390 --> 00:52:58,520
game crosses the line first
assumes that there is a line

1167
00:52:58,520 --> 00:52:59,315
to be crossed.

1168
00:52:59,315 --> 00:53:03,710
And second, I guess, my answer
would be yes there is a line

1169
00:53:03,710 --> 00:53:05,140
but that line is basically
whether or not

1170
00:53:05,140 --> 00:53:05,990
people buy the game.

1171
00:53:05,990 --> 00:53:08,120
If people buy the game
the game hasn't

1172
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,052
really crossed the line.

1173
00:53:10,052 --> 00:53:16,850
AUDIENCE: So [UNINTELLIGIBLE],
the video reminds me of the

1174
00:53:16,850 --> 00:53:20,440
game of 9/11, where you
are a person on

1175
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:21,800
one of the top floors--

1176
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:22,940
GUEST SPEAKER: Oh, and
you could jump.

1177
00:53:22,940 --> 00:53:23,530
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

1178
00:53:23,530 --> 00:53:25,230
Well, that's the only
way to end the game.

1179
00:53:25,230 --> 00:53:28,340
You can go any way you want
but there's no escape.

1180
00:53:28,340 --> 00:53:33,785
And so the only way to end the
game is to jump out a window.

1181
00:53:33,785 --> 00:53:38,784
GUEST SPEAKER: That had
the same response.

1182
00:53:38,784 --> 00:53:41,510
AUDIENCE: I was just going to
say, back on the point of is

1183
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:42,630
there a line or not?

1184
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:45,060
I think the line is not
a line on whether it

1185
00:53:45,060 --> 00:53:45,960
becomes OK or not.

1186
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:46,725
It's a line between--

1187
00:53:46,725 --> 00:53:48,690
I know we mentioned this
before, but-- between

1188
00:53:48,690 --> 00:53:49,940
pornography and art.

1189
00:53:52,090 --> 00:53:55,350
There's ways to take pictures of
naked human bodies and it's

1190
00:53:55,350 --> 00:53:57,580
artful and people respect
it and all that.

1191
00:53:57,580 --> 00:54:01,653
And there's ways in games to
represent killing and rape and

1192
00:54:01,653 --> 00:54:04,790
all that kind of stuff in a way
that provides a message

1193
00:54:04,790 --> 00:54:07,090
within this framework
that makes it OK.

1194
00:54:07,090 --> 00:54:09,520
And there's games where--

1195
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,390
I think Manhunt is one of
these-- where there's no real

1196
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:15,780
point other than just displaying
just terrible,

1197
00:54:15,780 --> 00:54:18,940
terrible images for the sake
of displaying that.

1198
00:54:18,940 --> 00:54:22,610
In my mind it's very, very
similar to the discussion of

1199
00:54:22,610 --> 00:54:25,858
is that image pornography
or art?

1200
00:54:25,858 --> 00:54:28,555
AUDIENCE: See, I think that's
the right way to go with this

1201
00:54:28,555 --> 00:54:31,030
kind of a thing in particular.

1202
00:54:31,030 --> 00:54:34,440
I feel that there's this
question of is it doing

1203
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:36,630
anything meaningful in the game
other than just being

1204
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:37,880
gratuitous?

1205
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,915
And in this case it's
definitely, yes.

1206
00:54:39,915 --> 00:54:46,480
It progresses the plot, it makes
you think, I guess, a

1207
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,570
bit about the characters
that are involved.

1208
00:54:49,570 --> 00:54:55,120
There's character development
with Makarov here, it's

1209
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,985
showing the shady dealings
of the CIA and all

1210
00:54:57,985 --> 00:54:59,340
this kind of business.

1211
00:54:59,340 --> 00:55:02,870
It's also making a political
statement at the same time.

1212
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:07,410
So yeah, it's not just nailing
people's eyes to the ceiling

1213
00:55:07,410 --> 00:55:11,622
with a nail gun and
what have you.

1214
00:55:11,622 --> 00:55:13,613
AUDIENCE: I was thinking,
are there any games that

1215
00:55:13,613 --> 00:55:13,732
are over the line?

1216
00:55:13,732 --> 00:55:14,650
I could definitely imagine
a game that

1217
00:55:14,650 --> 00:55:16,332
would be over the line.

