1 00:00:01,370 --> 00:00:03,890 class and last lecture traditionally 2 00:00:03,890 --> 00:00:07,772 we bringing a guest lecturer to tell us 3 00:00:07,772 --> 00:00:10,066 of their perspective on complex systems 4 00:00:10,066 --> 00:00:14,176 and it is with great pleasure to welcome Hal Albelson. 5 00:00:14,176 --> 00:00:18,296 A professor here at MIT for many years, some of you 6 00:00:18,296 --> 00:00:21,040 might have already taken classes from him. 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,101 What he is going to talk about is 8 00:00:23,101 --> 00:00:26,526 a topic we've touched upon, but not in particular detail, 9 00:00:26,526 --> 00:00:27,401 in the first two 10 00:00:27,401 --> 00:00:27,900 lectures. 11 00:00:27,900 --> 00:00:32,016 In particular the attraction of technology and complex systems 12 00:00:32,016 --> 00:00:34,766 with law and social issues. 13 00:00:34,766 --> 00:00:36,136 Ok, thanks. 14 00:00:36,136 --> 00:00:38,420 Okay hi. 15 00:00:38,420 --> 00:00:41,626 Hari asked me to talk about complex systems, which 16 00:00:41,626 --> 00:00:46,660 is kind of what you've been studying all semester. 17 00:00:46,660 --> 00:00:49,856 Today I want to give you of a hint 18 00:00:49,856 --> 00:00:52,150 of another kind of complexity. 19 00:00:52,150 --> 00:00:56,260 You have been doing the technical infrastructure 20 00:00:56,260 --> 00:01:07,250 for essentially what has become the information age. 21 00:01:07,250 --> 00:01:14,580 But the information age has just changed the world immensely 22 00:01:14,580 --> 00:01:17,330 over the last 20 years and has run smack 23 00:01:17,330 --> 00:01:19,930 into another kind of complexity. 24 00:01:19,930 --> 00:01:25,190 And that is the complexity of how the stuff that we have all 25 00:01:25,190 --> 00:01:32,150 built as computer scientists and engineers has created 26 00:01:32,150 --> 00:01:34,210 these enormous stressors in the way people 27 00:01:34,210 --> 00:01:34,310 think about the legal structures and the regulatory structures, 28 00:01:34,310 --> 00:01:37,210 the way people deal with the world. 29 00:01:37,210 --> 00:01:43,780 And [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE], but in order [to make use of that?] 30 00:01:43,780 --> 00:01:49,160 you have to understand that suddenly you're dealing with 31 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:50,950 the real world. 32 00:01:50,950 --> 00:01:56,560 It's not just problem sets or it's not just little 33 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,400 theoretical issues of [protocol or authorization?]. 34 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,714 It is real impact on people's lives. 35 00:02:04,714 --> 00:02:06,630 And you run into people who think differently. 36 00:02:06,630 --> 00:02:08,004 And, in particular, you are going 37 00:02:08,004 --> 00:02:12,120 to have to learn to think about how lawmakers and the law 38 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,840 and lots of other institutions deal with this. 39 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,290 This lecture, if you like, is partly 40 00:02:18,290 --> 00:02:22,880 a bit of an advertisement for 6.805 which, of course, 41 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,060 I teach in the fall. 42 00:02:26,060 --> 00:02:33,390 And what 6.805 really is about is empowering you. 43 00:02:33,390 --> 00:02:35,640 What you have to understand is [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] 44 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:40,790 courses you take like 6.033, you now 45 00:02:40,790 --> 00:02:45,737 know more about the information architecture 46 00:02:45,737 --> 00:02:46,820 that makes the world work. 47 00:02:46,820 --> 00:02:52,330 And the most miniscule part of humanity. 48 00:02:52,330 --> 00:02:55,110 And that can be a way to have impact, 49 00:02:55,110 --> 00:02:58,930 but only if you understand how that impacts 50 00:02:58,930 --> 00:03:00,550 the regulatory structure. 51 00:03:00,550 --> 00:03:06,310 Just to give you a tiny example, about two weeks ago the MBTA 52 00:03:06,310 --> 00:03:11,460 put out for comments, their new privacy policy which 53 00:03:11,460 --> 00:03:14,950 was stimulated by the fact that the MBTA is planning 54 00:03:14,950 --> 00:03:19,860 on instituting a new fare system that uses our FID tokens. 55 00:03:19,860 --> 00:03:22,250 And one of the things that went into that policy 56 00:03:22,250 --> 00:03:28,240 is a whole bunch of criticism by a student project team in 6.805 57 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,930 last fall who worked with the state senator who 58 00:03:32,930 --> 00:03:35,730 was getting on the MBTA's case about not having 59 00:03:35,730 --> 00:03:38,000 adequate privacy regulations. 60 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,740 So this bunch of MIT students essentially 61 00:03:39,740 --> 00:03:42,330 wrote the privacy regulations that 62 00:03:42,330 --> 00:03:44,451 are now being sent out to the public 63 00:03:44,451 --> 00:03:45,700 in the State of Massachusetts. 64 00:03:45,700 --> 00:03:49,300 That's a tiny example of the kind of thing 65 00:03:49,300 --> 00:03:53,241 that you are now prepared to do better than almost anybody 66 00:03:53,241 --> 00:03:53,990 else in the world. 67 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,580 What I am going to talk about today 68 00:03:58,580 --> 00:04:04,780 is how these new architectures, the ones you've been studying, 69 00:04:04,780 --> 00:04:06,992 as you've already seen, what happens 70 00:04:06,992 --> 00:04:08,700 when you have a big complex architecture, 71 00:04:08,700 --> 00:04:10,741 you have to think about interactions of protocols 72 00:04:10,741 --> 00:04:13,950 and their standards and their enormous unintended 73 00:04:13,950 --> 00:04:16,337 consequences of things fitting together. 74 00:04:16,337 --> 00:04:18,670 That's what you've been doing, for lots of the semester, 75 00:04:18,670 --> 00:04:19,988 is using understanding that. 76 00:04:19,988 --> 00:04:21,529 But today I want to talk a little bit 77 00:04:21,529 --> 00:04:26,000 about how the same thing happens with the legal architecture. 78 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,020 There are protocols, there are standards 79 00:04:28,020 --> 00:04:32,470 and there are enormous, enormous unintended consequences 80 00:04:32,470 --> 00:04:38,950 of people working on different parts of a complex system. 81 00:04:38,950 --> 00:04:42,420 Well, I am not going to talk about privacy today. 82 00:04:42,420 --> 00:04:45,010 That is a thing that the fall course does. 83 00:04:45,010 --> 00:04:51,650 Today I want to talk about regulating speech, you know, 84 00:04:51,650 --> 00:04:54,670 speech, images, sounds, the way that society 85 00:04:54,670 --> 00:04:58,150 thinks about that and sort of the mess 86 00:04:58,150 --> 00:05:01,360 that the Internet has created around that. 87 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,690 And so we can take like the simplest picture. 88 00:05:04,690 --> 00:05:08,240 There is the Internet and there is a source some place 89 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,220 and there is a destination some place 90 00:05:10,220 --> 00:05:12,740 and then there is this cloud that is the Internet that they 91 00:05:12,740 --> 00:05:14,170 are communicating with. 92 00:05:14,170 --> 00:05:16,620 And that is the stupidest simplest picture. 93 00:05:16,620 --> 00:05:19,170 You guys know infinitely more about this picture. 94 00:05:19,170 --> 00:05:23,330 Just to unpeel the very first level of that. 95 00:05:23,330 --> 00:05:27,100 You know that both the source and destination are probably 96 00:05:27,100 --> 00:05:30,577 connected to the Net using an Internet service provider. 97 00:05:30,577 --> 00:05:32,160 And then, of course, inside that cloud 98 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,050 that is all sorts of stuff. 99 00:05:34,050 --> 00:05:37,840 There are Cisco switched and hubs and phone companies 100 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:39,340 and all sorts of things translating. 101 00:05:39,340 --> 00:05:42,230 You can fill out the complexity of that picture right now, 102 00:05:42,230 --> 00:05:44,540 but let's stay even at the simple one. 103 00:05:44,540 --> 00:05:48,140 Suppose something is happening there 104 00:05:48,140 --> 00:05:53,360 that somebody doesn't like. 105 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:59,910 Somebody is downloading copyrighted music or something 106 00:05:59,910 --> 00:06:01,940 and the recording industry hates that. 107 00:06:01,940 --> 00:06:07,660 Somebody is sending threatening letters to somebody else. 108 00:06:07,660 --> 00:06:10,660 Somebody is doing gambling at a place where 109 00:06:10,660 --> 00:06:11,910 you're not supposed to gamble. 