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PROFESSOR: So today in class,
we've got a guest lecturer.

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Scott Osterweil from the MIT
Education Arcade at MIT Game

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Lab's going to be talking
to us about learning

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and play in games to put us
in the mindset for the games

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that you're making that
feel like they might

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be educational or more
about awareness, to take

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some ideas from him on that.

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Then after that, we're
going to do a play test.

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So this is your
first opportunity

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to give staff and clients,
if our clients show up,

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the experience of
playing your games

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and giving you some feedback
on the low-fidelity prototypes

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that you have right now.

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And again, they could be
digital or non digital.

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That's going to be
pretty quick today.

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We don't need everybody to
play everybody else's games,

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if you don't like.

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So what we're going have
you do is set up your games.

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I expect if they're
paper, you probably only

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have one copy of your game
running at any one time.

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So just make sure
that everyone who's

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on the team who is not playing
is observing and taking notes.

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If you do have digital
and would like to set up

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multiple stations, please do.

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It's always helpful.

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Our next play test
is November 5.

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We're having the
class from 21W032,

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the Introduction to
Digital Media class

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taught by Ed Barrett.

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They'll be coming in at the
end of the day at about 3:00

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PM to test your digital games.

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So on November 5, it's
a good opportunity

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for a first playable
version of your digital game

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to get tested by people
who are not in the class.

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And then after play test today,
we'll take a quick break.

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And then we'll do presentations
where each team will come up

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here, and you've basically
got the floor for two minutes.

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We want to hear what is the
state your game right now,

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basically referring back
to your product backlog.

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What are the features
that are planned?

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What did you test today?

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What does your build
look like today,

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your low-fidelity
prototype look like today?

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And just let us
know how it's going.

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We're going to ask for a number
of these short two-minute

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presentations throughout
the rest of the semester.

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And those dates are in the
handout for project four.

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And I'll be making mention
of them as we go along.

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And then the remainder of
class, you've got about hour

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to an hour and a half at the
end of class to work in class.

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I'm going to let you
know how much time you're

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going to have time for working
in class for future days.

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This Wednesday, you'll probably
have about two full hours

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in class to work, looking at
what our lecture schedule looks

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like.

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So that's that.

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Any questions about
what we're doing today?

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Any questions
about project four?

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OK.

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I'm going to hand
it off to Scott.

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SCOTT OSTERWEIL:
[INAUDIBLE], this

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is the [INAUDIBLE] switch
you were talking about?

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PROFESSOR: Yep, I'm
switching it over right now.

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SCOTT OSTERWEIL: Well,
it's nice to see you all.

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I see at least two faces
from-- three from classes

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that I taught, so forgive
me for those of you who may

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have heard some of this before.

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So this was sort of
teed up as if I'm

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going to talk to
you about education,

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but I'm actually not going to
talk to you about education.

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I'm going to talk to you
about something else entirely.

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Maybe we'll get around
to education by the time

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we're done.

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But what I want you to do right
now-- hang on one second--

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is turn to the
person next to you

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and play a quick
round of tic-tac-toe.

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So I do like doing
this, even though it's

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hard to get people to stop.

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It's actually kind
of interesting to me.

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When I've done this with an
audience of about 300 people,

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it takes a long time to
corral everybody back,

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which is really remarkable.

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If you weren't
playing a game, I hope

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you were at least looking
around and noticing

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that the room got
kind of loud and there

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was a fair amount of laughter,
and noise, and animation,

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which is really
remarkable when you

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consider the fact that
tic-tac-toe is a stupid game.

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That by age eight,
you had figured out

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that there was no point
in playing tic-tac-toe

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because you almost
always play it to a draw.

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I'm always amazed when I ask a
bunch of adults, which you are,

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to play tic-tac-toe,
how into it they get.

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And I think in the end,
it's the thing I really want

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to talk about, which is play.

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I know you guys have been
in a class studying games.

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Have you talked much
about the word play?

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Good.

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We are all in the
business of making games,

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and yet we don't stop
much to think about play.

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But play is not something that
was invented with the Atari.

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People have been playing
games for a long time.

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The oldest known game
implements are older

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than the oldest known writing.

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I don't know how many
of you know art history,

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but this is the
late 16th century

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in what's now Belgium,
the low countries--

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Flanders in those days.

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The great genre
painter Pieter Bruegel,

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who did a painting called
Children's Games, in which he

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documented over 100
games that scholars have

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been able to identify
as real games that

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were played at that time.

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And if you think about
it, at that point

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there wasn't really much of
a thing called childhood.

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That by the age of 11
or 12, you were probably

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working in the family
business, whatever it was.

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You were expected to take
on adult responsibilities.

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And yet clearly, play was still
a huge part of their lives.

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Now, this is a
fanciful painting.

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He was not trying to
be realistic here.

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But the point was play was a
huge part of their lives then.

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So we know that they
were playing back

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in the 16th century.

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We know they were
playing 6,000 years ago.

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We actually know that
our ancestors played too,

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that other vertebrates play.

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In fact, Edwin Wilson has sort
of argued that ants play too,

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but let's just stick to
vertebrates for a minute.

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When mountain goats play--
there's a alpine mountain

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goat-- they play
by-- and by the way,

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let me just say quickly
from my definition,

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play is the stuff
you do when you don't

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have to do something else.

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You don't have to get food.

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You don't have to evade
capture, or protect your young,

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or procreate, or find shelter.

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When you don't have to do all
that stuff-- some of which

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you do playfully, by
the way-- but when

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you don't have to do that
stuff and you're on your own,

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you play.

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And so mountain goats
play by actually chasing

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each other around the mountains
and jumping from cliff

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to cliff, ledge to ledge.

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And they do it in
spite of the fact

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that mountain goats
will occasionally

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fall to their deaths.

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And if we know anything
about evolution,

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we know the behaviors that lead
to the deaths of individuals

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are behaviors that are
more likely to die out,

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unless there is some
advantage to the behavior that

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outweighs the risk.

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And it would easy
to assume from this

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that mountain goats
are learning how

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to do the things they need
to do, like jump and land

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on precarious ledges.

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That that's what they're
learning through their play.

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We might extend
that thinking when

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we look at an image like this.

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By the way, you can find images
like this on the internet.

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Anyway, so we've all seen
images of cats or puppies

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fighting, playing at games that
look like fighting or hunting.

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And if we take that example
and the example of the mountain

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goats, it's easy to conclude
that play is about rote memory.

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It's about learning to do
things through repetition.

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But they've done a study
where they prevented kittens

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from the opportunity to
play while they grow up,

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play with other cats.

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And it turns out they learn
how to hunt just fine.

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What they don't
know how to do is

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how to interact with
other cats or make

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00:08:20,172 --> 00:08:21,380
other more complex decisions.

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What I'm going to argue
is play is about something

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far more involved that just sort
of rote memory and repetition.

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Last animal example.

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They did a study where they
gave an otter a fish every time

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it swam through a hoop.

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Now, if you think about
what an otter's needs are,

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that otter was rich
beyond its wildest dreams.

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Everything it needed
was right there just

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by swimming through the hoop.

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So did the otter retire as we
might do if all our needs were

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00:08:51,587 --> 00:08:52,170
taken care of?

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No, it started swimming
through the hoop upside down,

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00:08:54,470 --> 00:08:55,960
backwards.

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Playing with a hoop with
its way of exploring

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how the world worked.

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00:09:00,736 --> 00:09:02,610
The otters-- I assume
there's more than one--

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the otters knew that swimming
through a hoop got fish.

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They wanted to find out
what else it could do.

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And again, this is when
survival is no longer an issue.

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So play is really the way in
which we explore the world.

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Just looking at these
images of children,

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there are four different
continents here,

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four very different
kinds of games.

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But I'd argue the affect
is the same in all of them,

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and that what's going
on in all of them

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00:09:30,340 --> 00:09:34,710
is the same thing, that
the kids in these pictures

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are really constructing their
understanding of the world

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through play.

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What I want to argue is
that through play, we

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begin to build the kinds
of conceptual structures

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00:09:47,850 --> 00:09:50,910
that we are going to then
engage with more formally

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in other spheres of life.

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And I could argue that
it's only for children,

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00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,611
but I'm going to
argue further that it

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doesn't stop in childhood.

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But sticking with
childhood for just a moment

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00:10:01,635 --> 00:10:04,510
and using my own
personal example.

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00:10:04,510 --> 00:10:08,355
I loved playing with
blocks when I was a kid.

218
00:10:08,355 --> 00:10:09,730
And this is all
pre-kindergarten.

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00:10:09,730 --> 00:10:11,870
I can remember the
pleasure of discovering

220
00:10:11,870 --> 00:10:14,940
that two square blocks
were the same size as one

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00:10:14,940 --> 00:10:17,580
rectangular block, and
two rectangular blocks

222
00:10:17,580 --> 00:10:19,470
were the same size
as one big block.

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00:10:19,470 --> 00:10:22,590
And the kicker was that
that was equal to four

224
00:10:22,590 --> 00:10:25,580
of the little square blocks, and
that those relationships could

225
00:10:25,580 --> 00:10:27,236
then be replicated elsewhere.

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00:10:27,236 --> 00:10:29,360
That that was a pattern
that I could find elsewhere

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00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:30,120
in the world.

228
00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,980
And so pre-kindergarten
now, what I am really doing

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00:10:33,980 --> 00:10:40,640
is developing a primitive,
but I would say robust sense

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that math is the way we
actually model the world.

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00:10:43,380 --> 00:10:46,100
That we can actually model
the world mathematically.

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00:10:46,100 --> 00:10:49,330
Now obviously, as four-year-old,
me couldn't have said that.

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00:10:49,330 --> 00:10:52,900
Four-year-old me couldn't even
necessarily answer 2 plus 2

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00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:54,400
equals.

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00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,700
But four-year-old me knew
something far more robust.

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00:10:56,700 --> 00:10:59,640
I was starting to
really understand

237
00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,110
that the world could be
described mathematically,

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00:11:02,110 --> 00:11:04,529
and that that was why
I was primed to be

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00:11:04,529 --> 00:11:05,820
a relatively good math student.

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00:11:08,890 --> 00:11:12,557
The challenge, though, is that I
just played with blocks the way

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00:11:12,557 --> 00:11:13,640
I chose to play with them.

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00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:14,320
No one made me.

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00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,130
In fact, if you'd sat me
down and say play with blocks

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00:11:17,130 --> 00:11:20,150
and discover what you can about
numbers, I might have refused

245
00:11:20,150 --> 00:11:21,840
and age four.

246
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,830
Players' motivations are
entirely intrinsic and personal

247
00:11:24,830 --> 00:11:26,600
in all play.

248
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,749
You cannot make somebody play.

249
00:11:28,749 --> 00:11:31,040
I think it's helpful to think
about it as if there were

250
00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,300
four freedoms present in play.

251
00:11:34,300 --> 00:11:37,230
Freedom to experiment.

252
00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:38,990
I thought I had
revised the slides.

253
00:11:38,990 --> 00:11:40,240
I really sort of revised that.

254
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:45,617
I think it's better say freedom
to explore is the better word.

255
00:11:45,617 --> 00:11:47,200
But what I was doing
with those blocks

256
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,520
was seeing things about
the blocks that were not--

257
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,139
the package showed
pictures of things

258
00:11:51,139 --> 00:11:52,930
you could build with
the blocks, but that's

259
00:11:52,930 --> 00:11:54,120
not what I was doing.

