1 00:00:00,090 --> 00:00:02,490 The following content is provided under a Creative 2 00:00:02,490 --> 00:00:04,030 Commons license. 3 00:00:04,030 --> 00:00:06,360 Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare 4 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:10,720 continue to offer high-quality educational resources for free. 5 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,320 To make a donation or view additional materials 6 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,280 from hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare 7 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,605 at ocw.mit.edu. 8 00:00:19,605 --> 00:00:21,600 PROFESSOR: So let's talk about the reading, 9 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,538 which was about randomness and player choice. 10 00:00:26,130 --> 00:00:28,520 Everyone has an opinion about randomness and luck, right? 11 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,490 It started off the reading about that kind of thing. 12 00:00:31,490 --> 00:00:33,120 So just to start things off, what 13 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,792 are your opinions about games with luck? 14 00:00:35,792 --> 00:00:36,500 Do you like them? 15 00:00:36,500 --> 00:00:38,100 Do you not like them? 16 00:00:38,100 --> 00:00:40,590 And what do you like about games that have a luck element? 17 00:00:40,590 --> 00:00:43,560 AUDIENCE: I personally love a mix of skill and luck. 18 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,209 So my favorite example would be poker. 19 00:00:48,209 --> 00:00:50,000 So you could pick up the game really quick, 20 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,200 and you could be a novice, and you could win if you get lucky, 21 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:55,770 and it makes you feel good. 22 00:00:55,770 --> 00:00:59,820 But in the long run, over a hundred thousand hands or more, 23 00:00:59,820 --> 00:01:01,320 it's the person with more skill that 24 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,470 will end up winning in the end. 25 00:01:03,470 --> 00:01:08,310 So I like that dynamic of being easily accessible, 26 00:01:08,310 --> 00:01:10,782 but also having the skill element. 27 00:01:10,782 --> 00:01:12,820 PROFESSOR: OK, so that accessibility curve, 28 00:01:12,820 --> 00:01:15,920 that little bit of difficulty curve going in there as well. 29 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:16,702 Yeah? 30 00:01:16,702 --> 00:01:21,300 AUDIENCE: I would say that a lack of predictability is good, 31 00:01:21,300 --> 00:01:25,450 and luck isn't, but but luck is necessary to achieve 32 00:01:25,450 --> 00:01:26,759 unpredictability sometimes. 33 00:01:26,759 --> 00:01:28,050 PROFESSOR: OK, how do you mean? 34 00:01:28,050 --> 00:01:32,610 AUDIENCE: So basically, you need luck 35 00:01:32,610 --> 00:01:35,970 that the game won't go the same way every time, not because you 36 00:01:35,970 --> 00:01:37,146 actually-- 37 00:01:37,146 --> 00:01:39,450 the randomness-- on portions, it has to be random, 38 00:01:39,450 --> 00:01:43,710 but that's the only way to make sure that different games take 39 00:01:43,710 --> 00:01:45,167 different paths. 40 00:01:45,167 --> 00:01:45,750 PROFESSOR: OK. 41 00:01:45,750 --> 00:01:47,160 Yeah? 42 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,664 AUDIENCE: I like the unknowability aspect of it. 43 00:01:51,664 --> 00:01:54,080 I agree with [? John ?] that I like a balance between luck 44 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:55,120 and skill. 45 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,000 And what I was thinking of was something like Catan, 46 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,140 where you have this whole plan that you're 47 00:02:00,140 --> 00:02:01,360 trying to work out-- 48 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,980 OK, I'm building my city, and all I need is an ore, 49 00:02:03,980 --> 00:02:07,050 and I just need a [INAUDIBLE], and then I can build my city 50 00:02:07,050 --> 00:02:08,440 and do all this stuff. 51 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,136 But you just have to wait for it and plan around, OK, what 52 00:02:12,136 --> 00:02:13,260 if I don't get what I need? 53 00:02:13,260 --> 00:02:14,480 Things like that. 54 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:15,440 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 55 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:15,940 Yeah. 56 00:02:15,940 --> 00:02:18,440 AUDIENCE: I also think this is incredibly subjective. 57 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:18,860 PROFESSOR: Absolutely. 58 00:02:18,860 --> 00:02:19,985 AUDIENCE: So [? John ?] mentioned 59 00:02:19,985 --> 00:02:21,110 that he really likes poker. 60 00:02:21,110 --> 00:02:22,370 He likes [INAUDIBLE]. 61 00:02:22,370 --> 00:02:25,810 Personally, I like games with a lot less luck than poker, 62 00:02:25,810 --> 00:02:30,050 but that still have a little bit. 63 00:02:30,050 --> 00:02:32,560 But then again, I know tons of people who are like, oh, 64 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,120 my favorite game is pokeno. 65 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,236 Sorry, which is all luck, essentially. 66 00:02:37,236 --> 00:02:39,860 And you feel like you're doing stuff, 67 00:02:39,860 --> 00:02:42,240 you do have decisions about which piece to move. 68 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,467 But in the end, it's essentially 90% luck. 69 00:02:45,467 --> 00:02:46,550 AUDIENCE: Could I comment? 70 00:02:46,550 --> 00:02:46,790 PROFESSOR: Please. 71 00:02:46,790 --> 00:02:48,185 AUDIENCE: Can I go on what you're saying, Ben? 72 00:02:48,185 --> 00:02:48,650 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 73 00:02:48,650 --> 00:02:51,220 AUDIENCE: Even if you take a classic, 100% skill-based game 74 00:02:51,220 --> 00:02:54,114 like chess, for instance, in a professional tournament 75 00:02:54,114 --> 00:02:55,280 setting, there's still luck. 76 00:02:59,995 --> 00:03:01,870 There's a luck element to who you're playing, 77 00:03:01,870 --> 00:03:03,328 or whether you get white and black, 78 00:03:03,328 --> 00:03:07,350 or whether they're having a good day or a bad day. 79 00:03:07,350 --> 00:03:09,041 I think there's always luck in games, 80 00:03:09,041 --> 00:03:10,377 even if it's 100% skill-based. 81 00:03:10,377 --> 00:03:12,710 PROFESSOR: Does anybody know how white's determined when 82 00:03:12,710 --> 00:03:15,040 you start a chess tournament? 83 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,660 AUDIENCE: Usually based on your rating. 84 00:03:17,660 --> 00:03:20,354 And they also, in a fair tournament, will play a match 85 00:03:20,354 --> 00:03:22,603 where each player plays three games of white and three 86 00:03:22,603 --> 00:03:23,234 games of black. 87 00:03:23,234 --> 00:03:23,900 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 88 00:03:23,900 --> 00:03:26,029 So they're trying to work as much 89 00:03:26,029 --> 00:03:27,320 of that luck out of the system. 90 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,278 But you're right-- there is some, a little bit. 91 00:03:29,278 --> 00:03:31,330 And there's reasons for doing that. 92 00:03:31,330 --> 00:03:33,516 AUDIENCE: I would say chess is-- 93 00:03:33,516 --> 00:03:36,960 I mean, chess [INAUDIBLE] is sort of more predictable 94 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:38,810 than other games [INAUDIBLE]. 95 00:03:38,810 --> 00:03:42,706 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] always going to be [INAUDIBLE]. 96 00:03:42,706 --> 00:03:46,380 AUDIENCE: Yeah, chess is more predictable. 97 00:03:51,128 --> 00:03:56,836 I mean, I don't think what I'm [INAUDIBLE] 98 00:03:56,836 --> 00:03:59,210 AUDIENCE: So it's like, for example, think of round robin 99 00:03:59,210 --> 00:04:03,320 tournament play, where the person you go up against 100 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,280 depends on, to a large extent, how 101 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:06,989 you've done in a tournament. 102 00:04:06,989 --> 00:04:08,530 But that person who you go up against 103 00:04:08,530 --> 00:04:10,860 is basically chosen from a pool of people 104 00:04:10,860 --> 00:04:12,810 who have scored pretty well. 105 00:04:12,810 --> 00:04:14,950 So there could be a grandmaster in that pool that 106 00:04:14,950 --> 00:04:17,821 gets selected, or there could be a weaker expert player. 107 00:04:17,821 --> 00:04:19,779 AUDIENCE: A lot it depends on what you consider 108 00:04:19,779 --> 00:04:20,980 part of the game, also. 109 00:04:20,980 --> 00:04:21,586 PROFESSOR: Yeah, exactly right. 110 00:04:21,586 --> 00:04:23,502 AUDIENCE: You could say the selection process. 111 00:04:23,502 --> 00:04:25,140 You could also say, oh, I got lucky 112 00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:28,797 that my opponent didn't sleep last night. 113 00:04:28,797 --> 00:04:30,380 Is that really part of the game, or is 114 00:04:30,380 --> 00:04:33,570 it just that your opponent was a weaker player on that day? 115 00:04:33,570 --> 00:04:35,320 PROFESSOR: You have some more, [? John? ?] 116 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,280 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] what I wanted to say 117 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:40,650 is, was that, back to the question, 118 00:04:40,650 --> 00:04:43,150 with [INAUDIBLE] in terms of games, 119 00:04:43,150 --> 00:04:49,060 I prefer games which have skill at certain game elements, 120 00:04:49,060 --> 00:04:53,054 but it's not so much that they don't have luck 121 00:04:53,054 --> 00:05:02,816 as you don't have to deal with the luck instantaneously. 122 00:05:02,816 --> 00:05:07,630 Like, for example, the board setup at the beginning Catan. 123 00:05:07,630 --> 00:05:14,213 Or when you have, say, a deck where the top three cards are 124 00:05:14,213 --> 00:05:16,065 the cards you're choosing out of, 125 00:05:16,065 --> 00:05:18,804 or something, where it's randomized. 126 00:05:18,804 --> 00:05:20,720 And so every time, it's going to be different, 127 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,700 which is the good part. 128 00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:27,400 And yeah, it might favor one person over another, 129 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,270 because of luck, which is that part. 130 00:05:29,270 --> 00:05:30,980 But on the other hand, you still have 131 00:05:30,980 --> 00:05:34,373 time to deal with it with your own strategy. 132 00:05:34,373 --> 00:05:37,300 PROFESSOR: I'd say that probably colors into that chess, too. 133 00:05:37,300 --> 00:05:39,440 The setup of the board is a lot like the framing 134 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,230 of a tournament, or the context the tournament is played in, 135 00:05:42,230 --> 00:05:44,754 the context of the players. 136 00:05:44,754 --> 00:05:46,683 AUDIENCE: So I would say that whether or not 137 00:05:46,683 --> 00:05:48,900 a game based on luck on chance-- 138 00:05:48,900 --> 00:05:52,710 it's also dependent on what my purpose for playing that game 139 00:05:52,710 --> 00:05:53,210 is. 140 00:05:53,210 --> 00:05:53,630 PROFESSOR: Absolutely. 141 00:05:53,630 --> 00:05:55,250 AUDIENCE: So I really like sometimes 142 00:05:55,250 --> 00:05:58,132 playing chance-based games, and I've gone home for break, 143 00:05:58,132 --> 00:05:59,465 and I'm going to see my brother. 144 00:05:59,465 --> 00:06:01,076 And I haven't talked to him, and I 145 00:06:01,076 --> 00:06:03,919 haven't been with him in months, so we can play games. 146 00:06:03,919 --> 00:06:05,210 It's not really about the game. 147 00:06:05,210 --> 00:06:07,265 The game is just to do something while we talk 148 00:06:07,265 --> 00:06:08,840 about what we've been up to. 149 00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:13,570 Whereas once I'm home for a really long time, 150 00:06:13,570 --> 00:06:14,880 we'll play a skill-based game. 151 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:16,276 And it's really all about the two 152 00:06:16,276 --> 00:06:19,292 of us competing at the game [INAUDIBLE]. 153 00:06:19,292 --> 00:06:21,390 So it's also not necessarily subjective 154 00:06:21,390 --> 00:06:24,330 by person, but by situation. 155 00:06:24,330 --> 00:06:25,870 PROFESSOR: Yeah, absolutely. 