1 00:00:00,090 --> 00:00:02,490 The following content is provided under a Creative 2 00:00:02,490 --> 00:00:04,030 Commons license. 3 00:00:04,030 --> 00:00:06,330 Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare 4 00:00:06,330 --> 00:00:10,690 continue to offer high quality educational resources for free. 5 00:00:10,690 --> 00:00:13,320 To make a donation, or view additional materials 6 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,250 from hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare 7 00:00:17,250 --> 00:00:19,335 at ocw.mit.edu. 8 00:00:19,335 --> 00:00:20,710 PROFESSOR: --have your attention. 9 00:00:20,710 --> 00:00:23,550 I'm just going to go into the lecture part. 10 00:00:23,550 --> 00:00:25,350 I was hoping to start with the pitches, 11 00:00:25,350 --> 00:00:27,320 but since so many people are missing, 12 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,550 we'll wait and do the pitches after the lecture 13 00:00:29,550 --> 00:00:30,165 part of class. 14 00:00:32,689 --> 00:00:36,390 And then we'll end class with a chance for you 15 00:00:36,390 --> 00:00:38,430 to play games based on the lecture. 16 00:00:38,430 --> 00:00:43,410 So it's gonna be kind of a weird lecture, talk about your game, 17 00:00:43,410 --> 00:00:45,930 play games with it, or lecture, and then time 18 00:00:45,930 --> 00:00:48,320 for you to talk in your teams about your game again 19 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,830 and to continue working on your projects. 20 00:00:50,830 --> 00:00:53,700 We'll bring in the prototype kits for that last bit, 21 00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:55,350 so you can start building stuff. 22 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,656 So today's reading was [INAUDIBLE]-- 23 00:01:00,656 --> 00:01:02,612 where's my copy of [INAUDIBLE]? 24 00:01:08,740 --> 00:01:09,600 Hey folks. 25 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,780 So today's reading was I think chapter 11 and 12, was 26 00:01:13,780 --> 00:01:16,070 that right? 27 00:01:16,070 --> 00:01:27,350 Space control and [INAUDIBLE] And the reason why 28 00:01:27,350 --> 00:01:28,995 I wanted you to take a look at these, 29 00:01:28,995 --> 00:01:32,989 is because it's got two sort of historical investigations-- 30 00:01:32,989 --> 00:01:35,405 well, it's got a whole bunch of historical investigations, 31 00:01:35,405 --> 00:01:36,530 a bunch of different games. 32 00:01:36,530 --> 00:01:39,780 But it kind of goes in depth into two particular games, 33 00:01:39,780 --> 00:01:41,250 one in each chapter. 34 00:01:41,250 --> 00:01:46,015 So people, remember which game is covered in the reading? 35 00:01:46,015 --> 00:01:47,350 AUDIENCE: No. 36 00:01:47,350 --> 00:01:48,800 PROFESSOR: No. 37 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,060 Really close to that, but you're one letter off. 38 00:01:52,060 --> 00:01:52,986 AUDIENCE: Go? 39 00:01:52,986 --> 00:01:53,912 PROFESSOR: Yes, Go. 40 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:58,130 And the other one was-- 41 00:01:58,130 --> 00:02:00,170 AUDIENCE: A chase game-- 42 00:02:00,170 --> 00:02:01,740 PROFESSOR: Chase game called-- 43 00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:03,284 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 44 00:02:03,284 --> 00:02:03,950 PROFESSOR: Tafl. 45 00:02:08,370 --> 00:02:10,352 The second chapter that I had you read today 46 00:02:10,352 --> 00:02:12,560 starts with like fox and geese and a bunch of things, 47 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,730 but it really goes in depth into tafl. 48 00:02:15,730 --> 00:02:21,330 And this is probably the most in-depth sort 49 00:02:21,330 --> 00:02:24,090 of historical research that you find in this entire book. 50 00:02:24,090 --> 00:02:27,390 Most of this book is like the stuff in between Go and tafl. 51 00:02:27,390 --> 00:02:32,450 Where it's like, four paragraphs at most on any particular game, 52 00:02:32,450 --> 00:02:36,130 and it's just talking about variants, right? 53 00:02:36,130 --> 00:02:38,737 He talks about reversi, which is, what, 200 years old? 54 00:02:38,737 --> 00:02:39,570 Something like that. 55 00:02:39,570 --> 00:02:41,760 I can't remember the exact number, 56 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:46,280 but he only gives like maybe two or three paragraphs 57 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:47,137 on this history. 58 00:02:47,137 --> 00:02:49,470 Everything else, is just this is how the game is played. 59 00:02:49,470 --> 00:02:50,990 These are the mechanics. 60 00:02:50,990 --> 00:02:54,340 And so that if you wanted to figure out how this game-- 61 00:02:54,340 --> 00:02:56,340 all the things that could come up from the game, 62 00:02:56,340 --> 00:02:58,710 you could recreate it, just based on the illustrations 63 00:02:58,710 --> 00:02:59,700 and the mechanics. 64 00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:01,950 But when it comes to Go, and when it comes to tafl, 65 00:03:01,950 --> 00:03:05,820 it's a little bit more about the culture surrounding 66 00:03:05,820 --> 00:03:06,870 these particular games. 67 00:03:06,870 --> 00:03:10,140 And that's a very different take, and an interesting take. 68 00:03:10,140 --> 00:03:13,070 So if you are interested in doing sort of academic research 69 00:03:13,070 --> 00:03:16,200 in games, that's one way. 70 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:21,660 Kind of like game archeology, game historian work. 71 00:03:21,660 --> 00:03:24,960 One of our grad students, who's now 72 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,570 doing his PhD, Jason [? Bakey, ?] 73 00:03:26,570 --> 00:03:28,920 he's kind of doing that for train games, 74 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:30,540 and evolutional train games. 75 00:03:30,540 --> 00:03:33,300 Even though, obviously those couldn't have been 76 00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:36,000 invented before trains existed. 77 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,500 So they're not that old, but there are tons of them. 78 00:03:38,500 --> 00:03:41,520 And he's again, tracking is the evolution, 79 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,560 but also of the culture, the people who play these games. 80 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:50,990 So let's see, how many of you play Go? 81 00:03:50,990 --> 00:03:53,840 OK, about five people. 82 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,830 How many of you have played a version of tafl, 83 00:03:55,830 --> 00:03:58,850 enough to hitch [INAUDIBLE] tafl. 84 00:03:58,850 --> 00:04:02,117 I have no idea how to [INAUDIBLE]. 85 00:04:02,117 --> 00:04:02,825 You've played it? 86 00:04:02,825 --> 00:04:03,450 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 87 00:04:03,450 --> 00:04:05,757 PROFESSOR: On paper, on iPad? 88 00:04:05,757 --> 00:04:06,590 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 89 00:04:06,590 --> 00:04:10,530 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] I have a board, [INAUDIBLE]. 90 00:04:10,530 --> 00:04:11,440 PROFESSOR: Oh, cool. 91 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:13,020 OK. 92 00:04:13,020 --> 00:04:16,019 You can actually find craftsmen making 93 00:04:16,019 --> 00:04:18,240 these things, tafl boards. 94 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:24,420 Even though the rules, as if you read the book, 95 00:04:24,420 --> 00:04:28,610 the rules aren't really well-understood. 96 00:04:28,610 --> 00:04:32,430 There's no canonical explanation of here are the pieces, 97 00:04:32,430 --> 00:04:34,869 and here are the rules, here's what you do with them. 98 00:04:34,869 --> 00:04:36,660 Because if you find a little bit about one, 99 00:04:36,660 --> 00:04:38,284 you find a little bit about the others. 100 00:04:38,284 --> 00:04:43,080 So there are some archaeological evidence for here 101 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,920 are the different pieces for a full set of tafl, 102 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,910 and they don't tell you what to do with it. 103 00:04:48,910 --> 00:04:49,970 And then there's another set that's 104 00:04:49,970 --> 00:04:51,969 just like, just what you do with all the pieces, 105 00:04:51,969 --> 00:04:55,730 but it seems to be describing a different set of pieces. 106 00:04:55,730 --> 00:05:00,660 Or a different number of pieces, and you're not quite sure. 107 00:05:00,660 --> 00:05:06,990 But you get a lot of stuff like poetic records 108 00:05:06,990 --> 00:05:09,660 of the significance of the pieces. 109 00:05:09,660 --> 00:05:13,050 That gives you a clue about what people thought of these pieces, 110 00:05:13,050 --> 00:05:15,050 and gives a clue of what these pieces can do. 111 00:05:15,050 --> 00:05:18,850 And again, there are some descriptions 112 00:05:18,850 --> 00:05:21,570 of particular plays of this game, which 113 00:05:21,570 --> 00:05:24,660 gives you an idea of how these pieces can be made. 114 00:05:24,660 --> 00:05:29,842 But viewed within sort of larger context of his asymmetric board 115 00:05:29,842 --> 00:05:36,870 game, that is largely involving one group 116 00:05:36,870 --> 00:05:41,240 of pieces trying to capture either 117 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:46,500 all or a particular group of the other players. 118 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:49,440 That's basically the whole genre of the chase game, 119 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,150 of the fox and geese type game. 120 00:05:52,150 --> 00:05:54,925 And viewed from that context of here 121 00:05:54,925 --> 00:05:57,300 are all these other games that have survived a little bit 122 00:05:57,300 --> 00:06:00,060 better Like the English fox and geese, 123 00:06:00,060 --> 00:06:02,420 this is what we can intuit. 124 00:06:02,420 --> 00:06:06,551 It is kind of a siege game, where both sides have soldiers, 125 00:06:06,551 --> 00:06:08,800 but one of them is explicitly trying to kill the king. 126 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,850 But one side doesn't have a king, 127 00:06:10,850 --> 00:06:12,190 and is trying to kill the king. 128 00:06:12,190 --> 00:06:14,627 And the other side has a king, and a bunch of bodyguards, 129 00:06:14,627 --> 00:06:16,210 and they're trying to defend the king. 130 00:06:16,210 --> 00:06:19,980 The whole idea is sometimes it's to get the king to an escape 131 00:06:19,980 --> 00:06:23,572 route, sometimes it's just survive 132 00:06:23,572 --> 00:06:26,370 a certain number of moves, or to get to a particular point 133 00:06:26,370 --> 00:06:28,980 on the board. 134 00:06:28,980 --> 00:06:32,880 And one thing that I would like you 135 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,760 to think about, if you haven't read it, do 136 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:37,830 read through these two chapters just 137 00:06:37,830 --> 00:06:41,714 to get a slightly better idea of what you can do with space. 138 00:06:41,714 --> 00:06:43,380 It's one thing that we've been noticing, 139 00:06:43,380 --> 00:06:46,990 that in some of the games that have been prototyped 140 00:06:46,990 --> 00:06:55,910 in this class, space isn't always used very creatively. 141 00:06:55,910 --> 00:06:58,950 We see games that are being played out on grids, 142 00:06:58,950 --> 00:07:04,530 we've been seeing games where you can move freely 143 00:07:04,530 --> 00:07:06,330 throughout the whole grid. 144 00:07:06,330 --> 00:07:10,680 But then, what does each individual square actually 145 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:15,350 mean in relation to other pieces on the same board? 146 00:07:15,350 --> 00:07:18,570 It's something that these games actually do really well, 147 00:07:18,570 --> 00:07:22,480 both the games of territorial capture, which 148 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,320 the goal was all about. 149 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,640 And the chase games, which are these asymmetric games where 150 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,750 you try to surround your opponent. 151 00:07:34,330 --> 00:07:37,440 Go and tafl are not the only two games that describe in here. 152 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,750 There's a huge amount of variation and thought 153 00:07:39,750 --> 00:07:42,360 about what you can particularly do 154 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:47,550 when it comes to manipulating space, being surrounded. 155 00:07:47,550 --> 00:07:50,880 What does it mean to have two of your opposing 156 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,810 pieces on either side of you, or at the l-shape of you. 157 00:07:54,810 --> 00:07:58,050 What does it mean to be on a square grid? 158 00:07:58,050 --> 00:08:01,440 Especially in a game like in Go, it's 159 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,980 a game that's played on squares. 160 00:08:04,980 --> 00:08:08,160 On the corners of all squares, in particular. 161 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,689 And it's very, very important that what's to the top, 162 00:08:10,689 --> 00:08:11,730 and what's to the bottom. 163 00:08:11,730 --> 00:08:13,860 And what's towards the left, and to the right of every piece 164 00:08:13,860 --> 00:08:15,026 is really, really important. 165 00:08:15,026 --> 00:08:18,870 But what's to the diagonals isn't really so important, 166 00:08:18,870 --> 00:08:21,820 until you consider meta strategy. 167 00:08:21,820 --> 00:08:24,870 What's the effect of a clump of pieces, 168 00:08:24,870 --> 00:08:27,750 rather than a single piece. 169 00:08:27,750 --> 00:08:30,370 The other thing about the section on Go, 170 00:08:30,370 --> 00:08:33,750 in particular, is that you get this huge amount of vocabulary. 171 00:08:33,750 --> 00:08:42,080 Words like liberties, the way how scores are being added up. 172 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:43,600 Words from different languages. 173 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,680 Korean, and Chinese, and Japanese. 174 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:50,240 But most of the research in this particular book 175 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,560 refer specifically to the Japanese tradition. 176 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:56,200 So most of the terms are used in Japanese. 177 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,490 How many of you heard of Atari? 178 00:08:59,490 --> 00:09:00,263 Come on. 179 00:09:00,263 --> 00:09:03,120 AUDIENCE: You said Atari? 180 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:04,410 PROFESSOR: OK, all right. 181 00:09:04,410 --> 00:09:07,830 That's actually supposed to be a derivation of atari, 182 00:09:07,830 --> 00:09:11,910 which is a Go term. 183 00:09:11,910 --> 00:09:14,810 Don't ask me what it means, I don't actually play Go. 184 00:09:14,810 --> 00:09:17,820 But these words have kind of worked its way 185 00:09:17,820 --> 00:09:24,480 into even cultures that don't play Go that much, like in much 186 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,320 of the Western world. 187 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,100 In the same way [INAUDIBLE] has made its way 188 00:09:31,100 --> 00:09:34,260 into talking about games of chance, 189 00:09:34,260 --> 00:09:37,820 because that means dice in Latin. 190 00:09:37,820 --> 00:09:42,030 Die, specifically, in Latin. 191 00:09:42,030 --> 00:09:44,760 It's in the same way that sometimes we 192 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,280 talk about being checkmated, even 193 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,180 when you're not playing a chess game. 194 00:09:51,180 --> 00:09:54,260 I'm trying to think of other chess terminology that 195 00:09:54,260 --> 00:09:57,895 tends to make its way into common English parlance. 196 00:09:57,895 --> 00:10:01,130 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 197 00:10:01,130 --> 00:10:02,046 PROFESSOR: [INAUDIBLE] 198 00:10:02,046 --> 00:10:03,444 AUDIENCE: Yeah, [INAUDIBLE]. 199 00:10:06,674 --> 00:10:08,007 PROFESSOR: The least worst move. 200 00:10:12,870 --> 00:10:15,410 That's a new tone. 201 00:10:15,410 --> 00:10:17,870 I don't know if they're specifically from chess. 202 00:10:17,870 --> 00:10:20,132 I'm thinking more about like in-- 203 00:10:22,824 --> 00:10:25,240 It's a concept that applies to chess in particular, a lot. 204 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:25,739 But not-- 205 00:10:25,739 --> 00:10:27,497 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] it's probably 206 00:10:27,497 --> 00:10:31,490 a term that derives elsewhere that's [INAUDIBLE] in chess. 207 00:10:31,490 --> 00:10:33,190 But do you think about tempo in games? 208 00:10:33,190 --> 00:10:35,307 PROFESSOR: Well, I think about tempo in games. 209 00:10:35,307 --> 00:10:36,890 I don't really think about it in chess 210 00:10:36,890 --> 00:10:39,250 so much, because I don't play chess. 