260
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,160
I was sort of exploring
properties of the blocks

261
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,520
that no one was
telling me to look for.

262
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,470
Freedom to fail.

263
00:12:01,470 --> 00:12:03,830
If you played with
blocks, you probably

264
00:12:03,830 --> 00:12:05,850
built a tower that
eventually fell down,

265
00:12:05,850 --> 00:12:08,711
and you probably learned a lot
from the tower falling down.

266
00:12:08,711 --> 00:12:10,460
You probably, in fact,
persisted at trying

267
00:12:10,460 --> 00:12:11,585
to get the tower to stand up.

268
00:12:11,585 --> 00:12:13,920
And along the way, you were
learning all sorts of stuff

269
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,610
about mechanics and physics.

270
00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:19,160
Freedom of identity.

271
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,980
If you think about
doll play for a minute,

272
00:12:21,980 --> 00:12:26,290
a kid in the floor of
their room acting out

273
00:12:26,290 --> 00:12:29,760
conflict between two dolls,
or stuffed animals, or action

274
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,480
figures is really exploring all
the roles in their own family,

275
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,070
in their world.

276
00:12:35,070 --> 00:12:37,450
A kid who plays at Luke
Skywalker versus Darth

277
00:12:37,450 --> 00:12:40,280
Vader is really figuring
out what part of him

278
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,690
or herself is Luke
Skywalker and what part

279
00:12:42,690 --> 00:12:46,670
is Darth Vader, because we think
we have both of them in us.

280
00:12:46,670 --> 00:12:48,700
And that's what we
explore through play.

281
00:12:48,700 --> 00:12:52,620
In less than a week, on
Friday, a fair number of you

282
00:12:52,620 --> 00:12:55,970
are going to engage in identity
play at a fairly large scale,

283
00:12:55,970 --> 00:12:58,630
so it's not just
a childhood thing.

284
00:12:58,630 --> 00:13:02,400
I mean, I'm talking about
Halloween, obviously.

285
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,940
And anyone who's ever
played World of Warcraft

286
00:13:04,940 --> 00:13:09,780
or any number of games knows
that in fact, through games,

287
00:13:09,780 --> 00:13:12,530
we play with our
identity over time.

288
00:13:12,530 --> 00:13:15,230
Finally, freedom of
effort is the freedom

289
00:13:15,230 --> 00:13:18,460
to really play hard
or play relaxed.

290
00:13:18,460 --> 00:13:20,490
You cannot make
somebody play hard.

291
00:13:20,490 --> 00:13:23,030
And if you watched
the pattern of play,

292
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:25,230
people will play intensely.

293
00:13:25,230 --> 00:13:26,802
They will suddenly ease up.

294
00:13:26,802 --> 00:13:28,760
Again, stick to World of
Warcraft for a minute,

295
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:29,926
sometimes you want to grind.

296
00:13:29,926 --> 00:13:33,110
You just want to do the
mindless stuff for a while.

297
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:36,010
And sometimes you want to
enter into an intense battle.

298
00:13:36,010 --> 00:13:37,070
They both happen.

299
00:13:37,070 --> 00:13:39,179
So here's the challenge for us.

300
00:13:39,179 --> 00:13:40,720
The player's
motivations are entirely

301
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,670
intrinsic and personal,
as I've already said.

302
00:13:44,670 --> 00:13:47,500
And I'm also arguing
that obviously, learning

303
00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:48,930
is happening through play.

304
00:13:48,930 --> 00:13:50,690
But how do we channel
play into learning

305
00:13:50,690 --> 00:13:52,440
while still allowing
for its fundamentally

306
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,644
open-ended nature?

307
00:13:54,644 --> 00:13:56,060
So if you, as Rick
said, are going

308
00:13:56,060 --> 00:14:00,010
to be making games in
which you want to-- well,

309
00:14:00,010 --> 00:14:04,520
I hope you're thinking about
real learning rather than just

310
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:05,900
conveying information.

311
00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:07,300
And I'll get to
that in a minute.

312
00:14:07,300 --> 00:14:10,200
But whatever it is you're
doing, theoretically you

313
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,240
want to make a good
game, they still

314
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,842
have to have the
freedom to play.

315
00:14:14,842 --> 00:14:16,300
You don't have a
game without play.

316
00:14:16,300 --> 00:14:18,040
You can have something that
has the structure of a game

317
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:19,220
without play, but
it won't really

318
00:14:19,220 --> 00:14:20,770
be a game if
they're not playing.

319
00:14:20,770 --> 00:14:23,520
But anyway, so that's
where games come in.

320
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,520
That's how we can channel
learning sometimes

321
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:28,730
while still being open ended.

322
00:14:28,730 --> 00:14:32,215
And just to use the most absurd
example, think about golf.

323
00:14:32,215 --> 00:14:36,900
It was Bernard Suits who
originally used this example.

324
00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:39,220
But in golf, you're
hitting a very small ball

325
00:14:39,220 --> 00:14:41,770
with a very long stick.

326
00:14:41,770 --> 00:14:43,920
Anyone golf here?

327
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,850
Yeah, that's what the normal
percentage is in a class.

328
00:14:47,850 --> 00:14:48,895
But it's hard, right ?

329
00:14:48,895 --> 00:14:50,520
The first time you
swung the golf club,

330
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,330
you might have missed
the ball entirely, right?

331
00:14:53,330 --> 00:14:54,639
Yeah.

332
00:14:54,639 --> 00:14:56,930
Sometimes even when you start
connecting with the ball,

333
00:14:56,930 --> 00:14:58,540
it goes the wrong direction.

334
00:14:58,540 --> 00:15:00,421
It goes 10 feet, 20 feet.

335
00:15:00,421 --> 00:15:02,170
When you can finally
hit it some distance,

336
00:15:02,170 --> 00:15:04,550
it goes into the water,
it goes into the woods.

337
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:07,880
It costs $2.50 every
time you lose a ball.

338
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,390
If your goal, after all, is
to get the ball in the hole,

339
00:15:10,390 --> 00:15:12,723
why don't you just pick it
up, and walk to the other end

340
00:15:12,723 --> 00:15:13,860
of course, and drop it in?

341
00:15:13,860 --> 00:15:15,360
The golf game would
go much quicker.

342
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:16,640
You'd never lose a ball.

343
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,580
You have a lot more success.

344
00:15:19,580 --> 00:15:22,380
But no one chooses to
play golf that way.

345
00:15:22,380 --> 00:15:24,980
If you think about
it, people choose

346
00:15:24,980 --> 00:15:27,720
to play golf by moving
the ball to the hole

347
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:32,640
in the single
stupidest way possible.

348
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,540
And as Bernard Suits
said in this context,

349
00:15:34,540 --> 00:15:36,130
games are really
about overcoming

350
00:15:36,130 --> 00:15:38,200
unnecessary obstacles.

351
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,410
And unnecessary is critical
here because every game

352
00:15:41,410 --> 00:15:43,710
is, by definition, unnecessary.

353
00:15:43,710 --> 00:15:46,810
If you're really
playing, it's voluntary.

354
00:15:46,810 --> 00:15:48,470
It's not required.

355
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:50,490
Your survival does
not depend on it.

356
00:15:50,490 --> 00:15:53,274
So by definition, every
game is unnecessary,

357
00:15:53,274 --> 00:15:55,690
and therefore the obstacles
in every game are unnecessary.

358
00:15:55,690 --> 00:15:58,520
And the game is the
voluntary overcoming

359
00:15:58,520 --> 00:15:59,850
of unnecessary obstacles.

360
00:15:59,850 --> 00:16:01,450
So why do we do it?

361
00:16:01,450 --> 00:16:03,234
Why would we do all that?

362
00:16:03,234 --> 00:16:04,650
Well, in games we
willingly submit

363
00:16:04,650 --> 00:16:06,700
to arbitrary rules
and structures

364
00:16:06,700 --> 00:16:09,740
in pursuit of mastery because
that's what's going on in golf.

365
00:16:09,740 --> 00:16:10,370
Even in golf.

366
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,140
You think it's hard, and yet
even though you missed the golf

367
00:16:17,140 --> 00:16:19,515
ball the first time, you
think, I think I can hit it.

368
00:16:19,515 --> 00:16:20,890
And then eventually
you do hit it

369
00:16:20,890 --> 00:16:22,598
and you say, I think
I can hit it further

370
00:16:22,598 --> 00:16:24,440
and I think I can
hit it straighter.

371
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,739
And in fact, the game
gives you feedback.

372
00:16:26,739 --> 00:16:28,530
The game is continually
giving you feedback

373
00:16:28,530 --> 00:16:31,780
as to how you're doing.

374
00:16:31,780 --> 00:16:36,170
No matter how
ridiculously hard golf is,

375
00:16:36,170 --> 00:16:38,555
you set for yourself
proximal goals.

376
00:16:38,555 --> 00:16:41,370
I'm going to hit a little
straighter, a little further.

377
00:16:41,370 --> 00:16:43,200
And the game lets you do that.

378
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:44,720
No one runs out
into the golf course

379
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,270
and says, stop, you didn't
hit the ball far enough,

380
00:16:48,270 --> 00:16:52,735
or yells at you and says, hit
it further, further, right?

381
00:16:52,735 --> 00:16:54,920
They let you
playfully explore what

382
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:56,530
you can do with that golf ball.

383
00:16:56,530 --> 00:16:58,290
And you keep saying
I'm getting better,

384
00:16:58,290 --> 00:17:00,230
and so you keep playing golf.

385
00:17:00,230 --> 00:17:03,370
And that's true with every game.

386
00:17:03,370 --> 00:17:06,290
And I'll talk about a couple
other examples going forward

387
00:17:06,290 --> 00:17:07,140
about that.

388
00:17:07,140 --> 00:17:10,990
So games give you proximal goals
which seem worth achieving,

389
00:17:10,990 --> 00:17:13,250
but only if you can
continue to be playful.

390
00:17:13,250 --> 00:17:15,060
And that's I think
the thing we sometimes

391
00:17:15,060 --> 00:17:18,200
lose sight of when we're making
games is the playfulness.

392
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:19,789
We remember the goal.

393
00:17:19,789 --> 00:17:21,830
We remember that there's
an outcome that we want.

394
00:17:21,830 --> 00:17:25,160
And we remember that we want the
player to get to that outcome.

395
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,980
But we forget about
playfulness, which means we

396
00:17:27,980 --> 00:17:29,510
either make a game
that's too easy.

397
00:17:29,510 --> 00:17:31,295
We lead them right
to the outcome.

398
00:17:31,295 --> 00:17:33,920
That's like picking up the ball
, and walking to the other end,

399
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:35,086
and dropping it in the hole.

400
00:17:35,086 --> 00:17:37,290
And a lot of games do that.

401
00:17:37,290 --> 00:17:41,399
Or we just figure I'm going
to make it really hard.

402
00:17:41,399 --> 00:17:43,190
I don't care whether
they enjoy themselves.

403
00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:44,669
They're going to get there.

404
00:17:44,669 --> 00:17:45,710
And of course they don't.

405
00:17:45,710 --> 00:17:46,270
They quit.

406
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,710
It's one thing to
define a challenge.

407
00:17:55,710 --> 00:17:57,130
That's important.

408
00:17:57,130 --> 00:18:00,030
The real art in it is
defining a proximal challenge,

409
00:18:00,030 --> 00:18:01,244
one that people can reach.