156 00:06:25,870 --> 00:06:26,370 Yeah? 157 00:06:33,814 --> 00:06:35,230 AUDIENCE: So in the game Dominion, 158 00:06:35,230 --> 00:06:38,252 there are basic [INAUDIBLE] cards all the time. 159 00:06:38,252 --> 00:06:40,460 And then there's a bunch of special sets of 10 cards, 160 00:06:40,460 --> 00:06:42,786 which [INAUDIBLE] game. 161 00:06:42,786 --> 00:06:46,350 The strategy [INAUDIBLE] the special 10 cards, 162 00:06:46,350 --> 00:06:49,120 and just buy-- and to do the optimal strategy on the stuff 163 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:55,740 that's in every game, often you can win 30% to 40% of the time 164 00:06:55,740 --> 00:06:58,810 against the best possible strategy with [INAUDIBLE], 165 00:06:58,810 --> 00:07:03,450 even if you're using another set of cards, which is why-- 166 00:07:03,450 --> 00:07:04,680 which shows that-- 167 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,120 But they're [INAUDIBLE], but at the same time, 168 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,285 the game has a lot of strategy involved, despite the fact 169 00:07:11,285 --> 00:07:12,964 that it comes down to luck. 170 00:07:12,964 --> 00:07:14,880 And so when people are like, oh, this strategy 171 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,380 is better than this strategy, because when 172 00:07:17,380 --> 00:07:21,542 we simulate 1,000 games, it wins 60%, 70% of the time. 173 00:07:21,542 --> 00:07:26,844 As opposed to actually playing the game and showing one game 174 00:07:26,844 --> 00:07:27,644 won. 175 00:07:27,644 --> 00:07:28,310 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 176 00:07:28,310 --> 00:07:30,420 Well, that's a huge thing, too, of how many times are you 177 00:07:30,420 --> 00:07:32,050 going to play this game, especially the games 178 00:07:32,050 --> 00:07:33,675 that you're making in your assignments? 179 00:07:33,675 --> 00:07:35,250 How often are these games played? 180 00:07:35,250 --> 00:07:37,000 Hopefully, you're testing as best you can, 181 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,370 as much as you can. 182 00:07:38,370 --> 00:07:40,578 But I don't think you're going to get 1,000 plays out 183 00:07:40,578 --> 00:07:41,370 of them, right? 184 00:07:41,370 --> 00:07:43,250 Unless you're going to throw it through a computer. 185 00:07:43,250 --> 00:07:44,000 You don't have to. 186 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,810 Please don't. 187 00:07:45,810 --> 00:07:49,147 Getting real people to play it is a huge component of it. 188 00:07:49,147 --> 00:07:50,730 Because there's something about luck-- 189 00:07:50,730 --> 00:07:54,060 I don't think we've talked about yet-- 190 00:07:54,060 --> 00:07:56,280 the ritual aspects and the performative aspects 191 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,490 of luck and chance. 192 00:07:58,490 --> 00:08:00,540 Can anybody think of a game where 193 00:08:00,540 --> 00:08:03,810 there's something very particular to how 194 00:08:03,810 --> 00:08:06,491 luck feels there? 195 00:08:06,491 --> 00:08:08,240 Maybe you can take luck out of the system, 196 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:09,448 but why you wouldn't want to? 197 00:08:14,610 --> 00:08:17,130 So I actually think about, in that kind of context-- 198 00:08:17,130 --> 00:08:18,940 but where you're talking about craps, 199 00:08:18,940 --> 00:08:20,440 you're talking about gambling games, 200 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,590 the rituals that go around gambling games-- 201 00:08:22,590 --> 00:08:24,790 blowing on dice, rolling dice. 202 00:08:24,790 --> 00:08:26,820 What's craps if you remove the dice 203 00:08:26,820 --> 00:08:28,860 and replace it with some other kind of-- 204 00:08:28,860 --> 00:08:32,490 technically, getting to the exact same probability system, 205 00:08:32,490 --> 00:08:33,940 but different materials? 206 00:08:33,940 --> 00:08:36,696 Is that going to be a different game or not? 207 00:08:36,696 --> 00:08:39,434 AUDIENCE: Could you replace it with a spinner [INAUDIBLE]? 208 00:08:39,434 --> 00:08:40,100 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 209 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:41,618 Is the probability curve the same? 210 00:08:41,618 --> 00:08:42,159 AUDIENCE: No. 211 00:08:42,159 --> 00:08:44,286 PROFESSOR: No, but you probably could. 212 00:08:44,286 --> 00:08:46,285 AUDIENCE: Yeah, you could probably break it down 213 00:08:46,285 --> 00:08:47,368 into [INAUDIBLE] the same. 214 00:08:47,368 --> 00:08:49,434 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 215 00:08:49,434 --> 00:08:52,188 AUDIENCE: I'm thinking from a pro aspect, where not 216 00:08:52,188 --> 00:08:55,279 exactly like craps, where you're playing against the house, 217 00:08:55,279 --> 00:08:57,070 the house is always going to have the edge. 218 00:08:57,070 --> 00:08:58,070 But the poker aspect, where you're 219 00:08:58,070 --> 00:08:59,153 playing against one other. 220 00:08:59,153 --> 00:09:03,215 And yeah, [INAUDIBLE] if you're that much better 221 00:09:03,215 --> 00:09:05,580 than everyone else, then you can play 222 00:09:05,580 --> 00:09:07,989 professionally [INAUDIBLE]. 223 00:09:07,989 --> 00:09:10,530 In which case, you wouldn't want to take the luck element out 224 00:09:10,530 --> 00:09:13,680 of it, because your customers-- 225 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:15,811 that is, the people you're playing against-- 226 00:09:15,811 --> 00:09:17,810 aren't going to want to play against you if they 227 00:09:17,810 --> 00:09:19,910 realize that they're so bad. 228 00:09:19,910 --> 00:09:21,500 But if they win every once in a while, 229 00:09:21,500 --> 00:09:27,470 and they feel like they're winning often, but not a lot-- 230 00:09:27,470 --> 00:09:33,484 yeah, [INAUDIBLE] You wouldn't want that [INAUDIBLE]. 231 00:09:33,484 --> 00:09:34,150 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 232 00:09:34,150 --> 00:09:38,520 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] typically a large percentage of people 233 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:43,800 that actually play poker now make money, even when include-- 234 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,932 I believe it's somewhere between 1/5 and 1/2 235 00:09:45,932 --> 00:09:50,420 of people will make money playing poker even 236 00:09:50,420 --> 00:09:52,182 without [INAUDIBLE]. 237 00:09:52,182 --> 00:09:54,437 AUDIENCE: I think it's a lot lower than that. 238 00:09:54,437 --> 00:09:57,144 It depends on how good the table is. 239 00:09:57,144 --> 00:09:59,060 PROFESSOR: Are both these cases you're talking 240 00:09:59,060 --> 00:10:00,860 about in casino play? 241 00:10:00,860 --> 00:10:03,278 AUDIENCE: I'm talking about [INAUDIBLE] poker table 242 00:10:03,278 --> 00:10:04,730 at [INAUDIBLE]. 243 00:10:04,730 --> 00:10:06,440 And that's including [INAUDIBLE]. 244 00:10:10,450 --> 00:10:12,825 AUDIENCE: Well, I'm not sure if you mean in that session, 245 00:10:12,825 --> 00:10:13,890 or over the long term. 246 00:10:13,890 --> 00:10:15,981 But I think [INAUDIBLE]. 247 00:10:15,981 --> 00:10:17,889 AUDIENCE: Even on [INAUDIBLE]? 248 00:10:17,889 --> 00:10:22,380 AUDIENCE: I think in long-term, probably 10% [INAUDIBLE]. 249 00:10:22,380 --> 00:10:24,330 AUDIENCE: 98% of poker players are 250 00:10:24,330 --> 00:10:27,460 long-term losers, [INAUDIBLE]. 251 00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:29,600 [LAUGHING] 252 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:30,660 PROFESSOR: What website? 253 00:10:30,660 --> 00:10:31,618 AUDIENCE: I don't know. 254 00:10:31,618 --> 00:10:33,290 TexasHoldEm-Poker.com. 255 00:10:33,290 --> 00:10:35,240 PROFESSOR: Sounds incredibly authentic. 256 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:36,127 AUDIENCE: No, yeah. 257 00:10:36,127 --> 00:10:36,626 [LAUGHING] 258 00:10:36,626 --> 00:10:37,484 PROFESSOR: Go ahead. 259 00:10:37,484 --> 00:10:39,650 AUDIENCE: So to your question about craps, my first, 260 00:10:39,650 --> 00:10:42,050 I guess, response-- 261 00:10:42,050 --> 00:10:45,980 my thought was that if you change the dice to a spinner, 262 00:10:45,980 --> 00:10:49,100 even if it has the same exact distribution, 263 00:10:49,100 --> 00:10:50,510 it seems like a different game. 264 00:10:50,510 --> 00:10:52,370 So I started thinking about it, and if you 265 00:10:52,370 --> 00:10:55,425 have a game like online craps, that's kind of what you did, 266 00:10:55,425 --> 00:10:57,700 except you just show them a picture of dice. 267 00:10:57,700 --> 00:10:59,510 And that feels like it's the same. 268 00:10:59,510 --> 00:11:01,640 So I guess I'm not sure. 269 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:02,515 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 270 00:11:02,515 --> 00:11:04,973 AUDIENCE: Maybe new rituals would come up with the spinner. 271 00:11:04,973 --> 00:11:06,621 Like maybe if you're blowing on dice, 272 00:11:06,621 --> 00:11:07,954 you rub your hands or something. 273 00:11:07,954 --> 00:11:09,212 [INAUDIBLE] 274 00:11:09,212 --> 00:11:12,120 AUDIENCE: And the question of mechanic versus aesthetic. 275 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,080 It's the exact same mechanic, right? 276 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,580 You have the random number generator 277 00:11:15,580 --> 00:11:18,710 that somehow gets you money or loses you money, 278 00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:21,390 with very specific rules on how it works. 279 00:11:21,390 --> 00:11:26,860 Whether it's the die, or the spinner, or a computer, 280 00:11:26,860 --> 00:11:29,540 that's what the user's experiencing. 281 00:11:29,540 --> 00:11:32,160 But at the end of the day, it's just 282 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,784 like Monopoly-- at the end of the day, 283 00:11:33,784 --> 00:11:35,200 you have a random number generator 284 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,140 that's moving you around the board, and you collect stuff. 285 00:11:37,140 --> 00:11:39,385 How they skin Monopoly doesn't really matter-- 286 00:11:39,385 --> 00:11:40,650 it's still Monopoly. 287 00:11:40,650 --> 00:11:41,441 PROFESSOR: Exactly. 288 00:11:41,441 --> 00:11:43,812 And they showed it. 289 00:11:43,812 --> 00:11:46,630 AUDIENCE: I guess going off of the feel, and the fact 290 00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:50,320 that with dice, some people believe 291 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,790 it takes some type of skill. 292 00:11:54,790 --> 00:11:58,260 They feel like they can roll 6's more often if they, 293 00:11:58,260 --> 00:11:58,990 I don't know-- 294 00:11:58,990 --> 00:12:00,990 PROFESSOR: There's a lot more tactility to dice. 295 00:12:00,990 --> 00:12:04,000 Like maybe if I'm just cupping it the right way, maybe 296 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,346 if I put the die facing the right side up 297 00:12:06,346 --> 00:12:08,470 on the palm of my hand when I roll it, 298 00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:10,319 maybe there's going to be something there. 299 00:12:10,319 --> 00:12:11,610 Maybe I've got the skill there. 300 00:12:11,610 --> 00:12:13,359 Maybe it's just for the back of the house. 301 00:12:13,359 --> 00:12:16,420 Maybe it's for the casino sites-- who knows. 302 00:12:16,420 --> 00:12:19,690 But yeah, you're tricked into feeling 303 00:12:19,690 --> 00:12:22,540 like there's some choice that you're able to make 304 00:12:22,540 --> 00:12:25,540 to change the outcome. 305 00:12:25,540 --> 00:12:28,180 AUDIENCE: So to build off of [? Damon's ?] point, 306 00:12:28,180 --> 00:12:29,960 that helps clarify my idea on it. 307 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,960 Because I think part of craps, then, 308 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,700 is the aesthetic experience. 309 00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:37,390 And to me, it feels like the dice, or at least 310 00:12:37,390 --> 00:12:39,619 the idea of dice, is fundamental to craps. 311 00:12:39,619 --> 00:12:41,160 If you don't have it, then it ends up 312 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,607 being a different game, because it's a different aesthetic. 313 00:12:45,607 --> 00:12:48,190 PROFESSOR: So going back towards the beginning of the reading, 314 00:12:48,190 --> 00:12:51,020 one aspect of this aspect the reading is framing itself in 315 00:12:51,020 --> 00:12:52,390 is target audience. 316 00:12:52,390 --> 00:12:55,390 Who is the target audience for the game you're making? 317 00:12:55,390 --> 00:12:57,630 And it starts off with Candyland. 