1 00:00:05,290 --> 00:00:07,610 TERESA NEFF: May I introduce Susanna Ogata who 2 00:00:07,610 --> 00:00:12,510 is the assistant concert master for the Handel and Haydn 3 00:00:12,510 --> 00:00:13,880 society. 4 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:15,870 She will be playing the violin. 5 00:00:15,870 --> 00:00:20,000 And Ian Watson-- we say fortepianist, 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,790 but that doesn't really cover all the bases. 7 00:00:22,790 --> 00:00:23,640 Right? 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,570 Organ, harpsichord, piano, fortepiano. 9 00:00:27,570 --> 00:00:29,680 If it's a keyboard, Ian can play it, 10 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,140 I think is what we're going to say here. 11 00:00:32,140 --> 00:00:35,015 IAN WATSON: [INAUDIBLE] red spots on middle C. 12 00:00:35,015 --> 00:00:36,970 [LAUGHING] 13 00:00:36,970 --> 00:00:39,740 TERESA NEFF: They will perform, as you 14 00:00:39,740 --> 00:00:44,230 can see on your program, two of the Beethoven Sonatas 15 00:00:44,230 --> 00:00:46,210 for fortepiano and violin. 16 00:00:46,210 --> 00:00:48,110 The first will be in A Minor. 17 00:00:48,110 --> 00:00:50,810 We will have a chance after that for a little question 18 00:00:50,810 --> 00:00:53,210 and answer. 19 00:00:53,210 --> 00:01:00,260 Then Ian will do the first movement of the A flat piano 20 00:01:00,260 --> 00:01:03,670 sonata to just show us what this instrument can actually do. 21 00:01:03,670 --> 00:01:07,460 And then another break for some question and answers. 22 00:01:07,460 --> 00:01:10,630 And we'll finish up with the Kreutzer Sonata. 23 00:01:10,630 --> 00:01:15,736 So, join me in welcoming Ian and Susanna. 24 00:01:15,736 --> 00:01:19,728 [APPLAUSE] 25 00:01:25,716 --> 00:01:29,209 [TUNING] 26 00:01:32,700 --> 00:01:33,700 TERESA NEFF: No repeats. 27 00:01:33,700 --> 00:01:34,655 PAGE TURNER: Got it. 28 00:01:34,655 --> 00:01:35,696 IAN WATSON: Are you sure? 29 00:01:51,165 --> 00:01:58,650 [MUSIC - BEETHOVEN] 30 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,962 [APPLAUSE] 31 00:16:08,826 --> 00:16:10,770 IAN WATSON: Thank you. 32 00:16:10,770 --> 00:16:13,859 So for those of you who were expecting something else, 33 00:16:13,859 --> 00:16:15,400 that must have been a bit of a shock. 34 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,740 [LAUGHTER] 35 00:16:18,630 --> 00:16:22,660 This does not sound like that at all. 36 00:16:22,660 --> 00:16:25,975 And it's a great pleasure to be here, 37 00:16:25,975 --> 00:16:29,900 to play this music, using these instruments. 38 00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:32,444 These are the instruments which Beethoven definitely 39 00:16:32,444 --> 00:16:34,860 would have recognized or he would certainly recognize them 40 00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:38,220 if he walked in now and heard them. 41 00:16:38,220 --> 00:16:41,300 This instrument is like a snapshot 42 00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:45,930 of the instrument that was around in 1803 or so. 43 00:16:45,930 --> 00:16:49,640 And pianos change very, very quickly, like in the way 44 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:55,130 your iPad, iPod, everything changes and is out of date 45 00:16:55,130 --> 00:16:56,120 in six months. 46 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,100 So pianos were very, very similar at the time. 47 00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:02,285 A terrific development-- a very fast development-- took place. 48 00:17:05,550 --> 00:17:10,150 We use these original instruments 49 00:17:10,150 --> 00:17:12,680 not as some sort of academic exercise 50 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,530 or to polish up relics in a museum, 51 00:17:15,530 --> 00:17:20,200 but to try to get back to or try to recreate 52 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,359 the sort of white hot moments of creation 53 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:30,210 which Beethoven experienced or created himself. 54 00:17:30,210 --> 00:17:33,050 And we find it much easier to do that 55 00:17:33,050 --> 00:17:34,905 using the right instruments. 