1 00:00:00,060 --> 00:00:02,500 The following content is provided under a Creative 2 00:00:02,500 --> 00:00:04,019 Commons license. 3 00:00:04,019 --> 00:00:06,360 Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare 4 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:10,730 continue to offer high quality educational resources for free. 5 00:00:10,730 --> 00:00:13,330 To make a donation or view additional materials 6 00:00:13,330 --> 00:00:17,215 from hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare 7 00:00:17,215 --> 00:00:17,840 at ocw.mit.edu. 8 00:00:21,980 --> 00:00:23,130 PROFESSOR 1: OK. 9 00:00:23,130 --> 00:00:27,450 Just a few announcements before we get into the lecture today. 10 00:00:27,450 --> 00:00:30,680 So the structure for today-- our lecture, two hours' 11 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,630 work in your groups. 12 00:00:33,630 --> 00:00:37,825 We have, unfortunately, Elle, the grad student 13 00:00:37,825 --> 00:00:39,570 who's working with the heat wave, who 14 00:00:39,570 --> 00:00:42,050 would be using the heat wave game, is sick today. 15 00:00:42,050 --> 00:00:43,930 So she won't be able to come in. 16 00:00:43,930 --> 00:00:47,430 But I'm working on rescheduling a time for her to come in. 17 00:00:47,430 --> 00:00:51,370 What I'd love to do is if we can get her a web link of the heat 18 00:00:51,370 --> 00:00:54,020 wave game that she could then give you feedback on, 19 00:00:54,020 --> 00:00:57,160 that might be good for you all. 20 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,800 For the rest of the class, we've got Pablo in today. 21 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,375 He talked to the snap team already. 22 00:01:02,375 --> 00:01:04,000 Is he going to talk to you again today? 23 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,600 Or are you guys all on the right page with him? 24 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:08,520 STUDENT: It'd be nice to show him the game. 25 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:09,240 PROFESSOR 1: OK. 26 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:10,823 Oh, you didn't show him the game then? 27 00:01:10,823 --> 00:01:12,857 OK, cool, cool. 28 00:01:12,857 --> 00:01:14,440 What I'd like him to do is take a look 29 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,780 at the forecast-based future game 30 00:01:18,780 --> 00:01:20,685 today if he can at 2 o'clock. 31 00:01:20,685 --> 00:01:22,310 I'm going to just show him a build, get 32 00:01:22,310 --> 00:01:24,240 some feedback from him. 33 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,210 And then he'll take a look at the snap game. 34 00:01:26,210 --> 00:01:28,800 And then if he's got time, the two cholera games. 35 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,130 He can take a look at those. 36 00:01:31,130 --> 00:01:32,960 And again, if you want to give him 37 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:35,360 web links to playable versions of the games, 38 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,360 just send them to the Video Game Bosses list. 39 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,170 And I'll forward along. 40 00:01:40,170 --> 00:01:45,690 Other announcements-- I'm going to email this 41 00:01:45,690 --> 00:01:47,620 to the announcements list later today. 42 00:01:47,620 --> 00:01:52,230 This Friday there is a free conference workshop thing 43 00:01:52,230 --> 00:01:57,310 going on at a hotel, I think, in Boston. 44 00:01:57,310 --> 00:01:59,372 But it's being run by Epic Games, about Unreal. 45 00:01:59,372 --> 00:02:01,580 So they're going to do a bunch of different workshops 46 00:02:01,580 --> 00:02:04,400 from about 2:00 to 5:00 and end the day with a networking 47 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:05,520 party. 48 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,119 So if you're interested in using the Unreal engine and all 49 00:02:08,119 --> 00:02:09,910 the different new things about that engine, 50 00:02:09,910 --> 00:02:10,979 they'll be running that. 51 00:02:10,979 --> 00:02:14,390 They're also going to be on campus Tuesday at 5:00 PM, 52 00:02:14,390 --> 00:02:15,710 so Tuesday, November 18. 53 00:02:15,710 --> 00:02:19,280 That can be found at the GameLab website. 54 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,980 And they'll be talking about Blueprint, a way 55 00:02:23,980 --> 00:02:28,690 to do scripting in Unreal that's kind of similar to some things 56 00:02:28,690 --> 00:02:31,067 I've seen for Unity, but it's baked into Unreal. 57 00:02:31,067 --> 00:02:32,900 And if you used previous versions of Unreal, 58 00:02:32,900 --> 00:02:37,980 I think it's related to Akismet, if you used that tool before. 59 00:02:37,980 --> 00:02:41,470 Otherwise, upcoming guests we have at the class that are 60 00:02:41,470 --> 00:02:45,950 different from the syllabus-- on Monday we're going to have two 61 00:02:45,950 --> 00:02:49,265 writers and talking with Drew, doing a little panel and then 62 00:02:49,265 --> 00:02:52,810 a Q&A with y'all talking about different ways of looking 63 00:02:52,810 --> 00:02:55,760 at writing for games that I think would be very directly 64 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,940 related to at least two of the games that I've seen. 65 00:02:58,940 --> 00:03:01,820 Because yours was a very dialogue-driven game, yeah? 66 00:03:01,820 --> 00:03:05,310 And then the Animal Crossing kind of game, I imagine, 67 00:03:05,310 --> 00:03:06,809 would be really useful for you all. 68 00:03:06,809 --> 00:03:08,600 Probably useful for the other two, as well, 69 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,120 but those are the ones that first came to my mind 70 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,960 when I was scheduling that one. 71 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,194 And then on the 19th, we have Blizzard coming in, right? 72 00:03:17,194 --> 00:03:18,610 PROFESSOR 2: I think that's right. 73 00:03:18,610 --> 00:03:19,790 PROFESSOR 1: Yeah. 74 00:03:19,790 --> 00:03:22,470 So Wednesday night, Blizzard's going to come in. 75 00:03:22,470 --> 00:03:26,093 And it's teams from Heroes of the Storm? 76 00:03:26,093 --> 00:03:27,092 PROFESSOR 2: I think so. 77 00:03:27,092 --> 00:03:27,592 But-- 78 00:03:27,592 --> 00:03:29,967 PROFESSOR 1: But yeah, we're not quite sure exactly who's 79 00:03:29,967 --> 00:03:31,290 going to be there for that. 80 00:03:31,290 --> 00:03:32,206 But we talked to them. 81 00:03:32,206 --> 00:03:36,010 And we requested either Heroes of the Storm or Hearthstone. 82 00:03:36,010 --> 00:03:38,110 So one of those groups, we'll begin 83 00:03:38,110 --> 00:03:39,790 to talk about their production process. 84 00:03:39,790 --> 00:03:41,600 And you can ask them things about what 85 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:42,850 it's like to work at Blizzard. 86 00:03:45,350 --> 00:03:48,380 That's everything I've got. 87 00:03:48,380 --> 00:03:51,410 Yeah, so I'm going to bring it over to-- you're wired? 88 00:03:51,410 --> 00:03:51,920 Cool. 89 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:53,420 Great. 90 00:03:53,420 --> 00:03:58,800 PROFESSOR 2: So when I went over to GDC Next just last week, 91 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:00,210 I met Richard. 92 00:04:00,210 --> 00:04:02,060 Actually, he's been to all that before. 93 00:04:02,060 --> 00:04:04,310 And he gave this talk on game audio. 94 00:04:04,310 --> 00:04:05,869 And then I remembered, wait a minute, 95 00:04:05,869 --> 00:04:08,160 there's a talk on game audio that's coming up in class. 96 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:09,920 And I was just going to fake it. 97 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,566 And then I heard his talk and realized maybe 98 00:04:12,566 --> 00:04:14,440 he should be the one talking to you, instead. 99 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,790 So I invited him and Andy Forsberg, 100 00:04:16,790 --> 00:04:18,940 who's his partner at Hexany Audio. 101 00:04:18,940 --> 00:04:19,670 Let's see. 102 00:04:19,670 --> 00:04:22,220 You'll see the name of the company come up 103 00:04:22,220 --> 00:04:23,990 in the next slide. 104 00:04:23,990 --> 00:04:26,390 And they do professional sound design 105 00:04:26,390 --> 00:04:28,200 and audio design and music. 106 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,170 That includes things like sound effects, 107 00:04:31,170 --> 00:04:33,740 as well as scoring and also advising companies 108 00:04:33,740 --> 00:04:35,790 on things like the technology that they're using. 109 00:04:35,790 --> 00:04:37,248 And he's going to talk a little bit 110 00:04:37,248 --> 00:04:41,830 about how to do good audio on a budget, as well as just things 111 00:04:41,830 --> 00:04:44,310 to think about in your audio design of your own game. 112 00:04:44,310 --> 00:04:45,900 So I'm going to hand it over to you. 113 00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:48,140 And thank you very much for speaking today. 114 00:04:48,140 --> 00:04:48,470 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah. 115 00:04:48,470 --> 00:04:49,180 Well, thanks so much. 116 00:04:49,180 --> 00:04:49,888 Happy to be here. 117 00:04:49,888 --> 00:04:52,480 Just curious-- so the class, I'm wondering, what level is it? 118 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,130 Is it more introductory, advanced? 119 00:04:55,130 --> 00:04:56,860 What's the focus? 120 00:04:56,860 --> 00:04:58,130 PROFESSOR 2: Intermediate. 121 00:04:58,130 --> 00:04:59,960 So they're making video games. 122 00:04:59,960 --> 00:05:02,309 But it's a class that actually has prerequisites. 123 00:05:02,309 --> 00:05:04,850 So they needed to take another classes, either in game design 124 00:05:04,850 --> 00:05:06,180 or in programming, before they came here. 125 00:05:06,180 --> 00:05:06,971 RICHARD LUDLOW: OK. 126 00:05:06,971 --> 00:05:07,590 Cool, cool. 127 00:05:07,590 --> 00:05:10,240 So I'm just curious-- show of hands, how many people 128 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,090 are planning to go out into the world 129 00:05:12,090 --> 00:05:14,040 after you graduate and become game designers, 130 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,060 game developers? 131 00:05:16,060 --> 00:05:16,560 Anyone? 132 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:17,059 Anyone? 133 00:05:17,059 --> 00:05:18,115 OK, cool, cool. 134 00:05:18,115 --> 00:05:20,080 Nice. 135 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:20,580 That's cool. 136 00:05:20,580 --> 00:05:21,454 ANDY FORSBERG: Sweet. 137 00:05:21,454 --> 00:05:22,174 No, very nice. 138 00:05:22,174 --> 00:05:23,090 RICHARD LUDLOW: Great. 139 00:05:23,090 --> 00:05:26,210 So yeah, we're going to talk to you about music 140 00:05:26,210 --> 00:05:30,950 and sound in games and then give a little bit of very practical 141 00:05:30,950 --> 00:05:32,916 advice about working with composers 142 00:05:32,916 --> 00:05:34,290 and working with sound designers. 143 00:05:34,290 --> 00:05:38,371 And so that's the situation most of you will probably be in. 144 00:05:38,371 --> 00:05:40,370 So we'll give you a little overview of ourselves 145 00:05:40,370 --> 00:05:41,110 in a second. 146 00:05:41,110 --> 00:05:42,901 But if you want to go on to the next slide, 147 00:05:42,901 --> 00:05:47,280 we're going to talk about three key areas. 148 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:51,050 Yeah, we're just going to tag team this. 149 00:05:51,050 --> 00:05:53,130 So the three things we're going to talk about 150 00:05:53,130 --> 00:05:55,694 are, number one, Interactivity. 151 00:05:55,694 --> 00:05:57,360 So we're going to talk to you about what 152 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,860 makes game audio different than film audio 153 00:05:59,860 --> 00:06:01,740 and why you should care about it. 154 00:06:01,740 --> 00:06:03,790 And then in Agreements, we're going 155 00:06:03,790 --> 00:06:07,880 to talk about contracts and what that looks like for you hiring 156 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,330 a composer or a sound designer, which is really most often 157 00:06:10,330 --> 00:06:11,770 the case with an indy game. 158 00:06:11,770 --> 00:06:14,130 And then lastly, we'll talk about money and budgets 159 00:06:14,130 --> 00:06:19,030 and how much hiring one of us audio guys takes. 160 00:06:19,030 --> 00:06:23,910 So a little bit about us-- I'm Richard Ludlow, again. 161 00:06:23,910 --> 00:06:26,090 And I'm the audio director of our company. 