318 00:12:57,630 --> 00:13:02,140 Candyland, the most random, the least predictable, 319 00:13:02,140 --> 00:13:06,370 the least amount of player choice that there is in a game. 320 00:13:06,370 --> 00:13:10,570 But because of the audience that it's being designed for, 321 00:13:10,570 --> 00:13:11,280 that's OK. 322 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:16,180 That's actually beneficial in the examples they gave. 323 00:13:16,180 --> 00:13:18,250 So have you thought about the target audience 324 00:13:18,250 --> 00:13:19,630 for your own games right now? 325 00:13:19,630 --> 00:13:22,460 Do you have a clue about what that might be? 326 00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:23,960 Or the context that you were saying, 327 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,510 the framing you might think-- 328 00:13:25,510 --> 00:13:27,807 I know with your game, at least, there's 329 00:13:27,807 --> 00:13:29,390 some kind of party atmosphere going on 330 00:13:29,390 --> 00:13:33,400 in it because of the physicality involved, right? 331 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,930 Any others? 332 00:13:35,930 --> 00:13:38,560 OK, because one thing to think about, especially when you're 333 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:40,970 coming to this from a designer [INAUDIBLE] 334 00:13:40,970 --> 00:13:42,880 and know the assumptions you have, 335 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,936 and the personal likes and dislikes that you have. 336 00:13:45,936 --> 00:13:47,310 And you're going to be on a team, 337 00:13:47,310 --> 00:13:48,810 you're on a team of multiple people. 338 00:13:48,810 --> 00:13:51,300 You're all going to have different likes and dislikes. 339 00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:52,950 One thing to try to really figure out 340 00:13:52,950 --> 00:13:55,540 early on is who is the person playing the game, 341 00:13:55,540 --> 00:13:58,486 and what is their dislikes, and what are their likes? 342 00:13:58,486 --> 00:13:59,610 At this point, just assume. 343 00:13:59,610 --> 00:14:02,120 Just come up with a random target audience person, 344 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,620 and just make that assumption about what they may or may not 345 00:14:04,620 --> 00:14:05,340 like. 346 00:14:05,340 --> 00:14:08,940 Because I know you're going to have discussions, 347 00:14:08,940 --> 00:14:10,860 arguments over which one is best or not. 348 00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:13,557 How much randomness are we going to include in this game or not? 349 00:14:13,557 --> 00:14:15,890 Are we going to include this mechanic over this mechanic 350 00:14:15,890 --> 00:14:16,422 or not? 351 00:14:16,422 --> 00:14:18,630 Rather than making it about what you personally like, 352 00:14:18,630 --> 00:14:21,037 maybe try taking it to what another person is 353 00:14:21,037 --> 00:14:21,620 going to like. 354 00:14:21,620 --> 00:14:23,172 How it's actually going to played. 355 00:14:23,172 --> 00:14:25,380 And you might not find that out until you're actually 356 00:14:25,380 --> 00:14:27,505 in the middle of play testing and you're getting it 357 00:14:27,505 --> 00:14:30,040 in front of other people. 358 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:30,870 [SNEEZES] 359 00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:31,790 AUDIENCE: Bless you. 360 00:14:31,790 --> 00:14:32,520 PROFESSOR: Cool. 361 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,940 So I want to talk about randomness some more later on. 362 00:14:34,940 --> 00:14:38,790 But first, let's spend about-- 363 00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:41,340 I think some of these games can be played in about an hour 364 00:14:41,340 --> 00:14:43,540 and a half, an hour? 365 00:14:43,540 --> 00:14:46,710 So we'll play some of these games until about 2:30 366 00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:48,120 and talk a little bit after them. 367 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,411 What we want to talk about as you're playing the game-- 368 00:14:50,411 --> 00:14:52,710 pay attention to how randomness is used in the game 369 00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:55,050 and how player choice is used in the game. 370 00:14:55,050 --> 00:14:59,129 They're all going to be pretty similar to each other, 371 00:14:59,129 --> 00:15:01,170 but with a different mix and a different balance. 372 00:15:01,170 --> 00:15:04,168 But similar types of mechanics are in each of these games, 373 00:15:04,168 --> 00:15:06,930 if I remember this correctly. 374 00:15:06,930 --> 00:15:10,200 So [? John, ?] you want to describe 375 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:11,470 the games that you learned? 376 00:15:11,470 --> 00:15:14,746 AUDIENCE: So I checked out Race for the Galaxy. 377 00:15:14,746 --> 00:15:16,740 How many people have played this game? 378 00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:19,780 PROFESSOR: How many have played San Juan? 379 00:15:19,780 --> 00:15:21,376 OK. 380 00:15:21,376 --> 00:15:28,124 AUDIENCE: So I listened to the rules online a few times, 381 00:15:28,124 --> 00:15:32,462 but I didn't actually get a chance to play this game. 382 00:15:32,462 --> 00:15:37,182 But it's a game where you're trying to get victory points. 383 00:15:37,182 --> 00:15:39,780 And the main mechanic-- actually, there's 384 00:15:39,780 --> 00:15:42,678 really cool artwork, so I'd like to pass it around. 385 00:15:52,418 --> 00:15:54,590 PROFESSOR: [INAUDIBLE] think of the pieces 386 00:15:54,590 --> 00:15:56,030 in the game [INAUDIBLE]. 387 00:15:56,030 --> 00:15:59,350 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 388 00:15:59,350 --> 00:16:02,870 AUDIENCE: But I think the unique part about this game 389 00:16:02,870 --> 00:16:07,500 is that there are phases, and each player selects what phase 390 00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:08,774 their setup phase is. 391 00:16:08,774 --> 00:16:10,190 And they each do different things. 392 00:16:10,190 --> 00:16:13,630 One phase lets you gain cards, another phase 393 00:16:13,630 --> 00:16:14,900 lets you bet cards. 394 00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:18,495 You can consume items, which gets you victory points. 395 00:16:18,495 --> 00:16:21,860 You can score planets, et cetera. 396 00:16:21,860 --> 00:16:24,994 And each person selects the phase that they want to play, 397 00:16:24,994 --> 00:16:27,670 and I think they get bonus for doing so. 398 00:16:27,670 --> 00:16:30,200 Everyone simultaneously plays the phase that they want, 399 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:36,810 and everyone can take part in that phase. 400 00:16:36,810 --> 00:16:42,247 So seems like a really neat game. 401 00:16:42,247 --> 00:16:45,760 Maybe [INAUDIBLE] more granular aspects, 402 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,315 and you can play around. 403 00:16:49,315 --> 00:16:57,430 Agricola-- I had the opportunity to play a few times, actually. 404 00:16:57,430 --> 00:16:58,850 And it's really fun. 405 00:16:58,850 --> 00:17:00,400 So check out the [INAUDIBLE] here. 406 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,220 There's a lot going on, actually. 407 00:17:02,220 --> 00:17:06,281 There's a little-- what would you call this-- player board? 408 00:17:06,281 --> 00:17:07,614 PROFESSOR: Yeah, a player board. 409 00:17:07,614 --> 00:17:07,890 AUDIENCE: Player board. 410 00:17:07,890 --> 00:17:09,609 Everyone gets one of these. 411 00:17:09,609 --> 00:17:11,839 And then there's a common area as well. 412 00:17:14,950 --> 00:17:18,169 Multiple things, actually. 413 00:17:18,169 --> 00:17:19,856 PROFESSOR: Are you going to [INAUDIBLE]? 414 00:17:19,856 --> 00:17:20,480 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 415 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,750 So there are these major improvements, 416 00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:26,047 which you can invest in, get victory points, 417 00:17:26,047 --> 00:17:29,570 and get power-ups eventually. 418 00:17:29,570 --> 00:17:31,620 There are different rounds to the game, 419 00:17:31,620 --> 00:17:33,180 and it's a worker placement game. 420 00:17:33,180 --> 00:17:36,823 So you start with a couple of workers, you're a family, 421 00:17:36,823 --> 00:17:40,325 and you're farming stuff, roughly. 422 00:17:40,325 --> 00:17:42,590 And you want to expand your farm. 423 00:17:42,590 --> 00:17:46,730 You can either build up your house, you could get livestock, 424 00:17:46,730 --> 00:17:50,190 or you can plow your fields. 425 00:17:50,190 --> 00:17:54,280 And there's different rounds, a finite amount of rounds. 426 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,460 And resources respawn into this board every round, 427 00:17:58,460 --> 00:18:00,611 so it's actually quite cumbersome 428 00:18:00,611 --> 00:18:03,607 to re-up the resources every time. 429 00:18:03,607 --> 00:18:05,690 And the whole point about this game that I thought 430 00:18:05,690 --> 00:18:09,129 was really unique-- oh, you also get 431 00:18:09,129 --> 00:18:10,670 a limited amount of profession cards, 432 00:18:10,670 --> 00:18:12,062 and also minor improvements. 433 00:18:12,062 --> 00:18:13,940 And those are different every game. 434 00:18:13,940 --> 00:18:16,950 There's a pretty big stack of these profession 435 00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:19,290 and minor improvement cards, but you only get seven. 436 00:18:19,290 --> 00:18:21,640 So that's the hand that you have to deal with, 437 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,336 and you don't ever get any more. 438 00:18:25,336 --> 00:18:26,987 Yeah, so there's different rounds. 439 00:18:26,987 --> 00:18:28,570 And you only have a couple of workers. 440 00:18:28,570 --> 00:18:32,150 And the only way you can expand your family over time-- 441 00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:34,955 you have to pick and choose what your strategy is going to be. 442 00:18:34,955 --> 00:18:36,496 You don't have time to do everything, 443 00:18:36,496 --> 00:18:39,780 because the rounds come really quick. 444 00:18:39,780 --> 00:18:42,820 There's also a harvest phase, which is essentially-- 445 00:18:42,820 --> 00:18:45,960 so during the other rounds, you're amassing resources. 446 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,810 And a harvest phase, where you cull the resources out 447 00:18:48,810 --> 00:18:50,124 from your farm. 448 00:18:50,124 --> 00:18:52,290 And you definitely don't have time to do everything. 449 00:18:52,290 --> 00:18:55,340 But at the same time, the scoring, the points at the end, 450 00:18:55,340 --> 00:18:58,437 rewards you for that respawning. 451 00:18:58,437 --> 00:19:00,520 Another thing that I noticed with that-- the cards 452 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,980 that you get dealt, some of them have early game benefits. 453 00:19:03,980 --> 00:19:06,030 For instance, if you play this game, 454 00:19:06,030 --> 00:19:08,170 wood is super awesome at the beginning of the game, 455 00:19:08,170 --> 00:19:10,030 so get the wood thing every time. 456 00:19:10,030 --> 00:19:13,120 But as you go on in the game, wood [INAUDIBLE]. 457 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:15,745 So it was a fun dynamic that I was able to experience. 458 00:19:15,745 --> 00:19:17,620 PROFESSOR: Did it come with beginner's rules, 459 00:19:17,620 --> 00:19:19,434 or first-time rules? 460 00:19:19,434 --> 00:19:20,850 AUDIENCE: I think it's recommended 461 00:19:20,850 --> 00:19:21,765 for younger players. 462 00:19:21,765 --> 00:19:23,640 PROFESSOR: Yeah, I'd recommend playing those. 463 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,250 You'll get the same feel, and you'll probably 464 00:19:26,250 --> 00:19:27,650 get a full play-- 465 00:19:27,650 --> 00:19:28,685 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. 466 00:19:28,685 --> 00:19:30,810 PROFESSOR: You'll still get a full play experience, 467 00:19:30,810 --> 00:19:32,290 and you can play multiple games a day. 468 00:19:32,290 --> 00:19:33,250 AUDIENCE: There's lots of bits. 469 00:19:33,250 --> 00:19:35,370 If I had one criticism, there are so many bits, 470 00:19:35,370 --> 00:19:38,882 and it's really tedious to re-spawn all the resources. 471 00:19:38,882 --> 00:19:40,590 PROFESSOR: And the colors aren't all that 472 00:19:40,590 --> 00:19:42,006 different from each other, either. 