410
00:18:01,244 --> 00:18:03,410
And I would argue that if
you're talking about games

411
00:18:03,410 --> 00:18:05,450
in which you want to
convey information

412
00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:08,480
or you want people to learn
something, all of that

413
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:09,212
has to hold true.

414
00:18:09,212 --> 00:18:10,920
And in fact, the other
thing I'm arguing,

415
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,260
obviously, is that at in every
game, people are learning.

416
00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:14,801
That the reason you
like playing golf

417
00:18:14,801 --> 00:18:16,530
is because you're learning.

418
00:18:16,530 --> 00:18:19,110
And Raph Koster sets
this out really well

419
00:18:19,110 --> 00:18:21,650
in the Theory of Fun,
the book A Theory of Fun.

420
00:18:21,650 --> 00:18:23,590
But that basically, the
fundamental pleasure

421
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:25,690
of gameplay is
learning, is learning

422
00:18:25,690 --> 00:18:28,706
to master the game,
which means in a sense,

423
00:18:28,706 --> 00:18:30,080
if you're doing
a game and you've

424
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:35,180
got some goal for some learning
to happen, all you've got to do

425
00:18:35,180 --> 00:18:37,320
is make that learning
interesting and worth

426
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:43,410
achieving by giving people
the right set of goals

427
00:18:43,410 --> 00:18:46,190
to work toward it.

428
00:18:46,190 --> 00:18:48,880
So I keep talking kind of
interchangeably between play

429
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:49,470
and learning.

430
00:18:49,470 --> 00:18:54,120
And yet the four freedoms
of play, which I'm arguing

431
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:56,290
are the four
freedoms of learning,

432
00:18:56,290 --> 00:18:58,567
are not the four
freedoms of school.

433
00:18:58,567 --> 00:19:01,150
If you think about school, and
I'm not talking about MIT right

434
00:19:01,150 --> 00:19:04,560
now, if you think about your
own high school experience--

435
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,401
high school is particularly
bad-- what kind of freedom

436
00:19:08,401 --> 00:19:08,900
is there?

437
00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:09,800
Freedom to fail?

438
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,150
Not so much.

439
00:19:11,150 --> 00:19:12,030
Freedom to explore?

440
00:19:12,030 --> 00:19:17,344
Well, I mean, even a
high school science lab,

441
00:19:17,344 --> 00:19:19,760
everyone is expecting to get
the same results by following

442
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,690
the exact same procedure, right?

443
00:19:22,690 --> 00:19:26,201
And that's the most experimental
you ever get in school.

444
00:19:26,201 --> 00:19:28,450
Certainly no freedom of
effort or freedom of identity.

445
00:19:28,450 --> 00:19:29,930
You sit in your
same seat every day

446
00:19:29,930 --> 00:19:34,482
and you're expected to
behave the exact same way.

447
00:19:34,482 --> 00:19:36,190
And you're expected
to work equally hard.

448
00:19:36,190 --> 00:19:40,460
You can't come in and say I
don't feel like working today.

449
00:19:40,460 --> 00:19:42,390
So there's very
little play in school,

450
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:43,980
at least as it's
currently embodied.

451
00:19:43,980 --> 00:19:45,940
And this is why I
mention school here,

452
00:19:45,940 --> 00:19:49,985
is because I think
one of the challenges

453
00:19:49,985 --> 00:19:52,360
if you're an MIT student is
that you were probably pretty

454
00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:54,940
good at the game of school.

455
00:19:54,940 --> 00:19:57,346
You probably did what
was required of you.

456
00:19:57,346 --> 00:20:00,600
You probably didn't
necessarily recognize

457
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,100
that doing the things that
school required of you

458
00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:04,835
is not when you were
actually learning,

459
00:20:04,835 --> 00:20:06,670
that that was just
playing the game.

460
00:20:06,670 --> 00:20:09,725
That the learning was
more self-motivated

461
00:20:09,725 --> 00:20:11,500
and more self-directed.

462
00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:13,920
And so frequently people,
when they turn around

463
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,500
and try to make anything
to do with learning,

464
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:20,130
whether it's a game, or write
a book, or create a curriculum,

465
00:20:20,130 --> 00:20:23,880
they replicate everything
that's bad about school.

466
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,010
And the reason I don't like to
say I make educational games

467
00:20:28,010 --> 00:20:30,175
is because when you think
of educational games,

468
00:20:30,175 --> 00:20:32,300
you think of all the bad
games that have replicated

469
00:20:32,300 --> 00:20:34,220
what's bad about school.

470
00:20:34,220 --> 00:20:38,070
Games that have largely taken
the dead carcass of a game

471
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:41,090
and stuffed it full
of academic content.

472
00:20:41,090 --> 00:20:44,450
So you're going
to shoot at aliens

473
00:20:44,450 --> 00:20:47,360
and you're going to
memorize your times table.

474
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,635
Now, what aliens have to do
with times tables, I don't know.

475
00:20:50,635 --> 00:20:52,760
Any I'd even argue that
memorizing your times table

476
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:54,730
is of questionable value.

477
00:20:54,730 --> 00:20:57,560
There may be a place
for it, but it's

478
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,620
certainly not what being good
at math is about, fundamentally.

479
00:21:01,620 --> 00:21:04,480
And too often,
games for learning

480
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,875
end up being about simply
I'm going to feed you content

481
00:21:07,875 --> 00:21:09,250
that would be
boring in a lecture

482
00:21:09,250 --> 00:21:10,445
or boring in a textbook.

483
00:21:10,445 --> 00:21:11,070
And guess what?

484
00:21:11,070 --> 00:21:12,820
It's going to be just
as boring in a game.

485
00:21:12,820 --> 00:21:14,236
The only difference
is we're going

486
00:21:14,236 --> 00:21:16,970
to surround it with things that
we think you think are fun,

487
00:21:16,970 --> 00:21:18,410
like shooting at aliens.

488
00:21:18,410 --> 00:21:22,180
So it sort of
translates into people

489
00:21:22,180 --> 00:21:23,770
thinking that what
the world needs

490
00:21:23,770 --> 00:21:26,535
is something like
Grand Theft Calculus.

491
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,464
But in fact, without
playfulness, a game

492
00:21:32,464 --> 00:21:33,880
is just going
through the motions.

493
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,180
It's just gym class.

494
00:21:36,180 --> 00:21:38,870
Volleyball in gym is not
the same as volleyball

495
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:41,260
at the beach, and there's
a reason for that.

496
00:21:41,260 --> 00:21:46,601
And even smart MIT
kids making games

497
00:21:46,601 --> 00:21:48,600
when they think there's
learning involved end up

498
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,054
reverting to gym
class, to just I'm

499
00:21:52,054 --> 00:21:54,220
going to make you play this
game to learn this stuff

500
00:21:54,220 --> 00:21:56,560
you don't want to learn.

501
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,012
Just to talk about
the difference

502
00:21:58,012 --> 00:22:00,220
between a good learning game
and a bad learning game,

503
00:22:00,220 --> 00:22:02,220
let's talk about difference
between spelling bee

504
00:22:02,220 --> 00:22:04,030
and Scrabble.

505
00:22:04,030 --> 00:22:10,470
In a spelling bee, most of
us, when we do a spelling bee,

506
00:22:10,470 --> 00:22:11,610
are nervous.

507
00:22:11,610 --> 00:22:12,890
Our palms are sweating.

508
00:22:12,890 --> 00:22:15,765
We think we're going to fail.

509
00:22:15,765 --> 00:22:17,140
Eventually the
moment comes where

510
00:22:17,140 --> 00:22:18,223
they say no, you're wrong.

511
00:22:18,223 --> 00:22:18,790
Sit down.

512
00:22:18,790 --> 00:22:21,800
You're probably relieved.

513
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,867
When they say, you're wrong,
sit down, nobody says to you,

514
00:22:24,867 --> 00:22:27,200
well, that was interesting
that you spelled it that way,

515
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,080
or I can understand why you
might have chosen to spell it

516
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,920
that way, because
it rhymes with-- no.

517
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:33,990
They just say you're
wrong, sit down.

518
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:35,220
And that's the end of it.

519
00:22:35,220 --> 00:22:37,940
The end of a spelling bee, one
person feels good, the winner.

520
00:22:37,940 --> 00:22:40,477
Maybe the kid who comes
in second feels OK.

521
00:22:40,477 --> 00:22:42,310
Everyone else is relieved
because they don't

522
00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:44,880
have to do spelling anymore.

523
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,850
And I first coined this analogy
thinking about bad games.

524
00:22:48,850 --> 00:22:51,716
But I later came to
realize that it's bigger

525
00:22:51,716 --> 00:22:53,340
than that, because
if you think about--

526
00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:55,089
so I don't know how
many of you know this,

527
00:22:55,089 --> 00:22:56,570
but 7% of the
population in the US

528
00:22:56,570 --> 00:22:58,070
graduates high
school saying they're

529
00:22:58,070 --> 00:23:02,720
good at math, which means
we take an hour a day

530
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,340
for 12 years teaching
93% of the population

531
00:23:06,340 --> 00:23:08,650
that they're not good at math.

532
00:23:08,650 --> 00:23:11,180
We would be doing them all a
big favor by in kindergarten,

533
00:23:11,180 --> 00:23:14,860
saying you're not going to do
math and just leave it at that.

534
00:23:14,860 --> 00:23:16,540
Or better yet, we
could figure out ways

535
00:23:16,540 --> 00:23:17,956
that teaching
method that actually

536
00:23:17,956 --> 00:23:20,750
were meaningful and relevant to
people, rather than making them

537
00:23:20,750 --> 00:23:22,250
feel like they're
not good at math.

538
00:23:25,350 --> 00:23:26,661
So that's a bad game.

539
00:23:26,661 --> 00:23:29,160
And so what I'm really arguing
is that school is a bad game.

540
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,050
School is a game in
which we reward people

541
00:23:32,050 --> 00:23:33,656
for learning how
to play at school.

542
00:23:33,656 --> 00:23:35,280
Sometimes they're
smart at some things.

543
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:36,946
I'm not saying that
there aren't people.

544
00:23:36,946 --> 00:23:39,580
But largely our goal
is to weed people out.

545
00:23:39,580 --> 00:23:42,250
And we filter some
people into some fields

546
00:23:42,250 --> 00:23:43,460
because they seem good at it.

547
00:23:43,460 --> 00:23:45,459
For everyone else, we're
sort of convincing them

548
00:23:45,459 --> 00:23:47,520
that they-- whew, I don't
have to study anymore.

549
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:48,394
I'm done with school.

550
00:23:48,394 --> 00:23:50,060
I never have to
learn anything again.

551
00:23:50,060 --> 00:23:53,520
That's the way most people
end up leaving school.

552
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,350
Scrabble, you sit down.

553
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:56,189
You got your board.

554
00:23:56,189 --> 00:23:56,980
You got your tiles.

555
00:23:56,980 --> 00:23:58,396
You're moving
around all the time.

556
00:23:58,396 --> 00:24:01,210
You're being creative even
in the downtime just thinking

557
00:24:01,210 --> 00:24:02,600
about all the words you know.

558
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,310
If you never win a
game of Scrabble,

559
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:07,020
you have all sorts of
other proximal goals,

560
00:24:07,020 --> 00:24:09,675
like getting a 50-point word,
or getting a triple word score,

561
00:24:09,675 --> 00:24:11,540
or getting the highest
score you ever got.