56 00:17:34,905 --> 00:17:36,280 If you look at Beethoven's music, 57 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,940 it's riddled with sforzandi, for example, 58 00:17:38,940 --> 00:17:41,410 a sort of forced tone, which doesn't 59 00:17:41,410 --> 00:17:44,910 seem to make a lot of sense on an instrument like this, which 60 00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:49,330 most piano teachers discourage you from making it 61 00:17:49,330 --> 00:17:53,530 what they think of as an ugly sound on a modern piano, 62 00:17:53,530 --> 00:17:56,260 because this piano is designed to be even 63 00:17:56,260 --> 00:17:58,260 from the bottom to the top. 64 00:17:58,260 --> 00:18:01,560 And it's the evenness and the creaminess of it in Mozart 65 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,230 and other composers which is deemed 66 00:18:03,230 --> 00:18:07,910 to be one of the major features of it. 67 00:18:07,910 --> 00:18:10,700 This piano does completely the opposite. 68 00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:14,870 It's actually totally uneven from the bottom to the top. 69 00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:20,570 And I think it imparts a feeling, a much more 70 00:18:20,570 --> 00:18:24,160 direct and sort of red blooded element 71 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,050 and a rather sort of sharp edged element 72 00:18:27,050 --> 00:18:29,090 to a lot of classical music, which 73 00:18:29,090 --> 00:18:31,520 is lacking in later pianos. 74 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,910 So it's a lot of fun to play and it's 75 00:18:33,910 --> 00:18:35,980 what Beethoven had in mind. 76 00:18:35,980 --> 00:18:38,230 And so I just wanted to just show you 77 00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:45,670 a couple things on this piano which are of interest. 78 00:18:45,670 --> 00:18:47,790 And the base, for example, the whole thing 79 00:18:47,790 --> 00:18:50,720 is made of wood, so there's no metal in it at all. 80 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,860 The touch is very, very light, which 81 00:18:52,860 --> 00:18:55,270 takes a bit of getting used to as you've probably heard. 82 00:18:55,270 --> 00:19:01,500 But it is very light and very, very simple action 83 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:02,435 if you look at it. 84 00:19:02,435 --> 00:19:04,560 I'm sure some of you want to look at it afterwards. 85 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,340 It's very, very simple and looking very delicate 86 00:19:07,340 --> 00:19:10,110 but actually it's very robust. 87 00:19:10,110 --> 00:19:14,650 I'm not a small person, I can really put some weight into it, 88 00:19:14,650 --> 00:19:15,810 as did Beethoven, too. 89 00:19:15,810 --> 00:19:20,390 Although he was more successful in breaking things than me. 90 00:19:20,390 --> 00:19:24,690 So the bottom of the piano, for example. 91 00:19:24,690 --> 00:19:26,175 [PLAYING LOW NOTES] 92 00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:28,950 There's a sort of buzz. 93 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,580 You know, this tremolando thing. 94 00:19:33,580 --> 00:19:35,360 Steibelt, who was a pianist at the time, 95 00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,160 he was supposed to have made his audiences shutter-- 96 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,210 [TREMOLANDO] 97 00:19:40,210 --> 00:19:41,430 --with his tremolando. 98 00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:43,385 Well, you can't do that on the modern piano, 99 00:19:43,385 --> 00:19:45,080 it doesn't sound the same. 100 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:46,720 [TREMOLANDO] 101 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:47,660 Sort of buzz to it. 102 00:19:47,660 --> 00:19:50,623 And the middle has a kind of a sturdiness. 103 00:19:50,623 --> 00:19:52,590 And the top-- 104 00:19:52,590 --> 00:19:55,470 [HIGH NOTES] 105 00:20:00,430 --> 00:20:03,140 It's sort of a delicate bell-like quality. 106 00:20:03,140 --> 00:20:06,700 So these various elements from the top to the bottom. 