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ALEXIS BATEMAN: All right.

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So today we're going to do
multi-stakeholder engagement.

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This is a little bit
different than what

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we've been talking
about, as opposed

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to assessing the impacts
of the supply chain

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and looking at where
environmental savings can

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be made.

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It's who can collaborate
to make those changes.

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When a company is trying to
integrate different programs

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within their supply
chain, often they

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can't do it their
own because they're

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working with supply
chain tiers deep--

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further than tier one,
tier two, tier three.

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So they need some different
eyes and different expertise

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that can support their
additional effort.

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Palm oil is a really
excellent case of this

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because it's really deep in
a lot of different companies'

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supply chains.

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It's usually a very small
component of a product

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that they might sell, like in
the case of Nestle's Kit Kat.

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So who, before reading this case
knew about the palm oil issue?

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What do you know about
it, that it was--

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AUDIENCE: Not the best choice.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: Not
the best choice, OK.

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Did you know about the
environmental impact of it,

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or more just that it
was a bad ingredient?

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AUDIENCE: Bad ingredient--

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: Ingredient, OK.

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AUDIENCE: Nothing specific.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: Anybody
else have-- yeah,

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what did you know about it?

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AUDIENCE: I knew somewhat
about the environmental impact,

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00:01:40,982 --> 00:01:43,090
but yeah, not--

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: Just knowledge
that it was not very good.

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AUDIENCE: Doing research
for the CDP project,

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they talked about the RSPO.

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That's one of the things
they-- my company highlighted

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in their CSR, it's like,
we are 100% certified palm

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oil or whatever, and I was like,
what is certified palm oil?

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: Did
that cause you to look

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into it a little bit more?

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AUDIENCE: Yeah.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: Yeah.

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So palm oil is a perfect
example of a material that

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has a lot of
different stakeholders

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that are being affected by
the growing of palm oil,

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by who's sourcing it, and the
supply chain that's in between.

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They have the growers,
they have the mill

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that they process it
in, then they also

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have a lot of middleman.

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So that is where the
supply chain, because it's

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a commodity, a lot of
times the supply chains

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are very non-clear,
not transparent.

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So they're not
able to see what's

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happening deep in their supply
chains, the actual practices.

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Did everyone watching
the Nestle video?

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Because I feel like that was the
linchpin of this whole story,

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where-- did everyone see it?

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You guys all saw it?

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Yeah, so that's
kind of where it all

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began, where
Greenpeace decided--

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they had been actually
looking at the palm oil

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issue for quite a
while before they

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actually when after Nestle.

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And that was a
big turning point,

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when they decided that they
needed to go after the brand.

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And that's commonly what
we've found in our research,

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is that going after the brand
is the more effective strategy

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than actually going into
the deep tier supplier.

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Because it gets
the publicity, it

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gets consumers pushing
the hand of the brand,

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and then the brand actually
looks into their supply chain.

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So what I thought
we would do today,

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I was originally going to break
you up into bigger groups,

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but since we have-- well,
that's pretty good attendance,

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but what I think I'll do is
match you up in groups of three

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and you can talk about
the plan that you created.

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Everyone had the assignment of
acting as a consultant for GAR,

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for Golden Aggregate Resources.

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And I want to see what the
differences were in your plans

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and come to an understanding
of what you guys thought.

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And then we can go
through the questions

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together and see how
you guys went about it.

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So why don't we--
you guys, three,

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why don't we do
threes right here,

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and then three right here,
you guys both triangular,

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three right here, and then
you two, and then back there,

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and then three in the back.

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So we'll spend about 15 minutes,
and you guys just get your plan

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00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,910
and talk about the
differences you saw.

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And then I'll be spot calling
on answering questions

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00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,425
and your group will have to
answer on how you look at it.

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00:04:14,070 --> 00:04:17,358
So were you guys' strategies
very similar or different?

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AUDIENCE: Completely different.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN:
Completely different.

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In what way?

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00:04:20,632 --> 00:04:23,913
AUDIENCE: I said we go with the
complete Greenpeace approach

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00:04:23,913 --> 00:04:26,210
and point fingers
at anyone who's not,

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00:04:26,210 --> 00:04:29,364
and run our marketing
campaign that way.

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And then Matt took the
completely different approach

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that we should put Greenpeace
as an irrelevant outsider

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and not let the outsiders
run the industry, etc.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: So what
was-- why would you

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look at it that way?

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AUDIENCE: Just so that if,
particularly from the marketing

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standpoint I wrote
about, from regulation,

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so regulation is going
to be an unknown.

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00:04:52,780 --> 00:04:57,380
And you want to establish,
since the RSPO is the industry

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and that represents the
self regulating body,

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if you can establish
yourself as self regulating,

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then you increase the
chances that you will not

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require external help.

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00:05:08,210 --> 00:05:09,970
So hopefully the
Indonesian government

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would play a hands
off role if they

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thought you were
taking care of things,

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and then you can be the
master of your own destiny.

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And then from an
investor's side,

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so that it doesn't look like
you're getting pushed around

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00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,720
and responding in a
reactionary way to everything

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that any external organization
says so that there's

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some confidence
for the investors

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that you're not going
to change your business

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strategy the next time someone
else comes around and says,

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00:05:34,460 --> 00:05:35,690
we think you should do this.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: Sure.

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So we have the
pro-Greenpeace, and then we

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had the non-Greenpeace.

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Any hybrid perspectives?

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All right, we'll get another
team that haven't spoken.

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AUDIENCE: Yeah, I think I might
have missed a couple of things

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00:05:47,630 --> 00:05:50,510
in that case study, but I really
took a market driven approach

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00:05:50,510 --> 00:05:54,580
to take some of these standards,
organizations they belong to

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00:05:54,580 --> 00:05:58,610
and set those as the low bar
and offer an even higher premium

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00:05:58,610 --> 00:06:01,560
product that meets the
Greenpeace requirements

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00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,880
and allow the market to
decide the best [INAUDIBLE].

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And use that additional
revenue to drive change down

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to the farmer and
government level.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: OK, so we've got
three different perspectives.

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So why don't we diagram out
who everyone's involved,

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and we can see what
everyone else was

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thinking on who was involved.

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Who are all the
stakeholders in this issue?

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AUDIENCE: GAR.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: GAR, so we've
got, they're at the center,

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the supplier of palm oil.

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AUDIENCE: Rural communities?

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AUDIENCE: Customers,
the direct customers.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN:
Sure, there are--

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so there's several customers.

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AUDIENCE: I mean the
major corporations.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: Major
corporations, the Nestles

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and Unilevers and such.

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AUDIENCE: Yeah, I
guess that would

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be the [INAUDIBLE] brands.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: So
they're out here.

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They're a little bit separated.

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00:06:53,610 --> 00:06:54,356
Who else?

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AUDIENCE: The farmers.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: We've
got the farmers.

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So they're in between
GAR and the corporation.

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AUDIENCE: Indonesian government.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN:
Indonesian government.

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00:07:09,750 --> 00:07:10,750
Where would we put them?

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00:07:10,750 --> 00:07:14,520
They're kind of
out in left field.

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Oh, we're going to test
my spelling skills.

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AUDIENCE: Don't we
see the processing

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00:07:26,970 --> 00:07:29,132
mills are an intermediary?

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: Yeah, so there's
the mills and processing.

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00:07:41,626 --> 00:07:43,108
AUDIENCE: The certifying bodies.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN:
Certifying bodies, yeah.

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AUDIENCE: I would say
above the corporations

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you have the consumers.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: Oh, yeah.

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Anybody else?

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AUDIENCE: Environmental
ag agencies.

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00:08:13,230 --> 00:08:13,660
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Sure.

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Where should we put them?

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They're kind of--

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AUDIENCE: There's the
environmental engineer type

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00:08:18,230 --> 00:08:19,896
people, and then
there's just people

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who care about the environment.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: That's true.

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00:08:26,230 --> 00:08:28,730
AUDIENCE: And investors.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN:
Investors, absolutely.

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00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,770
So they are kind of in between.

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And we have green customers.

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So you have anyone else?

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00:08:54,384 --> 00:08:55,550
AUDIENCE: Local communities.

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00:08:55,550 --> 00:08:57,466
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Local
communities, absolutely.

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00:08:57,466 --> 00:08:59,650
So they're down here
with the farmers.

198
00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,927
What about the people who
are impacted by the burning?

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00:09:10,927 --> 00:09:12,260
So it is actually the community.

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00:09:12,260 --> 00:09:13,840
Well, that would be also
local communities, but also

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00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:14,923
international communities.

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00:09:14,923 --> 00:09:17,884
I actually lived in Singapore
when they had the burnings,

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00:09:17,884 --> 00:09:19,050
and there was actually haze.

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00:09:19,050 --> 00:09:21,062
I was outside playing
soccer and coughed up

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00:09:21,062 --> 00:09:22,520
a lung because you
could actually--

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00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,110
the haze was so thick.

207
00:09:25,110 --> 00:09:26,282
It's not a fake thing.

208
00:09:26,282 --> 00:09:27,740
We've got international
communities

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00:09:27,740 --> 00:09:31,455
as well that were impacted
by slash-and-burn practices.

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00:09:39,095 --> 00:09:42,530
So you have all
these stakeholders

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00:09:42,530 --> 00:09:45,150
and GAR is trying to
figure out their strategy.

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00:09:45,150 --> 00:09:47,670
So you think about who
Greenpeace went to.

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00:09:47,670 --> 00:09:50,250
They went directly
to the corporation

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00:09:50,250 --> 00:09:52,550
and attacked their strategy
and what they were doing,

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00:09:52,550 --> 00:09:54,466
their actual material
that they were sourcing.

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00:09:54,466 --> 00:09:56,220
But then that got
translated back

217
00:09:56,220 --> 00:09:59,942
to the actual company that
was dealing with the palm oil.

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00:09:59,942 --> 00:10:01,650
And then they had to
go through all these

219
00:10:01,650 --> 00:10:04,940
different-- so did everyone
think about these as they were

220
00:10:04,940 --> 00:10:07,860
going through their strategy?

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00:10:07,860 --> 00:10:08,760
Yes?

222
00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:09,460
Sort of?

223
00:10:09,460 --> 00:10:09,960
Not really?

224
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,590
No, you guys seem to
decide fairly quickly.

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00:10:11,590 --> 00:10:12,100
Anyone else?

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00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:14,370
Did anyone else not
account for one of these

227
00:10:14,370 --> 00:10:16,780
and might think differently,
think about some

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00:10:16,780 --> 00:10:21,181
of these other
external stakeholders?

229
00:10:21,181 --> 00:10:21,680
No?

230
00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:22,140
All right.

231
00:10:22,140 --> 00:10:23,620
So everyone thought
about everyone.

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00:10:23,620 --> 00:10:24,080
Everyone's good.

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00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:24,830
AUDIENCE: I forgot
about the mills.

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ALEXIS BATEMAN: The mills?

235
00:10:25,656 --> 00:10:26,156
Yeah.

236
00:10:26,156 --> 00:10:27,128
The mills and press.

237
00:10:27,128 --> 00:10:29,128
AUDIENCE: I was thinking
about the other growers

238
00:10:29,128 --> 00:10:31,856
and other competitors
who are joining the ISPO

239
00:10:31,856 --> 00:10:33,784
and who might also [INAUDIBLE].

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00:10:33,784 --> 00:10:35,950
ALEXIS BATEMAN: The other--
I'm sorry, say it again.

241
00:10:35,950 --> 00:10:36,780
AUDIENCE: Other growers
and competitors.

242
00:10:36,780 --> 00:10:37,780
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Oh, yes.

243
00:10:37,780 --> 00:10:39,637
The other companies
that are-- so there

244
00:10:39,637 --> 00:10:43,710
are also the other
palm oil companies.

245
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:49,460
So they're also
kind of in between.

246
00:10:49,460 --> 00:10:51,270
No, they'd probably
be over here.

247
00:10:51,270 --> 00:10:53,416
You get the picture.

248
00:10:53,416 --> 00:10:55,290
Anyone want to talk
about their strategy that

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00:10:55,290 --> 00:10:57,600
are different from these
three, that they thought--

250
00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,140
the marketing strategy?

251
00:10:59,140 --> 00:11:01,350
Let's start with
the first question

252
00:11:01,350 --> 00:11:03,950
in terms of how you're going
to market your palm oil.

253
00:11:03,950 --> 00:11:07,870
Given the strategy they have
now, how would you go about it?

254
00:11:07,870 --> 00:11:10,360
AUDIENCE: We thought--
we agreed that we'd

255
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,900
be more vocal about
publishing the fact

256
00:11:13,900 --> 00:11:16,000
that we were trying
to take a leadership

257
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,010
role in sustainability.

258
00:11:17,010 --> 00:11:20,060
So one of those
things might include

259
00:11:20,060 --> 00:11:21,980
having an annual
sustainability report

260
00:11:21,980 --> 00:11:23,405
or something along those lines.