1218
00:55:16,332 --> 00:55:20,706
You could imagine in RapeLay, or
whatever it's called, there

1219
00:55:20,706 --> 00:55:23,622
were a customizable character
thing that you were

1220
00:55:23,622 --> 00:55:25,274
advertising, rape your
neighbors or

1221
00:55:25,274 --> 00:55:25,566
something like that.

1222
00:55:25,566 --> 00:55:27,510
I would be uncomfortable with
something like that.

1223
00:55:30,110 --> 00:55:33,380
I almost wanted to say that
there is no line if people buy

1224
00:55:33,380 --> 00:55:37,392
it, but I feel like there are
some things that they would be

1225
00:55:37,392 --> 00:55:39,630
over the line regardless of
whether people buy it or not.

1226
00:55:39,630 --> 00:55:41,860
GUEST SPEAKER: People might even
buy it because they are

1227
00:55:41,860 --> 00:55:43,040
over this line.

1228
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:44,180
AUDIENCE: Yeah, of course.

1229
00:55:44,180 --> 00:55:45,890
That's why you would buy that.

1230
00:55:45,890 --> 00:55:48,250
GUEST SPEAKER: How many of you
have played or seen Super

1231
00:55:48,250 --> 00:55:50,967
Columbine Massacre RPG?

1232
00:55:50,967 --> 00:55:53,352
How many of you have
heard of it?

1233
00:55:53,352 --> 00:55:54,310
OK.

1234
00:55:54,310 --> 00:55:57,254
Does that game cross the line?

1235
00:55:57,254 --> 00:55:58,652
AUDIENCE: Can somebody
describe this?

1236
00:55:58,652 --> 00:55:59,118
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

1237
00:55:59,118 --> 00:56:03,390
AUDIENCE: I mean, I get the
idea. from the title.

1238
00:56:03,390 --> 00:56:05,750
GUEST SPEAKER: Somebody
want to?

1239
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:13,085
PROFESSOR: It's kind of a Super
Nintendo US-style RPG.

1240
00:56:13,085 --> 00:56:17,045
It has you walking around in
this sort of Final Fantasy

1241
00:56:17,045 --> 00:56:23,320
with Nintendo era kind of
graphics with quotes and

1242
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:28,675
dialogue that have been
collected from the actual news

1243
00:56:28,675 --> 00:56:35,435
reports of the [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

1244
00:56:35,435 --> 00:56:38,900
diaries and stuff like that.

1245
00:56:38,900 --> 00:56:47,645
And yeah, it is largely about
the events leading up to and

1246
00:56:47,645 --> 00:56:48,800
the massacre itself.

1247
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,265
Yes, and you do go around-- and
I can't remember whether

1248
00:56:52,265 --> 00:56:53,255
you actually--

1249
00:56:53,255 --> 00:56:55,235
GUEST SPEAKER: You
do everything.

1250
00:56:55,235 --> 00:56:56,250
PROFESSOR: You shoot
everybody.

1251
00:56:56,250 --> 00:56:58,770
GUEST SPEAKER: You have to
sneak into the school.

1252
00:56:58,770 --> 00:57:03,370
I forget which one you start off
as, it's either Kinkel or

1253
00:57:03,370 --> 00:57:05,250
Harris, but you pick
up your friend.

1254
00:57:05,250 --> 00:57:07,527
It's very RPGish in the
beginning where you're in the

1255
00:57:07,527 --> 00:57:10,470
room because you touch objects
and it gives flashbacks to

1256
00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:13,770
your friendship with this guy
like learning how to make pipe

1257
00:57:13,770 --> 00:57:16,270
bombs behind the convenience
store.

1258
00:57:16,270 --> 00:57:17,550
And you pick him up, you
go to the school.

1259
00:57:17,550 --> 00:57:20,470
You have to sneak in and
plant some bombs.

1260
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:22,564
And after those go off then you
move through the school

1261
00:57:22,564 --> 00:57:23,560
and you're shooting.

1262
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:28,042
And it's interesting
[UNINTELLIGIBLE].

1263
00:57:28,042 --> 00:57:34,870
I've showed it to a class once
in Ohio, my old school, and

1264
00:57:34,870 --> 00:57:38,050
I'm sneaking into the school,
right, and there are security

1265
00:57:38,050 --> 00:57:40,130
cameras you have to avoid.

1266
00:57:40,130 --> 00:57:43,050
And students, you can't be
seen by them either.