107 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:09,010 And also, for those of you who can't see, 108 00:20:09,010 --> 00:20:11,910 but there are no pedals on this piano. 109 00:20:11,910 --> 00:20:12,830 Except there are. 110 00:20:12,830 --> 00:20:14,490 They are under here. 111 00:20:14,490 --> 00:20:19,080 And there's the usual, as it were, sustaining pedal. 112 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,880 Same as the modern piano. 113 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,560 But there's another lever here which 114 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,340 is called the moderator, which basically brings 115 00:20:29,340 --> 00:20:32,560 felt up onto the strings and dampens them 116 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,452 and creates this really-- 117 00:20:34,452 --> 00:20:36,862 [QUIETER NOTES] 118 00:20:38,550 --> 00:20:42,302 I hope to demonstrate a few moderator movements later on. 119 00:20:42,302 --> 00:20:43,760 But that's the sort of sound there. 120 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,290 So there's a huge variety of color 121 00:20:47,290 --> 00:20:52,650 within the large dynamic range. 122 00:20:52,650 --> 00:20:57,310 So I'm going to play the first movement 123 00:20:57,310 --> 00:20:59,050 of the A flat Major Sonata. 124 00:20:59,050 --> 00:21:01,940 The "Funeral March Sonata," so called, 125 00:21:01,940 --> 00:21:05,700 just to demonstrate a lot of these elements to you. 126 00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:10,800 And you can hear how it brings some really interesting 127 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:11,905 dimensions to the music. 128 00:21:15,438 --> 00:21:16,896 [MUSIC BEETHOVEN, "PIANO SONATA NO. 129 00:21:16,896 --> 00:21:21,681 12 IN A FLAT MAJOR, OPUS 26"] 130 00:28:59,264 --> 00:29:03,755 [APPLAUSE] 131 00:29:07,719 --> 00:29:10,010 IAN WATSON: So I think it's a pretty good demonstration 132 00:29:10,010 --> 00:29:17,780 of what the range of sound one can get out of this piano. 133 00:29:17,780 --> 00:29:19,558 So, yes, Teresa? 134 00:29:19,558 --> 00:29:21,463 TERESA NEFF: Well, I think maybe we 135 00:29:21,463 --> 00:29:23,540 can take a few minutes and chat. 136 00:29:23,540 --> 00:29:25,062 IAN WATSON: Sure. 137 00:29:25,062 --> 00:29:26,603 TERESA NEFF: The choice of the A Flat 138 00:29:26,603 --> 00:29:29,060 is perfect to show what this instrument can 139 00:29:29,060 --> 00:29:33,470 do in terms of voicing and bringing out different lines. 140 00:29:33,470 --> 00:29:36,040 And that makes me think about the violin 141 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,960 sonatas or the sonatas for fortepiano and violin, 142 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,450 which we should probably talk about that title. 143 00:29:41,450 --> 00:29:44,632 Why do we take it that way rather than violin sonata? 144 00:29:44,632 --> 00:29:46,840 SUSANNA OGATA: Well, that's how Beethoven wrote them. 145 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,120 I think with him as a pianist, you 146 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,570 know, I think that was his primary-- 147 00:29:53,570 --> 00:29:56,410 maybe you can answer that question better, Ian. 148 00:29:56,410 --> 00:29:58,368 IAN WATSON: I think it's probably got something 149 00:29:58,368 --> 00:30:02,470 to do, as far as that goes, that's is how he titled it. 150 00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:05,390 There are many other examples of that, 151 00:30:05,390 --> 00:30:09,380 of course, where it's keyboard and solo instrument. 152 00:30:09,380 --> 00:30:13,910 We always think of the accompanist as being 153 00:30:13,910 --> 00:30:14,910 TERESA NEFF: [INAUDIBLE] 154 00:30:14,910 --> 00:30:16,160 IAN WATSON: Well, you said it. 155 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,300 Subsidiary in some way. 156 00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:19,177 It's just kind of the way that it's grown up. 157 00:30:19,177 --> 00:30:20,760 But I think there was certainly a time 158 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,400 when the keyboard part was the most important. 