562
00:24:11,540 --> 00:24:15,890
Just like golf, it gives
you lots of feedback.

563
00:24:15,890 --> 00:24:17,710
By the way, most
people who play golf,

564
00:24:17,710 --> 00:24:19,090
they're not in a tournament.

565
00:24:19,090 --> 00:24:21,820
They're not playing
to win a game.

566
00:24:21,820 --> 00:24:23,104
They made their own game.

567
00:24:23,104 --> 00:24:25,520
Maybe I'm going to get a lower
score than I got last time,

568
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,170
or maybe I'm going to get at a
lower score than the person I'm

569
00:24:27,170 --> 00:24:27,840
playing with.

570
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,829
Well, at Scrabble,
it's the same thing.

571
00:24:29,829 --> 00:24:32,370
So you're continually setting
your own goals within the game.

572
00:24:32,370 --> 00:24:34,890
The game has goals.

573
00:24:34,890 --> 00:24:37,050
It has something called victory.

574
00:24:37,050 --> 00:24:38,920
And we all may aspire
to that victory,

575
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,750
but we have lots of other
ways of measuring ourselves

576
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:43,360
that are not about victory.

577
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:46,380
And every player makes up
their own game within Scrabble,

578
00:24:46,380 --> 00:24:48,820
and golf, and any good game.

579
00:24:48,820 --> 00:24:51,340
We actually all play a different
game when we play a game,

580
00:24:51,340 --> 00:24:53,720
and that's not a
fault to the game.

581
00:24:53,720 --> 00:25:01,020
So one last thing I sort of want
to bring into the conversation

582
00:25:01,020 --> 00:25:04,832
as we think about
this is an expression.

583
00:25:04,832 --> 00:25:07,415
It dates back to around the same
time as the Bruegel painting.

584
00:25:07,415 --> 00:25:11,480
But in English, we first see the
expression all work and no play

585
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:12,920
makes Jack a dull boy.

586
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,140
And at first, your
first response

587
00:25:15,140 --> 00:25:16,680
is that's a good thing, right?

588
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,204
Yes, play is important.

589
00:25:19,204 --> 00:25:20,870
So it seems to be a
statement in support

590
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:21,640
of what I've been saying.

591
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,181
But the only trouble with it is
that it also sort of suggests

592
00:25:24,181 --> 00:25:26,080
that there is this dichotomy.

593
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,620
There's work and there's play.

594
00:25:27,620 --> 00:25:29,470
And I may have sort
of suggested it

595
00:25:29,470 --> 00:25:31,136
by saying it's the
thing you do when you

596
00:25:31,136 --> 00:25:33,390
don't have to do anything else.

597
00:25:33,390 --> 00:25:35,290
But then I did
modify that by saying

598
00:25:35,290 --> 00:25:37,880
that you do some of these
other things playfully as well.

599
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,080
And in fact, when
we go into school,

600
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,420
we think that there's
learning and there's play

601
00:25:42,420 --> 00:25:44,435
and they're different.

602
00:25:44,435 --> 00:25:46,810
But in fact, I'm going to go
quickly through those slides

603
00:25:46,810 --> 00:25:48,268
and just go up to
here and just say

604
00:25:48,268 --> 00:25:52,474
I think we really need to
think of it more like this.

605
00:25:52,474 --> 00:25:54,515
And we need to think about
situating things here.

606
00:25:58,970 --> 00:25:59,880
And fun, by the way.

607
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:01,640
Let me just be clear about fun.

608
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,640
Fun is not giggles.

609
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,260
Fun doesn't even necessarily
require a smile on the face.

610
00:26:08,260 --> 00:26:10,490
If you think about yourself
playing a video game

611
00:26:10,490 --> 00:26:12,560
at age 11 or 12,
there were probably

612
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,580
moments where your
tongue was sticking out,

613
00:26:15,580 --> 00:26:16,960
and you're cross
eyed, and you're

614
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,760
yelling at the screen,
that's not fair,

615
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,330
and you threw your controller.

616
00:26:20,330 --> 00:26:23,890
And then you beat the game
and said, that was fun.

617
00:26:23,890 --> 00:26:27,460
And Seymour Papert a retired
professor from the Media Lab,

618
00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:30,300
is the one who coined
the term hard fun.

619
00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:32,270
And hard fun is not
a special category.

620
00:26:32,270 --> 00:26:37,110
I would argue that lots of fun
is hard fun, maybe most fun.

621
00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:41,720
Certainly most
games are hard fun,

622
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,780
and that most good
learning is hard fun.

623
00:26:45,780 --> 00:26:49,490
The things you learn that
aren't fun, yes, there

624
00:26:49,490 --> 00:26:51,994
may be some value to
memorizing your times tables,

625
00:26:51,994 --> 00:26:53,660
but it doesn't make
you a mathematician.

626
00:26:53,660 --> 00:26:55,493
That's not where the
real learning happened.

627
00:26:59,010 --> 00:27:03,430
There's things you have to
memorize-- although I heard

628
00:27:03,430 --> 00:27:05,090
somewhere that a
10th grade biology

629
00:27:05,090 --> 00:27:07,340
student has to memorize
more words than a 10th grade

630
00:27:07,340 --> 00:27:08,960
French student.

631
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,959
And if you think about it, how
many of us, other than those

632
00:27:11,959 --> 00:27:14,000
of us who go to biology,
ever use all those words

633
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,021
that we memorized about?

634
00:27:15,021 --> 00:27:15,520
None of it.

635
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,470
So, I mean, I think too much
of our vision of learning

636
00:27:19,470 --> 00:27:22,980
is still based on memorizing
stuff that you then

637
00:27:22,980 --> 00:27:25,757
get tested on, rather
than building up

638
00:27:25,757 --> 00:27:27,340
cognitive structures
that you can then

639
00:27:27,340 --> 00:27:29,910
work with through the rest
of your life, which is what

640
00:27:29,910 --> 00:27:32,310
we really want people to do.

641
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:34,830
That's my point, because
I know you're doing

642
00:27:34,830 --> 00:27:36,700
this work with the Red Cross.

643
00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:40,500
You have information
you want to convey.

644
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:42,500
I want to argue that if
the information you want

645
00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:44,730
to convey fits on a 3
by 5 card and people

646
00:27:44,730 --> 00:27:48,464
can carry it around
with them, then

647
00:27:48,464 --> 00:27:50,130
there's no point in
making a game of it.

648
00:27:54,450 --> 00:27:56,490
So just to do a
parallel example,

649
00:27:56,490 --> 00:28:04,281
I've done games for the working
poor, games where the goal is

650
00:28:04,281 --> 00:28:06,780
to explain to them that they
shouldn't take out payday loans

651
00:28:06,780 --> 00:28:08,817
or take on credit card debt.

652
00:28:08,817 --> 00:28:11,025
Well, in fact, you could
write that on a 3 by 5 card.

653
00:28:11,025 --> 00:28:12,700
If I handed it to
most people and said

654
00:28:12,700 --> 00:28:14,533
don't take out a payday
loan, don't take out

655
00:28:14,533 --> 00:28:18,390
credit card debt, they would
nod, and smile, and agree.

656
00:28:18,390 --> 00:28:20,400
And then they would
go and do it when

657
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,580
they were in extremis, anyway.

658
00:28:22,580 --> 00:28:24,660
They don't do it
blithely, but they do it.

659
00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:27,680
But my point is that the
understanding that you really

660
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,951
need is more subtle
and more complicated.

661
00:28:29,951 --> 00:28:32,450
You really want to give people
some functional understanding

662
00:28:32,450 --> 00:28:33,210
of something.

663
00:28:33,210 --> 00:28:35,376
So when we did that game,
what we really tried to do

664
00:28:35,376 --> 00:28:38,340
is put people in the situations
in which they might otherwise

665
00:28:38,340 --> 00:28:41,065
get loans and help them see
what the alternatives were.

666
00:28:41,065 --> 00:28:44,360
That that was the important
learning, and helping them

667
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,670
recognize those moments.

668
00:28:46,670 --> 00:28:49,720
The learning was sort of
helping them, and helping

669
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,777
them feel empowered to be
able to make decisions.

670
00:28:52,777 --> 00:28:54,735
So we were doing lots of
stuff beyond conveying

671
00:28:54,735 --> 00:28:58,470
the information don't take
out of credit card debt.

672
00:28:58,470 --> 00:29:01,210
And so similarly, I think you're
doing games where you probably

673
00:29:01,210 --> 00:29:03,540
think you want to
convey information,

674
00:29:03,540 --> 00:29:06,870
but that's all information
that could fit on a pamphlet,

675
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:09,097
or on a 3 by 5 card,
and you probably really

676
00:29:09,097 --> 00:29:10,680
don't want to make
a game out of that.

677
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,950
You probably really want
to make a game that's

678
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:17,690
going to be about helping people
through some experience master

679
00:29:17,690 --> 00:29:19,670
something.

680
00:29:19,670 --> 00:29:22,490
And through their sense
of mastery, change them.

681
00:29:22,490 --> 00:29:25,600
So I think that's it
in a nutshell, what

682
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,850
I want to say, and just use the
rest of the time for questions.

683
00:29:29,850 --> 00:29:32,117
And then you're to see
your paper projects

684
00:29:32,117 --> 00:29:32,950
with everybody else.

685
00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:37,260
Any questions?

686
00:29:41,451 --> 00:29:41,950
Yes.

687
00:29:41,950 --> 00:29:43,363
AUDIENCE: So a lot of
your initial description,

688
00:29:43,363 --> 00:29:45,250
it actually sounded
like grad school.

689
00:29:45,250 --> 00:29:46,554
SCOTT OSTERWEIL: Yeah?

690
00:29:46,554 --> 00:29:48,054
AUDIENCE: So I feel
like grad school

691
00:29:48,054 --> 00:29:50,924
is quite the opposite of
what you're saying school is.

692
00:29:50,924 --> 00:29:51,590
PROFESSOR: Yeah?

693
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:54,100
Say a little more, because
not everyone knows.

694
00:29:54,100 --> 00:29:56,822
So [INAUDIBLE] and fail,
because [INAUDIBLE]

695
00:29:56,822 --> 00:29:58,274
why did you go to grad school?

696
00:29:58,274 --> 00:30:00,788
Because you can explore things.

697
00:30:00,788 --> 00:30:02,084
You can fail.

698
00:30:02,084 --> 00:30:04,028
You can do a project
that doesn't work,

699
00:30:04,028 --> 00:30:06,134
that nobody's really
going to get mad at you.

700
00:30:06,134 --> 00:30:07,926
You just do the next paper.

701
00:30:07,926 --> 00:30:09,759
Afterwards, you can try
as hard as you want.

702
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:12,218
And there are days
when you don't

703
00:30:12,218 --> 00:30:15,185
feel like [INAUDIBLE] too much.

704
00:30:15,185 --> 00:30:16,662
I'm not sure about identity.

705
00:30:16,662 --> 00:30:17,370
PROFESSOR: Right.

706
00:30:17,370 --> 00:30:19,380
Well, a lot of people
enter grad school

707
00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:20,330
thinking they're
going to do one thing

708
00:30:20,330 --> 00:30:21,700
and end up leaving
doing something else.

709
00:30:21,700 --> 00:30:22,993
They have that freedom to.

710
00:30:22,993 --> 00:30:24,530
I mean actually, that's
true of undergraduate too.