473 00:19:42,006 --> 00:19:45,540 AUDIENCE: I saw some online where actually, the pigs are-- 474 00:19:45,540 --> 00:19:47,830 they just had little pink piggies, 475 00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:51,484 and that box would have been cool. 476 00:19:51,484 --> 00:19:53,150 There's also a bunch of different decks, 477 00:19:53,150 --> 00:19:54,600 so I think there's tons of replayability. 478 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,610 And I actually kind of want to buy this game, 479 00:19:56,610 --> 00:19:58,810 because at first, there's tons of cards. 480 00:19:58,810 --> 00:20:02,265 Really, the whole deck, it's basically all over. 481 00:20:02,265 --> 00:20:04,676 And reading every line is kind of overwhelming. 482 00:20:04,676 --> 00:20:06,050 But after playing it a few times, 483 00:20:06,050 --> 00:20:12,305 I really got the hang of it, and it was a fun experience. 484 00:20:12,305 --> 00:20:16,504 AUDIENCE: Every time I play this game, I also play 485 00:20:16,504 --> 00:20:17,670 [INAUDIBLE] with my friends. 486 00:20:17,670 --> 00:20:19,200 And every time, someone pulls out 487 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:20,750 some interesting combination combo 488 00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:23,630 that we haven't seen before, and it's like, oh, well. 489 00:20:23,630 --> 00:20:26,370 AUDIENCE: So let me ask how you do drafting, because online, I 490 00:20:26,370 --> 00:20:29,660 heard there's rituals around the drafting process. 491 00:20:29,660 --> 00:20:31,244 Did you have house rules? 492 00:20:31,244 --> 00:20:33,410 AUDIENCE: Usually, you do observation first and then 493 00:20:33,410 --> 00:20:33,910 [INAUDIBLE]. 494 00:20:33,910 --> 00:20:36,510 You deal everyone seven, they take one, 495 00:20:36,510 --> 00:20:38,017 pass the rest to the left. 496 00:20:38,017 --> 00:20:41,230 AUDIENCE: OK, and it's a public sort of process? 497 00:20:41,230 --> 00:20:43,340 AUDIENCE: No, you only see the card that you have, 498 00:20:43,340 --> 00:20:44,548 until you can pass. 499 00:20:44,548 --> 00:20:45,450 AUDIENCE: Oh, so you get passed the same, 500 00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:46,529 you pick one, and then-- 501 00:20:46,529 --> 00:20:47,820 AUDIENCE: You start with seven. 502 00:20:47,820 --> 00:20:49,253 Everyone has seven in hand. 503 00:20:49,253 --> 00:20:50,990 Everyone picks one from their hand 504 00:20:50,990 --> 00:20:53,046 and passes the remaining six [INAUDIBLE]. 505 00:20:53,046 --> 00:20:55,467 And that person looks at that six. 506 00:20:55,467 --> 00:20:58,285 [INAUDIBLE] know all seven cards or not. 507 00:20:58,285 --> 00:20:59,910 AUDIENCE: Maybe that was just something 508 00:20:59,910 --> 00:21:02,635 that came up through the community in the ritual 509 00:21:02,635 --> 00:21:03,510 of playing this game. 510 00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:05,584 Or maybe it's written in the rules, but I-- 511 00:21:05,584 --> 00:21:07,917 PROFESSOR: Both are played professionally and for money. 512 00:21:07,917 --> 00:21:08,625 AUDIENCE: Oh, OK. 513 00:21:08,625 --> 00:21:12,150 PROFESSOR: And that's where a lot of the decks came out of. 514 00:21:12,150 --> 00:21:13,910 You'll see people-- just like Magic 515 00:21:13,910 --> 00:21:15,535 the Gathering-- the new decks come out, 516 00:21:15,535 --> 00:21:17,790 you'll get new tournaments going on. 517 00:21:17,790 --> 00:21:19,842 Really popular in Europe and Germany. 518 00:21:19,842 --> 00:21:21,300 AUDIENCE: So the drafting process-- 519 00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:23,675 is that something that spawned--? 520 00:21:23,675 --> 00:21:25,830 PROFESSOR: It probably came from a pro play. 521 00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:27,795 AUDIENCE: Because we just distribute the cards. 522 00:21:27,795 --> 00:21:29,670 PROFESSOR: Which I think is one of the things 523 00:21:29,670 --> 00:21:31,387 you can do to sometimes balance skill. 524 00:21:31,387 --> 00:21:32,220 Doesn't always work. 525 00:21:32,220 --> 00:21:33,600 You're still going to have people 526 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:34,900 who are really skilled at drafting 527 00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:37,380 and really skilled at reading the table, based on the cards 528 00:21:37,380 --> 00:21:40,352 and having a good memory of what cards came before them. 529 00:21:40,352 --> 00:21:41,560 AUDIENCE: OK, I can see that. 530 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:42,934 So it's a fun game. 531 00:21:42,934 --> 00:21:44,559 Definitely check it out if you haven't. 532 00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:45,590 PROFESSOR: Cool. 533 00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:49,010 Got another more simplified worker placement game called 534 00:21:49,010 --> 00:21:52,540 [INAUDIBLE] by-- 535 00:21:52,540 --> 00:21:54,040 I don't know the name. 536 00:21:58,350 --> 00:22:01,710 And what this has is a lot of the randomness 537 00:22:01,710 --> 00:22:06,900 in this one coming from not knowing 538 00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:08,940 what's coming up in the tiles. 539 00:22:08,940 --> 00:22:11,580 So you're kind of uncovering this forest area, 540 00:22:11,580 --> 00:22:16,560 discovering new things, placing your workers in these tiles 541 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,820 to basically get victory points. 542 00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:26,200 The victory points are traps around the board. 543 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:27,930 So you'll see, actually, this conceit 544 00:22:27,930 --> 00:22:29,640 used a lot in these kind of games, 545 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,135 where the victory points are like a race, 546 00:22:32,135 --> 00:22:33,510 the [INAUDIBLE] at the right does 547 00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:38,820 this on a number of things [INAUDIBLE]. 548 00:22:38,820 --> 00:22:42,280 Very basic shapes for the pieces. 549 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,870 Simple color, natural wood colors. 550 00:22:45,870 --> 00:22:50,950 And I think you can tell the difference-- 551 00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:54,090 I'm not sure if they do a colorblind test on this, 552 00:22:54,090 --> 00:22:57,520 but I assume that colorblind folks can 553 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,265 see the different [INAUDIBLE]. 554 00:23:02,650 --> 00:23:07,390 Puerto Rico is kind of the board game version of, a simpler 555 00:23:07,390 --> 00:23:09,380 version of Race for the Galaxy. 556 00:23:09,380 --> 00:23:11,145 A resource-generation game. 557 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,170 Again, played around rounds. 558 00:23:16,170 --> 00:23:18,790 Each person has their own plantation 559 00:23:18,790 --> 00:23:20,530 that you're basically building up. 560 00:23:20,530 --> 00:23:23,443 And the big thing with this series of games, 561 00:23:23,443 --> 00:23:25,692 and Race for the Galaxy does this as well, I believe-- 562 00:23:28,770 --> 00:23:35,160 so if you're the person who chooses what 563 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,902 happens in a round or a phase-- 564 00:23:36,902 --> 00:23:38,360 I forget exactly what it's called-- 565 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:39,500 then the person who chose it gets 566 00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:41,916 a privilege that they can do something a little bit extra. 567 00:23:41,916 --> 00:23:44,640 So part of the play is choosing the role 568 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,920 based on both whether it's going to be good for you, 569 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,836 or whether it's going to hurt the other people around you. 570 00:23:49,836 --> 00:23:53,250 Basically denying privilege and making something in the game 571 00:23:53,250 --> 00:23:57,980 happen before somebody else might have wanted it to happen. 572 00:23:57,980 --> 00:24:03,550 Dominion, classic Magic-based card drafting game. 573 00:24:07,420 --> 00:24:12,910 Lots of different types of cards of multiple number. 574 00:24:12,910 --> 00:24:15,960 And again, you're playing for victory points. 575 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,310 If you have played Dominion before, 576 00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:20,802 I recommend playing one of the other games. 577 00:24:20,802 --> 00:24:23,550 If you haven't played Dominion before, 578 00:24:23,550 --> 00:24:25,100 it's really easy and really fast. 579 00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:26,160 So it's 30 minutes. 580 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,510 Your first playthrough will probably be about 45. 581 00:24:28,510 --> 00:24:29,977 I have not played this one. 582 00:24:29,977 --> 00:24:32,560 And I'm going to find out what it's about when I open the box. 583 00:24:39,790 --> 00:24:44,130 It's in multiple languages. 584 00:24:44,130 --> 00:24:47,524 Again, board with racing numbers around it, 585 00:24:47,524 --> 00:24:49,370 much smaller board this time. 586 00:24:49,370 --> 00:24:53,370 And what are we to be doing? 587 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:00,320 You're archaeologists. 588 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,590 You're trying to acquire knowledge 589 00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:06,470 for an excavation exhibition. 590 00:25:06,470 --> 00:25:09,575 You're planning excavations and exhibitions 591 00:25:09,575 --> 00:25:16,480 and getting victory points from digging in [INAUDIBLE] 592 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,220 and finding valuable artifacts. 593 00:25:19,220 --> 00:25:21,220 So yeah, unfortunately, I can't exactly tell you 594 00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:24,220 exactly what this is about. 595 00:25:24,220 --> 00:25:27,670 But it's likely resource gathering and a little bit 596 00:25:27,670 --> 00:25:30,470 of worker placement. 597 00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:34,190 So those are the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 games. 598 00:25:34,190 --> 00:25:36,325 Grab a game, set up a group. 599 00:25:36,325 --> 00:25:40,397 I'll call time at about 2:30 and see where we're at. 600 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:51,340 So don't put your game away yet. 601 00:25:54,570 --> 00:25:57,170 If you guys could come back over to Race for the Galaxy-- 602 00:25:57,170 --> 00:26:00,294 what I'd like each group, each game being played, 603 00:26:00,294 --> 00:26:01,960 tell us a little bit about-- well first, 604 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,764 tell us what the game was. 605 00:26:03,764 --> 00:26:04,555 And tell us about-- 606 00:26:07,011 --> 00:26:09,010 this is assuming you were able to get this far-- 607 00:26:09,010 --> 00:26:13,030 how randomness and player choice entered into the game. 608 00:26:13,030 --> 00:26:17,500 How was it used in the game, how did it play through? 609 00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:20,740 Don't just focus on the statistics of probability, 610 00:26:20,740 --> 00:26:22,740 but also talk about performance, and feel, 611 00:26:22,740 --> 00:26:27,070 and the tactileness of the pieces in what you're doing. 612 00:26:27,070 --> 00:26:29,165 So you guys go first. 613 00:26:29,165 --> 00:26:32,320 AUDIENCE: All right, we had Puerto Rico. 614 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:38,240 The randomness had to do with, I guess, right here in the tiles 615 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,900 that the plantation tiles that flip up. 616 00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:44,320 The player's choice comes in with the role 617 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,670 that you can use for that round, and also, I 618 00:26:48,670 --> 00:26:50,710 guess, whatever strategy you choose, 619 00:26:50,710 --> 00:26:53,350 be it building up enough money to buy stuff, 620 00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:59,500 or trying to get enough colonists 621 00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:03,167 so that every single one of your tiles is occupied. 622 00:27:03,167 --> 00:27:04,750 AUDIENCE: So you had a lot of choices. 