211 00:10:39,250 --> 00:10:43,280 But I've heard chess commentators 212 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:44,927 talk about that a lot. 213 00:10:44,927 --> 00:10:47,385 AUDIENCE: This isn't really specifically chess necessarily, 214 00:10:47,385 --> 00:10:51,680 but a lot of [INAUDIBLE] can say your move, after you're 215 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:52,970 doing something, anything. 216 00:10:52,970 --> 00:10:53,595 Usually moving. 217 00:10:53,595 --> 00:10:56,090 [INAUDIBLE] 218 00:10:56,090 --> 00:10:59,030 PROFESSOR: There's still a general cheating the world 219 00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:59,585 as a game. 220 00:10:59,585 --> 00:11:04,720 Very Sherlock Holmes-y kind of, I have such a high intellect 221 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,560 that the world is a game to me, and this crime is a game to me. 222 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:08,500 Something like that. 223 00:11:11,285 --> 00:11:13,410 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] I'm just thinking [INAUDIBLE] 224 00:11:13,410 --> 00:11:16,010 PROFESSOR: I'm just trying to think of all the chess-- 225 00:11:16,010 --> 00:11:21,190 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] material. 226 00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:32,695 [INAUDIBLE] the word material, as a concept of [INAUDIBLE]. 227 00:11:32,695 --> 00:11:34,195 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] position where 228 00:11:34,195 --> 00:11:38,685 you're kind of engaging, but you probably [INAUDIBLE] 229 00:11:38,685 --> 00:11:40,060 PROFESSOR: Yeah, I think that was 230 00:11:40,060 --> 00:11:41,810 a terminology that came from outside chess 231 00:11:41,810 --> 00:11:45,140 and that applied into chess. 232 00:11:45,140 --> 00:11:48,140 But I've definitely heard checkmate being used 233 00:11:48,140 --> 00:11:49,442 outside of chess specifically. 234 00:11:49,442 --> 00:11:50,900 AUDIENCE: Oh, what about stalemate? 235 00:11:50,900 --> 00:11:52,250 PROFESSOR: Oh yeah, stalemate. 236 00:11:52,250 --> 00:11:54,560 Stalemate is a situation I generally 237 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:58,790 do associate with chess more than any other game. 238 00:11:58,790 --> 00:12:01,125 But a stalemate that happens in a business situation, 239 00:12:01,125 --> 00:12:06,320 or in a negotiation, both of us have no way 240 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,410 to be able to gain an advantage upon each other. 241 00:12:09,410 --> 00:12:12,950 So that's a good way that terminology from something 242 00:12:12,950 --> 00:12:17,030 that's been as old as chess, has been as old as Go, 243 00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:20,440 we haven't preserved much from tafl unfortunately. 244 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,440 But it can work its way into sort of common parlance, 245 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,850 and that's something that he does in the analysis of Go 246 00:12:26,850 --> 00:12:29,630 that I don't see in any other analysis inside this one 247 00:12:29,630 --> 00:12:30,350 particular book. 248 00:12:30,350 --> 00:12:33,814 But you do find it in other people's writing. 249 00:12:36,540 --> 00:12:41,870 There's also a lot of talk about who play Go. 250 00:12:41,870 --> 00:12:44,780 Right now, what is the difference 251 00:12:44,780 --> 00:12:48,940 between the Japanese culture of masters. 252 00:12:48,940 --> 00:12:54,410 Are like few, almost more scholarly than scholars, 253 00:12:54,410 --> 00:12:59,300 kind of rarefied elite, who are assumed to be the absolute best 254 00:12:59,300 --> 00:13:01,460 players of all, of Go. 255 00:13:01,460 --> 00:13:02,690 At least in Japan. 256 00:13:02,690 --> 00:13:05,150 Although, that [INAUDIBLE] the best player of Go in Japan, 257 00:13:05,150 --> 00:13:07,150 you're kind of the best player of Go in general. 258 00:13:07,150 --> 00:13:11,090 But then, in Korea, you have exactly a 100 person 259 00:13:11,090 --> 00:13:12,252 professional association. 260 00:13:12,252 --> 00:13:14,210 Professional, as in you are going to make money 261 00:13:14,210 --> 00:13:15,960 playing this thing. 262 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,140 There's like a broadcast culture around it, 263 00:13:18,140 --> 00:13:21,220 kind of like e-sports before the e. 264 00:13:21,220 --> 00:13:23,070 [INAUDIBLE] game on TV, right? 265 00:13:23,070 --> 00:13:28,850 And there's a lot of hype, there's money involved in it. 266 00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:33,020 And becomes this rarefied, grand master class 267 00:13:33,020 --> 00:13:34,700 that you're trying to get into. 268 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:36,200 Because once you're into that class, 269 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,526 then you get to make the big bucks, a TV personality. 270 00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:46,460 In Chinese culture, it's a little bit more 271 00:13:46,460 --> 00:13:49,790 of a very historic thing. 272 00:13:49,790 --> 00:13:51,650 It's this thing that you could play, 273 00:13:51,650 --> 00:13:54,050 but you're playing it for historical reasons. 274 00:13:54,050 --> 00:13:59,090 It's not a concept at quite as contemporary a game as mahjong, 275 00:13:59,090 --> 00:13:59,930 for instance. 276 00:13:59,930 --> 00:14:02,170 Which is very much a social game, 277 00:14:02,170 --> 00:14:03,920 this is a game that you play with friends. 278 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:05,461 It's like a game of poker when you're 279 00:14:05,461 --> 00:14:07,900 playing a game of mahjong. 280 00:14:07,900 --> 00:14:11,120 [INAUDIBLE] doesn't have that kind of cultural resonance. 281 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,330 Even though, it's the same physical-- more or less, 282 00:14:13,330 --> 00:14:14,570 the same physical game as Go. 283 00:14:14,570 --> 00:14:16,670 I think there's some minor scoring changes, 284 00:14:16,670 --> 00:14:19,820 but otherwise the play of the game is the same. 285 00:14:19,820 --> 00:14:25,700 So the evolution of how this game started off 286 00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:29,730 as almost a spiritual activity. 287 00:14:29,730 --> 00:14:33,700 It was something that was promoted by monks, as something 288 00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:35,810 that helped meditation. 289 00:14:35,810 --> 00:14:39,390 And then moved its way from that into royal courts, 290 00:14:39,390 --> 00:14:41,390 and then eventually, the rest of the population. 291 00:14:41,390 --> 00:14:45,690 For people who aspire to those kinds of high, lofty, social 292 00:14:45,690 --> 00:14:46,190 positions. 293 00:14:46,190 --> 00:14:47,750 It was seen to be a sort of activity 294 00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:49,294 that really smart people will do. 295 00:14:49,294 --> 00:14:51,710 And then, if you can demonstrate that you're really smart, 296 00:14:51,710 --> 00:14:54,810 then you can get jobs for really smart people. 297 00:14:54,810 --> 00:14:58,870 Which apparently pay pretty well in Asia. 298 00:15:05,732 --> 00:15:07,440 Then if you've got the actual description 299 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,370 of how the game is played. 300 00:15:09,370 --> 00:15:11,880 But even in this particular write up, 301 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,140 the way how they describe the play of the game 302 00:15:16,140 --> 00:15:18,340 goes beyond the mechanics very, very quickly. 303 00:15:18,340 --> 00:15:22,140 Because the nice thing about Go, is that the actual rules of Go 304 00:15:22,140 --> 00:15:24,330 are pretty darn simple. 305 00:15:24,330 --> 00:15:29,100 The idea of Go is pretty darn simple. 306 00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:31,060 There are black and white stones, 307 00:15:31,060 --> 00:15:33,900 each player plays all black or all white stones. 308 00:15:36,972 --> 00:15:38,130 You play on the grid. 309 00:15:44,050 --> 00:15:48,180 I'm not going to draw the exact number of lines, but-- 310 00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:49,180 it's that sort of thing. 311 00:15:49,180 --> 00:15:52,470 You play on the intersections. 312 00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:56,530 And if you've got a situation like this, where you've 313 00:15:56,530 --> 00:15:58,300 got one colored completely surrounded 314 00:15:58,300 --> 00:16:04,280 by the other color on all four sides, 315 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:05,710 this piece is eliminated. 316 00:16:05,710 --> 00:16:08,620 It's captured, it's taken off the board. 317 00:16:08,620 --> 00:16:13,530 And you can't repeat the same board [INAUDIBLE] immediately. 318 00:16:13,530 --> 00:16:16,920 Like if I have a weird situation where 319 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,920 I've got a black piece here, I've got a black piece here, 320 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,622 I've got a black piece here. 321 00:16:25,060 --> 00:16:26,590 I think that's right. 322 00:16:26,590 --> 00:16:29,080 And then I immediately place a black piece here, 323 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,680 so I captured this piece. 324 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,602 Your opponent can't then put a white piece here, 325 00:16:34,602 --> 00:16:35,560 and capture that piece. 326 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,320 Because that returns the board back to the state 327 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,350 that it was just a couple of seconds ago. 328 00:16:42,350 --> 00:16:44,529 That's basically the rules. 329 00:16:44,529 --> 00:16:47,070 There's a whole chunk of rules on how you figure out who won, 330 00:16:47,070 --> 00:16:48,920 by basically scoring things. 331 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,420 And I've seen students show me many different ways of scoring 332 00:16:52,420 --> 00:16:55,360 that, some of them pretty elegant, some of them 333 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,290 pretty clumsy, but they all add up to the same numbers. 334 00:16:59,290 --> 00:17:03,040 So it's basically a lot of different algorithms 335 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,970 to get the same result. But in the end, 336 00:17:06,970 --> 00:17:10,450 the basic idea is just surround your opponent. 337 00:17:10,450 --> 00:17:15,210 But once you get from that into all of the higher level 338 00:17:15,210 --> 00:17:16,300 strategies of the-- 339 00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:20,920 OK, out of this game mechanic, what are all of the things 340 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,345 that you have to do to be able to play out this game 341 00:17:24,345 --> 00:17:25,579 to your own advantage. 342 00:17:25,579 --> 00:17:27,040 You start going into things like, 343 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,950 how important is it to be able to capture 344 00:17:29,950 --> 00:17:32,330 the corners of the board, for instance. 345 00:17:32,330 --> 00:17:33,940 What are the typical opening moves 346 00:17:33,940 --> 00:17:36,580 that you see in this game? 347 00:17:36,580 --> 00:17:39,865 Where in his same analysis, in the same chapter of reversi 348 00:17:39,865 --> 00:17:43,300 in Othello, it just largely comes down to, 349 00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:47,281 are you playing your pieces like this. 350 00:17:47,281 --> 00:17:52,489 Or are you playing your pieces like this. 351 00:17:52,489 --> 00:17:54,030 Or do you not have the choice at all, 352 00:17:54,030 --> 00:17:55,800 because you're playing Othello, and that's 353 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,480 what you started with. 354 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,340 That's basically the entire analysis of your opening moves 355 00:18:00,340 --> 00:18:02,010 of Othello that he gives. 356 00:18:02,010 --> 00:18:04,380 But then when you're go into Go, there's 357 00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:08,610 a whole section on why the opening moves have 358 00:18:08,610 --> 00:18:11,510 such a long term impact. 359 00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:14,500 And like chess, there is an opening game, 360 00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:16,410 there's a mid-game, there's an endgame. 361 00:18:16,410 --> 00:18:19,980 The end game is kind of like, no real surprises at that point. 362 00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:21,490 You're just kind of rounding up what 363 00:18:21,490 --> 00:18:22,740 was developed in the mid game. 364 00:18:22,740 --> 00:18:25,530 The mid game is where all the really 365 00:18:25,530 --> 00:18:28,410 sort of strike from behind, caught you 366 00:18:28,410 --> 00:18:30,500 by surprise stuff happens. 367 00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:32,720 And the beginning of the game is just 368 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,970 setting up those situations so that that kind of thing 369 00:18:35,970 --> 00:18:36,500 can happen. 370 00:18:41,130 --> 00:18:46,110 I think it is nice to be able to try to imagine what a game that 371 00:18:46,110 --> 00:18:49,960 has been around that long, that can develop all that richness. 372 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,860 This cultural richness, its game mechanic and strategy richness. 373 00:18:54,860 --> 00:18:57,510 That sort of linguistic richness-- 374 00:18:57,510 --> 00:19:00,090 how nice it will be to be like the person who 375 00:19:00,090 --> 00:19:01,410 designs the game like that. 376 00:19:01,410 --> 00:19:05,570 Except no one will ever remember you, which is kind of sad. 377 00:19:05,570 --> 00:19:12,760 But also, what would that kind of game have to have? 378 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,640 And I like also indulge in a little brainstorming. 379 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,890 It's like, if you wanted to-- if it's explicitly your goal 380 00:19:19,890 --> 00:19:22,830 to work with a team, to try to develop a game that people 381 00:19:22,830 --> 00:19:27,090 will be playing 1,000 years from now. 382 00:19:27,090 --> 00:19:28,720 What would a game have to have? 383 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,875 What do they need to be? 384 00:19:30,875 --> 00:19:34,592 AUDIENCE: It really has to be just like chess 385 00:19:34,592 --> 00:19:37,440 or go, in the sense that it has to be simple to learn, 386 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,401 and infinite strategy. 387 00:19:42,263 --> 00:19:45,012 It has to be entirely unbreakable. 388 00:19:45,012 --> 00:19:45,970 PROFESSOR: Unbreakable? 389 00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:47,533 As in-- 390 00:19:47,533 --> 00:19:51,780 AUDIENCE: As in no computer could ever solve Go. 391 00:19:51,780 --> 00:19:53,275 In the history of humanity, it'll 392 00:19:53,275 --> 00:19:54,734 just probably never happen. 393 00:19:54,734 --> 00:19:58,350 PROFESSOR: Well, no computer's solved it, yet. 394 00:19:58,350 --> 00:20:00,830 I'm not sure if anyone's proven that it can't be solved. 395 00:20:00,830 --> 00:20:01,510 AUDIENCE: No, [INAUDIBLE] 396 00:20:01,510 --> 00:20:02,176 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 397 00:20:02,176 --> 00:20:03,350 AUDIENCE: Probably can. 398 00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:06,900 The numbers are astronomical. 399 00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:08,880 The chess numbers are astronomical. 400 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:09,830 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 401 00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:12,570 PROFESSOR: The test numbers are huge. 402 00:20:12,570 --> 00:20:16,070 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] no way to simplify the problem. 403 00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:19,916 If you're saying [INAUDIBLE] can't be solved, [INAUDIBLE]. 404 00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:30,585 Rubik's cube can be solved [INAUDIBLE]-- 405 00:20:30,585 --> 00:20:33,010 any Rubik's cube can be solved in 20 or fewer intervals. 406 00:20:33,010 --> 00:20:40,800 [INAUDIBLE] 407 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:46,366 AUDIENCE: They actually sort of just figured out [INAUDIBLE] 408 00:20:46,366 --> 00:20:47,740 and then solved all those pieces. 409 00:20:47,740 --> 00:20:49,410 [INAUDIBLE] 410 00:20:49,410 --> 00:20:54,060 PROFESSOR: So again, that's hard to reduce into a simple form, 411 00:20:54,060 --> 00:20:55,590 which then can be solved. 412 00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:57,900 It gives you an idea that there's always 413 00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:01,564 going to be at least a minimum a level of complexity. 