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MICHEL DEGRAFF: I
think it's a nice topic

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to end this semester, because
in a way, it brings together,

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I think, some of the
main threads that we've

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through this semester.

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But also, in fact, the
last point of the text,

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alliteration I can sense my
point to wait into the future.

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00:00:40,006 --> 00:00:46,012
So without further ado, we have
Lorraine, Will, and Cynthia.

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00:00:46,012 --> 00:00:50,583
GUEST SPEAKER: So this is
our presentation on language

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00:00:50,583 --> 00:00:52,252
resistance and liberation.

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00:00:52,252 --> 00:00:53,653
Welcome to the
last day of class.

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00:00:53,653 --> 00:00:57,657
Congratulations (CHUCKLING)
for getting this far.

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00:00:57,657 --> 00:01:00,660
So as the road map, we're
going to go through first

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00:01:00,660 --> 00:01:02,829
"Rethinking Literacy,
A Dialogue,"

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00:01:02,829 --> 00:01:04,431
the piece by Freire and Macedo.

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00:01:04,431 --> 00:01:05,083
Macedo?

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00:01:05,083 --> 00:01:06,499
MICHEL DEGRAFF:
Freire and Macedo.

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GUEST SPEAKER: Macedo?

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00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:08,158
MICHEL DEGRAFF: Macedo.

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00:01:08,158 --> 00:01:09,269
GUEST SPEAKER: Macedo.

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00:01:09,269 --> 00:01:11,685
And then we're going to look
at the "Literacy and Critical

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Pedagogy" piece, and then end
with the MIT Haiti initiatives.

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GUEST SPEAKER: OK.

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00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,982
So this is just a little bit
of a background on the writers

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of the first two pieces.

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00:01:24,818 --> 00:01:27,821
Both of them are educators
in critical pedagogy.

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00:01:27,821 --> 00:01:35,328
And one is from Brazil, and
one is Cape Verdean-American.

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GUEST SPEAKER: So
in the first piece,

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Freire mentions the premise--
the main premises of culture,

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and I think that
these are really

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00:01:43,136 --> 00:01:45,271
important to keep in mind,
because this is a really

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00:01:45,271 --> 00:01:49,709
interesting and, I think,
powerful way to frame culture.

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00:01:49,709 --> 00:01:53,313
The first one is that cultural
processes are intimately

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00:01:53,313 --> 00:01:56,316
connected with social relations,
especially with class relations

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and class formations,
with sexual divisions,

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00:01:58,884 --> 00:02:01,287
with racial structuring
of social relations,

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00:02:01,287 --> 00:02:05,792
and with age oppressions
as a form of dependency.

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00:02:05,792 --> 00:02:07,794
Got it? [chuckling]

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00:02:07,794 --> 00:02:08,794
OK.

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The second one,
culture involves power

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and helps to produce asymmetries
in the abilities of individuals

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and social groups to define
and realize their needs.

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00:02:17,437 --> 00:02:19,739
And third one, culture
is neither autonomous

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nor an externally
determined field,

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but a site of social
difficulties and struggles.

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Those ideas are really
important to keep in mind,

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because this paper
also raises the idea--

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I know it is a
social field, which

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is kind of the combination
of all of the beliefs, myths,

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aspirations, hopes of a part
of a society, of a culture,

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and so it includes things
such as why racial hierarchies

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exist, to why sexual
divisions exist,

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and like what roles gender
people play in a society.

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And it's really important
to keep that in mind,

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because if you're able
to keep that in mind,

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then you're able to think
critically about that.

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And through the critical
process of engaging with it,

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you're able to change
the social field.

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And so I think that
that's important,

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because even though
this paper raises

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a lot of really powerful
ideas, it's still not perfect.

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So one of the
quotes of this paper

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is, "Literacy's oral
dimension is important,

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even if it takes place
in a culture, like that

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of the United States, whose
memory is predominantly

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written, not oral,
like that of Africa."

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Africa is not
(LAUGHING) country.

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And so something like that is
also part of the social field,

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and would make it
into this paper.

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Because even though Freire and
Macedo are thinking critically

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about this, they
are not engaging

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with the full reality of
cultural objectivity and being

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subjects within that.

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GUEST SPEAKER: Yeah.

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So in the next
article, Paulo Freire

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talks about the use of language
as a form of resistance.

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And he first starts
talking about how

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the current traditional methods
in literacy how they tend

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to ignore the
importance of language

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in a person's education.

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And he bases a lot of his
theories on his experiences.

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And from the second quote he
says that, "The sad reality

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is that while
education in Portuguese

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provides access to positions
of political and economic power

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for the higher echelon
of African society,

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it screens out the
majority of the masses, who

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fail to learn
Portuguese well enough

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to acquire the necessary
literacy skills for social,

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economic, and
political advancement."

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00:04:43,582 --> 00:04:47,831
And you definitely-- from the
way that he mentions this,

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you could definitely see
a lot of like correlations

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between what's going on
around the world and currently

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in the United States.

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And you could definitely
see that the 1%

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usually have the most
control over things,

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and that they usually tends to
drive how policies are made.

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But the fact is that
when a person is taught

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in their native language, they
tend to learn things better

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and comprehend things faster.

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And can we go to the next slide?

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There's usually backlash when
it comes to different languages

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taught in schools.

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For example, in
the US, people say

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that students should learn
how to speak standard American

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English.

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But when it comes to providing
these sort of opportunities

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to minority groups of,
I guess for instance,

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like students of
color, there is usually

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some racial tensions
that develop

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that make minority
students feel inferior.

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For example, there was
an article mentioned

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of like recently, like
March of 2017, that

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talked about a robotics
team that recently had won

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the challenge, and the fact
that after they had won

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the students-- or I
guess people in the crowd

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started screaming
at them and telling

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them to go back to Mexico.

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And so this form of like
demeaning commentary

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tends to drive the dropout
rates of minority groups,

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and all of this
tends to contribute

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to like the prison-- sorry,
the school to prison pipeline.

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As you can see in
the infographic,

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it gives a lot of
percentages talking

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about this sort of issue.

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You can see in the
bottom, it says

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that 68% of all males in
state and federal prison they

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do not have a high
school diploma.

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And this tends to be-- gives
statistics on students.

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And all of this tends
to stem from the fact

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that minority
students do not have

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the same access to education
as the elite part of society.

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And from personal experience, I
can definitely relate to this.

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I went to a school about like an
hour and a half from my house,

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and I definitely did have a lot
of good role models growing up.

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But were definitely students
around my neighborhood

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that didn't have the same
access to the same opportunities

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that I did.

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Some of them did drop
out to start working.

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Others were influenced by
gangs around my neighborhood.

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And you could definitely--
things are definitely

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getting better, but
things could definitely

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be improved from an emancipatory
literacy approach, which

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is what Paulo Freire mentions.

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Yeah.

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So in emancipatory
literacy, this

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involves using the
language of the people,

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rather than the elites.

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It teaches students to
accept their experiences

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and their culture.