623 00:27:04,750 --> 00:27:08,190 Basically, at the beginning of the round, you pick a role, 624 00:27:08,190 --> 00:27:11,040 and each role has a special privilege that you get. 625 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,470 And then everybody, including you, 626 00:27:13,470 --> 00:27:16,560 perform an action based on that role. 627 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,180 And so on your turn, you pick a role, keeping in mind 628 00:27:20,180 --> 00:27:21,680 there's a lot of public information. 629 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,550 So you can see what's good for you 630 00:27:23,550 --> 00:27:27,330 and also perhaps not as good for everyone else. 631 00:27:27,330 --> 00:27:30,690 And then each one of these roles, the actions-- 632 00:27:30,690 --> 00:27:33,500 everybody gets a choice on how they perform it. 633 00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:36,450 So for example, he was saying, these little tiles 634 00:27:36,450 --> 00:27:37,279 that flip up-- 635 00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:39,570 one of the roles lets you basically take one and put it 636 00:27:39,570 --> 00:27:40,365 on your board. 637 00:27:40,365 --> 00:27:45,002 So there's choice there between how you compose your board. 638 00:27:45,002 --> 00:27:47,460 And those lead into getting different resources and victory 639 00:27:47,460 --> 00:27:49,360 points and other such things. 640 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,735 PROFESSOR: How did it feel? 641 00:27:51,735 --> 00:27:54,770 AUDIENCE: It was really annoying to set up. 642 00:27:54,770 --> 00:28:01,450 Tactileness-- nothing special, I guess. 643 00:28:01,450 --> 00:28:07,316 It's a lot of tiles, little bits you use. 644 00:28:07,316 --> 00:28:09,470 These are goods-- 645 00:28:09,470 --> 00:28:13,830 I think this one is tobacoo, maybe? 646 00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:14,330 Corn. 647 00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:20,030 Those kinds of things, you sell, you 648 00:28:20,030 --> 00:28:23,700 get gold or victory points for. 649 00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:25,280 Here is a gold. 650 00:28:28,290 --> 00:28:30,540 PROFESSOR: You mentioned earlier about the affordances 651 00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:34,290 of the pieces to the play mat? 652 00:28:34,290 --> 00:28:35,176 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 653 00:28:35,176 --> 00:28:36,730 Is there [INAUDIBLE] play map? 654 00:28:36,730 --> 00:28:38,172 AUDIENCE: Oh, here. 655 00:28:38,172 --> 00:28:38,850 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 656 00:28:38,850 --> 00:28:42,212 So this is what the play board looks like. 657 00:28:42,212 --> 00:28:43,670 So you can notice, basically, there 658 00:28:43,670 --> 00:28:46,620 are two main types of grid. 659 00:28:46,620 --> 00:28:48,780 One's little rectangles, 2 x 1. 660 00:28:48,780 --> 00:28:50,790 And one's a 1 x 1 square. 661 00:28:50,790 --> 00:28:58,610 And so we have a couple of different-- 662 00:28:58,610 --> 00:29:01,300 so here is one thing [INAUDIBLE] clearly 2 x 663 00:29:01,300 --> 00:29:04,960 1 and fit in that 2 by 1 square, and same with this one. 664 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,070 And there are also little 1 x 1 squares. 665 00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:11,610 And so one of the interesting things is that with this board, 666 00:29:11,610 --> 00:29:16,440 you can tell there's clearly a limited number of things you 667 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,319 can put on this grid, right? 668 00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:20,610 I don't think there's a mechanic for removing something 669 00:29:20,610 --> 00:29:21,840 once you've placed it. 670 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,450 So it'll fill up eventually. 671 00:29:23,450 --> 00:29:25,194 So you have to keep [INAUDIBLE]. 672 00:29:25,194 --> 00:29:27,235 While you do want to build things quickly and try 673 00:29:27,235 --> 00:29:29,440 to get more resources at the beginning of the game, 674 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,090 you also don't want to just fill your board with crap 675 00:29:31,090 --> 00:29:32,798 and then be stuck at the end of the game. 676 00:29:32,798 --> 00:29:35,138 So it's kind of similar to Dominion, in that sense. 677 00:29:35,138 --> 00:29:37,429 AUDIENCE: And while they do building [INAUDIBLE] really 678 00:29:37,429 --> 00:29:39,570 well, because [INAUDIBLE], maybe they 679 00:29:39,570 --> 00:29:42,420 could have done the other bits, where they're roughly 680 00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:43,640 the same size and shape. 681 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,364 And it was a little confusing [INAUDIBLE] square 682 00:29:46,364 --> 00:29:48,100 at the very beginning. 683 00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:51,292 PROFESSOR: How did the rules support those piece sizes? 684 00:29:51,292 --> 00:29:52,750 You've already got some affordacnes 685 00:29:52,750 --> 00:29:53,960 going on with the pieces. 686 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,710 Do the rules piggyback off that? 687 00:29:55,710 --> 00:29:57,560 Do they take advantage of it? 688 00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:58,740 AUDIENCE: Not really. 689 00:29:58,740 --> 00:30:00,970 AUDIENCE: There were some diagrams that were pretty. 690 00:30:00,970 --> 00:30:05,277 AUDIENCE: Some of them, but they also didn't explain very well. 691 00:30:05,277 --> 00:30:07,110 They didn't diagram the player board at all, 692 00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:09,960 so basically, there's nothing here. 693 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,920 This is just buildings and plants, 694 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,393 and these are plantations. 695 00:30:15,393 --> 00:30:18,682 I think you just kind of figured it out, like I guess we did. 696 00:30:18,682 --> 00:30:20,140 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] down, though. 697 00:30:20,140 --> 00:30:21,098 AUDIENCE: Yeah, it did. 698 00:30:21,098 --> 00:30:22,560 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 699 00:30:23,984 --> 00:30:25,650 AUDIENCE: We're only on our second round 700 00:30:25,650 --> 00:30:28,820 right now, like our second full, going around. 701 00:30:28,820 --> 00:30:30,404 Because the setup-- first of all, just 702 00:30:30,404 --> 00:30:32,694 sorting all this stuff out, it's kind of like Dominion, 703 00:30:32,694 --> 00:30:34,425 where it's a pain in the butt to sort out 704 00:30:34,425 --> 00:30:36,420 all the tiles, and the cards, and whatever. 705 00:30:36,420 --> 00:30:39,000 But also just trying to figure out what we're doing, 706 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,525 and what's going on for the first round was really slow. 707 00:30:41,525 --> 00:30:42,900 AUDIENCE: I mean, I guess there's 708 00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:45,720 a little picture of buildings, and a little picture of palm 709 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,120 trees, so-- 710 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:48,640 PROFESSOR: It gives a lot of space 711 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,660 on the map to describing these things that are already 712 00:30:51,660 --> 00:30:53,710 described on the card elsewhere. 713 00:30:53,710 --> 00:30:55,130 AUDIENCE: Kind of. 714 00:30:55,130 --> 00:30:55,950 So these roles-- 715 00:30:55,950 --> 00:30:57,042 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 716 00:30:57,042 --> 00:30:58,000 PROFESSOR: That's true. 717 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,510 AUDIENCE: This is a very skimmed down 718 00:31:00,510 --> 00:31:03,387 what's going on, basically. 719 00:31:03,387 --> 00:31:04,220 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 720 00:31:04,220 --> 00:31:06,178 AUDIENCE: --actually a little more information, 721 00:31:06,178 --> 00:31:08,376 and the rulebook is the full information. 722 00:31:08,376 --> 00:31:09,630 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 723 00:31:09,630 --> 00:31:12,000 AUDIENCE: Yeah, but I don't know how much 724 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,773 I agree with putting the one-line summary 725 00:31:14,773 --> 00:31:16,809 on these little role cards. 726 00:31:16,809 --> 00:31:18,225 Because you could look at this, it 727 00:31:18,225 --> 00:31:19,934 says "trader"-- what does trader do here? 728 00:31:19,934 --> 00:31:21,349 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] information. 729 00:31:21,349 --> 00:31:22,670 AUDIENCE: Yeah, basically. 730 00:31:22,670 --> 00:31:24,367 I can understand putting it on the board instead 731 00:31:24,367 --> 00:31:25,722 of the rulebook, because no one want 732 00:31:25,722 --> 00:31:27,800 to have to look through the rulebook every time. 733 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,864 But on here, it's an immediate I can see the roles, OK, I 734 00:31:31,864 --> 00:31:32,780 can look at the board. 735 00:31:32,780 --> 00:31:33,320 AUDIENCE: Do you think redundancies 736 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:34,132 are bad in general? 737 00:31:34,132 --> 00:31:35,715 PROFESSOR: No, redundancies are great. 738 00:31:35,715 --> 00:31:36,650 Redundancies awesome. 739 00:31:36,650 --> 00:31:38,160 We use them as best we can. 740 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,746 But you have only so much spaces, 741 00:31:40,746 --> 00:31:42,120 in the pieces and boards that you 742 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,100 make you've got to really decide what's 743 00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:46,296 the most important thing for the person to know. 744 00:31:46,296 --> 00:31:47,920 And the most important thing-- probably 745 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,040 need to tell them more than once. 746 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,630 Through rules, through the play mats and pieces, 747 00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:54,870 through the just natural, this fits here 748 00:31:54,870 --> 00:31:57,120 and this doesn't fit there kind of thing. 749 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:58,085 But yeah, definitely. 750 00:31:58,085 --> 00:32:01,850 And then text-- some people hate it, some people like it. 751 00:32:01,850 --> 00:32:05,200 I'm in-between, use it as it's needed. 752 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,360 Great. 753 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,734 Race for the Galaxy is kind of similar to this, isn't it? 754 00:32:08,734 --> 00:32:09,590 AUDIENCE: Basically. 755 00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:10,589 PROFESSOR: There you go. 756 00:32:10,589 --> 00:32:12,150 So tell us about Race for the Galaxy. 757 00:32:12,150 --> 00:32:14,880 Randomness, player choice, and then 758 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,123 affordances for the pieces. 759 00:32:16,123 --> 00:32:17,340 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 760 00:32:17,340 --> 00:32:17,460 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 761 00:32:17,460 --> 00:32:18,084 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 762 00:32:18,084 --> 00:32:20,078 [LAUGHING] 763 00:32:20,078 --> 00:32:22,357 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 764 00:32:22,357 --> 00:32:22,940 AUDIENCE: Huh? 765 00:32:22,940 --> 00:32:23,565 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 766 00:32:23,565 --> 00:32:30,260 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] game [INAUDIBLE] 767 00:32:30,260 --> 00:32:32,845 Yeah, [INAUDIBLE] are really just based 768 00:32:32,845 --> 00:32:35,330 on what cards you got dealt. 769 00:32:35,330 --> 00:32:37,459 PROFESSOR: Can you show us how-- 770 00:32:37,459 --> 00:32:40,000 somebody do an example layout while another person's talking? 771 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,999 AUDIENCE: You had a starting world, 772 00:32:46,999 --> 00:32:49,040 which was like a starting hand, which contributes 773 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:50,165 a lot of your initial luck. 774 00:32:50,165 --> 00:32:54,020 And then the card that you drew earlier particularly for-- 775 00:32:54,020 --> 00:32:58,250 you could say [INAUDIBLE], if you don't get any useful cards, 776 00:32:58,250 --> 00:33:03,950 then you're sort of stuck, and you just have to [INAUDIBLE]. 