261
00:11:23,405 --> 00:11:25,780
And then we talked
about continuing

262
00:11:25,780 --> 00:11:31,230
to work with Greenpeace to
maybe even set increasingly,

263
00:11:31,230 --> 00:11:34,357
slightly, higher standards
or goals for ourselves.

264
00:11:34,357 --> 00:11:36,542
And then again, just
talking about those goals

265
00:11:36,542 --> 00:11:39,390
and putting those out
there so that it gave us

266
00:11:39,390 --> 00:11:41,590
additional credibility
in the market

267
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:45,707
as a leader in that front.

268
00:11:45,707 --> 00:11:47,790
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So I don't
know if you guys caught

269
00:11:47,790 --> 00:11:49,970
the difference between
Greenpeace and the Forest

270
00:11:49,970 --> 00:11:50,610
Trust.

271
00:11:50,610 --> 00:11:52,310
Did you guys catch
any subtle difference

272
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:54,262
of how each of those NGOs work?

273
00:11:54,262 --> 00:11:56,220
AUDIENCE: The Forest
Trust kind of-- Greenpeace

274
00:11:56,220 --> 00:11:58,110
was more on the
attack, it looked like.

275
00:11:58,110 --> 00:12:01,241
And then the Forest Trust
was more of an interview.

276
00:12:01,241 --> 00:12:03,740
You're like, OK, we'll work
with you to try to get what they

277
00:12:03,740 --> 00:12:06,570
want, but-- they were
kind of the trusting--

278
00:12:06,570 --> 00:12:09,020
AUDIENCE: They were like
the technical experts.

279
00:12:09,020 --> 00:12:11,804
So they'd measure trees
and thinks like that.

280
00:12:11,804 --> 00:12:14,437
They'd know the carbon
content of the peat soil.

281
00:12:14,437 --> 00:12:16,770
Whereas Greenpeace was just
like, you're not doing right

282
00:12:16,770 --> 00:12:17,895
and we're going to get you.

283
00:12:17,895 --> 00:12:20,019
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So they're
kind of the voice behind

284
00:12:20,019 --> 00:12:21,479
to get the medial attention.

285
00:12:21,479 --> 00:12:23,020
So maybe the Forest
Trust would maybe

286
00:12:23,020 --> 00:12:25,470
be the more strategic
collaborator

287
00:12:25,470 --> 00:12:27,312
if they were going
to have an NGO that

288
00:12:27,312 --> 00:12:29,430
was pushing their standards.

289
00:12:29,430 --> 00:12:31,390
Anyone else have
different-- so you thought

290
00:12:31,390 --> 00:12:33,550
about a sustainability
report and then

291
00:12:33,550 --> 00:12:35,550
working with an environmental
NGO to push goals.

292
00:12:35,550 --> 00:12:39,580
To push, to keep them,
to push their goals.

293
00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:47,540
AUDIENCE: As well as trying to
become a leader with the RSPO,

294
00:12:47,540 --> 00:12:50,630
maybe backing away from
the NGOs and trying

295
00:12:50,630 --> 00:12:52,200
to embark on the
global standard,

296
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,630
to bring it up to
the level you're at

297
00:12:54,630 --> 00:12:57,130
and then use your influence
with the government

298
00:12:57,130 --> 00:13:03,492
and with the organizations,
you can set the standard

299
00:13:03,492 --> 00:13:04,630
to your advantage.

300
00:13:04,630 --> 00:13:05,180
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So
why did you think

301
00:13:05,180 --> 00:13:07,980
that the RSPO might be the
way to go instead of doing it

302
00:13:07,980 --> 00:13:08,864
more individually?

303
00:13:08,864 --> 00:13:10,530
AUDIENCE: I thought
because people would

304
00:13:10,530 --> 00:13:11,613
be able to recognize that.

305
00:13:11,613 --> 00:13:15,790
People like standards, bodies,
they like things set better

306
00:13:15,790 --> 00:13:17,440
than just an
agreement worked out,

307
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,170
where one party can
back out any time.

308
00:13:20,170 --> 00:13:22,220
The RSPO, if it gets
big enough, it's

309
00:13:22,220 --> 00:13:25,451
kind of hard for people to back
out and everything, and for it

310
00:13:25,451 --> 00:13:25,950
to change.

311
00:13:25,950 --> 00:13:32,922
So I think that the ordinary
consumer would see RSPO,

312
00:13:32,922 --> 00:13:34,380
they've seen that
enough, they know

313
00:13:34,380 --> 00:13:35,754
that when they're
just like, ours

314
00:13:35,754 --> 00:13:38,280
is Greenpeace approved, well,
what does that exactly mean?

315
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,280
That might be different
for every company.

316
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:41,946
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So,
some standardization

317
00:13:41,946 --> 00:13:44,490
in the industry.

318
00:13:44,490 --> 00:13:48,090
Did anyone think about the
Indonesian standard as the way

319
00:13:48,090 --> 00:13:51,990
to go, in terms of who
they thought the local way?

320
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:52,490
No?

321
00:13:52,490 --> 00:13:54,840
No one thought about that.

322
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,609
And why didn't you guys think
that that was the way to go?

323
00:13:58,609 --> 00:13:59,650
AUDIENCE: Not a standard.

324
00:13:59,650 --> 00:14:00,941
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Not a standard.

325
00:14:00,941 --> 00:14:03,550
But the two differences--
did you guys look at the fact

326
00:14:03,550 --> 00:14:05,640
that one was voluntary and
then one was mandatory?

327
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,080
Did that play into your
decision factor at all?

328
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,824
AUDIENCE: Yeah, we all
talked about-- i mean,

329
00:14:11,824 --> 00:14:17,170
not like the marketing
fluff strategies,

330
00:14:17,170 --> 00:14:19,010
but the bigger issue
bringing the product

331
00:14:19,010 --> 00:14:23,900
to market being that only
10% of palm oil is certified,

332
00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:28,660
and of that, a very small margin
is actually sold at a premium.

333
00:14:28,660 --> 00:14:33,346
So the real issue is getting
out of the niche market

334
00:14:33,346 --> 00:14:36,690
and making it more of
a tradeable commodity.

335
00:14:36,690 --> 00:14:43,185
And to do that, GAR
already complies

336
00:14:43,185 --> 00:14:45,199
by default with
the ISPO standards,

337
00:14:45,199 --> 00:14:49,160
just because there are
global laws and regulations.

338
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:55,740
And then, obviously, the
RSPO is more voluntary.

339
00:14:55,740 --> 00:15:00,800
So I think if they work with the
government more as law and not

340
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,960
as much marketing, it would
help the whole industry bring

341
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:10,120
more certified product to market
and raise their profitability.

342
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,810
And then the RSPO
could be like-- I

343
00:15:13,810 --> 00:15:17,395
used the example of the LEED
building rating system, where

344
00:15:17,395 --> 00:15:19,270
it's this voluntary
thing that you can add on

345
00:15:19,270 --> 00:15:21,330
to increase the marketability.

346
00:15:21,330 --> 00:15:24,735
So it would be like
a two tiered system.

347
00:15:24,735 --> 00:15:27,751
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So the
standard and the marketing.

348
00:15:27,751 --> 00:15:28,250
Got it.

349
00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:31,040
So you touch on the
fact that there's

350
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,890
a price premium
that may or may not

351
00:15:32,890 --> 00:15:34,460
be making it to the farmers.

352
00:15:34,460 --> 00:15:37,840
Do you guys see other issues
with making the sustainable

353
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,080
supply chain of palm oil,
what the challenges were

354
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,940
in translating what they RSPO
is doing into a sustainable palm

355
00:15:44,940 --> 00:15:47,430
oil supply chain?

356
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:51,326
AUDIENCE: For example, as we
were discussing in the group,

357
00:15:51,326 --> 00:15:56,757
[INAUDIBLE] and then
the RSPO accepts oil

358
00:15:56,757 --> 00:15:58,631
from certified and
non-certified plantations.

359
00:15:58,631 --> 00:16:05,370
So there are lots of blurry
points in the supply chain

360
00:16:05,370 --> 00:16:07,820
that will make it
difficult to assess

361
00:16:07,820 --> 00:16:11,740
if it's really sustainable,
and to what extent.

362
00:16:11,740 --> 00:16:13,894
ALEXIS BATEMAN: All right,
so a major challenge

363
00:16:13,894 --> 00:16:15,810
would be the transparency,
so you can't really

364
00:16:15,810 --> 00:16:18,700
see where what sources
are coming in where.

365
00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:20,830
So even if Unilever
decides that they

366
00:16:20,830 --> 00:16:23,431
want to source 100%
RSPO certified palm oil,

367
00:16:23,431 --> 00:16:24,930
doesn't necessarily
mean that that's

368
00:16:24,930 --> 00:16:25,680
all they're going to get.

369
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,304
They're going to pay for it, but
that might not be the palm oil

370
00:16:28,304 --> 00:16:29,730
that they actually receive.

371
00:16:29,730 --> 00:16:31,800
Any the other
challenges you guys

372
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:37,680
see in this in terms of maybe
the RSPO as an intermediary

373
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,590
in the funding having to be
paid for-- farmers having

374
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:42,620
to pay for it?

375
00:16:42,620 --> 00:16:45,475
Did you guys think
about that aspect?

376
00:16:45,475 --> 00:16:48,522
AUDIENCE: Well, one of the
things that the ISPO addressed

377
00:16:48,522 --> 00:16:51,020
was that the small and medium
sized farmers couldn't afford

378
00:16:51,020 --> 00:16:52,542
the certification process.

379
00:16:52,542 --> 00:16:55,916
So you have to address
that if you wanted

380
00:16:55,916 --> 00:16:58,326
to take on certification.

381
00:17:02,664 --> 00:17:04,339
AUDIENCE: It also
seemed like there

382
00:17:04,339 --> 00:17:05,900
was a great amount
of uncertainty

383
00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:08,290
as to the actual cost.

384
00:17:08,290 --> 00:17:14,829
Some studies cited
Indian investors

385
00:17:14,829 --> 00:17:18,382
buying stock in certified
companies because the fact

386
00:17:18,382 --> 00:17:24,470
that they were certified reduced
projected risk and processing

387
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:25,737
disturbances.

388
00:17:25,737 --> 00:17:29,530
They calculated that
the cost of certifying

389
00:17:29,530 --> 00:17:33,760
would be mitigated
by or accounted

390
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,944
for by one day of a mill being
shut down due to global unrest.

391
00:17:38,944 --> 00:17:41,750
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So major
impacts to the smaller--

392
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:46,116
AUDIENCE: So there needs to be
some more industry collected

393
00:17:46,116 --> 00:17:49,470
data if we can agree on it.

394
00:17:49,470 --> 00:17:51,700
ALEXIS BATEMAN: More
information to make a decision.

395
00:17:59,620 --> 00:18:03,580
AUDIENCE: This is
sort of [INAUDIBLE],

396
00:18:03,580 --> 00:18:06,919
but if we take a look at the
sustainability on the supply

397
00:18:06,919 --> 00:18:09,270
chain at the larger scale,
they were saying in the case

398
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:12,930
that investors and
financial people

399
00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:18,534
were investing only in
plantations and in firms that

400
00:18:18,534 --> 00:18:20,187
had a sustainable supply chain.

401
00:18:20,187 --> 00:18:22,520
So I'm assuming that if they
don't have the transparency

402
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,330
to assess this, they
might just not fund

403
00:18:26,330 --> 00:18:29,380
companies to produce palm oil.

404
00:18:29,380 --> 00:18:31,920
At some point, there
might be issues

405
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,905
also in the supply chain
for its long term cost.

406
00:18:35,905 --> 00:18:36,780
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Sure.

407
00:18:36,780 --> 00:18:38,890
So it's more of a
short term perspective.

408
00:18:46,860 --> 00:18:50,510
So what else haven't
we covered in here?

409
00:18:56,950 --> 00:19:00,260
So we were talking about the
burden on the small farmer

410
00:19:00,260 --> 00:19:02,459
and their inability
to be certified,

411
00:19:02,459 --> 00:19:04,250
and maybe the changes
in the uprun of costs

412
00:19:04,250 --> 00:19:07,155
of certifying and changing
to sustainable practices.

413
00:19:07,155 --> 00:19:09,280
What do you guys think,
what do the different teams

414
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,990
think about what GAR should
do about that, in terms

415
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:14,130
of treating the small
farmers as opposed

416
00:19:14,130 --> 00:19:15,450
to their larger farmers?

417
00:19:19,850 --> 00:19:21,782
No one thought about
the small guys?

418
00:19:21,782 --> 00:19:23,240
AUDIENCE: I thought about them.

419
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,435
It's more you actually
struggle to figure out

420
00:19:26,435 --> 00:19:30,950
how it can be incentivized
not to use all their land.