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And this moves from the
world of objectivity

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to the world of subjectivity,
where individuals learn

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to accept themselves
for who they are,

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rather than feel like
they're a victim of society.

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And Paulo Freire does
mention that achieving

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emancipatory literacy is
hard, but it's not impossible.

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And now I'll-- and so Lorraine
wants to talk about a few

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examples of how this
is being used today.

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So considering specifically
the case of Haiti--

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which Michel works a lot on,
the MIT Haiti initiative--

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virtually all of the schooling
in both K through 12 education

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and then in higher education
is done in French, and not

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in Kreyol.

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But the problem is that most
people only speak Kreyol

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fluently, so like 95% or
so, and very few people

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speak French fluently, at all.

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So when you go through school,
and everything is in a language

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that you don't
understand, how are you

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supposed to be able to actually
get any of the education,

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00:08:49,295 --> 00:08:51,097
get any of this
social engagement,

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especially if
children are punished

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for speaking Kreyol in school.

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And they can't interact
with each other,

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can't ask questions,
can't gather

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any of the information
that's coming at them.

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So it's based on this false
belief and really outdated

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belief about the
hierarchy of languages,

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about which languages are
created or are younger,

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or anything like that, and that
Kreyol isn't developed enough

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to be able to be used for
technical language for STEM

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education to have anything
translated into Kreyol.

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And part of that is
saying that like Kreyol

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isn't widespread enough,
even though Kreyol

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has almost 10 million speakers.

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Finnish has only about
5.5 million speakers,

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and yet in Finland all of that
education is done in Finnish.

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And people have-- studies have
found that, in Finland, kids

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are much better equipped
to be able to learn

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a second language, and to
go into higher education

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and gather all of these
like technical studies,

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because all of their
education is done in Finnish.

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And over at IAP, I was doing
MISTI GTL in the Catalonia

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region, in Spain, and there
Catalan also has a little

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under 10 million speakers.

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But in Catalonia all of the
education is in Catalan,

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which made it difficult for me
as like a "Spanish speaker"--

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like not even fluent, but trying
to speak Spanish speaker--

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to be able to
teach the students.

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But they had such
a better experience

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with all of their
textbooks in Catalan

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all of their computer software.

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So I was trying to teach
them Inkscape and Gimp,

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00:10:28,928 --> 00:10:30,696
but everything was is
(CHUCKLING) Catalan,

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and I just couldn't understand
like even how to open a window.

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So they taught me
a lot about this.

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And they-- all of
them speak Catalan,

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00:10:38,771 --> 00:10:41,240
and Spanish, and
English, and then they

213
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,443
can like learn German or
French on the side, as well.

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So all of them, because
their initial education

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00:10:47,580 --> 00:10:49,248
K through 12 and then
higher education,

216
00:10:49,248 --> 00:10:52,118
if they want it to be,
is in Catalan, then

217
00:10:52,118 --> 00:10:53,853
they can learn all
of these other things

218
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just as well as we do like
in English, which is mostly

219
00:10:58,691 --> 00:11:03,329
our one and kind of only
language in the United States.

220
00:11:03,329 --> 00:11:04,196
Yeah.

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00:11:04,196 --> 00:11:05,898
So that was my experience.

222
00:11:05,898 --> 00:11:11,170
And what-- a school that is like
a really good model in Haiti

223
00:11:11,170 --> 00:11:12,672
is the LKM School.

224
00:11:12,672 --> 00:11:15,307
I didn't know how to pronounce
it in Kreyol, so it's LKM.

225
00:11:15,307 --> 00:11:17,877
It's a K through 10
school in a rural part

226
00:11:17,877 --> 00:11:20,913
on an island of Haiti,
and their education

227
00:11:20,913 --> 00:11:23,983
is starting to be in this
model of all Kreyol education,

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00:11:23,983 --> 00:11:25,985
trying to teach all
of these subjects, all

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00:11:25,985 --> 00:11:27,720
of the technical
terms in Kreyol.

230
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,989
And the students are
learning much better

231
00:11:29,989 --> 00:11:33,125
than the rest of the students
in Haiti, who's schooling

232
00:11:33,125 --> 00:11:38,297
is French and who only 10%
graduate from high school.

233
00:11:38,297 --> 00:11:40,132
So the linguistic
apartheid part of this

234
00:11:40,132 --> 00:11:43,069
is that, when you teach somebody
in a language they don't

235
00:11:43,069 --> 00:11:45,337
understand, you
prevent them from being

236
00:11:45,337 --> 00:11:48,007
able to move into different
socioeconomic classes

237
00:11:48,007 --> 00:11:50,242
to attain the education
and the success

238
00:11:50,242 --> 00:11:54,080
that they should be able to.

239
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,148
And this all leads to
the MIT Haiti initiative

240
00:11:56,148 --> 00:11:59,585
that Michel started
here between MIT and all

241
00:11:59,585 --> 00:12:01,887
the Haitian education systems.

242
00:12:01,887 --> 00:12:07,893
So a couple of their main points
are to teach educators in Haiti

243
00:12:07,893 --> 00:12:10,096
that teaching in Kreyol
is perfectly fine,

244
00:12:10,096 --> 00:12:12,264
that it is actually
better for the students,

245
00:12:12,264 --> 00:12:14,600
that it gives them
more opportunities,

246
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,002
and that STEM and
technical subjects

247
00:12:17,002 --> 00:12:18,637
can be taught in Kreyol.

248
00:12:18,637 --> 00:12:21,273
So a lot of the
worries or concerns

249
00:12:21,273 --> 00:12:24,744
are that like Kreyol doesn't
have words for these languages.

250
00:12:24,744 --> 00:12:26,245
We didn't have
words for a computer

251
00:12:26,245 --> 00:12:28,514
either up until when
they were created.

252
00:12:28,514 --> 00:12:32,118
A lot of other languages borrow
words from other languages.

253
00:12:32,118 --> 00:12:35,454
So I learned Japanese,
and in Japanese there's

254
00:12:35,454 --> 00:12:37,289
this lovely thing called
[speaking japanese]

255
00:12:37,289 --> 00:12:40,286
where you just grab words
from other languages.

256
00:12:40,286 --> 00:12:41,994
So if you don't know
how to pronounce it,

257
00:12:41,994 --> 00:12:44,230
you kind of like make
it sound like it,

258
00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:46,632
and oftentimes, it is
what has been borrowed.

259
00:12:46,632 --> 00:12:49,835
So for example, bread
is pan, from German.

260
00:12:49,835 --> 00:12:51,504
And all of these
other languages have

261
00:12:51,504 --> 00:12:53,806
words borrowed from
other languages,

262
00:12:53,806 --> 00:12:55,641
and that's what
globalization does.

263
00:12:55,641 --> 00:12:58,377
So the same thing should be able
to happen with Kreyol and STEM

264
00:12:58,377 --> 00:12:59,478
learning.