711
00:30:24,530 --> 00:30:26,760
I would say undergraduate,
and certainly at MIT, it

712
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,176
seems to me slightly
more playful.

713
00:30:28,176 --> 00:30:29,070
Well, I don't know.

714
00:30:29,070 --> 00:30:29,910
I'm not familiar.

715
00:30:29,910 --> 00:30:32,370
I don't know what it's like
the freshman year, when

716
00:30:32,370 --> 00:30:33,630
you're doing all those psets.

717
00:30:33,630 --> 00:30:35,510
I don't know what that's like.

718
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:37,886
I was a theater major
at a different school,

719
00:30:37,886 --> 00:30:39,260
so I don't know
what that's like.

720
00:30:39,260 --> 00:30:41,843
But I do see, and particularly
in upperclassmen, a fair amount

721
00:30:41,843 --> 00:30:44,680
of play in your work.

722
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:45,710
But I think it is true.

723
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,160
What I'm really
arguing at core is

724
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,320
that what real education is
about is learning how to learn,

725
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,050
is learning all
the kinds of things

726
00:30:55,050 --> 00:30:58,760
you need to do to
know how to learn.

727
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:03,000
And some of it means just
having your natural curiosity

728
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,590
positively reinforced instead
of negatively reinforced.

729
00:31:06,590 --> 00:31:08,180
Kids are naturally curious.

730
00:31:08,180 --> 00:31:11,607
They don't have any
trouble asking questions.

731
00:31:11,607 --> 00:31:13,190
We slowly start doing
things that make

732
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:15,090
people stop asking questions.

733
00:31:15,090 --> 00:31:17,050
We killed the curiosity
in most people.

734
00:31:17,050 --> 00:31:18,970
And so I'm really
arguing that education

735
00:31:18,970 --> 00:31:23,150
should be about
maximizing your curiosity

736
00:31:23,150 --> 00:31:25,430
so that you continue to
ask interesting questions

737
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:28,360
for the rest of your life.

738
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,650
So my example of
math, I don't see

739
00:31:31,650 --> 00:31:33,760
why there's no reason why
everyone who graduates

740
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,260
high school couldn't,
when they then

741
00:31:35,260 --> 00:31:37,150
hear a politician
quote a statistic,

742
00:31:37,150 --> 00:31:39,260
say how does he know that?

743
00:31:39,260 --> 00:31:40,770
Where did that
statistic come from?

744
00:31:43,330 --> 00:31:45,570
And when you read a
survey, say that question

745
00:31:45,570 --> 00:31:50,760
doesn't seem like a
good survey, or that's

746
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,330
correlation, not causation.

747
00:31:52,330 --> 00:31:55,110
Those are all things we can
learn in high school math,

748
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:55,670
for example.

749
00:31:55,670 --> 00:31:59,970
So it's much more about learning
how to think than it is about--

750
00:31:59,970 --> 00:32:03,150
and for statistics, it's far
more important to know how

751
00:32:03,150 --> 00:32:07,790
to ask those questions than it
is for everybody to know what

752
00:32:07,790 --> 00:32:09,240
the r value is of something.

753
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,680
I think that's a term in
the statistics, isn't it?

754
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,360
Yeah.

755
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:14,640
I haven't taken statistics.

756
00:32:17,759 --> 00:32:19,300
And the reason I'm
going back to sort

757
00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:22,330
of trying to talk to you about
what education should be about

758
00:32:22,330 --> 00:32:25,410
is because if you do games
for learning, particularly

759
00:32:25,410 --> 00:32:28,140
because they're
games, get you've

760
00:32:28,140 --> 00:32:31,090
got to shake the false
model of learning is

761
00:32:31,090 --> 00:32:34,362
and go for the truly
playful model--

762
00:32:34,362 --> 00:32:36,070
because otherwise,
it'll be the same kind

763
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:38,820
of boring educational game
that probably made you look

764
00:32:38,820 --> 00:32:41,780
askance at having to listen to
me at all in the first place,

765
00:32:41,780 --> 00:32:42,460
because that's
what you thought I

766
00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:43,710
was going to be talking about.

767
00:32:46,436 --> 00:32:47,360
Yes.

768
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,835
AUDIENCE: What's your opinion
on games that by structure makes

769
00:32:50,835 --> 00:32:56,550
it easy or hard for the players
who play with a lot of effort,

770
00:32:56,550 --> 00:33:00,001
like hard work, or play
without a lot of effort?

771
00:33:04,084 --> 00:33:05,500
SCOTT OSTERWEIL:
You can do a game

772
00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:09,050
that's all-- requires
nothing but 100% effort.

773
00:33:09,050 --> 00:33:11,887
And in a sense, the play is
who decides to play that game.

774
00:33:11,887 --> 00:33:13,720
The people who are
willing to put themselves

775
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,830
through 100% effort all the
time, they voluntarily do that.

776
00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:19,551
And so you've found
your audience.

777
00:33:19,551 --> 00:33:21,550
I'm not saying you couldn't
do a game like that.

778
00:33:21,550 --> 00:33:24,175
I'm saying that it's likely that
in the course of most people's

779
00:33:24,175 --> 00:33:28,840
gameplay, they're going to
have this need to-- a game

780
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,200
where you get on the rails
and the clock is going,

781
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,700
and you guys [INAUDIBLE].

782
00:33:33,700 --> 00:33:35,370
That's why there's
usually plateaus

783
00:33:35,370 --> 00:33:36,370
of some kind or another.

784
00:33:36,370 --> 00:33:38,550
There's an acknowledgement
that people

785
00:33:38,550 --> 00:33:40,220
need to stop and take a breath.

786
00:33:40,220 --> 00:33:44,080
Even if it's just a
plateau, a savepoint,

787
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,650
there's some
acknowledgement of that.

788
00:33:45,650 --> 00:33:47,150
I think games where
there's actually

789
00:33:47,150 --> 00:33:50,660
some combination of really
intense play and more

790
00:33:50,660 --> 00:33:54,240
relaxed play can sometimes
be more satisfying.

791
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,310
So I'm not saying that a
game can't be all hard--

792
00:33:57,310 --> 00:33:59,061
or the other side of
it, Farmville clearly

793
00:33:59,061 --> 00:34:01,310
was very popular with lots
of people who really wanted

794
00:34:01,310 --> 00:34:02,610
to do kind of mindless stuff.

795
00:34:02,610 --> 00:34:04,490
I guess we all have
the need sometimes

796
00:34:04,490 --> 00:34:07,700
for non-taxing-- so there's
nothing wrong with a game which

797
00:34:07,700 --> 00:34:11,480
requires almost all
in or very little in.

798
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,650
It's just that the
reality is, the player is

799
00:34:14,650 --> 00:34:17,073
going to move fluidly from
one state to the other.

800
00:34:17,073 --> 00:34:19,489
And if your game can accommodate
that, so much the better.

801
00:34:22,810 --> 00:34:24,476
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE],
there's something

802
00:34:24,476 --> 00:34:27,130
that I want to
comment on [? that. ?]

803
00:34:27,130 --> 00:34:31,679
It is totally possible to
play Farmville extremely

804
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:32,663
in hard fun, isn't it?

805
00:34:32,663 --> 00:34:34,631
SCOTT OSTERWEIL: Yeah.

806
00:34:34,631 --> 00:34:37,583
AUDIENCE: I had a
interesting [INAUDIBLE]

807
00:34:37,583 --> 00:34:40,781
just playing [? for them ?]
and that required very, very

808
00:34:40,781 --> 00:34:42,503
precise timing [INAUDIBLE].

809
00:34:42,503 --> 00:34:43,979
So it is possible [INAUDIBLE].

810
00:34:43,979 --> 00:34:45,219
SCOTT OSTERWEIL: Yeah.

811
00:34:45,219 --> 00:34:47,630
And the point is
that Phillip chose

812
00:34:47,630 --> 00:34:48,919
to make it that kind of game.

813
00:34:48,919 --> 00:34:50,294
And everybody will
choose to make

814
00:34:50,294 --> 00:34:52,840
it that kind of--
too many games,

815
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,130
I think we freely make
the mistake of imagining

816
00:34:55,130 --> 00:34:57,315
a certain path for a
player on the win state,

817
00:34:57,315 --> 00:34:59,250
and we design the game
around that player,

818
00:34:59,250 --> 00:35:01,240
following the path
to the win state.

819
00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:03,570
And we forget to think
about all of the time

820
00:35:03,570 --> 00:35:05,520
that players are
likely to spend either

821
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,520
trying to break the game,
or play in different modes,

822
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,204
or in fail state.

823
00:35:10,204 --> 00:35:12,370
I mean, one of the things
I encourage students to do

824
00:35:12,370 --> 00:35:14,786
is make sure that the failure
is the most interesting part

825
00:35:14,786 --> 00:35:17,490
of your game, because if your
game is at all challenging,

826
00:35:17,490 --> 00:35:21,270
people are going to be spending
a lot of time in failure mode.

827
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:24,580
A, you want to reward
them and say that's OK.

828
00:35:24,580 --> 00:35:27,565
We're happy to see you here.

829
00:35:27,565 --> 00:35:29,940
And b, you want to make sure
that it remains entertaining

830
00:35:29,940 --> 00:35:33,900
while they're in failure
mode so they don't quit.

831
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:35,900
Like I said, I think
it's an easy mistake

832
00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:38,170
to fixate on what's the
path to success look

833
00:35:38,170 --> 00:35:40,710
like, and not think about
what the whole gameplay

834
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:42,940
experience is like.

835
00:35:42,940 --> 00:35:45,790
And that gets worse when
people have an agenda,

836
00:35:45,790 --> 00:35:49,200
like a game for the Red Cross.

837
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:50,470
We really fall into that trap.

838
00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:53,270
And that's why so many
serious games seem

839
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:58,030
so serious, and
earnest, and humorless,

840
00:35:58,030 --> 00:36:01,470
because all the
designer thought about

841
00:36:01,470 --> 00:36:04,670
was the player earnestly
achieving the goals

842
00:36:04,670 --> 00:36:07,174
that the designer set
out for the player,

843
00:36:07,174 --> 00:36:09,090
rather than thinking
about the player playing.

844
00:36:12,502 --> 00:36:13,418
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE].

845
00:36:18,358 --> 00:36:20,828
AUDIENCE: I guess this goes
back to your example about golf

846
00:36:20,828 --> 00:36:24,286
[INAUDIBLE] and not having
somebody yell at you for not

847
00:36:24,286 --> 00:36:25,587
hitting the ball straight.

848
00:36:25,587 --> 00:36:27,003
How do you think
that kind of goes

849
00:36:27,003 --> 00:36:30,708
with the existence
of golf teachers, who

850
00:36:30,708 --> 00:36:34,166
are paid to essentially tell
you you're doing it wrong?

851
00:36:34,166 --> 00:36:36,142
SCOTT OSTERWEIL: [INAUDIBLE].

852
00:36:36,142 --> 00:36:39,140
AUDIENCE: I guess I'm thinking
of my own dad and [INAUDIBLE]

853
00:36:39,140 --> 00:36:42,615
my sister, who have very
different opinions about a golf

854
00:36:42,615 --> 00:36:44,387
coach telling them
to do it right.