162 00:06:26,090 --> 00:06:28,690 And Andy is the music director. 163 00:06:28,690 --> 00:06:31,580 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah we both went to school in Boston, actually. 164 00:06:31,580 --> 00:06:33,371 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah, just across the river 165 00:06:33,371 --> 00:06:36,610 over at Berkeley and did their game audio thing. 166 00:06:36,610 --> 00:06:39,420 And now we started the company Hexany Audio. 167 00:06:39,420 --> 00:06:42,830 And basically, music, sound, and dialogue, as well as 168 00:06:42,830 --> 00:06:46,265 implementation services are what we do with our clients. 169 00:06:46,265 --> 00:06:48,640 ANDY FORSBERG: And we're based in Los Angeles, obviously. 170 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,330 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah, based in LA. 171 00:06:50,330 --> 00:06:56,360 And we have experience working on larger AAA console 172 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,750 games, lots of mobile indie things, so a really wide range. 173 00:07:00,750 --> 00:07:02,680 And we do film and commercial media, as well. 174 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,200 But our focus really is on games and interactivity 175 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,580 and the technology that drives that. 176 00:07:08,580 --> 00:07:11,740 So yeah, without further ado, if you want 177 00:07:11,740 --> 00:07:15,567 to jump ahead to The Basics. 178 00:07:15,567 --> 00:07:16,900 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah, absolutely. 179 00:07:16,900 --> 00:07:23,240 So music in games is all about the dynamic experience 180 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,660 and player input in the game and how the music and sound 181 00:07:26,660 --> 00:07:27,850 effects adapt around that. 182 00:07:27,850 --> 00:07:30,370 Obviously, it's much different than linear media, 183 00:07:30,370 --> 00:07:32,410 such as film, TV, et cetera. 184 00:07:32,410 --> 00:07:34,225 When you watch a film, that same explosion 185 00:07:34,225 --> 00:07:36,400 is going to happen in the same point every time. 186 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,040 So obviously, with games we have to change that. 187 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:40,390 Because games are different. 188 00:07:40,390 --> 00:07:42,950 We have to make it adaptive to what's going on. 189 00:07:42,950 --> 00:07:47,190 So there's four major parts to audio in a game usually. 190 00:07:47,190 --> 00:07:48,030 There's the music. 191 00:07:48,030 --> 00:07:49,890 There's the sound and the dialogue. 192 00:07:49,890 --> 00:07:51,520 But the major part of this, again, 193 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,600 is the implementation into the game. 194 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,890 If we write amazing music or sound effects 195 00:07:55,890 --> 00:07:58,690 or we have the coolest voiceover artists in the world 196 00:07:58,690 --> 00:08:00,940 and we get them to do that stuff for our game-- 197 00:08:00,940 --> 00:08:03,884 if we implement it incorrectly or the developer doesn't 198 00:08:03,884 --> 00:08:05,550 do such a great job because there wasn't 199 00:08:05,550 --> 00:08:08,360 a dialogue between us, then all the stuff 200 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,140 on the left side, those three things, 201 00:08:10,140 --> 00:08:11,570 almost don't even matter. 202 00:08:11,570 --> 00:08:14,320 So it's all about how it gets put in the game, 203 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:15,515 as well as how it's crafted. 204 00:08:15,515 --> 00:08:17,140 RICHARD LUDLOW: And we're going to talk 205 00:08:17,140 --> 00:08:18,764 about that in the Interactivity section 206 00:08:18,764 --> 00:08:20,700 if you're like, what is this implementation 207 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:22,240 witchcraft we speak of? 208 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:23,270 ANDY FORSBERG: Exactly. 209 00:08:23,270 --> 00:08:23,780 RICHARD LUDLOW: Anyway. 210 00:08:23,780 --> 00:08:24,420 ANDY FORSBERG: Next slide? 211 00:08:24,420 --> 00:08:25,295 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah. 212 00:08:25,295 --> 00:08:27,559 So The Importance of Audio-- really talking 213 00:08:27,559 --> 00:08:29,350 about why you guys should care about audio. 214 00:08:29,350 --> 00:08:32,287 Because so often you think, OK, I've got this mobile game. 215 00:08:32,287 --> 00:08:33,620 I'm going to shut off the audio. 216 00:08:33,620 --> 00:08:34,500 Who cares about it? 217 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:37,880 But the depth that it adds is really important. 218 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,574 And we'd just like to touch on three key areas of why 219 00:08:41,574 --> 00:08:43,990 music and sound is so important in games, if you want to-- 220 00:08:43,990 --> 00:08:44,823 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah. 221 00:08:44,823 --> 00:08:48,020 The first thing, obviously, the emotional factor. 222 00:08:48,020 --> 00:08:51,440 And you can't get around that. 223 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,340 With everything else, basically, audio 224 00:08:54,340 --> 00:08:56,710 goes straight to the center of your brain 225 00:08:56,710 --> 00:08:58,830 that controls that stuff. 226 00:08:58,830 --> 00:09:01,730 It just skips everything else and stimulates that. 227 00:09:01,730 --> 00:09:05,920 So obviously, when we were kids we 228 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,150 turned the music off of a game or turned the music off 229 00:09:09,150 --> 00:09:10,650 of a film, and we'd realize that we 230 00:09:10,650 --> 00:09:12,650 weren't having those emotional responses that we 231 00:09:12,650 --> 00:09:14,320 did when it was on. 232 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,295 So obviously, emotion is a huge part of what we do. 233 00:09:17,295 --> 00:09:18,170 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah. 234 00:09:18,170 --> 00:09:20,470 And that's a chemical response. 235 00:09:20,470 --> 00:09:24,570 Like Andy said, it's actually eliciting-- just 236 00:09:24,570 --> 00:09:26,860 emphasize again-- a chemical response. 237 00:09:26,860 --> 00:09:30,570 Visuals do not trigger these emotional processing centers. 238 00:09:30,570 --> 00:09:32,280 It's sound and music. 239 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,040 That's stimulating parts of your brain that are different 240 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:37,920 and actually creating the emotion. 241 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,440 It's pretty amazing. 242 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,930 At least we like to think so. [LAUGHS] Anyway, cool. 243 00:09:42,930 --> 00:09:45,050 So the next one is Function. 244 00:09:45,050 --> 00:09:46,630 And this isn't a great term. 245 00:09:46,630 --> 00:09:52,100 But audio, it supports the ability 246 00:09:52,100 --> 00:09:55,570 for the player to really absorb a lot of the game information. 247 00:09:55,570 --> 00:09:59,330 So when I say "function," it has the function 248 00:09:59,330 --> 00:10:00,950 of giving you information and also 249 00:10:00,950 --> 00:10:03,134 the function of telling you what's going on 250 00:10:03,134 --> 00:10:04,300 with regards to your action. 251 00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:06,460 So for example, you're walking down a hallway. 252 00:10:06,460 --> 00:10:12,329 And there's a guy up ahead that you hear maybe walking. 253 00:10:12,329 --> 00:10:14,120 And you know, OK, there's a guard up ahead. 254 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,240 And then maybe your oxygen tank is running low. 255 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:17,531 And you've got a little "beep." 256 00:10:17,531 --> 00:10:19,739 And your health is maybe at 50%. 257 00:10:19,739 --> 00:10:21,780 Maybe there's an alarm going off in the building. 258 00:10:21,780 --> 00:10:23,370 You hear a guy in the next room. 259 00:10:26,301 --> 00:10:27,800 You hear all these different things. 260 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,191 And all of that is information that's being processed and sent 261 00:10:31,191 --> 00:10:31,690 to you. 262 00:10:31,690 --> 00:10:33,640 And you're able to absorb it all instantly 263 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,550 without needing to think and see text on the screen that says, 264 00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:40,720 oh, OK, I'm at 50% oxygen. There's three enemies nearby. 265 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,770 It's getting dark out because I hear the crickets. 266 00:10:43,770 --> 00:10:47,580 This is just stuff that your brain subconsciously absorbs. 267 00:10:47,580 --> 00:10:49,800 So it's functional in that it provides 268 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,410 that information for players in an entirely new dimension that 269 00:10:54,410 --> 00:10:55,480 is subconscious to them. 270 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,452 So you can convey lots of subconscious information. 271 00:10:58,452 --> 00:10:59,410 ANDY FORSBERG: Exactly. 272 00:10:59,410 --> 00:11:00,020 RICHARD LUDLOW: And then also, it's 273 00:11:00,020 --> 00:11:01,640 that feel-good factor for games. 274 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,690 So you punch a guy. 275 00:11:04,690 --> 00:11:06,640 Oh, well, hold up on that maybe. 276 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,400 But yeah, you punch a guy. 277 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:13,430 And it feels good in the game. 278 00:11:13,430 --> 00:11:18,680 And that is because of that trigger, the sound meshing 279 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:20,860 with the psychological. 280 00:11:20,860 --> 00:11:22,530 Anyway, so the sounds we were talking 281 00:11:22,530 --> 00:11:24,613 about that are memorable-- I know you just played, 282 00:11:24,613 --> 00:11:26,570 what was that, the Zelda sound or something? 283 00:11:26,570 --> 00:11:27,430 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah. 284 00:11:27,430 --> 00:11:29,280 RICHARD LUDLOW: I couldn't quite hear. 285 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:30,010 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah, it obviously 286 00:11:30,010 --> 00:11:32,240 has to be memorable with game audio, as well. 287 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,760 And yeah, you played the Zelda one. 288 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,947 Think of the countdown for Mario Kart 289 00:11:37,947 --> 00:11:40,530 where it makes you want to hit A really fast and get everyone, 290 00:11:40,530 --> 00:11:44,666 obviously-- but there's countless examples. 291 00:11:44,666 --> 00:11:45,290 We might have-- 292 00:11:45,290 --> 00:11:47,775 [VIDEO GAME SOUND] 293 00:11:50,055 --> 00:11:51,930 RICHARD LUDLOW: You could just play them all. 294 00:11:51,930 --> 00:11:54,320 Just play them all. 295 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,048 ANDY FORSBERG: Let's see. 296 00:11:56,048 --> 00:11:58,172 RICHARD LUDLOW: I'm not sure if you've played them. 297 00:11:58,172 --> 00:11:59,255 But I'll just talk about-- 298 00:11:59,255 --> 00:12:01,410 [COUNTDOWN SOUNDS] 299 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,720 So these are really iconic sounds. 300 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,770 And I think the Mario coin sound is next. 301 00:12:08,770 --> 00:12:10,243 Let's see. 302 00:12:10,243 --> 00:12:11,720 [COIN SOUND] 303 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,930 So that sound has been in an entire generation of games. 304 00:12:15,930 --> 00:12:18,650 And the Zelda sound, when you hear that, 305 00:12:18,650 --> 00:12:20,890 that's extremely rewarding for the player. 306 00:12:20,890 --> 00:12:22,560 It's extremely memorable. 307 00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:25,710 Sound is burned into a player's conscience 308 00:12:25,710 --> 00:12:28,180 in a way that doesn't necessarily 309 00:12:28,180 --> 00:12:29,357 happen with visuals. 310 00:12:29,357 --> 00:12:31,940 You hear that. [SNAPS] And then you hear the achievement sound 311 00:12:31,940 --> 00:12:32,470 that we played. 312 00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:34,053 And it's like, oh, I've unlocked that. 313 00:12:34,053 --> 00:12:37,870 There's this stimulating reward response. 314 00:12:37,870 --> 00:12:40,066 And so good sound and bad sound is going 315 00:12:40,066 --> 00:12:41,190 to stick with your players. 