265
00:12:59,478 --> 00:13:01,514
And the really good
results of this

266
00:13:01,514 --> 00:13:04,116
are that they affirm students'
cultures and backgrounds,

267
00:13:04,116 --> 00:13:07,219
and their own upbringings, and
how the society actually works,

268
00:13:07,219 --> 00:13:10,556
as opposed to a colonial
oppressive society.

269
00:13:10,556 --> 00:13:12,892
And it equalizes students
being able to have

270
00:13:12,892 --> 00:13:15,761
more social mobility, and
to attain what they want

271
00:13:15,761 --> 00:13:20,699
and what they should be able to.

272
00:13:20,699 --> 00:13:22,735
GUEST SPEAKER: So
to kind of tie this

273
00:13:22,735 --> 00:13:27,439
back to what we can do to stay
woke, with regards to literacy,

274
00:13:27,439 --> 00:13:29,108
I think it's important
to remember that,

275
00:13:29,108 --> 00:13:30,943
"language is a mediating
force of knowledge,

276
00:13:30,943 --> 00:13:32,711
but it is also
knowledge itself."

277
00:13:32,711 --> 00:13:37,116
And so one approach
is for groups

278
00:13:37,116 --> 00:13:39,752
to kind of come together
and create a language that

279
00:13:39,752 --> 00:13:42,021
describes their experience
amongst themselves,

280
00:13:42,021 --> 00:13:44,523
and then to share that language
and to share that experience

281
00:13:44,523 --> 00:13:47,326
in their own language.

282
00:13:47,326 --> 00:13:50,429
And I think that that is one way
that we can start breaking away

283
00:13:50,429 --> 00:13:57,136
from the kind of putting
standard English on a pedestal,

284
00:13:57,136 --> 00:14:01,607
and can also kind of
validate other discourses,

285
00:14:01,607 --> 00:14:04,210
and other ways of being,
and of other just languages

286
00:14:04,210 --> 00:14:13,519
that kind of already exist in
the US and across the world.

287
00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:17,189
Questions.

288
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:18,991
How have our
understandings of literacy

289
00:14:18,991 --> 00:14:21,126
evolved in response
to the internet,

290
00:14:21,126 --> 00:14:22,928
unprecedented
global integration,

291
00:14:22,928 --> 00:14:25,798
and increased pressure
to preserve human rights?

292
00:14:25,798 --> 00:14:27,833
For example, what does
it mean that schools

293
00:14:27,833 --> 00:14:29,969
repress the development
of subjectivity,

294
00:14:29,969 --> 00:14:32,204
but do largely ensure literacy?

295
00:14:32,204 --> 00:14:33,706
How can modern
notions of literacy

296
00:14:33,706 --> 00:14:37,009
evolve to address the phenomena,
such as the proliferation

297
00:14:37,009 --> 00:14:38,410
of fake news?

298
00:14:38,410 --> 00:14:42,615
So if we're moving past literacy
as just the idea of being

299
00:14:42,615 --> 00:14:45,017
able to read, and
we are entering

300
00:14:45,017 --> 00:14:49,555
this new kind of this new
wave being defiantly pushed

301
00:14:49,555 --> 00:14:51,523
by the internet and the
influence of technology

302
00:14:51,523 --> 00:14:53,726
on the way we live,
literacy is coming

303
00:14:53,726 --> 00:14:56,996
to be a more critical
approach to life in the sense

304
00:14:56,996 --> 00:14:59,665
that fake news is
a thing, you know,

305
00:14:59,665 --> 00:15:02,401
and it's actually quite hard to
distinguish what news is really

306
00:15:02,401 --> 00:15:03,521
what news is fake.

307
00:15:03,521 --> 00:15:05,771
And the ability to do that,
having that critical lens,

308
00:15:05,771 --> 00:15:08,841
is maybe the next
evolution of literacy.

309
00:15:08,841 --> 00:15:14,867
So any ideas on that, I
guess, is the question.

310
00:15:14,867 --> 00:15:17,283
AUDIENCE: So I'm just gonna
answer the first part of this,

311
00:15:17,283 --> 00:15:19,985
because I'm not sure if I have
an answer for the next two.

312
00:15:19,985 --> 00:15:22,788
But something that
I think is kind of

313
00:15:22,788 --> 00:15:24,957
hilarious about like the
integration of the internet

314
00:15:24,957 --> 00:15:27,092
is that I think it's
simultaneously making us more

315
00:15:27,092 --> 00:15:29,128
literate and less literate.

316
00:15:29,128 --> 00:15:31,830
So like-- or like pressuring
you to be more literate.

317
00:15:31,830 --> 00:15:33,465
So "pressuring" you
to be more literate

318
00:15:33,465 --> 00:15:35,567
is like, now there's a bunch
of sources that you can read,

319
00:15:35,567 --> 00:15:37,150
and like now you can
be more educated,

320
00:15:37,150 --> 00:15:40,072
it's all open to the public
if you have a computer.

321
00:15:40,072 --> 00:15:41,707
And then there's also
like the pressure

322
00:15:41,707 --> 00:15:45,377
to speak English properly,
based off either, you know,

323
00:15:45,377 --> 00:15:48,380
like there's one viral video,
this old grandma screaming

324
00:15:48,380 --> 00:15:50,582
at this Hispanic woman
in IHOP because she

325
00:15:50,582 --> 00:15:52,551
was paying in Spanish,
or something like that.

326
00:15:52,551 --> 00:15:55,721
So like it puts pressure on
you to speak English correctly,

327
00:15:55,721 --> 00:15:58,424
and then meanwhile, because
of like things like Facebook

328
00:15:58,424 --> 00:16:00,459
and like any social
media, people

329
00:16:00,459 --> 00:16:05,097
like don't speak English
correctly, like typing,

330
00:16:05,097 --> 00:16:07,132
you know,
abbreviations and stuff

331
00:16:07,132 --> 00:16:09,268
that's acceptable in text,
but like meanwhile we're

332
00:16:09,268 --> 00:16:11,337
saying you should
speak English properly.

333
00:16:11,337 --> 00:16:14,540
So it's kind of a
weird dichotomy.

334
00:16:14,540 --> 00:16:16,208
GUEST SPEAKER: I'm
interested in the age

335
00:16:16,208 --> 00:16:19,211
implications of
what you just said,

336
00:16:19,211 --> 00:16:23,545
kind of aligning-- kind of
a critique towards the use

337
00:16:23,545 --> 00:16:26,485
of different varieties of
English with older generations

338
00:16:26,485 --> 00:16:29,054
and the use of nonstandard
varieties of English

339
00:16:29,054 --> 00:16:30,789
with younger generations.

340
00:16:30,789 --> 00:16:33,158
I'm interested in that.

341
00:16:33,158 --> 00:16:35,661
AUDIENCE: Yeah, I think--

342
00:16:35,661 --> 00:16:40,095
I mean, I guess like-- so like
there's a grandma that I know

343
00:16:40,095 --> 00:16:43,891
that's on Facebook, and like she
makes sure to type everything

344
00:16:43,891 --> 00:16:45,637
out, including punctuation.