855
00:36:44,387 --> 00:36:45,970
SCOTT OSTERWEIL: So
the relevant thing

856
00:36:45,970 --> 00:36:48,706
there is that they elected to
have a golf coach tell them

857
00:36:48,706 --> 00:36:51,570
to do that at a certain point in
their-- if you started somebody

858
00:36:51,570 --> 00:36:54,035
with a golf coach
yelling at them-- now,

859
00:36:54,035 --> 00:36:57,220
it could be very gentle, loving,
helpful person, in which case

860
00:36:57,220 --> 00:36:58,230
it might go fine.

861
00:36:58,230 --> 00:37:01,516
But chances are if you started
somebody with someone standing

862
00:37:01,516 --> 00:37:03,890
over their shoulder telling
them what to do every moment,

863
00:37:03,890 --> 00:37:06,410
they probably would never
develop a real interest in it.

864
00:37:06,410 --> 00:37:11,820
So the point which you elect
to have somebody there,

865
00:37:11,820 --> 00:37:13,030
you have your reasons now.

866
00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:14,071
You have your motivation.

867
00:37:14,071 --> 00:37:17,280
And so that's a different
experience at that point.

868
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,190
I think lots of kids
who get turned off

869
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:23,950
to musical instruments
or sports because too

870
00:37:23,950 --> 00:37:25,900
early in the experience,
they're forced

871
00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:29,520
into sort of just reproduce the
results that some adult wants

872
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,860
you to reproduce, rather than
explore this and figure out

873
00:37:33,860 --> 00:37:35,010
where your motivation is.

874
00:37:39,851 --> 00:37:41,300
Well, thanks.

875
00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:43,800
But I'm sticking around, so if
you have any other questions,

876
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,247
I'm happy to take them.

877
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:52,260
PROFESSOR: Another
reason I wanted

878
00:37:52,260 --> 00:37:54,150
to ask you to come
and talk to class.

879
00:37:54,150 --> 00:37:56,670
So we mentioned a couple of
the other game classes we have

880
00:37:56,670 --> 00:37:58,150
at MIT that we're teaching.

881
00:37:58,150 --> 00:38:00,910
And you teach 615, the
Games for Social Change?

882
00:38:00,910 --> 00:38:02,920
SCOTT OSTERWEIL: Games
for Social Change, yeah.

883
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:03,860
PROFESSOR: Next fall, right?

884
00:38:03,860 --> 00:38:04,840
SCOTT OSTERWEIL: Yeah,
that'll be next fall.

885
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:05,690
PROFESSOR: Can you
say a little bit

886
00:38:05,690 --> 00:38:06,960
about what that class entails?

887
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:07,876
SCOTT OSTERWEIL: Yeah.

888
00:38:07,876 --> 00:38:09,050
And Sabrina took it.

889
00:38:14,345 --> 00:38:18,830
It's sort of taking the same
principles that I was talking

890
00:38:18,830 --> 00:38:23,380
about and using them to
think about if you're

891
00:38:23,380 --> 00:38:26,900
interested in social change
and how you could use for that,

892
00:38:26,900 --> 00:38:30,180
understanding that you
can't make people change.

893
00:38:30,180 --> 00:38:32,630
And so the question is,
how can you use play

894
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:35,090
to actually encourage change?

895
00:38:35,090 --> 00:38:37,480
And so probably we're
looking critically

896
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:38,680
at how society works.

897
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,504
And the task we're trying this
year for the first time-- well,

898
00:38:42,504 --> 00:38:44,170
you're doing two big
projects this year.

899
00:38:49,070 --> 00:38:55,060
We're just now finishing a
project on the theme of walls

900
00:38:55,060 --> 00:38:57,680
to go in conjunction with the
25th anniversary of the Berlin

901
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,620
Wall coming down.

902
00:38:59,620 --> 00:39:02,190
And that's going to be
on display at the Goethe

903
00:39:02,190 --> 00:39:05,608
Institute, which is
a place in Boston,

904
00:39:05,608 --> 00:39:07,233
and it may also be
on display in Munich

905
00:39:07,233 --> 00:39:10,195
at the same time, the games.

906
00:39:10,195 --> 00:39:11,820
And then we're going
do a project where

907
00:39:11,820 --> 00:39:15,390
we try to actually
look at some system

908
00:39:15,390 --> 00:39:18,330
in society, like school,
which is a bad game,

909
00:39:18,330 --> 00:39:20,420
and try to redesign
it as a good game.

910
00:39:20,420 --> 00:39:23,970
Not make a game about school,
but rather redesign school

911
00:39:23,970 --> 00:39:26,794
itself as if it were a game.

912
00:39:26,794 --> 00:39:28,210
Every year we try
different stuff.

913
00:39:28,210 --> 00:39:29,170
The one thing I
like to try to do

914
00:39:29,170 --> 00:39:30,753
is come up with
projects that actually

915
00:39:30,753 --> 00:39:33,960
have-- for which you're doing it
with somebody besides just me.

916
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,364
I don't just want students
doing stuff for me.

917
00:39:36,364 --> 00:39:38,280
I want them doing it for
some bigger audience,

918
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:39,850
and we try to do
that in every game,

919
00:39:39,850 --> 00:39:40,850
every semester [INAUDIBLE].

920
00:39:40,850 --> 00:39:41,290
And that's [INAUDIBLE].

921
00:39:41,290 --> 00:39:41,810
PROFESSOR: Cool.

922
00:39:41,810 --> 00:39:42,010
Yeah.

923
00:39:42,010 --> 00:39:42,820
So if you really
like what you're

924
00:39:42,820 --> 00:39:45,190
doing right now with the Red
Cross/Red Crescent project,

925
00:39:45,190 --> 00:39:47,220
and you want do more
of this kind of stuff,

926
00:39:47,220 --> 00:39:48,670
take a look at that in the fall.

927
00:39:48,670 --> 00:39:50,940
And if you're looking
for some help or insight

928
00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:54,930
about the design of your
project this semester,

929
00:39:54,930 --> 00:39:57,240
the Games for Social
Change materials

930
00:39:57,240 --> 00:39:58,870
are on the
OpenCourseWare website.

931
00:39:58,870 --> 00:40:01,340
And we'll post those
readings and materials there

932
00:40:01,340 --> 00:40:03,210
so you can take a look at that.

933
00:40:03,210 --> 00:40:04,918
SCOTT OSTERWEIL: It's
a bit of a seminar,

934
00:40:04,918 --> 00:40:06,290
so I think there's no lectures.

935
00:40:06,290 --> 00:40:07,540
And so I think there's a lot--

936
00:40:07,540 --> 00:40:08,200
PROFESSOR: The readings.

937
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:08,660
SCOTT OSTERWEIL: Yeah.

938
00:40:08,660 --> 00:40:09,860
And they're not
always explicitly

939
00:40:09,860 --> 00:40:11,810
about what we end up
talking about in class.

940
00:40:11,810 --> 00:40:13,910
So I don't promise that
they'll always be helpful.

941
00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:16,240
But anyway, they're more
like thought starters

942
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:17,525
than [INAUDIBLE].

943
00:40:17,525 --> 00:40:18,400
PROFESSOR: All right.

944
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:19,787
So it's 1:48.

945
00:40:19,787 --> 00:40:20,870
Take a really quick break.

946
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:25,030
And then set yourself up
into your five groups,

947
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:26,510
and set up your play test.

948
00:40:26,510 --> 00:40:28,710
We'd like to start
doing play test at 2:00.

949
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:30,600
So 12 minutes from now,
if that's possible.

950
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:31,850
Do you think it's enough time?

951
00:40:35,460 --> 00:40:38,150
So we're about to get started.

952
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:41,580
How many stations do
you have for testers?

953
00:40:41,580 --> 00:40:43,620
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]
many [INAUDIBLE].

954
00:40:43,620 --> 00:40:45,990
PROFESSOR: How many
are you going to have?

955
00:40:45,990 --> 00:40:46,890
Three?

956
00:40:46,890 --> 00:40:47,650
All right, three.

957
00:40:52,033 --> 00:40:53,160
Cool.

958
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,810
If you're not using your
computer to run a game,

959
00:40:56,810 --> 00:41:00,340
then close it or set it
aside so people know.

960
00:41:00,340 --> 00:41:03,037
How many stations are you
going to have over here?

961
00:41:03,037 --> 00:41:04,230
AUDIENCE: Two.

962
00:41:04,230 --> 00:41:06,260
PROFESSOR: Two?

963
00:41:06,260 --> 00:41:08,160
And group behind you,
how many workstations?

964
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:08,660
Four?

965
00:41:15,207 --> 00:41:17,040
How many workstations
are you going to have?

966
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:17,857
Two?

967
00:41:17,857 --> 00:41:18,940
And in the back, how many?

968
00:41:18,940 --> 00:41:19,440
One?

969
00:41:24,250 --> 00:41:28,310
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9, 12.

970
00:41:28,310 --> 00:41:34,280
So basically if you have--
there's one, two, three, four,

971
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:39,050
five testers, plus let's
say each team send out

972
00:41:39,050 --> 00:41:42,510
two people to test other games.

973
00:41:42,510 --> 00:41:43,350
Remember to rotate.

974
00:41:43,350 --> 00:41:46,120
We're going to do this
for about 20 minutes,

975
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:46,980
as long as it takes.

976
00:41:46,980 --> 00:41:49,807
And then see where we
are and do it again

977
00:41:49,807 --> 00:41:51,640
to get some just quick
testing and make sure

978
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,060
that the five of us get to play
a good number of your games

979
00:41:55,060 --> 00:41:57,320
and give you some
feedback on that.

980
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,230
So remember, if you're using
digital-- if you're not,

981
00:42:00,230 --> 00:42:02,080
if a computer's not
being used for testing,

982
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,080
close it or make it look
like it's not being used

983
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:06,520
for testing by typing on it.

984
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:10,650
Let's get started.

985
00:42:52,450 --> 00:42:55,730
Can I get everyone's
attention really quick?

986
00:42:55,730 --> 00:42:57,620
Can I just get a
really brief report?

987
00:42:57,620 --> 00:43:00,520
How many teams-- how many
tests did you guys get?

988
00:43:04,296 --> 00:43:06,460
AUDIENCE: Two rounds
and three [INAUDIBLE].

989
00:43:06,460 --> 00:43:09,737
PROFESSOR: So you feel like you
did a good amount of testing?

990
00:43:09,737 --> 00:43:12,070
For the team close up here,
how many rounds did you get?

991
00:43:12,070 --> 00:43:15,401
How much testing did you get?

992
00:43:15,401 --> 00:43:19,610
AUDIENCE: We got about
four [INAUDIBLE].

993
00:43:19,610 --> 00:43:20,986
PROFESSOR: Four?

994
00:43:20,986 --> 00:43:22,247
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]?

995
00:43:22,247 --> 00:43:23,830
PROFESSOR: How many
tests did you get?

996
00:43:23,830 --> 00:43:25,163
How many people played the game?

997
00:43:25,163 --> 00:43:25,980
A good number?

998
00:43:25,980 --> 00:43:29,820
AUDIENCE: We had two
who played [INAUDIBLE].

999
00:43:29,820 --> 00:43:30,500
PROFESSOR: Cool.

1000
00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:31,891
I'm just trying to get a sense.

1001
00:43:31,891 --> 00:43:34,515
You guys feel like you've got a
good sense of number of people?

1002
00:43:34,515 --> 00:43:37,239
Did you guys get four or five?

1003
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,155
And in the back, how
many players did you get?

1004
00:43:39,155 --> 00:43:41,081
AUDIENCE: We only
had one [INAUDIBLE].