316 00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:43,540 And it can really help set that game 317 00:12:43,540 --> 00:12:47,070 apart so that later on the players 318 00:12:47,070 --> 00:12:51,500 are remembering your game in a very unique way. 319 00:12:51,500 --> 00:12:52,180 Anyway-- 320 00:12:52,180 --> 00:12:52,670 ANDY FORSBERG: Next slide. 321 00:12:52,670 --> 00:12:53,970 RICHARD LUDLOW: We'll move on to the real stuff now. 322 00:12:53,970 --> 00:12:55,360 So Interactivity. 323 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:56,630 That was kind of the preface. 324 00:12:56,630 --> 00:12:58,370 So the first section that we talk about 325 00:12:58,370 --> 00:13:02,030 is it that implementation and how that works in games. 326 00:13:02,030 --> 00:13:04,460 And that interactivity is a huge part of that. 327 00:13:04,460 --> 00:13:07,030 So if you want to jump ahead to the next slide-- 328 00:13:07,030 --> 00:13:08,010 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah. 329 00:13:08,010 --> 00:13:11,005 So on the music side of things, obviously, if you want music 330 00:13:11,005 --> 00:13:14,270 that changes dynamically based on what the player is doing, 331 00:13:14,270 --> 00:13:15,820 whether he's walking into a field 332 00:13:15,820 --> 00:13:18,650 and staying there for five hours because he left it on 333 00:13:18,650 --> 00:13:21,550 to go make a sandwich or because he's walking in to buy 334 00:13:21,550 --> 00:13:23,190 something from a shopkeeper. 335 00:13:23,190 --> 00:13:24,130 So how do we do that? 336 00:13:24,130 --> 00:13:25,546 There are several different things 337 00:13:25,546 --> 00:13:29,120 we can do, whether a player's going into battle, et cetera. 338 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,640 We can use one system called layering, which Richard's going 339 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,910 to talk about in another slide. 340 00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:35,955 We're going to talk about crossfading. 341 00:13:35,955 --> 00:13:38,330 And then we're going to give you an example of branching, 342 00:13:38,330 --> 00:13:39,265 as well. 343 00:13:39,265 --> 00:13:40,640 And then there's also generative. 344 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:41,681 And these are just a few. 345 00:13:41,681 --> 00:13:46,620 There are so many options that we can use to implement music 346 00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:48,005 in a cool, interactive way. 347 00:13:48,005 --> 00:13:48,880 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah. 348 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,809 So let's jump over to one of the examples. 349 00:13:50,809 --> 00:13:52,100 And go ahead and throw that up. 350 00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:53,900 Don't hit the Play button quite yet. 351 00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:57,390 So you can hit the next slide. 352 00:13:57,390 --> 00:13:58,621 And it'll pop up the graph. 353 00:13:58,621 --> 00:13:59,120 All right. 354 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:04,830 So what you're seeing here is the idea of a layered score. 355 00:14:04,830 --> 00:14:08,140 So in this one, this is a piece of music I wrote for a game 356 00:14:08,140 --> 00:14:10,820 where there's three different intensity layers. 357 00:14:10,820 --> 00:14:14,337 And you're going to hear a first one that's very low intensity. 358 00:14:14,337 --> 00:14:16,670 And then you're going to hear these other layers come in 359 00:14:16,670 --> 00:14:21,010 on top as maybe the player starts to go 360 00:14:21,010 --> 00:14:22,210 into an area with enemies. 361 00:14:22,210 --> 00:14:25,010 And then they go into an area where they're in battle. 362 00:14:25,010 --> 00:14:28,031 And you'll hear the music stack in a very dynamic way. 363 00:14:28,031 --> 00:14:29,280 Anyway, go ahead and hit play. 364 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:30,289 Let's see. 365 00:14:30,289 --> 00:14:34,201 [MUSIC PLAYING] 366 00:14:34,201 --> 00:14:35,668 So that low intensity. 367 00:14:41,550 --> 00:14:43,778 Players done some [INAUDIBLE]. 368 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,490 The second layer's going to come in on top. 369 00:14:56,945 --> 00:15:00,410 [MUSIC INTENSIFIES] 370 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,300 You hear all three layers, though, I think. 371 00:15:15,770 --> 00:15:19,164 Back to just the first two. 372 00:15:19,164 --> 00:15:20,330 And then just the first one. 373 00:15:20,330 --> 00:15:21,670 So you can see this as well. 374 00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:24,510 You could hear the layers fading out in and between one another. 375 00:15:24,510 --> 00:15:26,340 But it was a very dynamic experience. 376 00:15:26,340 --> 00:15:28,150 So this is where we'd take the music, 377 00:15:28,150 --> 00:15:30,540 and we'd specifically craft it and write it 378 00:15:30,540 --> 00:15:33,940 so that these things could stack and be triggered dynamically 379 00:15:33,940 --> 00:15:35,690 based on whatever the player is doing. 380 00:15:35,690 --> 00:15:39,517 So let's jump ahead to the next slide. 381 00:15:39,517 --> 00:15:41,100 So this is one more example-- and this 382 00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:44,030 is the last one we'll show you for music-- 383 00:15:44,030 --> 00:15:48,130 that deals with the way that music can move dynamically 384 00:15:48,130 --> 00:15:49,170 between states again. 385 00:15:49,170 --> 00:15:51,610 So yeah, so we've got the low, medium, high. 386 00:15:51,610 --> 00:15:53,580 But this time, we've broken it out 387 00:15:53,580 --> 00:15:55,580 into smaller, little chunks. 388 00:15:55,580 --> 00:15:57,220 So the player will do something. 389 00:15:57,220 --> 00:15:59,820 And the musical will actually wait until the musical point, 390 00:15:59,820 --> 00:16:01,720 like the next bar or beat. 391 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,100 And then it will begin a transitional segment 392 00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:06,862 into the next level intensities. 393 00:16:06,862 --> 00:16:09,070 And this is going to be a much more dynamic and fluid 394 00:16:09,070 --> 00:16:10,520 experience than the layering. 395 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,730 So go ahead and hit Play. 396 00:16:14,730 --> 00:16:16,940 [AMBIENT MUSIC] 397 00:16:16,940 --> 00:16:18,090 Low intensity, again. 398 00:16:27,414 --> 00:16:29,020 So a player's going to do something. 399 00:16:29,020 --> 00:16:31,406 And it's going to come in with the transition. 400 00:16:31,406 --> 00:16:32,720 [MUSIC INTENSIFIES] 401 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,324 Transition. 402 00:16:34,324 --> 00:16:37,803 [MUSIC PLAYING] 403 00:16:41,282 --> 00:16:44,264 Now we're going to go into medium. 404 00:16:44,264 --> 00:16:45,258 We're in medium. 405 00:16:56,225 --> 00:16:57,683 The player's going to do something. 406 00:16:57,683 --> 00:16:59,808 And the music's going to wait to do the transition. 407 00:17:02,653 --> 00:17:04,144 Transition. 408 00:17:04,144 --> 00:17:07,126 [MUSIC CHANGES] 409 00:17:10,108 --> 00:17:14,084 Now it's running the high. 410 00:17:14,084 --> 00:17:17,563 [MUSIC PLAYING] 411 00:17:24,590 --> 00:17:27,006 The music's going to wait and then go into the transition. 412 00:17:38,965 --> 00:17:40,950 And back to low. 413 00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:41,450 Cool. 414 00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:44,210 So you saw the music move through-- one, two, three, 415 00:17:44,210 --> 00:17:46,695 four-- six different pieces there. 416 00:17:46,695 --> 00:17:49,180 But it sounded like the experience was being scored. 417 00:17:49,180 --> 00:17:51,870 So again, the idea here is we're trying to-- again, 418 00:17:51,870 --> 00:17:53,200 with the film, you watch it. 419 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:53,700 It goes by. 420 00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:54,600 You know what's going to happen. 421 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,725 We don't know what's going to happen with the game. 422 00:17:56,725 --> 00:17:59,380 So we write music that can change and adapt 423 00:17:59,380 --> 00:18:02,530 like that, in a very film-like way 424 00:18:02,530 --> 00:18:04,090 to score the player experience. 425 00:18:04,090 --> 00:18:06,407 So why do we do this? 426 00:18:06,407 --> 00:18:08,740 ANDY FORSBERG: So obviously, it creates a more immersive 427 00:18:08,740 --> 00:18:10,400 and dynamic player experience. 428 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,010 Any time we are taking you guys out 429 00:18:13,010 --> 00:18:17,240 of that escapist experience, we're not doing our job. 430 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,630 It extends track longevity, which 431 00:18:19,630 --> 00:18:23,840 we'll explain later with budgets why that's nice, as well. 432 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,190 But you get better replay value out of it. 433 00:18:26,190 --> 00:18:29,280 And it's the greatest value from each individual minute 434 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:30,125 of music. 435 00:18:30,125 --> 00:18:32,682 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah, instead of having to hire someone 436 00:18:32,682 --> 00:18:34,390 to write three different pieces of music, 437 00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:36,034 if you're on a budget, you can say, 438 00:18:36,034 --> 00:18:37,200 we'll do one piece of music. 439 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,335 And we'll make it layered. 440 00:18:38,335 --> 00:18:39,960 And it'll be one better piece of music. 441 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:40,918 ANDY FORSBERG: Exactly. 442 00:18:40,918 --> 00:18:44,674 Because if a movie is 90 minutes long 443 00:18:44,674 --> 00:18:46,090 and they want 60 minutes of music, 444 00:18:46,090 --> 00:18:47,690 you write 60 minutes of music. 445 00:18:47,690 --> 00:18:50,840 One small mobile game could have 15 minutes of music. 446 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,430 Or it could have one minute of music or three minutes. 447 00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:54,180 So it all depends. 448 00:18:54,180 --> 00:18:55,055 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah. 449 00:18:55,055 --> 00:18:57,190 And that goes into-- we'll talk about with budgets 450 00:18:57,190 --> 00:18:58,910 how that affects that. 451 00:18:58,910 --> 00:19:00,980 But so yeah, jumping onto the next slide, 452 00:19:00,980 --> 00:19:03,500 how do we do these interactive systems? 453 00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:05,930 We build them with what we call audio middleware. 454 00:19:05,930 --> 00:19:09,410 And two of the commercial ones are FMOD, that you see here. 455 00:19:09,410 --> 00:19:11,810 And if you want to jump ahead to the next one-- Wwise. 456 00:19:11,810 --> 00:19:13,610 And these are just screenshots. 457 00:19:13,610 --> 00:19:18,010 And essentially, these allow us to interface with programmers 458 00:19:18,010 --> 00:19:21,050 and set up these musical triggers and these points 459 00:19:21,050 --> 00:19:24,500 of musical change based on different parameters, 460 00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:27,870 like number of enemies around or game state or health, 461 00:19:27,870 --> 00:19:30,340 and let us set up these musical transitions 462 00:19:30,340 --> 00:19:31,730 and things like that. 463 00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:35,650 So yeah, we can jump onto the next section. 464 00:19:35,650 --> 00:19:36,425 Agreements. 465 00:19:36,425 --> 00:19:39,337 So you've learned all about interactivity. 466 00:19:39,337 --> 00:19:40,920 And you're like, yes, this is awesome. 467 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,339 I'm going to hire a game composer 468 00:19:42,339 --> 00:19:43,630 so that they can do this stuff. 469 00:19:43,630 --> 00:19:48,560 And then with music, though, it's 470 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,870 obviously a creative piece of content. 471 00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:52,750 So the agreements look a little different 472 00:19:52,750 --> 00:19:54,100 sometimes than other agreements. 473 00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:56,700 And so we're going to show you three different kinds. 