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So the idea is
that if English is

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more of a creole
than Haitian creole,

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then why is the term creole to
only creole languages, right?

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That's a very valid question.

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And nowadays in Haiti
and also in Mauritius--

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I don't know whether
you're aware of this debate

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in Mauritius.

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People ask, why do we call
Mauritian creole, the creole?

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Why don't we just
call it Mauritian?

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Why don't want we just call
Haitian Creole Haitian?

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And so, as a
linguist, might take,

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when I'm being
asked that question

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is that-- well, the people
who speak the language,

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most of them call it Creole.

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So who am I, as a
linguist, to say,

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no, you won't call it Haitian.

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You see, because we have a
basic principle in linguistics,

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at least in when you consider
the sense of linguistics,

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it's supposed to be descriptive,
not supposed to prescribe--

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to tell people, no,
this is what you say.

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You're supposed to
report what we say.

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And I have a little
anecdote when it comes to--

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because people feel
that the term is

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negative-- that
the term, creole,

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because it's been used to
refer to lesser languages,

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it's best to get rid of it.

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And now as someone brought up--

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I don't know who
asked that question.

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So as someone brought up,
since we know at least

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we can claim that we have
evidence that English,

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in terms of its structures--
in terms of its history,

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might be more of a creole
than Haitian Creole.

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So the creole doesn't
make sense if you

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think of Creole as
a structural term,

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but the point here is that--

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so the word creole
means different things

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to different people.

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So in Haiti, if someone
called the language Creole,

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they don't think of Bickerton.

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They don't care about Bickerton.

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They didn't even know
who Bickerton is.

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They don't know
who McWhorter is.

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They don't know who,
you know, [INAUDIBLE]

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or these other linguists who
say all these ugly things

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about creole languages.

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Like, they don't care if that's
what they call the languages,

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and they're happy with the term.

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So for them, the term
has changed meaning.

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The term means just,
this is my language.

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The same way with words like--

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let's say the word neg.

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OK, so this is the word
that actually, you know--

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in Haiti, we have
this word, neg.

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Now where does it come from?

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It comes from the French negge.

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Now, the French negge, you can
probably-- so this is Haitian

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creole.

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This is French.

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Now you can tell
that, well, this

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is connected to Negro, right?

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Now in the movie that we
talked about many times,

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I Am Not Your Negro, you
can see that the term

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Negro can be seen as having
some negative connotation.

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It's not positive, right?

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But guess what?

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In Haiti, the term
neg is positive.

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You see?

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Like, I can call you
[HAITIAN SPEECH] you know,

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you might--

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well, I wouldn't say it--

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well, exactly, it's
you're my negro, right?

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But it doesn't mean
there's something

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negative about calling someone--

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like, if you were to live in
Haiti yourself-- you know,

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you're a white person--

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after a couple of years, my
people might call you neg.

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You see, you become neg,
and here, the term neg just

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means person.

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You know, human?

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You're human.

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You see?

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So in Haiti, the
term neg, although it

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derives from negge, which can
be perceived as being negative,

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it's become just a noun
that refers to human being.

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In fact, we saw that-- in
fact, we'll go back to that.

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Dessaline, himself, said that in
Haiti now, after independence,

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we're all neg.

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We're all negroes even
if you have white skin.

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That was 1805, right.

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Dessaline told all Haitians
that legally, everyone in Haiti,

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we're independent.

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We've established our
freedom of sovereignty.

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Everyone is black whether
you're white, whether you're

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Polish, whether--

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since you live in
Haiti, you're black.

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And that was actually
quite forward, right.

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He was post-modern.

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He understood that race
was not biological--

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that race was a
political concept.

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From the same perspective,
one could say, well,

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creole in Haiti means language.

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It's my language, so you know?

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And then there are
groups like on Facebook.

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There's a group
called Kreyolofoni--

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you know, Kreyolofoni, the
claim that we can look at all

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Kreyolofoni,
Kreyo-Lo-Fo-Ni, right.