421
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:33,825
So thinking of somehow
a way to place a premium

422
00:19:33,825 --> 00:19:39,381
on the product that is
harvested with less land

423
00:19:39,381 --> 00:19:46,952
and putting in a cap on
how much virgin forest

424
00:19:46,952 --> 00:19:49,410
they need to have in order to
be able to sell into the more

425
00:19:49,410 --> 00:19:50,999
premium market.

426
00:19:50,999 --> 00:19:51,832
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Cap.

427
00:19:55,830 --> 00:19:57,871
AUDIENCE: So one of the
things that we identified

428
00:19:57,871 --> 00:20:04,160
during our discussion was
that the Indonesian farmers

429
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,365
or production was
not very efficient,

430
00:20:06,365 --> 00:20:09,190
or they didn't have a
very high productivity.

431
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:13,928
So one way we identified to
increase production and please

432
00:20:13,928 --> 00:20:16,373
local government and
local authorities,

433
00:20:16,373 --> 00:20:19,510
but also the Indonesian
government in general

434
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:22,028
was to actually help the
small farmers increase

435
00:20:22,028 --> 00:20:23,020
their productivity.

436
00:20:23,020 --> 00:20:24,508
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Oh, sure.

437
00:20:24,508 --> 00:20:29,230
Be sort of an Intermediary
to get them to that place

438
00:20:29,230 --> 00:20:30,270
so they could afford it.

439
00:20:36,162 --> 00:20:38,617
AUDIENCE: I also found a
case that mentioned something

440
00:20:38,617 --> 00:20:42,000
about bans and
third party audits.

441
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:47,590
So that's a very-- imposing
that relations on the farmer,

442
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:51,295
I think it should motivate
them to be more sustainable.

443
00:20:51,295 --> 00:20:56,310
Instead of using that many
fees and scaring them away,

444
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:58,320
incentivize them
to use sustainable

445
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:03,856
practices and pay them or use
financial incentives to be--

446
00:21:03,856 --> 00:21:05,356
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So
carrot and stick.

447
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,220
Did you guys think the
RSPO is more like a stick

448
00:21:14,220 --> 00:21:16,700
because it's a costs burden?

449
00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:20,590
Or how did you see the
RSPO certification?

450
00:21:20,590 --> 00:21:22,346
AUDIENCE: More as
the carrot, I think.

451
00:21:22,346 --> 00:21:24,019
Because it gives
them the incentive

452
00:21:24,019 --> 00:21:26,005
whereas the ISPO
would be the stick.

453
00:21:26,005 --> 00:21:27,130
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Sure, yeah.

454
00:21:27,130 --> 00:21:28,500
Everyone agree with that?

455
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:33,052
Yeah, I think sort of the--
kind of see the difference.

456
00:21:38,290 --> 00:21:42,370
So what about
communication strategy?

457
00:21:42,370 --> 00:21:44,190
We talked about
marketing, but then you

458
00:21:44,190 --> 00:21:46,350
have all these stakeholders
that you're then

459
00:21:46,350 --> 00:21:49,110
going to start deciding
what you're going to do.

460
00:21:49,110 --> 00:21:52,240
So there's a-- we
thought about a report.

461
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,374
Sometimes I sit all
day in my office

462
00:21:54,374 --> 00:21:55,790
and I read
sustainability reports,

463
00:21:55,790 --> 00:21:57,748
and I think I'm the only
person who reads that.

464
00:21:57,748 --> 00:21:59,680
So what other
strategies do you think

465
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,010
that GAR can do to
get down to each

466
00:22:03,010 --> 00:22:06,120
of these stakeholders in terms
of translating what they're

467
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:07,814
doing?

468
00:22:07,814 --> 00:22:09,480
AUDIENCE: We talked
about Justin Bieber,

469
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,950
but then we were actually
talking about famous soccer

470
00:22:11,950 --> 00:22:12,450
players.

471
00:22:12,450 --> 00:22:14,116
ALEXIS BATEMAN: I
wondered what you guys

472
00:22:14,116 --> 00:22:15,816
were talking about over here.

473
00:22:15,816 --> 00:22:18,670
Justin Bieber.

474
00:22:18,670 --> 00:22:20,470
AUDIENCE: We just
used somebody that

475
00:22:20,470 --> 00:22:24,820
is-- that all these guys can--
all these stakeholders can

476
00:22:24,820 --> 00:22:27,700
relate to or see or know of.

477
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:28,660
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Sure.

478
00:22:28,660 --> 00:22:36,840
So maybe some sort of celebrity
advocating for sustainable

479
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,536
palm oil.

480
00:22:38,536 --> 00:22:40,360
AUDIENCE: Or
sustainability, yeah.

481
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,901
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Sustainability
in general or sustainable palm

482
00:22:42,901 --> 00:22:43,790
oil?

483
00:22:43,790 --> 00:22:44,839
AUDIENCE: Palm oil.

484
00:22:44,839 --> 00:22:46,380
ALEXIS BATEMAN:
Well, it's different.

485
00:22:46,380 --> 00:22:48,630
AUDIENCE: I think in general,
it's going to be easier.

486
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:52,239
Otherwise, palm oil is such
a low-level ingredient that

487
00:22:52,239 --> 00:22:56,183
soccer players [INAUDIBLE] it.

488
00:22:56,183 --> 00:22:58,155
AUDIENCE: We were
mentioning in this group

489
00:22:58,155 --> 00:23:01,852
that the education of the
farmers and the trainees, that

490
00:23:01,852 --> 00:23:06,043
can also be a long term
return for the [INAUDIBLE]

491
00:23:06,043 --> 00:23:09,987
of the population is
education in sustainable ways

492
00:23:09,987 --> 00:23:13,684
to cultivate, and
also get in line

493
00:23:13,684 --> 00:23:17,382
with the ENGO and the
certifying bodies,

494
00:23:17,382 --> 00:23:19,880
medical communities, and
pretty much everybody.

495
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:20,850
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Sure.

496
00:23:20,850 --> 00:23:23,600
So one challenge that's here is
there's usually an upfront cost

497
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,440
for the company.

498
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,560
What would be your argument
for, if you guys can chime in,

499
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,360
what would be the
argument for that,

500
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:31,534
that this would be a valid--

501
00:23:31,534 --> 00:23:33,158
AUDIENCE: I think
also a better return.

502
00:23:33,158 --> 00:23:38,048
There is an upfront cost,
but if the farmers are

503
00:23:38,048 --> 00:23:42,952
able to have better production
and better education,

504
00:23:42,952 --> 00:23:46,896
then there might be also, first,
the better return in the end,

505
00:23:46,896 --> 00:23:48,868
and then a better
relationship with them.

506
00:23:48,868 --> 00:23:51,333
And they can also
be more cooperative.

507
00:23:51,333 --> 00:23:54,784
And it can also ground for
the long term [INAUDIBLE]

508
00:23:54,784 --> 00:23:59,277
in Indonesia and in
this part of the world.

509
00:23:59,277 --> 00:24:00,735
AUDIENCE: Yeah, I
think that's key,

510
00:24:00,735 --> 00:24:03,070
because they were
talking about how

511
00:24:03,070 --> 00:24:06,000
negotiating with the
local communities

512
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,960
was becoming more
and more part of what

513
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,620
they had to do before they could
establish their bigger farms.

514
00:24:10,620 --> 00:24:14,770
If they had a reputation
of maybe providing

515
00:24:14,770 --> 00:24:17,040
educational services
or equipment

516
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,890
training to local
communities, they

517
00:24:19,890 --> 00:24:24,544
could potentially acquire more
land and do more business.

518
00:24:24,544 --> 00:24:26,502
AUDIENCE: A lot of these
NGOs have deep pockets

519
00:24:26,502 --> 00:24:29,108
and far reaches, so if
you can partner with them,

520
00:24:29,108 --> 00:24:31,809
they would probably participate
in an education and training

521
00:24:31,809 --> 00:24:34,264
program where wouldn't have
to shoulder all of the cost.

522
00:24:34,264 --> 00:24:38,420
ALEXIS BATEMAN: NGO as a
source of collaboration.

523
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,250
Anybody else?

524
00:24:47,250 --> 00:24:50,510
how about when you're trying
to get to your investors?

525
00:24:50,510 --> 00:24:51,940
What do you think?

526
00:24:51,940 --> 00:24:52,650
An avenue that--

527
00:24:55,990 --> 00:25:00,090
AUDIENCE: Ford just puts
their sustainability strategy

528
00:25:00,090 --> 00:25:04,910
into their business strategy,
so they have all the information

529
00:25:04,910 --> 00:25:07,310
on their corporate
website, which is probably

530
00:25:07,310 --> 00:25:11,189
where current investors and
potential future investors

531
00:25:11,189 --> 00:25:14,980
are going to go to get
information about the company.

532
00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:19,880
And then I also said that Ford
has a specific sustainability

533
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:21,240
department.

534
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,296
So if you had the
resources and the manpower,

535
00:25:25,296 --> 00:25:26,670
that might be
something that they

536
00:25:26,670 --> 00:25:28,610
would want to look
at doing, just

537
00:25:28,610 --> 00:25:31,430
to help communicate the
fact that this is something

538
00:25:31,430 --> 00:25:34,479
that they think about.

539
00:25:34,479 --> 00:25:36,710
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So I'm
putting in the [INAUDIBLE].

540
00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:39,484
That's the Q&A source.

541
00:25:39,484 --> 00:25:41,420
AUDIENCE: I think
it's also not totally

542
00:25:41,420 --> 00:25:43,810
unprecedented for
governments to provide

543
00:25:43,810 --> 00:25:46,556
some kind of financial
incentives or tax breaks

544
00:25:46,556 --> 00:25:49,902
to companies that do good stuff.

545
00:25:49,902 --> 00:25:52,770
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Right.

546
00:25:52,770 --> 00:25:56,560
So GAR could probably get a lot
of different resources going

547
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,390
to different stakeholders,
going iterative feedback.

548
00:25:59,390 --> 00:26:02,136
They can see how
they can help them.

549
00:26:02,136 --> 00:26:02,870
I like that.

550
00:26:02,870 --> 00:26:03,370
All right.

551
00:26:06,487 --> 00:26:07,070
Went to sleep.

552
00:26:11,780 --> 00:26:14,700
So then let's think
about the bigger picture.

553
00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:17,020
So we've got all
these stakeholders

554
00:26:17,020 --> 00:26:19,915
to decide about a
marketing strategy, what

555
00:26:19,915 --> 00:26:23,602
are the angles of getting a
more sustainable supply chain,

556
00:26:23,602 --> 00:26:25,310
how we're going to
help the small farmers

557
00:26:25,310 --> 00:26:27,287
versus large farmers,
and then how we're

558
00:26:27,287 --> 00:26:28,370
going to communicate that.

559
00:26:28,370 --> 00:26:30,860
So what are the overall impacts?

560
00:26:30,860 --> 00:26:33,810
How is this going to
translate and impact

561
00:26:33,810 --> 00:26:36,190
in terms of whether
you're certifying,

562
00:26:36,190 --> 00:26:37,660
working with the local farmers?

563
00:26:37,660 --> 00:26:39,660
If you guys have
some kind of broad

564
00:26:39,660 --> 00:26:43,060
take takeaways from the case?

565
00:26:43,060 --> 00:26:45,481
AUDIENCE: Well, I thought
one of the major differences

566
00:26:45,481 --> 00:26:47,820
between what they're
doing now and what

567
00:26:47,820 --> 00:26:49,569
the current certification
bodies are doing

568
00:26:49,569 --> 00:26:51,337
is the deforestation issue.

569
00:26:51,337 --> 00:26:53,170
They have to make a
decision whether they're

570
00:26:53,170 --> 00:26:54,706
going to continue
that commitment

571
00:26:54,706 --> 00:26:58,108
and, I think, maybe add
a certification level

572
00:26:58,108 --> 00:27:01,996
on top of what's out there to
take credit for what they're

573
00:27:01,996 --> 00:27:04,580
doing for the
deforestation, or to lower

574
00:27:04,580 --> 00:27:07,100
their standards to
become more competitive

575
00:27:07,100 --> 00:27:09,475
with the other companies.

576
00:27:09,475 --> 00:27:10,900
And I think that
that's something

577
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:12,918
they're going to have
to make a decision on

578
00:27:12,918 --> 00:27:16,060
as far as what they're going
to go with as a company.

579
00:27:16,060 --> 00:27:19,684
And I don't know,
based on the data,

580
00:27:19,684 --> 00:27:24,290
that there is a need for
something of that high level

581
00:27:24,290 --> 00:27:27,170
unless you say you're going to
a market with the United States

582
00:27:27,170 --> 00:27:28,790
or that's maybe more niche.

583
00:27:28,790 --> 00:27:32,193
Because it shows that the sales
right now aren't in markets

584
00:27:32,193 --> 00:27:36,050
that really care about
the sustainability.

585
00:27:36,050 --> 00:27:37,730
They're more
cost-driven markets.