777 00:33:03,950 --> 00:33:07,610 Whereas if you get good cards, then you can sort of-- they'll 778 00:33:07,610 --> 00:33:11,330 allow you to [INAUDIBLE] 779 00:33:11,330 --> 00:33:13,785 So a wrench in the game is that the game is designed to-- 780 00:33:13,785 --> 00:33:18,440 it's like there is sort of a way to have an engine by every turn 781 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,900 by producing points every turn. 782 00:33:20,900 --> 00:33:25,734 But by the time you actually get the engine up 783 00:33:25,734 --> 00:33:28,391 and running, the game ends in one or two turns, anyway. 784 00:33:31,244 --> 00:33:31,785 I don't know. 785 00:33:31,785 --> 00:33:32,720 PROFESSOR: Does that feel like what you guys were 786 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:33,470 doing in this one? 787 00:33:33,470 --> 00:33:35,720 Struggling to build something that 788 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,065 would produce stuff in the end? 789 00:33:37,065 --> 00:33:37,940 AUDIENCE: Yeah, yeah. 790 00:33:37,940 --> 00:33:39,564 PROFESSOR: And on the other games, too? 791 00:33:39,564 --> 00:33:41,920 AUDIENCE: It's producing immediately, actually. 792 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,310 After the first full round, I think every one of us 793 00:33:46,310 --> 00:33:48,869 got something to sell to get stuff back, basically. 794 00:33:48,869 --> 00:33:50,660 AUDIENCE: It's interesting to me that those 795 00:33:50,660 --> 00:33:52,780 are the same games, sort of. 796 00:33:52,780 --> 00:33:56,690 But this has so many bits, and bobs, and gadgets [INAUDIBLE]. 797 00:33:56,690 --> 00:33:57,520 And [INAUDIBLE] 798 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,870 PROFESSOR: From a deck of cards. 799 00:34:00,870 --> 00:34:04,202 What is this doing that that one is doing, too? 800 00:34:04,202 --> 00:34:06,352 AUDIENCE: The role selection. 801 00:34:06,352 --> 00:34:07,810 You choose what you're going to do, 802 00:34:07,810 --> 00:34:11,153 but everyone gets to follow suit with that. 803 00:34:11,153 --> 00:34:15,742 Then you get a bonus [INAUDIBLE]. 804 00:34:15,742 --> 00:34:19,179 AUDIENCE: The little bit there-- they exist here, 805 00:34:19,179 --> 00:34:22,610 but they're in the form of cards face down [INAUDIBLE]. 806 00:34:22,610 --> 00:34:26,283 And so it's not apparent that you have [INAUDIBLE]. 807 00:34:26,283 --> 00:34:28,699 AUDIENCE: Did you have to sort out those goods beforehand? 808 00:34:28,699 --> 00:34:29,250 Or is it just-- 809 00:34:29,250 --> 00:34:29,875 AUDIENCE: Nope. 810 00:34:29,875 --> 00:34:33,589 You literally-- it's like if you suddenly 811 00:34:33,589 --> 00:34:35,130 get a mining good on a mining planet, 812 00:34:35,130 --> 00:34:36,680 you take the top card in the deck, 813 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,639 put it face down under there. 814 00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:42,790 PROFESSOR: So you're taking cards out of play 815 00:34:42,790 --> 00:34:43,803 when you're doing that. 816 00:34:43,803 --> 00:34:46,469 By generating a resource, you're reducing the amount of choices. 817 00:34:46,469 --> 00:34:48,290 Granted, there's a ton of choices up there. 818 00:34:48,290 --> 00:34:49,489 The deck is really large. 819 00:34:49,489 --> 00:34:51,310 So it's not making a huge effort. 820 00:34:51,310 --> 00:34:54,580 Is there a card that you can kind of bury cards 821 00:34:54,580 --> 00:34:57,376 underneath and just completely remove from play for this one? 822 00:34:57,376 --> 00:34:59,276 AUDIENCE: I mean, [INAUDIBLE] could 823 00:34:59,276 --> 00:35:01,527 be put [INAUDIBLE] until you discard 824 00:35:01,527 --> 00:35:03,004 it and then [INAUDIBLE]. 825 00:35:03,004 --> 00:35:04,420 PROFESSOR: So in San Juan, there's 826 00:35:04,420 --> 00:35:08,212 a chapel where every time you put a card underneath it, 827 00:35:08,212 --> 00:35:09,920 it creates a victory point, and that card 828 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,790 can never be used for the rest of that play session. 829 00:35:12,790 --> 00:35:15,130 So a good strategy in that game is 830 00:35:15,130 --> 00:35:19,570 to take things like another high points-giving card 831 00:35:19,570 --> 00:35:21,930 that maybe you can't to build, and somebody else could, 832 00:35:21,930 --> 00:35:23,710 and burying it-- removing it from play. 833 00:35:23,710 --> 00:35:25,480 AUDIENCE: Yeah, this game, you just hold it in your hand, 834 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:26,064 never play it. 835 00:35:26,064 --> 00:35:26,730 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 836 00:35:26,730 --> 00:35:28,280 Can you talk about the player mats? 837 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,058 The kind of player aids it gives you? 838 00:35:31,058 --> 00:35:33,896 AUDIENCE: A very expansive cheat sheet. 839 00:35:33,896 --> 00:35:36,520 AUDIENCE: Yeah, the game uses a lot of iconography on the card. 840 00:35:39,370 --> 00:35:42,959 One team used a lot of the iconography there. 841 00:35:42,959 --> 00:35:45,000 PROFESSOR: To somebody who hasn't played before-- 842 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,584 was the iconography helpful or hurtful? 843 00:35:47,584 --> 00:35:49,250 AUDIENCE: It was certainly very helpful. 844 00:35:49,250 --> 00:35:52,180 I think just thinking along the lines of [INAUDIBLE], 845 00:35:52,180 --> 00:35:53,660 there are very few in this game. 846 00:35:53,660 --> 00:35:56,910 So even though the iconography has 847 00:35:56,910 --> 00:35:59,470 a hand next to a card with a "2" on it, 848 00:35:59,470 --> 00:36:02,330 I still had to work to make sure what that means. 849 00:36:02,330 --> 00:36:04,260 AUDIENCE: On the other hand, one thing 850 00:36:04,260 --> 00:36:08,280 that they did was hexagons are victory points. 851 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,250 They have the hexagon victory points that are actually 852 00:36:11,250 --> 00:36:12,500 little tiles that you can see. 853 00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:17,600 But then on the cards, you can see that on every card, 854 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,070 there's the victory point value, and that's in a hexagon. 855 00:36:20,070 --> 00:36:22,950 And whenever there's a card that says gain victory points, 856 00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:25,280 you see it has a hexagon. 857 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:25,966 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 858 00:36:25,966 --> 00:36:28,507 It could have very well just be shitty fireworks just flowing 859 00:36:28,507 --> 00:36:30,420 out, like this is the card to use. 860 00:36:30,420 --> 00:36:33,320 It's calling it out, really clearly out. 861 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:33,918 That's great. 862 00:36:33,918 --> 00:36:34,959 AUDIENCE: Or the shapes-- 863 00:36:34,959 --> 00:36:39,310 I don't know, the icons make use of the card shape. 864 00:36:39,310 --> 00:36:40,810 They have a little rectangle-- 865 00:36:40,810 --> 00:36:42,240 PROFESSOR: There's also diamonds, 866 00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:43,897 and rectangles, and circles, yeah? 867 00:36:43,897 --> 00:36:44,811 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 868 00:36:44,811 --> 00:36:49,020 Diamonds and circles are for the two types of cards. 869 00:36:49,020 --> 00:36:52,350 PROFESSOR: Are they in different places than [INAUDIBLE]? 870 00:36:52,350 --> 00:36:56,310 AUDIENCE: Yeah, each card has a hexagon thing that [INAUDIBLE] 871 00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:58,437 as well as the [INAUDIBLE]. 872 00:36:58,437 --> 00:37:00,270 PROFESSOR: So yeah, thinking about placement 873 00:37:00,270 --> 00:37:01,500 of where you're putting your numbers, 874 00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:04,079 and where you're putting things on the card, where your eye 875 00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:05,370 goes when you look at the card. 876 00:37:05,370 --> 00:37:09,283 I mean, those are really complex-looking cards there. 877 00:37:09,283 --> 00:37:12,092 AUDIENCE: They even have a little-- 878 00:37:12,092 --> 00:37:15,820 in the upper right, they have sort of reminder symbols 879 00:37:15,820 --> 00:37:16,764 on the cards there. 880 00:37:16,764 --> 00:37:21,040 Because there's [INAUDIBLE] just to remind you, oh, 881 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:22,299 this card is-- 882 00:37:22,299 --> 00:37:24,715 you might forget about this power, you should remember it. 883 00:37:24,715 --> 00:37:26,640 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 884 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,176 That game-- I think all of these are made by the same company. 885 00:37:30,176 --> 00:37:30,698 Yeah. 886 00:37:30,698 --> 00:37:31,198 Rio Grande? 887 00:37:31,198 --> 00:37:34,070 Oh, no, [INAUDIBLE]. 888 00:37:34,070 --> 00:37:36,810 So you're going to see different kinds of-- what do you call 889 00:37:36,810 --> 00:37:37,310 it-- 890 00:37:37,310 --> 00:37:38,960 style guides that they're using. 891 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,680 The rules for these three games are very similar. 892 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,069 I think Race has a little bit more advanced layout, 893 00:37:45,069 --> 00:37:46,610 but there's the basic kind of layout, 894 00:37:46,610 --> 00:37:49,790 where the rules on one side, some columns and sidebars 895 00:37:49,790 --> 00:37:52,940 on the other side, the occasional diagram. 896 00:37:52,940 --> 00:37:56,210 But that designer believed in, everything 897 00:37:56,210 --> 00:37:59,040 goes on the cards in some form. 898 00:37:59,040 --> 00:37:59,914 Everything's there. 899 00:37:59,914 --> 00:38:01,580 You can play the game without the rules, 900 00:38:01,580 --> 00:38:03,686 unless you have a really good memory. 901 00:38:03,686 --> 00:38:08,056 AUDIENCE: I mean, the thing is, you need to use expansions. 902 00:38:08,056 --> 00:38:12,199 And you can introduce expansions, 903 00:38:12,199 --> 00:38:14,490 and you don't need to read the rules in the expansions. 904 00:38:14,490 --> 00:38:16,560 And they'll introduce a whole bunch of iconography, 905 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,096 and you'll look at it, I'm like, oh, I 906 00:38:18,096 --> 00:38:19,179 bet this is a [INAUDIBLE]. 907 00:38:19,179 --> 00:38:21,364 And I'll bet that this is what card means, 908 00:38:21,364 --> 00:38:22,555 and it's usually right. 909 00:38:22,555 --> 00:38:23,180 PROFESSOR: Yep. 910 00:38:23,180 --> 00:38:25,190 Cool, so we're still doing good on time. 911 00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:27,010 [INAUDIBLE] 912 00:38:27,010 --> 00:38:30,460 Randomness, player choice, and then affordances. 913 00:38:30,460 --> 00:38:32,540 AUDIENCE: Well, the randomness came when we first 914 00:38:32,540 --> 00:38:36,464 dealt out the application cards and the minor flipping cards. 915 00:38:36,464 --> 00:38:39,416 There's the [INAUDIBLE]. 916 00:38:39,416 --> 00:38:44,024 [INAUDIBLE] we deal out seven to eac player, for each. 917 00:38:44,024 --> 00:38:47,433 So that's sort of where the randomness comes in. 918 00:38:47,433 --> 00:38:51,270 AUDIENCE: And it gets amplified, because these occupations 919 00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:53,188 and improvements seem like, you could just 920 00:38:53,188 --> 00:38:54,396 go creating things with them. 921 00:38:54,396 --> 00:38:56,804 He got something that let him [INAUDIBLE] 922 00:38:56,804 --> 00:38:58,970 throughout the board that he would continue to play. 923 00:38:58,970 --> 00:39:00,270 And then he had another thing that he 924 00:39:00,270 --> 00:39:02,370 could use that allowed him to double that amount. 925 00:39:02,370 --> 00:39:06,220 So it really feels set up for-- 926 00:39:06,220 --> 00:39:09,470 yeah, it seems like you can just make 927 00:39:09,470 --> 00:39:11,670 these crazy combinations that basically give you 928 00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:14,568 farming superpowers. 929 00:39:14,568 --> 00:39:18,509 AUDIENCE: I forgot about that part [INAUDIBLE]. 930 00:39:18,509 --> 00:39:20,050 PROFESSOR: What was it like choosing? 931 00:39:20,050 --> 00:39:22,270 How did you decide what to choose, when to choose? 932 00:39:22,270 --> 00:39:24,200 Did you get far enough? 