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So the root here is
Kreyol, and then they use--

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it's like
francophonie-- you know,

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this French linguistic
culture empire.

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It's well, let's do our own
and talk about Kreyolofoni,

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because we believe
that we from Mauritius,

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Seychelles, from
[INAUDIBLE],, from Martinique,

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from Guadalupe, from Guyane,
we all speak that language

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that we call Creole, and we
share historical concerns

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interests in common.

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So let's call create
this Kreyolofoni

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that will make us stronger.

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AUDIENCE: What is the
language of the [INAUDIBLE]??

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Like, what do
people [INAUDIBLE]??

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MICHEL DEGRAFF:
Actually, interestingly,

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you should go to
the Facebook page.

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Do that, because they have
interesting recordings

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of different--

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like, people from Guadulupe,
people from Martinique,

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Gauguin, Mauritius
speaking the creole.

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They even have
Christian [INAUDIBLE],,

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which is this famous French
politician know from Vienne--

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a black woman race
drawn very eloquent.

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They recorded her speaking
Guianese Creole, Gwiyan**.

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You see?

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And then you can
understand them.

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You know, I can--

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when I went to
Mauritius, I could

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speak Creole in Mauritius, and
people could understand me.

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I could understand Mauritians
speaking Creole, so there is

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some evidence to Kreyolofoni--

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that there is a certain--

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there's some level of
mutual understanding.

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AUDIENCE: So that kind
colonized which countries,

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because [INAUDIBLE] talked
about the substrates?

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MICHEL DEGRAFF: The
[INAUDIBLE],, yeah.

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Yeah.

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AUDIENCE: Would that be
like of our practice?

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MICHEL DEGRAFF:
Definitely, you're right.

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You're right.

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But it's thanks to the
French that we have this--

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it's what you call
solidarity, right?

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But, you know, it's history.

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00:06:10,103 --> 00:06:11,738
You know, you can
either use it for you

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00:06:11,738 --> 00:06:13,206
or use it against you, right.

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00:06:13,206 --> 00:06:14,807
In this case, you're
saying, well, we

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00:06:14,807 --> 00:06:18,077
have this mutual,
common interest

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00:06:18,077 --> 00:06:21,347
based on our similar languages,
and let's call it Kreyolofoni,

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and let's turn it into
a political power.

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It's very idealistic,
but, you know, why not?

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00:06:29,188 --> 00:06:32,425
AUDIENCE: So what about like
not describing it, like, people,

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00:06:32,425 --> 00:06:35,361
but what about within
linguists, using the term

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00:06:35,361 --> 00:06:39,966
creole to classify
languages that originated

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00:06:39,966 --> 00:06:43,669
through a colonization process?

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00:06:43,669 --> 00:06:46,239
Like, should that
space stay the same?

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00:06:46,239 --> 00:06:48,541
MICHEL DEGRAFF: Well, no,
because now in science,

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00:06:48,541 --> 00:06:50,176
you can read the
final terms, right?

163
00:06:50,176 --> 00:06:51,077
So this is different.

164
00:06:51,077 --> 00:06:52,845
So when you're
doing science, it's

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00:06:52,845 --> 00:06:55,448
like when, you know-- so
H2O, water, for a chemist

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is not water for a gardener.

167
00:06:58,985 --> 00:07:03,189
So a gardener will use
water to sprinkle flowers

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00:07:03,189 --> 00:07:05,925
without thinking about
the structure of water,

169
00:07:05,925 --> 00:07:07,660
but if you're a
chemist, the word water

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00:07:07,660 --> 00:07:09,362
has a different meaning
for you, and you

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00:07:09,362 --> 00:07:11,931
might want to define what you
mean by water in that case.

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So it's just in linguistics, I
think that you can say, well,

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I'm going to use creole
with a particular sense.

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And for me, it's just so--

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you know, I'm going to
point to these languages

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00:07:22,942 --> 00:07:25,445
with the people call who
them creole, who speak them,

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and I'm going to use
the name that they use.

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00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:28,748
But I'm not going
to assume that it

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means something similar for
all creole languages, you see?