110 00:06:11,910 --> 00:06:15,050 Something that somebody doesn't like. 111 00:06:15,050 --> 00:06:18,990 And let's think about we, society, 112 00:06:18,990 --> 00:06:23,420 would like to figure out how you can stop that or make it happen 113 00:06:23,420 --> 00:06:25,495 less by imposing regulation. 114 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:32,890 And the question is in any of these transactions 115 00:06:32,890 --> 00:06:36,610 there are all sorts of places that you can impose regulation. 116 00:06:36,610 --> 00:06:39,630 You can go to the source and you can say, hey, 117 00:06:39,630 --> 00:06:44,750 stop sending that pornography. 118 00:06:44,750 --> 00:06:46,600 You could go to the destination and you 119 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:51,890 would say, hey, stop pulling down that copyrighted music. 120 00:06:51,890 --> 00:06:53,340 You could go to the ISPs. 121 00:06:53,340 --> 00:06:58,790 I am sure nobody here has every downloaded copyrighted 122 00:06:58,790 --> 00:07:00,170 music over the Internet. 123 00:07:00,170 --> 00:07:03,560 But you can imagine the [RA?] going to MIT and saying, hey, 124 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,700 MIT, you are the ISP for this connection, 125 00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:09,330 you put a stop to it. 126 00:07:09,330 --> 00:07:14,570 You can even imagine somebody going to the cloud. 127 00:07:14,570 --> 00:07:17,040 You can imagine congress passing a regulation, 128 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,780 or maybe you can imagine it, but unfortunately a lot of congress 129 00:07:20,780 --> 00:07:24,200 can imagine passing a regulation that says something like, hey, 130 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:31,090 let's change those Cisco routers so that they won't pass along 131 00:07:31,090 --> 00:07:34,520 copyrighted information without permission. 132 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:35,910 And everybody here, hopefully you 133 00:07:35,910 --> 00:07:37,461 are shrinking in horror because you 134 00:07:37,461 --> 00:07:39,460 know about things like the end-to-end principle, 135 00:07:39,460 --> 00:07:41,760 and you say oh, my God, that violates 136 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,997 the end-to-to principle in a horrible, horrible way. 137 00:07:43,997 --> 00:07:45,580 But you don't think people in congress 138 00:07:45,580 --> 00:07:48,740 know about the end-to-end principle. 139 00:07:48,740 --> 00:07:51,650 They need people like you guys to explain it to them. 140 00:07:51,650 --> 00:07:55,500 That is the kind of thing that you can become empowered to do. 141 00:07:59,590 --> 00:08:04,000 Within that context, let's think about controlling 142 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,590 what people can say and how people can express themselves 143 00:08:06,590 --> 00:08:09,674 in words or music or images or whatever. 144 00:08:09,674 --> 00:08:11,090 Somebody comes down and says, hey, 145 00:08:11,090 --> 00:08:15,850 stop doing that, you really shouldn't post that thing, 146 00:08:15,850 --> 00:08:19,230 it is bugging somebody to hell. 147 00:08:19,230 --> 00:08:25,797 And you say oh, no, because I've got freedom of speech. 148 00:08:25,797 --> 00:08:27,130 Let's look at freedom of speech. 149 00:08:27,130 --> 00:08:30,330 Where does freedom of speech come from in this country? 150 00:08:30,330 --> 00:08:31,690 The First Amendment. 151 00:08:31,690 --> 00:08:34,659 This country has the First Amendment. 152 00:08:34,659 --> 00:08:42,390 Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment 153 00:08:42,390 --> 00:08:45,430 of religion, or abridging the freedom of speech, dot, dot, 154 00:08:45,430 --> 00:08:46,710 dot, dot, dot. 155 00:08:46,710 --> 00:08:48,710 So let's spend a little bit thinking about that. 156 00:08:51,220 --> 00:08:57,870 What does it mean when it says congress shall make no law? 157 00:08:57,870 --> 00:09:00,765 Who is Congress? 158 00:09:00,765 --> 00:09:01,640 Congress is congress. 159 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,310 Who else is restricted by the First Amendment? 160 00:09:06,310 --> 00:09:08,010 Is the State of Massachusetts congress? 161 00:09:08,010 --> 00:09:09,960 When the State of Massachusetts passes 162 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:15,360 a law that says you may not post this certain kind 163 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,950 of information, you may not post harassing information 164 00:09:17,950 --> 00:09:25,189 on the Internet, well, let me be more precise, 165 00:09:25,189 --> 00:09:27,230 could they do it within the confines of the First 166 00:09:27,230 --> 00:09:27,729 Amendment? 167 00:09:32,870 --> 00:09:34,359 We know that congress is congress. 168 00:09:34,359 --> 00:09:35,900 How about the State of Massachusetts, 169 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:38,050 are they congress? 170 00:09:38,050 --> 00:09:42,970 It actually turns out the State of Massachusetts 171 00:09:42,970 --> 00:09:46,090 is congress for the First Amendment. 172 00:09:46,090 --> 00:09:54,210 The Constitution is the law of the land. 173 00:09:54,210 --> 00:09:55,840 The Constitution says what it says. 174 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,490 It says congress cannot do it. 175 00:09:57,490 --> 00:10:01,882 And the Supreme Court has interpreted congress 176 00:10:01,882 --> 00:10:03,340 to mean the State of Massachusetts. 177 00:10:03,340 --> 00:10:06,830 How about if the City of Cambridge passes a law that 178 00:10:06,830 --> 00:10:11,470 says you cannot send these kinds of things? 179 00:10:14,259 --> 00:10:16,300 Well, it turns out the City of Cambridge is, too. 180 00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:19,490 It turns out the First Amendment covers most governmental things 181 00:10:19,490 --> 00:10:20,270 in the US. 182 00:10:20,270 --> 00:10:20,950 How about MIT? 183 00:10:25,930 --> 00:10:29,440 Could MIT, for example, have a rule that says that? 184 00:10:37,470 --> 00:10:40,930 Can there be an MIT regulation that says that? 185 00:10:40,930 --> 00:10:43,450 How many people think there could be? 186 00:10:43,450 --> 00:10:47,750 And, by could, I mean without violating the Constitution. 187 00:10:47,750 --> 00:10:51,360 How many people think MIT could do that? 188 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:53,179 How many people think MIT cannot? 189 00:10:53,179 --> 00:10:55,720 You go and take them to court and say it is unconstitutional. 190 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,810 How about UMass Boston? 191 00:11:04,810 --> 00:11:06,710 Could UMass Boston have a regulation 192 00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:12,570 like that without violating the First Amendment? 193 00:11:12,570 --> 00:11:13,320 What do you think? 194 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:14,611 How many people think it could? 195 00:11:17,370 --> 00:11:20,480 How many people think it couldn't? 196 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,950 How many people have no idea? 197 00:11:22,950 --> 00:11:25,190 Well, sort of have no idea is the right answer. 198 00:11:25,190 --> 00:11:28,230 But it kind of turns out that this language actually comes 199 00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:32,640 exactly from a policy at the University of Michigan 200 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,900 ten years ago which was struck down by the court. 201 00:11:41,290 --> 00:11:46,860 That was, whatever we call these things, harassment policy 202 00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:47,509 or something. 203 00:11:47,509 --> 00:11:49,300 That was actually struck down by the court. 204 00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:51,799 And what the judge said was, look, this might be a good idea 205 00:11:51,799 --> 00:11:53,720 and we might like it, but in this country 206 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:58,270 government institutions like by extension 207 00:11:58,270 --> 00:12:00,860 of the State of Michigan and the University of Michigan 208 00:12:00,860 --> 00:12:02,485 are constrained by the First Amendment. 