1267
00:57:43,050 --> 00:57:45,760
And there's a point where I'm
trying to manipulate the

1268
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,400
character and everyone
in class is like, oh,

1269
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:49,590
that way, that way.

1270
00:57:49,590 --> 00:57:52,790
Oh, oh, you blew it, you got
seen, you got kicked out.

1271
00:57:52,790 --> 00:57:55,045
And it was like this moment
of typical gaming,

1272
00:57:55,045 --> 00:57:56,696
like, oh, you did it.

1273
00:57:56,696 --> 00:58:00,300
And then you realize, I got
kicked out of the school

1274
00:58:00,300 --> 00:58:02,068
because I was trying
to plant a bomb.

1275
00:58:02,068 --> 00:58:02,640
And this was based on

1276
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:03,980
something that really happened.

1277
00:58:03,980 --> 00:58:06,490
And it was that moment of like
you were saying with the

1278
00:58:06,490 --> 00:58:09,560
friendly fire and not sure
who you're shooting.

1279
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:14,250
And it was like, wow, this is
something that made me think

1280
00:58:14,250 --> 00:58:15,958
about what about all those other
games where I'm happy to

1281
00:58:15,958 --> 00:58:18,802
kill people, and I don't
really think about the

1282
00:58:18,802 --> 00:58:19,276
consequences.

1283
00:58:19,276 --> 00:58:20,698
And this is a game where
you are forced to.

1284
00:58:20,698 --> 00:58:22,790
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] a
really interesting parallel in

1285
00:58:22,790 --> 00:58:26,020
a film that I could think of,
The Battle of Algiers.

1286
00:58:26,020 --> 00:58:29,985
I don't know if you've seen this
but there's this scene

1287
00:58:29,985 --> 00:58:36,665
where you are following the
insurgents who are these two

1288
00:58:36,665 --> 00:58:40,940
women who've managed to smuggle
bombs into a cafe they

1289
00:58:40,940 --> 00:58:45,685
think leaders of the civilians
hang out, which is largely

1290
00:58:45,685 --> 00:58:49,680
frequented by the ruling
class French

1291
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:51,670
section of society there.

1292
00:58:51,670 --> 00:58:55,670
And there's this incredibly
tense scene where they're

1293
00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:59,835
trying to leave their bombs
in the cafe without being

1294
00:58:59,835 --> 00:59:01,767
detected and get out of there.

1295
00:59:01,767 --> 00:59:03,840
And you're like, oh my god,
are they going to be

1296
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:04,670
able to make it?

1297
00:59:04,670 --> 00:59:07,369
I hope that they can
bomb this cafe.

1298
00:59:07,369 --> 00:59:09,301
What am I thinking?

1299
00:59:09,301 --> 00:59:11,716
This is terrible.

1300
00:59:11,716 --> 00:59:16,546
And you definitely have that
same kind of tension.

1301
00:59:16,546 --> 00:59:19,900
AUDIENCE: I feel like people
devote too much emotional

1302
00:59:19,900 --> 00:59:23,910
energy into getting offended.

1303
00:59:23,910 --> 00:59:26,410
They pour their heart
and souls into

1304
00:59:26,410 --> 00:59:28,884
getting offended by things.

1305
00:59:28,884 --> 00:59:34,230
And the line for me is is it
does it advocate and is it

1306
00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:36,540
instructional?

1307
00:59:36,540 --> 00:59:39,140
If it's not either of those two
things it doesn't affect

1308
00:59:39,140 --> 00:59:43,380
me really, and if you really
want to go out and play some

1309
00:59:43,380 --> 00:59:46,620
messed up shit it's none
of my business.

1310
00:59:46,620 --> 00:59:49,796
And my line is not going to be
the same as your line, it's

1311
00:59:49,796 --> 00:59:51,090
not going to be the same
as someone else's line.

1312
00:59:51,090 --> 00:59:54,600
And because there is no human
definable line it really

1313
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:56,940
scares me that someone
could define a line.

1314
00:59:56,940 --> 01:00:00,820
And since I don't like that idea
I'd rather say that as

1315
01:00:00,820 --> 01:00:04,970
long as it's not like and then
you pull back the safety, and

1316
01:00:04,970 --> 01:00:07,500
here's how you sneak into the
airport, and then here's how

1317
01:00:07,500 --> 01:00:08,510
you shoot this.