474 00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:57,533 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah. 475 00:19:57,533 --> 00:19:59,050 So the purposes of these contracts 476 00:19:59,050 --> 00:20:02,210 are, obviously, to see who owns it, obviously, 477 00:20:02,210 --> 00:20:03,650 first and foremost. 478 00:20:03,650 --> 00:20:06,236 What we're going to be delivering to you. 479 00:20:06,236 --> 00:20:09,120 What the delivery milestones are in a game just as 480 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:11,012 there's development milestones. 481 00:20:11,012 --> 00:20:12,470 How much you guys are paying, which 482 00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:14,670 is super important for you and us. 483 00:20:14,670 --> 00:20:18,140 And what's your rights as a developer? 484 00:20:18,140 --> 00:20:19,210 Where can you use it? 485 00:20:19,210 --> 00:20:21,350 Can you go around and license it to use it 486 00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:24,500 in all the things involved with your project or no? 487 00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:26,360 And what are our usage rights? 488 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:29,420 Can we use it in our portfolio, on our Facebook page? 489 00:20:29,420 --> 00:20:31,214 Can we do that sort of thing? 490 00:20:31,214 --> 00:20:33,505 So we're just going to go through a few of the contract 491 00:20:33,505 --> 00:20:34,550 types here. 492 00:20:34,550 --> 00:20:34,740 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah. 493 00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:37,150 And it's really important to spell out all those things. 494 00:20:37,150 --> 00:20:38,720 So yeah, let's look at the first one. 495 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,030 Work for Hire. 496 00:20:40,030 --> 00:20:41,890 This is the most common type of agreement 497 00:20:41,890 --> 00:20:43,380 that you run into with composers. 498 00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:45,690 And it's essentially where I'm the composer, 499 00:20:45,690 --> 00:20:49,530 I've written music, and I am selling you my music or sound. 500 00:20:49,530 --> 00:20:50,720 You're buying it from me. 501 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,910 And you're taking all the rights for it as a developer. 502 00:20:53,910 --> 00:20:59,050 You become the owners of the music and sound. 503 00:20:59,050 --> 00:21:01,520 And so you've got the rights associated with it. 504 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,740 And because you have the rights, the developer then 505 00:21:03,740 --> 00:21:05,180 can usually use the audio however 506 00:21:05,180 --> 00:21:06,250 they want in the project. 507 00:21:06,250 --> 00:21:08,740 Because you own it. 508 00:21:08,740 --> 00:21:11,410 You've also got the exclusive right to use the audio, 509 00:21:11,410 --> 00:21:13,506 meaning you're the only ones that can use it. 510 00:21:13,506 --> 00:21:15,380 I can't go around and turn around and sell it 511 00:21:15,380 --> 00:21:16,940 to Bob or Joe over there. 512 00:21:16,940 --> 00:21:17,880 You've bought it. 513 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:18,900 It's yours. 514 00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:21,910 And then lastly-- this is the disadvantage 515 00:21:21,910 --> 00:21:24,860 for developers-- is that this is a more expensive agreement. 516 00:21:24,860 --> 00:21:27,860 Because you are buying out all of our rights. 517 00:21:27,860 --> 00:21:30,720 And I'm going to show in detail in a few slides 518 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,460 some important clauses to be aware of in these contracts. 519 00:21:34,460 --> 00:21:37,710 But yeah, so let's talk about on the other end of the spectrum. 520 00:21:37,710 --> 00:21:41,430 We've got work for hire, where you and me-- the composer 521 00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:42,850 selling the developer my rights. 522 00:21:42,850 --> 00:21:45,434 And then on the other end of the spectrum, we've got licenses. 523 00:21:45,434 --> 00:21:46,308 ANDY FORSBERG: Right. 524 00:21:46,308 --> 00:21:47,870 So we have two sorts of licenses. 525 00:21:47,870 --> 00:21:50,370 The first we'll talk about is the non-exclusive. 526 00:21:50,370 --> 00:21:52,500 So this means that we are retaining 527 00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:54,500 the rights of the music, sound effects, anything 528 00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:55,480 we do for your project. 529 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,950 We could go around and turn it to another game, et cetera. 530 00:21:57,950 --> 00:21:59,900 However, don't be afraid of these. 531 00:21:59,900 --> 00:22:01,900 We're writing the same custom music 532 00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:04,690 for your game, which is super important to remember. 533 00:22:04,690 --> 00:22:07,230 You're getting the same exact product. 534 00:22:07,230 --> 00:22:08,900 It's obviously a lot cheaper. 535 00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:12,870 And it's a great way to save yourself some money when 536 00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:15,290 working with people like us. 537 00:22:15,290 --> 00:22:17,210 And again, you can still have unrestricted 538 00:22:17,210 --> 00:22:19,730 use of the audio in your project and things involved 539 00:22:19,730 --> 00:22:20,740 with that usually. 540 00:22:20,740 --> 00:22:24,650 But again, we could turn around and use this for whatever we 541 00:22:24,650 --> 00:22:26,940 would like to use it for. 542 00:22:26,940 --> 00:22:28,540 So yeah, those are the main reasons-- 543 00:22:28,540 --> 00:22:30,680 RICHARD LUDLOW: And we use this negotiating with developers 544 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:31,267 all the time. 545 00:22:31,267 --> 00:22:33,350 So if they don't want to buy out all of our rights 546 00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:35,225 and pay that full price, we'll say, OK, well, 547 00:22:35,225 --> 00:22:37,634 we'll retain the right to go sell it to Bob and Joe 548 00:22:37,634 --> 00:22:39,050 and still give you the same music. 549 00:22:41,019 --> 00:22:42,810 ANDY FORSBERG: And then we have, obviously, 550 00:22:42,810 --> 00:22:48,480 the exclusive license, which is you're going 551 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,370 to retain all of the rights. 552 00:22:50,370 --> 00:22:52,850 But it's usually for a certain amount of time. 553 00:22:52,850 --> 00:22:55,280 And then those rights transfer back to us. 554 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,430 And sometimes it's industry-specific. 555 00:22:57,430 --> 00:23:02,609 So we might be able to use that audio in a trailer or a film 556 00:23:02,609 --> 00:23:03,150 or something. 557 00:23:03,150 --> 00:23:06,000 However, pertaining to the game or anything in the game world, 558 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,114 we're not going to turn around and license that 559 00:23:08,114 --> 00:23:08,780 to someone else. 560 00:23:08,780 --> 00:23:12,460 Usually this lasts about one to five years. 561 00:23:12,460 --> 00:23:14,320 We like to call this the happy medium 562 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,940 between the work for hire and the non-exclusive license. 563 00:23:18,940 --> 00:23:22,650 And it really is a healthy balance of price and control. 564 00:23:22,650 --> 00:23:25,440 Because it's right in the middle as far as price is concerned. 565 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,020 And everyone's happy. 566 00:23:27,020 --> 00:23:29,170 You guys could use it for what you need. 567 00:23:29,170 --> 00:23:31,335 But then we also get those rights back. eventually. 568 00:23:31,335 --> 00:23:32,210 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah. 569 00:23:32,210 --> 00:23:34,540 So work for hire-- I make the music. 570 00:23:34,540 --> 00:23:35,260 I'm the composer. 571 00:23:35,260 --> 00:23:36,180 I sell it to you. 572 00:23:36,180 --> 00:23:37,220 You get all the rights. 573 00:23:37,220 --> 00:23:38,960 Non-exclusive-- I'm the composer. 574 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,040 I make the music. 575 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,040 I retain all the rights. 576 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,456 And I can sell it to other people. 577 00:23:42,456 --> 00:23:44,420 With exclusive, I'm the composer. 578 00:23:44,420 --> 00:23:45,277 I make the music. 579 00:23:45,277 --> 00:23:46,110 I retain the rights. 580 00:23:46,110 --> 00:23:49,370 But I give you the exclusive right to it. 581 00:23:49,370 --> 00:23:51,010 So I can't sell it to anyone else. 582 00:23:51,010 --> 00:23:52,630 And then it usually reverts back to us 583 00:23:52,630 --> 00:23:55,750 after a brief time, as discussed. 584 00:23:55,750 --> 00:23:58,211 So most common, though, is the work for hire. 585 00:23:58,211 --> 00:24:00,710 And you're seeing that contract, and you're like, oh my god. 586 00:24:00,710 --> 00:24:01,293 This is awful. 587 00:24:01,293 --> 00:24:02,770 I don't want to see this. 588 00:24:02,770 --> 00:24:05,680 But anyway, let's jump through that really quick 589 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,250 and just a few key points that really go to developers 590 00:24:10,250 --> 00:24:12,200 helping protect themselves. 591 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,437 And I've got to hit Play over here on my key notes 592 00:24:15,437 --> 00:24:17,520 so that I can see all the different slide changes. 593 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,330 One second. 594 00:24:20,330 --> 00:24:21,090 OK, cool. 595 00:24:21,090 --> 00:24:22,610 So the first thing is services. 596 00:24:22,610 --> 00:24:26,460 It's like, what are you paying for music, sound, dialogue? 597 00:24:26,460 --> 00:24:27,570 What are you buying? 598 00:24:27,570 --> 00:24:28,653 This will be really quick. 599 00:24:28,653 --> 00:24:31,630 Jumping onto the next one, so payment for services-- 600 00:24:31,630 --> 00:24:32,800 what are you getting paid? 601 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,140 You want to spell out exactly how much you're going to charge 602 00:24:36,140 --> 00:24:41,116 and how much you're going to pay for the music and sound. 603 00:24:41,116 --> 00:24:43,490 Next point, and this is the independent contractor point. 604 00:24:43,490 --> 00:24:45,530 That's important for you as a developer. 605 00:24:45,530 --> 00:24:49,620 Because this essentially says that the composer or sound 606 00:24:49,620 --> 00:24:53,570 designer you're hiring is not on salary 607 00:24:53,570 --> 00:24:55,390 and does not need benefits. 608 00:24:55,390 --> 00:24:57,510 They have to take care of their own taxes. 609 00:24:57,510 --> 00:24:59,030 It just protects the developers. 610 00:24:59,030 --> 00:25:03,100 So they make everything clear there. 611 00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:05,310 Next, warranties. 612 00:25:05,310 --> 00:25:07,890 These are things, again, that protect you, as the developer. 613 00:25:07,890 --> 00:25:10,700 So this says, OK, the music we're writing, its original. 614 00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:12,870 We're not stealing John Williams' music, as I always 615 00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:13,130 say. 616 00:25:13,130 --> 00:25:14,780 ANDY FORSBERG: [HUMMING] score game. 617 00:25:14,780 --> 00:25:16,740 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yes, right. [CHUCKLES] 618 00:25:16,740 --> 00:25:20,536 But then if we do steal it-- and we're not going to steal it. 619 00:25:20,536 --> 00:25:22,410 And there are some other warranties, as well. 620 00:25:22,410 --> 00:25:24,970 But we'll jump onto the indemnification. 621 00:25:24,970 --> 00:25:27,940 So then it usually says, if we do steal John Williams' music, 622 00:25:27,940 --> 00:25:29,050 you guys are protected. 623 00:25:29,050 --> 00:25:31,280 And there's different levels of indemnification. 624 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,170 But the indemnification just says 625 00:25:33,170 --> 00:25:37,180 it falls on us if we screw things up. 626 00:25:37,180 --> 00:25:39,800 Next, there's usually a little confidential information 627 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,930 clause, a little NDA clause about not disclosing things 628 00:25:44,930 --> 00:25:48,760 and then some specific legal language about the ownership 629 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,981 and assignment of rights specific to work-for-hire, 630 00:25:51,981 --> 00:25:52,730 legal mumbo-jumbo. 