159 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:30,710 But as far as Beethoven goes, I think he titled titled, 160 00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:35,870 certainly titled his first set of Cello Sonatas for fortepiano 161 00:30:35,870 --> 00:30:38,560 and cello I believe, he was trying 162 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,480 to establish himself as a virtuoso pianist. 163 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,680 And the Piano Trio No. 164 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,540 1, which is his first published piece, 165 00:30:47,540 --> 00:30:53,620 has a very, very virtuosic piano part for him to say look, 166 00:30:53,620 --> 00:30:54,249 I'm a genius. 167 00:30:54,249 --> 00:30:55,290 Here I am, sort of thing. 168 00:30:55,290 --> 00:30:56,060 TERESA NEFF: Yeah, right. 169 00:30:56,060 --> 00:30:57,090 And I can play it, too. 170 00:30:57,090 --> 00:30:58,890 IAN WATSON: Yeah, right. 171 00:30:58,890 --> 00:31:03,470 So I think he had every right to put it that way around. 172 00:31:03,470 --> 00:31:06,291 So there's also kind of a conventional thing attached 173 00:31:06,291 --> 00:31:06,790 to that. 174 00:31:06,790 --> 00:31:11,360 But he felt too that really from the A Major Cello Sonata 175 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,280 onwards that the parts were equal. 176 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,380 So I'm not sure at what point the titles 177 00:31:18,380 --> 00:31:19,660 were switched, as it were. 178 00:31:19,660 --> 00:31:21,244 But I think it was pretty commonplace. 179 00:31:21,244 --> 00:31:23,076 TERESA NEFF: Well, that leads to the violin. 180 00:31:23,076 --> 00:31:25,510 I mean, I don't think it's fair to say that in the A Minor 181 00:31:25,510 --> 00:31:27,339 or in Kreutzer that the violin is 182 00:31:27,339 --> 00:31:28,630 taking a backseat to the piano. 183 00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:29,171 AUDIENCE: No. 184 00:31:29,171 --> 00:31:30,980 And especially in the Kreutzer it's 185 00:31:30,980 --> 00:31:35,060 really Concerto writing almost for both instruments really. 186 00:31:35,060 --> 00:31:35,900 Yeah. 187 00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:37,316 TERESA NEFF: And what does that do 188 00:31:37,316 --> 00:31:39,480 in terms of your interactions as performers? 189 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,255 Does that change anything for you 190 00:31:42,255 --> 00:31:45,240 as performers that the parts are now 191 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,740 on a much more equal kind of prominence? 192 00:31:51,972 --> 00:31:53,430 IAN WATSON: That's a good question. 193 00:31:57,860 --> 00:32:01,880 From my point of view, I do a lot of harpsichord continuo 194 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:08,130 playing, which was called accompaniment by many. 195 00:32:08,130 --> 00:32:09,714 But I do a lot of that. 196 00:32:09,714 --> 00:32:14,030 And that's a particular function of supporting 197 00:32:14,030 --> 00:32:21,537 and harmonic and rhythmic support in a way. 198 00:32:21,537 --> 00:32:23,120 And it wasn't written down, of course. 199 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,360 It just had figures which you follow. 200 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:31,230 This kind of notated writing requires something else. 201 00:32:31,230 --> 00:32:35,570 It requires a lot more cooperation, in a way. 202 00:32:35,570 --> 00:32:39,540 I mean, if I'm playing the harpsichord in a Vivaldi 203 00:32:39,540 --> 00:32:41,570 sonata, let's say. 204 00:32:41,570 --> 00:32:46,440 The solo part is the one with the virtuosic elements to it. 205 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,370 My part is very much to be the drab male. 206 00:32:50,370 --> 00:32:52,500 I am the drab male in this duo anyway. 207 00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:54,700 But that's another story. 208 00:32:57,634 --> 00:32:59,550 But with this music I think there is much more 209 00:32:59,550 --> 00:33:03,180 collaboration and cooperation that needs to happen 210 00:33:03,180 --> 00:33:05,020 and more rehearsal. 211 00:33:05,020 --> 00:33:06,250 [LAUGHTER] 212 00:33:06,250 --> 00:33:11,250 I mean, we've played these a few times now. 213 00:33:11,250 --> 00:33:16,860 Only, I had never really played them before, not much anyway. 