414 00:21:01,564 --> 00:21:16,190 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 415 00:21:16,190 --> 00:21:17,900 PROFESSOR: Yeah, I can imagine that. 416 00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:19,649 But there are sports that have been around 417 00:21:19,649 --> 00:21:22,610 for a real long time, and you know, 418 00:21:22,610 --> 00:21:26,880 I try to think of one that's been around for 1,000 years. 419 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,600 I'm thinking javelin probably has been around at least that 420 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,015 long? 421 00:21:32,015 --> 00:21:34,860 Those are dexterous games. 422 00:21:34,860 --> 00:21:36,740 But [INAUDIBLE] make a board game, 423 00:21:36,740 --> 00:21:39,650 you're gonna make a board game to last the length of time, 424 00:21:39,650 --> 00:21:44,195 it can't be something like a flicking game. 425 00:21:44,195 --> 00:21:46,820 I've played flicking games that have been around, but maybe not 426 00:21:46,820 --> 00:21:48,068 1,000 years. 427 00:21:48,068 --> 00:21:49,750 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 428 00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:51,890 PROFESSOR: How long has chess been around? 429 00:21:51,890 --> 00:21:54,350 Someone with Wikipedia should answer that question. 430 00:21:54,350 --> 00:21:58,510 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 431 00:21:58,510 --> 00:22:02,380 PROFESSOR: It has gone through several different versions. 432 00:22:02,380 --> 00:22:04,970 Like there's a time where the queen was a vizier. 433 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,740 We're talking about versions of the game that 434 00:22:09,740 --> 00:22:12,650 existed in India, and in the Middle East. 435 00:22:12,650 --> 00:22:13,650 AUDIENCE: Sixth century. 436 00:22:13,650 --> 00:22:14,941 PROFESSOR: Sixth century, yeah. 437 00:22:14,941 --> 00:22:17,870 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 438 00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:21,860 PROFESSOR: I think the most recent version-- 439 00:22:21,860 --> 00:22:23,720 the most recent change I think, would 440 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,200 be the power of the queen. 441 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,020 And that was Queen Isabella? 442 00:22:29,020 --> 00:22:36,140 AUDIENCE: Kind of, it's like mid 1400s, early 1500s in Spain. 443 00:22:36,140 --> 00:22:45,400 [INAUDIBLE] but that's about when she gets the-- 444 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,599 PROFESSOR: The zoom right across the board thing. 445 00:22:47,599 --> 00:22:53,664 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 446 00:22:53,664 --> 00:22:54,330 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 447 00:22:54,330 --> 00:22:57,690 And I'm not so sure. 448 00:22:57,690 --> 00:23:00,700 There are a lot of iterations over how 449 00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:04,710 a tournament needs to be played out, the long details. 450 00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:06,400 But then things like-- 451 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,380 basic things, like how does a piece move. 452 00:23:08,380 --> 00:23:12,240 I think the biggest change was probably the queen's. 453 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,070 So I was talking about like 1400s or 1600s, 454 00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:18,515 but then that's a 200 period. 455 00:23:18,515 --> 00:23:20,890 When you have a bunch of really powerful European queens, 456 00:23:20,890 --> 00:23:21,640 right? 457 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,856 That inspires this. 458 00:23:23,856 --> 00:23:27,939 AUDIENCE: The game has to be very, very, very balanced. 459 00:23:27,939 --> 00:23:28,980 PROFESSOR: Very balanced? 460 00:23:28,980 --> 00:23:32,260 As in, both sides has a good chance of succeeding? 461 00:23:32,260 --> 00:23:32,898 Yeah. 462 00:23:32,898 --> 00:23:41,720 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] but it's not like-- 463 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,970 PROFESSOR: I don't think [INAUDIBLE] is saying that it 464 00:23:43,970 --> 00:23:46,510 has to be exactly balanced. 465 00:23:46,510 --> 00:23:48,070 Just pretty darn close. 466 00:23:48,070 --> 00:23:51,052 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 467 00:23:51,052 --> 00:23:52,760 PROFESSOR: The 55-45 is not close at all. 468 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:53,380 I [INAUDIBLE]. 469 00:23:53,380 --> 00:24:03,510 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 470 00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:04,830 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 471 00:24:04,830 --> 00:24:07,626 AUDIENCE: Play a [INAUDIBLE] 472 00:24:07,626 --> 00:24:10,564 AUDIENCE: So consider the concept of grand master play 473 00:24:10,564 --> 00:24:12,300 [INAUDIBLE] in tournaments where they're 474 00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:16,846 playing [INAUDIBLE] they're not going to play 475 00:24:16,846 --> 00:24:18,010 to win every single game. 476 00:24:18,010 --> 00:24:20,885 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] something along the lines 477 00:24:20,885 --> 00:24:24,390 of like, right now, a vast majority of games are 478 00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:25,200 [INAUDIBLE]. 479 00:24:28,110 --> 00:24:30,860 AUDIENCE: So think of the people behind chess games, 480 00:24:30,860 --> 00:24:35,290 why would that be [INAUDIBLE] against [INAUDIBLE]. 481 00:24:35,290 --> 00:24:38,153 AUDIENCE: Go being black is supposed 482 00:24:38,153 --> 00:24:40,210 to be a six point advantage. 483 00:24:42,774 --> 00:24:45,400 AUDIENCE: I wondered, does this game have 484 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,915 to be competitive in nature? 485 00:24:46,915 --> 00:24:48,880 PROFESSOR: Does it has to be competitive? 486 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,840 Can you make a cooperative game that-- 487 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,206 AUDIENCE: Think are competitive. 488 00:24:52,206 --> 00:24:58,776 We still don't know the rules for [INAUDIBLE] Ur 489 00:24:58,776 --> 00:25:00,370 is before senet. 490 00:25:00,370 --> 00:25:01,870 PROFESSOR: All we have is the board. 491 00:25:01,870 --> 00:25:04,040 AUDIENCE: Senet, I think, was solitaire, 492 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,029 in one version of it. 493 00:25:06,029 --> 00:25:07,112 PROFESSOR: No rules exist. 494 00:25:07,112 --> 00:25:14,790 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] I was wondering if the game happened 495 00:25:14,790 --> 00:25:20,020 to be two players [INAUDIBLE] 496 00:25:20,020 --> 00:25:24,070 PROFESSOR: Again, let's think, not necessarily Go 497 00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:27,690 and chess, but also things like athletics, sports, right? 498 00:25:27,690 --> 00:25:30,160 All these things that we associate with games, 499 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,200 rather than just a pure test of strength. 500 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:34,950 AUDIENCE: Sorry, but I thought each course 501 00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:38,280 it tends to be [INAUDIBLE] so that's sort of an abstraction. 502 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,660 But not necessarily [INAUDIBLE] 503 00:25:42,660 --> 00:25:45,130 PROFESSOR: I'm thinking, what's the oldest team 504 00:25:45,130 --> 00:25:47,476 game that we can think of. 505 00:25:47,476 --> 00:25:48,050 Hurling? 506 00:25:48,050 --> 00:25:55,330 AUDIENCE: The one [INAUDIBLE] balls, [INAUDIBLE] 507 00:25:55,330 --> 00:25:59,292 PROFESSOR: Is that what people associate that with basketball? 508 00:25:59,292 --> 00:26:01,250 AUDIENCE: I don't know, [INAUDIBLE] basketball, 509 00:26:01,250 --> 00:26:05,721 I just [INAUDIBLE] 510 00:26:05,721 --> 00:26:09,010 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 511 00:26:09,010 --> 00:26:11,680 PROFESSOR: Yeah, I think rolling on the ground-- 512 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,400 balls rolling on the ground are a little bit more common. 513 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,190 So I'm gonna get [INAUDIBLE] 514 00:26:16,190 --> 00:26:21,100 AUDIENCE: So I was gonna say, sort of based off [INAUDIBLE], 515 00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:23,730 it seems like it's helpful if it's 516 00:26:23,730 --> 00:26:25,390 the sort of game where you can build up 517 00:26:25,390 --> 00:26:30,200 a culture of competition around it. 518 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,867 It seems that seems to help keep things rolling. 519 00:26:32,867 --> 00:26:35,200 PROFESSOR: So it implies that there's some type of skill 520 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,616 that you can develop, and then you 521 00:26:36,616 --> 00:26:38,075 can compete against other people. 522 00:26:41,030 --> 00:26:48,870 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 523 00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:50,286 PROFESSOR: Let me get Laura first. 524 00:26:50,286 --> 00:26:53,686 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] look at any evaluation 525 00:26:53,686 --> 00:26:56,585 six and a half points. 526 00:26:56,585 --> 00:26:57,210 LAURA: So for-- 527 00:26:57,210 --> 00:26:58,510 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 528 00:26:58,510 --> 00:27:02,169 LAURA: According to what [INAUDIBLE] percent for white. 529 00:27:02,169 --> 00:27:04,950 But it said that, and this kind of makes sense, 530 00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:10,010 if you're like novice players, it's pretty much [INAUDIBLE]. 531 00:27:10,010 --> 00:27:11,616 It's much closer. 532 00:27:11,616 --> 00:27:12,740 Which makes a lot of sense. 533 00:27:12,740 --> 00:27:16,726 And it also means it does affect people 534 00:27:16,726 --> 00:27:20,709 in some way to like try to learn strategy, because [INAUDIBLE]. 535 00:27:23,549 --> 00:27:25,340 PROFESSOR: The more you know, the better it 536 00:27:25,340 --> 00:27:27,423 is for you when you start off as white, as opposed 537 00:27:27,423 --> 00:27:30,650 to it being just like a completely [INAUDIBLE] thing. 538 00:27:30,650 --> 00:27:34,320 AUDIENCE: For a lot of these, I think a cultural incentive 539 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:35,180 can help a lot. 540 00:27:35,180 --> 00:27:39,152 So for both these games, you were basically 541 00:27:39,152 --> 00:27:42,250 considered intelligent if you could play it well. 542 00:27:42,250 --> 00:27:46,424 And then for a lot of the sports, you were-- 543 00:27:46,424 --> 00:27:49,245 if you won the Olympics in ancient Greece, or something. 544 00:27:49,245 --> 00:27:50,522 That was a huge deal. 545 00:27:50,522 --> 00:27:52,646 [INAUDIBLE] cultural significance could really help 546 00:27:52,646 --> 00:27:54,520 you develop more of a-- 547 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,699 an entire population might try as opposed 548 00:27:58,699 --> 00:28:00,240 to a game that doesn't really matter. 549 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,690 PROFESSOR: So what I'm hearing is either 550 00:28:02,690 --> 00:28:05,004 you'll end a war by playing a game, that's 551 00:28:05,004 --> 00:28:07,420 one way to get somewhere, like real cultural significance. 552 00:28:07,420 --> 00:28:10,730 And a lot of athletic events, the Olympics 553 00:28:10,730 --> 00:28:13,480 are kind of about that sort of thing right. 554 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,143 Or you get a king to play that game. 555 00:28:16,143 --> 00:28:22,550 [INAUDIBLE] Which could work, definitely chess 556 00:28:22,550 --> 00:28:24,820 has had intellectual leaders. 557 00:28:24,820 --> 00:28:27,272 You know, artists for instance. 558 00:28:27,272 --> 00:28:30,630 I try to remember which authors were really, really into chess. 559 00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:33,590 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 560 00:28:33,590 --> 00:28:34,940 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 561 00:28:34,940 --> 00:28:37,610 I wouldn't be surprised if military leadership 562 00:28:37,610 --> 00:28:38,517 were into that. 563 00:28:38,517 --> 00:28:40,400 I'm actually thinking that maybe instead 564 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,080 of balance, what we're going to say 565 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,780 is that each side has a fighting chance. 566 00:28:46,780 --> 00:28:50,660 It's not so off balance that games often 567 00:28:50,660 --> 00:28:55,000 end in foregone conclusions. 568 00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:02,142 Even when black has a disadvantage in chess, 569 00:29:02,142 --> 00:29:03,100 black can do something. 570 00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:05,290 Like force a stalemate. 571 00:29:05,290 --> 00:29:08,320 And that gets that both player's agency 572 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:09,897 over the outcome of the game, even 573 00:29:09,897 --> 00:29:11,980 if what they're trying to accomplish is different. 574 00:29:11,980 --> 00:29:13,180 White is trying to accomplish victory, 575 00:29:13,180 --> 00:29:14,867 black is just trying to prevent it. 576 00:29:19,397 --> 00:29:21,522 AUDIENCE: In chess, actually, the most recent rules 577 00:29:21,522 --> 00:29:23,160 changed [INAUDIBLE] 2001. 578 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,700 PROFESSOR: 2001? 579 00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:26,636 That's a while ago. 580 00:29:26,636 --> 00:29:27,770 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 581 00:29:27,770 --> 00:29:30,550 PROFESSOR: Yeah, it's pretty stable. 582 00:29:30,550 --> 00:29:33,040 I will say that once you've been around that long, 583 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,445 you've had enough tweaks to your rules that things can work out. 584 00:29:36,445 --> 00:29:38,320 People are still changing the rules of things 585 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:39,900 like American football. 586 00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:41,374 That's-- 587 00:29:41,374 --> 00:29:43,690 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 588 00:29:43,690 --> 00:29:46,757 PROFESSOR: Sometimes those rules changes are for things like, 589 00:29:46,757 --> 00:29:48,340 well, we need to make it easier for us 590 00:29:48,340 --> 00:29:50,790 to insert ads into this game. 591 00:29:50,790 --> 00:29:54,430 And in football and such, it was just like that. 592 00:29:54,430 --> 00:30:00,490 So whether that makes it have longevity, I don't know. 593 00:30:00,490 --> 00:30:02,740 But it certainly [INAUDIBLE] the current health of it, 594 00:30:02,740 --> 00:30:07,420 it works with the current economics of times. 595 00:30:07,420 --> 00:30:09,640 I don't know if Go and chess ever did that, 596 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,930 but but maybe that's why the intellectual-- if you 597 00:30:13,930 --> 00:30:16,620 can go into the actual cultural value, 598 00:30:16,620 --> 00:30:19,470 you can go for commercial value. 599 00:30:19,470 --> 00:30:21,310 That works too, right? 600 00:30:24,970 --> 00:30:27,260 And you know the idea is, if you want 601 00:30:27,260 --> 00:30:29,287 to make a game that is really, really 602 00:30:29,287 --> 00:30:30,620 going to stand the test of time. 603 00:30:30,620 --> 00:30:35,320 Either as a full game, or a sport, or a board game, 604 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,915 card game. 605 00:30:37,915 --> 00:30:39,290 AUDIENCE: I guess now, it doesn't 606 00:30:39,290 --> 00:30:41,700 have to be simple learned, but it should also 607 00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:44,390 help make it simple to teach. 608 00:30:44,390 --> 00:30:46,492 Pass on the game really easily. 609 00:30:46,492 --> 00:30:49,910 PROFESSOR: You've got to get generations to pick it up 610 00:30:49,910 --> 00:30:50,710 over time. 611 00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:54,170 AUDIENCE: Especially where it's a board, then 612 00:30:54,170 --> 00:30:55,990 two different colored rocks. 613 00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:59,420 So even if you don't have manufactured board, 614 00:30:59,420 --> 00:31:00,790 you could teach someone. 615 00:31:00,790 --> 00:31:02,914 PROFESSOR: Like a [INAUDIBLE] or on the whiteboard. 616 00:31:02,914 --> 00:31:05,120 AUDIENCE: Or like, pennies and quarters. 617 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,830 PROFESSOR: Yeah, exactly. 618 00:31:06,830 --> 00:31:09,330 AUDIENCE: And I was going to say basically it also helps 619 00:31:09,330 --> 00:31:12,830 a lot where it's simple. 