586
00:27:37,730 --> 00:27:39,640
So I think overall,
they need to look

587
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,430
at where they want to
take their company,

588
00:27:41,430 --> 00:27:43,320
if they wanted to the
niche sustainability

589
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,234
and maintain their
deforestation commitment

590
00:27:46,234 --> 00:27:47,900
or if they want to
lower their standards

591
00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:49,937
and become competitive
in the bigger markets.

592
00:27:49,937 --> 00:27:51,770
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Yeah,
perfect way to put it.

593
00:27:51,770 --> 00:27:55,530
What did anyone else think
about going higher or lower?

594
00:27:55,530 --> 00:27:57,860
AUDIENCE: I'd say the same
in encouraging innovation

595
00:27:57,860 --> 00:28:01,860
in industry, trying to find
other ways to grow the business

596
00:28:01,860 --> 00:28:04,160
without the deforestation.

597
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,960
That was the
default for a while,

598
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,700
but maybe there are other
ways to use their land

599
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:10,950
and that sort of thing,
change the way they're growing

600
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:11,908
and that sort of thing.

601
00:28:11,908 --> 00:28:15,348
I thought it might open up the
industry to some innovation

602
00:28:15,348 --> 00:28:17,535
if they stay as
one of the leaders.

603
00:28:17,535 --> 00:28:18,410
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Sure.

604
00:28:18,410 --> 00:28:21,540
Push the industry in support
of defaulting to the standard.

605
00:28:21,540 --> 00:28:24,030
Yeah, absolutely.

606
00:28:24,030 --> 00:28:24,764
hasn't spoken?

607
00:28:24,764 --> 00:28:25,976
You have some thoughts?

608
00:28:25,976 --> 00:28:29,870
AUDIENCE: Yeah, one thought I
have is that for [INAUDIBLE],

609
00:28:29,870 --> 00:28:31,842
the company seems
like it's passively

610
00:28:31,842 --> 00:28:34,800
responsible [INAUDIBLE] coming
from different directions.

611
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,237
So I think they should take
some more proactive actions

612
00:28:39,237 --> 00:28:40,716
to take leadership.

613
00:28:40,716 --> 00:28:45,153
Inviting multiple different
stakeholders [INAUDIBLE].

614
00:28:45,153 --> 00:28:47,660
Especially for the
Greenpeace, I think

615
00:28:47,660 --> 00:28:52,262
they should, instead
of just [INAUDIBLE]

616
00:28:52,262 --> 00:28:55,106
respond to the [INAUDIBLE],
they should try and work

617
00:28:55,106 --> 00:28:59,060
with Greenpeace,
set up common goals.

618
00:28:59,060 --> 00:29:02,525
Because the NGO [INAUDIBLE]
environmental issues,

619
00:29:02,525 --> 00:29:05,495
people tend to be more educated
in governmental targets.

620
00:29:05,495 --> 00:29:08,960
So if they are convinced that a
company is making great effort,

621
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,889
I'm sure I think they
are going to promote

622
00:29:10,889 --> 00:29:11,930
the brand of the company.

623
00:29:11,930 --> 00:29:18,870
So this will actually help to
boost [INAUDIBLE] corporations.

624
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:22,220
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Anyone else
have thoughts on implications

625
00:29:22,220 --> 00:29:25,570
of working with Greenpeace
and getting them on board

626
00:29:25,570 --> 00:29:27,857
with what they're doing?

627
00:29:27,857 --> 00:29:29,440
What's happening
there with Greenpeace

628
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,530
as sort of the pushing
the buttons organization?

629
00:29:34,530 --> 00:29:36,590
Kind of the same, everyone
saw the same thing.

630
00:29:36,590 --> 00:29:40,590
What about overall impacts,
other overall impacts

631
00:29:40,590 --> 00:29:41,470
of a new strategy?

632
00:29:46,446 --> 00:29:47,320
So, pretty confident?

633
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,840
So we're going to--
we're still stuck

634
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,500
between adopting a
higher-- anyone think

635
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:54,540
staying with a lower
standard is the way to go,

636
00:29:54,540 --> 00:29:57,370
that going with the
way the trend is

637
00:29:57,370 --> 00:29:59,630
and committing to the
lowest common denominator?

638
00:29:59,630 --> 00:30:03,046
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] other
than the Greenpeace association.

639
00:30:03,046 --> 00:30:05,486
I was very surprised
because Greenpeace

640
00:30:05,486 --> 00:30:08,250
is defined as a pure
ENGO, as opposed

641
00:30:08,250 --> 00:30:12,100
to ENGOs [INAUDIBLE],
for examples.

642
00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:16,470
So pure ENGOs are known to
be extremely pure in the line

643
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:19,265
that they preach
and not to associate

644
00:30:19,265 --> 00:30:23,920
themselves anyhow with
corporations because they're

645
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,222
not pure enough and they
have to [INAUDIBLE].

646
00:30:28,222 --> 00:30:31,825
And [INAUDIBLE] firms
like all the primary ENGOs

647
00:30:31,825 --> 00:30:34,300
are working hand in
hand with corporations.

648
00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:36,280
So I was very surprised
that Greenpeace

649
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:42,574
would associate itself with
GAR and work with them, even

650
00:30:42,574 --> 00:30:46,450
if the whole process is
not always sustainable.

651
00:30:46,450 --> 00:30:49,820
For me, in a way,
they are tied with GAR

652
00:30:49,820 --> 00:30:54,490
in a very consistent way with
what they do in a pure line.

653
00:30:54,490 --> 00:30:57,315
But then, I don't think
they're pushing the buttons.

654
00:30:57,315 --> 00:30:59,515
Because if we just take
a look at the bottom line

655
00:30:59,515 --> 00:31:05,660
of their chart of what they want
to do, they've cut off now also

656
00:31:05,660 --> 00:31:07,090
ties to GAR.

657
00:31:07,090 --> 00:31:09,124
And they're also
associating themselves

658
00:31:09,124 --> 00:31:11,860
with something that
is not perfect,

659
00:31:11,860 --> 00:31:16,101
which is a huge break compared
to what they usually preach.

660
00:31:16,101 --> 00:31:17,892
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So you
felt like Greenpeace

661
00:31:17,892 --> 00:31:20,130
should keep the hard
line and not associate--

662
00:31:20,130 --> 00:31:20,410
AUDIENCE: No, no.

663
00:31:20,410 --> 00:31:21,220
That's not what I'm saying.

664
00:31:21,220 --> 00:31:21,810
ALEXIS BATEMAN:
Oh, you don't know,

665
00:31:21,810 --> 00:31:22,965
it's just something you noticed.

666
00:31:22,965 --> 00:31:23,864
AUDIENCE: I was just
surprised that there

667
00:31:23,864 --> 00:31:25,986
was such a shift,
that they accepted

668
00:31:25,986 --> 00:31:28,370
such a shift in their model.

669
00:31:28,370 --> 00:31:29,604
Because usually they don't.

670
00:31:29,604 --> 00:31:30,770
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Right, yeah.

671
00:31:30,770 --> 00:31:32,400
So a shift in
Greenpeace's strategy.

672
00:31:36,038 --> 00:31:39,570
AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] the
perspective of other firms

673
00:31:39,570 --> 00:31:43,099
[INAUDIBLE] environmentalism.

674
00:31:43,099 --> 00:31:46,508
And they're pushing the button
in what many people affirm it.

675
00:31:46,508 --> 00:31:47,969
I think, actually,
the consequences

676
00:31:47,969 --> 00:31:54,787
are [INAUDIBLE], given
the different models

677
00:31:54,787 --> 00:31:57,290
that they had first.

678
00:31:57,290 --> 00:31:59,730
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Do you guys
have any thoughts on maybe,

679
00:31:59,730 --> 00:32:01,170
because of this
and how everyone's

680
00:32:01,170 --> 00:32:03,378
responding as the nature of
palm oil, or any thoughts

681
00:32:03,378 --> 00:32:07,820
on the issue of the commodity,
kind of a commodity product--

682
00:32:07,820 --> 00:32:09,850
material-- as opposed
to something that maybe

683
00:32:09,850 --> 00:32:11,452
had a more clear supply chain?

684
00:32:11,452 --> 00:32:13,660
AUDIENCE: Well, the problem
of the commodity material

685
00:32:13,660 --> 00:32:18,088
is that it's basically
almost not differentiable.

686
00:32:18,088 --> 00:32:21,532
And palm oil [INAUDIBLE]
commodity material.

687
00:32:21,532 --> 00:32:24,950
So what is the added value
of this high differentiation

688
00:32:24,950 --> 00:32:27,700
and high efforts and a
sustainable supply chain

689
00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:29,764
if it's a commodity in the end?

690
00:32:29,764 --> 00:32:35,740
So I think that customers of GAR
are really key in this process

691
00:32:35,740 --> 00:32:42,214
by pushing the system toward
more sustainable practices.

692
00:32:42,214 --> 00:32:46,740
But for me, they are the real
key of the whole process.

693
00:32:46,740 --> 00:32:48,990
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So you think
that the corporations are

694
00:32:48,990 --> 00:32:50,750
the key in what
they're sourcing,

695
00:32:50,750 --> 00:32:54,650
like the Nestles, or the actual
buyer, like the consumers?

696
00:32:54,650 --> 00:32:57,106
AUDIENCE: I think it's
the ripple effect.

697
00:32:57,106 --> 00:32:59,238
In the case, it
was Nestle, but I

698
00:32:59,238 --> 00:33:03,420
think Nestle is acting like this
because they are engaged also

699
00:33:03,420 --> 00:33:06,024
in sustainable practices because
the consumers are wanting it,

700
00:33:06,024 --> 00:33:08,955
and they don't want to have
this ripple effect on them

701
00:33:08,955 --> 00:33:10,700
like Unilever or
whatever, or they're

702
00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:13,684
using suppliers are
destroying forests.

703
00:33:13,684 --> 00:33:15,850
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So who
thinks customers are actually

704
00:33:15,850 --> 00:33:17,990
demanding this?

705
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:19,431
Sustainable palm oil?

706
00:33:19,431 --> 00:33:21,180
Did anyone know about
sustainable palm oil

707
00:33:21,180 --> 00:33:24,150
before they got here, when
they look at their products?

708
00:33:24,150 --> 00:33:24,950
No.

709
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:27,350
So absolutely, great
point, customers

710
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:29,650
are a key factor in
this, but in the end,

711
00:33:29,650 --> 00:33:32,080
when a customer picks
up their product,

712
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,480
the likelihood of them
actually knowing that palm oil

713
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,623
is in the product, so
sometimes it's a challenge.

714
00:33:37,623 --> 00:33:41,600
AUDIENCE: I think a lot
of these companies also,

715
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,900
so the corporate customers
probably look at as much

716
00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:50,130
of a risk mitigation strategy
as they do with anything else.

717
00:33:50,130 --> 00:33:53,700
So my background before
this was in food and--

718
00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:54,920
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Was in what?

719
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,550
AUDIENCE: I was in
food preparation.

720
00:33:56,550 --> 00:33:57,925
ALEXIS BATEMAN:
Oh, that's great.

721
00:33:57,925 --> 00:34:00,520
AUDIENCE: And I was
in a lot of companies

722
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,800
where they might not believe
that their consumers currently

723
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,390
care about what-- about the
sustainability of a given

724
00:34:07,390 --> 00:34:09,600
ingredient or product,
all it takes-- they also

725
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,258
realize that all it takes
is like, you remember

726
00:34:13,258 --> 00:34:15,214
the pink sludge thing
that basically shut down

727
00:34:15,214 --> 00:34:17,179
an entire company in
a matter of a month.

728
00:34:17,179 --> 00:34:19,429
It just takes something like
that coming out, like one

729
00:34:19,429 --> 00:34:21,870
video, and the next
thing you know,

730
00:34:21,870 --> 00:34:23,309
then everybody
cares very deeply,

731
00:34:23,309 --> 00:34:24,989
and there's a big outcry, and
you might not have a business.

732
00:34:24,989 --> 00:34:27,070
So I think there's
some element too

733
00:34:27,070 --> 00:34:32,026
where they should be thinking
about a long term risk

734
00:34:32,026 --> 00:34:33,484
mitigation strategy.

735
00:34:33,484 --> 00:34:35,914
ALEXIS BATEMAN:
Sure, absolutely.

736
00:34:35,914 --> 00:34:39,540
Future risk planning
and maybe learning

737
00:34:39,540 --> 00:34:40,919
from what happens to Nestle.

738
00:34:43,630 --> 00:34:47,247
Although Tony and I have been
working on a research book

739
00:34:47,247 --> 00:34:49,080
on environmentally
sustainable supply chains

740
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,530
with a couple of people, Dr.
Blanco and Professor Yossi

741
00:34:51,530 --> 00:34:52,030
Sheffi.

742
00:34:52,030 --> 00:34:55,889
But we actually looked at
their shareholder price after,

743
00:34:55,889 --> 00:34:58,189
and it did absolutely
nothing to Nestle.