209 00:12:06,610 --> 00:12:07,854 MIT is not. 210 00:12:07,854 --> 00:12:09,770 We can argue whether or not it is a good idea, 211 00:12:09,770 --> 00:12:13,840 but it is not unconstitutional for MIT to do that. 212 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,100 Now, you might ask do you guys have 213 00:12:18,100 --> 00:12:21,390 less solid guarantees of freedom of speech 214 00:12:21,390 --> 00:12:24,181 than students at UMass Boston? 215 00:12:24,181 --> 00:12:25,055 Well, yeah, probably. 216 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,000 There are lots of things that congress, 217 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,010 and by the extension of congress, cannot prohibit. 218 00:12:35,010 --> 00:12:37,710 But what are some things that congress can prohibit? 219 00:12:37,710 --> 00:12:41,310 What are some kinds of speech or images or things that you 220 00:12:41,310 --> 00:12:42,820 actually can have laws against? 221 00:12:42,820 --> 00:12:44,020 What do you think? 222 00:12:44,020 --> 00:12:46,420 Are there any limits to this at all? 223 00:12:46,420 --> 00:12:47,620 What do you think? 224 00:12:47,620 --> 00:12:50,540 Is there any kind of thing that you have limits? 225 00:12:50,540 --> 00:12:52,445 This is about speech. 226 00:12:55,340 --> 00:12:58,720 This is not about actions. 227 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:11,670 Are there kinds of speech or images of things? 228 00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:12,820 Child pornography. 229 00:13:12,820 --> 00:13:16,770 We cannot actually possess child pornography in this country. 230 00:13:16,770 --> 00:13:19,460 We will get back to that in a second. 231 00:13:19,460 --> 00:13:24,180 Anything that can be defined as interstate commerce? 232 00:13:24,180 --> 00:13:27,911 No, that just means you cannot reregulate it. 233 00:13:27,911 --> 00:13:30,160 I am asking what are some examples of stuff you cannot 234 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,260 post on the Internet. 235 00:13:32,260 --> 00:13:35,860 Libel or slander. 236 00:13:35,860 --> 00:13:41,310 There is a whole bit of that copyright infringement 237 00:13:41,310 --> 00:13:42,080 we talk about. 238 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,050 How about pornography? 239 00:13:44,050 --> 00:13:50,030 You get in trouble for posting pornography on the Internet. 240 00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:53,540 Can that be prohibited under state law? 241 00:13:53,540 --> 00:13:56,960 It turns out it depends what you mean by pornography. 242 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,370 In fact, if we sort of elevate up 243 00:13:58,370 --> 00:14:00,650 from pornography to what is normally called, 244 00:14:00,650 --> 00:14:05,320 you know, pornography is bad, but really bad. 245 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:10,820 The word for really bad in US law is obscenity. 246 00:14:10,820 --> 00:14:13,962 And it turns out, well, let's see if you know. 247 00:14:13,962 --> 00:14:16,170 Do you think there is a legal definition of obscenity 248 00:14:16,170 --> 00:14:20,860 or is it like hey, it is really bad stuff? 249 00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:23,840 How many think there is a formal legal definition when 250 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,340 the court looks at something and says it is obscene? 251 00:14:27,340 --> 00:14:32,076 And how many think it is like really bad stuff? 252 00:14:32,076 --> 00:14:33,200 The first people are right. 253 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,810 There actually is, in this country, 254 00:14:34,810 --> 00:14:38,480 a legal definition of obscenity which was established in a case 255 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:39,280 called Miller v. 256 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,030 California in the `70s. 257 00:14:41,030 --> 00:14:44,185 And it says this is the definition of obscenity 258 00:14:44,185 --> 00:14:45,060 according to the law. 259 00:14:45,060 --> 00:14:47,220 It is called the Miller Test. 260 00:14:47,220 --> 00:14:52,240 It says something is obscene if it satisfied all 261 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,060 of the following three things. 262 00:14:54,060 --> 00:14:56,060 A three have to be true. 263 00:14:56,060 --> 00:14:59,440 The first one is that it depicts sexual activity 264 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,690 in a patently offensive way. 265 00:15:02,690 --> 00:15:04,540 So like it is not an anatomy book. 266 00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:08,792 That is sort about what the stuff is. 267 00:15:08,792 --> 00:15:10,500 The second one is how people react to it. 268 00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:12,630 It is a very interesting test. 269 00:15:12,630 --> 00:15:25,510 It says would the average person applying contemporary community 270 00:15:25,510 --> 00:15:30,760 standards find that that appeals to the prurient interest? 271 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,200 It is sort of saying it is not the extreme guys that 272 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,050 are really sensitive and it is not 273 00:15:35,050 --> 00:15:37,080 the guys who will just tolerate everything. 274 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,050 It is the average person applying contemporary community 275 00:15:40,050 --> 00:15:40,990 standards. 276 00:15:40,990 --> 00:15:43,780 And then the third one is, what people used to say, 277 00:15:43,780 --> 00:15:48,080 utterly devoid of any scientific, literary, artistic 278 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:48,910 or political value. 279 00:15:48,910 --> 00:15:53,000 That is sometimes called the Slap Test in law. 280 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,010 So there is a thing called obscenity. 281 00:15:55,010 --> 00:15:57,810 And, according to the law, the Supreme Court, 282 00:15:57,810 --> 00:16:01,930 actually in the Miller case, found it constitutional 283 00:16:01,930 --> 00:16:07,679 for there to be laws against transmitting obscene material, 284 00:16:07,679 --> 00:16:09,720 and somebody said it, before interstate commerce. 285 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,386 So interstate commerce is not prohibited 286 00:16:11,386 --> 00:16:31,080 but it is the hook by which you can prohibit something. 287 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:41,660 So it is 1994 and Robert and Carlene Thomas 288 00:16:41,660 --> 00:16:44,230 have a cute little family business 289 00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:48,050 in Milpitas, California. 290 00:16:48,050 --> 00:16:52,380 And what they do is run a thing called the Amateur Action 291 00:16:52,380 --> 00:16:54,050 Bulletin Board system. 292 00:16:54,050 --> 00:16:56,880 Back before we had Internet and ISPs, 293 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:01,060 people had these bulletin boards you would dial up. 294 00:17:01,060 --> 00:17:05,599 They ran the Amateur Action Bulletin Board system. 295 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,579 And they distributed from that, well, 296 00:17:08,579 --> 00:17:11,960 stuff that you wouldn't show around in polite company. 297 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:17,190 In fact, their logo was we are the nastiest 298 00:17:17,190 --> 00:17:20,800 place on earth in 1994. 299 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,530 Well, two years ago, 1992, they got 300 00:17:24,530 --> 00:17:27,927 raided by the Milpitas police who said, God, 301 00:17:27,927 --> 00:17:29,260 you've got all this smut around. 302 00:17:29,260 --> 00:17:31,000 We are going to close you down. 303 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:31,830 They protested. 304 00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:36,130 The police looked at it and said, well, it is bad stuff 305 00:17:36,130 --> 00:17:39,450 but it is not obscene by the standards of Milpitas, 306 00:17:39,450 --> 00:17:40,950 California, we will leave you alone. 307 00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:47,560 Now we are back in 1994. 308 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:52,030 There is a knock on the door and in come 309 00:17:52,030 --> 00:17:58,135 the Milpitas police accompanied by the US Postal Inspectors. 310 00:18:00,930 --> 00:18:08,400 And Robert and Carlene are accused 311 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,010 of transmitting obscene material using 312 00:18:12,010 --> 00:18:16,000 a means of interstate communication, namely 313 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:20,200 a computer and a modem and a phone line, 314 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,780 to transmit obscene materials interstate. 