620 00:31:12,830 --> 00:31:15,066 Because obviously that means that 621 00:31:15,066 --> 00:31:21,776 you [INAUDIBLE], and that it adds extreme amounts of value, 622 00:31:21,776 --> 00:31:23,267 the ability to pass it on. 623 00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:29,920 PROFESSOR: In sports, you are sort of like it's-- 624 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,640 you are sort of constrained to essentially having 625 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,500 a large enough space, flat space, 626 00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:37,270 that you can play a game. 627 00:31:37,270 --> 00:31:39,060 But assuming that's something that's 628 00:31:39,060 --> 00:31:41,580 fairly easy to find around the world, 629 00:31:41,580 --> 00:31:46,160 maybe increasingly hard as time goes on. 630 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,910 Something like soccer is very easy, right? 631 00:31:47,910 --> 00:31:50,190 You know, it's like you don't really need a goal, 632 00:31:50,190 --> 00:31:54,120 you just need things to mark goalposts, and corners. 633 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,140 And then you can play. 634 00:31:55,140 --> 00:31:56,880 It's probably a little bit harder 635 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,850 to do something like baseball, where not only 636 00:31:59,850 --> 00:32:04,560 do you need to be able to mark out the playing space, 637 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,280 but you've also got to have all the right-- 638 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,040 a stick and thing that you can throw without hurting anybody. 639 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,070 And theoretically, you could play baseball 640 00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:16,350 with a rock and a stick, but you know, 641 00:32:16,350 --> 00:32:18,485 that game's probably not going to catch on. 642 00:32:21,010 --> 00:32:23,779 Maybe it does. 643 00:32:23,779 --> 00:32:32,478 AUDIENCE: Building off of [INAUDIBLE] old objects 644 00:32:32,478 --> 00:32:36,832 and simple the game [INAUDIBLE] 645 00:32:36,832 --> 00:32:38,290 PROFESSOR: It is amazing how that's 646 00:32:38,290 --> 00:32:41,850 worked with chess, because chess has so many different pieces. 647 00:32:41,850 --> 00:32:45,460 But you know, you've seen boards being 648 00:32:45,460 --> 00:32:50,080 made by people who were basically hermits, 649 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,920 handcrafted stuff. 650 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,180 And pieces that just like made out of like-- 651 00:32:58,180 --> 00:33:03,580 people who were like survivors of a plane crash [INAUDIBLE] 652 00:33:03,580 --> 00:33:06,330 waiting to be rescued, and things like that. 653 00:33:06,330 --> 00:33:11,090 You can actually reproduce the border pretty easily. 654 00:33:11,090 --> 00:33:13,790 So it can just use pieces to be able to reproduce that. 655 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,180 I wonder at what point complex becomes too complex. 656 00:33:25,180 --> 00:33:30,340 Because if chess is just on the right side of just 657 00:33:30,340 --> 00:33:33,327 easy enough to reproduce, I can't imagine 658 00:33:33,327 --> 00:33:35,410 it gets much harder, much more complex than chess, 659 00:33:35,410 --> 00:33:40,748 to get to the point where we just can't reproduce anymore. 660 00:33:40,748 --> 00:33:44,010 AUDIENCE: Mahjong or shogi. 661 00:33:44,010 --> 00:33:45,330 PROFESSOR: Oh, mahjong pieces. 662 00:33:45,330 --> 00:33:46,510 Oh, good Lord. 663 00:33:46,510 --> 00:33:49,396 AUDIENCE: There's something about them that's going on. 664 00:33:49,396 --> 00:33:50,520 Chess piece doesn't quite-- 665 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:51,520 [INAUDIBLE] 666 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:57,410 AUDIENCE: Chess is kind of nice [INAUDIBLE] 667 00:33:57,410 --> 00:33:58,846 PROFESSOR: This is sort of like-- 668 00:33:58,846 --> 00:34:03,042 AUDIENCE: There's like an accepted aesthetic for it, 669 00:34:03,042 --> 00:34:05,914 but you could play it with cut out pieces of paper 670 00:34:05,914 --> 00:34:06,830 into different shapes. 671 00:34:06,830 --> 00:34:09,060 PROFESSOR: Right. 672 00:34:09,060 --> 00:34:12,000 Or you just draw the icons on it. 673 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,590 Or you can do the Lord of the Rings 674 00:34:13,590 --> 00:34:16,380 chess set for instance, where instead of a king, 675 00:34:16,380 --> 00:34:21,409 you've got Gandalf, or something like that. 676 00:34:21,409 --> 00:34:25,520 AUDIENCE: Another game as an example is mancala. 677 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,804 [INAUDIBLE] century. 678 00:34:29,804 --> 00:34:33,300 Another one that you can play with rocks. 679 00:34:33,300 --> 00:34:35,400 AUDIENCE: Mancala's a great one. 680 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,255 I think I [INAUDIBLE] lot about mechanics, 681 00:34:37,255 --> 00:34:40,474 but I wonder if it's a cultural or symbolic ritualistic that 682 00:34:40,474 --> 00:34:41,820 is also required? 683 00:34:41,820 --> 00:34:44,120 So like mancala, you've got cultural [INAUDIBLE], 684 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,800 or so it seems. 685 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,405 I learned how to play it in Bible study school as a kid. 686 00:34:50,405 --> 00:34:53,371 I forget exactly what the message was, but it was 687 00:34:53,371 --> 00:34:53,870 [INAUDIBLE] 688 00:34:53,870 --> 00:34:58,920 [LAUGHTER] 689 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,800 PROFESSOR: Something seems to [INAUDIBLE] 690 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,043 AUDIENCE: It's that [INAUDIBLE] cultural stuff that 691 00:35:08,043 --> 00:35:10,880 is built into religion there. 692 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,770 I mean, chess kind of has war. 693 00:35:13,770 --> 00:35:15,440 We really saw that in the '70s. 694 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,429 But what is go got-- what does this say? 695 00:35:20,429 --> 00:35:21,220 [INAUDIBLE] Taoism? 696 00:35:21,220 --> 00:35:24,530 PROFESSOR: Yeah it's this sort of Taoist monk's kind of thing. 697 00:35:24,530 --> 00:35:27,650 So there's a certain amount of spirituality 698 00:35:27,650 --> 00:35:30,350 that's associated with Go. 699 00:35:30,350 --> 00:35:32,060 There's a lot more spiritual writing 700 00:35:32,060 --> 00:35:36,130 that I've seen on Go than on say, military strategy writing. 701 00:35:36,130 --> 00:35:41,000 Whereas chess, is very much a military strategy thing. 702 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,680 AUDIENCE: The Egyptian game of senet. 703 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,437 You put the board into the Pharaoh's tomb for the Pharaoh 704 00:35:48,437 --> 00:35:52,591 to play after going into the afterlife. 705 00:35:52,591 --> 00:35:53,590 It's not played anymore. 706 00:35:53,590 --> 00:35:55,720 PROFESSOR: How do you know? 707 00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:58,345 Maybe they are still playing it. 708 00:35:58,345 --> 00:36:02,220 AUDIENCE: But there's no current cultural significance. 709 00:36:02,220 --> 00:36:04,470 At one point, it stopped having cultural significance, 710 00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:06,614 so it stopped being played. 711 00:36:06,614 --> 00:36:07,280 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 712 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,670 I mean, that's a game that people 713 00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:13,000 have theorized is actually about a journey into the afterlife. 714 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,630 So it has cultural resonance for a society 715 00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:20,140 that thinks very heavily about what happens after I die, 716 00:36:20,140 --> 00:36:21,490 right. 717 00:36:21,490 --> 00:36:25,480 And chess makes sense for a society 718 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:30,730 that's either constantly in battle, or offered in battle. 719 00:36:30,730 --> 00:36:33,760 And there was a resurgence in the '60's and '70's 720 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,479 here in the US. 721 00:36:35,479 --> 00:36:37,866 AUDIENCE: Probably had to do with Bobby Fischer. 722 00:36:37,866 --> 00:36:38,740 PROFESSOR: Also that. 723 00:36:38,740 --> 00:36:39,480 Also that. 724 00:36:42,177 --> 00:36:43,930 Celebrities, again-- it's nice to have 725 00:36:43,930 --> 00:36:45,401 a king play your game game. 726 00:36:48,190 --> 00:36:48,690 All right. 727 00:36:48,690 --> 00:36:51,690 So a couple of things just to think about, 728 00:36:51,690 --> 00:36:56,490 we've been talking in class a lot about [INAUDIBLE] games. 729 00:36:56,490 --> 00:36:58,137 And you know, especially the discussion 730 00:36:58,137 --> 00:36:59,220 about the Parker Brothers. 731 00:36:59,220 --> 00:37:02,364 And what it will take to be able to make 732 00:37:02,364 --> 00:37:03,530 a game that's going to sell. 733 00:37:03,530 --> 00:37:05,700 The last time, we had a guest in here 734 00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:09,480 to talk about Kickstarter, or Patreon, and Crowdfunding. 735 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,280 How to put a game in a box and ship it to people. 736 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,440 But then also, the other direction 737 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,490 of what if you just try to make a bigger 738 00:37:17,490 --> 00:37:20,100 set of rules that anybody can-- 739 00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:24,420 with a ball and a field, or a chunk of wood 740 00:37:24,420 --> 00:37:25,590 that had a good curve. 741 00:37:25,590 --> 00:37:28,770 A bunch of different colored stones, or holes in the ground 742 00:37:28,770 --> 00:37:29,920 could reproduce. 743 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:35,360 And what's the design process around designing 744 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,510 those kind of games? 745 00:37:36,510 --> 00:37:41,130 It might be that's a perfectly legitimate application of game 746 00:37:41,130 --> 00:37:42,570 design. 747 00:37:42,570 --> 00:37:46,530 And so you might want to think about that. 748 00:37:46,530 --> 00:37:54,055 And now that everybody's here, let's hear about your games. 749 00:37:54,055 --> 00:38:00,060 Who needs to use the projector today for the pictures? 750 00:38:00,060 --> 00:38:04,870 You don't have to, we can turn it off. 751 00:38:04,870 --> 00:38:05,660 No? 752 00:38:05,660 --> 00:38:06,160 OK. 753 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:06,660 All right. 754 00:38:06,660 --> 00:38:08,830 [INAUDIBLE] shut the projector off. 755 00:38:08,830 --> 00:38:14,420 And can the ship racing team come up here? 756 00:38:14,420 --> 00:38:17,099 And we're going to give you feedback on your pitch. 757 00:38:17,099 --> 00:38:18,640 We're also going to give you feedback 758 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,967 on ideas about tips on the game that you're pitching. 759 00:38:28,165 --> 00:38:32,950 So imagine that Rick and I are the decision 760 00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:34,780 makers of the publisher that you're 761 00:38:34,780 --> 00:38:37,230 trying to get money from. 762 00:38:37,230 --> 00:38:39,250 You're trying to get seed money to be 763 00:38:39,250 --> 00:38:40,882 able to finish designing this game 764 00:38:40,882 --> 00:38:42,580 that you're currently designing. 765 00:38:42,580 --> 00:38:45,760 Maybe even employees in our company. 766 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,530 We're the heads of Hasbro. 767 00:38:47,530 --> 00:38:50,252 You're all designers in Hasbro. 768 00:38:50,252 --> 00:38:51,960 And you're going to say, this is the game 769 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,870 we all want to work on next. 770 00:38:53,870 --> 00:38:54,670 All right? 771 00:38:54,670 --> 00:38:57,420 Everybody else is kind of like your competition 772 00:38:57,420 --> 00:38:59,240 in the company. 773 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:01,660 Yes, but we're not really doing that. 774 00:39:01,660 --> 00:39:04,674 They all want something too. 775 00:39:04,674 --> 00:39:05,590 So give us that pitch. 776 00:39:11,710 --> 00:39:13,660 AUDIENCE: Let's do it. 777 00:39:13,660 --> 00:39:16,240 So as you know-- 778 00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:19,390 well first of all, thanks for having us. 779 00:39:19,390 --> 00:39:23,230 [INAUDIBLE] run through the team real quick. [? Fro, ?] Jory, 780 00:39:23,230 --> 00:39:23,980 Matt and Joan. 781 00:39:23,980 --> 00:39:27,076 And we are team ship racing. 782 00:39:27,076 --> 00:39:28,450 And so we're here to tell you why 783 00:39:28,450 --> 00:39:33,607 ship racing is going to be the number one game for Phil Rick 784 00:39:33,607 --> 00:39:34,107 Studios. 785 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:42,490 And as you know, games like Agricola and Tsuro 786 00:39:42,490 --> 00:39:48,580 are some of the top grossing games in recent history. 787 00:39:48,580 --> 00:39:51,970 So since we're passionate about Euro style games, 788 00:39:51,970 --> 00:39:54,280 and we love path building games, why 789 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,930 not do a mash-up of the two kinds of games? 790 00:39:57,930 --> 00:40:00,730 So that's for-- enter ship racing. 791 00:40:00,730 --> 00:40:03,600 A mash-up of Tsuro and Agricola. 792 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,000 So let me walk you through our vision for this game. 793 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:14,650 There's gonna be a common board that looks something like this. 794 00:40:14,650 --> 00:40:16,840 We're experimenting with [INAUDIBLE] size, 795 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:25,343 but right now, five by five is pretty fun in early prototypes. 796 00:40:25,343 --> 00:40:27,291 And this is the common. 797 00:40:30,220 --> 00:40:36,970 And then you have tiles that go on the spaces. 798 00:40:36,970 --> 00:40:42,760 And each tile-- here, I'll blow it up for you-- 799 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:48,766 has two nodes on each side. 800 00:40:48,766 --> 00:40:51,350 And there will be multiple permutations 801 00:40:51,350 --> 00:40:55,220 of paths like this one. 802 00:40:59,020 --> 00:41:00,990 You've got you guys that played Tsuro? 803 00:41:00,990 --> 00:41:01,740 Tsuro [INAUDIBLE]? 804 00:41:01,740 --> 00:41:10,940 A So these tiles will go together 805 00:41:10,940 --> 00:41:12,340 and will help navigate your ship. 806 00:41:17,660 --> 00:41:21,827 Your ship starts here, and you play this tile, 807 00:41:21,827 --> 00:41:23,020 and it ends up here. 808 00:41:23,020 --> 00:41:28,310 So the idea of the game is to start here. 809 00:41:28,310 --> 00:41:32,010 It's a race to the finish. 810 00:41:32,010 --> 00:41:34,401 First person that can go from the left side of the board 811 00:41:34,401 --> 00:41:36,880 to the right side of the board is the winner. 812 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,940 The cool part is that each player is gonna have-- 813 00:41:41,940 --> 00:41:44,667 this is gonna be a zoomed in view of the ship. 814 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,250 So this is where the worker placement Euro-style turn 815 00:41:51,250 --> 00:41:53,065 based game comes into play. 816 00:41:53,065 --> 00:41:55,649 So on your ship, it will be a simulation. 817 00:41:55,649 --> 00:41:57,940 You're going to get a really good understanding of what 818 00:41:57,940 --> 00:41:59,492 it's like to be a ship captain. 819 00:41:59,492 --> 00:42:04,320 You're going to be able to steer the ship, man the sails, 820 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:10,120 act as a navigation using the sun sky horizon as tools. 821 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:11,740 You can populate the crow's nest, 822 00:42:11,740 --> 00:42:14,929 you can be the cook, swab the deck, 823 00:42:14,929 --> 00:42:16,720 you could retreat to the captain's quarters 824 00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:20,230 to sit with [INAUDIBLE], fish off the side of the boat 825 00:42:20,230 --> 00:42:23,790 to get food for your crew. 826 00:42:23,790 --> 00:42:29,450 And we're not quite sure how, but these are the two elements 827 00:42:29,450 --> 00:42:34,220 of game-play that we want to mash together to really crush 828 00:42:34,220 --> 00:42:37,021 it for you guys next year. 829 00:42:37,021 --> 00:42:38,270 Is there anything I'm missing? 830 00:42:41,860 --> 00:42:43,680 AUDIENCE: Focus groups loved in tests. 831 00:42:45,964 --> 00:42:47,672 AUDIENCE: We have 100 pre-orders already. 832 00:42:51,710 --> 00:42:53,437 We'd love to hear your feedback. 833 00:42:57,175 --> 00:42:58,690 Let's see. 834 00:42:58,690 --> 00:43:01,270 PROFESSOR: I'm just going to give you feedback not playing 835 00:43:01,270 --> 00:43:08,526 the character that I [INAUDIBLE] I think that being ship captain 836 00:43:08,526 --> 00:43:10,792 is actually the center point of this. 837 00:43:10,792 --> 00:43:12,250 That's the whole [INAUDIBLE] trying 838 00:43:12,250 --> 00:43:15,070 to get people excited about. 