933 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,230 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 934 00:39:25,230 --> 00:39:28,010 In the beginning, I had no idea what I was doing and why I won. 935 00:39:28,010 --> 00:39:30,680 But as we got through, I started to get a sense of it. 936 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,332 And now, I'm finding it easier to think about, OK, I'm going 937 00:39:34,332 --> 00:39:35,910 to need wood to build a room. 938 00:39:35,910 --> 00:39:40,180 I'm going to need food, because the harvest is coming up. 939 00:39:40,180 --> 00:39:42,097 But at the same time, I feel like I 940 00:39:42,097 --> 00:39:44,180 don't have a good enough sense of what's the deck. 941 00:39:44,180 --> 00:39:47,106 Because he was just pulling out things that I had no idea 942 00:39:47,106 --> 00:39:47,980 it could even happen. 943 00:39:47,980 --> 00:39:49,480 And then like, oh, wow. 944 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,325 OK, that changes a lot. 945 00:39:51,325 --> 00:39:52,950 PROFESSOR: So what's the choice for him 946 00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:54,259 is random situation for you. 947 00:39:54,259 --> 00:39:55,800 You just have no clue that might even 948 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,840 pop up, because you don't have that information, right? 949 00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:58,465 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 950 00:40:01,090 --> 00:40:03,600 So I think it would take a while to get a good sense 951 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,590 and fully understand what's happening. 952 00:40:06,590 --> 00:40:11,295 But I could already plan what I'm trying to do on my end. 953 00:40:11,295 --> 00:40:12,795 PROFESSOR: Can you talk a little bit 954 00:40:12,795 --> 00:40:14,149 about the affordances of it? 955 00:40:14,149 --> 00:40:16,690 Tactile feel, how did it feel when you were playing the game? 956 00:40:20,690 --> 00:40:27,450 AUDIENCE: I like the board setup [INAUDIBLE] know that either 957 00:40:27,450 --> 00:40:28,428 [INAUDIBLE]. 958 00:40:35,056 --> 00:40:38,985 And the [INAUDIBLE], the [INAUDIBLE] shapes, 959 00:40:38,985 --> 00:40:40,960 [INAUDIBLE]. 960 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,956 In terms of the resources, it felt weird, 961 00:40:42,956 --> 00:40:46,790 because they were all either little circles or cubes. 962 00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:50,220 And you just have to remember what the colors mean. 963 00:40:50,220 --> 00:40:53,650 But then again, they're also [INAUDIBLE]. 964 00:40:53,650 --> 00:40:57,080 The little pictures on the common area 965 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,550 that tells you what they are whenever you [INAUDIBLE]. 966 00:40:59,550 --> 00:41:02,690 AUDIENCE: Yeah, and there's this interesting thing where 967 00:41:02,690 --> 00:41:06,190 every round, if a resource hasn't been taken, 968 00:41:06,190 --> 00:41:08,566 then it increases. 969 00:41:08,566 --> 00:41:10,690 And now let's say there's three woods sitting here. 970 00:41:10,690 --> 00:41:13,590 The next round, there'll be six, the round after, nine. 971 00:41:13,590 --> 00:41:15,374 And so on, and it keeps building. 972 00:41:15,374 --> 00:41:17,665 And so to make it easy to remember that, what they have 973 00:41:17,665 --> 00:41:20,100 you do is they have you put it on these little squares 974 00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:23,126 to start out with, so you can know what you just added. 975 00:41:23,126 --> 00:41:24,979 And then there's an arrow pointing 976 00:41:24,979 --> 00:41:26,520 into this little bucket, so you know, 977 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,646 OK, place it here to set up the round, put it into the bucket 978 00:41:29,646 --> 00:41:31,430 so that everything's there. 979 00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:34,430 And I feel like it'd be pretty easy to lose track, like, 980 00:41:34,430 --> 00:41:37,040 oh, have we added wood here yet? 981 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,752 We kept forgetting to add sheep [INAUDIBLE]. 982 00:41:40,752 --> 00:41:41,960 PROFESSOR: So you're farming. 983 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,850 There's animals, and there's other things-- vegetation, 984 00:41:45,850 --> 00:41:48,190 stone, raw materials. 985 00:41:48,190 --> 00:41:49,660 It breaks them up, right? 986 00:41:49,660 --> 00:41:52,684 The squares are things that are animated-- they're living? 987 00:41:52,684 --> 00:41:53,350 AUDIENCE: Mm-hm. 988 00:41:53,350 --> 00:41:55,520 PROFESSOR: Circles are things that don't animate. 989 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,300 Is there some kind of affordance going on there? 990 00:41:58,300 --> 00:42:00,730 Does that seem useful to you, why those are 991 00:42:00,730 --> 00:42:01,960 being distinguished that way? 992 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:06,380 AUDIENCE: Yeah, because animals and resources 993 00:42:06,380 --> 00:42:07,390 behave very differently. 994 00:42:07,390 --> 00:42:09,280 Because these resources, you're usually 995 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,880 expending to either get improvement, or build houses, 996 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,150 things like that. 997 00:42:15,150 --> 00:42:19,030 Whereas animals, you have to manage a little bit more 998 00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:21,380 in terms of OK, I could kill this animal and eat it, 999 00:42:21,380 --> 00:42:22,800 or it'll give me points later. 1000 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,394 Or I can breed them, and I'll have 1001 00:42:24,394 --> 00:42:27,220 to keep track of spacing them here. 1002 00:42:27,220 --> 00:42:30,160 So there's a nice separation of what 1003 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,476 you're really doing with them. 1004 00:42:31,476 --> 00:42:33,428 PROFESSOR: Cool. 1005 00:42:33,428 --> 00:42:34,350 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 1006 00:42:34,350 --> 00:42:35,840 PROFESSOR: No, he's not in today. 1007 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:36,370 He'll be in tomorrow. 1008 00:42:36,370 --> 00:42:37,324 AUDIENCE: OK, thank you. 1009 00:42:37,324 --> 00:42:37,949 PROFESSOR: Yep. 1010 00:42:40,670 --> 00:42:41,210 Great. 1011 00:42:41,210 --> 00:42:43,310 Anything else you have to say about this one? 1012 00:42:43,310 --> 00:42:44,070 AUDIENCE: It's really fun. 1013 00:42:44,070 --> 00:42:46,445 I'll probably go buy it, because I want to play it again. 1014 00:42:46,445 --> 00:42:47,939 PROFESSOR: Why is it fun? 1015 00:42:47,939 --> 00:42:49,230 AUDIENCE: Probably the choices. 1016 00:42:49,230 --> 00:42:51,050 There's just so much going on, and it 1017 00:42:51,050 --> 00:42:54,350 feels like I could really make my own strategy. 1018 00:42:54,350 --> 00:42:55,100 And I don't know-- 1019 00:42:55,100 --> 00:42:57,410 I just had all these crazy plans of, OK, if he 1020 00:42:57,410 --> 00:42:59,044 [INAUDIBLE] a room, that means that I 1021 00:42:59,044 --> 00:43:01,085 can, which means I can build my family next turn, 1022 00:43:01,085 --> 00:43:02,751 which means that I'll have more actions. 1023 00:43:02,751 --> 00:43:05,690 And now I can do even more stuff, and get more resources. 1024 00:43:05,690 --> 00:43:08,660 PROFESSOR: So there's this complicated system going on-- 1025 00:43:08,660 --> 00:43:10,940 if I can try to remember it, understand 1026 00:43:10,940 --> 00:43:13,380 it-- a complex system going on that you're 1027 00:43:13,380 --> 00:43:14,880 going in the right direction, do you 1028 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,830 feel like you can kind of switch? 1029 00:43:16,830 --> 00:43:17,520 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1030 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,200 PROFESSOR: For people who played it multiple times, 1031 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:20,640 did you feel the same way? 1032 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,570 AUDIENCE: Yeah, because if you and your opponent 1033 00:43:23,570 --> 00:43:26,200 aren't choosing a choice, it gets juicier 1034 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:27,275 and juicier every round. 1035 00:43:27,275 --> 00:43:30,376 And so it's this game of chicken-- like, 1036 00:43:30,376 --> 00:43:31,750 are you going to go for the wood? 1037 00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:33,208 AUDIENCE: Yeah, there was one round 1038 00:43:33,208 --> 00:43:34,417 where I kept nine or 10 wood. 1039 00:43:34,417 --> 00:43:35,374 AUDIENCE: I don't know. 1040 00:43:35,374 --> 00:43:36,270 That was fun for me. 1041 00:43:36,270 --> 00:43:36,960 I like that. 1042 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,350 AUDIENCE: Just thinking back on what he said, 1043 00:43:39,350 --> 00:43:41,440 I actually like this game a lot, too, 1044 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,610 having a lot to do with all the different choices. 1045 00:43:43,610 --> 00:43:46,670 And there's a really complicated system 1046 00:43:46,670 --> 00:43:50,280 that it took a while to kind of understand. 1047 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,070 And I don't understand it completely yet, 1048 00:43:52,070 --> 00:43:55,810 but I'm getting a much better feel for it, you know. 1049 00:43:55,810 --> 00:43:57,840 And I think that's really appealing, 1050 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,320 not having something so absurdly complex that nobody 1051 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:02,960 can actually do it. 1052 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,409 But not having something really simple, either. 1053 00:44:06,409 --> 00:44:07,950 Just the sheer number of choices here 1054 00:44:07,950 --> 00:44:09,740 makes it really interesting to me. 1055 00:44:09,740 --> 00:44:11,634 Because I guess one of the things 1056 00:44:11,634 --> 00:44:13,175 about having not that many choices is 1057 00:44:13,175 --> 00:44:15,920 it almost feels like I could just make a computer play it, 1058 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,600 because there are only n possible outcomes 1059 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:20,470 of the eventual game. 1060 00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:24,450 But something like this, that's just unbeatable, really, 1061 00:44:24,450 --> 00:44:28,834 unless you actually make it a really smart player. 1062 00:44:28,834 --> 00:44:30,217 PROFESSOR: Great. 1063 00:44:30,217 --> 00:44:31,620 [INAUDIBLE] in the back. 1064 00:44:31,620 --> 00:44:34,020 Randomness, player choice, affordances based 1065 00:44:34,020 --> 00:44:36,339 on what you got to work with. 1066 00:44:36,339 --> 00:44:38,380 AUDIENCE: So there's definitely randomness in it, 1067 00:44:38,380 --> 00:44:41,859 because you draw your initial hand and every subsequent hand. 1068 00:44:41,859 --> 00:44:43,525 And a lot of times, you can put together 1069 00:44:43,525 --> 00:44:46,200 some ridiculous combination, [INAUDIBLE] 1070 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,434 would just get market, market, market, market, smithy. 1071 00:44:49,434 --> 00:44:50,850 PROFESSOR: What about [INAUDIBLE]? 1072 00:44:50,850 --> 00:44:51,290 AUDIENCE: What? 1073 00:44:51,290 --> 00:44:52,110 PROFESSOR: What about [INAUDIBLE]? 1074 00:44:52,110 --> 00:44:53,080 Why'd you do that? 1075 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,847 AUDIENCE: Well, so what he said-- right away, 1076 00:44:55,847 --> 00:44:56,430 you just draw. 1077 00:44:56,430 --> 00:44:58,471 And so what you can do is buy these action cards. 1078 00:44:58,471 --> 00:45:00,920 And with these action cards, you can get free moves. 1079 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,395 And the market-- I think it's the best one, because you 1080 00:45:03,395 --> 00:45:07,355 get an action, a buy, a coin, and something else, whatever. 1081 00:45:07,355 --> 00:45:09,995 And so what I would do is I'd play the market one, 1082 00:45:09,995 --> 00:45:10,764 then he'd draw. 1083 00:45:10,764 --> 00:45:12,305 So I'd play the market one, I'd draw. 1084 00:45:12,305 --> 00:45:13,790 And then I'd draw market, I'd play market, 1085 00:45:13,790 --> 00:45:15,275 and then I'd draw, and then draw market. 1086 00:45:15,275 --> 00:45:15,770 And then I'd play market. 1087 00:45:15,770 --> 00:45:16,329 [LAUGHING] 1088 00:45:16,329 --> 00:45:18,245 And then when I'd draw, I would draw a smithy. 1089 00:45:18,245 --> 00:45:20,169 And then you could draw two more cards, 1090 00:45:20,169 --> 00:45:21,710 and I would just draw two more cards. 