744
00:34:58,189 --> 00:34:59,730
It actually didn't
drop at all, so we

745
00:34:59,730 --> 00:35:00,896
were really sad to see that.

746
00:35:00,896 --> 00:35:03,292
But we looked.

747
00:35:03,292 --> 00:35:07,020
AUDIENCE: There's also the
looming biofuel discussion,

748
00:35:07,020 --> 00:35:09,030
which I don't know,
but I would imagine

749
00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:12,815
there's even less transparency
in where you get that palm oil

750
00:35:12,815 --> 00:35:14,214
and how it's used.

751
00:35:14,214 --> 00:35:15,880
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Yeah,
I would encouraged

752
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,290
you guys to look into
ethanol, and you'll

753
00:35:18,290 --> 00:35:20,740
see the same exact mess.

754
00:35:20,740 --> 00:35:21,690
Very similar.

755
00:35:21,690 --> 00:35:23,398
Anyone else who didn't
get to get to talk

756
00:35:23,398 --> 00:35:25,220
have any overarching
comments on what

757
00:35:25,220 --> 00:35:27,280
they thought about the case?

758
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,800
JB?

759
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,042
No, nothing at all?

760
00:35:31,042 --> 00:35:33,900
AUDIENCE: I think
overall, addressing

761
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:37,806
all this stakeholders is a
step in the right direction.

762
00:35:37,806 --> 00:35:40,901
Everything has a pro or con.

763
00:35:40,901 --> 00:35:42,276
The impact on what
they're trying

764
00:35:42,276 --> 00:35:46,341
to do to the environment--
it's in the right direction

765
00:35:46,341 --> 00:35:50,167
and everything is going
towards a more sustainable.

766
00:35:50,167 --> 00:35:52,000
There's still have a
lot of work to be done,

767
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,880
but getting involved with
farmers, stakeholders,

768
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,755
governments, even Greenpeace,
even though they kind of got

769
00:35:59,755 --> 00:36:00,980
manipulated into doing this.

770
00:36:00,980 --> 00:36:04,253
It actually ends up being
towards the greater good,

771
00:36:04,253 --> 00:36:07,360
not only for the communities,
but for the environment.

772
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,280
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So you're kind
of on the something's better

773
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:11,720
than nothing.

774
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:14,630
Does everyone feel similar, or
feel like the high standard's

775
00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:15,850
the way to go?

776
00:36:15,850 --> 00:36:18,331
I feel like we have
sort of a split in here.

777
00:36:18,331 --> 00:36:18,830
Anyone?

778
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,233
All right, well--

779
00:36:23,233 --> 00:36:24,483
AUDIENCE: I do have something.

780
00:36:24,483 --> 00:36:26,430
Like I shared with
them, I just got back

781
00:36:26,430 --> 00:36:28,000
from Hershey, Pennsylvania.

782
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,950
Went on the little
Hershey chocolate--

783
00:36:29,950 --> 00:36:30,990
ALEXIS BATEMAN:
Did you bring back

784
00:36:30,990 --> 00:36:32,014
samples for the whole class?

785
00:36:32,014 --> 00:36:33,950
AUDIENCE: Actually, I
did, not for the class.

786
00:36:36,854 --> 00:36:40,555
I ate what I brought in.

787
00:36:40,555 --> 00:36:42,560
If you ever want to go,
it's a pretty cool tour.

788
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,143
You do wind up with
a lot of chocolate

789
00:36:44,143 --> 00:36:45,610
when it's all said and done.

790
00:36:45,610 --> 00:36:47,776
But what I was going to
say, what I told them about,

791
00:36:47,776 --> 00:36:51,819
was one of the things they told
about Milton Hershey was back

792
00:36:51,819 --> 00:36:54,110
when he was starting the
company after he went bankrupt

793
00:36:54,110 --> 00:36:57,070
several times, once
he went down to Cuba,

794
00:36:57,070 --> 00:36:59,060
he was trying to find
out about the sugar

795
00:36:59,060 --> 00:37:00,950
that he was using, where
it was coming from,

796
00:37:00,950 --> 00:37:04,010
how it was coming, basically
saw the deplorable conditions

797
00:37:04,010 --> 00:37:08,000
that the Cuban sugar cane
farmers were working in,

798
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,564
and basically created his own
collective or his own co-op

799
00:37:11,564 --> 00:37:13,230
down there, if you
want to call it that.

800
00:37:13,230 --> 00:37:14,789
But did much along
the same lines.

801
00:37:14,789 --> 00:37:16,955
He went down there, he
wasn't prodded into doing it,

802
00:37:16,955 --> 00:37:17,860
he just did it.

803
00:37:17,860 --> 00:37:20,600
He and his wife had gone down,
she had some medical issues,

804
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,560
and they were still
looking for some place

805
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,564
to make her-- she had
what we would say today

806
00:37:25,564 --> 00:37:26,532
was multiple sclerosis.

807
00:37:26,532 --> 00:37:30,844
They went down and they
created a school, a hospital,

808
00:37:30,844 --> 00:37:31,760
put them all together.

809
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,780
Again, much along the same lines
of everything on the board,

810
00:37:35,780 --> 00:37:37,270
by bringing them
all together, they

811
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:39,790
became more productive
sugar cane farmers.

812
00:37:39,790 --> 00:37:43,321
They had medical care,
they had education,

813
00:37:43,321 --> 00:37:45,820
they built schools and things
like that for them down there.

814
00:37:45,820 --> 00:37:48,530
And it was basically this board,
but it was somebody just doing

815
00:37:48,530 --> 00:37:50,160
it on their own.

816
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,770
Of course, he was making
millions of dollars,

817
00:37:52,770 --> 00:37:54,030
that probably didn't hurt.

818
00:37:54,030 --> 00:37:58,340
But along the same lines, just
without the NGOs thrown in,

819
00:37:58,340 --> 00:38:00,770
just somebody taking
it upon themselves.

820
00:38:00,770 --> 00:38:01,750
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Well,
if every corporation

821
00:38:01,750 --> 00:38:03,416
had a Milton Hershey,
then we'd probably

822
00:38:03,416 --> 00:38:05,199
live in a better place.

823
00:38:05,199 --> 00:38:06,740
Perfect story, I
mean I think there's

824
00:38:06,740 --> 00:38:07,520
a lot of those examples.

825
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:08,910
AUDIENCE: Very, very applicable.

826
00:38:08,910 --> 00:38:09,320
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Yes.

827
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:09,940
Yeah.

828
00:38:09,940 --> 00:38:11,192
All right, great.

829
00:38:11,192 --> 00:38:14,090
Well, I hope you
guys enjoyed the case

830
00:38:14,090 --> 00:38:16,250
and learned a little
bit about palm oil.

831
00:38:16,250 --> 00:38:20,970
So actually, one of the cases
we learned about in our research

832
00:38:20,970 --> 00:38:24,280
about palm oil is that actually
two Girl Scouts found out

833
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,590
that palm oil was in
Girl Scout Cookies,

834
00:38:28,590 --> 00:38:32,530
and they actually campaigned
against their own institution

835
00:38:32,530 --> 00:38:36,360
and brought a huge issue against
the Girl Scout Corporation

836
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,490
of America, their own--
so it was actually

837
00:38:38,490 --> 00:38:41,510
internal agitation, it wasn't
an external environmental NGO,

838
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:42,980
and that became a huge thing.

839
00:38:42,980 --> 00:38:45,930
You guys should look it up,
it's a pretty funny story.

840
00:38:45,930 --> 00:38:47,290
AUDIENCE: Did they change it?

841
00:38:47,290 --> 00:38:47,780
ALEXIS BATEMAN: What's that?

842
00:38:47,780 --> 00:38:48,780
AUDIENCE: Did they change it?

843
00:38:48,780 --> 00:38:50,113
ALEXIS BATEMAN: They did commit.

844
00:38:50,113 --> 00:38:52,630
They did commit, so they're
in the same conundrum, where

845
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:54,940
they've done some, like a
certain percentage of RSPO

846
00:38:54,940 --> 00:38:55,700
certification.

847
00:38:55,700 --> 00:38:59,440
But the actual Girl Scouts who
started when they're like 10

848
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,194
and are like now about 17
or something, they're like,

849
00:39:02,194 --> 00:39:04,610
no it's not enough, we want
you to have a higher standard.

850
00:39:04,610 --> 00:39:06,193
So they're still
pushing the internal.

851
00:39:06,193 --> 00:39:08,960
So it's a huge media thing.

852
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,740
But there's-- you can see
where different agitation comes

853
00:39:11,740 --> 00:39:13,136
in within stakeholders.

854
00:39:13,136 --> 00:39:14,510
So actually, what
we were talking

855
00:39:14,510 --> 00:39:17,585
about with the NGOs and the
different types of NGOs,

856
00:39:17,585 --> 00:39:19,460
you mentioned the
Environmental Defense Fund.

857
00:39:19,460 --> 00:39:21,600
Actually, next week,
Environmental Defense Fund

858
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,880
is going to come, and they can
talk to your point a little bit

859
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,236
about-- I'm sure
you can push them

860
00:39:27,236 --> 00:39:29,390
on some questions on
what kind of NGO they are

861
00:39:29,390 --> 00:39:34,160
and the more corporate
partnerships style, way

862
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:35,690
of working that
they do, as opposed

863
00:39:35,690 --> 00:39:38,390
to somewhere like Greenpeace
that just goes in usually

864
00:39:38,390 --> 00:39:40,100
to attack.

865
00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:42,520
So for the rest
of today I thought

866
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:47,400
I am going to just kind of
give you a brief overview.

867
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,870
Anyone else have any
questions on the case study?

868
00:39:51,870 --> 00:39:53,290
AUDIENCE: You mentioned ethanol.

869
00:39:53,290 --> 00:39:57,310
Are there any studies that
compare palm oil to ethanol?

870
00:39:57,310 --> 00:40:00,160
I'm assuming there's
probably more corn used

871
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,060
in the world than palm oil.

872
00:40:02,060 --> 00:40:03,530
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Yeah.

873
00:40:03,530 --> 00:40:06,180
I don't know about the
relative quantities

874
00:40:06,180 --> 00:40:09,310
and I'm not sure if
there's a study comparing

875
00:40:09,310 --> 00:40:10,790
the issues behind that.

876
00:40:10,790 --> 00:40:15,430
There's definitely different
issues in palm oil and ethanol,

877
00:40:15,430 --> 00:40:18,884
but I'd encourage you to look up
what's happening in the ethanol

878
00:40:18,884 --> 00:40:20,550
supply chain and
what's happening there,

879
00:40:20,550 --> 00:40:22,580
but not off the top my head.

880
00:40:22,580 --> 00:40:26,650
If I find one, though,
I'll send it to you.

881
00:40:26,650 --> 00:40:30,590
So I thought the palm oil
was a perfect example.

882
00:40:30,590 --> 00:40:34,600
It's like one of the most-- not
the most, but a very complex

883
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,370
example of multi-stakeholder
engagement.

884
00:40:37,370 --> 00:40:43,060
This is just a small perspective
on how many actual stakeholders

885
00:40:43,060 --> 00:40:43,940
are involved.

886
00:40:43,940 --> 00:40:45,680
Within each of
those subheadings,

887
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,900
there's multiple
corporations, multiple mills,

888
00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:51,210
thousands of farmers.

889
00:40:51,210 --> 00:40:53,370
And so getting all
these people together

890
00:40:53,370 --> 00:40:55,140
to agree on different
certifications

891
00:40:55,140 --> 00:40:57,880
and how they're going
to actually run that

892
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,210
was incredibly complex, and
it's still very much ongoing.

893
00:41:01,210 --> 00:41:04,420
There's still a lot of debate,
external debate from the World

894
00:41:04,420 --> 00:41:05,980
Wildlife Federation
on the standards.

895
00:41:05,980 --> 00:41:09,780
A lot of different NGOs are
commenting on how it's going.

896
00:41:09,780 --> 00:41:12,700
So we actually covered--
some of the stories

897
00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:16,740
that we've looked at and a lot
of the times when companies do

898
00:41:16,740 --> 00:41:19,250
tend to commit to
multi-stakeholder engagements

899
00:41:19,250 --> 00:41:21,826
or realize that they have
a gap in their strategy,

900
00:41:21,826 --> 00:41:23,200
in their sustainability
strategy,

901
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,360
is when an NGO finds it.

902
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,840
And so that's sort ot--
these are just two.

903
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,680
So Nestle and Greenpeace is
what we talked about today,

904
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,730
where Greenpeace
activists actually

905
00:41:32,730 --> 00:41:36,410
dropped into their shareholder
meeting dressed as gorillas

906
00:41:36,410 --> 00:41:38,640
and totally blockaded the doors.

907
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,270
And there's other
examples of Greenpeace.