631 00:25:56,450 --> 00:26:00,000 We'll skip the subcontract. 632 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,580 And then there are some rights that are specific to us, 633 00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:03,790 as the content creators. 634 00:26:03,790 --> 00:26:07,160 So if you remember, we talked about composer-specific rights, 635 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,730 things like the ability for us to post our work 636 00:26:09,730 --> 00:26:12,360 on our website, something that we like in our contract 637 00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:16,310 so that we can advertise music to other people [INAUDIBLE] 638 00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:17,360 them to hire us. 639 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:20,140 Similarly, we often spell out how we're going to be credited. 640 00:26:20,140 --> 00:26:22,720 And the credit is a great way, as well, 641 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,740 to negotiate with your composer. 642 00:26:24,740 --> 00:26:26,860 If you're on a budget, maybe you say, OK, I'll 643 00:26:26,860 --> 00:26:29,360 put your name at the opening cinematic 644 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:32,980 instead of just in the back to help compensate 645 00:26:32,980 --> 00:26:35,220 for our lack of budget, get you a little more 646 00:26:35,220 --> 00:26:36,820 exposure, things like that. 647 00:26:36,820 --> 00:26:40,280 So you spell out how you want to be credited. 648 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,857 That's really it for the contract. 649 00:26:42,857 --> 00:26:44,440 I don't want to go too detailed there. 650 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,846 But some key points to be thinking about 651 00:26:46,846 --> 00:26:51,450 if you guys ever hire a composer or a sound designer. 652 00:26:51,450 --> 00:26:53,090 Let's talk about money. 653 00:26:53,090 --> 00:26:56,360 This is the question most people have. 654 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,890 And whenever I meet a developer, without fail, 655 00:26:59,890 --> 00:27:02,280 within like 10 minutes of the conversation, they're like, 656 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:03,900 ah, what do you charge? 657 00:27:03,900 --> 00:27:06,630 ANDY FORSBERG: What's generally what you charge for any game? 658 00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:07,910 RICHARD LUDLOW: It's funny. 659 00:27:07,910 --> 00:27:09,942 And I gave this talk at GDC Next. 660 00:27:09,942 --> 00:27:11,400 And you'll see by the end of it why 661 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,430 I'm like, that's not a question I can just answer. 662 00:27:14,430 --> 00:27:16,420 And then I got like three emails from people 663 00:27:16,420 --> 00:27:18,490 who attended the talk after and who were like, 664 00:27:18,490 --> 00:27:21,074 can you just give me a range for an indie budget? 665 00:27:21,074 --> 00:27:23,240 Anyway, but you'll see why that's funny in a minute. 666 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,542 Because my response is always to them when they ask, 667 00:27:25,542 --> 00:27:26,500 how much do you charge? 668 00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:28,820 My response is always, what's your budget? 669 00:27:28,820 --> 00:27:33,642 And the reason being because are so many factors, 670 00:27:33,642 --> 00:27:37,430 like what the deadline is, musical style, 671 00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:39,880 whether or not we're talking about a solo piano piece 672 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,280 versus epic orchestral piece. 673 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,238 ANDY FORSBERG: Are we going to get live players 674 00:27:43,238 --> 00:27:45,967 to play those orchestral pieces or a piano player 675 00:27:45,967 --> 00:27:47,160 to play that song, maybe. 676 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:47,820 RICHARD LUDLOW: You can throw out the bullet points 677 00:27:47,820 --> 00:27:49,020 if you want, just FYI. 678 00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:52,410 We're just going through them. 679 00:27:52,410 --> 00:27:54,500 Anyway, and what's the release platform? 680 00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:55,700 Is this the AAA console? 681 00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:58,620 Or is it a Facebook game for the American Cancer Society? 682 00:27:58,620 --> 00:27:59,465 ANDY FORSBERG: Again, are we going 683 00:27:59,465 --> 00:28:01,750 to use a work-for-hire or what one of the license deals? 684 00:28:01,750 --> 00:28:02,666 RICHARD LUDLOW: Right. 685 00:28:02,666 --> 00:28:05,079 Like we just talked about, buying out the rights or us 686 00:28:05,079 --> 00:28:05,870 keeping the rights? 687 00:28:05,870 --> 00:28:08,770 Really big effect on the price there. 688 00:28:08,770 --> 00:28:09,770 How much are you buying? 689 00:28:09,770 --> 00:28:11,210 We're like Costco. 690 00:28:11,210 --> 00:28:11,950 [INAUDIBLE] 691 00:28:11,950 --> 00:28:14,450 ANDY FORSBERG: But if you're going to buy 100 sound effects, 692 00:28:14,450 --> 00:28:16,533 that's obviously going to be different than if you 693 00:28:16,533 --> 00:28:18,395 need five sound effects or 50 sound effects. 694 00:28:18,395 --> 00:28:20,090 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah, we give bulk discounts all the time. 695 00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:20,480 ANDY FORSBERG: Exactly. 696 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,230 And that goes into, obviously, the depth 697 00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:23,890 of the audio experience, as well, 698 00:28:23,890 --> 00:28:27,505 which is how crazy we're going to get with interactivity, 699 00:28:27,505 --> 00:28:29,904 if we're going to be using middleware. 700 00:28:29,904 --> 00:28:32,070 RICHARD LUDLOW: Like Andy said with the mobile game, 701 00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:35,220 you could put one minute, three minutes, 10 minutes, 20 702 00:28:35,220 --> 00:28:37,320 minutes, all in the same game. 703 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,740 It's going to be a better game if you've got-- maybe 704 00:28:39,740 --> 00:28:40,490 you don't need 20. 705 00:28:40,490 --> 00:28:42,739 But if you've got more than one looping track, 706 00:28:42,739 --> 00:28:44,030 it's going to be a better game. 707 00:28:44,030 --> 00:28:47,180 But the game still exists with a single piece of music. 708 00:28:47,180 --> 00:28:49,620 So saying, how much do you charge, 709 00:28:49,620 --> 00:28:52,080 is a very, very difficult question 710 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,270 to answer without knowing-- 711 00:28:53,270 --> 00:28:53,780 ANDY FORSBERG: Any stipulations. 712 00:28:53,780 --> 00:28:55,404 RICHARD LUDLOW: --more about your game. 713 00:28:55,404 --> 00:28:56,090 Yeah. 714 00:28:56,090 --> 00:28:58,370 ANDY FORSBERG: One of our clients 715 00:28:58,370 --> 00:29:01,830 that we work with, on their page where you go to contact them, 716 00:29:01,830 --> 00:29:04,210 it says, when do you need your project done by? 717 00:29:04,210 --> 00:29:06,046 And one of the options is, Yesterday. 718 00:29:06,046 --> 00:29:06,920 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah. 719 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,660 And deadlines are a huge part of that. 720 00:29:09,660 --> 00:29:11,410 Sometimes we get calls where it's 721 00:29:11,410 --> 00:29:14,180 like, we need this in two days or in a day. 722 00:29:14,180 --> 00:29:15,860 And we'll do it. 723 00:29:15,860 --> 00:29:18,790 But it's going to cost more than if you need it in a year. 724 00:29:18,790 --> 00:29:23,550 So contacting, guys, early is important. 725 00:29:23,550 --> 00:29:25,529 Anyway, let's jump on to payment models. 726 00:29:25,529 --> 00:29:28,070 ANDY FORSBERG: And you can hit all these bullet points again. 727 00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:29,220 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah, I mean, we were just 728 00:29:29,220 --> 00:29:31,660 basically talking about how composers and sound 729 00:29:31,660 --> 00:29:34,970 designers charge. 730 00:29:34,970 --> 00:29:38,280 Typically with music, it's a per-minute music, so not 731 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,975 per minute that we're working. 732 00:29:39,975 --> 00:29:41,600 ANDY FORSBERG: And then sound effects-- 733 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,410 yeah, that we're working-- and then sound effects are usually 734 00:29:44,410 --> 00:29:46,394 per-asset. 735 00:29:46,394 --> 00:29:48,060 RICHARD LUDLOW: Or sometimes a flat fee. 736 00:29:48,060 --> 00:29:50,240 That's also common [INAUDIBLE] quote a project 737 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:51,970 and say, OK, I'll do your whole project 738 00:29:51,970 --> 00:29:55,302 regardless of how many sound effects for, you know, $20,000. 739 00:29:55,302 --> 00:29:56,260 I don't know, whatever. 740 00:29:56,260 --> 00:29:56,990 ANDY FORSBERG: Sometimes hourly rate. 741 00:29:56,990 --> 00:29:58,260 We usually don't do this. 742 00:29:58,260 --> 00:30:00,242 This is a really hard one to engage. 743 00:30:00,242 --> 00:30:01,700 RICHARD LUDLOW: It's a valid thing. 744 00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:02,240 People do it. 745 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:02,730 We don't. 746 00:30:02,730 --> 00:30:03,280 ANDY FORSBERG: We don't. 747 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:04,490 RICHARD LUDLOW: But yeah. 748 00:30:04,490 --> 00:30:06,140 [KNOCKING SOUNDS] 749 00:30:06,140 --> 00:30:08,450 There's some weird thing happening below us. 750 00:30:08,450 --> 00:30:09,910 ANDY FORSBERG: Sorry. 751 00:30:09,910 --> 00:30:16,020 And then usually, we really like to get back-end profit sharing. 752 00:30:16,020 --> 00:30:17,770 RICHARD LUDLOW: If the budget isn't there. 753 00:30:17,770 --> 00:30:19,930 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah, that's a big thing with audio 754 00:30:19,930 --> 00:30:21,000 to think about. 755 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,570 At the end of the day, is it really 756 00:30:23,570 --> 00:30:27,840 going to cost you that much to give 0.5% of back-end when you 757 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,270 can't give anything up front? 758 00:30:29,270 --> 00:30:30,967 Because we always have passion projects. 759 00:30:30,967 --> 00:30:32,550 We make money on some of our projects. 760 00:30:32,550 --> 00:30:35,420 But we really like to believe in games that are really cool. 761 00:30:35,420 --> 00:30:38,120 And sometimes the best to do that is just to share the game. 762 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,360 RICHARD LUDLOW: The indie scene, they often 763 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,180 can't afford because they don't have that upfront money. 764 00:30:43,180 --> 00:30:45,290 And so we'll talk about a back-end profit sharing 765 00:30:45,290 --> 00:30:46,110 percentage. 766 00:30:46,110 --> 00:30:48,950 And if you talk to people who have been doing this 30 years, 767 00:30:48,950 --> 00:30:52,130 that didn't exist 10, 20, 30 years ago. 768 00:30:52,130 --> 00:30:54,620 Audio guys did not get back-end profit sharing usually. 769 00:30:54,620 --> 00:30:56,520 Because they were just paid upfront. 770 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,820 But that's kind of gone away. 771 00:30:58,820 --> 00:31:02,740 I guess that is probably true of all industries. 772 00:31:02,740 --> 00:31:07,610 But so thinking about that is a very valid thing. 773 00:31:07,610 --> 00:31:12,200 And it's usually accompanied by some upfront fee. 774 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,780 It's usually a reduced amount. 775 00:31:13,780 --> 00:31:16,590 But the back-end thing is definitely valid. 776 00:31:16,590 --> 00:31:19,950 We want new developers to be less afraid of that 777 00:31:19,950 --> 00:31:21,160 and more open to it. 778 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,832 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah, absolutely. 779 00:31:22,832 --> 00:31:25,290 RICHARD LUDLOW: And then any combination of the above, too. 780 00:31:25,290 --> 00:31:25,790 Cool. 781 00:31:25,790 --> 00:31:28,960 Anyway, so how does this break down? 782 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,880 And you can throw all these up here. 783 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,086 Just showing you music, sound, and dialogue. 