839 00:43:15,070 --> 00:43:16,870 The actual game mechanic of everything, 840 00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:20,520 like putting the tiles together, intellectually and designerly 841 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,320 very interesting. 842 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:29,380 But it's not the same [INAUDIBLE] to get [INAUDIBLE] 843 00:43:29,380 --> 00:43:31,390 AUDIENCE: So there's like a hole in the market, 844 00:43:31,390 --> 00:43:33,400 you can't be a ship captain in any other game, 845 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,430 but we're going to give you a chance to. 846 00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:37,513 PROFESSOR: I think you don't even have to do that. 847 00:43:37,513 --> 00:43:41,560 I think to sell the fantasy, to sell the fantasy of this 848 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,140 is the age of sails, or something like that. 849 00:43:44,140 --> 00:43:48,710 You are a ship captain for the East India Company. 850 00:43:48,710 --> 00:43:51,340 Sort of create the fantasy that [INAUDIBLE]. 851 00:43:51,340 --> 00:43:56,210 Like Ticket to Ride, you are the globe, continent trotting, 852 00:43:56,210 --> 00:43:58,900 aristocrat, basically. 853 00:43:58,900 --> 00:44:01,268 Even though really the game is nothing about that. 854 00:44:01,268 --> 00:44:03,393 But that is the fantasy that they're trying to sell 855 00:44:03,393 --> 00:44:05,950 would be try to sell you the box. 856 00:44:05,950 --> 00:44:10,000 And of course, that is a focus you will need to better flesh 857 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:10,970 out-- 858 00:44:10,970 --> 00:44:14,364 what the decision that you're doing 859 00:44:14,364 --> 00:44:19,910 on the road, how that influences your progress on the map. 860 00:44:19,910 --> 00:44:22,250 Because it was unclear. 861 00:44:22,250 --> 00:44:25,710 It looked like the tile assembling thing, 862 00:44:25,710 --> 00:44:28,280 it's already game all by itself, like Tsuro. 863 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,059 You didn't make it very clear what drives what. 864 00:44:35,059 --> 00:44:37,350 Is it the map-building that drives the ship [INAUDIBLE] 865 00:44:37,350 --> 00:44:39,976 directions, or do the ship [INAUDIBLE] 866 00:44:39,976 --> 00:44:43,066 give you the ability to use on the map of [INAUDIBLE]. 867 00:44:43,066 --> 00:44:43,940 AUDIENCE: I hear you. 868 00:44:52,626 --> 00:44:56,220 AUDIENCE: I'm curious, what are the primary and secondary 869 00:44:56,220 --> 00:45:01,660 sources you're using for how ship captaining works. 870 00:45:01,660 --> 00:45:03,350 Why is it that this is-- 871 00:45:03,350 --> 00:45:04,930 how do you know that you're actually 872 00:45:04,930 --> 00:45:06,785 showing the experience that this is 873 00:45:06,785 --> 00:45:09,290 from the perspecive of this person? 874 00:45:09,290 --> 00:45:10,440 What's the date? 875 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,911 What's the range of dates? 876 00:45:13,911 --> 00:45:16,410 What's material you're using, the background material you're 877 00:45:16,410 --> 00:45:18,864 using to [INAUDIBLE] 878 00:45:18,864 --> 00:45:20,530 AUDIENCE: These are questions that we're 879 00:45:20,530 --> 00:45:23,040 asking ourselves, too. 880 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,600 [INAUDIBLE] making it explicit, because we really 881 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,542 need to dive into the research. 882 00:45:28,542 --> 00:45:31,000 We had a lot of game ideas and now we're just choosing this 883 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,350 and we're gonna run with it. 884 00:45:32,350 --> 00:45:35,270 So I think that's a good next step, thanks for helping us 885 00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:35,960 with that. 886 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:46,374 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] I think so. 887 00:45:46,374 --> 00:45:48,100 [INAUDIBLE] I think [INAUDIBLE] would 888 00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:55,427 be [INAUDIBLE] You could do a lot worse than just saying, 889 00:45:55,427 --> 00:45:56,260 that sounds awesome. 890 00:45:56,260 --> 00:46:02,390 [INAUDIBLE] British navy, you are 891 00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:04,662 one of the boats that has carried cargo 892 00:46:04,662 --> 00:46:08,770 at the same time [INAUDIBLE] It helps 893 00:46:08,770 --> 00:46:10,455 that every one of those boats has a map, 894 00:46:10,455 --> 00:46:13,840 has a cross section of the ship, [INAUDIBLE] 895 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,340 explains [INAUDIBLE] rest of the book is just use of terms. 896 00:46:17,340 --> 00:46:23,770 [INAUDIBLE] which symbol [INAUDIBLE] 897 00:46:23,770 --> 00:46:26,870 AUDIENCE: We're going to have to beef up our research. 898 00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:28,739 Never been on a sailboat, personally. 899 00:46:28,739 --> 00:46:30,780 The fantasy is something that people can relate-- 900 00:46:30,780 --> 00:46:33,540 [INAUDIBLE] guys. 901 00:46:33,540 --> 00:46:35,090 AUDIENCE: Great competitions. 902 00:46:35,090 --> 00:46:41,520 [SIDE CONVERSATION] 903 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,200 AUDIENCE: Thank you, thanks for your feedback. 904 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,630 [APPLAUSE] 905 00:46:47,630 --> 00:46:49,590 [SIDE CONVERSATION] 906 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,190 AUDIENCE: I want you to close your eyes for a second. 907 00:47:18,190 --> 00:47:19,960 Rick. 908 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,710 May 28, 1953. 909 00:47:23,710 --> 00:47:26,710 Your name is Sir Edmund Hillary and you are 910 00:47:26,710 --> 00:47:31,480 300 feet on top of the world. 911 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:32,080 Philip. 912 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:33,610 Same date. 913 00:47:33,610 --> 00:47:36,520 Your name is [INAUDIBLE]. 914 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,396 You have walked-- looked at this mountain your entire life, 915 00:47:39,396 --> 00:47:40,770 and wondered what was at the top. 916 00:47:40,770 --> 00:47:44,330 For the first time in the history of your people, 917 00:47:44,330 --> 00:47:49,390 you're going to actually [INAUDIBLE] by your face. 918 00:47:49,390 --> 00:47:52,000 You spent the last week climbing this thing. 919 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:53,530 You're finally at the top. 920 00:47:53,530 --> 00:47:55,685 You can open your eyes now. 921 00:47:55,685 --> 00:47:57,310 This is the experience that we're going 922 00:47:57,310 --> 00:47:59,740 to create with Tenzing Norgay. 923 00:47:59,740 --> 00:48:03,550 We want to show people what it was like for these two men that 924 00:48:03,550 --> 00:48:04,901 had no idea what was going on. 925 00:48:04,901 --> 00:48:06,400 There was a second attempt to climb, 926 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,920 the first two died in the attempt. 927 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:13,970 And after 12 days of climbing, they 928 00:48:13,970 --> 00:48:17,590 set up base camp in each spot, and reached the top. 929 00:48:17,590 --> 00:48:20,760 We're going to make a three-dimensional board 930 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,340 with 12 different base camps. 931 00:48:23,895 --> 00:48:26,020 I'm not gonna draw 12 base camps right now, that'll 932 00:48:26,020 --> 00:48:27,910 take a little bit. 933 00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:29,760 But each level essentially is a base camp. 934 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,862 If you've ever played the game Deception-- 935 00:48:31,862 --> 00:48:37,600 Descent, there is one kind of dungeon master type player. 936 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,710 Who, it's not like Dungeons and Dragons 937 00:48:39,710 --> 00:48:41,830 dungeon master, who creates an entire game. 938 00:48:41,830 --> 00:48:44,950 But he controls the monsters, controls tracks, how 939 00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:46,710 they track, stuff like that. 940 00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:50,220 We're gonna have a similar element with the environment. 941 00:48:50,220 --> 00:48:53,440 The environment challenge that you face various equipment 942 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,820 failures, and just the unplanned for things 943 00:48:57,820 --> 00:49:01,690 that happen during the climb, will be laid out 944 00:49:01,690 --> 00:49:04,270 by this environment master. 945 00:49:04,270 --> 00:49:07,030 It will be him against the two climbers 946 00:49:07,030 --> 00:49:09,580 on their way to the top. 947 00:49:09,580 --> 00:49:12,940 There will be different boundaries 948 00:49:12,940 --> 00:49:14,720 placed on you, based on the stuff 949 00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:17,840 that they had to fight for. 950 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,630 The last two base camps, you have to ascend in 24 hours. 951 00:49:21,630 --> 00:49:26,070 If you don't, you will die of oxygen asphyxiation. 952 00:49:26,070 --> 00:49:27,980 By the same logic, when these players 953 00:49:27,980 --> 00:49:30,470 pass the [INAUDIBLE] base camp, they 954 00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:33,040 will have called three turns. 955 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,980 We'll have to work on the details to reach the top. 956 00:49:35,980 --> 00:49:38,380 Things like this can make the experience realistic, 957 00:49:38,380 --> 00:49:42,010 make them feel like they're actually on the climb, 958 00:49:42,010 --> 00:49:43,790 on the mountain, trying to reach the top. 959 00:49:43,790 --> 00:49:47,420 Become the first person in the world to make it. 960 00:49:47,420 --> 00:49:51,910 Simple enough, if you make it to the top and get down alive, 961 00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:52,910 you win. 962 00:49:52,910 --> 00:49:54,710 You go down this street, you get knighted. 963 00:49:59,620 --> 00:50:02,110 Sounds good? 964 00:50:02,110 --> 00:50:04,970 That, my friends, that is [INAUDIBLE] 965 00:50:04,970 --> 00:50:08,600 PROFESSOR: Source material that you're looking at right now? 966 00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,290 AUDIENCE: I found a couple websites on just the climb. 967 00:50:12,290 --> 00:50:15,410 I also read a book two years ago, 968 00:50:15,410 --> 00:50:17,450 not necessarily about this climb, 969 00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:21,230 but on the 1996 Everest disaster. 970 00:50:21,230 --> 00:50:23,320 Which goes into a lot of detail on what it takes 971 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,430 for a pair to climb Everest. 972 00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:27,140 The challenges that people face, how they 973 00:50:27,140 --> 00:50:29,170 feel while they're climbing. 974 00:50:29,170 --> 00:50:31,130 And then, obviously, the worst case scenario 975 00:50:31,130 --> 00:50:33,825 of what can happen, when you get caught on base camp four 976 00:50:33,825 --> 00:50:36,375 in the middle of a blizzard and 15 people die. 977 00:50:44,558 --> 00:50:50,831 PROFESSOR: [INAUDIBLE] 978 00:50:50,831 --> 00:50:52,914 AUDIENCE: I planned on doing that the entire time, 979 00:50:52,914 --> 00:50:54,428 and then you said [INAUDIBLE] 980 00:50:54,428 --> 00:51:00,229 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 981 00:51:00,229 --> 00:51:02,020 PROFESSOR: If you have a strategy going in, 982 00:51:02,020 --> 00:51:04,460 always volunteer to go first. 983 00:51:04,460 --> 00:51:08,987 [INAUDIBLE], about your style of pitch, and more 984 00:51:08,987 --> 00:51:10,820 about the things that you said in the pitch. 985 00:51:10,820 --> 00:51:12,920 3-D board-- Really, really think about how 986 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,420 you're going to be handing that in on [INAUDIBLE]. 987 00:51:15,420 --> 00:51:17,492 Come in with a box that can actually fit this, 988 00:51:17,492 --> 00:51:19,325 give us instruction about how we're supposed 989 00:51:19,325 --> 00:51:21,100 to assemble this thing. 990 00:51:21,100 --> 00:51:23,450 Make sure that it will hold up to repeated assembly 991 00:51:23,450 --> 00:51:26,120 and disassembly. 992 00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:30,040 Possibly something that may not be essential for your game, 993 00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:36,787 something that [INAUDIBLE] which is a really interesting-- 994 00:51:36,787 --> 00:51:38,620 AUDIENCE: We met yesterday to talk about it, 995 00:51:38,620 --> 00:51:40,901 and I said I was thinking about a 3-D board, 996 00:51:40,901 --> 00:51:41,900 if that would look cool. 997 00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:44,220 And both Matt and Eddy both said they 998 00:51:44,220 --> 00:51:45,605 had the exact same thought. 999 00:51:45,605 --> 00:51:47,000 So I was like, OK. 1000 00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:48,050 Then we have to do it. 1001 00:51:48,050 --> 00:51:49,466 PROFESSOR: You might actually want 1002 00:51:49,466 --> 00:51:51,550 to incorporate the board in your box 1003 00:51:51,550 --> 00:51:54,560 somehow, so that the box becomes something that can actually 1004 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,680 be used to support the board. 1005 00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:02,992 [INAUDIBLE] it's up to you, really. 1006 00:52:02,992 --> 00:52:10,380 But do consider things like cost and time, [INAUDIBLE] 1007 00:52:10,380 --> 00:52:17,090 There is actually a genre of mountain climbing games that 1008 00:52:17,090 --> 00:52:22,460 looks like two [INAUDIBLE] with ropes [INAUDIBLE] straight from 1009 00:52:22,460 --> 00:52:26,810 [INAUDIBLE] attached to the-- 1010 00:52:26,810 --> 00:52:29,390 and they both attach to one weight. 1011 00:52:29,390 --> 00:52:32,250 The board itself, [INAUDIBLE] quarter 1012 00:52:32,250 --> 00:52:34,530 of the board are slightly inclined and are [INAUDIBLE] 1013 00:52:34,530 --> 00:52:36,310 there [INAUDIBLE]. 1014 00:52:36,310 --> 00:52:38,880 So the whole idea is get from point A to the top, 1015 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,510 to the other side, without falling into the hole. 1016 00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:44,330 And each player holds onto to a different rope. 1017 00:52:44,330 --> 00:52:45,270 [INAUDIBLE] 1018 00:52:48,750 --> 00:53:05,920 A couple of ideas [INAUDIBLE] 1019 00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:10,480 AUDIENCE: I think for me, if it is Tenzing Norgay, 1020 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,500 I would've wanted-- 1021 00:53:12,500 --> 00:53:15,000 hinted a little bit towards this character [INAUDIBLE] 1022 00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,770 AUDIENCE: Mainly, just put that out there 1023 00:53:16,770 --> 00:53:19,390 because it was the first name that came to mind. 1024 00:53:19,390 --> 00:53:20,650 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1025 00:53:20,650 --> 00:53:22,290 AUDIENCE: So be very clear if that's 1026 00:53:22,290 --> 00:53:22,920 what you're going to go for. 1027 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:24,836 There's actually some really interesting stuff 1028 00:53:24,836 --> 00:53:31,813 going on there, [INAUDIBLE] He's Tibetan, [INAUDIBLE]. 1029 00:53:35,214 --> 00:53:37,880 AUDIENCE: He's a local Sherpa, I have I have his Wikipedia page. 1030 00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:43,950 AUDIENCE: He's a local Sherpa, he's supporting a European-- 1031 00:53:43,950 --> 00:53:45,176 AUDIENCE: Nepalese. 1032 00:53:45,176 --> 00:53:48,720 AUDIENCE: To support European climber. 1033 00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:50,220 Europeans coming in with money, he's 1034 00:53:50,220 --> 00:53:53,546 coming in with knowledge of the area, how to survive, 1035 00:53:53,546 --> 00:53:55,470 and things like that. 1036 00:53:55,470 --> 00:53:59,940 A really rich amount of material to dive into, 1037 00:53:59,940 --> 00:54:04,320 that may or may not be useful to the game you want to make. 1038 00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,430 So just choose which-- if you're going to do that, 1039 00:54:06,430 --> 00:54:07,920 choose why you're doing that. 1040 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:14,060 So an alternative would be [INAUDIBLE] for the North 1041 00:54:14,060 --> 00:54:18,750 Pole, South Pole, [INAUDIBLE] 1042 00:54:18,750 --> 00:54:21,330 Basically, two European guys are going 1043 00:54:21,330 --> 00:54:25,010 to find the North Pole, or South Pole [INAUDIBLE]. 1044 00:54:25,010 --> 00:54:28,530 They are competitors trying to get there first. 