214 00:33:16,860 --> 00:33:21,345 And so we just sort of feel now that we just sort of 215 00:33:21,345 --> 00:33:26,370 are getting into scratching the surface of it really in a way. 216 00:33:26,370 --> 00:33:28,310 There's so much to learn. 217 00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:32,190 But performing them is a learning process. 218 00:33:32,190 --> 00:33:34,650 So there's that element to it. 219 00:33:34,650 --> 00:33:37,000 SUSANNA OGATA: Sorry, just to add to the question 220 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,090 about playing as a team in these pieces. 221 00:33:42,090 --> 00:33:44,050 One thing I find interesting is playing them 222 00:33:44,050 --> 00:33:46,870 on these instruments is a different experience 223 00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:49,260 even as far as collaboration in a way 224 00:33:49,260 --> 00:33:52,780 of the sound that comes out. 225 00:33:52,780 --> 00:33:57,490 And with the style back then, for instance, string players 226 00:33:57,490 --> 00:34:00,230 didn't use quite as much vibrato when 227 00:34:00,230 --> 00:34:02,900 they were playing these pieces. 228 00:34:02,900 --> 00:34:08,440 And so I choose my vibrato-- I really 229 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,690 think about where am I going to vibrate. 230 00:34:10,690 --> 00:34:12,489 It's not all over the place, certainly. 231 00:34:12,489 --> 00:34:17,300 And I find that that changes the whole sound together. 232 00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:21,974 I feel I'm a voice of the piano. 233 00:34:21,974 --> 00:34:24,239 IAN WATSON: There's also a resemblance of the sounds. 234 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,179 I mean, they're not similar in a way, 235 00:34:26,179 --> 00:34:29,614 but there's a blending element to them. 236 00:34:29,614 --> 00:34:31,280 TERESA NEFF: They compliment each other. 237 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,821 IAN WATSON: The compliment very well. 238 00:34:32,821 --> 00:34:33,550 Yeah. 239 00:34:33,550 --> 00:34:34,440 SUSANNA OGATA: And I find that completely 240 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,148 different from playing on a modern violin 241 00:34:36,148 --> 00:34:39,219 and a modern piano. 242 00:34:39,219 --> 00:34:40,440 The sound coming out. 243 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,179 TERESA NEFF: Can you say something 244 00:34:42,179 --> 00:34:42,620 about your instrument? 245 00:34:42,620 --> 00:34:43,070 SUSANNA OGATA: Yes. 246 00:34:43,070 --> 00:34:43,400 Absolutely. 247 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,960 TERESA NEFF: And then we'll move on to the Kreutzer. 248 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,909 SUSANNA OGATA: So at the time these pieces 249 00:34:46,909 --> 00:34:49,540 were written, which was the early 1800s, 250 00:34:49,540 --> 00:34:50,620 there was a lot going on. 251 00:34:50,620 --> 00:34:52,620 People were tinkering around with the set 252 00:34:52,620 --> 00:34:55,580 up of a string instrument. 253 00:34:55,580 --> 00:34:57,560 But the thing is, not everybody had 254 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:02,070 access to what the newest and latest developments were. 255 00:35:02,070 --> 00:35:06,690 What we know for sure is that the lower three strings 256 00:35:06,690 --> 00:35:07,860 were gut strings. 257 00:35:07,860 --> 00:35:10,040 They had started to wind the G string with steel, 258 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:11,850 but that still had a gut core. 259 00:35:11,850 --> 00:35:13,940 And playing on the strings themselves, 260 00:35:13,940 --> 00:35:16,500 just the difference of a steel string to a gut string 261 00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:17,500 is completely different. 262 00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:20,610 You have to work a little harder on a gut string. 263 00:35:20,610 --> 00:35:21,340 They squawk. 264 00:35:21,340 --> 00:35:22,040 They can squeak. 265 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:27,640 And if you're not treating them with care, 266 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:28,990 they do that much easier. 