345
00:16:45,637 --> 00:16:47,539
And like her Facebook
posts are longer

346
00:16:47,539 --> 00:16:51,010
and they're more like here's
a card, that type of thing.

347
00:16:51,010 --> 00:16:54,507
Whereas like my Facebook,
A, I'm just sharing things,

348
00:16:54,507 --> 00:16:56,215
but B, if I write
anything, it's probably

349
00:16:56,215 --> 00:16:58,550
not good, proper English.

350
00:16:58,550 --> 00:17:00,386
So I think it does
depend on your age group,

351
00:17:00,386 --> 00:17:03,689
but also like going back to the
original point of, you know,

352
00:17:03,689 --> 00:17:05,523
that grandma screaming
at the Hispanic woman

353
00:17:05,523 --> 00:17:08,794
in IHOP, like it's not just
like an older woman screaming

354
00:17:08,794 --> 00:17:10,429
because, you know,
she's more literate.

355
00:17:10,429 --> 00:17:12,765
Like there's also like
kids who think like, oh,

356
00:17:12,765 --> 00:17:14,933
you have to speak
English in here.

357
00:17:14,933 --> 00:17:18,637
So like there is still that
weirdness between like how

358
00:17:18,637 --> 00:17:21,006
older people act on Facebook,
and stuff like that.

359
00:17:21,006 --> 00:17:24,576
But I still think like the point
of, you know, pressuring people

360
00:17:24,576 --> 00:17:29,909
is regardless of age.

361
00:17:29,909 --> 00:17:31,450
AUDIENCE: I think
because we're gonna

362
00:17:31,450 --> 00:17:35,187
be talking about language,
which is dialect in this class,

363
00:17:35,187 --> 00:17:37,790
I would kind of risk
saying that we're

364
00:17:37,790 --> 00:17:40,092
kind of creating a new language
because of the internet

365
00:17:40,092 --> 00:17:42,327
with like all the
abbreviations and things.

366
00:17:42,327 --> 00:17:45,380
And there's the way-- the
push for speed and everything

367
00:17:45,380 --> 00:17:46,065
like that.

368
00:17:46,065 --> 00:17:48,867
So I think the reason
that older generations

369
00:17:48,867 --> 00:17:51,236
don't use it as much is
because they're not used to it,

370
00:17:51,236 --> 00:17:53,167
and they're in a different
frame of reference

371
00:17:53,167 --> 00:17:55,541
and they just haven't learned
this new dialect that we're

372
00:17:55,541 --> 00:17:57,242
starting to use.

373
00:17:57,242 --> 00:18:01,380
So I think that it's a
good thing, in a sense,

374
00:18:01,380 --> 00:18:03,615
but a lot of people who
want that standard American

375
00:18:03,615 --> 00:18:06,351
English are going to be
pushing us to go back to that,

376
00:18:06,351 --> 00:18:08,387
as opposed to using
the internet language.

377
00:18:08,387 --> 00:18:13,058
But going as far as our
changes in literacy because

378
00:18:13,058 --> 00:18:15,828
of the internet, like I didn't
know if the ending was satire,

379
00:18:15,828 --> 00:18:16,356
at first.

380
00:18:16,356 --> 00:18:18,397
Well, I just didn't know
that the ending existed.

381
00:18:18,397 --> 00:18:20,833
And then when I saw that, I
realized that that was satire.

382
00:18:20,833 --> 00:18:22,601
I think that nuance
like that is something

383
00:18:22,601 --> 00:18:24,770
that you miss especially
with the internet,

384
00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:28,540
because you can't really express
sarcasm very clearly over just

385
00:18:28,540 --> 00:18:29,186
plain text.

386
00:18:29,186 --> 00:18:31,477
And I think that's something
that we're like struggling

387
00:18:31,477 --> 00:18:35,814
with, because of the internet.

388
00:18:35,814 --> 00:18:37,382
AUDIENCE: But I
think that you said--

389
00:18:37,382 --> 00:18:38,784
you talked about The Onion.

390
00:18:38,784 --> 00:18:43,856
I think that shows like Stephen
Colbert or the Colbert Report,

391
00:18:43,856 --> 00:18:46,191
and shows like
that, show that we

392
00:18:46,191 --> 00:18:48,961
have been dealing with that
sort of satire language issue.

393
00:18:48,961 --> 00:18:50,629
Because for a long
time, people rushed

394
00:18:50,629 --> 00:18:54,032
[inaudible] didn't realize
that it was satire.

395
00:18:54,032 --> 00:18:57,436
So I think that we've
done this before,

396
00:18:57,436 --> 00:18:59,404
and it's sort of
a different cycle.

397
00:18:59,404 --> 00:19:03,695
Now it's on the net
instead of being TV.

398
00:19:03,695 --> 00:19:06,111
AUDIENCE: I wanted to bounce
off what you originally said.

399
00:19:06,111 --> 00:19:08,113
Like with like it's
not a bad thing

400
00:19:08,113 --> 00:19:09,648
that we're checking
the language,

401
00:19:09,648 --> 00:19:11,884
I agree with thi It's
kind of like [inaudible],

402
00:19:11,884 --> 00:19:13,185
as you mentioned.

403
00:19:13,185 --> 00:19:16,155
Do you think like there
are certain rules,

404
00:19:16,155 --> 00:19:17,890
like the way we type,
and like is there

405
00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:21,226
like a way to be literate like
with our new abbreviations?

406
00:19:21,226 --> 00:19:22,828
AUDIENCE: I think
there definitely is.

407
00:19:22,828 --> 00:19:27,266
Like for instance, punctuating
sentences with like LOL or ha

408
00:19:27,266 --> 00:19:27,785
ha.

409
00:19:27,785 --> 00:19:29,868
Like the beginning of the
end, where you put that.

410
00:19:29,868 --> 00:19:31,570
Using emojis to get
more emotion in it.

411
00:19:31,570 --> 00:19:34,642
Like there's definitely like
a science to it that we kind

412
00:19:34,642 --> 00:19:38,043
of fell into, but didn't
realize was [inaudible]..

413
00:19:38,043 --> 00:19:38,677
AUDIENCE: Yeah.

414
00:19:38,677 --> 00:19:39,611
OK, cool.

415
00:19:39,611 --> 00:19:44,716
I understand what you're saying.

416
00:19:44,716 --> 00:19:47,186
GUEST SPEAKER: My question
is, so knowing now

417
00:19:47,186 --> 00:19:49,321
that people grow up in
the type of literacy,

418
00:19:49,321 --> 00:19:52,090
whether it's traditional
or emancipatory,

419
00:19:52,090 --> 00:19:54,860
what are the pros and cons
of your type of literacy?

420
00:19:54,860 --> 00:19:58,664
And explain why we should
move towards or away

421
00:19:58,664 --> 00:20:08,140
from an emancipatory literacy.