784 00:31:34,086 --> 00:31:35,460 There's a lot of components here. 785 00:31:35,460 --> 00:31:37,940 So when we're talking about what we're charging, 786 00:31:37,940 --> 00:31:42,260 we charge different prices for themes in the music. 787 00:31:42,260 --> 00:31:46,966 So if I write a musical theme that has its setting, 788 00:31:46,966 --> 00:31:48,340 and we charge one price for that. 789 00:31:48,340 --> 00:31:50,070 But then we might put an arrangement 790 00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:53,980 of that in an underwater level, a desert level, a jungle level. 791 00:31:53,980 --> 00:31:55,740 The same theme, but different arrangements 792 00:31:55,740 --> 00:31:56,850 for different levels. 793 00:31:56,850 --> 00:31:59,250 And we charge less for those arrangements. 794 00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:00,710 Those little transitional segments 795 00:32:00,710 --> 00:32:03,940 you've heard in that demo I played, those are transitions. 796 00:32:03,940 --> 00:32:05,650 We charge less for those. 797 00:32:05,650 --> 00:32:08,430 And any different price for things like stingers, 798 00:32:08,430 --> 00:32:10,780 like a coin pick-up or an end game, 799 00:32:10,780 --> 00:32:15,230 like, [HUMMING] sound like that when you die. 800 00:32:15,230 --> 00:32:18,960 With sound effects, we break things out into primary sound 801 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,670 effects, like if you've got a creature having an attack 802 00:32:21,670 --> 00:32:22,910 sound, "ch." 803 00:32:22,910 --> 00:32:26,450 And then it's like a die sound, idle sound, 804 00:32:26,450 --> 00:32:28,950 those are all primary sounds. 805 00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:33,500 Iterations might be like, attack01, attack02, attack03, 806 00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:34,890 die01, die02. 807 00:32:34,890 --> 00:32:37,730 And we charge less for iterations. 808 00:32:37,730 --> 00:32:41,110 UI and ambiences, different prices there. 809 00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:43,790 And then dialogue, there's just a whole slew of components, 810 00:32:43,790 --> 00:32:45,640 like casting. 811 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,350 Usually you have to hire someone to cast all the actors. 812 00:32:48,350 --> 00:32:50,440 ANDY FORSBERG: Getting Kevin Spacey 813 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,940 for the next Call of Duty game. 814 00:32:51,940 --> 00:32:52,910 Or where-- 815 00:32:52,910 --> 00:32:53,960 RICHARD LUDLOW: Kevin Spacey for the next-- 816 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:54,580 ANDY FORSBERG: --we're doing it ourselves. 817 00:32:54,580 --> 00:32:57,199 RICHARD LUDLOW: Who doesn't want to use Kevin Spacey? 818 00:32:57,199 --> 00:32:57,740 You're right. 819 00:32:57,740 --> 00:32:59,630 And then so they charge a few hundred, 820 00:32:59,630 --> 00:33:02,167 a few thousand an hour, depending on the actor. 821 00:33:02,167 --> 00:33:03,750 Usually there's someone directing them 822 00:33:03,750 --> 00:33:05,290 while they're being recorded. 823 00:33:05,290 --> 00:33:08,566 Someone's recording them, editing them, processing. 824 00:33:08,566 --> 00:33:09,940 Just throwing this up here so you 825 00:33:09,940 --> 00:33:12,599 know all the different components of music-sound 826 00:33:12,599 --> 00:33:13,390 that are out there. 827 00:33:13,390 --> 00:33:16,420 So again, asking, what do you charge, 828 00:33:16,420 --> 00:33:18,940 what does your game need, is a very-- 829 00:33:18,940 --> 00:33:21,977 we need to know what your game needs before we can say. 830 00:33:21,977 --> 00:33:23,310 ANDY FORSBERG: Cool, next slide. 831 00:33:23,310 --> 00:33:24,355 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah. 832 00:33:24,355 --> 00:33:25,980 So we're getting close to the end here. 833 00:33:25,980 --> 00:33:27,230 Then we can do some questions. 834 00:33:27,230 --> 00:33:30,000 But just talking about a theoretical project-- 835 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:37,160 say you've got a low budget, $160,000 Kickstarter project. 836 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,070 So talking about music-sound, we're 837 00:33:39,070 --> 00:33:42,510 typically looking at like 5% to 15% 838 00:33:42,510 --> 00:33:44,790 of budget being allocated to audio. 839 00:33:44,790 --> 00:33:48,622 5% to 15%, usually hovering around 10, 15, 20, 840 00:33:48,622 --> 00:33:50,470 25-- very good. 841 00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:52,150 ANDY FORSBERG: 100! [LAUGHS] 842 00:33:52,150 --> 00:33:53,810 RICHARD LUDLOW: No, but seriously. 843 00:33:53,810 --> 00:33:56,340 And so a common problem with this, 844 00:33:56,340 --> 00:34:01,770 though, is that your game, to be awesome, needs this much music. 845 00:34:01,770 --> 00:34:05,270 But your budget is only going to allow for this much music. 846 00:34:05,270 --> 00:34:08,639 So let's say we've got a hypothetical game here 847 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:11,360 where a project might need 18 minutes of music and 300 848 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:12,590 sound effects. 849 00:34:12,590 --> 00:34:15,540 So say we were going to charge like $750 a minute 850 00:34:15,540 --> 00:34:18,420 for themes and $500 a minute for arrangements, 851 00:34:18,420 --> 00:34:21,030 which are kind of indie prices. 852 00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:25,150 We charge up to-- we have a different scale because 853 00:34:25,150 --> 00:34:26,940 of all the different factors involved-- 854 00:34:26,940 --> 00:34:31,000 but up to like $1,000 a minute is pretty typical. 855 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,330 The big guys on AAA's will be charging $2,500 a minute. 856 00:34:34,330 --> 00:34:36,219 But up to $1,000 a minute of music 857 00:34:36,219 --> 00:34:41,040 is pretty typical, between $500 and $1,000. 858 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,659 And then maybe sound effects. 859 00:34:42,659 --> 00:34:46,690 Maybe you use a combination of all those, total $12,500. 860 00:34:46,690 --> 00:34:49,230 Let's say this game, to be awesome, again, 861 00:34:49,230 --> 00:34:52,110 needs $23,500 for the audio. 862 00:34:52,110 --> 00:34:54,930 And you're like, oh my god, that's a lot of money. 863 00:34:54,930 --> 00:34:56,429 And let's say the developer has only 864 00:34:56,429 --> 00:34:58,076 allocated $11,000 to audio. 865 00:34:58,076 --> 00:34:58,950 ANDY FORSBERG: Right. 866 00:34:58,950 --> 00:35:01,580 So some things we can do to reduce the costs are-- we 867 00:35:01,580 --> 00:35:03,990 can reduce the original music themes 868 00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:05,619 and increase the arrangements. 869 00:35:05,619 --> 00:35:07,160 So we can just do a lot of iterations 870 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,017 with things, which is actually a very feasible option, 871 00:35:10,017 --> 00:35:12,842 because those composers were trained to do that. 872 00:35:12,842 --> 00:35:15,050 We can reduce the number of sound effects iterations, 873 00:35:15,050 --> 00:35:16,360 just have more of those primaries. 874 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,590 RICHARD LUDLOW: Only attack01 instead of 02, 03, 04. 875 00:35:18,590 --> 00:35:19,600 ANDY FORSBERG: Exactly. 876 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,142 We can do back-end profit sharing, 877 00:35:21,142 --> 00:35:22,100 as we mentioned before. 878 00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:23,765 So maybe at 3% on that. 879 00:35:23,765 --> 00:35:25,390 And then we can use a license agreement 880 00:35:25,390 --> 00:35:27,600 instead of saying you're using the work-for-hire. 881 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,280 RICHARD LUDLOW: So just some common things to think about 882 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:31,860 in that negotiating process about, 883 00:35:31,860 --> 00:35:33,860 how can we work with the audio guy 884 00:35:33,860 --> 00:35:37,800 to reduce the cost to something we're both comfortable with? 885 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,500 Yeah, so let's just wrap up really quick. 886 00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:42,190 What did we talk about? 887 00:35:42,190 --> 00:35:43,600 Interactivity. 888 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:44,660 It's music. 889 00:35:44,660 --> 00:35:45,690 It's sound. 890 00:35:45,690 --> 00:35:49,460 It's responding dynamically to player input. 891 00:35:49,460 --> 00:35:50,600 The player does something. 892 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,450 The music, the sound, it changes, it reacts. 893 00:35:54,450 --> 00:35:56,480 It's going to create a deeper player experience. 894 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,510 It's going to reduce the cost if you do it right. 895 00:35:59,510 --> 00:36:02,740 And we're doing this with FMOD, Wwise, Fabric, 896 00:36:02,740 --> 00:36:04,730 different audio middleware. 897 00:36:04,730 --> 00:36:06,480 ANDY FORSBERG: And then for budgets, we're 898 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,590 trying to look at 5% to 15% of the total budget of your game 899 00:36:09,590 --> 00:36:11,760 allocated to audio. 900 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,644 Remember to consider back-end payments. 901 00:36:13,644 --> 00:36:15,060 We really think that's going to be 902 00:36:15,060 --> 00:36:17,780 part of the future of how audio works within, especially, 903 00:36:17,780 --> 00:36:18,770 the indie market. 904 00:36:18,770 --> 00:36:23,400 And just be willing to negotiate and figure things out. 905 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:24,680 Your costs fluctuate. 906 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,110 Our costs fluctuate. 907 00:36:26,110 --> 00:36:28,030 So it just needs to be a negotiation. 908 00:36:28,030 --> 00:36:29,530 We can usually figure something out. 909 00:36:29,530 --> 00:36:30,770 Any audio person can. 910 00:36:30,770 --> 00:36:31,280 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah. 911 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:32,980 Oh, and then we jumped over Agreements. 912 00:36:32,980 --> 00:36:33,500 ANDY FORSBERG: Oh, sorry. 913 00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:34,416 I went right and down. 914 00:36:34,416 --> 00:36:37,144 RICHARD LUDLOW: No, it's cool It's all good. 915 00:36:37,144 --> 00:36:38,560 And then, agreements, again, we're 916 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,352 talking about work-for-hire. 917 00:36:40,352 --> 00:36:41,060 I'm the composer. 918 00:36:41,060 --> 00:36:41,976 I'm writing the music. 919 00:36:41,976 --> 00:36:44,150 You, as the developer, are buying it. 920 00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:46,360 Licenses-- I'm the composer. 921 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:47,170 I write the music. 922 00:36:47,170 --> 00:36:48,400 I obtain the rights. 923 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,653 And then I give you some type of license to use the music. 924 00:36:51,653 --> 00:36:55,150 But that wraps up, I think, the four points 925 00:36:55,150 --> 00:36:56,960 we were going to talk about. 926 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,610 If you guys have specific questions, 927 00:36:58,610 --> 00:36:59,900 we're happy to answer them. 928 00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:03,180 Or Phil, if you have any additional points 929 00:37:03,180 --> 00:37:06,765 you want to touch on. 930 00:37:06,765 --> 00:37:10,132 [APPLAUSE] 931 00:37:11,181 --> 00:37:12,056 ANDY FORSBERG: Thanks 932 00:37:12,056 --> 00:37:13,018 RICHARD LUDLOW: Thanks. 933 00:37:13,018 --> 00:37:14,476 PROFESSOR 2: I think for questions, 934 00:37:14,476 --> 00:37:16,410 if anyone has any questions, I'll 935 00:37:16,410 --> 00:37:18,730 repeat it since I'm a little bit closer to the mic. 936 00:37:18,730 --> 00:37:20,640 Although, maybe the mic might pick you up 937 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,230 if you're in the back of the room. 938 00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:23,540 We'll give it a shot. 939 00:37:23,540 --> 00:37:24,810 RICHARD LUDLOW: It doesn't need to be a question about what 940 00:37:24,810 --> 00:37:25,920 we talked about, too. 941 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:27,970 Any audio related things. 942 00:37:27,970 --> 00:37:29,990 ANDY FORSBERG: Favorite color. 