1318
01:00:08,510 --> 01:00:10,650
As long as it's not something
like that, and now please go

1319
01:00:10,650 --> 01:00:12,340
do it, here's why you
should because

1320
01:00:12,340 --> 01:00:14,340
America is evil, or whatever.

1321
01:00:14,340 --> 01:00:16,260
That would scare me because I
think that would be increasing

1322
01:00:16,260 --> 01:00:18,445
the chances that someone shoots
me up at an airport.

1323
01:00:18,445 --> 01:00:22,840
But otherwise, because my
attitudes are so liberal and

1324
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:23,700
someone else's attitude is going
to be so conservative,

1325
01:00:23,700 --> 01:00:25,764
and oh god, someone else's
attitude is going to be even

1326
01:00:25,764 --> 01:00:28,405
more liberal than mine and be OK
with things that I wouldn't

1327
01:00:28,405 --> 01:00:28,820
feel comfortable with.

1328
01:00:28,820 --> 01:00:30,590
If I was allowed to draw a line,
someone else could draw

1329
01:00:30,590 --> 01:00:33,290
that somewhere else, either
before or after, and that

1330
01:00:33,290 --> 01:00:35,160
would just mess everything up.

1331
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:37,730
And so that's how
I feel about it.

1332
01:00:37,730 --> 01:00:40,760
And I think that the environment
right now kind of

1333
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,775
tends towards that in that--

1334
01:00:43,775 --> 01:00:44,310
AUDIENCE: [UNINTELLIGIBLE]?

1335
01:00:44,310 --> 01:00:44,920
AUDIENCE: Huh?

1336
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,050
AUDIENCE: The line drawing?

1337
01:00:46,050 --> 01:00:47,570
AUDIENCE: Yeah, in that--

1338
01:00:47,570 --> 01:00:49,650
AUDIENCE: Depends on
which line drawing?

1339
01:00:49,650 --> 01:00:51,370
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

1340
01:00:51,370 --> 01:00:53,600
People who make games are not
intrinsically, on average,

1341
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,193
really messed up, and so tend
to make stuff that they feel

1342
01:00:56,193 --> 01:00:58,410
generally comfortable with.

1343
01:00:58,410 --> 01:01:02,080
And those who are messed up,
you just draw attention to

1344
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,670
them, really, by giving
them publicity anyway.

1345
01:01:05,670 --> 01:01:07,545
For every person
who says that--

1346
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:12,825
Diablo 2 got an M rating
because of violence.

1347
01:01:12,825 --> 01:01:14,950
Now if you look at it today
it's like little sprites

1348
01:01:14,950 --> 01:01:16,400
whacking at each other.

1349
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:18,090
But that was the
line back then.

1350
01:01:18,090 --> 01:01:22,700
And if that's the line today
then this stuff is absolutely

1351
01:01:22,700 --> 01:01:24,310
horrendous and should
not be disseminated.

1352
01:01:24,310 --> 01:01:26,950
But I think it should be, and
someone else might think what

1353
01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:29,410
I think is OK is not OK.

1354
01:01:29,410 --> 01:01:33,870
It's just going to be what
I think is not OK is OK.

1355
01:01:33,870 --> 01:01:35,238
It's very complicated.

1356
01:01:35,238 --> 01:01:37,433
GUEST SPEAKER: This guy
got death threats.

1357
01:01:37,433 --> 01:01:39,798
Apparently seen this game.

1358
01:01:39,798 --> 01:01:46,635
PROFESSOR: I'd strongly like
to agree with the a lot of

1359
01:01:46,635 --> 01:01:53,240
effort being put into the line
drawing especially the public

1360
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:57,548
display of, hey, I'm drawing
the line here, mostly by

1361
01:01:57,548 --> 01:02:02,690
politicians but also by people
with some sort of possibly,

1362
01:02:02,690 --> 01:02:06,650
often self-interested agenda.

1363
01:02:06,650 --> 01:02:09,900
And both by the game industry
and by people who

1364
01:02:09,900 --> 01:02:11,770
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] the
game industry.

1365
01:02:11,770 --> 01:02:19,030
It seems like there's more
effort either being used to

1366
01:02:19,030 --> 01:02:23,320
figure out what is offensive and
what is not offensive than

1367
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:29,770
to discuss the need
that some things

1368
01:02:29,770 --> 01:02:31,190
should be able to offend.