315 00:18:23,780 --> 00:18:26,590 And they are accused of transmitting them interstate 316 00:18:26,590 --> 00:18:30,150 to David Deremer. 317 00:18:30,150 --> 00:18:33,410 Who is David Deremer? 318 00:18:33,410 --> 00:18:34,950 They don't know who this guy is. 319 00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:39,990 It turns out that David Deremer is a postal inspector 320 00:18:39,990 --> 00:18:42,655 in Memphis, Tennessee. 321 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,390 And he gets a complaint from somebody in Western, Tennessee 322 00:18:49,390 --> 00:18:51,680 saying there is this awful smut on the Internet, 323 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:56,090 can't the US Postal Authority do anything about it? 324 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:04,300 He takes his computer and dials up 325 00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:08,350 Welcome to Amateur Action Bulletin Board, the nastiest 326 00:19:08,350 --> 00:19:11,250 place on earth, and here are some titillating little pieces 327 00:19:11,250 --> 00:19:12,800 of stuff that you can get from us. 328 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,030 But, if you really want the good stuff, send in $55, 329 00:19:16,030 --> 00:19:19,010 register and join. 330 00:19:19,010 --> 00:19:25,580 He sends in his phone number, addressed and an assumed name 331 00:19:25,580 --> 00:19:27,500 with his $55. 332 00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:29,810 A couple days later he gets a call 333 00:19:29,810 --> 00:19:34,150 from Robert Thomas saying hi, thanks for your $55 bucks. 334 00:19:34,150 --> 00:19:36,210 Here is your password, good to town, 335 00:19:36,210 --> 00:19:39,200 have fun, welcome to the nastiest place on earth. 336 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,800 So he downloads some stuff and then 337 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:47,810 files a complaint against them because of this transmission 338 00:19:47,810 --> 00:19:51,444 of this material interstate from Milpitas, California 339 00:19:51,444 --> 00:19:52,360 to Memphis, Tennessee. 340 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:58,740 The police come, they arrest the Thomas's, 341 00:19:58,740 --> 00:20:04,420 they impound all their stuff and go 342 00:20:04,420 --> 00:20:10,030 on trial before a jury in Memphis, Tennessee 343 00:20:10,030 --> 00:20:15,820 which convicts them of transmitting material that 344 00:20:15,820 --> 00:20:19,050 is obscene by the community standards of Memphis, 345 00:20:19,050 --> 00:20:22,000 Tennessee, which are different from the community 346 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:34,283 standards of Milpitas, California. 347 00:20:38,740 --> 00:20:45,170 So what do you think of that? 348 00:20:45,170 --> 00:20:46,250 Do you think that is OK? 349 00:20:46,250 --> 00:20:50,700 [UNINTELLIGIBLE PHRASE] Is Thomas in Tennessee 350 00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:53,890 or is he in California, that is the question. 351 00:20:53,890 --> 00:20:56,890 They appeal their conviction and they lose. 352 00:20:56,890 --> 00:20:58,984 And the judge basically says, well, 353 00:20:58,984 --> 00:21:00,400 I don't quite want to decide this, 354 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,235 but notice dumdum that you had the guy's phone number 355 00:21:04,235 --> 00:21:06,110 so you knew where he was when you called him. 356 00:21:06,110 --> 00:21:08,530 So you should have been aware that this stuff was 357 00:21:08,530 --> 00:21:13,320 going to Memphis, Tennessee. 358 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:18,310 Three years in jail under that. 359 00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:21,387 Let's move away from pornography or obscenity for a minute. 360 00:21:21,387 --> 00:21:22,970 Here is another thing that is illegal. 361 00:21:22,970 --> 00:21:27,740 It is illegal to traffic in that stuff. 362 00:21:30,327 --> 00:21:32,160 It is illegal to traffic in that stuff, that 363 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:37,680 is Hitler's something birthday commemorative stamp, in France. 364 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,070 It is OK in the US, but in France it 365 00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:44,970 is illegal to traffic a Nazi memorabilia. 366 00:21:44,970 --> 00:21:50,430 And in 2000, this is on the Yahoo Auction, 367 00:21:50,430 --> 00:21:56,150 actually this page isn't up anymore, some folks in France 368 00:21:56,150 --> 00:22:03,900 filed a lawsuit against Yahoo for allowing people in France 369 00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:09,575 to connect to Yahoo in the US and order Nazi memorabilia. 370 00:22:13,660 --> 00:22:18,770 You might want to compare that with the Amateur Action Case, 371 00:22:18,770 --> 00:22:21,520 but that case is still going on. 372 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:22,782 It has gone back and forth. 373 00:22:22,782 --> 00:22:24,240 It is widely complicated because it 374 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,710 involves international law and French courts and US courts. 375 00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:29,150 It is still going on since 2000. 376 00:22:29,150 --> 00:22:33,300 There is an article that came out two weeks ago 377 00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:36,750 that talks about this case being argued in front of the Ninth 378 00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:38,610 Circuit in California. 379 00:22:38,610 --> 00:22:42,290 Enormously complex stuff because what 380 00:22:42,290 --> 00:22:47,640 does this stuff mean in a world where distance is meaningless? 381 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:52,150 I mean you guys know there are McDonald's in Missouri where 382 00:22:52,150 --> 00:22:55,250 you drive up to this window and you put in your order 383 00:22:55,250 --> 00:22:58,460 and there is a camera and you say what your order is. 384 00:22:58,460 --> 00:23:00,780 And then you drive around and you pick up your stuff 385 00:23:00,780 --> 00:23:01,490 at the kitchen. 386 00:23:01,490 --> 00:23:06,260 There are McDonald's in Missouri where that transaction from you 387 00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:11,270 ordering it goes to a McDonald's call center 388 00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:14,280 in Colorado which pieces the thing 389 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,712 together, sends it back to the kitchen at the McDonald's 390 00:23:18,712 --> 00:23:19,670 you are at in Missouri. 391 00:23:19,670 --> 00:23:21,770 And, by the time you drive around the McDonald's 392 00:23:21,770 --> 00:23:25,330 to pick this thing up, your order is ready. 393 00:23:25,330 --> 00:23:27,630 And, because this call center in Colorado 394 00:23:27,630 --> 00:23:30,046 does a whole bunch of them and has people who are trained, 395 00:23:30,046 --> 00:23:32,570 it is cheaper for McDonald's and faster 396 00:23:32,570 --> 00:23:36,440 to route this transaction from Missouri 397 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,982 to Colorado in the time you are driving around the building 398 00:23:38,982 --> 00:23:41,440 than it would be if they ran the thing through the kitchen. 399 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,023 You have to ask, in a world like that, 400 00:23:43,023 --> 00:23:46,170 that's the world that we are all making with the Internet. 401 00:23:46,170 --> 00:23:47,910 And what do these laws mean? 402 00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:54,800 That is a little bit about obscenity 403 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,110 and contemporary standards. 404 00:24:00,050 --> 00:24:04,200 In 1995, most people in this country 405 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,750 were barely aware that there was an Internet. 406 00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:11,050 And the way most people in the country 407 00:24:11,050 --> 00:24:14,760 learned in 1995 that there was a thing 408 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,620 called the Internet was this way. 409 00:24:17,620 --> 00:24:25,280 That is Time Magazine from July 1995. 410 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,030 You guys think it is funny. 411 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,140 Time Magazine teaching people about the Internet. 