943 00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:31,798 PROFESSOR 2: Yeah, as loud as you can. 944 00:37:31,798 --> 00:37:32,714 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]. 945 00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:50,255 PROFESSOR 2: Did you [INAUDIBLE]? 946 00:37:50,255 --> 00:37:51,380 RICHARD LUDLOW: I think so. 947 00:37:51,380 --> 00:37:54,540 So was the gist of it basically being 948 00:37:54,540 --> 00:37:57,390 folks using music and sound and then getting takedown notices? 949 00:37:57,390 --> 00:37:58,422 Is that what she said? 950 00:37:58,422 --> 00:37:59,880 PROFESSOR 2: Yeah, takedown notices 951 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:01,380 on some of those by YouTube or Twitch. 952 00:38:01,380 --> 00:38:02,755 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah, absolutely. 953 00:38:02,755 --> 00:38:04,330 So the whole takedown notice thing 954 00:38:04,330 --> 00:38:07,620 has really come about because people are just using the music 955 00:38:07,620 --> 00:38:10,860 or just using the sound without asking for permission for it. 956 00:38:10,860 --> 00:38:12,890 Now, in an actual gameplay video, 957 00:38:12,890 --> 00:38:15,510 if you're streaming Twitch, that is really 958 00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:17,530 a very developer-specific question. 959 00:38:17,530 --> 00:38:20,510 And that's not something that we, as the composers and sound 960 00:38:20,510 --> 00:38:23,010 designers, really even have control over. 961 00:38:23,010 --> 00:38:25,530 If it's for a game and if it's in a game, 962 00:38:25,530 --> 00:38:28,840 if we're working on a Nintendo game and it goes out to them, 963 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,340 then that is owned by Nintendo. 964 00:38:31,340 --> 00:38:33,150 And if it's not owned by Nintendo, 965 00:38:33,150 --> 00:38:34,540 they've got the license for it. 966 00:38:34,540 --> 00:38:37,590 So it's all on them with regards to that. 967 00:38:37,590 --> 00:38:40,660 So some developers are totally cool letting it slide. 968 00:38:40,660 --> 00:38:42,670 Some developers are not. 969 00:38:42,670 --> 00:38:46,945 But it's a shifting-- it's all being figured out right now. 970 00:38:46,945 --> 00:38:49,070 ANDY FORSBERG: And usually that happens, obviously, 971 00:38:49,070 --> 00:38:52,530 in the bigger game world. 972 00:38:52,530 --> 00:38:54,030 The biggest game that would probably 973 00:38:54,030 --> 00:38:55,530 happen with in the indie world would 974 00:38:55,530 --> 00:38:57,660 be something like Journey, or something like that. 975 00:38:57,660 --> 00:39:00,450 RICHARD LUDLOW: And most often, at least now, developers 976 00:39:00,450 --> 00:39:02,660 are pretty cool with it. 977 00:39:02,660 --> 00:39:05,180 But I know it's all being figured out right now. 978 00:39:05,180 --> 00:39:06,629 That's a very shifting landscape. 979 00:39:06,629 --> 00:39:09,170 ANDY FORSBERG: And it has to do with royalties in music and-- 980 00:39:09,170 --> 00:39:11,832 RICHARD LUDLOW: That's another thing. 981 00:39:11,832 --> 00:39:14,290 ANDY FORSBERG: Collections have been set up for film and TV 982 00:39:14,290 --> 00:39:15,945 for eons now. 983 00:39:15,945 --> 00:39:17,570 And there's a system in place for that. 984 00:39:17,570 --> 00:39:19,487 But there's really no landscape for games yet. 985 00:39:19,487 --> 00:39:21,695 RICHARD LUDLOW: It's a little different with YouTube, 986 00:39:21,695 --> 00:39:23,170 and the Twitch, as well. 987 00:39:23,170 --> 00:39:26,460 We get paid 0.0001 cents every time someone will 988 00:39:26,460 --> 00:39:28,060 watch something on YouTube. 989 00:39:28,060 --> 00:39:30,000 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah, it's insulting. 990 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,040 RICHARD LUDLOW: In five years, hopefully, 991 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:32,248 that will all be figured out. 992 00:39:32,248 --> 00:39:35,070 But sorry I don't have a better answer. 993 00:39:35,070 --> 00:39:37,227 our fault. It's the developer. 994 00:39:37,227 --> 00:39:38,810 PROFESSOR 2: Just a follow up question 995 00:39:38,810 --> 00:39:41,720 on that-- it seems like in order for all these services 996 00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:44,790 to actually detect that they're using the music, 997 00:39:44,790 --> 00:39:46,810 they need to cross check it against some sort 998 00:39:46,810 --> 00:39:48,100 of audio database. 999 00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:50,970 So is that something that you, as composers, usually 1000 00:39:50,970 --> 00:39:51,720 end up submitting? 1001 00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:53,480 Or is that something that the game companies usually 1002 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:54,130 end up doing? 1003 00:39:54,130 --> 00:39:56,171 Or does it really depend on the license agreement 1004 00:39:56,171 --> 00:39:59,120 that you have with the company? 1005 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,125 ANDY FORSBERG: It's usually the developer. 1006 00:40:01,125 --> 00:40:02,000 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah. 1007 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,750 So there's a couple different ways. 1008 00:40:04,750 --> 00:40:07,210 We have friends who work for PlayStation. 1009 00:40:07,210 --> 00:40:09,160 And they were just talking about how 1010 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,950 they posted things on their PlayStation North America 1011 00:40:12,950 --> 00:40:13,450 account. 1012 00:40:13,450 --> 00:40:17,000 And they got taken down by PlayStation Japan or something. 1013 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,680 So their own companies aren't even really 1014 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,590 able to quite mesh this together yet. 1015 00:40:22,590 --> 00:40:27,580 But the databases are sometimes internal to publishers. 1016 00:40:27,580 --> 00:40:31,860 But also sometimes they're scanning surfaces 1017 00:40:31,860 --> 00:40:35,230 that these royalties agencies like BMI and ASCAP 1018 00:40:35,230 --> 00:40:35,934 actually have. 1019 00:40:35,934 --> 00:40:38,350 And they've got these automatic scannings that are set up. 1020 00:40:38,350 --> 00:40:41,660 And that sometimes comes about because we submit our music 1021 00:40:41,660 --> 00:40:45,250 to these royalty agencies like ASCAP and BMI 1022 00:40:45,250 --> 00:40:46,920 in order to be able to get paid. 1023 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,329 But then they use them to find out how many times things 1024 00:40:49,329 --> 00:40:50,120 are getting played. 1025 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,062 They don't use them to figure out what should be taken down. 1026 00:40:53,062 --> 00:40:54,020 ANDY FORSBERG: Exactly. 1027 00:40:54,020 --> 00:40:57,999 Yeah, I think, especially on the indie level, 1028 00:40:57,999 --> 00:41:00,040 the only way we would be able to detect something 1029 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,040 is if we went and watched a YouTube video, 1030 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,010 our music was in it, and we're like, oh, crap! 1031 00:41:04,010 --> 00:41:04,820 That's our music. 1032 00:41:04,820 --> 00:41:08,220 RICHARD LUDLOW: We don't have these engines going. 1033 00:41:08,220 --> 00:41:11,700 The publishers have teams of people doing takedowns 1034 00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:12,739 on their content. 1035 00:41:12,739 --> 00:41:13,780 ANDY FORSBERG: Yay, team. 1036 00:41:13,780 --> 00:41:15,150 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah, and I don't know all the details 1037 00:41:15,150 --> 00:41:15,780 behind that. 1038 00:41:21,166 --> 00:41:22,040 ANDY FORSBERG: Sorry? 1039 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:23,623 RICHARD LUDLOW: The ASCAP stands for-- 1040 00:41:23,623 --> 00:41:28,650 BOTH: American Society of Composers and Publishers? 1041 00:41:28,650 --> 00:41:31,880 RICHARD LUDLOW: I want to say Publishers. 1042 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,730 I think they probably should. 1043 00:41:34,730 --> 00:41:35,530 I don't know, man. 1044 00:41:35,530 --> 00:41:36,905 We just get the checks from them. 1045 00:41:36,905 --> 00:41:40,400 ANDY FORSBERG: BMI is Broadcast Music, Incorporated. 1046 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,150 PROFESSOR 2: So I can take a look at that. 1047 00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:43,270 ANDY FORSBERG: They're called PRO's. 1048 00:41:43,270 --> 00:41:45,650 RICHARD LUDLOW: Composers, Authors, and Publishers. 1049 00:41:45,650 --> 00:41:47,230 PROFESSOR 2: Next one? 1050 00:41:47,230 --> 00:41:48,130 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yes. 1051 00:41:48,130 --> 00:41:48,830 PROFESSOR 2: Other questions? 1052 00:41:48,830 --> 00:41:49,748 Yeah, Liz? 1053 00:41:49,748 --> 00:41:53,880 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] art talk of last class, 1054 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,900 they have done an artist test to see if the particular artists 1055 00:41:57,900 --> 00:41:58,880 are right for the game. 1056 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,782 Is there an equivalent for music? 1057 00:42:00,782 --> 00:42:02,115 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah, absolutely. 1058 00:42:02,115 --> 00:42:04,073 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah, we do those all the time. 1059 00:42:04,073 --> 00:42:06,930 And that's a totally legitimate thing if you aren't sure. 1060 00:42:06,930 --> 00:42:12,360 Asking them to do a 30-second demo. 1061 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,921 I'd say a 30-second demo is totally legitimate. 1062 00:42:16,921 --> 00:42:19,420 Yeah, and usually the best way to do that, guys, just so you 1063 00:42:19,420 --> 00:42:22,390 know, take some gameplay, be it from your game, 1064 00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:25,390 a different game, concept art for your game, 1065 00:42:25,390 --> 00:42:29,360 take some visuals as a video, send it to them. 1066 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,260 Or just concept art, send it to them. 1067 00:42:31,260 --> 00:42:32,485 And let them work with that. 1068 00:42:32,485 --> 00:42:33,985 ANDY FORSBERG: Because we could even 1069 00:42:33,985 --> 00:42:36,140 do an interactive demo for it at that point. 1070 00:42:36,140 --> 00:42:38,120 The big thing, again, is there's the difference 1071 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:39,930 between being able to write good music 1072 00:42:39,930 --> 00:42:42,660 and having a core concept for a game from the beginning 1073 00:42:42,660 --> 00:42:46,030 and thinking about interactivity when you're composing and doing 1074 00:42:46,030 --> 00:42:46,880 sound effects. 1075 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,555 Because it's a whole different animal. 1076 00:42:48,555 --> 00:42:49,430 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yeah. 1077 00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:51,820 But the demos are totally legitimate. 1078 00:42:51,820 --> 00:42:52,860 We do them all the time. 1079 00:42:52,860 --> 00:42:56,380 But sending some visuals along is 1080 00:42:56,380 --> 00:42:58,970 very important to making sure you get what you want. 1081 00:42:58,970 --> 00:43:01,652 And then we're able to see what the game is 1082 00:43:01,652 --> 00:43:03,610 going to look like and then make that decision. 1083 00:43:03,610 --> 00:43:05,068 Otherwise, we might write something 1084 00:43:05,068 --> 00:43:08,930 that you might not have the vision for because we 1085 00:43:08,930 --> 00:43:09,860 haven't seen the art. 1086 00:43:09,860 --> 00:43:12,390 And maybe we could easily do what you wanted, 1087 00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:15,320 but we just misinterpreted it and went a different direction. 1088 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,612 But yeah, tests are legitimate, absolutely. 1089 00:43:18,612 --> 00:43:19,570 PROFESSOR 2: Questions? 1090 00:43:19,570 --> 00:43:23,660 AUDIENCE: How much are they paid for the music test? 1091 00:43:23,660 --> 00:43:26,152 PROFESSOR 2: Will you be paid for an audio test? 1092 00:43:26,152 --> 00:43:27,860 RICHARD LUDLOW: What did the art guy say? 1093 00:43:27,860 --> 00:43:28,844 I'm curious. 1094 00:43:28,844 --> 00:43:30,177 AUDIENCE: They said [INAUDIBLE]. 1095 00:43:40,202 --> 00:43:42,410 ANDY FORSBERG: We have not found that to be extremely 1096 00:43:42,410 --> 00:43:43,430 common with what we do. 1097 00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:44,620 We'd like it to be more common. 