1369
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:35,430
That we should have stuff that
needs [UNINTELLIGIBLE]

1370
01:02:39,912 --> 01:02:43,896
There needs to be some stuff
that crosses because maybe the

1371
01:02:43,896 --> 01:02:44,900
line [INAUDIBLE].

1372
01:02:44,900 --> 01:02:47,280
AUDIENCE: And it's a method to
sensitize adults to violence.

1373
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,630
There's so much violence these
days it'd be better if you

1374
01:02:49,630 --> 01:02:51,686
didn't freak out at
every little--

1375
01:02:51,686 --> 01:02:54,674
AUDIENCE: I think it's
totally OK to be

1376
01:02:54,674 --> 01:02:55,490
freaked out at things.

1377
01:02:55,490 --> 01:02:56,790
I think that you should
definitely say when you're

1378
01:02:56,790 --> 01:03:00,016
offended by something, and I
think that should be open to

1379
01:03:00,016 --> 01:03:05,860
debate like whether something
is a decent artistic

1380
01:03:05,860 --> 01:03:08,540
expression or
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

1381
01:03:08,540 --> 01:03:12,540
So there's a difference between
staging that you find

1382
01:03:12,540 --> 01:03:15,290
something offensive and
attempting to have these

1383
01:03:15,290 --> 01:03:16,460
things banned or
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

1384
01:03:16,460 --> 01:03:17,546
AUDIENCE: I agree.

1385
01:03:17,546 --> 01:03:21,110
AUDIENCE: I'm totally fine with
people wasting words on

1386
01:03:21,110 --> 01:03:22,830
saying whether it's--

1387
01:03:22,830 --> 01:03:24,200
AUDIENCE: No clearly.

1388
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:26,420
But as long as because you are
offended you think I shouldn't

1389
01:03:26,420 --> 01:03:28,610
be able to look at it,
that's the problem.

1390
01:03:28,610 --> 01:03:29,540
AUDIENCE: OK.

1391
01:03:29,540 --> 01:03:30,250
I think it's--

1392
01:03:30,250 --> 01:03:35,480
PROFESSOR: Or even better, if
by being offended you get to

1393
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:38,830
now make your point.

1394
01:03:38,830 --> 01:03:41,460
This is why it is offensive
to me and these are

1395
01:03:41,460 --> 01:03:42,730
my reasons for it.

1396
01:03:42,730 --> 01:03:46,110
It might be more informative
and actually better for

1397
01:03:46,110 --> 01:03:49,900
society to get those ideas
out into the open.

1398
01:03:49,900 --> 01:03:52,310
AUDIENCE: Suppose you get
offended by proxy?

1399
01:03:52,310 --> 01:03:56,715
It doesn't offend me but I can
see how it offends others.

1400
01:03:56,715 --> 01:03:59,910
GUEST SPEAKER: I think there's
also a conflation of taking

1401
01:03:59,910 --> 01:04:04,310
offense and discomfort because
playing these games might be

1402
01:04:04,310 --> 01:04:06,046
uncomfortable.

1403
01:04:06,046 --> 01:04:10,385
And I don't think that's
necessarily a bad thing if it

1404
01:04:10,385 --> 01:04:13,110
makes you think about, like
[UNINTELLIGIBLE] was saying,

1405
01:04:13,110 --> 01:04:15,940
or like [UNINTELLIGIBLE] game,
this Super Columbine Massacre,

1406
01:04:15,940 --> 01:04:17,740
if it makes you think about
things in a different way, or

1407
01:04:17,740 --> 01:04:18,650
like that film.

1408
01:04:18,650 --> 01:04:21,815
And especially games have the
ability to provoke that in you

1409
01:04:21,815 --> 01:04:23,430
to make you think because
you're the one.

1410
01:04:23,430 --> 01:04:24,720
Especially these games
that force you

1411
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:25,640
to do certain things.

1412
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:28,546
It's like, well, I don't even
think about is there a game

1413
01:04:28,546 --> 01:04:31,460
that you absolutely refuse
to play because there was

1414
01:04:31,460 --> 01:04:33,670
something in it that you just
really did not want to do?

1415
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:37,100
PROFESSOR: That's fine.

1416
01:04:37,100 --> 01:04:38,600
GUEST SPEAKER: OK?

1417
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:40,100
I think we'll end there.