412 00:24:33,140 --> 00:24:37,020 Sex is everywhere these days, in books, magazines, films, 413 00:24:37,020 --> 00:24:39,990 television, music videos and bus stop perfume ads. 414 00:24:39,990 --> 00:24:42,310 Americans have become so endured to the open display 415 00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:44,357 of eroticism and the arguments for why 416 00:24:44,357 --> 00:24:46,440 it enjoys special status under the First Amendment 417 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,410 that they hardly notice it is there. 418 00:24:48,410 --> 00:24:50,110 But something about the combination 419 00:24:50,110 --> 00:24:53,280 of sex and computers seems to make otherwise worldly 420 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,760 wide adults a little crazy. 421 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,470 And if you think things are crazy now, 422 00:24:57,470 --> 00:24:59,740 still quoting from the article in 1995, 423 00:24:59,740 --> 00:25:02,960 wait until the politicians get hold of a report coming out 424 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,510 this week. 425 00:25:04,510 --> 00:25:07,320 A research team at Carnegie Mellon University 426 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,660 has conducted an exhaustive study of online porn. 427 00:25:11,660 --> 00:25:15,860 Who is downloading? 428 00:25:15,860 --> 00:25:17,350 What turns them on? 429 00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:20,630 And feelings are sure to pour out. 430 00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:28,530 And, low and behold, published a study about online porn 431 00:25:28,530 --> 00:25:32,100 where they carefully studied the habits 432 00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:34,690 of average Americans, who I think 433 00:25:34,690 --> 00:25:39,199 were CMU undergraduates, using Usenet. 434 00:25:39,199 --> 00:25:40,990 And they found out interesting conclusions. 435 00:25:40,990 --> 00:25:43,700 One is they found out that Robert and Carlene were 436 00:25:43,700 --> 00:25:44,940 actually doing really well. 437 00:25:44,940 --> 00:25:46,960 They were pulling in over $1 million a year 438 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,080 in their business out in Milpitas. 439 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:58,497 And the other is 83.5% of all images posted on Usenet 440 00:25:58,497 --> 00:25:59,205 are pornographic. 441 00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:05,360 June 26, 1995, Senator Charles Grassley, 442 00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:07,100 who is still in the senate, right up 443 00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:08,820 on the floor of the senate, Mr. 444 00:26:08,820 --> 00:26:11,730 President, there is an article from Time Magazine 445 00:26:11,730 --> 00:26:14,340 and an article that I ask unanimous consent 446 00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:16,871 to have printed in the Congressional Record. 447 00:26:16,871 --> 00:26:17,370 Mr. 448 00:26:17,370 --> 00:26:18,995 President, this morning I want to speak 449 00:26:18,995 --> 00:26:21,890 on a topic that has received a lot of attention around here 450 00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:22,390 lately. 451 00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:25,270 My topic is cyber porn. 452 00:26:25,270 --> 00:26:25,770 Mr. 453 00:26:25,770 --> 00:26:29,680 President, Georgetown University has released a remarkable study 454 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,660 conducted by researchers of Carnegie Mellon University. 455 00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:34,500 This study raised important questions 456 00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:38,170 about the availability and the nature of cyber porn. 457 00:26:38,170 --> 00:26:41,260 The University surveyed 900,000 computer images. 458 00:26:41,260 --> 00:26:46,530 Of these 900,000, 83.5% of all computerized photographs 459 00:26:46,530 --> 00:26:49,980 available on the Internet are pornographic. 460 00:26:49,980 --> 00:26:54,240 I want to repeat that, 83.5%, these are all on the Internet 461 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,170 and are pornographic according to the Carnegie Mellon study. 462 00:26:58,170 --> 00:27:00,740 I believe congress must act and do so 463 00:27:00,740 --> 00:27:03,640 in a constitutional manner to help parents who are 464 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,240 under assault this day and age. 465 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,280 There is a flood of vial pornography 466 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:13,070 and we must act now to stem the growing tide. 467 00:27:13,070 --> 00:27:19,660 And, indeed, congress acted and passed a law the Communications 468 00:27:19,660 --> 00:27:20,550 Decency Act. 469 00:27:20,550 --> 00:27:24,530 You want to look at the words of this, 470 00:27:24,530 --> 00:27:27,180 they are quite important It basically 471 00:27:27,180 --> 00:27:31,330 said that anybody who makes available to someone 472 00:27:31,330 --> 00:27:37,910 under the age 18 years things that are patently 473 00:27:37,910 --> 00:27:41,280 offensive measured by contemporary community 474 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:48,950 standards, dot, dot, dot, or knowingly 475 00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:52,650 allows a telecommunications facility to be used 476 00:27:52,650 --> 00:27:57,980 for that purpose shall be fined under title 18 477 00:27:57,980 --> 00:28:01,300 or imprisoned for not more than two years. 478 00:28:01,300 --> 00:28:04,450 This is called the Display Provision 479 00:28:04,450 --> 00:28:07,880 of the Communications Decency Act passed into law 480 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,690 at the beginning of 1996. 481 00:28:10,690 --> 00:28:13,870 And notice what it is doing in terms of our picture. 482 00:28:13,870 --> 00:28:16,630 It is saying there is bad stuff going on. 483 00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:19,860 Who can get hammered? 484 00:28:19,860 --> 00:28:21,920 The person sending it? 485 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:27,500 The ISP who knowingly makes that stuff available? 486 00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:29,575 Cisco who is building the routers? 487 00:28:29,575 --> 00:28:30,075 Maybe. 488 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,590 This became part of US law. 489 00:28:36,590 --> 00:28:42,190 They also added another thing that was kind of interesting. 490 00:28:42,190 --> 00:28:44,450 They added a thing called the Good Samaritan 491 00:28:44,450 --> 00:28:47,220 Provision of the Act which says nobody 492 00:28:47,220 --> 00:28:51,390 who is an ISP, that was to help these poor guys who were 493 00:28:51,390 --> 00:28:55,890 feeling very nervous, shall be treated 494 00:28:55,890 --> 00:29:01,617 as the publisher of bad stuff if the information came 495 00:29:01,617 --> 00:29:02,450 from somewhere else. 496 00:29:02,450 --> 00:29:04,158 And I will come back to that in a minute. 497 00:29:09,530 --> 00:29:11,180 Why did they add that? 498 00:29:11,180 --> 00:29:18,460 Well, it is 1990 and there is a bulletin board 499 00:29:18,460 --> 00:29:20,340 system called CompuServe. 500 00:29:20,340 --> 00:29:22,740 Is CompuServe still around? 501 00:29:22,740 --> 00:29:23,650 Does anybody know? 502 00:29:23,650 --> 00:29:26,600 It got bought by AOL? 503 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,080 CompuServe was one of the early ones. 504 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,510 And CompuServe had a bunch of B boards. 505 00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:39,331 And they had a thing called Rumorville or someone was using 506 00:29:39,331 --> 00:29:41,580 CompuServe to post a thing called Rumorville which was 507 00:29:41,580 --> 00:29:43,160 part of their journalism forum. 508 00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:49,660 Another guy named Robert Blanchard starts up 509 00:29:49,660 --> 00:29:53,430 another online publication called Scuttlebutt, 510 00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:57,500 and it was designed to compete with Rumorville. 511 00:29:57,500 --> 00:30:01,480 Rumorville then starts publishing 512 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,549 defamatory statements about Blanchard and Scuttlebutt. 