422
00:20:08,140 --> 00:20:12,644
AUDIENCE: I think you all
gave some really great points

423
00:20:12,644 --> 00:20:17,082
towards moving to
emancipatory literacy.

424
00:20:17,082 --> 00:20:23,722
I mean, if it's helping people
learn, I don't see a down fall,

425
00:20:23,722 --> 00:20:29,394
especially because it's kind
of broadening their world view.

426
00:20:29,394 --> 00:20:32,397
A couple of presentations
ago, there were other students

427
00:20:32,397 --> 00:20:35,934
who were playing
jeopardy with AAE,

428
00:20:35,934 --> 00:20:39,238
and that was kind of like
broadening their worldview.

429
00:20:39,238 --> 00:20:40,706
Like even if you
went to the school

430
00:20:40,706 --> 00:20:44,843
and didn't speak AAE you were
learning about a new language

431
00:20:44,843 --> 00:20:46,478
that you weren't familiar with.

432
00:20:46,478 --> 00:20:49,248
And so they were able to do this
through the emancipatory sort

433
00:20:49,248 --> 00:20:50,048
literacy.

434
00:20:50,048 --> 00:20:51,383
MICHEL DEGRAFF: What's AAE?

435
00:20:51,383 --> 00:20:54,453
AUDIENCE: Oh,
African-American English.

436
00:20:54,453 --> 00:20:55,420
Sorry.

437
00:20:55,420 --> 00:21:05,449
Not AAPE.

438
00:21:05,449 --> 00:21:07,532
AUDIENCE: So kind of just
playing devil's advocate

439
00:21:07,532 --> 00:21:09,401
a little bit, I think--

440
00:21:09,401 --> 00:21:12,137
I guess one of the dangers
of emancipatory literacy

441
00:21:12,137 --> 00:21:15,274
might be kind of this
non-standardization

442
00:21:15,274 --> 00:21:17,576
like with issues like Common
Core and things like that.

443
00:21:17,576 --> 00:21:19,511
We kind of have an
educational system

444
00:21:19,511 --> 00:21:21,413
that's set up so that
everybody's kind of put

445
00:21:21,413 --> 00:21:24,116
on the same level,
to some extent.

446
00:21:24,116 --> 00:21:27,619
Like everybody has that same
kind of baseline education.

447
00:21:27,619 --> 00:21:29,855
But like with
emancipatory literacy,

448
00:21:29,855 --> 00:21:32,958
I think you're going to find
educational programs are more

449
00:21:32,958 --> 00:21:35,694
geared towards a specific
like cultural norms

450
00:21:35,694 --> 00:21:37,763
and things of that nature
related to whatever

451
00:21:37,763 --> 00:21:39,231
population it targets.

452
00:21:39,231 --> 00:21:42,567
So I wonder if that
could potentially

453
00:21:42,567 --> 00:21:44,665
produce a system in which
certain students, even

454
00:21:44,665 --> 00:21:47,167
though they're receiving
an education that is geared

455
00:21:47,167 --> 00:21:49,956
towards them, it's objectively
not that same quality

456
00:21:49,956 --> 00:21:53,962
of student who are receiving
more of a traditional

457
00:21:53,962 --> 00:21:58,183
There's the
approach. [inaudible]

458
00:21:58,183 --> 00:21:59,618
GUEST SPEAKER: I
want to push back

459
00:21:59,618 --> 00:22:02,087
on that just a little
bit, because I think

460
00:22:02,087 --> 00:22:05,857
that the standardized
approach to education

461
00:22:05,857 --> 00:22:08,627
is the approach that's
been taken with, you know,

462
00:22:08,627 --> 00:22:10,896
teach for a test
approach, and it's failed.

463
00:22:10,896 --> 00:22:12,497
It's been failing
for a while now,

464
00:22:12,497 --> 00:22:15,400
and I think that a lot of people
in education policy and even

465
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,469
just teachers are
recognizing that now.

466
00:22:17,469 --> 00:22:21,372
And I think that education--
emancipatory literacy gives us

467
00:22:21,372 --> 00:22:24,206
an interesting lens to think
about how to educate people

468
00:22:24,206 --> 00:22:25,544
so that they can learn.

469
00:22:25,544 --> 00:22:28,347
And I think maybe
another place you

470
00:22:28,347 --> 00:22:30,015
can start kind of
investing energy

471
00:22:30,015 --> 00:22:32,284
is thinking of ways in
society that we can value

472
00:22:32,284 --> 00:22:35,620
those different ways of
knowing and being and learning,

473
00:22:35,620 --> 00:22:38,357
so that it's not just,
you went to college,

474
00:22:38,357 --> 00:22:40,826
so you deserve to be paid a
lot of money kind of thing,

475
00:22:40,826 --> 00:22:44,096
and it's a, oh you can
build a table from scratch.

476
00:22:44,096 --> 00:22:47,466
How do you get paid to do that?

477
00:22:47,466 --> 00:22:49,101
AUDIENCE: Where do
you think MIT falls

478
00:22:49,101 --> 00:22:53,505
on the spectrum of like
emancipatory literacy?

479
00:22:53,505 --> 00:22:54,873
[laughing]

480
00:22:54,873 --> 00:22:58,009
GUEST SPEAKER: I think MIT
is way far on the tradition.

481
00:22:58,009 --> 00:23:00,579
MIT is the Alt right of
traditional literacy, I think.

482
00:23:00,579 --> 00:23:06,485
[laughing] I just
think that there are--

483
00:23:06,485 --> 00:23:08,453
I think that the
immense pressure that

484
00:23:08,453 --> 00:23:11,056
falls on students, just on
students physical bodies,

485
00:23:11,056 --> 00:23:13,091
is definitely a symptom
of a larger problem.

486
00:23:13,091 --> 00:23:15,160
And for me, the fact
that that symptom is not

487
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,197
enough of an impetus to
change, is heartbreaking.

488
00:23:19,197 --> 00:23:20,465
Because I think that--

489
00:23:20,465 --> 00:23:24,068
I didn't come to college
expecting it to be the best

490
00:23:24,068 --> 00:23:27,285
four years of my life, but I
didn't come here also expecting

491
00:23:27,285 --> 00:23:30,316
to just suffer.
[laughing] And so I

492
00:23:30,316 --> 00:23:31,691
think that there's
definitely got

493
00:23:31,691 --> 00:23:36,014
to be a way where I can bloom,
can reach my best potential.

494
00:23:36,014 --> 00:23:37,048
And I love learning.

495
00:23:37,048 --> 00:23:38,850
I love-- like I love
school, you know,

496
00:23:38,850 --> 00:23:44,322
and the fact that I have
just kept running up

497
00:23:44,322 --> 00:23:48,126
against the institution, I
think, as a creative person,

498
00:23:48,126 --> 00:23:51,897
has made me kind of step
back and think again

499
00:23:51,897 --> 00:23:54,766
about emancipatory literacy
and how I can do that after.

500
00:23:54,766 --> 00:23:57,035
MICHEL DEGRAFF: So I have a
question for you, Cynthia.