267 00:35:28,990 --> 00:35:33,670 But I find that, when you get accustomed to using them, 268 00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:36,950 that they're so much warmer in a way 269 00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:41,650 than the steel string, which might, along with the set 270 00:35:41,650 --> 00:35:44,980 up of a modern violin, which the way it's set up 271 00:35:44,980 --> 00:35:47,730 is to produce more tension with the string, 272 00:35:47,730 --> 00:35:50,470 so you might get more power with a steel string 273 00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:52,010 and a modern set up of a violin. 274 00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:56,290 But, again, the warmth and color that can come from a gut string 275 00:35:56,290 --> 00:35:58,710 set up. 276 00:35:58,710 --> 00:36:01,970 Now, my violin is set up for a little less tension. 277 00:36:01,970 --> 00:36:05,720 I'm using a baroque classical bridge. 278 00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:08,920 And, again, there isn't a lot written, 279 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,961 I have not found a lot of a definitive answer 280 00:36:11,961 --> 00:36:14,210 on what people were using, and that's because I really 281 00:36:14,210 --> 00:36:18,050 think that not everybody had, like I said, 282 00:36:18,050 --> 00:36:21,940 the access to the latest and greatest improvements 283 00:36:21,940 --> 00:36:26,446 of bridge, neck. 284 00:36:26,446 --> 00:36:27,570 Actually, it's interesting. 285 00:36:27,570 --> 00:36:31,040 Also, the bow, I'm not using the modern bow. 286 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,090 I'm using what's known as a classical bow, which is not 287 00:36:35,090 --> 00:36:37,110 quite as long as a modern bow. 288 00:36:37,110 --> 00:36:38,890 With an earlier bow, a baroque bow, 289 00:36:38,890 --> 00:36:41,141 you have a little more of an angle outward. 290 00:36:41,141 --> 00:36:43,140 And, again, that produces a completely different 291 00:36:43,140 --> 00:36:45,030 articulation. 292 00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:46,750 With the baroque bow you don't have 293 00:36:46,750 --> 00:36:48,560 maybe the sustaining power. 294 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,600 This is something in between the modern bow and the baroque bow. 295 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,350 Where it's not as long as the modern bow, 296 00:36:54,350 --> 00:36:56,020 you get a little more sustain. 297 00:36:56,020 --> 00:36:58,630 But, again, maybe not the power of the modern bow. 298 00:36:58,630 --> 00:37:02,493 But it's funny because even Pagannini who lived later 299 00:37:02,493 --> 00:37:05,900 in the 1800s, there's a picture of him playing 300 00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:08,760 on a transitional bow, not a modern bow. 301 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,240 But the modern bow, by this point-- by early 1800s-- 302 00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:16,950 was out there, but not everybody-- maybe the greatest 303 00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:19,590 virtuouso-- I don't know who was playing them, 304 00:37:19,590 --> 00:37:21,359 they were out there, but not everybody. 305 00:37:21,359 --> 00:37:22,650 And so it's interesting for me. 306 00:37:22,650 --> 00:37:26,550 I I've been thinking about where do I come from. 307 00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:28,410 Do I play on a modern bow? 308 00:37:28,410 --> 00:37:29,160 What do I play on? 309 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,750 And I kind of like the feeling with this music, 310 00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:34,520 as Ian was talking about, the white hot intensity 311 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,640 of the music at that moment. 312 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,980 These people were coming from a tradition of baroque playing 313 00:37:40,980 --> 00:37:44,360 and this music is busting out in every possible way. 314 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,747 It's asking the instruments to do the max 315 00:37:47,747 --> 00:37:49,580 and beyond of what they're capable of doing. 