513 00:30:06,549 --> 00:30:07,590 The whole this is a scam. 514 00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:08,298 They are no good. 515 00:30:08,298 --> 00:30:11,310 They rip off their stories by copying them from Rumorville, 516 00:30:11,310 --> 00:30:13,370 dot, dot, dot. 517 00:30:13,370 --> 00:30:17,090 And Blanchard goes and sues CompuServe. 518 00:30:23,495 --> 00:30:25,120 You guys are letting this stuff happen. 519 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,220 It is hurting my business. 520 00:30:29,220 --> 00:30:30,900 Now, what is he suing them for? 521 00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:33,370 He is suing them under a law called defamation. 522 00:30:33,370 --> 00:30:35,240 Another little piece of law. 523 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,490 This is another thing that you can get in trouble for. 524 00:30:37,490 --> 00:30:42,490 Defamation is something, again, all three things, is false, 525 00:30:42,490 --> 00:30:48,680 you communicate to somebody else and causes damage. 526 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,230 There are two kinds of defamation. 527 00:30:50,230 --> 00:30:52,830 There is the stuff that you say which is slander and the stuff 528 00:30:52,830 --> 00:30:54,860 that you write that is libel. 529 00:30:54,860 --> 00:30:57,660 So Blanchard goes and sues CompuServe for defamation. 530 00:31:02,420 --> 00:31:08,160 And it is one of the basic first rulings on Internet defamation 531 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:08,950 law, Cubby v. 532 00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:09,910 CompuServe. 533 00:31:09,910 --> 00:31:14,250 The judge basically says tough, CompuServe is just 534 00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:16,507 like a bookstore and they have some books there 535 00:31:16,507 --> 00:31:18,590 and they don't really know what is in those books. 536 00:31:18,590 --> 00:31:21,250 You cannot really hammer them for what is in their books. 537 00:31:21,250 --> 00:31:24,590 They neither knew nor had any reason 538 00:31:24,590 --> 00:31:26,960 to know what was in that stuff. 539 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:37,350 Go sue Rumorville but CompuServe is off the hook. 540 00:31:37,350 --> 00:31:40,280 In terms of our picture of regulation, 541 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:53,732 the court is saying for defamation it is that. 542 00:31:56,950 --> 00:31:58,700 Well, there are some poor innocent people. 543 00:31:58,700 --> 00:31:59,590 You. 544 00:31:59,590 --> 00:32:01,756 You're sitting there, you're logged into CompuServe, 545 00:32:01,756 --> 00:32:03,660 you read some awful thing about Rumorville, 546 00:32:03,660 --> 00:32:05,480 she is supposed to get hammered for that? 547 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,790 Other people who are just sort of knowing that the source was 548 00:32:10,790 --> 00:32:12,575 coming from there. 549 00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:21,740 That was 1990, five years later. 550 00:32:21,740 --> 00:32:24,642 Five years later the Internet is growing. 551 00:32:24,642 --> 00:32:26,100 There is concern about pornography. 552 00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:30,010 It is not only the uber geeks who were using CompuServe, 553 00:32:30,010 --> 00:32:31,620 there was a company called Prodigy. 554 00:32:31,620 --> 00:32:33,410 Prodigy still exists. 555 00:32:33,410 --> 00:32:35,860 Prodigy was a bulletin board. 556 00:32:35,860 --> 00:32:40,840 They advertised themselves as a family friendly service. 557 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,310 Hi, guys, there is this Internet. 558 00:32:43,310 --> 00:32:44,970 You can join Prodigy. 559 00:32:44,970 --> 00:32:47,140 It is kind of safe for your kids. 560 00:32:47,140 --> 00:32:49,490 And the way they did that is they had chat rooms 561 00:32:49,490 --> 00:32:52,240 and hired people to moderate their chat rooms, 562 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,490 and if any bad stuff happened the moderator would cut it off. 563 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,060 So Prodigy is running the family-oriented B board 564 00:33:03,060 --> 00:33:04,720 service. 565 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,780 And there is a company that is an investment banking 566 00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:09,160 place called Stratton-Oakmont. 567 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,200 And somebody on one of the Prodigy bulletin boards 568 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,550 starts publishing stuff about Stratton-Oakmont. 569 00:33:20,550 --> 00:33:22,220 They don't know who this somebody is. 570 00:33:22,220 --> 00:33:23,740 It is anonymous. 571 00:33:23,740 --> 00:33:25,370 Stratton-Oakmont is a bunch of crooks. 572 00:33:25,370 --> 00:33:27,260 The president was in jail. 573 00:33:27,260 --> 00:33:29,420 This offering they are going to do is a fraud. 574 00:33:29,420 --> 00:33:34,020 And Stratton-Oakmont goes and sues Prodigy 575 00:33:34,020 --> 00:33:37,570 because whoever was posting it was anonymous. 576 00:33:37,570 --> 00:33:42,700 They go sue Prodigy, and Prodigy says hey, guys, 577 00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:43,660 we went through this. 578 00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:44,350 This is Cubby v. 579 00:33:44,350 --> 00:33:46,367 CompuServe all over again. 580 00:33:46,367 --> 00:33:48,700 Go find the people who are doing it, get on their backs, 581 00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:49,241 we are clean. 582 00:33:49,241 --> 00:33:58,280 And the New York State Court of Appeals say uh-uh, 583 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:03,090 you're not the same because you are moderating those chat 584 00:34:03,090 --> 00:34:04,200 rooms. 585 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,179 You are taking responsibility for what is being said there. 586 00:34:09,179 --> 00:34:14,310 Therefore, you have liability because you 587 00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:16,310 are doing the moderation. 588 00:34:16,310 --> 00:34:19,820 You, in fact, are libel as the publisher of that stuff 589 00:34:19,820 --> 00:34:28,020 because you are controlling it. 590 00:34:28,020 --> 00:34:32,400 It is quite comforting for freedom of speech 591 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:33,770 to let ISPs get off the hook. 592 00:34:33,770 --> 00:34:37,010 In response to this, every university lawyer 593 00:34:37,010 --> 00:34:39,230 at any place that had an Internet 594 00:34:39,230 --> 00:34:41,380 went to the administration and said 595 00:34:41,380 --> 00:34:46,600 hey, guys, don't control what the students are doing. 596 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,780 Whatever you do don't control it because, as soon as you do, 597 00:34:50,780 --> 00:34:52,980 you are liable. 598 00:34:52,980 --> 00:34:57,030 It certainly happened at MIT, and I assume very place else. 599 00:35:00,900 --> 00:35:04,710 But what is it doing in terms of our picture here? 600 00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:09,680 Our poor ISPs who were off the hook 601 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,045 now get targeted in a way big-time. 602 00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:17,220 Coming back to the Communications Decency Act, 603 00:35:17,220 --> 00:35:21,512 why was there that Good Samaritan Provision? 604 00:35:21,512 --> 00:35:23,970 Well, congress was sitting there saying well, gee, not only 605 00:35:23,970 --> 00:35:26,950 do we want to regulate pornography and stop that 606 00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:29,230 but we really would like the ISPs to help us. 607 00:35:29,230 --> 00:35:32,760 We would like them to filter this stuff out. 608 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,200 So it is the policy, and this is part of the law, 609 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,450 of the US that there should be filtering. 610 00:35:38,450 --> 00:35:42,490 And we want to encourage parents and ISPs and everybody to keep 611 00:35:42,490 --> 00:35:45,006 this smut off the network. 612 00:35:45,006 --> 00:35:47,130 On the other hand, that was right after the Prodigy 613 00:35:47,130 --> 00:35:49,530 decision. 614 00:35:49,530 --> 00:35:52,160 And all the ISPs said hey, wait a minute, 615 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,150 that's not going to work. 616 00:35:55,150 --> 00:35:57,200 So they passed this Good Samaritan Provision 617 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,117 which was trying to let them get off the hook. 618 00:35:59,117 --> 00:36:01,366 It is actually a little bit more complicated than that 619 00:36:01,366 --> 00:36:03,970 because this had to do with the republicans and the democrats 620 00:36:03,970 --> 00:36:07,760 and stuff that got worked out in committee and different bills 621 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,560 of which pieces were taken from other bills and put together. 