1045 00:54:28,530 --> 00:54:31,650 Is your game to competitors trying to get there first? 1046 00:54:31,650 --> 00:54:33,121 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1047 00:54:33,121 --> 00:54:34,620 AUDIENCE: Two situations and the one 1048 00:54:34,620 --> 00:54:37,500 we decided we liked was two people working together 1049 00:54:37,500 --> 00:54:38,792 against one environment person. 1050 00:54:38,792 --> 00:54:39,625 AUDIENCE: Great, OK. 1051 00:54:39,625 --> 00:54:40,200 Cool. 1052 00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,110 I just wasn't quite sure about that, so that's really great. 1053 00:54:43,110 --> 00:54:46,775 That's really interesting. 1054 00:54:46,775 --> 00:54:49,550 PROFESSOR: I like the idea of playing up exactly 1055 00:54:49,550 --> 00:54:50,910 who these two people were. 1056 00:54:50,910 --> 00:54:58,580 Rather than two [INAUDIBLE] this is offset. 1057 00:54:58,580 --> 00:55:00,124 [INAUDIBLE] can buy things. 1058 00:55:00,124 --> 00:55:01,665 Maybe not in the middle the mountain. 1059 00:55:01,665 --> 00:55:03,232 [LAUGHTER] 1060 00:55:03,232 --> 00:55:05,190 AUDIENCE: Actually, that's a really good thing. 1061 00:55:05,190 --> 00:55:05,900 How much of this [INAUDIBLE]. 1062 00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:07,210 AUDIENCE: You can start the game off 1063 00:55:07,210 --> 00:55:08,501 at the base camp, or something. 1064 00:55:08,501 --> 00:55:10,980 And you'd start out with a certain amount of money. 1065 00:55:10,980 --> 00:55:13,316 And have to buy the various materials or something 1066 00:55:13,316 --> 00:55:14,120 like that. 1067 00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,600 AUDIENCE: There's a lot of stuff you can go in there. 1068 00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,377 The 24 hour limit for oxygen asphyxiation, really 1069 00:55:20,377 --> 00:55:21,460 interesting little detail. 1070 00:55:21,460 --> 00:55:24,315 So really think about the levels of abstraction you're using, 1071 00:55:24,315 --> 00:55:29,310 and how much you're abstracting away, how much [INAUDIBLE] Some 1072 00:55:29,310 --> 00:55:33,090 of this, if you're going to do this 24 hour limit, then that 1073 00:55:33,090 --> 00:55:35,589 might mean that you're focusing on the climb itself. 1074 00:55:35,589 --> 00:55:37,380 You're not worried about how you got there. 1075 00:55:37,380 --> 00:55:40,665 You're just setting the player up with all the materials 1076 00:55:40,665 --> 00:55:43,200 they need to do it. 1077 00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,290 Just be consistent throughout the game. 1078 00:55:45,290 --> 00:55:48,257 What level of abstraction are you looking at? 1079 00:55:50,762 --> 00:55:52,720 PROFESSOR: It's interesting that you brought up 1080 00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:55,690 [INAUDIBLE] because that implies not only 1081 00:55:55,690 --> 00:55:58,780 do you have to get to the top, you have to [INAUDIBLE] down. 1082 00:55:58,780 --> 00:56:02,428 And possibly getting up to the top isn't the end of the game. 1083 00:56:06,740 --> 00:56:09,637 And that again, comes back to [INAUDIBLE]. 1084 00:56:09,637 --> 00:56:11,470 One of the things that he does, is make sure 1085 00:56:11,470 --> 00:56:13,616 that this thing gets published. 1086 00:56:13,616 --> 00:56:30,490 [INAUDIBLE] The environment does not necessarily need to be 1087 00:56:30,490 --> 00:56:35,700 [INAUDIBLE] it could be another player. 1088 00:56:35,700 --> 00:56:38,526 You could make it a two player versus one player game. 1089 00:56:38,526 --> 00:56:41,050 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1090 00:56:41,050 --> 00:56:45,000 AUDIENCE: So when you said when you're positioning as a GM, 1091 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,790 the way we understand it, is that the GM's 1092 00:56:47,790 --> 00:56:50,410 really disinterested. 1093 00:56:50,410 --> 00:56:51,555 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1094 00:56:51,555 --> 00:56:53,930 AUDIENCE: I compared it to the set where you're playing-- 1095 00:56:53,930 --> 00:56:57,394 you're actually playing against the other person. 1096 00:56:57,394 --> 00:56:59,560 PROFESSOR: There's more than rules enforcement then. 1097 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,550 Then you're actually working against-- 1098 00:57:02,550 --> 00:57:05,940 AUDIENCE: There's a set of rules that everyone has to learn. 1099 00:57:05,940 --> 00:57:08,232 Specified not like Dungeons and Dragons dungeon master, 1100 00:57:08,232 --> 00:57:09,773 but where you're actually competitive 1101 00:57:09,773 --> 00:57:11,070 against the other player. 1102 00:57:11,070 --> 00:57:13,065 And there's a set of rules that you both have to work with. 1103 00:57:13,065 --> 00:57:14,281 PROFESSOR: You might as well call that Dungeons 1104 00:57:14,281 --> 00:57:15,263 and Mountains. 1105 00:57:18,670 --> 00:57:20,472 Thank you, thank you. 1106 00:57:20,472 --> 00:57:24,264 [APPLAUSE] 1107 00:57:24,264 --> 00:57:39,574 PROFESSOR: [INAUDIBLE] of which [INAUDIBLE] 1108 00:57:39,574 --> 00:57:43,067 [SIDE CONVERSATION] 1109 00:57:54,651 --> 00:57:55,400 AUDIENCE: I'm Liz. 1110 00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:56,233 AUDIENCE: I'm Laura. 1111 00:57:56,233 --> 00:57:57,110 AUDIENCE: Michael 1112 00:57:57,110 --> 00:58:00,900 AUDIENCE: And we're pitching [INAUDIBLE] game [INAUDIBLE]. 1113 00:58:00,900 --> 00:58:05,180 So a very relevant problem in modern day, 1114 00:58:05,180 --> 00:58:08,720 is the lack of women in the tech industries. 1115 00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,530 And how they're being generally harassed, 1116 00:58:11,530 --> 00:58:14,090 and gaming culture, and things that 1117 00:58:14,090 --> 00:58:16,910 are heavy tech-wise in general. 1118 00:58:16,910 --> 00:58:22,040 And we're trying to address that by exploring that boss employee 1119 00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:24,650 dynamic that women in the tech industry 1120 00:58:24,650 --> 00:58:26,540 currently have to deal with. 1121 00:58:26,540 --> 00:58:30,050 And very much the reason why women 1122 00:58:30,050 --> 00:58:31,810 are averting the tech industry every day, 1123 00:58:31,810 --> 00:58:34,860 'cause it's just easier to do other things. 1124 00:58:34,860 --> 00:58:36,710 So we're planning to do a live action role 1125 00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:40,640 play to explore this relationship, where 1126 00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,320 one player plays as the boss. 1127 00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:47,180 And he has the ability to create a new rule every minute, 1128 00:58:47,180 --> 00:58:48,650 or something like that. 1129 00:58:48,650 --> 00:58:50,330 And one player plays as the employee, 1130 00:58:50,330 --> 00:58:54,830 and she has to follow all the rules that the boss says. 1131 00:58:54,830 --> 00:59:00,770 And maybe her ability to be productive 1132 00:59:00,770 --> 00:59:04,370 is affected by certain phrases that the boss says. 1133 00:59:04,370 --> 00:59:08,380 Which he's required to say, but he isn't sure-- 1134 00:59:08,380 --> 00:59:12,630 he doesn't know that they might affect the person in this way. 1135 00:59:12,630 --> 00:59:15,620 They are just on the character sheet. 1136 00:59:15,620 --> 00:59:20,630 It would probably be a minimally re-playable game, 1137 00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:23,060 unless we introduce new characters and new scenarios. 1138 00:59:23,060 --> 00:59:30,710 And they'd be modular conditions on rules, introductions, 1139 00:59:30,710 --> 00:59:33,020 and the way they respond. 1140 00:59:33,020 --> 00:59:36,800 And both players will have goals that require the other player 1141 00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,112 to cooperate in order to succeed. 1142 00:59:39,112 --> 00:59:41,570 So they're going to have to learn to work together in order 1143 00:59:41,570 --> 00:59:44,499 to accomplish their goals. 1144 00:59:44,499 --> 00:59:46,040 So they have to learn to communicate, 1145 00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:52,510 despite the rules making it hard for them to do so. 1146 00:59:52,510 --> 00:59:54,760 AUDIENCE: In terms of search source material, 1147 00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,370 there's currently a wealth of information 1148 00:59:57,370 --> 00:59:59,230 on the internet about people bringing up 1149 00:59:59,230 --> 01:00:01,806 this issue in the tech community. 1150 01:00:01,806 --> 01:00:03,430 It's also something that's particularly 1151 01:00:03,430 --> 01:00:07,630 relevant on MIT'S campus, just because so many people here 1152 01:00:07,630 --> 01:00:09,940 will go into tech. 1153 01:00:09,940 --> 01:00:12,940 And so for source material, we're looking at a lot of-- 1154 01:00:12,940 --> 01:00:15,520 there have been a lot of recent articles written 1155 01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:17,470 on the subject. 1156 01:00:17,470 --> 01:00:20,050 AUDIENCE: Also, I have a survey that I sent out 1157 01:00:20,050 --> 01:00:23,950 for another project that I did, that's basically 1158 01:00:23,950 --> 01:00:27,290 asking for women and the problems they 1159 01:00:27,290 --> 01:00:28,660 encounter every day at work. 1160 01:00:28,660 --> 01:00:30,505 And a lot of these are in the tech industry. 1161 01:00:30,505 --> 01:00:32,380 And even if they're not in the tech industry, 1162 01:00:32,380 --> 01:00:34,200 there's still boss-employee dynamics 1163 01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:38,590 that we can use to further explore that topic. 1164 01:00:38,590 --> 01:00:40,540 AUDIENCE: So if we have the time, 1165 01:00:40,540 --> 01:00:43,530 there's an alternative idea that we haven't had as much 1166 01:00:43,530 --> 01:00:45,450 of a chance to discuss. 1167 01:00:45,450 --> 01:00:49,450 It's a little less on the side of something 1168 01:00:49,450 --> 01:00:53,020 that's an educational tool that's minimally re-playable, 1169 01:00:53,020 --> 01:00:54,680 and you just play it once to try-- 1170 01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:56,280 end up cooperating. 1171 01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:00,690 And more for like, maybe toning down the message a little bit 1172 01:01:00,690 --> 01:01:03,800 for the sake of making it more of a game. 1173 01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:08,790 And the idea is similar, where the boss 1174 01:01:08,790 --> 01:01:12,550 is in charge of the rules, as far as the employee goes. 1175 01:01:12,550 --> 01:01:14,340 So that all of the rules that are 1176 01:01:14,340 --> 01:01:16,740 in play for a particular section, 1177 01:01:16,740 --> 01:01:21,270 are going to be given to the boss at the beginning, 1178 01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:23,610 or over the course of the game. 1179 01:01:23,610 --> 01:01:26,625 And the employee would be told only 1180 01:01:26,625 --> 01:01:29,520 whatever the boss tells them, and penalized 1181 01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:33,400 for whatever the boss decides to penalize them for. 1182 01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:38,190 And there would be some sort of inadequate system 1183 01:01:38,190 --> 01:01:46,970 for the employee to disagree. 1184 01:01:46,970 --> 01:01:51,150 And overall, goals might be less cooperative, and more directly 1185 01:01:51,150 --> 01:01:51,720 opposing. 1186 01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:53,940 Where, for example, the employee's goal 1187 01:01:53,940 --> 01:01:58,380 might be to get the boss fired without getting 1188 01:01:58,380 --> 01:02:00,540 fired themselves first. 1189 01:02:00,540 --> 01:02:02,820 And that's something that they might 1190 01:02:02,820 --> 01:02:05,370 do that would let them do that. 1191 01:02:05,370 --> 01:02:08,550 Like finding out things about the rules, 1192 01:02:08,550 --> 01:02:11,760 might take their focus off of being productive, 1193 01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,790 which would generally lead them to get fired. 1194 01:02:14,790 --> 01:02:18,870 Whereas the boss's job, boss's goal, 1195 01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:23,910 could be to end up with a golden parachute. 1196 01:02:23,910 --> 01:02:28,350 End up being profitable, end up exploiting the employee, 1197 01:02:28,350 --> 01:02:31,230 enough to live happily ever after on their own, 1198 01:02:31,230 --> 01:02:33,300 and quit themselves. 1199 01:02:33,300 --> 01:02:35,910 At a time where they have enough to just like, 1200 01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:37,065 coast by for the rest-- 1201 01:02:40,810 --> 01:02:45,250 If they get enough out of the employee 1202 01:02:45,250 --> 01:02:47,310 before having to either fire them, 1203 01:02:47,310 --> 01:02:51,120 or ending up in trouble themselves, 1204 01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:53,085 that would be the other side that would 1205 01:02:53,085 --> 01:02:54,342 be the success for the boss. 1206 01:03:01,650 --> 01:03:02,530 PROFESSOR: OK. 1207 01:03:02,530 --> 01:03:04,126 So is there anything else you want 1208 01:03:04,126 --> 01:03:10,492 to get in [INAUDIBLE] Couple of things. 1209 01:03:10,492 --> 01:03:17,790 It's [INAUDIBLE] nice to have the clarity of this is-- 1210 01:03:17,790 --> 01:03:20,900 if you can specify your audience [INAUDIBLE]. 1211 01:03:26,478 --> 01:03:28,386 You mention minimally re-playable. 1212 01:03:28,386 --> 01:03:32,730 I'm wondering whether there's some value in playing it twice 1213 01:03:32,730 --> 01:03:34,836 with inverted roles. 1214 01:03:34,836 --> 01:03:36,160 AUDIENCE: That was considered. 1215 01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,010 We meant that it's just-- 1216 01:03:39,010 --> 01:03:40,645 if you keep playing as the employee, 1217 01:03:40,645 --> 01:03:43,560 and you already know that you're being lied to. 1218 01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:46,780 And even worse, if the rules stay the same, 1219 01:03:46,780 --> 01:03:48,700 and you already know the rules, then that's 1220 01:03:48,700 --> 01:03:50,315 completely defeating the purpose. 1221 01:03:50,315 --> 01:03:51,690 AUDIENCE: I mean, you could still 1222 01:03:51,690 --> 01:03:56,290 play it to explore the relationship further, and maybe 1223 01:03:56,290 --> 01:03:58,130 see what else you could have done. 1224 01:03:58,130 --> 01:03:59,140 But fundamentally, 1225 01:03:59,140 --> 01:04:03,835 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1226 01:04:03,835 --> 01:04:06,400 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] because it's live action, 1227 01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,810 because you're two people working together, 1228 01:04:08,810 --> 01:04:10,180 talking about this stuff. 1229 01:04:10,180 --> 01:04:12,430 Even if the rules are the same every time you play it, 1230 01:04:12,430 --> 01:04:15,400 that other person is going to be different. 1231 01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:16,900 I don't worry minimal replayability. 1232 01:04:16,900 --> 01:04:18,960 It's very replayable. 1233 01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:22,425 PROFESSOR: And definitely reusable, among-- 1234 01:04:22,425 --> 01:04:24,298 in a training setting, absolutely. 1235 01:04:24,298 --> 01:04:27,714 [INAUDIBLE] reusable. 1236 01:04:27,714 --> 01:04:33,300 If you don't play it again, at least no matter what you do, 1237 01:04:33,300 --> 01:04:38,073 [INAUDIBLE] how do you talk with each other 1238 01:04:38,073 --> 01:04:39,462 after the game is over? 1239 01:04:39,462 --> 01:04:45,200 And [INAUDIBLE] because that sort of helps people 1240 01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:50,134 reflect on what they should have picked up 1241 01:04:50,134 --> 01:04:51,425 while they're playing the game. 1242 01:04:51,425 --> 01:04:55,707 [INAUDIBLE] thinking about how [INAUDIBLE] 1243 01:04:55,707 --> 01:04:57,290 AUDIENCE: Great thing for that, if you 1244 01:04:57,290 --> 01:05:00,140 can do that without requiring a facilitator, 1245 01:05:00,140 --> 01:05:02,090 you're already doing much better than a lot 1246 01:05:02,090 --> 01:05:04,001 of the games in this sector. 1247 01:05:04,001 --> 01:05:06,460 It gets your game a little bit more useful, a little more 1248 01:05:06,460 --> 01:05:10,340 used, if your players can debrief each other. 1249 01:05:12,642 --> 01:05:14,850 PROFESSOR: You describe specifically the relationship 1250 01:05:14,850 --> 01:05:16,550 between a boss and an employee. 1251 01:05:16,550 --> 01:05:19,170 And it seems like that-- 1252 01:05:21,980 --> 01:05:26,567 I guess you should be clear whether all of the tension 1253 01:05:26,567 --> 01:05:28,150 specifically between these two people, 1254 01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:30,850 or whether also there's any abstraction of the college 1255 01:05:30,850 --> 01:05:38,500 of [INAUDIBLE] Say in a stereotypical, male boss, 1256 01:05:38,500 --> 01:05:41,200 female employee situation, there's 1257 01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,810 a lot of culture supporting the male boss. 1258 01:05:43,810 --> 01:05:50,220 That's not there [INAUDIBLE] so how do you put them together? 