908
00:41:42,270 --> 00:41:45,610
I don't know if they rock
climbed or parachuted

909
00:41:45,610 --> 00:41:49,770
onto the top of HP and actually
spray painted toxic materials

910
00:41:49,770 --> 00:41:51,757
on the top of HP because
they're attacking

911
00:41:51,757 --> 00:41:53,340
HP for some of the
materials that they

912
00:41:53,340 --> 00:41:57,290
were using in their supply chain
that were labeled as toxic.

913
00:41:57,290 --> 00:42:00,266
So they have some very
Interesting campaign tactics,

914
00:42:00,266 --> 00:42:02,140
but definitely get people
to look, especially

915
00:42:02,140 --> 00:42:04,220
with the Nestle commercial.

916
00:42:04,220 --> 00:42:05,660
This actually was
a different case

917
00:42:05,660 --> 00:42:10,180
where the Rainforest
Alliance Network actually

918
00:42:10,180 --> 00:42:11,230
attacked Mitsubishi.

919
00:42:11,230 --> 00:42:13,890
So Mitsubishi is actually
three different companies.

920
00:42:13,890 --> 00:42:15,280
There's a parent
company and then

921
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:16,900
there's Mitsubishi
Electric, and then

922
00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:20,250
there's Mitsubishi Automotive
which is probably what we're

923
00:42:20,250 --> 00:42:22,440
most familiar with, the cars.

924
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,670
But actually the parent company
was sourcing paper products

925
00:42:26,670 --> 00:42:28,490
that were unsustainable,
and there's a lot

926
00:42:28,490 --> 00:42:30,160
of clear cutting of rainforest.

927
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,110
And what happened was that they
just don't have a public face,

928
00:42:33,110 --> 00:42:34,950
so the Rainforest
Alliance Network actually

929
00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:37,430
decided to attack the
automotive company,

930
00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:41,291
even though they actually had
no connection to the paper

931
00:42:41,291 --> 00:42:41,790
sourcing.

932
00:42:41,790 --> 00:42:45,529
So this is where NGOs are
using different strategies

933
00:42:45,529 --> 00:42:46,570
to get it into the media.

934
00:42:46,570 --> 00:42:49,920
So they actually had
sit-ins at the dealerships.

935
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,490
And what happened was the
dealerships then called

936
00:42:52,490 --> 00:42:54,220
Mitsubishi Automotive
Electric and said,

937
00:42:54,220 --> 00:42:55,890
we can't deal with this,
we're losing sales.

938
00:42:55,890 --> 00:42:57,400
And then the
Mitsubishi executives

939
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,025
across three different
parent companies

940
00:42:59,025 --> 00:43:01,950
had to actually decide
what they were going to do.

941
00:43:01,950 --> 00:43:05,100
The sad story is that the
electric and the automotive

942
00:43:05,100 --> 00:43:08,021
actually committed to
paper sourcing policies

943
00:43:08,021 --> 00:43:09,520
and the parent
company still didn't,

944
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,936
because they couldn't get down
to the actual root problem.

945
00:43:11,936 --> 00:43:13,580
So that's some of
the perspective

946
00:43:13,580 --> 00:43:17,220
on how NGOs go about getting
into these complex problems

947
00:43:17,220 --> 00:43:19,755
by pushing the hand of
the public brand owners.

948
00:43:23,770 --> 00:43:27,140
So one of the most
clear, simple ways

949
00:43:27,140 --> 00:43:29,450
that companies are
engaging is when

950
00:43:29,450 --> 00:43:33,490
they realize that they
need help in increasing

951
00:43:33,490 --> 00:43:35,070
their sustainability.

952
00:43:35,070 --> 00:43:38,500
Chiquita actually
has-- I think they

953
00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:43,890
started in 1992 with the
Rainforest Alliance Network.

954
00:43:43,890 --> 00:43:47,610
They were getting
training and information

955
00:43:47,610 --> 00:43:51,630
on how to grow their
bananas more sustainably,

956
00:43:51,630 --> 00:43:54,730
so they're using the RAN to work
with their farmers and growers.

957
00:43:54,730 --> 00:43:58,190
And so they've actually
used them for over 20 years.

958
00:43:58,190 --> 00:43:59,805
Chiquita has sort
of a checkered past,

959
00:43:59,805 --> 00:44:03,634
so they obviously decided
they needed to have a partner.

960
00:44:03,634 --> 00:44:06,050
That was a one-on-one partner,
and they've actually worked

961
00:44:06,050 --> 00:44:08,910
with them for many years
to look at organic issues

962
00:44:08,910 --> 00:44:12,430
and Sustainable transportation
their products and all

963
00:44:12,430 --> 00:44:13,690
of the above.

964
00:44:13,690 --> 00:44:17,160
And actually, Chiquita
sought out Tony Craig

965
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,490
to do their carbon
footprint, so they obviously

966
00:44:19,490 --> 00:44:20,650
need a lot of help.

967
00:44:20,650 --> 00:44:23,990
They were actually
looking to Tony

968
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:27,260
to assess their entire carbon
footprint of a single banana.

969
00:44:27,260 --> 00:44:29,270
So we'd talked
about that earlier.

970
00:44:29,270 --> 00:44:32,225
Other one-on-one
partnerships-- Dell-- who

971
00:44:32,225 --> 00:44:33,581
has a Dell computer in here?

972
00:44:33,581 --> 00:44:34,080
Anybody?

973
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,360
So a pretty big brand.

974
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,000
They've actually-- one
of their major problems

975
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,530
that they were attacked
with was their e-waste.

976
00:44:42,530 --> 00:44:45,979
So what are they doing with
the end of life products?

977
00:44:45,979 --> 00:44:47,770
Several years ago, when
they were attacked,

978
00:44:47,770 --> 00:44:49,020
I think it was
about 10 years ago,

979
00:44:49,020 --> 00:44:50,186
they weren't doing anything.

980
00:44:50,186 --> 00:44:51,650
And so instead,
now, today they've

981
00:44:51,650 --> 00:44:54,180
partnered with Goodwill
as a collection point.

982
00:44:54,180 --> 00:44:58,732
So the Goodwill can actually
collect Dell products,

983
00:44:58,732 --> 00:45:00,440
and they also collect
any other products.

984
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:01,860
Actually, if you
guys look it up,

985
00:45:01,860 --> 00:45:03,370
you can turn your
e-waste in there,

986
00:45:03,370 --> 00:45:05,620
and actually Goodwill
collects those products

987
00:45:05,620 --> 00:45:09,410
and then Dell pays for the
actual recycling and separation

988
00:45:09,410 --> 00:45:12,950
of their computers so that
they don't go into landfills.

989
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:15,810
These are one-on-one
partnerships

990
00:45:15,810 --> 00:45:19,240
where the company decided they
needed help with their strategy

991
00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:21,100
and then they sought
out a partner that

992
00:45:21,100 --> 00:45:24,160
was a technical expert in that.

993
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,260
In the case of Walmart and the
Environmental Defense Fund,

994
00:45:27,260 --> 00:45:30,040
you guys will get a
little bit more insight

995
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,360
into what they're doing
in their partnership.

996
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:37,390
But when Walmart decided to
integrate a sustainability

997
00:45:37,390 --> 00:45:41,810
program about in 2005, so
almost 10 years ago, they

998
00:45:41,810 --> 00:45:44,964
needed many partners, and they
need one strategic partner

999
00:45:44,964 --> 00:45:46,630
to kind of guide their
overall strategy.

1000
00:45:46,630 --> 00:45:48,640
So they brought in
Environmental Defense Fund

1001
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,400
to look at their
overarching strategies

1002
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,020
and how they were going to
drive that into their business.

1003
00:45:53,020 --> 00:45:55,640
So EDF is actually a
really unique story.

1004
00:45:55,640 --> 00:46:00,360
We're hoping to get the woman
that is actually co-located

1005
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:01,910
with Walmart in Bentonville.

1006
00:46:01,910 --> 00:46:04,900
Their offices are in
Bentonville, Arkansas,

1007
00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:07,359
and obviously Walmart,
being one of the largest

1008
00:46:07,359 --> 00:46:09,400
retailers in the world,
has a significant impact.

1009
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,120
So they actually co-located
their office there so

1010
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,450
that they could have
a person on site

1011
00:46:14,450 --> 00:46:16,810
and work with different
Walmart individuals

1012
00:46:16,810 --> 00:46:18,640
as they come along with
different problems.

1013
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:23,060
So that's sort of
a unique thing.

1014
00:46:23,060 --> 00:46:25,180
These are examples
of one-on-one,

1015
00:46:25,180 --> 00:46:27,340
where the company
decided they needed help,

1016
00:46:27,340 --> 00:46:29,290
they sought out
a single partner.

1017
00:46:29,290 --> 00:46:32,700
Other cases are
when a company has

1018
00:46:32,700 --> 00:46:35,570
a lot of different partners, and
this is true of many companies

1019
00:46:35,570 --> 00:46:38,360
where they've decided
they needed support

1020
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,090
in different angles.

1021
00:46:40,090 --> 00:46:42,434
Starbucks, a major
coffee company, I'm sure

1022
00:46:42,434 --> 00:46:43,600
you guys don't know of them.

1023
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:48,660
But they have brought in a
lot of different partners.

1024
00:46:48,660 --> 00:46:52,060
In terms of how they're moving
their cups and other products

1025
00:46:52,060 --> 00:46:56,000
to more recyclable-- and
using more recycled material

1026
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,490
in their actual
products, they've

1027
00:46:57,490 --> 00:47:00,460
[INAUDIBLE] the Sustainable
Packaging Coalition.

1028
00:47:00,460 --> 00:47:03,060
They've had other-- for
more of their social issues,

1029
00:47:03,060 --> 00:47:06,147
looking at helping
their farmers that

1030
00:47:06,147 --> 00:47:07,730
grow their coffee
and their chocolate,

1031
00:47:07,730 --> 00:47:10,610
and they've partnered
with Root Capital.

1032
00:47:10,610 --> 00:47:13,120
In terms of how they're
actually integrating

1033
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:14,720
recycling into
their sites, which

1034
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:16,710
has been an ongoing
problem, they've

1035
00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:18,990
had working with the National
Recycling Correlation,

1036
00:47:18,990 --> 00:47:19,950
and so forth.

1037
00:47:19,950 --> 00:47:22,120
So each of these
different angles

1038
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,700
that they've found
a blind spot, they

1039
00:47:25,700 --> 00:47:28,870
sought out a partner so that
they can improve their strategy

1040
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:31,060
and also have an
expert in that area,

1041
00:47:31,060 --> 00:47:33,440
as opposed to
developing internally.

1042
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,820
In some cases, some
companies choose

1043
00:47:35,820 --> 00:47:37,820
to develop that
expertise internally.

1044
00:47:37,820 --> 00:47:40,280
So they bring in a
sustainability person

1045
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,370
that is an expert in
packaging, and that's

1046
00:47:42,370 --> 00:47:43,600
true of some companies.

1047
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,550
And some decide
that they don't want

1048
00:47:45,550 --> 00:47:47,080
to develop that
internal expertise,

1049
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:48,580
they'd rather seek
out someone who's

1050
00:47:48,580 --> 00:47:53,242
already a leader in that area.

1051
00:47:53,242 --> 00:47:53,825
Any questions?

1052
00:47:57,690 --> 00:48:01,190
And then the last
kind of major bucket.

1053
00:48:01,190 --> 00:48:02,970
Of course, these
can all be split

1054
00:48:02,970 --> 00:48:04,880
into many different hybrid.

1055
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,800
Some people have a
one-on-one collaboration

1056
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:09,227
and their industry
collaboration,

1057
00:48:09,227 --> 00:48:11,060
or they have multiple
partners and industry.

1058
00:48:11,060 --> 00:48:13,874
So everyone pretty much
just everything now,

1059
00:48:13,874 --> 00:48:15,040
most of the major companies.

1060
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,730
So the other kind of
example would be an industry

1061
00:48:17,730 --> 00:48:20,070
collaboration, as we talked
about with the RSPO, where

1062
00:48:20,070 --> 00:48:24,240
they bring together
multiple stakeholders.

1063
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:26,770
They are this
convening a group that

1064
00:48:26,770 --> 00:48:29,050
discusses the major
issues, and then they

1065
00:48:29,050 --> 00:48:32,090
may provide certification,
they may provide training,

1066
00:48:32,090 --> 00:48:35,060
they may provide information for
the company's stakeholders, all

1067
00:48:35,060 --> 00:48:35,610
of the above.

1068
00:48:35,610 --> 00:48:38,260
So that was-- RSPO
is one example.

1069
00:48:38,260 --> 00:48:40,670
Another example is the
Sustainability Consortium.

1070
00:48:40,670 --> 00:48:44,220
Has anyone heard of the
Sustainability Consortium?

1071
00:48:44,220 --> 00:48:49,780
OK, so that's the biggest
one, so it's all downhill

1072
00:48:49,780 --> 00:48:51,720
from there.