501
00:23:57,035 --> 00:23:58,937
So given what you
just said, how would

502
00:23:58,937 --> 00:24:01,940
you-- so if you were
to be MIT's president,

503
00:24:01,940 --> 00:24:03,241
what would you change?

504
00:24:03,241 --> 00:24:07,646
What-- how would you make
it better more emancipatory?

505
00:24:07,646 --> 00:24:10,482
Keeping in mind that
there are certain goals

506
00:24:10,482 --> 00:24:12,284
that you have to reach
in terms of, say,

507
00:24:12,284 --> 00:24:14,519
chemical engineering,
if you're a chemist,

508
00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:15,620
how would you do that?

509
00:24:15,620 --> 00:24:17,823
How would you advise
administration be better

510
00:24:17,823 --> 00:24:18,792
on that score?

511
00:24:18,792 --> 00:24:20,625
CYNTHIA: I think very
first thing I would do

512
00:24:20,625 --> 00:24:23,662
is have people who are
more interested in research

513
00:24:23,662 --> 00:24:24,763
not be professors.

514
00:24:24,763 --> 00:24:26,097
So the ones who are
interested in research

515
00:24:26,097 --> 00:24:27,299
should be doing
research full time,

516
00:24:27,299 --> 00:24:28,533
and the people who are
interested in teaching

517
00:24:28,533 --> 00:24:29,568
should teach.

518
00:24:29,568 --> 00:24:34,706
Because I think that that
gives like-- that gives people

519
00:24:34,706 --> 00:24:37,248
more impetus just to
connect with their students

520
00:24:37,248 --> 00:24:39,265
and actually get to
know them, and I think

521
00:24:39,265 --> 00:24:40,937
in that kind of
environment, you would

522
00:24:40,937 --> 00:24:43,658
foster like a safer, healthier
environment for learning.

523
00:24:43,658 --> 00:24:45,116
Whereas if you have
a professor who

524
00:24:45,116 --> 00:24:48,053
is more interested in
winning the Nobel Prize,

525
00:24:48,053 --> 00:24:51,756
like what are you-- what do
you do coming up against that?

526
00:24:51,756 --> 00:24:56,127
I also would have MIT think
very, very hard about where

527
00:24:56,127 --> 00:24:57,262
the funding is coming from?

528
00:24:57,262 --> 00:24:58,457
What it's going to?

529
00:24:58,457 --> 00:25:00,665
And how that kind of fits
in the global system, where

530
00:25:00,665 --> 00:25:03,368
MIT as an institution fits
into the global system,

531
00:25:03,368 --> 00:25:07,138
as kind of not only
an institution that

532
00:25:07,138 --> 00:25:09,608
does propel you to a
higher class, but kind of

533
00:25:09,608 --> 00:25:14,279
does that at the expense
of a lot of other people

534
00:25:14,279 --> 00:25:16,715
and systems across the globe
even if it's not directly

535
00:25:16,715 --> 00:25:17,916
in the area.

536
00:25:17,916 --> 00:25:20,185
So I think that being more
critical and intentional

537
00:25:20,185 --> 00:25:23,355
about our values, and
also maybe adding soul

538
00:25:23,355 --> 00:25:26,758
to the end of that--
end of the that motto.

539
00:25:26,758 --> 00:25:27,459
But--

540
00:25:27,459 --> 00:25:28,660
MICHEL DEGRAFF: OK, OK.

541
00:25:28,660 --> 00:25:31,363
CYNTHIA: Yeah.

542
00:25:31,363 --> 00:25:33,365
MICHEL DEGRAFF: Attention
to the third question.

543
00:25:33,365 --> 00:25:34,966
Thank you.

544
00:25:34,966 --> 00:25:37,669
AUDIENCE: The last question is,
from your personal experiences,

545
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:40,071
or what you've
seen or read about,

546
00:25:40,071 --> 00:25:43,008
how do you think we can
improve students' experiences

547
00:25:43,008 --> 00:25:44,876
and confidence through
intentional language

548
00:25:44,876 --> 00:25:46,244
use in schools?

549
00:25:46,244 --> 00:25:51,082
Like what mottoes do you think
are working, or would work?

550
00:25:51,082 --> 00:25:52,951
TEACHING ASSISTANT: Dana?

551
00:25:52,951 --> 00:25:55,987
AUDIENCE: Well there's a model,
the only one of it's kind,

552
00:25:55,987 --> 00:26:00,258
it's in Canada, it's a Mohawk
language immersion school

553
00:26:00,258 --> 00:26:05,397
that's K through six, but it
struggles to secure funding

554
00:26:05,397 --> 00:26:08,166
because it also doesn't
follow a standardized Canadian

555
00:26:08,166 --> 00:26:09,568
curriculum.

556
00:26:09,568 --> 00:26:12,904
In fact the community has sort
of decolonized the curriculum,

557
00:26:12,904 --> 00:26:16,308
and they teach history, for
instance not Canadian history,

558
00:26:16,308 --> 00:26:19,644
they teach Mohawk
history, and it's

559
00:26:19,644 --> 00:26:22,347
been really affirming
for children

560
00:26:22,347 --> 00:26:25,116
in the community,
Especially a community that

561
00:26:25,116 --> 00:26:28,219
has its own struggles
with language preservation

562
00:26:28,219 --> 00:26:31,122
and revitalization, and
passing on the language

563
00:26:31,122 --> 00:26:33,358
to continued generations.

564
00:26:33,358 --> 00:26:36,861
Especially after a history
of residential schooling

565
00:26:36,861 --> 00:26:41,232
that-- main aim was a cultural
and linguistic genocide

566
00:26:41,232 --> 00:26:43,101
of these people.

567
00:26:43,101 --> 00:26:47,606
So this is a great model,
but it's funded entirely

568
00:26:47,606 --> 00:26:50,342
by community fundraisers
and every year

569
00:26:50,342 --> 00:26:53,278
struggles with staying open.

570
00:26:53,278 --> 00:26:55,647
And it's never certain
that it will be there

571
00:26:55,647 --> 00:26:56,681
in the next school year.

572
00:26:56,681 --> 00:26:59,184
But it seems to have
had a really, really

573
00:26:59,184 --> 00:27:04,289
a positive impact on the
Mohawk community in Canada.

574
00:27:04,289 --> 00:27:09,294
And so programs like that I
think need to now be funded,

575
00:27:09,294 --> 00:27:14,265
and that involves challenging
our federal and local

576
00:27:14,265 --> 00:27:19,037
requirements for funding, and to
do that we need to interrogate

577
00:27:19,037 --> 00:27:22,474
what value there is in
the curriculum we have

578
00:27:22,474 --> 00:27:26,111
standardized, and why that
is considered objectively

579
00:27:26,111 --> 00:27:29,481
the standard that should
impart the best learning

580
00:27:29,481 --> 00:27:43,595
experience upon students?

581
00:27:43,595 --> 00:27:44,896
MICHEL DEGRAFF: Go ahead Colin.