1005
00:43:41,081 --> 00:43:42,330
PROFESSOR: Has it been useful?

1006
00:43:42,330 --> 00:43:42,770
AUDIENCE: Yes.

1007
00:43:42,770 --> 00:43:43,353
PROFESSOR: OK.

1008
00:43:46,450 --> 00:43:50,620
So let's close off
testing for now.

1009
00:43:50,620 --> 00:43:54,200
If you'd like to test later
today or later during the class

1010
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:55,480
period, you can.

1011
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,840
Go ahead and finish off whatever
testing you're doing right now.

1012
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,320
And at 2:50, we're
going to come down

1013
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,140
and each team's going to give
a brief, two-minute description

1014
00:44:05,140 --> 00:44:08,960
about the state of their game
and your product backlog.

1015
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:10,820
And those are actually
going to get recorded

1016
00:44:10,820 --> 00:44:14,669
so that we can send them to
Pablo and the rest of his team,

1017
00:44:14,669 --> 00:44:16,460
so they can see what
you've been working on

1018
00:44:16,460 --> 00:44:19,240
and give us some
feedback about it.

1019
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:20,150
OK?

1020
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:22,680
So 2:50.

1021
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:23,650
Everyone set?

1022
00:44:23,650 --> 00:44:24,566
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE].

1023
00:44:33,230 --> 00:44:35,570
PROFESSOR: So Snap, come on up.

1024
00:44:35,570 --> 00:44:37,439
And again, two minutes.

1025
00:44:37,439 --> 00:44:38,480
Talk about your features.

1026
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,720
Talk about what's in your game
now, what will be in your game.

1027
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:46,460
Also, give a really brief
description of the topic

1028
00:44:46,460 --> 00:44:47,490
your game's about.

1029
00:44:47,490 --> 00:44:51,210
So this is for our clients
to know what we decided

1030
00:44:51,210 --> 00:44:54,050
to do for all of our topics.

1031
00:44:54,050 --> 00:44:55,620
AUDIENCE: So we're Snap.

1032
00:44:55,620 --> 00:44:59,100
So we've decided to [? return ?]
Snap into a multiplayer game.

1033
00:44:59,100 --> 00:45:03,630
So it'll be all everybody
playing at the same time.

1034
00:45:03,630 --> 00:45:06,310
Right now we have a game that
looks pretty similar to what

1035
00:45:06,310 --> 00:45:08,930
we played in class,
where you can enter words

1036
00:45:08,930 --> 00:45:14,490
and you can snap with anybody
else who has played the game.

1037
00:45:14,490 --> 00:45:16,342
Right now we don't
have any fiction

1038
00:45:16,342 --> 00:45:18,050
and we don't have any
indication of score

1039
00:45:18,050 --> 00:45:20,175
other than just the number
of times you've snapped.

1040
00:45:20,175 --> 00:45:21,880
We're hoping to change that.

1041
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:23,890
We got a lot of really
good feedback today,

1042
00:45:23,890 --> 00:45:26,720
and we've thought new ideas
for how to convey feedback

1043
00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:29,695
to the player and some
improvements to the UI,

1044
00:45:29,695 --> 00:45:31,070
because right now
we don't really

1045
00:45:31,070 --> 00:45:33,430
express much to the player.

1046
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:34,990
That's about it.

1047
00:45:34,990 --> 00:45:37,012
PROFESSOR: Any challenges
that [INAUDIBLE]

1048
00:45:37,012 --> 00:45:38,896
leading up to where you are now?

1049
00:45:38,896 --> 00:45:42,193
Is there anything [INAUDIBLE]
questions [INAUDIBLE]

1050
00:45:42,193 --> 00:45:43,591
risks that you have right now?

1051
00:45:43,591 --> 00:45:46,090
AUDIENCE: So the networking is
still a risk, as we just saw.

1052
00:45:46,090 --> 00:45:48,461
It's a lot more confusing
when something doesn't work,

1053
00:45:48,461 --> 00:45:49,335
why it's not working.

1054
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,090
We also do want to confirm
that the game that we build

1055
00:45:56,090 --> 00:45:58,860
is similar enough to Snap
in terms of satisfying

1056
00:45:58,860 --> 00:46:00,390
the client's goals.

1057
00:46:00,390 --> 00:46:03,050
So we don't want to change the
game, even if it's more fun.

1058
00:46:03,050 --> 00:46:04,800
We want to make sure
that the game still

1059
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,780
satisfies the
client's requirements

1060
00:46:06,780 --> 00:46:08,905
and that they'll still be
able to use it and gather

1061
00:46:08,905 --> 00:46:10,490
the information they want to.

1062
00:46:10,490 --> 00:46:12,410
And that will require
some careful testing

1063
00:46:12,410 --> 00:46:14,430
to see what people end
up doing with Snap.

1064
00:46:14,430 --> 00:46:16,080
PROFESSOR: And what
did you decide on?

1065
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:17,940
Have you decided on
tech yet, or are you

1066
00:46:17,940 --> 00:46:19,176
still trying out multiple--

1067
00:46:19,176 --> 00:46:19,800
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

1068
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,010
So I think we have a tech.

1069
00:46:22,010 --> 00:46:24,840
So we have a server
running on Node.

1070
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,950
And we're going to use
Phaser for the front-end

1071
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:30,028
so that we can make a
more expressive game.

1072
00:46:30,028 --> 00:46:31,694
For now, we're not
using Phaser, though.

1073
00:46:31,694 --> 00:46:36,350
The current prototype
doesn't use Phaser at all.

1074
00:46:36,350 --> 00:46:38,790
AUDIENCE: One thing you asked
earlier was [INAUDIBLE].

1075
00:46:42,539 --> 00:46:43,914
Does that basically
mean that you

1076
00:46:43,914 --> 00:46:46,036
have to run on two
different flight, or--

1077
00:46:46,036 --> 00:46:46,910
AUDIENCE: Yeah, yeah.

1078
00:46:46,910 --> 00:46:48,720
So the idea would
be to experiment

1079
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:53,820
with what sorts of entire
group visualizations

1080
00:46:53,820 --> 00:46:57,100
would be interesting to
put up for the entire room.

1081
00:46:57,100 --> 00:46:59,840
And the back-end team might work
on what sort of visualizations

1082
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,680
we want to show separate
from what we want to export

1083
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:03,826
at the end of the game.

1084
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,394
PROFESSOR: [INAUDIBLE]
anybody else?

1085
00:47:08,394 --> 00:47:09,310
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE].

1086
00:47:09,310 --> 00:47:10,260
AUDIENCE: Thank you.

1087
00:47:14,050 --> 00:47:15,800
PROFESSOR: [INAUDIBLE]
Cholera is Awesome.

1088
00:47:26,075 --> 00:47:26,700
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

1089
00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:28,950
So the current
state of our game,

1090
00:47:28,950 --> 00:47:30,869
we spent a lot of time
thinking about design

1091
00:47:30,869 --> 00:47:34,140
and how exactly we
want to do things.

1092
00:47:34,140 --> 00:47:36,760
So we're currently
making sort of a game

1093
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,010
where you control--
or don't control.

1094
00:47:39,010 --> 00:47:41,090
You take care of a
bunch of villages.

1095
00:47:41,090 --> 00:47:43,320
So you see different villages,
how infected they are,

1096
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,153
and how many people are
dying sort of thing,

1097
00:47:45,153 --> 00:47:47,820
and then implement measures
to prevent cholera spreading.

1098
00:47:47,820 --> 00:47:50,460
So you give people soap
to wash their hands

1099
00:47:50,460 --> 00:47:54,365
or set restroom facilities,
or use vaccination,

1100
00:47:54,365 --> 00:47:56,050
and that sort of thing.

1101
00:47:56,050 --> 00:47:58,800
And so a lot of the
feedback that we

1102
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,590
got on a lot of questions
that we're facing basically

1103
00:48:01,590 --> 00:48:04,935
revolves around the issue of
making this game realistic

1104
00:48:04,935 --> 00:48:08,660
versus making this game
more fun sort of thing.

1105
00:48:08,660 --> 00:48:11,970
So you can make a really
unrealistic game that

1106
00:48:11,970 --> 00:48:13,990
can be tons of fun,
but we also want

1107
00:48:13,990 --> 00:48:16,073
to stick to reality because
at the end of the day,

1108
00:48:16,073 --> 00:48:18,860
we do want to teach the people
that are playing how to prevent

1109
00:48:18,860 --> 00:48:20,320
cholera from spreading.

1110
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,740
So there's sort of this
trade-off that we have to make.

1111
00:48:22,740 --> 00:48:25,320
And the second trade
off is sort of like you

1112
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,370
can make a blantanty educational
game that just throws back

1113
00:48:29,370 --> 00:48:31,578
at you that can sort of be
fun for the first time you

1114
00:48:31,578 --> 00:48:33,578
play it, but doesn't have
a lot of replay value.

1115
00:48:33,578 --> 00:48:36,639
And it's sort of hard to make
a great educational game that

1116
00:48:36,639 --> 00:48:37,930
also has a lot of replay value.

1117
00:48:37,930 --> 00:48:40,424
So we're thinking, maybe
consider maybe we don't

1118
00:48:40,424 --> 00:48:41,590
want that much replay value.

1119
00:48:41,590 --> 00:48:45,120
Maybe this is a game that these
people will play once or twice,

1120
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,620
learn what they need to learn,
and then never play it again.

1121
00:48:47,620 --> 00:48:50,559
So it's sort of trade-offs
that we need to think about.

1122
00:48:50,559 --> 00:48:52,934
PROFESSOR: So you're still
working on the paper prototype

1123
00:48:52,934 --> 00:48:53,898
that you need [INAUDIBLE]?

1124
00:48:53,898 --> 00:48:54,380
AUDIENCE: Yes.

1125
00:48:54,380 --> 00:48:54,862
PROFESSOR: OK.

1126
00:48:54,862 --> 00:48:55,362
Cool.

1127
00:48:55,362 --> 00:48:56,308
Thanks, [INAUDIBLE].

1128
00:48:56,308 --> 00:48:56,548
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

1129
00:48:56,548 --> 00:48:58,381
But we're starting to
build up the back-end.

1130
00:48:58,381 --> 00:49:00,880
And we're going to be using
Phaser to [INAUDIBLE].

1131
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:01,986
PROFESSOR: So you've
already [INAUDIBLE]?

1132
00:49:01,986 --> 00:49:02,486
OK, cool.

1133
00:49:08,650 --> 00:49:09,947
Forecast-Based Funding, right?

1134
00:49:09,947 --> 00:49:10,530
AUDIENCE: Yep.

1135
00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:16,840
Hi, we're
Forecast-Based Funding.

1136
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,930
The general idea
behind our concept

1137
00:49:19,930 --> 00:49:21,960
is that planning
ahead for disasters

1138
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,840
is much better than
trying to react to them.

1139
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,615
So if you can have operating
procedures or ways of planning

1140
00:49:26,615 --> 00:49:29,320
for them [INAUDIBLE]
afford that,

1141
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:34,110
you can reduce loss of lives
in the event of disasters.

1142
00:49:34,110 --> 00:49:36,240
We are actually
between two prototypes

1143
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:39,590
right now that we're testing
to try and get at the ideas.