622 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,300 Winston Churchill once said that anyone 623 00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:17,690 who likes sausages or law should never watch either 624 00:36:17,690 --> 00:36:19,920 of them being made. 625 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,610 And the Communications Decency Act is a little bit like that. 626 00:36:27,940 --> 00:36:31,434 Well, the law got passed in February 1996. 627 00:36:31,434 --> 00:36:33,350 The whole civil liberties were all going nuts. 628 00:36:33,350 --> 00:36:37,330 Everybody who was looking at Internet law went nuts. 629 00:36:37,330 --> 00:36:41,230 If you take 6.805 there is a long story 630 00:36:41,230 --> 00:36:45,250 about what eventually turned out to be a major, major decision 631 00:36:45,250 --> 00:36:47,600 in First Amendment law, which I won't go into here, 632 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:52,560 where the net result was the Supreme Court decided 633 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,785 that the Display Provision of the Communications Decency Act 634 00:36:56,785 --> 00:36:57,660 was unconstitutional. 635 00:37:06,010 --> 00:37:11,060 They said the community standards are too broad. 636 00:37:11,060 --> 00:37:15,630 If you apply that it means the standard of the most 637 00:37:15,630 --> 00:37:18,490 restrictive community will start replying 638 00:37:18,490 --> 00:37:19,960 across the whole country. 639 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,430 And it turns out the government can 640 00:37:24,430 --> 00:37:27,850 pass laws to protect kids access to stuff, 641 00:37:27,850 --> 00:37:31,970 but they say in this case, by this desire to protect kids, 642 00:37:31,970 --> 00:37:34,050 you are restricting adults from what 643 00:37:34,050 --> 00:37:36,330 they should be able to get. 644 00:37:36,330 --> 00:37:39,010 Anyway, a long, very, very important First Amendment 645 00:37:39,010 --> 00:37:44,800 decision, Reno v. 646 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:45,300 ACLU. 647 00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:49,780 The Supreme Court ruling came down and everybody was happy, 648 00:37:49,780 --> 00:37:51,890 civil liberty groups, everybody jumped up and down 649 00:37:51,890 --> 00:37:57,111 and said the Internet is a zone of free speech, which brings us 650 00:37:57,111 --> 00:37:57,610 to Ken. 651 00:38:00,410 --> 00:38:05,820 We are back in 1995. 652 00:38:05,820 --> 00:38:10,630 It is April 19, 1995. 653 00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:14,220 We just went through the tenth anniversary 654 00:38:14,220 --> 00:38:16,980 of a really horrible thing in US history. 655 00:38:16,980 --> 00:38:19,880 Does anybody know what it is, almost exactly ten years ago? 656 00:38:23,950 --> 00:38:24,830 No. 657 00:38:24,830 --> 00:38:34,580 The bombing of the courthouse in Oklahoma City, April 19, 1995. 658 00:38:34,580 --> 00:38:36,530 I guess you guys remember that. 659 00:38:39,220 --> 00:38:42,640 About a week later appears on AOL 660 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:50,220 an announcement that says hey, naughty Oklahoma t-shirts, 661 00:38:50,220 --> 00:38:55,970 visit Oklahoma, it's a blast and lots 662 00:38:55,970 --> 00:38:58,240 of cruder things about referring to the kids who 663 00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:01,330 had been killed in that bombing and all sorts of stuff. 664 00:39:01,330 --> 00:39:07,260 Visit Oklahoma, it's a blast, call Ken for naughty Oklahoma 665 00:39:07,260 --> 00:39:08,360 t-shirts. 666 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,170 And there in the message is the phone number 667 00:39:11,170 --> 00:39:18,310 of Ken Zeran who is just a guy who lives in Seattle. 668 00:39:18,310 --> 00:39:20,380 Well, lots of people call Ken. 669 00:39:20,380 --> 00:39:23,860 They call him angry and upset with obscene phone calls, 670 00:39:23,860 --> 00:39:25,050 threatening phone calls. 671 00:39:29,837 --> 00:39:31,420 They tell him about this thing he did. 672 00:39:31,420 --> 00:39:33,560 How could you possibly do that, you bastard? 673 00:39:36,190 --> 00:39:42,070 So he calls AOL and says come on, I didn't put this up. 674 00:39:42,070 --> 00:39:44,490 It has this stuff that has got my name on it. 675 00:39:44,490 --> 00:39:47,240 Take it down and publish a retraction. 676 00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:48,400 Mr. 677 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,600 Zeran, we sort of have to look into this. 678 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,700 And you have to understand that we don't actually 679 00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:55,970 know who had this account because they are anonymous. 680 00:39:55,970 --> 00:39:59,520 And it is not our policy to publish retractions, 681 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:00,640 but we will sort of do it. 682 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,290 And maybe we will turn off the account and check into it. 683 00:40:04,290 --> 00:40:10,600 The next day more slogans. 684 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,840 Naughty Oklahoma, we have t-shirts, 685 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,120 we have bumper stickers. 686 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,050 Visit Oklahoma, it's a blast, call Ken. 687 00:40:20,050 --> 00:40:22,970 And, by the way, there is a real demand for these things 688 00:40:22,970 --> 00:40:25,620 so if you call and the line is busy make sure you call back. 689 00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:33,680 By April 30th Ken Zeran is getting an abusive phone call 690 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,015 every two minutes. 691 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:43,260 May 1st, KXRA, a local Oklahoma radio station 692 00:40:43,260 --> 00:40:47,140 says you know what is going on in Seattle? 693 00:40:47,140 --> 00:40:50,360 There is this guy who is publishing stuff selling 694 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,510 t-shirts making fun of our kids who died in the blast 695 00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:54,890 two weeks ago. 696 00:40:54,890 --> 00:40:56,431 His name is Ken Zeran. 697 00:40:56,431 --> 00:40:58,430 Why don't you tell him what you think about him? 698 00:40:58,430 --> 00:40:59,340 Here is phone number. 699 00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:00,173 Here is his address. 700 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,960 The police are guarding Zeran's house now. 701 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,090 Well, Zeran finally gets in touch with KXRA 702 00:41:13,090 --> 00:41:15,140 and they publish the announcement 703 00:41:15,140 --> 00:41:16,180 that it is a mistake. 704 00:41:16,180 --> 00:41:18,770 They broadcast a retraction of that. 705 00:41:18,770 --> 00:41:24,450 And by the end of May Zeran is down to only 15 706 00:41:24,450 --> 00:41:28,290 threatening phone calls a day. 707 00:41:28,290 --> 00:41:34,030 So over the next months he gets a lawyer and sues AOL. 708 00:41:34,030 --> 00:41:36,590 He says you guys are negligent. 709 00:41:36,590 --> 00:41:40,430 I called you about this thing, it was causing me harm, 710 00:41:40,430 --> 00:41:43,540 it was on your thing, you did not take action, 711 00:41:43,540 --> 00:41:46,040 it took a real long time for them to shut off these accounts 712 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,060 and you guys are guilty of negligence. 713 00:41:50,060 --> 00:41:57,750 And AOL's lawyers go hey, hey. 714 00:42:01,700 --> 00:42:05,360 Actually, the law hadn't been struck down by then. 715 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,750 Look at this provision that congress has passed into law. 716 00:42:08,750 --> 00:42:11,560 I don't care what you said we did. 717 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,030 We didn't provide that information. 718 00:42:13,030 --> 00:42:14,928 We have no liability for it. 719 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,720 And the court agrees with them. 720 00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:26,210 And it turns out, by the way, that when congress struck down 721 00:42:26,210 --> 00:42:29,370 the Communications Decency Act, they struck down that Display 722 00:42:29,370 --> 00:42:31,250 Provision. 