1073
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:54,880
The Sustainability Consortium
actually came out of Walmart.

1074
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,890
So Walmart realized
that they could only

1075
00:48:58,890 --> 00:49:02,194
influence so much in terms
of their environmental impact

1076
00:49:02,194 --> 00:49:03,360
within their own four walls.

1077
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,780
They realized most other impact
was outside their four walls.

1078
00:49:06,780 --> 00:49:10,570
They're buying P&G detergents,
they're buying Unilever shampoo

1079
00:49:10,570 --> 00:49:14,450
and s and they realize all
their suppliers were actually

1080
00:49:14,450 --> 00:49:15,850
a major source of the impact.

1081
00:49:15,850 --> 00:49:17,680
So instead of just
trying to focus

1082
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,590
on their own internal impacts,
they pumped a bunch of money

1083
00:49:20,590 --> 00:49:22,719
into making an
institution where all

1084
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,260
of these different
suppliers, as well

1085
00:49:24,260 --> 00:49:26,870
as other people from
across the industry,

1086
00:49:26,870 --> 00:49:28,490
could come together
and understand

1087
00:49:28,490 --> 00:49:29,980
the impacts of products.

1088
00:49:29,980 --> 00:49:35,010
The actual outcome of it has
been kind of mixed and not

1089
00:49:35,010 --> 00:49:36,950
totally successful,
but it has been

1090
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:38,900
a source of provision
for companies

1091
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:42,020
to learn how where the greatest
impacts in major products are.

1092
00:49:42,020 --> 00:49:44,800
So they have different
product groups like shampoo,

1093
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,635
and understanding where the
biggest hot spots of impact, so

1094
00:49:47,635 --> 00:49:50,160
that a company can address
that in their own supply chain.

1095
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,860
So sort of serving as an
intermediary of information

1096
00:49:52,860 --> 00:49:55,880
for all these
different stakeholders.

1097
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,730
Another one is the Electronic
Industry Citizenship Coalition,

1098
00:49:58,730 --> 00:49:59,670
EICC.

1099
00:49:59,670 --> 00:50:04,970
Pretty much every major
electronics group, Apple, Dell,

1100
00:50:04,970 --> 00:50:07,900
they're all part of EICC,
and that serves in a couple

1101
00:50:07,900 --> 00:50:11,440
different ways of helping
companies certify their supply

1102
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,830
chains, and things
like conflict minerals,

1103
00:50:14,830 --> 00:50:17,074
understanding how to go
deep into their supply chain

1104
00:50:17,074 --> 00:50:19,240
to make sure they're not
sourcing conflict minerals,

1105
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:21,360
or looking at alternatives.

1106
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,420
Looking at social
issues on how actually

1107
00:50:23,420 --> 00:50:26,390
the end of supply chain,
how social issues are

1108
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:27,930
working in manufacturing sites.

1109
00:50:27,930 --> 00:50:30,770
I'm sure everyone heard
about Apple's issues

1110
00:50:30,770 --> 00:50:34,410
with suicides and other
issues at Foxconn.

1111
00:50:34,410 --> 00:50:37,940
So that was a systemic
issue there that EICC

1112
00:50:37,940 --> 00:50:40,050
has served as sort
of a middle ground

1113
00:50:40,050 --> 00:50:41,800
on how to deal with
those kinds of issues,

1114
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,530
going in your supply
chain and certifying

1115
00:50:43,530 --> 00:50:47,490
that your manufacturing
sites are of good condition.

1116
00:50:47,490 --> 00:50:50,410
The last one is the
Sustainable Apparel Coalition.

1117
00:50:50,410 --> 00:50:52,021
This is-- there's many of these.

1118
00:50:52,021 --> 00:50:53,020
You could go on forever.

1119
00:50:53,020 --> 00:50:53,853
There's quite a few.

1120
00:50:53,853 --> 00:50:57,000
But this one in particular
is looking at clothes

1121
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:01,860
and how you certify the
impact, how you calculate

1122
00:51:01,860 --> 00:51:03,820
the impact of the clothes
that you're making,

1123
00:51:03,820 --> 00:51:06,762
from the materials you're
using down to getting down

1124
00:51:06,762 --> 00:51:07,470
to the consumers.

1125
00:51:07,470 --> 00:51:10,960
So they've come together to
understand a tool so that they

1126
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,840
can know the impact there.

1127
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:18,010
AUDIENCE: It seemed
like, say, ten years ago,

1128
00:51:18,010 --> 00:51:21,030
companies actually tried to say,
hey, here's what we're doing.

1129
00:51:21,030 --> 00:51:23,862
Then it seemed they all
stopped, because they were just

1130
00:51:23,862 --> 00:51:24,570
getting hammered.

1131
00:51:24,570 --> 00:51:27,430
If they said, hey,
we're doing this,

1132
00:51:27,430 --> 00:51:30,740
then they would get hammered on
five or 10 or 15 other things

1133
00:51:30,740 --> 00:51:32,676
that they just were like,
well, that's stupid.

1134
00:51:32,676 --> 00:51:34,416
I tried to say I'm
doing something right,

1135
00:51:34,416 --> 00:51:36,040
and you just bludgeoned
me mercilessly.

1136
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:37,385
ALEXIS BATEMAN: You're talking
about the communication

1137
00:51:37,385 --> 00:51:37,885
strategy?

1138
00:51:37,885 --> 00:51:39,380
AUDIENCE: Yeah,
Walmart especially.

1139
00:51:39,380 --> 00:51:41,990
Walmart came out and said,
OK, we're wrong on all fronts.

1140
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:44,114
And then they said, here's
what we're trying to do,

1141
00:51:44,114 --> 00:51:45,655
and then they actually
got hit again.

1142
00:51:45,655 --> 00:51:47,690
But it seems like
they've all gone away

1143
00:51:47,690 --> 00:51:51,010
from saying what they're doing
to just simply now touting

1144
00:51:51,010 --> 00:51:52,970
products, like we
said, this product

1145
00:51:52,970 --> 00:51:55,080
is using certified this or that.

1146
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,750
So they focus now
simply on products

1147
00:51:58,750 --> 00:52:02,640
versus the corporate hey,
look what we've done.

1148
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,315
It just seems like
they've all gotten away

1149
00:52:05,315 --> 00:52:10,192
from trying to put themselves on
a pedestal and just gone, well,

1150
00:52:10,192 --> 00:52:11,400
you can look at that product.

1151
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,295
That's a good product, if you
really want to buy something--

1152
00:52:13,295 --> 00:52:13,960
ALEXIS BATEMAN: So sort of a--

1153
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:14,920
AUDIENCE: They focus on that.

1154
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:16,850
ALEXIS BATEMAN: A case
of a perfect case or--

1155
00:52:16,850 --> 00:52:18,885
AUDIENCE: I think that
the corporations found

1156
00:52:18,885 --> 00:52:20,885
that you can't say you're
doing something right,

1157
00:52:20,885 --> 00:52:22,968
because there's too many
people that will continue

1158
00:52:22,968 --> 00:52:24,500
to kick you in the shins.

1159
00:52:24,500 --> 00:52:26,660
I think they'll just stop.

1160
00:52:26,660 --> 00:52:28,244
We're trying, but
trying doesn't work.

1161
00:52:28,244 --> 00:52:29,118
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Sure.

1162
00:52:29,118 --> 00:52:31,540
I mean, in our research
we found there's quite

1163
00:52:31,540 --> 00:52:32,850
a few different strategies.

1164
00:52:32,850 --> 00:52:35,820
So you have, if
you're a brown firm,

1165
00:52:35,820 --> 00:52:38,590
brown for meaning you're not
doing anything environmentally

1166
00:52:38,590 --> 00:52:43,190
sustainable, if you say what
you're doing and open up,

1167
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:45,860
then you're going to get
kudos, because you're brown.

1168
00:52:45,860 --> 00:52:47,404
And then if there's
a neutral firm,

1169
00:52:47,404 --> 00:52:48,570
it's going to go either way.

1170
00:52:48,570 --> 00:52:52,780
So it's not clear if you're
doing some things but not

1171
00:52:52,780 --> 00:52:55,290
others, whether if you're more
transparent and communicating

1172
00:52:55,290 --> 00:52:55,950
what you do.

1173
00:52:55,950 --> 00:52:59,745
And then on the green side,
typically they can communicate,

1174
00:52:59,745 --> 00:53:01,870
they're just kind of assumed
to be a green company.

1175
00:53:01,870 --> 00:53:05,590
Has anyone seen with
their project companies

1176
00:53:05,590 --> 00:53:09,721
any issues with the
communication practices?

1177
00:53:09,721 --> 00:53:11,220
How they thought
they went about it,

1178
00:53:11,220 --> 00:53:13,011
they should have been
communicating it more

1179
00:53:13,011 --> 00:53:15,016
or communicating it less?

1180
00:53:15,016 --> 00:53:16,772
Any thoughts on that?

1181
00:53:16,772 --> 00:53:18,200
No?

1182
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,980
Nobody communicated?

1183
00:53:20,980 --> 00:53:23,920
Well, it's a good point.

1184
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:27,950
Especially in some of these
industries, they get a label.

1185
00:53:27,950 --> 00:53:31,534
A lot of these
collaborations and NGOs,

1186
00:53:31,534 --> 00:53:33,450
they get a label like
the Rainforest Alliance,

1187
00:53:33,450 --> 00:53:36,220
you saw in Chiquita Banana,
they had their RAN sticker.

1188
00:53:36,220 --> 00:53:38,869
And so sometimes companies
want to put that on there

1189
00:53:38,869 --> 00:53:41,410
because they want the consumer
to think it's a green product.

1190
00:53:41,410 --> 00:53:42,993
Some other companies
don't, because it

1191
00:53:42,993 --> 00:53:44,070
confuses the consumers.

1192
00:53:44,070 --> 00:53:45,611
So there's a lot of
different choices

1193
00:53:45,611 --> 00:53:50,640
and how this goes about,
and how do you choose.

1194
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,060
So in terms of-- this
is just an example

1195
00:53:53,060 --> 00:53:56,230
of what the Sustainability
Consortium does for companies,

1196
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:58,857
just showing you the
information source.

1197
00:53:58,857 --> 00:54:00,690
There's a lot of text
up here, so don't even

1198
00:54:00,690 --> 00:54:01,648
worry about reading it.

1199
00:54:01,648 --> 00:54:04,090
But what they have
done is decided

1200
00:54:04,090 --> 00:54:10,502
to do a literature review on
different products and existing

1201
00:54:10,502 --> 00:54:12,960
research and finding out where
the different hot spots are.

1202
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:14,790
So they provide
this information,

1203
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:18,150
this kind of hot spots
of where issues are.

1204
00:54:18,150 --> 00:54:22,800
So this is on chemical bleach
use in pulp manufacturing,

1205
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,080
so in terms of paper, where
the major hot spots and impacts

1206
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:26,580
are.

1207
00:54:26,580 --> 00:54:30,500
They've done a review of
the existing information.

1208
00:54:30,500 --> 00:54:34,489
They tell the companies
where the major impacts

1209
00:54:34,489 --> 00:54:36,280
are so the companies
can be aware that when

1210
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,100
they're looking at
their supply chain

1211
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:39,799
and then provide
them different KPIs

1212
00:54:39,799 --> 00:54:41,840
that they can actually
use to measure the impact.

1213
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,670
So that's one example of how
an industry association might

1214
00:54:45,670 --> 00:54:48,120
provide information or
support for a company.

1215
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:51,660
Does that makes sense?

1216
00:54:51,660 --> 00:54:54,540
Just an example.

1217
00:54:54,540 --> 00:54:57,820
So lastly, the
Environmental Defense Fund

1218
00:54:57,820 --> 00:55:00,320
will be here next
week, so actually it'll

1219
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,479
give you a lot more insight
on how they actually

1220
00:55:02,479 --> 00:55:04,270
go about partnerships
with their companies,

1221
00:55:04,270 --> 00:55:06,600
which will be really great.

1222
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,940
They actually put
out this report

1223
00:55:09,940 --> 00:55:14,220
with the Global Environmental
Management Initiative, GEMI.

1224
00:55:14,220 --> 00:55:19,710
There's a lot of confusion about
how NGOs partner with companies

1225
00:55:19,710 --> 00:55:23,210
and how payment works and
how the collaboration works,

1226
00:55:23,210 --> 00:55:25,710
which is an ongoing issue.

1227
00:55:25,710 --> 00:55:28,280
So they talked
about, first of all,

1228
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,880
you've got to define your
overall objective that you

1229
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:31,610
need help with.

1230
00:55:31,610 --> 00:55:33,860
So in the case of
Nestle, they decided

1231
00:55:33,860 --> 00:55:36,360
they didn't know anything about
their palm oil supply chain,

1232
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:37,740
so they had to find a partner.

1233
00:55:37,740 --> 00:55:39,805
So the Forest Trust
was a good partner.