316 00:37:49,580 --> 00:37:51,712 And to be a performer and play the music 317 00:37:51,712 --> 00:37:53,170 with these instruments where you're 318 00:37:53,170 --> 00:37:57,650 feeling like you're pushing the limits, for me, is so exciting. 319 00:37:57,650 --> 00:38:00,120 It's so exciting. 320 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,500 IAN WATSON: One thing about the bow, 321 00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:05,320 excuse the expletives on this, but obviously a lot people 322 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,570 at MIT I'm sure can work out the physics of all this, 323 00:38:08,570 --> 00:38:11,790 but really the bow, as I understand it, 324 00:38:11,790 --> 00:38:13,854 the bow is even more important. 325 00:38:13,854 --> 00:38:15,520 People get kind of obsessed with the gut 326 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,010 strings in period instruments. 327 00:38:17,010 --> 00:38:19,030 Actually the bow is probably at least 328 00:38:19,030 --> 00:38:22,940 as important as any of that because the baroque bow 329 00:38:22,940 --> 00:38:30,200 is shaped in a convex way, which means that the hairs of the bow 330 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:35,600 are rather rigid, which means that it transmits much more 331 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,570 accurately every movement of your hand onto the string. 332 00:38:39,570 --> 00:38:43,250 Whereas the modern bow is shaped the other way, 333 00:38:43,250 --> 00:38:48,880 which means that hairs of the bow are more flexible. 334 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,980 And you can actually play more long and smooth 335 00:38:51,980 --> 00:38:53,340 with a bow like that. 336 00:38:53,340 --> 00:38:56,820 So there's a huge difference between the two. 337 00:38:56,820 --> 00:38:59,185 And also what Susanna said about the power 338 00:38:59,185 --> 00:39:01,430 that one can get with this bow. 339 00:39:01,430 --> 00:39:04,280 But it's the articulation and the clarity. 340 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,240 Because from a musical point of view, 341 00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:12,790 if you can't hear everything which is in a musical score, 342 00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:16,150 then it's self evidently wrong. 343 00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:21,180 And I think we stand more chance of actually producing detail 344 00:39:21,180 --> 00:39:26,990 with these instruments than big sound producing, 345 00:39:26,990 --> 00:39:31,220 smooth, up and down instruments. 346 00:39:31,220 --> 00:39:32,805 That's how we feel about it. 347 00:39:32,805 --> 00:39:33,870 We hope you agree. 348 00:39:37,517 --> 00:39:40,499 TERESA NEFF: With that in mind let's turn to the Kreutzer. 349 00:39:40,499 --> 00:39:42,984 And then we will open it up to questions 350 00:39:42,984 --> 00:39:44,719 and take it from there. 351 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:45,469 SUSANNA OGATA: OK. 352 00:39:45,469 --> 00:39:46,177 IAN WATSON: Yeah. 353 00:39:57,902 --> 00:39:58,860 SUSANNA OGATA: Oh, yes. 354 00:39:58,860 --> 00:40:01,020 IAN WATSON: There are some disadvantages 355 00:40:01,020 --> 00:40:03,140 about playing these instruments, though. 356 00:40:03,140 --> 00:40:05,487 And that is they go out of tune very quickly. 357 00:40:05,487 --> 00:40:06,650 [DISSONANT NOTE] 358 00:40:06,650 --> 00:40:07,540 As you can hear. 359 00:40:07,540 --> 00:40:08,890 It's just one of those things. 360 00:40:08,890 --> 00:40:11,360 That's one of the reasons why instruments developed. 361 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,760 But we think that it's worth it. 362 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,510 You're going to have to get over that one. 363 00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:20,680 Sorry about that. 364 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,620 [TUNING_] 365 00:40:42,572 --> 00:40:43,780 [MUSIC BEETHOVEN, "SONATA NO. 366 00:40:43,780 --> 00:40:50,074 9 IN A MAJOR, OPUS 47 'KREUTZER'"] 367 01:10:19,862 --> 01:10:24,353 [APPLAUSE] 368 01:10:37,220 --> 01:10:38,953 TERESA NEFF: Wow. 369 01:10:38,953 --> 01:10:41,358 That was fantastic. 