1259 01:05:50,220 --> 01:05:53,950 The sort of touchy phrases thing reminds me a bit of Taboo. 1260 01:05:53,950 --> 01:06:00,820 Which may not necessarily be a [INAUDIBLE] 1261 01:06:00,820 --> 01:06:04,460 For research, micro-aggressions, I 1262 01:06:04,460 --> 01:06:07,020 think is one thing that comes up a lot. 1263 01:06:07,020 --> 01:06:11,410 [INAUDIBLE] you just [INAUDIBLE] get a lot of stuff. 1264 01:06:11,410 --> 01:06:17,761 Not just gender, but also ethnic discrimination, disability, 1265 01:06:17,761 --> 01:06:34,515 [INAUDIBLE] You can find a lot of material [INAUDIBLE] 1266 01:06:34,515 --> 01:06:35,820 actually. 1267 01:06:35,820 --> 01:06:36,702 Because-- 1268 01:06:36,702 --> 01:06:38,160 AUDIENCE: Just to make clear, those 1269 01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:41,940 were the kind of very two, very separate-- 1270 01:06:41,940 --> 01:06:44,950 AUDIENCE: For future-- for pitch-- don't pitch two ideas. 1271 01:06:44,950 --> 01:06:47,380 I had a hard time following the second one. 1272 01:06:47,380 --> 01:06:51,370 If you're going to pitch the second idea, a very simple two 1273 01:06:51,370 --> 01:06:52,410 line-- 1274 01:06:52,410 --> 01:06:55,880 and if we did this other way, this is how it would be. 1275 01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:57,329 Enough to get it [INAUDIBLE] 1276 01:06:57,329 --> 01:06:59,120 AUDIENCE: I mean, it obviously came up here 1277 01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:01,750 because we're not at the stage where we have one idea. 1278 01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:07,470 AUDIENCE: So we heard a great, clear idea 1279 01:07:07,470 --> 01:07:10,360 that's still not specific, but pretty general. 1280 01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:13,810 And then with this extra route, this alternate route, 1281 01:07:13,810 --> 01:07:17,020 it's really just a matter of knowing a two line 1282 01:07:17,020 --> 01:07:20,020 version of how is this different from the other, 1283 01:07:20,020 --> 01:07:22,450 without having to go into detail on it. 1284 01:07:22,450 --> 01:07:26,410 PROFESSOR: Describing it, I think, as a variant, 1285 01:07:26,410 --> 01:07:29,876 this is a very [INAUDIBLE] right now, 1286 01:07:29,876 --> 01:07:32,422 rather than here's a second idea. 1287 01:07:32,422 --> 01:07:33,630 This is just a general pitch. 1288 01:07:33,630 --> 01:07:34,485 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1289 01:07:34,485 --> 01:07:36,860 AUDIENCE: Talked about it, if you haven't talked about it 1290 01:07:36,860 --> 01:07:41,380 enough, we don't need hear it. 1291 01:07:41,380 --> 01:07:47,162 If you were trying to get money, [INAUDIBLE] 1292 01:07:47,162 --> 01:07:48,870 PROFESSOR: But since you did bring it up, 1293 01:07:48,870 --> 01:07:51,660 I do want to give my perspective from a design point of view. 1294 01:07:51,660 --> 01:07:56,530 I think that actual competitive game might-- 1295 01:07:56,530 --> 01:07:58,550 different goals is fine. 1296 01:07:58,550 --> 01:08:04,770 But it's sort of like, opposed goals [INAUDIBLE] 1297 01:08:04,770 --> 01:08:09,852 I think takes the game out of a situation that a lot of people 1298 01:08:09,852 --> 01:08:10,810 can see [INAUDIBLE] in. 1299 01:08:10,810 --> 01:08:12,450 But a lot of people don't actively 1300 01:08:12,450 --> 01:08:15,330 want to get [INAUDIBLE] or at least don't 1301 01:08:15,330 --> 01:08:17,279 see themselves that way. 1302 01:08:17,279 --> 01:08:23,490 So just to be able to make a game where people can easily 1303 01:08:23,490 --> 01:08:26,080 make connections to their real life, 1304 01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:29,306 the goal should be a little bit closer to non-competitive 1305 01:08:29,306 --> 01:08:32,124 even though it may not be a completely aligned goal. 1306 01:08:36,914 --> 01:08:38,340 Any questions for us? 1307 01:08:38,340 --> 01:08:40,550 [INAUDIBLE] 1308 01:08:40,550 --> 01:08:43,050 AUDIENCE: I had just another quick [INAUDIBLE] for research. 1309 01:08:43,050 --> 01:08:46,740 We did an equal pay game [INAUDIBLE] two years ago, 1310 01:08:46,740 --> 01:08:47,886 I think. 1311 01:08:47,886 --> 01:08:50,729 And there were some interesting things 1312 01:08:50,729 --> 01:08:53,880 that came up with like, talking about specific scenarios. 1313 01:08:53,880 --> 01:09:01,000 So how does the fact that women don't necessarily-- 1314 01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:03,464 at the time, it was thought people didn't have 1315 01:09:03,464 --> 01:09:06,246 the data to get a pay raise. 1316 01:09:06,246 --> 01:09:07,870 So maybe it was just a matter of, well, 1317 01:09:07,870 --> 01:09:08,470 they don't have the data. 1318 01:09:08,470 --> 01:09:11,095 So if we just give them the data, maybe it would help them. 1319 01:09:11,095 --> 01:09:13,890 It's not much more complex than that. 1320 01:09:13,890 --> 01:09:17,069 [INAUDIBLE] see what kind of scenarios are you going to do. 1321 01:09:17,069 --> 01:09:18,527 Are they going to be very specific, 1322 01:09:18,527 --> 01:09:20,880 like going to your employee to try and get something 1323 01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:21,970 that you need? 1324 01:09:21,970 --> 01:09:25,430 Or is it going to be what I think I heard, 1325 01:09:25,430 --> 01:09:28,380 and correct me if I'm wrong, an employee going to a boss 1326 01:09:28,380 --> 01:09:30,870 to try and just do the job they need to do. 1327 01:09:30,870 --> 01:09:33,620 And the boss [INAUDIBLE] can get difficult for them to do it. 1328 01:09:39,426 --> 01:09:40,800 PROFESSOR: There's a lot of stuff 1329 01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:43,140 about how the same adjective, feelings, you 1330 01:09:43,140 --> 01:09:45,470 use to describe a female professional 1331 01:09:45,470 --> 01:09:48,939 or a male professional, it can be positive in one sense 1332 01:09:48,939 --> 01:09:50,322 and negative in the other. 1333 01:09:50,322 --> 01:09:52,166 It's the same word, literally. 1334 01:09:52,166 --> 01:09:58,637 [INAUDIBLE] definitely [INAUDIBLE] 1335 01:09:58,637 --> 01:10:00,470 AUDIENCE: And really good seeing you already 1336 01:10:00,470 --> 01:10:04,210 did a survey of getting actual phrases that you can use, 1337 01:10:04,210 --> 01:10:06,050 and actual perspective [INAUDIBLE] 1338 01:10:06,050 --> 01:10:08,140 AUDIENCE: So I guess I have a question. 1339 01:10:08,140 --> 01:10:11,640 Which is, how would you recommend dealing with the fact 1340 01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,051 that the players might not be the genders that they're 1341 01:10:15,051 --> 01:10:15,550 playing? 1342 01:10:15,550 --> 01:10:18,200 PROFESSOR: That could be a very valuable learning experience. 1343 01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:19,080 AUDIENCE: No, I understand. 1344 01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,060 I mean, the fact that if it even-- if you just 1345 01:10:21,060 --> 01:10:22,590 said about the phrases. 1346 01:10:22,590 --> 01:10:28,540 If you're having a conversation, and that word comes up, 1347 01:10:28,540 --> 01:10:31,630 it just won't mean anything necessarily to someone. 1348 01:10:31,630 --> 01:10:33,370 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1349 01:10:33,370 --> 01:10:34,990 AUDIENCE: Game mechanic for that. 1350 01:10:34,990 --> 01:10:38,164 If it's known that that word is going 1351 01:10:38,164 --> 01:10:39,705 to have a positive or negative affect 1352 01:10:39,705 --> 01:10:43,640 to that particular gender, then you 1353 01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:46,780 make a mechanic around that. 1354 01:10:46,780 --> 01:10:49,465 Your mechanics should support these things. 1355 01:10:49,465 --> 01:10:52,440 There's times when you don't need a mechanic because players 1356 01:10:52,440 --> 01:10:53,630 will all understand. 1357 01:10:53,630 --> 01:10:55,350 But any game where you're talking 1358 01:10:55,350 --> 01:10:58,030 about these kinds of cultural things, the mechanics 1359 01:10:58,030 --> 01:11:01,826 kind of just help buttress the message. 1360 01:11:01,826 --> 01:11:03,450 The things you're trying to get across. 1361 01:11:03,450 --> 01:11:04,824 PROFESSOR: Yeah, all the research 1362 01:11:04,824 --> 01:11:07,470 implies [INAUDIBLE] game mechanics are just 1363 01:11:07,470 --> 01:11:09,216 making the system obvious. 1364 01:11:09,216 --> 01:11:11,650 [INAUDIBLE] 1365 01:11:11,650 --> 01:11:14,195 AUDIENCE: That stuff should just come out in debrief. 1366 01:11:14,195 --> 01:11:15,570 Especially if you have two people 1367 01:11:15,570 --> 01:11:18,642 with different genders and different experiences 1368 01:11:18,642 --> 01:11:22,610 [INAUDIBLE] 1369 01:11:22,610 --> 01:11:26,578 [APPLAUSE] 1370 01:11:26,578 --> 01:11:36,700 PROFESSOR: [INAUDIBLE] 1371 01:11:36,700 --> 01:11:40,280 [SIDE CONVERSATION] 1372 01:11:51,834 --> 01:11:53,750 AUDIENCE: We have a third group member, Damon, 1373 01:11:53,750 --> 01:11:54,625 who's not here today. 1374 01:12:03,190 --> 01:12:07,420 So our game mostly explores the dynamics 1375 01:12:07,420 --> 01:12:09,892 of the sort of the balance of power 1376 01:12:09,892 --> 01:12:12,100 that can occur when there's a bunch of-- when there's 1377 01:12:12,100 --> 01:12:15,520 three people who are sort of all fearful of the others there. 1378 01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:19,360 And how there's an unstable equilibrium there, 1379 01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:27,250 where they're trying to keep up with the other two 1380 01:12:27,250 --> 01:12:29,411 to make sure that no one gets far ahead of them. 1381 01:12:29,411 --> 01:12:30,910 But the game's dynamics will be such 1382 01:12:30,910 --> 01:12:35,450 that this is guaranteed to fail in the long run. 1383 01:12:35,450 --> 01:12:41,080 In such, one of the things that players will have to do 1384 01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:44,160 is try to realize when they have a large enough advantage 1385 01:12:44,160 --> 01:12:46,430 to strike, and it's really about finding 1386 01:12:46,430 --> 01:12:53,890 the moment of opportunity when they can make an attack that 1387 01:12:53,890 --> 01:12:56,470 will work out well. 1388 01:12:56,470 --> 01:12:59,770 They mostly explore some of the-- 1389 01:12:59,770 --> 01:13:06,340 it's intended to be sort of a strategy game. 1390 01:13:06,340 --> 01:13:10,450 But sort of lighter than some of the versions 1391 01:13:10,450 --> 01:13:12,818 that cover similar topics that can take several hours. 1392 01:13:17,270 --> 01:13:20,110 It's going to cover a lot of the historical trends 1393 01:13:20,110 --> 01:13:21,070 around the time. 1394 01:13:21,070 --> 01:13:24,700 So the conflict between populist reformers 1395 01:13:24,700 --> 01:13:29,110 and the conservatives, and the rise of the equestrian class, 1396 01:13:29,110 --> 01:13:35,750 and their importance as a power base to some of the leaders 1397 01:13:35,750 --> 01:13:36,550 there. 1398 01:13:36,550 --> 01:13:40,180 And also how the legions, the loyalties of legions 1399 01:13:40,180 --> 01:13:44,320 was shifting from the Senate to individuals. 1400 01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:46,780 Who are actually paying them, and giving them 1401 01:13:46,780 --> 01:13:48,466 the lands that they would retire to. 1402 01:13:56,850 --> 01:13:58,490 That's what this game covers. 1403 01:14:03,410 --> 01:14:05,710 PROFESSOR: Source material? 1404 01:14:05,710 --> 01:14:10,630 AUDIENCE: Source material is I took a class in Roman history, 1405 01:14:10,630 --> 01:14:14,710 and it's mostly just stuff that I remember from that. 1406 01:14:14,710 --> 01:14:16,780 I've looked at [INAUDIBLE] sources of lines 1407 01:14:16,780 --> 01:14:23,320 for detailed stuff online, like the number of details 1408 01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:26,170 of numbers of legions, and where they were stationed, 1409 01:14:26,170 --> 01:14:27,119 and that's about it. 1410 01:14:33,010 --> 01:14:36,820 AUDIENCE: So we remember the games about the Tribunal. 1411 01:14:36,820 --> 01:14:42,436 I don't remember what personal perspective it's from, 1412 01:14:42,436 --> 01:14:44,060 so the pitch should have that in there. 1413 01:14:44,060 --> 01:14:44,893 AUDIENCE: I'm sorry. 1414 01:14:53,546 --> 01:14:55,670 AUDIENCE: So you want to reiterate that [INAUDIBLE] 1415 01:14:55,670 --> 01:14:57,044 AUDIENCE: Yeah, I just completely 1416 01:14:57,044 --> 01:15:00,450 forgot to like describe exactly what the game was. 1417 01:15:00,450 --> 01:15:04,070 It's the [INAUDIBLE] members the First Triumvirate 1418 01:15:04,070 --> 01:15:06,680 and they're all sort of-- 1419 01:15:06,680 --> 01:15:09,770 Caesar, Pompey, and Crassus, and they're 1420 01:15:09,770 --> 01:15:14,270 sort of jockeying for influence. 1421 01:15:14,270 --> 01:15:16,850 And eventual plan to sort of of usurp the other team 1422 01:15:16,850 --> 01:15:18,605 and to become the sole leader of Rome. 1423 01:15:23,540 --> 01:15:27,520 PROFESSOR: For a pitch, you have to assume that the audience 1424 01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:28,760 doesn't know that. 1425 01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:30,930 The audience may have heard of Caesar, 1426 01:15:30,930 --> 01:15:35,380 and not realize that at the time that your game is [INAUDIBLE], 1427 01:15:35,380 --> 01:15:38,280 he's not in charge. 1428 01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:40,240 Because everyone assumes-- 1429 01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:42,135 Caesar means king, right? 1430 01:15:42,135 --> 01:15:49,029 [INAUDIBLE] who is Pompey, who is Crassus-- 1431 01:15:49,029 --> 01:15:49,820 especially Crassus. 1432 01:15:49,820 --> 01:15:51,700 A lot of people haven't heard of him. 1433 01:15:51,700 --> 01:15:56,570 [INAUDIBLE] 1434 01:15:56,570 --> 01:15:58,250 You talk a little about light strategy, 1435 01:15:58,250 --> 01:16:01,010 and I wonder if that means it's still working? 1436 01:16:01,010 --> 01:16:08,420 Or is it a little bit more of a political points type game? 1437 01:16:08,420 --> 01:16:10,940 Do you expect it is going to be like a victory point base 1438 01:16:10,940 --> 01:16:12,780 system? 1439 01:16:12,780 --> 01:16:19,140 Or is it going to be more about military [INAUDIBLE] 1440 01:16:19,140 --> 01:16:20,080 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. 1441 01:16:24,652 --> 01:16:26,610 It's not going to have a victory points system. 1442 01:16:26,610 --> 01:16:27,850 It's going to be sort of-- 1443 01:16:27,850 --> 01:16:32,310 the way you win, is by crushing the other two players there. 1444 01:16:32,310 --> 01:16:34,460 There are multiple paths that this can happen. 1445 01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:41,986 You can get enough legions to become personally loyal to you, 1446 01:16:41,986 --> 01:16:44,610 that you can just beat the other two people in the [INAUDIBLE]. 1447 01:16:44,610 --> 01:16:47,540 Or you can gain enough support from various groups 1448 01:16:47,540 --> 01:16:51,300 in the realm and that you really can just start to snowball. 1449 01:16:51,300 --> 01:16:54,210 And you can have a tremendously large force 1450 01:16:54,210 --> 01:16:58,290 that the other players can't deal with there. 1451 01:16:58,290 --> 01:17:07,500 And it's going to be a war game, but with sort of more-- 1452 01:17:11,390 --> 01:17:15,115 mostly what it is is action selection. 1453 01:17:15,115 --> 01:17:17,240 And that the players will have a choice [INAUDIBLE] 1454 01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:20,430 on their [INAUDIBLE] choice of actions that they can take. 1455 01:17:20,430 --> 01:17:28,500 The game will probably be such that the players will 1456 01:17:28,500 --> 01:17:32,310 go in order over about a 10 year period, 1457 01:17:32,310 --> 01:17:33,450 or maybe a 15 year period. 1458 01:17:33,450 --> 01:17:36,535 They'll have about four actions per year 1459 01:17:36,535 --> 01:17:41,710 [INAUDIBLE] That's the sense that, for instance, 1460 01:17:41,710 --> 01:17:43,350 if the players build new buildings, 1461 01:17:43,350 --> 01:17:45,365 or conquer new problems, it makes more options available 1462 01:17:45,365 --> 01:17:45,865 there. 1463 01:17:45,865 --> 01:17:47,820 Also the struggle, if you-- 1464 01:17:47,820 --> 01:17:49,805 depending on whether the optimize 1465 01:17:49,805 --> 01:17:52,050 the conservative to the popular are the populous 1466 01:17:52,050 --> 01:17:53,770 are sort of in power. 