582
00:27:44,896 --> 00:27:46,498
AUDIENCE: So bouncing
of that it seems

583
00:27:46,498 --> 00:27:50,402
we get to [inaudible]
thing where it [inaudible]

584
00:27:50,402 --> 00:27:53,471
is inculcated in this
standard curriculum.

585
00:27:53,471 --> 00:27:55,273
It goes into society
and then perpetuates

586
00:27:55,273 --> 00:27:58,743
the standard curriculum
back on the Indian students.

587
00:27:58,743 --> 00:28:00,545
So I'm curious about
if anyone has thoughts

588
00:28:00,545 --> 00:28:04,983
how you could make knowledge
about-- because one

589
00:28:04,983 --> 00:28:08,753
of the main hurdles is people
instituting, or interrogating

590
00:28:08,753 --> 00:28:12,557
the standard curriculum
is just strictly about how

591
00:28:12,557 --> 00:28:15,627
the story of America's history
has been with regarding

592
00:28:15,627 --> 00:28:18,730
the Native American
genocide, slavery,

593
00:28:18,730 --> 00:28:21,666
and, for lack of a
better word, mean

594
00:28:21,666 --> 00:28:25,170
that it is manifest destiny.

595
00:28:25,170 --> 00:28:29,474
How do you make people
aware of that on a level

596
00:28:29,474 --> 00:28:32,777
that they can see those
things playing out today,

597
00:28:32,777 --> 00:28:34,846
then work to interrogate
that curriculum?

598
00:28:34,846 --> 00:28:36,810
Especially if they are
coming from a background

599
00:28:36,810 --> 00:28:39,184
where race isn't talked about
in this family because it's

600
00:28:39,184 --> 00:28:43,154
an uncomfortable
topic, or if they just

601
00:28:43,154 --> 00:28:50,462
haven't heard about these things
necessarily because of school.

602
00:28:50,462 --> 00:28:52,664
AUDIENCE: For me, I feel
like it's more about where

603
00:28:52,664 --> 00:28:56,167
do you learn to interrogate
your own beliefs,

604
00:28:56,167 --> 00:28:59,070
and I feel like
that's hard to find.

605
00:28:59,070 --> 00:29:02,607
And I came to-- this class was
a huge part of that for me.

606
00:29:02,607 --> 00:29:04,576
And I don't know if that
because I started out,

607
00:29:04,576 --> 00:29:07,879
or if I just happened
to stumble upon a place

608
00:29:07,879 --> 00:29:11,182
where I learned to
interrogate my own beliefs.

609
00:29:11,182 --> 00:29:14,252
But I think this isn't a
point to make for themselves,

610
00:29:14,252 --> 00:29:18,309
but I don't really have an
answer for how we get triple

611
00:29:18,309 --> 00:29:20,725
the value in evaluating in
interrogating your own beliefs,

612
00:29:20,725 --> 00:29:26,097
or how much more in [inaudible]
learn to interrogate your own

613
00:29:26,097 --> 00:29:29,119
beliefs before attacking
someone else's.

614
00:29:29,119 --> 00:29:31,369
AUDIENCE: Yeah, bouncing off
of I think a common theme

615
00:29:31,369 --> 00:29:34,405
that we come up in
this class is how

616
00:29:34,405 --> 00:29:36,441
do we have conversations
with people who don't

617
00:29:36,441 --> 00:29:39,744
want to these conversations?

618
00:29:39,744 --> 00:29:42,057
And I think the only way
for them to figure it out is

619
00:29:42,057 --> 00:29:43,515
for them to
interrogate themselves,

620
00:29:43,515 --> 00:29:46,151
but most of those people won't.

621
00:29:46,151 --> 00:29:50,722
So finding ways to make
them interrogate themselves,

622
00:29:50,722 --> 00:29:54,826
I think is gonna be a common
problem throughout history.

623
00:29:54,826 --> 00:29:56,761
And unfortunately I
don't know I, personally,

624
00:29:56,761 --> 00:29:59,063
have a great solution for that.

625
00:29:59,063 --> 00:30:02,700
But I think more
opportunities like this--

626
00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:05,236
I mean obviously you mentioned
this before, the people who

627
00:30:05,236 --> 00:30:07,605
are taking this class,
were not really diversified

628
00:30:07,605 --> 00:30:09,507
at all right?

629
00:30:09,507 --> 00:30:13,211
We all sought this
class out mostly,

630
00:30:13,211 --> 00:30:14,989
so I don't know how
you can get someone

631
00:30:14,989 --> 00:30:16,614
who doesn't want
interrogate themselves

632
00:30:16,614 --> 00:30:17,949
in to a situation like this.

633
00:30:17,949 --> 00:30:20,718
So maybe mandating
something like this

634
00:30:20,718 --> 00:30:22,754
where you have to
go a black history

635
00:30:22,754 --> 00:30:24,689
class, or a Native
American history class,

636
00:30:24,689 --> 00:30:31,262
or whatever might force people
to start talking about it.

637
00:30:31,262 --> 00:30:34,933
AUDIENCE: Yeah, I almost
think it might be better

638
00:30:34,933 --> 00:30:38,570
to not have a
separate class where

639
00:30:38,570 --> 00:30:41,206
this is your
well-roundedness class,

640
00:30:41,206 --> 00:30:43,374
this is where we're going
to learn about the others.

641
00:30:43,374 --> 00:30:46,678
But to integrate
what you would learn

642
00:30:46,678 --> 00:30:48,813
in a specific
black history class

643
00:30:48,813 --> 00:30:50,582
into the general curriculum.

644
00:30:50,582 --> 00:30:53,251
Which of course is
harder, but I do

645
00:30:53,251 --> 00:30:56,621
think would require the
same amount of conversations

646
00:30:56,621 --> 00:30:58,857
and connections,
and negotiations

647
00:30:58,857 --> 00:31:02,627
as making a requirement
of a separate class.

648
00:31:02,627 --> 00:31:04,963
But I think that a
better approach that

649
00:31:04,963 --> 00:31:10,768
might be more palatable and
have more positive effects

650
00:31:10,768 --> 00:31:13,571
would be just straight up
integration, decolonizing

651
00:31:13,571 --> 00:31:15,173
the current curriculum.

652
00:31:15,173 --> 00:31:15,974
CYNTHIA: I totally-

653
00:31:15,974 --> 00:31:17,275
AUDIENCE: Yeah, go ahead.

654
00:31:17,275 --> 00:31:19,525
CYNTHIA: I was going to say
I totally agree with Dana,

655
00:31:19,525 --> 00:31:22,714
I think that--

656
00:31:22,714 --> 00:31:26,985
I'm losing my train of thought--

657
00:31:26,985 --> 00:31:28,620
I totally agree
with Dana because I

658
00:31:28,620 --> 00:31:34,025
think that the history
will speak for itself.