723 00:42:31,250 --> 00:42:33,560 But there is nothing unconstitutional about that. 724 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,600 You can argue whether or not it is a good idea, 725 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,558 but there is nothing unconstitutional about it. 726 00:42:37,558 --> 00:42:39,440 This thing is still part of US law. 727 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:54,722 The lawsuit was actually at the beginning of '96. 728 00:42:54,722 --> 00:42:56,430 It sort of went through this whole thing. 729 00:42:56,430 --> 00:43:02,290 I think it was the beginning of 1996 730 00:43:02,290 --> 00:43:03,940 because there was a lot of arguing 731 00:43:03,940 --> 00:43:07,192 going back and forth with AOL between when it was done. 732 00:43:07,192 --> 00:43:08,150 It took several months. 733 00:43:10,690 --> 00:43:15,280 So AOL says I don't care if we are negligent, we are free. 734 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:16,930 It is not our problem. 735 00:43:16,930 --> 00:43:19,690 It gets worse. 736 00:43:19,690 --> 00:43:26,660 2001, Jane Doe, in an anonymous lawsuit, 737 00:43:26,660 --> 00:43:33,300 sues AOL on behalf of her teenage son, John Doe. 738 00:43:33,300 --> 00:43:34,360 It is anonymous. 739 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,840 They are protecting him because he is a minor. 740 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,390 And she is suing AOL. 741 00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:39,340 She lives in Florida. 742 00:43:39,340 --> 00:43:42,180 It turns out there was a guy named Richard Russell, who 743 00:43:42,180 --> 00:43:44,615 by that time was in prison, as you 744 00:43:44,615 --> 00:43:45,990 will see for obvious reasons, who 745 00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:56,930 advertised on AOL to find kids who would come to his house. 746 00:43:56,930 --> 00:44:00,310 And he filmed them in pornographic acts, 747 00:44:00,310 --> 00:44:04,560 including Jane Doe's son, John Doe. 748 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,870 And sold this stuff over the Internet on AOL. 749 00:44:09,910 --> 00:44:15,320 Jane Doe sues AOL, you guys are making 750 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,880 money from trafficking in child pornography, 751 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,290 in pornographic pictures of my son. 752 00:44:23,290 --> 00:44:26,830 Now we're talking child pornography. 753 00:44:26,830 --> 00:44:32,790 AOL says hey, hey, the Good Samaritan Provision, title 19, 754 00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:37,980 section 230, we are not liable. 755 00:44:37,980 --> 00:44:40,330 This is 2001. 756 00:44:40,330 --> 00:44:42,960 This bounced around in the courts for about three years 757 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,400 and finally went to the Florida Supreme Court. 758 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:50,600 And the Florida Supreme Court agreed with AOL. 759 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,130 It ain't the greatest thing, but that is what the law says, 760 00:44:54,130 --> 00:44:58,220 you are not liable as an ISP if you are not 761 00:44:58,220 --> 00:45:00,180 the provider of that information. 762 00:45:00,180 --> 00:45:05,250 That is a two to one decision in the Florida Supreme Court. 763 00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:09,810 The minority opinion by Judge Lewis, the guy just went ape. 764 00:45:09,810 --> 00:45:13,080 He said this is nuts. 765 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:18,140 How could it conceivably have been the intent of congress, 766 00:45:18,140 --> 00:45:23,860 in a law that was motivated by protecting kids 767 00:45:23,860 --> 00:45:28,490 from pornography on the Internet, 768 00:45:28,490 --> 00:45:30,900 that a consequence of that law is now 769 00:45:30,900 --> 00:45:33,620 that somebody who is trafficking in child pornography 770 00:45:33,620 --> 00:45:34,595 is actually immunized? 771 00:45:37,870 --> 00:45:41,749 But that is the current state of the world. 772 00:45:41,749 --> 00:45:43,040 And you see what it comes from. 773 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,140 It comes from looking at this very complex system 774 00:45:46,140 --> 00:45:49,220 of regulations and the interaction between First 775 00:45:49,220 --> 00:45:53,910 Amendment Law and defamation law and the fact 776 00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:56,770 that you can apply regulations. 777 00:45:56,770 --> 00:45:59,400 You want to partly immunize those ISPs, 778 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,970 but you don't want to let them off free. 779 00:46:02,970 --> 00:46:06,490 And you end up with exactly the same kinds 780 00:46:06,490 --> 00:46:11,710 of unintended consequences that happen whenever you 781 00:46:11,710 --> 00:46:13,120 monkey with any complex system. 782 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,520 It is not a whole lot different from the kind of stuff 783 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,200 you have seen on the technology side 784 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,241 when you are talking about how the technical base 785 00:46:19,241 --> 00:46:21,664 of the Internet works. 786 00:46:21,664 --> 00:46:22,830 So where does that leave us? 787 00:46:22,830 --> 00:46:28,450 Well, I guess in terms of the law, 788 00:46:28,450 --> 00:46:35,610 it kind of leaves us there in a very, very confused state. 789 00:46:35,610 --> 00:46:37,560 And getting more and more confused 790 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,660 because what has happened recently, 791 00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:41,880 this whole thing is now mixed in international law. 792 00:46:44,730 --> 00:46:52,030 If you go search on Google for stuff 793 00:46:52,030 --> 00:46:54,730 from the Taiwan Ministry of Defense 794 00:46:54,730 --> 00:46:56,760 you will find that in the US. 795 00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,340 Will you find it in China? 796 00:46:58,340 --> 00:46:59,370 No. 797 00:46:59,370 --> 00:47:01,100 Google China has a different search. 798 00:47:01,100 --> 00:47:03,230 Will you find it if you somehow are 799 00:47:03,230 --> 00:47:09,080 able to log into US Google from Beijing? 800 00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:10,170 Yeah, you would see it. 801 00:47:10,170 --> 00:47:11,530 What kind of liability is there? 802 00:47:11,530 --> 00:47:13,780 You're personal liability with the Chinese government, 803 00:47:13,780 --> 00:47:16,200 is it Google who is going to get hammered in their trade 804 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:17,960 agreements in terms of China? 805 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:18,580 We don't know. 806 00:47:18,580 --> 00:47:20,496 What is going to happen with France and Yahoo? 807 00:47:23,070 --> 00:47:27,000 This whole picture has become even much, much 808 00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,490 more complex as a consequence of all of us engineers making 809 00:47:31,490 --> 00:47:34,360 this Internet which has effectively 810 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:35,900 made distance vanish. 811 00:47:39,404 --> 00:47:40,570 So where does that leave us? 812 00:47:40,570 --> 00:47:46,750 It leaves us with you, I guess, and where I started. 813 00:47:46,750 --> 00:47:49,970 You guys have enormous power that 814 00:47:49,970 --> 00:47:53,250 comes from the stuff you have learned in this course. 815 00:47:53,250 --> 00:47:58,030 You have the ability to go out and really, really 816 00:47:58,030 --> 00:48:01,840 influence the world by making stuff, 817 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:07,830 by explaining to people stuff they don't know, 818 00:48:07,830 --> 00:48:11,000 like the end-to-end principal is one. 819 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,480 And it is really a question of would you 820 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,750 like to grab that power and take advantage of it? 821 00:48:17,750 --> 00:48:19,330 But, in order to do that, you need 822 00:48:19,330 --> 00:48:21,720 to understand this other piece of the world. 823 00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:22,220 OK. 824 00:48:22,220 --> 00:48:23,950 Thank you.