1098 00:43:44,620 --> 00:43:45,950 RICHARD LUDLOW: It used to be a thing. 1099 00:43:45,950 --> 00:43:47,990 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah, it used to be a huge thing. 1100 00:43:47,990 --> 00:43:49,700 RICHARD LUDLOW: For commercials, it was a big thing. 1101 00:43:49,700 --> 00:43:51,180 You'd get paid for doing a demo. 1102 00:43:51,180 --> 00:43:51,860 ANDY FORSBERG: I think it's definitely 1103 00:43:51,860 --> 00:43:53,110 more common in the game world. 1104 00:43:53,110 --> 00:43:54,950 In the film and TV world, it's so saturated 1105 00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:56,570 with composers and sound designers 1106 00:43:56,570 --> 00:43:58,380 right now that they don't need to. 1107 00:43:58,380 --> 00:44:00,360 Because so many people want the work. 1108 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,390 But it is a respectful thing to do, 1109 00:44:04,390 --> 00:44:06,195 I think if it's a longer demo. 1110 00:44:06,195 --> 00:44:07,820 If it's a shorter demo, then it's like, 1111 00:44:07,820 --> 00:44:09,550 we're happy to get the gig. 1112 00:44:09,550 --> 00:44:10,740 RICHARD LUDLOW: We're going to keep the rights to that, 1113 00:44:10,740 --> 00:44:11,240 anyway. 1114 00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:13,840 So you could say a couple hundred bucks maybe. 1115 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,030 But it's not a required thing. 1116 00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:20,160 If we want the gig, we're happy to do a 30-second demo 1117 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:21,471 to try and get it often. 1118 00:44:21,471 --> 00:44:23,220 It's nice to throw a couple hundred bucks. 1119 00:44:23,220 --> 00:44:25,550 But at that point, it's a couple hundred bucks. 1120 00:44:25,550 --> 00:44:32,700 It's not like-- it's pennies in the grand scheme of things 1121 00:44:32,700 --> 00:44:34,070 if the project is larger. 1122 00:44:34,070 --> 00:44:38,842 So yeah, anyway, hopefully that solves it. 1123 00:44:38,842 --> 00:44:39,550 PROFESSOR 2: Yes. 1124 00:44:39,550 --> 00:44:40,043 RICHARD LUDLOW: Any more? 1125 00:44:40,043 --> 00:44:40,905 AUDIENCE: Do you find that part of your job 1126 00:44:40,905 --> 00:44:43,512 is convincing people that audio is important? 1127 00:44:43,512 --> 00:44:44,470 ANDY FORSBERG: Oh yeah. 1128 00:44:47,550 --> 00:44:50,660 RICHARD LUDLOW: That's a big part of it. 1129 00:44:50,660 --> 00:44:53,426 We use the three things-- emotion, function-- no. 1130 00:44:53,426 --> 00:44:55,800 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah, I think the biggest argument in that 1131 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,960 is probably a mobile scene. 1132 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,543 Like in class, someone was probably 1133 00:45:00,543 --> 00:45:03,043 playing a mobile game during our talk today and-- (LAUGHING) 1134 00:45:03,043 --> 00:45:04,450 just kidding. 1135 00:45:04,450 --> 00:45:07,235 But it's a big thing, is like well, do they just mute that? 1136 00:45:07,235 --> 00:45:09,110 And then it's like, yeah, you could say that. 1137 00:45:09,110 --> 00:45:10,862 But some people do listen to it. 1138 00:45:10,862 --> 00:45:13,070 When they do listen to it, they listen on headphones. 1139 00:45:13,070 --> 00:45:15,550 And we were at a talk at a conference this year 1140 00:45:15,550 --> 00:45:18,240 called GameSoundCon with a composer 1141 00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:20,970 named Guy Whitmore, who did the music for Peggle and Peggle 2. 1142 00:45:20,970 --> 00:45:22,640 And he was talking about, there's 1143 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:26,470 not a more intimate experience for audio than in headphones 1144 00:45:26,470 --> 00:45:27,970 or in that arena. 1145 00:45:27,970 --> 00:45:33,270 But I think in general, it is undeniably important. 1146 00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:35,950 RICHARD LUDLOW: You can put out a game. 1147 00:45:35,950 --> 00:45:39,010 A mobile game can do OK with bad audio. 1148 00:45:39,010 --> 00:45:40,110 We're not going to lie. 1149 00:45:40,110 --> 00:45:44,390 That's a thing, like Flappy Bird. 1150 00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:46,280 Believe me, I love Flappy Bird. 1151 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,490 I have triple-digits score on Flappy Bird. 1152 00:45:50,490 --> 00:45:54,640 But if you want to set your game apart, 1153 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,802 people look at that polished experience. 1154 00:45:57,802 --> 00:45:59,260 If we're talking about indie games, 1155 00:45:59,260 --> 00:46:00,320 they look at something like Journey 1156 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,970 or mobile games, something like Peggel 2, they look at that, 1157 00:46:02,970 --> 00:46:05,290 and they're like, wow, this entire experience 1158 00:46:05,290 --> 00:46:08,030 is super polished. 1159 00:46:08,030 --> 00:46:09,405 ANDY FORSBERG: It's a great game. 1160 00:46:09,405 --> 00:46:11,200 RICHARD LUDLOW: And it's broken down into the three parts, 1161 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:11,890 really. 1162 00:46:11,890 --> 00:46:15,800 It's the functional, it's the mechanic of the game, 1163 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,740 it's the visual, and it's the audio. 1164 00:46:18,740 --> 00:46:21,660 And those are all a third of the game. 1165 00:46:21,660 --> 00:46:25,220 And if you take out one of those, you can sell the game. 1166 00:46:25,220 --> 00:46:26,989 If you don't have great art, that's fine. 1167 00:46:26,989 --> 00:46:29,280 There's a lot of great games that don't have great art. 1168 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:30,700 If you don't have great mechanics, 1169 00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:32,740 OK, maybe it's pretty and sounds nice. 1170 00:46:32,740 --> 00:46:33,640 That'll still sell. 1171 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,765 ANDY FORSBERG: If that was a pie and you had people 1172 00:46:35,765 --> 00:46:38,304 over for a party, would you hand them only 2/3 of the pie? 1173 00:46:38,304 --> 00:46:38,970 They'd be like-- 1174 00:46:38,970 --> 00:46:39,886 RICHARD LUDLOW: Crazy. 1175 00:46:39,886 --> 00:46:41,490 ANDY FORSBERG: --this dude is selfish. 1176 00:46:41,490 --> 00:46:43,700 [LAUGHING] 1177 00:46:44,599 --> 00:46:46,890 RICHARD LUDLOW: He says that because I eat like a pie-- 1178 00:46:46,890 --> 00:46:48,556 I have a thing where I eat a pie a week. 1179 00:46:48,556 --> 00:46:50,634 ANDY FORSBERG: That's a whole other-- 1180 00:46:50,634 --> 00:46:52,050 RICHARD LUDLOW: But no, seriously, 1181 00:46:52,050 --> 00:46:54,700 so your game can function without one of these things 1182 00:46:54,700 --> 00:46:55,510 being great. 1183 00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:57,930 But it's not going to be as great of an experience. 1184 00:47:00,550 --> 00:47:01,050 [INAUDIBLE] 1185 00:47:05,034 --> 00:47:05,700 PROFESSOR 2: No? 1186 00:47:05,700 --> 00:47:07,640 Then I want to thank you again very much 1187 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,034 for speaking to our students. 1188 00:47:10,034 --> 00:47:11,700 RICHARD LUDLOW: Thank you for having us. 1189 00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:14,200 [APPLAUSE] 1190 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,990 Yeah, and feel free to put up our email addresses. 1191 00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:20,785 Mine is rludlow his is aforsberg if you want to-- Oh, OK. 1192 00:47:20,785 --> 00:47:22,660 ANDY FORSBERG: --@hexany-- oh, yeah, perfect. 1193 00:47:22,660 --> 00:47:23,360 OK, cool. 1194 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,380 RICHARD LUDLOW: And yeah, feel free to shoot us an email. 1195 00:47:26,380 --> 00:47:31,910 If you have any questions, we're happy to support audio 1196 00:47:31,910 --> 00:47:36,110 with the new generation of developers. 1197 00:47:36,110 --> 00:47:38,430 There's a lot of great people over at Berkeley, too. 1198 00:47:38,430 --> 00:47:40,300 If you're looking for composers and sound designers 1199 00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:41,820 to collaborate with, other students, 1200 00:47:41,820 --> 00:47:43,160 there's a lot of great people over there. 1201 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:44,620 There's the Video Game Music Club. 1202 00:47:44,620 --> 00:47:46,760 ANDY FORSBERG: Don't be afraid to cross the bridge. 1203 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,090 RICHARD LUDLOW: Yes. 1204 00:47:48,090 --> 00:47:52,970 The Video Game Music Club, if you shoot them an email, 1205 00:47:52,970 --> 00:47:54,700 you'll get like 10 responses from people 1206 00:47:54,700 --> 00:47:56,991 who are like, yes, let me help you work on this game. 1207 00:47:56,991 --> 00:47:57,990 You're not getting paid. 1208 00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:58,865 I'm not getting paid. 1209 00:47:58,865 --> 00:48:00,890 They might be OK with that. 1210 00:48:00,890 --> 00:48:01,760 ANDY FORSBERG: Yeah. 1211 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:03,490 You guys have the facilities for what you do. 1212 00:48:03,490 --> 00:48:05,454 And Berkeley has the facilities for what they do. 1213 00:48:05,454 --> 00:48:06,953 RICHARD LUDLOW: Anyway, but then you 1214 00:48:06,953 --> 00:48:08,630 can call us when you've got paid gigs. 1215 00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:09,390 [TSKS] 1216 00:48:09,390 --> 00:48:10,240 ANDY FORSBERG: (WHISPERING) Just saying. 1217 00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:11,323 RICHARD LUDLOW: All right. 1218 00:48:11,323 --> 00:48:12,570 Anyway, well, thanks so much. 1219 00:48:12,570 --> 00:48:15,720 I really appreciate you guys caring about audio, really, 1220 00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:16,430 honestly. 1221 00:48:16,430 --> 00:48:18,702 We really appreciate people caring about music 1222 00:48:18,702 --> 00:48:19,660 and sound a little bit. 1223 00:48:19,660 --> 00:48:20,760 So thanks so much. 1224 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,160 ANDY FORSBERG: And good luck with the rest of your semester. 1225 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:22,660 RICHARD LUDLOW: Absolutely. 1226 00:48:22,660 --> 00:48:23,380 Thanks. 1227 00:48:23,380 --> 00:48:24,300 See you guys around. 1228 00:48:24,300 --> 00:48:25,340 ANDY FORSBERG: Cheers, guys. 1229 00:48:25,340 --> 00:48:26,256 RICHARD LUDLOW: Adios. 1230 00:48:26,256 --> 00:48:28,692 [APPLAUSE] 1231 00:48:33,630 --> 00:48:35,050 PROFESSOR 1: All right. 1232 00:48:35,050 --> 00:48:37,260 So yeah, on that note, if you are 1233 00:48:37,260 --> 00:48:43,660 taking CMS617 next semester, the advanced game studio, CMS610, 1234 00:48:43,660 --> 00:48:49,090 the media arts industries law class, both of those 1235 00:48:49,090 --> 00:48:51,320 are making a good polished experience 1236 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,950 for the end of the semester, with the idea 1237 00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:56,760 of either showing it to publishers 1238 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,110 or submitting it to a festival. 1239 00:48:58,110 --> 00:49:01,240 So audio is really, really important in those two classes. 1240 00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:03,720 And going to Berkeley for that kind of support 1241 00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:05,014 is highly recommended. 1242 00:49:05,014 --> 00:49:06,680 Also recommend them this class if you've 1243 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,290 got the time, as well. 1244 00:49:08,290 --> 00:49:09,819 And let us know if you'd like more 1245 00:49:09,819 --> 00:49:11,860 information about connecting with Berkeley folks. 1246 00:49:11,860 --> 00:49:13,985 PROFESSOR 2: Yeah, we actually know the instructors 1247 00:49:13,985 --> 00:49:16,200 and even some alums. 1248 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,936 But the alums know the people who are still in college. 1249 00:49:18,936 --> 00:49:20,852 PROFESSOR 1: Yep, just email Video Game Bosses 1250 00:49:20,852 --> 00:49:22,983 if you'd like that contact info. 1251 00:49:22,983 --> 00:49:25,822 Otherwise, you've got five minutes to take a break, 1252 00:49:25,822 --> 00:49:27,030 meet back up with your teams. 1253 00:49:27,030 --> 00:49:31,189 And Pablo will be in at 2 o'clock to play three games.