1467 01:17:53,770 --> 01:17:56,910 Have more power, or different actions are available also. 1468 01:17:56,910 --> 01:18:04,450 PROFESSOR: So I just had maybe three different envisions, 1469 01:18:04,450 --> 01:18:08,390 just from that last [INAUDIBLE] of what this game could be. 1470 01:18:08,390 --> 01:18:11,200 On one hand, you describe it as a Roman war game. 1471 01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:16,870 And I'm thinking units and pieces on a hex grid. 1472 01:18:20,199 --> 01:18:21,740 AUDIENCE: It's very much you go and-- 1473 01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:28,062 it's in what you take, sort of. 1474 01:18:28,062 --> 01:18:30,270 It's very much [INAUDIBLE] where the players are just 1475 01:18:30,270 --> 01:18:33,680 choosing if you want to go [INAUDIBLE] you just say, OK. 1476 01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:36,362 I'm going to go launch an invasion of Gaul here. 1477 01:18:36,362 --> 01:18:37,820 I'm going to take this [INAUDIBLE]. 1478 01:18:37,820 --> 01:18:40,010 You have to prepare for it. 1479 01:18:40,010 --> 01:18:43,557 You have to make sure that you have the position 1480 01:18:43,557 --> 01:18:45,140 that you would go to do this, that you 1481 01:18:45,140 --> 01:18:47,900 have the resources to raise the legions necessary there. 1482 01:18:47,900 --> 01:18:50,390 You also might want to [INAUDIBLE] 1483 01:18:50,390 --> 01:18:52,770 to call your veterans if you're successful. 1484 01:18:52,770 --> 01:18:54,670 And then, once you launch [INAUDIBLE], 1485 01:18:54,670 --> 01:18:56,540 there'd be a factor of luck to determine 1486 01:18:56,540 --> 01:18:59,930 how successful you are there. 1487 01:18:59,930 --> 01:19:04,350 And you would probably continue repeating the same few actions 1488 01:19:04,350 --> 01:19:07,380 to continue your invasion for several years. 1489 01:19:07,380 --> 01:19:09,895 PROFESSOR: And that gives me a completely different image 1490 01:19:09,895 --> 01:19:11,360 of what your game is. 1491 01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:18,920 Which is more of a collecting resources [INAUDIBLE] tokens. 1492 01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:24,260 That's the second image [INAUDIBLE] 1493 01:19:24,260 --> 01:19:25,790 And then you said action selection. 1494 01:19:25,790 --> 01:19:31,590 And I'm thinking that [INAUDIBLE] like a card game. 1495 01:19:31,590 --> 01:19:35,440 Almost like a game where these that I 1496 01:19:35,440 --> 01:19:36,580 could be doing right now. 1497 01:19:36,580 --> 01:19:45,890 Maybe [INAUDIBLE] if you get say, if you [INAUDIBLE]. 1498 01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:55,510 AUDIENCE: The actions will be normal in [INAUDIBLE] global 1499 01:19:55,510 --> 01:19:56,070 there. 1500 01:19:56,070 --> 01:20:03,440 So in the sense that if the populous are in power there, 1501 01:20:03,440 --> 01:20:07,920 there is a set of actions that you can take 1502 01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:09,097 is sort of different. 1503 01:20:09,097 --> 01:20:11,180 Because the political possibilities are different. 1504 01:20:11,180 --> 01:20:13,030 Because the political [INAUDIBLE] So like, 1505 01:20:13,030 --> 01:20:14,210 if the populous are in power, it's 1506 01:20:14,210 --> 01:20:16,543 much easier to get land for your veterans, for instance. 1507 01:20:18,260 --> 01:20:20,176 PROFESSOR: So you still have the same actions, 1508 01:20:20,176 --> 01:20:24,306 but how hard it is [INAUDIBLE] 1509 01:20:24,306 --> 01:20:26,680 AUDIENCE: Some of them might get grayed out or something. 1510 01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:29,160 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1511 01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:30,660 AUDIENCE: Specifically, what happens 1512 01:20:30,660 --> 01:20:33,020 is as the [INAUDIBLE] has mentioned, that the actions 1513 01:20:33,020 --> 01:20:34,736 will sort of flip over there. 1514 01:20:34,736 --> 01:20:36,860 Like instead of the populace being able to do this, 1515 01:20:36,860 --> 01:20:38,844 instead, you're able to get conservatives 1516 01:20:38,844 --> 01:20:39,760 to do this [INAUDIBLE] 1517 01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:42,164 PROFESSOR: So I think [INAUDIBLE] of what 1518 01:20:42,164 --> 01:20:43,330 your game's gonna look like. 1519 01:20:43,330 --> 01:20:46,720 But that's something you want to get across in the pitch. 1520 01:20:46,720 --> 01:20:49,760 [INAUDIBLE] board, you could use hand gestures, 1521 01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:51,930 like you just did. 1522 01:20:51,930 --> 01:20:53,710 Referencing other games. 1523 01:20:53,710 --> 01:20:57,560 Just so that when you're talking about the game, 1524 01:20:57,560 --> 01:20:59,980 you're trying to help me see it in my head. 1525 01:20:59,980 --> 01:21:09,766 [INAUDIBLE] 1526 01:21:09,766 --> 01:21:11,140 AUDIENCE: One of the last things. 1527 01:21:11,140 --> 01:21:13,500 So we're going to have three players. 1528 01:21:13,500 --> 01:21:17,490 Each be one member of the Triumvirate. 1529 01:21:17,490 --> 01:21:21,050 I imagine each of those historical people 1530 01:21:21,050 --> 01:21:24,770 had different perspectives of how they saw things. 1531 01:21:24,770 --> 01:21:26,309 Were they equal? 1532 01:21:26,309 --> 01:21:27,600 They had different backgrounds? 1533 01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:31,380 AUDIENCE: The game is going to be portraying them 1534 01:21:31,380 --> 01:21:38,490 as having equal views, the same goals, the same views, 1535 01:21:38,490 --> 01:21:40,730 the same perspectives, and everything. 1536 01:21:40,730 --> 01:21:42,120 But it treats them different. 1537 01:21:42,120 --> 01:21:44,160 They will have different starting resources, 1538 01:21:44,160 --> 01:21:46,410 and different advantages and disadvantages as the game 1539 01:21:46,410 --> 01:21:47,040 goes through. 1540 01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:51,330 So like Crassus will have more money, 1541 01:21:51,330 --> 01:21:54,480 and [INAUDIBLE] money, for instance. 1542 01:21:54,480 --> 01:22:00,280 I imagined that Pompey will start with a lot more influence 1543 01:22:00,280 --> 01:22:01,119 than the others. 1544 01:22:01,119 --> 01:22:03,202 AUDIENCE: Is there a historical or realistic basis 1545 01:22:03,202 --> 01:22:04,460 for any of that? 1546 01:22:04,460 --> 01:22:05,610 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1547 01:22:05,610 --> 01:22:09,030 Crassus is often called the richest man in history there. 1548 01:22:09,030 --> 01:22:13,470 He is known for just acquiring such just massive-- 1549 01:22:13,470 --> 01:22:16,900 he had more money than basically the Roman government. 1550 01:22:16,900 --> 01:22:19,760 AUDIENCE: So that's going to at least help him 1551 01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:23,190 with the players starting position. 1552 01:22:23,190 --> 01:22:27,430 Did that wealth-- is that wealth then 1553 01:22:27,430 --> 01:22:29,426 carried over to the kind of actions 1554 01:22:29,426 --> 01:22:31,670 that he's able to do historically? 1555 01:22:31,670 --> 01:22:33,710 Or was it really just setting up? 1556 01:22:33,710 --> 01:22:36,000 AUDIENCE: It's going to offer-- 1557 01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:39,330 I haven't said whether or not that will offer him 1558 01:22:39,330 --> 01:22:41,700 bonuses towards acquiring wealth, or whether or not he 1559 01:22:41,700 --> 01:22:44,130 will just have more wealth at the start of the game there. 1560 01:22:44,130 --> 01:22:46,600 AUDIENCE: From our point of view, for the assignment, 1561 01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:48,230 we're really interested in seeing 1562 01:22:48,230 --> 01:22:50,200 the personal perspectives. 1563 01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:55,700 So you could do the generic, they're each an equal person. 1564 01:22:55,700 --> 01:22:58,007 It'd be more interesting for us to see 1565 01:22:58,007 --> 01:23:01,102 be a reflection of the actual personage. 1566 01:23:01,102 --> 01:23:02,560 AUDIENCE: The differences, I think, 1567 01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:05,160 are really going to shape their strategy, 1568 01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:07,250 and how they start the play. 1569 01:23:07,250 --> 01:23:12,810 So is for instance, in Caesar will have sort of have a bonus 1570 01:23:12,810 --> 01:23:15,696 towards campaigning, or not necessarily 1571 01:23:15,696 --> 01:23:17,070 bonus towards military invasions, 1572 01:23:17,070 --> 01:23:19,910 but making his legions loyal to him. 1573 01:23:19,910 --> 01:23:21,840 His legions become loyal to him quicker. 1574 01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:25,700 I'm not sure which of these is sort of-- 1575 01:23:25,700 --> 01:23:27,540 and Pompey will sort of start out 1576 01:23:27,540 --> 01:23:30,150 with more powerful and prestigious than the others. 1577 01:23:30,150 --> 01:23:33,030 But during the first several years of the alliance 1578 01:23:33,030 --> 01:23:36,270 there, he was obsessed with his wife, Julia, 1579 01:23:36,270 --> 01:23:39,510 who was Caesar's daughter that he had married there. 1580 01:23:39,510 --> 01:23:46,140 And he was neglecting lots of his responsibilities because 1581 01:23:46,140 --> 01:23:47,040 of his wife there. 1582 01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:49,980 So he will probably have penalties, 1583 01:23:49,980 --> 01:23:52,372 he would miss every forth action, or something. 1584 01:23:52,372 --> 01:23:54,330 He starts off in a much more powerful position, 1585 01:23:54,330 --> 01:23:56,460 and he sort of has to use limited actions 1586 01:23:56,460 --> 01:24:00,130 to try to not fall behind in the earlier part of the game. 1587 01:24:00,130 --> 01:24:03,060 So [INAUDIBLE] these players sort of have the same goals, 1588 01:24:03,060 --> 01:24:05,802 but these small differences are going 1589 01:24:05,802 --> 01:24:07,760 to cause them to take very different strategies 1590 01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:08,629 oftentimes. 1591 01:24:08,629 --> 01:24:10,420 PROFESSOR: So I'm actually going to suggest 1592 01:24:10,420 --> 01:24:13,300 that the differences are what the game should be built on, 1593 01:24:13,300 --> 01:24:16,837 not the bedrock of similar [INAUDIBLE]. 1594 01:24:16,837 --> 01:24:18,420 It seems to me that you are describing 1595 01:24:18,420 --> 01:24:23,775 that there is an objective reality which all three of them 1596 01:24:23,775 --> 01:24:26,400 agree on and are just playing on this field 1597 01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:29,710 with their individual advantages. 1598 01:24:29,710 --> 01:24:36,860 But I'm going to suggest that you start from the differences. 1599 01:24:36,860 --> 01:24:39,780 Start from the fact that one of them's richer than everybody 1600 01:24:39,780 --> 01:24:43,040 else, one of them's more loved than everybody else, 1601 01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:49,410 and one of them just [INAUDIBLE] And then you can just-- 1602 01:24:49,410 --> 01:24:52,440 what if the game is all about those differences, 1603 01:24:52,440 --> 01:24:57,120 rather than everything else that was involved [INAUDIBLE]. 1604 01:24:57,120 --> 01:24:59,130 Because then we get a little bit closer 1605 01:24:59,130 --> 01:25:03,010 for how these three particular people see the world, rather 1606 01:25:03,010 --> 01:25:07,250 than [INAUDIBLE] 1607 01:25:07,250 --> 01:25:09,900 AUDIENCE: The thing is, I really like a lot of the differences, 1608 01:25:09,900 --> 01:25:16,810 the sort of [INAUDIBLE] and to have these differences, 1609 01:25:16,810 --> 01:25:21,030 [INAUDIBLE] I intend to have these bonuses that are really 1610 01:25:21,030 --> 01:25:22,832 not going to be-- 1611 01:25:22,832 --> 01:25:24,540 they're just going to be one [INAUDIBLE], 1612 01:25:24,540 --> 01:25:25,769 something fairly simple. 1613 01:25:25,769 --> 01:25:28,185 But will cause the players to be playing almost completely 1614 01:25:28,185 --> 01:25:28,851 different games. 1615 01:25:28,851 --> 01:25:30,660 Where Crassus is basically trying 1616 01:25:30,660 --> 01:25:33,930 to take actions that are just [INAUDIBLE] 1617 01:25:33,930 --> 01:25:42,390 is basically going to try to acquire lots of money, 1618 01:25:42,390 --> 01:25:45,170 and then use it to brute force his way through money. 1619 01:25:45,170 --> 01:25:48,640 Try to brute force his way to get the most efficient ways 1620 01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:52,320 to use this, or try to-- 1621 01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:54,540 PROFESSOR: Set it up to be [INAUDIBLE] it's 1622 01:25:54,540 --> 01:26:00,770 not just [INAUDIBLE] project. 1623 01:26:00,770 --> 01:26:04,400 It really should be all three players end up playing very 1624 01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:06,774 different games, [INAUDIBLE] 1625 01:26:06,774 --> 01:26:08,440 AUDIENCE: That's definitely [INAUDIBLE]. 1626 01:26:08,440 --> 01:26:09,655 Like Caesar's going to be-- 1627 01:26:12,180 --> 01:26:13,660 he has the potential, but he needs 1628 01:26:13,660 --> 01:26:16,999 to be able to get the resources so that he can start-- 1629 01:26:16,999 --> 01:26:18,290 that he can really [INAUDIBLE]. 1630 01:26:18,290 --> 01:26:20,750 Whereas like Pompey has this power 1631 01:26:20,750 --> 01:26:24,280 and is basically going to be trying to consolidate it. 1632 01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:26,620 And try to threaten the other team's growth, 1633 01:26:26,620 --> 01:26:30,020 and threatening the growth of the other two. 1634 01:26:33,485 --> 01:26:34,475 Thank you. 1635 01:26:34,475 --> 01:26:43,190 [APPLAUSE] 1636 01:26:43,190 --> 01:26:47,720 PROFESSOR: So that was probably as good a time 1637 01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:50,320 as any to take a short break. 1638 01:26:50,320 --> 01:26:54,410 We'll have about-- these games generally don't 1639 01:26:54,410 --> 01:26:57,650 take more than 45 minutes. 1640 01:26:57,650 --> 01:27:03,020 So these are related to the reading that of space control. 1641 01:27:03,020 --> 01:27:06,800 Not so many chase games, mostly control games. 1642 01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:08,330 And although, Ticket to Ride I guess 1643 01:27:08,330 --> 01:27:14,150 has some sort of set building in there as well. 1644 01:27:14,150 --> 01:27:15,460 Play through the game. 1645 01:27:15,460 --> 01:27:17,626 It seems like a lot of people didn't do the reading, 1646 01:27:17,626 --> 01:27:20,120 so I'm not so sure how much context they give you. 1647 01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:23,080 But I do still want you to. 1648 01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:25,970 End up having played a wide range of games 1649 01:27:25,970 --> 01:27:27,970 before the end of the semester. 1650 01:27:27,970 --> 01:27:33,346 And then at about 3:30 I guess, a little before 3:30, we'll 1651 01:27:33,346 --> 01:27:34,970 bring in the prototyping boxes, and you 1652 01:27:34,970 --> 01:27:37,230 can spend the rest of the class working in your teams. 1653 01:27:39,950 --> 01:27:42,160 AUDIENCE: Go over this again really quick? 1654 01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:43,910 AUDIENCE: So Panic Station is a little bit 1655 01:27:43,910 --> 01:27:46,820 of a-- it's got a lot of trader mechanic. 1656 01:27:46,820 --> 01:27:50,379 You are trying to survive in a space station, 1657 01:27:50,379 --> 01:27:51,170 but there's aliens. 1658 01:27:51,170 --> 01:27:52,711 And they're infecting you, and you're 1659 01:27:52,711 --> 01:27:55,189 going to infect the others too. 1660 01:27:55,189 --> 01:27:57,230 [INAUDIBLE] is another one of those path building 1661 01:27:57,230 --> 01:27:59,960 games that has area control, and other things like that. 1662 01:27:59,960 --> 01:28:05,000 French, medieval towns, [INAUDIBLE] 1663 01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:07,060 PROFESSOR: Through the Desert, it's 1664 01:28:07,060 --> 01:28:10,115 kind of like mapping paths. 1665 01:28:10,115 --> 01:28:13,280 AUDIENCE: Path building, mapping, 1666 01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:18,680 you're creating basically a supply chain line of camels 1667 01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:19,970 through the desert. 1668 01:28:19,970 --> 01:28:22,310 It's a [INAUDIBLE] game. 1669 01:28:22,310 --> 01:28:24,416 I've not played [? Purple. ?] 1670 01:28:24,416 --> 01:28:30,225 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1671 01:28:30,225 --> 01:28:31,850 PROFESSOR: And every one of these games 1672 01:28:31,850 --> 01:28:36,530 that we put up so far, these three games 1673 01:28:36,530 --> 01:28:39,440 are all about putting tiles down. 1674 01:28:39,440 --> 01:28:41,990 This one is more about putting-- 1675 01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:43,830 I was going to say putting dues down, 1676 01:28:43,830 --> 01:28:46,790 but really you're putting down camels. 1677 01:28:46,790 --> 01:28:48,007 They're really cute camels. 1678 01:28:48,007 --> 01:28:49,590 AUDIENCE: This is putting down trains, 1679 01:28:49,590 --> 01:28:52,560 but you're putting them down creating sets. 1680 01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:57,150 To create matching sets of train. 1681 01:28:57,150 --> 01:28:58,250 PROFESSOR: Cool. 1682 01:28:58,250 --> 01:28:59,860 All right.