1144
00:49:39,590 --> 00:49:44,090
The first one is a sort
of higher-level city-based

1145
00:49:44,090 --> 00:49:47,910
simulation of a city that's
at risk of disaster, which you

1146
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:50,035
then have to fortify,
[INAUDIBLE] train volunteers,

1147
00:49:50,035 --> 00:49:53,200
or preparing for
upcoming disasters

1148
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,466
in order to prevent too much
damage from happening to them.

1149
00:49:56,466 --> 00:49:58,590
One of the problems that
we're seeing with the game

1150
00:49:58,590 --> 00:50:01,810
is that's kind of abstract
and not as interactive

1151
00:50:01,810 --> 00:50:03,270
for players to connect with.

1152
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:04,978
But they are getting
a good understanding

1153
00:50:04,978 --> 00:50:07,218
of the idea of planning ahead.

1154
00:50:07,218 --> 00:50:08,120
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

1155
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:09,780
And so to try and
address those issues,

1156
00:50:09,780 --> 00:50:11,430
we have a second
prototype right now,

1157
00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:16,840
which is about trying
to actually rescue

1158
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:18,570
people in a flooding city.

1159
00:50:18,570 --> 00:50:21,320
And so that hits the other
end of the scale, where

1160
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:25,200
the player is told ahead
of time this disaster

1161
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,320
was planned for versus this
disaster was not planned for,

1162
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,742
and the appropriate
effects for each.

1163
00:50:31,742 --> 00:50:33,200
And then they have
to rescue people

1164
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,320
under those two
different conditions,

1165
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,220
and then they get
to directly compare

1166
00:50:37,220 --> 00:50:42,240
what the experience of
is for acting in one

1167
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:44,190
circumstance versus the other.

1168
00:50:44,190 --> 00:50:45,815
AUDIENCE: Over the
next couple of days,

1169
00:50:45,815 --> 00:50:49,235
we'll be looking at what we
learned from both of them

1170
00:50:49,235 --> 00:50:51,560
and trying to either
combine them or pull out

1171
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:56,182
the parts that we thought were
really useful to [INAUDIBLE].

1172
00:50:56,182 --> 00:50:58,174
PROFESSOR: [INAUDIBLE] on this?

1173
00:50:58,174 --> 00:50:59,170
This was the hard one.

1174
00:50:59,170 --> 00:50:59,668
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

1175
00:50:59,668 --> 00:51:00,626
PROFESSOR: [INAUDIBLE]?

1176
00:51:02,819 --> 00:51:04,860
AUDIENCE: I think it was
stated a couple of times

1177
00:51:04,860 --> 00:51:07,720
that we should be looking at
people that are policymakers

1178
00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:10,987
or donors in the sense of
sort of people who would be

1179
00:51:10,987 --> 00:51:13,970
allocating funds from
governments or non-profits,

1180
00:51:13,970 --> 00:51:15,261
things like that.

1181
00:51:15,261 --> 00:51:17,510
Basically we make it appear
that this type of planning

1182
00:51:17,510 --> 00:51:19,510
ahead is a good idea.

1183
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,426
PROFESSOR: And have you
decided on technology yet,

1184
00:51:25,426 --> 00:51:28,077
or are you still pondering it?

1185
00:51:28,077 --> 00:51:29,660
AUDIENCE: We're
probably using Phaser.

1186
00:51:35,050 --> 00:51:36,020
PROFESSOR: All right.

1187
00:51:36,020 --> 00:51:36,520
Thank you.

1188
00:51:40,430 --> 00:51:40,930
Heat Wave.

1189
00:51:48,585 --> 00:51:49,126
AUDIENCE: Hi.

1190
00:51:49,126 --> 00:51:51,430
So as you guys have
all heard, Heat Wave

1191
00:51:51,430 --> 00:51:53,800
is going to be a game
that will hopefully

1192
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:58,210
be used to help Red Cross
volunteers help people in areas

1193
00:51:58,210 --> 00:52:00,068
that are either
suffering from or about

1194
00:52:00,068 --> 00:52:02,320
to suffer from a heat wave.

1195
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,710
So what we did was
we decided we wanted

1196
00:52:05,710 --> 00:52:09,700
to test out a very simple
digital prototype, not

1197
00:52:09,700 --> 00:52:12,890
with the same type action
as our final prototype,

1198
00:52:12,890 --> 00:52:16,260
but not in Unity
because having a working

1199
00:52:16,260 --> 00:52:18,051
game in Unity at this
point we didn't think

1200
00:52:18,051 --> 00:52:19,380
is a viable option.

1201
00:52:19,380 --> 00:52:21,450
So we made a Python
test base game.

1202
00:52:21,450 --> 00:52:23,860
And people were
able to choose what

1203
00:52:23,860 --> 00:52:26,430
they were going to do based
on the scenario and the people

1204
00:52:26,430 --> 00:52:28,360
they were interacting with.

1205
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:33,450
And what we really want to
test it was how does this work.

1206
00:52:33,450 --> 00:52:36,300
Is playing a good way to learn?

1207
00:52:36,300 --> 00:52:39,490
And if so, how can we make more
learning come out of the fact

1208
00:52:39,490 --> 00:52:42,620
that they're playing a game
and then making these choices.

1209
00:52:42,620 --> 00:52:46,740
So what we did was we showed
people, and a lot of times,

1210
00:52:46,740 --> 00:52:48,156
people noticed
right away, well, I

1211
00:52:48,156 --> 00:52:50,590
don't want to sit there
and do nothing, which is

1212
00:52:50,590 --> 00:52:52,180
what we wanted them to notice.

1213
00:52:52,180 --> 00:52:56,110
And oh, this person passed
out even though they were

1214
00:52:56,110 --> 00:52:57,613
only outside for three hours.

1215
00:52:57,613 --> 00:52:58,365
Why was that?

1216
00:52:58,365 --> 00:53:00,140
So we did see a lot of that.

1217
00:53:00,140 --> 00:53:02,850
But something we didn't
see was people sometimes

1218
00:53:02,850 --> 00:53:04,185
got stuck in a pattern.

1219
00:53:04,185 --> 00:53:06,700
It's just like, well, I'm always
going to do the same thing.

1220
00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:07,845
And then they don't
get different results

1221
00:53:07,845 --> 00:53:09,680
and they don't really
learn anything.

1222
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,950
So we want to give people more
interesting options and more

1223
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:15,470
options in our actual game
so that they try more things

1224
00:53:15,470 --> 00:53:16,340
and they learn more.

1225
00:53:16,340 --> 00:53:18,967
So that's what
we're going to do.

1226
00:53:18,967 --> 00:53:20,550
PROFESSOR: So you
already [INAUDIBLE]?

1227
00:53:20,550 --> 00:53:21,945
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

1228
00:53:21,945 --> 00:53:23,060
Any other questions?

1229
00:53:25,837 --> 00:53:26,795
PROFESSOR: [INAUDIBLE].

1230
00:53:26,795 --> 00:53:27,288
AUDIENCE: [? Great. ?]

1231
00:53:27,288 --> 00:53:28,274
PROFESSOR: Thank you.

1232
00:53:31,725 --> 00:53:33,204
[INAUDIBLE] Animal Village.

1233
00:53:41,585 --> 00:53:42,720
AUDIENCE: Hi, everybody.

1234
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:44,930
We're saving the Animal Village.

1235
00:53:44,930 --> 00:53:50,240
Our goal is to empower
around 8 to 13-year-olds

1236
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:56,760
to reach into their
community and learn more

1237
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,990
about what cholera is,
what its symptoms are,

1238
00:54:00,990 --> 00:54:03,780
and how they would
convince people

1239
00:54:03,780 --> 00:54:06,240
that cholera is actually happen.

1240
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:11,090
Our play tests were focused on
bringing as many minigames as

1241
00:54:11,090 --> 00:54:13,340
possible, and to testing.

1242
00:54:13,340 --> 00:54:16,840
So in this case, we
had four minigames.

1243
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,160
The main feedback we
got on those games

1244
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:24,774
was that they were far
too easy and simplistic.

1245
00:54:24,774 --> 00:54:28,090
And we agree, it turns out.

1246
00:54:28,090 --> 00:54:31,280
Our goals moving forward
are to essentially

1247
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:33,727
improve our game
beyond just reading

1248
00:54:33,727 --> 00:54:37,430
an informational
pamphlet, and to do things

1249
00:54:37,430 --> 00:54:43,390
where it requires
actual abstract thought

1250
00:54:43,390 --> 00:54:47,530
and in general, more
effort from the player

1251
00:54:47,530 --> 00:54:50,240
to think of the behaviors
and actions they

1252
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:55,240
need to potentially change or
encourage in their community.

1253
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:59,030
We found a lot of success
with this in our game already

1254
00:54:59,030 --> 00:55:01,000
present in the mayor dialogue.

1255
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,640
And we hope to branch
that up as moving towards,

1256
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,030
we begin to implement
our game in Phaser.

1257
00:55:10,757 --> 00:55:11,340
Any questions?

1258
00:55:15,633 --> 00:55:21,370
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] what's
the upside of having minigames

1259
00:55:21,370 --> 00:55:23,722
versus one [? full ?] game?

1260
00:55:23,722 --> 00:55:25,680
AUDIENCE: So our goal
with the united minigames

1261
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:31,066
is to be able to
drill down and be

1262
00:55:31,066 --> 00:55:33,430
very specific about
which behavior

1263
00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:35,700
we want people to show.

1264
00:55:35,700 --> 00:55:40,450
There are approximately
three to four core behaviors

1265
00:55:40,450 --> 00:55:43,910
that are very necessary
to prevent cholera.

1266
00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:48,090
And having one minigame devoted
to each of them in theory

1267
00:55:48,090 --> 00:55:56,679
will allows us to focus more
and teach more, as a result.

1268
00:55:56,679 --> 00:56:00,610
AUDIENCE: That's
a good statement.

1269
00:56:00,610 --> 00:56:02,764
Just riffing off something
else that you said.

1270
00:56:02,764 --> 00:56:05,180
I haven't looked that closely
at the cholera documenation.

1271
00:56:05,180 --> 00:56:07,590
I'm not so sure if convincing
people that cholera

1272
00:56:07,590 --> 00:56:10,862
is a problem is necessarily
the thing you need to do,

1273
00:56:10,862 --> 00:56:13,320
but convincing people to change
their behavior and whatnot.

1274
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,771
AUDIENCE: So not
convincing people cholera

1275
00:56:15,771 --> 00:56:18,477
is a problem because obviously.

1276
00:56:18,477 --> 00:56:21,270
It's convincing people
to report cholera

1277
00:56:21,270 --> 00:56:26,605
as it happens instead of waiting
to see if that one isolated

1278
00:56:26,605 --> 00:56:31,880
case of diarrhea is actually a
symptom of an outbreak or just

1279
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:33,444
someone eating something bad.

1280
00:56:33,444 --> 00:56:34,110
AUDIENCE: Right.

1281
00:56:34,110 --> 00:56:36,290
So one of the things is
like this early alert thing

1282
00:56:36,290 --> 00:56:36,990
[INAUDIBLE].

1283
00:56:36,990 --> 00:56:37,490
OK.

1284
00:56:37,490 --> 00:56:37,990
Cool.

1285
00:56:37,990 --> 00:56:38,690
All right.

1286
00:56:38,690 --> 00:56:39,890
PROFESSOR: Thank you.

1287
00:56:39,890 --> 00:56:40,723
AUDIENCE: All right.

1288
00:56:40,723 --> 00:56:41,740
Thanks.