1234
00:55:39,805 --> 00:55:42,180
They were an expert in the
area and they brought them in.

1235
00:55:42,180 --> 00:55:46,080
So it's very, very clear
what they needed help with.

1236
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,890
So then next would be
design the project.

1237
00:55:49,890 --> 00:55:54,220
So what are the criteria, what
are the overall objectives

1238
00:55:54,220 --> 00:55:57,550
in increasing the
transparency, and who's

1239
00:55:57,550 --> 00:55:58,770
a good partner for that?

1240
00:55:58,770 --> 00:56:01,220
So there's a lot of seeking
out the different experts

1241
00:56:01,220 --> 00:56:04,900
in that area, as well
as project execution.

1242
00:56:04,900 --> 00:56:06,860
So on the company
side, there has

1243
00:56:06,860 --> 00:56:09,430
to be someone who is the
direct contact for the NGO

1244
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:11,844
that's going to provide
them information.

1245
00:56:11,844 --> 00:56:14,260
I don't know if you guys watched
a lot of the Forest Trust

1246
00:56:14,260 --> 00:56:18,130
videos or not, but Scott
Poynton, who's the founder,

1247
00:56:18,130 --> 00:56:21,856
he's very vocal, and I talked to
him in interviews several times

1248
00:56:21,856 --> 00:56:23,480
now, and he's very
vocal about the fact

1249
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,841
that they're not
a pay-and-go NGO.

1250
00:56:26,841 --> 00:56:28,590
They don't want companies
just giving them

1251
00:56:28,590 --> 00:56:31,210
cash so they can say they're
working with the Forest Trust.

1252
00:56:31,210 --> 00:56:34,742
They're very much going to push
them on what they need to do

1253
00:56:34,742 --> 00:56:36,700
and they're not going to
let them get off easy.

1254
00:56:36,700 --> 00:56:39,120
So there's different
kinds of NGOs,

1255
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,580
where some might be just
willing to take some cash

1256
00:56:41,580 --> 00:56:43,832
and be sort of a
figure project lead

1257
00:56:43,832 --> 00:56:45,540
and say they're working
with the company,

1258
00:56:45,540 --> 00:56:47,919
whereas other NGOs are
much more hard hitting.

1259
00:56:47,919 --> 00:56:49,460
Case of Greenpeace,
they don't really

1260
00:56:49,460 --> 00:56:51,918
want to work with anyone, they
just want to push companies.

1261
00:56:54,070 --> 00:56:57,840
Finally, one challenge will be
the measuring of communication.

1262
00:56:57,840 --> 00:56:59,970
A lot of companies sometimes
are reluctant partner,

1263
00:56:59,970 --> 00:57:02,470
because what are
the actual outcomes?

1264
00:57:02,470 --> 00:57:04,460
Vague, nebulous outcomes.

1265
00:57:04,460 --> 00:57:08,010
At the end, we talked
about some risk strategy,

1266
00:57:08,010 --> 00:57:11,100
which is a very apparent
and necessary thing,

1267
00:57:11,100 --> 00:57:13,750
but what are the actual
measurable outputs

1268
00:57:13,750 --> 00:57:16,430
for a company at that time
sometimes ends up here.

1269
00:57:16,430 --> 00:57:24,021
So these are major themes of
how stakeholder engagement can

1270
00:57:24,021 --> 00:57:24,520
happen.

1271
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,160
And so- we will have-- yeah?

1272
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:32,275
AUDIENCE: So we have so many
certification bodies and so

1273
00:57:32,275 --> 00:57:33,610
many different standards.

1274
00:57:33,610 --> 00:57:34,980
Some of them can be paid off.

1275
00:57:34,980 --> 00:57:36,810
You can buy some of
these certifications.

1276
00:57:36,810 --> 00:57:40,550
Is there any policing
body or any audit of these

1277
00:57:40,550 --> 00:57:43,145
certification bodies that
actually pull down those that

1278
00:57:43,145 --> 00:57:47,546
aren't really-- because
for a consumer, it's--

1279
00:57:47,546 --> 00:57:48,920
ALEXIS BATEMAN:
Sure, absolutely.

1280
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:53,070
I mean, it's a very--
there's Eco Label Index.

1281
00:57:53,070 --> 00:57:57,210
There's actually a group
that compiles all the labels

1282
00:57:57,210 --> 00:57:58,040
around the world.

1283
00:57:58,040 --> 00:57:59,706
I think the last time
I checked, there's

1284
00:57:59,706 --> 00:58:03,110
like 440 labels around the
world in 30 industries.

1285
00:58:03,110 --> 00:58:05,857
So it's a ridiculous amount
of labels, and most of them

1286
00:58:05,857 --> 00:58:06,690
don't mean anything.

1287
00:58:06,690 --> 00:58:10,420
There are within, most within
the United States and Europe,

1288
00:58:10,420 --> 00:58:15,160
there are marketing bodies
with the government that

1289
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,410
can regulate if they feel
there's some greenwashing

1290
00:58:18,410 --> 00:58:21,200
or if there is the actual
label isn't actually

1291
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,170
providing the certification
these standards it is.

1292
00:58:24,170 --> 00:58:26,000
But the fact of the
matter is that there

1293
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,850
is very little regulation.

1294
00:58:28,850 --> 00:58:30,414
Some of these
marketing regulations

1295
00:58:30,414 --> 00:58:31,330
contradict themselves.

1296
00:58:31,330 --> 00:58:34,590
So unfortunately there's very
little in the form of that,

1297
00:58:34,590 --> 00:58:35,090
absolutely.

1298
00:58:35,090 --> 00:58:40,200
But I do see some of the
labels becoming defunct.

1299
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,850
I actually found a label
that was called Green Label,

1300
00:58:42,850 --> 00:58:45,890
and then you just had to go
in and type in that you had,

1301
00:58:45,890 --> 00:58:47,360
you know, fluorescent
light bulbs,

1302
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:48,820
and that people carpooled.

1303
00:58:48,820 --> 00:58:50,440
And then you could get a
label for your product,

1304
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:51,648
and that's all you had to do.

1305
00:58:51,648 --> 00:58:55,058
So there's certainly a
huge range of the rigor.

1306
00:58:55,058 --> 00:58:56,641
AUDIENCE: I wonder
if there are things

1307
00:58:56,641 --> 00:58:58,205
we can learn from
the organic farming,

1308
00:58:58,205 --> 00:59:00,470
because they appear to be a
little more stable and more

1309
00:59:00,470 --> 00:59:01,428
regulated on that side.

1310
00:59:01,428 --> 00:59:04,570
So if there's anything that we
can learn from them and apply?

1311
00:59:04,570 --> 00:59:06,810
ALEXIS BATEMAN: Yeah,
organic is a perfect example.

1312
00:59:06,810 --> 00:59:09,550
They've been around
for quite a few years,

1313
00:59:09,550 --> 00:59:12,710
so there are also challenges
within the organic label.

1314
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:15,290
The good thing about
organic is that's recognized

1315
00:59:15,290 --> 00:59:18,370
and people understand, for
the most part, what it means.

1316
00:59:18,370 --> 00:59:23,700
The challenge now in that is
that now the USDA is actually

1317
00:59:23,700 --> 00:59:27,090
accepting more materials
that can be certified organic

1318
00:59:27,090 --> 00:59:29,860
that a lot of different
bodies don't feel

1319
00:59:29,860 --> 00:59:32,110
should be able to be
classified organic.

1320
00:59:32,110 --> 00:59:37,420
Because they're trying
to certify organic baking

1321
00:59:37,420 --> 00:59:40,040
products, which has a lot
more inputs, as opposed

1322
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:42,470
to an apple or a different
fruit or vegetable.

1323
00:59:42,470 --> 00:59:45,680
So we could definitely--
we should talk, actually,

1324
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:49,450
at the-- later on, we're going
to have a sustainability supply

1325
00:59:49,450 --> 00:59:51,779
chain strategy
discussion and I'll

1326
00:59:51,779 --> 00:59:53,320
talk about organic
a little bit more,

1327
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,670
and some of the
labels challenges

1328
00:59:55,670 --> 00:59:58,150
on what is happening in
some of these spaces.

1329
00:59:58,150 --> 01:00:00,370
I think that'd be
a great discussion.

1330
01:00:00,370 --> 01:00:04,205
Another label that's well
recognized is Energy Star.

1331
01:00:04,205 --> 01:00:05,580
Do you guys all
know Energy Star?

1332
01:00:05,580 --> 01:00:09,870
So there are few labels that are
being for the industry standard

1333
01:00:09,870 --> 01:00:11,870
and they're kind of
consolidating around that.

1334
01:00:11,870 --> 01:00:14,730
And so there are
some evidence where

1335
01:00:14,730 --> 01:00:17,900
there is to go to label that
is seen as rigor and the labels

1336
01:00:17,900 --> 01:00:19,790
that people don't recognize.

1337
01:00:19,790 --> 01:00:22,950
So in that way, companies are
consolidating what they use

1338
01:00:22,950 --> 01:00:24,700
and how they communicate
their strategies.

1339
01:00:24,700 --> 01:00:26,366
So we could talk about
that, definitely,

1340
01:00:26,366 --> 01:00:27,880
later on in this course.

1341
01:00:30,470 --> 01:00:31,980
I think that's it for today.

1342
01:00:31,980 --> 01:00:35,980
Maybe we should talk about
what else we have due.

1343
01:00:35,980 --> 01:00:37,190
What do we have due, Tony?

1344
01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:38,222
Do we have anything due?

1345
01:00:38,222 --> 01:00:38,930
You have no idea.

1346
01:00:44,500 --> 01:00:46,030
so let's just look
at it, because I

1347
01:00:46,030 --> 01:00:47,100
know that we've been--

1348
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,044
So today was the
palm oil case study,

1349
01:00:56,044 --> 01:01:02,030
so we have-- what do we have?

1350
01:01:02,030 --> 01:01:04,100
Homework?

1351
01:01:04,100 --> 01:01:06,284
I think next week you
guys are sort of--

1352
01:01:06,284 --> 01:01:07,200
does anyone else know?

1353
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,366
I think you're off the hook
for something next week.

1354
01:01:09,366 --> 01:01:12,240
It's-- oh, you have something?

1355
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:12,740
OK.

1356
01:01:12,740 --> 01:01:13,490
Well, that's good.

1357
01:01:13,490 --> 01:01:14,990
I wanted to-- oh, OK.

1358
01:01:14,990 --> 01:01:15,790
Deliverable-- OK.

1359
01:01:15,790 --> 01:01:16,789
You're not off the hook.

1360
01:01:16,789 --> 01:01:18,920
I'm sorry.

1361
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:24,540
Project deliverable number--
yes, one week from today,

1362
01:01:24,540 --> 01:01:27,160
and then we're going
to make that-- so we're

1363
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:28,350
going to do a 10 AM.

1364
01:01:28,350 --> 01:01:29,787
Everyone OK with
this so we know?

1365
01:01:29,787 --> 01:01:31,370
Do we have a due
date already on that?

1366
01:01:31,370 --> 01:01:33,876
No.

1367
01:01:33,876 --> 01:01:35,500
AUDIENCE: It's already
on the schedule.

1368
01:01:35,500 --> 01:01:36,416
ALEXIS BATEMAN: It is?

1369
01:01:36,416 --> 01:01:37,991
OK.

1370
01:01:37,991 --> 01:01:38,490
All right.

1371
01:01:38,490 --> 01:01:42,279
So just plan for that,
that'll be your homework.

1372
01:01:42,279 --> 01:01:44,570
So next week, we're going to
have Environmental Defense

1373
01:01:44,570 --> 01:01:47,566
Fund, so make sure you guys
get here bright and early.

1374
01:01:47,566 --> 01:01:49,440
Well, not bright and
early, in the afternoon.

1375
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:50,470
But--

1376
01:01:50,470 --> 01:01:52,904
AUDIENCE: For the
lecture on the 30th,

1377
01:01:52,904 --> 01:01:56,760
we have Noelle Selin, who's a
professor in the Engineering

1378
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:57,950
Systems division.

1379
01:01:57,950 --> 01:01:59,950
There may be some reading
to go along with that,

1380
01:01:59,950 --> 01:02:01,515
just to prepare for it.

1381
01:02:01,515 --> 01:02:03,265
And we'll post those
in the announcements.

1382
01:02:03,265 --> 01:02:06,314
She's putting that together,
so we'll let you know.

1383
01:02:06,314 --> 01:02:07,730
ALEXIS BATEMAN:
Yeah, so just make

1384
01:02:07,730 --> 01:02:09,520
sure to check Stellar
in the next week.

1385
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:12,451
So you'll have the deliverable
and some others readings.

1386
01:02:12,451 --> 01:02:12,950
All right.

1387
01:02:12,950 --> 01:02:14,140
Thanks, guys.

1388
01:02:14,140 --> 01:02:16,070
See you guys on Monday.