1091 00:45:21,710 --> 00:45:25,422 And I'd be sitting here with 15 coins, or 20 coins, 1092 00:45:25,422 --> 00:45:27,650 and I can do literally whatever I want. 1093 00:45:27,650 --> 00:45:30,130 I can buy it however many times I want with however 1094 00:45:30,130 --> 00:45:33,772 much money I want, [INAUDIBLE]. 1095 00:45:33,772 --> 00:45:35,697 AUDIENCE: So yeah, there are definitely 1096 00:45:35,697 --> 00:45:37,280 some really powerful combinations that 1097 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:38,404 plays with the luck factor. 1098 00:45:38,404 --> 00:45:42,180 But at the same time, it feels there's 1099 00:45:42,180 --> 00:45:43,660 a lot of skill in the game. 1100 00:45:43,660 --> 00:45:48,480 It does also feel like if I played it 10, 15 times, 1101 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,910 I would have a very good sense of what to do, 1102 00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:55,680 and the skill would start to go away. 1103 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,260 Like if I played it 10 or 15 times, and everyone else did, 1104 00:45:59,260 --> 00:46:02,400 I feel like we would be always much better at it. 1105 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,710 And there would be a developed strategy, or maybe 1106 00:46:04,710 --> 00:46:06,610 two strategies, and counter-strategies, 1107 00:46:06,610 --> 00:46:09,190 something along those lines. 1108 00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:11,812 So they were saying it feels like infinite possibilities, 1109 00:46:11,812 --> 00:46:13,980 only it didn't feel like infinite possibility. 1110 00:46:13,980 --> 00:46:15,285 PROFESSOR: So there are affordances in the game that 1111 00:46:15,285 --> 00:46:16,384 can avoid that. 1112 00:46:16,384 --> 00:46:17,508 What do you think they are? 1113 00:46:17,508 --> 00:46:23,280 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] There are a million cards. 1114 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,510 PROFESSOR: Yeah, so that's the basic set. 1115 00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:28,138 How many cards were in the basic set? 1116 00:46:28,138 --> 00:46:29,340 AUDIENCE: 500, [INAUDIBLE]. 1117 00:46:29,340 --> 00:46:32,380 Although I don't know how many [INAUDIBLE] that actually 1118 00:46:32,380 --> 00:46:39,380 change [INAUDIBLE] 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 1119 00:46:39,380 --> 00:46:41,273 14, 15, 16, 17-- lots. 1120 00:46:41,273 --> 00:46:42,540 PROFESSOR: Lots, yeah. 1121 00:46:42,540 --> 00:46:43,185 [LAUGHING] 1122 00:46:43,185 --> 00:46:45,030 AUDIENCE: OK, so that should change it up, I guess. 1123 00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:45,410 PROFESSOR: Possibly. 1124 00:46:45,410 --> 00:46:47,400 I mean, still, your inexperienced players 1125 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:48,674 will say that exact same. 1126 00:46:48,674 --> 00:46:51,090 And maybe those expansions-- you can bring an expansion in 1127 00:46:51,090 --> 00:46:52,948 and change some things up. 1128 00:46:55,710 --> 00:46:56,820 I don't know. 1129 00:46:56,820 --> 00:46:58,685 Anybody else who's played Dominion a lot-- 1130 00:46:58,685 --> 00:47:01,580 have there been strategies that you've seen come and go, 1131 00:47:01,580 --> 00:47:02,630 like there is in Magic? 1132 00:47:02,630 --> 00:47:04,214 AUDIENCE: I mean, it entirely depends 1133 00:47:04,214 --> 00:47:05,690 what's out on the board. 1134 00:47:05,690 --> 00:47:07,620 PROFESSOR: Yeah, exactly. 1135 00:47:07,620 --> 00:47:10,906 AUDIENCE: Is there [INAUDIBLE] engine and still 1136 00:47:10,906 --> 00:47:12,690 have the money to buy things? 1137 00:47:12,690 --> 00:47:16,504 Or is there just really interesting action, 1138 00:47:16,504 --> 00:47:19,260 or the other cards [INAUDIBLE] tiny deck. 1139 00:47:19,260 --> 00:47:21,232 Or are there no specific [INAUDIBLE]? 1140 00:47:21,232 --> 00:47:23,550 And that changes each time you play 1141 00:47:23,550 --> 00:47:25,377 depending on how you set it up. 1142 00:47:25,377 --> 00:47:28,080 AUDIENCE: So there's a related game called Ascension, 1143 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,409 wish I pretty much prefer more, but probably just 1144 00:47:30,409 --> 00:47:32,700 because I've played it more, and that was my first one. 1145 00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:34,366 It's really interesting, because instead 1146 00:47:34,366 --> 00:47:36,910 of at the beginning, of Dominion, 1147 00:47:36,910 --> 00:47:41,661 you randomly select a couple different tiles, basically. 1148 00:47:41,661 --> 00:47:45,090 In Ascension, you actually just have a really, really big deck, 1149 00:47:45,090 --> 00:47:46,135 and you shuffle that. 1150 00:47:46,135 --> 00:47:50,170 And you deal out just hold 'em style, just stick 1151 00:47:50,170 --> 00:47:51,970 cards across the board. 1152 00:47:51,970 --> 00:47:53,710 And then you take turns just being 1153 00:47:53,710 --> 00:47:55,740 able to grab something from the middle 1154 00:47:55,740 --> 00:47:58,620 and then replace that [INAUDIBLE]. 1155 00:47:58,620 --> 00:48:01,140 So I feel like it makes it a lot more interesting, 1156 00:48:01,140 --> 00:48:05,580 because it's much less predictable. 1157 00:48:05,580 --> 00:48:08,460 At any point in the game, something amazing or something 1158 00:48:08,460 --> 00:48:09,750 crappy could flip. 1159 00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:12,280 Rather than you know that you will always be able to buy, 1160 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,930 until the pile runs out of a different kind 1161 00:48:15,930 --> 00:48:18,466 of card or something like that. 1162 00:48:18,466 --> 00:48:20,257 So that's something interesting. 1163 00:48:20,257 --> 00:48:21,840 PROFESSOR: Anything else you guys want 1164 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:23,048 to say about the affordances? 1165 00:48:23,048 --> 00:48:25,690 Like the rules or how the cards are laid out? 1166 00:48:25,690 --> 00:48:28,800 Anything that you got out of that? 1167 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,000 AUDIENCE: I guess it's kind of a bigger game. 1168 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,390 So the rules were incredibly complicated at parts. 1169 00:48:34,390 --> 00:48:36,396 But that being said, we did figure out, 1170 00:48:36,396 --> 00:48:38,020 I had to ask him a couple of questions. 1171 00:48:38,020 --> 00:48:40,937 But after that got settled, I think we all 1172 00:48:40,937 --> 00:48:42,020 understood it pretty well. 1173 00:48:42,020 --> 00:48:43,990 PROFESSOR: That one's a great example of look 1174 00:48:43,990 --> 00:48:45,841 at all these rules, oh wait, the game's 1175 00:48:45,841 --> 00:48:47,340 actually [INAUDIBLE] simple to play. 1176 00:48:47,340 --> 00:48:48,884 AUDIENCE: Yeah, if we had someone 1177 00:48:48,884 --> 00:48:50,300 who knew how to play sitting here, 1178 00:48:50,300 --> 00:48:52,350 we could have probably started 10 minutes earlier. 1179 00:48:52,350 --> 00:48:52,680 PROFESSOR: Could they have come up 1180 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,554 with a different way of writing those things, 1181 00:48:54,554 --> 00:48:57,357 or laying them out, or presenting them in a way that 1182 00:48:57,357 --> 00:48:58,440 might have helped you out? 1183 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,240 I don't know. 1184 00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:00,970 I bet. 1185 00:49:04,246 --> 00:49:05,740 Wait, [INAUDIBLE] question there? 1186 00:49:05,740 --> 00:49:07,354 Oh, one of the questions for you guys, 1187 00:49:07,354 --> 00:49:08,770 why do you think that was included 1188 00:49:08,770 --> 00:49:11,130 in the list of these other games? 1189 00:49:11,130 --> 00:49:13,630 What about that game is similar to some of these other games 1190 00:49:13,630 --> 00:49:14,255 that you heard? 1191 00:49:17,692 --> 00:49:20,020 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 1192 00:49:20,020 --> 00:49:21,870 PROFESSOR: No, but that's an interesting-- 1193 00:49:21,870 --> 00:49:22,830 I just noticed that coming out. 1194 00:49:22,830 --> 00:49:24,496 That's why I wanted to talk about rules. 1195 00:49:24,496 --> 00:49:25,020 That's all. 1196 00:49:25,020 --> 00:49:28,275 AUDIENCE: Definitely the "luck versus skill" dynamic, 1197 00:49:28,275 --> 00:49:31,830 I think, is pretty key in terms of, like you said, 1198 00:49:31,830 --> 00:49:33,294 there's strings of luck. 1199 00:49:33,294 --> 00:49:35,734 But I chose [INAUDIBLE] markets, right? 1200 00:49:35,734 --> 00:49:37,686 So I was putting [INAUDIBLE] together, 1201 00:49:37,686 --> 00:49:39,150 and that's definitely skill. 1202 00:49:39,150 --> 00:49:42,005 So I think the mix is exactly [INAUDIBLE]. 1203 00:49:42,005 --> 00:49:45,070 PROFESSOR: There's a depletion mechanic in that one, right? 1204 00:49:45,070 --> 00:49:46,725 Did you read how you end the game? 1205 00:49:46,725 --> 00:49:47,350 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1206 00:49:47,350 --> 00:49:49,264 So we did run out of market-- we never-- we 1207 00:49:49,264 --> 00:49:49,635 didn't have time to finish. 1208 00:49:49,635 --> 00:49:50,914 We did run out of market. 1209 00:49:50,914 --> 00:49:51,580 PROFESSOR: Yeah. 1210 00:49:51,580 --> 00:49:53,190 And I think it's once you run out 1211 00:49:53,190 --> 00:49:55,764 of a couple of different kinds of cards, then it ends, right? 1212 00:49:55,764 --> 00:50:01,550 AUDIENCE: Re-tile before the [INAUDIBLE] card. 1213 00:50:01,550 --> 00:50:02,640 [INAUDIBLE] 1214 00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,806 PROFESSOR: So you have to always have some kind of-- 1215 00:50:04,806 --> 00:50:06,530 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 1216 00:50:06,530 --> 00:50:08,000 AUDIENCE: No, [INAUDIBLE]. 1217 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:08,980 That's not true. 1218 00:50:08,980 --> 00:50:10,075 That's [INAUDIBLE]. 1219 00:50:10,075 --> 00:50:10,950 AUDIENCE: Oh, really? 1220 00:50:10,950 --> 00:50:11,575 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1221 00:50:13,584 --> 00:50:15,000 PROFESSOR: So all these games have 1222 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,250 some kind of Solitaire-ness to them, 1223 00:50:17,250 --> 00:50:19,260 where you can be playing on your own. 1224 00:50:19,260 --> 00:50:22,020 But even if there's like a Solitaire-like work replacement 1225 00:50:22,020 --> 00:50:23,850 style game, there's something that you're 1226 00:50:23,850 --> 00:50:25,620 doing is interacting with the other player 1227 00:50:25,620 --> 00:50:30,190 and preventing them from moving ahead. 1228 00:50:30,190 --> 00:50:32,640 OK, so it is almost 3 o'clock. 1229 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:34,890 You can either continue playing your game 1230 00:50:34,890 --> 00:50:38,760 or break into your teams and work on your projects. 1231 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:39,730 It's your choice. 1232 00:50:39,730 --> 00:50:43,740 I'm going to go grab all the kits. 1233 00:50:43,740 --> 00:50:45,858 We've got one person-- are you one a team? 1234 00:50:45,858 --> 00:50:46,570 AUDIENCE: I'm not on a team. 1235 00:50:46,570 --> 00:50:47,611 PROFESSOR: Not on a team. 1236 00:50:47,611 --> 00:50:50,400 So we've got one person joined a team. 1237 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,386 We've got a three-person team? 1238 00:50:52,386 --> 00:50:53,599 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 1239 00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:55,890 PROFESSOR: For a two-player game or a four-player game? 1240 00:50:55,890 --> 00:50:56,570 AUDIENCE: Two to four. 1241 00:50:56,570 --> 00:50:57,528 PROFESSOR: Two to four? 1242 00:50:57,528 --> 00:50:59,114 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 1243 00:50:59,114 --> 00:51:00,949 PROFESSOR: OK, so I would recommend 1244 00:51:00,949 --> 00:51:02,490 hang out with them for the last hour. 1245 00:51:02,490 --> 00:51:04,070 And then maybe even scrounging around 1246 00:51:04,070 --> 00:51:05,160 to find a team to go onto. 1247 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,607 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 1248 00:51:08,607 --> 00:51:09,565 PROFESSOR: What's that? 1249 00:51:09,565 --> 00:51:12,270 The other teams are four-two people? 1250 00:51:12,270 --> 00:51:13,603 You can have a five-person team. 1251 00:51:13,603 --> 00:51:14,490 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 1252 00:51:14,490 --> 00:51:19,755 PROFESSOR: [INAUDIBLE] check out what [INAUDIBLE] Yeah. 1253 00:51:19,755 --> 00:51:23,732 Yeah, not requiring you to be [INAUDIBLE].