659
00:31:34,025 --> 00:31:36,085
I think that history
is-- if you know

660
00:31:36,085 --> 00:31:37,700
the full history of
the United States

661
00:31:37,700 --> 00:31:39,116
for example-- it's
pretty terrible

662
00:31:39,116 --> 00:31:41,733
and I think that you do need
to know the whole history,

663
00:31:41,733 --> 00:31:43,768
and also need to get
the alternative sides

664
00:31:43,768 --> 00:31:47,505
and have those be integrated
into the curriculum.

665
00:31:47,505 --> 00:31:51,709
I also was interested in
thinking about entry points

666
00:31:51,709 --> 00:31:53,878
into these
conversations, and ways

667
00:31:53,878 --> 00:31:55,546
that our humor can
function as entry

668
00:31:55,546 --> 00:31:56,814
points in these conversations.

669
00:31:56,814 --> 00:31:58,816
I've been having
this conversation

670
00:31:58,816 --> 00:32:01,753
with a friend of mine of
how humor, for example,

671
00:32:01,753 --> 00:32:04,149
gives us a way to
kind of express

672
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:05,857
some of these things
that are more taboo,

673
00:32:05,857 --> 00:32:08,526
and kind of laugh them off,
and kind of integrate them,

674
00:32:08,526 --> 00:32:10,028
as opposed to
everyone shunning them

675
00:32:10,028 --> 00:32:11,195
and people feeling bottled.

676
00:32:11,195 --> 00:32:13,898
So I am interested
about humor and art

677
00:32:13,898 --> 00:32:19,037
specifically as entry point
into these conversations.

678
00:32:19,037 --> 00:32:21,039
MICHEL DEGRAFF: [inaudible].

679
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:24,642
So Dana, I think
what you say in a way

680
00:32:24,642 --> 00:32:27,779
answers the concern that
Shope expressed right?

681
00:32:27,779 --> 00:32:31,282
Because Shope put
it as dual choice.

682
00:32:31,282 --> 00:32:33,584
That you either do this
or you do that, right?

683
00:32:33,584 --> 00:32:35,920
So Dana is right, right Shope,?

684
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,689
One can imagine
having in the class--

685
00:32:37,689 --> 00:32:41,325
the principle math class,
chemistry class-- paying

686
00:32:41,325 --> 00:32:42,627
attention to those issues.

687
00:32:42,627 --> 00:32:45,263
In fact there room
for that, even

688
00:32:45,263 --> 00:32:48,399
if you take a simple
photography class

689
00:32:48,399 --> 00:32:51,135
one can even think about
what kind of choices

690
00:32:51,135 --> 00:32:52,422
go into making your camera?

691
00:32:52,422 --> 00:32:54,505
And actually, I have friends
who are photographers

692
00:32:54,505 --> 00:32:57,442
and they explain to me that
actually most cameras were not

693
00:32:57,442 --> 00:32:59,344
geared to take pictures
of black people.

694
00:32:59,344 --> 00:33:00,945
So even as a white
photographer he

695
00:33:00,945 --> 00:33:03,381
finds that when he takes a
picture with his regular Cannon

696
00:33:03,381 --> 00:33:05,817
of a white person it comes
much better than when

697
00:33:05,817 --> 00:33:07,352
takes it of a black person.

698
00:33:07,352 --> 00:33:08,586
Why?

699
00:33:08,586 --> 00:33:11,756
Because the lenses are
designed with a normal gaze

700
00:33:11,756 --> 00:33:14,459
of the white subject right?

701
00:33:14,459 --> 00:33:17,228
So he had to tweak his
camera to make it take

702
00:33:17,228 --> 00:33:18,796
good pictures of black people.

703
00:33:18,796 --> 00:33:21,566
So even there, even
in physics there's

704
00:33:21,566 --> 00:33:24,235
a way to interrogate
the curriculum.

705
00:33:24,235 --> 00:33:27,338
Why selections are made
with the lens for example?

706
00:33:27,338 --> 00:33:30,174
So in a way it could
both, you could

707
00:33:30,174 --> 00:33:33,444
both have the necessary interest
in human beings the quote

708
00:33:33,444 --> 00:33:35,613
unquote more
"traditional curriculum".

709
00:33:35,613 --> 00:33:37,448
And going back to
the other point,

710
00:33:37,448 --> 00:33:39,617
can you imagine also
in history, in biology,

711
00:33:39,617 --> 00:33:42,820
biology could include
text like I mentioned

712
00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:47,325
earlier, The Mismeasure
of Man if you wish,

713
00:33:47,325 --> 00:33:49,794
goes into lots of integral
issues about biology.

714
00:33:49,794 --> 00:33:52,106
About how we make--
heads were measured

715
00:33:52,106 --> 00:33:53,731
to show that humans
are as intelligent.

716
00:33:53,731 --> 00:33:56,200
At Harvard for
example, for many years

717
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,202
when you were coming
in you had to undress

718
00:33:58,202 --> 00:34:00,171
and they took your
picture naked,

719
00:34:00,171 --> 00:34:03,775
and they would at your picture
to decide what kind of students

720
00:34:03,775 --> 00:34:07,578
you would become based
on physical traits,

721
00:34:07,578 --> 00:34:09,047
like because your head.

722
00:34:09,047 --> 00:34:11,049
This was Harvard.

723
00:34:11,049 --> 00:34:13,985
I guess this was one
proponent of what

724
00:34:13,985 --> 00:34:15,987
was called then phrenology.

725
00:34:15,987 --> 00:34:17,455
Which is the measure of--

726
00:34:17,455 --> 00:34:19,424
So there is plenty,
plenty of room

727
00:34:19,424 --> 00:34:21,426
to integrate those
kind intricacies

728
00:34:21,426 --> 00:34:23,828
within traditional curriculum.

729
00:34:23,828 --> 00:34:28,065
AUDIENCE: Yeah, and I want
to express the fact that

730
00:34:28,065 --> 00:34:31,469
to do such a thing is
not just to include

731
00:34:31,469 --> 00:34:34,505
all of the hushed
historical abuses

732
00:34:34,505 --> 00:34:38,708
that we gloss over in
our current curricula.

733
00:34:38,708 --> 00:34:43,380
But it's also to acknowledge the
good that we have overlooked.

734
00:34:43,380 --> 00:34:46,951
So discoveries and innovations
that other people who are not

735
00:34:46,951 --> 00:34:50,922
quote unquote "western", and
who are not Anglo-American

736
00:34:50,922 --> 00:34:54,659
have made and contributed
to the fields of science,

737
00:34:54,659 --> 00:34:56,561
and history, and literature.

738
00:34:56,561 --> 00:35:00,098
So not only to recognize
these historical evils,

739
00:35:00,098 --> 00:35:03,334
but also the grand positive
impacts that others have had.

740
00:35:03,334 --> 00:35:07,772
MICHEL DEGRAFF:
Absolutely, absolutely.

741
00:35:07,772 --> 00:35:10,641
So are you guys happy
with the answers?

742
00:35:10,641 --> 00:35:17,430
[laughter] OK, so thank
you very much. [applause]