370 01:10:41,358 --> 01:10:44,123 Are you willing to take a few questions? 371 01:10:44,123 --> 01:10:45,206 SUSANNA OGATA: Absolutely. 372 01:10:45,206 --> 01:10:46,170 IAN WATSON: Sure. 373 01:10:46,170 --> 01:10:46,920 TERESA NEFF: Cool. 374 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,490 Does anyone have any questions? 375 01:10:49,490 --> 01:10:50,470 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 376 01:10:50,470 --> 01:10:53,900 What room in Boston do you like playing in? 377 01:10:53,900 --> 01:10:56,350 What's the best environment acoustically? 378 01:10:56,350 --> 01:11:00,760 SUSANNA OGATA: Which room do we like to play in? 379 01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:03,331 AUDIENCE: Or anywhere. 380 01:11:03,331 --> 01:11:04,830 SUSANNA OGATA: The thing with Boston 381 01:11:04,830 --> 01:11:06,384 is there are so many nice places. 382 01:11:09,793 --> 01:11:11,254 You take that. 383 01:11:17,042 --> 01:11:18,291 IAN WATSON: Can't answer that. 384 01:11:18,291 --> 01:11:19,791 TERESA NEFF: Do you worry about size 385 01:11:19,791 --> 01:11:24,532 when you're dealing with these instruments and Beethoven? 386 01:11:24,532 --> 01:11:25,865 IAN WATSON: Difficult questions. 387 01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:35,630 I don't know how to answer this. 388 01:11:35,630 --> 01:11:39,290 My brain is still halfway through the last movement. 389 01:11:39,290 --> 01:11:39,970 Let's see. 390 01:11:39,970 --> 01:11:45,140 Well, I would say that somewhere not too big. 391 01:11:45,140 --> 01:11:46,770 We just did a few concerts. 392 01:11:46,770 --> 01:11:48,760 We played in really small places. 393 01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:52,400 I mean, like, half the size of this. 394 01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:55,500 And I think really this music is designed 395 01:11:55,500 --> 01:11:58,930 to be played in people's homes, where 396 01:11:58,930 --> 01:12:04,400 I think it would have a huge impact on people. 397 01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:08,000 It's like letting off a bomb in an enclosed space. 398 01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:11,230 It's really sort of a huge, huge impact. 399 01:12:11,230 --> 01:12:16,351 So I'd say the bigger the space, the less impact there would be. 400 01:12:19,440 --> 01:12:23,240 Difficult to say other than that. 401 01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:24,152 Yeah. 402 01:12:24,152 --> 01:12:24,860 Sorry about that. 403 01:12:24,860 --> 01:12:26,880 It's sort of a lame answer, but there we are. 404 01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:28,421 AUDIENCE: The frame in the instrument 405 01:12:28,421 --> 01:12:29,716 is wood rather than metal? 406 01:12:29,716 --> 01:12:30,424 IAN WATSON: Yeah. 407 01:12:30,424 --> 01:12:32,160 Yeah, it is. 408 01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:35,370 And I think for that reason that they are susceptible. 409 01:12:35,370 --> 01:12:38,290 That coupled with the lightness of the action. 410 01:12:38,290 --> 01:12:41,750 And the strings are thinner, of course. 411 01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:44,810 And the whole thing is much more susceptible. 412 01:12:44,810 --> 01:12:46,335 It's like a harpsichord. 413 01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:50,350 They go out of tune. 414 01:12:50,350 --> 01:12:51,980 They're very susceptible to humidity 415 01:12:51,980 --> 01:12:53,525 especially as much as temperature. 416 01:12:55,717 --> 01:12:58,050 SUSANNA OGATA: Ideally before we would play the Kreutzer 417 01:12:58,050 --> 01:13:00,195 we would have a re-tune. 418 01:13:00,195 --> 01:13:01,560 Because they would go. 419 01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:03,510 IAN WATSON: Yeah. 420 01:13:03,510 --> 01:13:06,680 This music really beats up the instruments. 421 01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:11,890 I mean, it is music like that which caused developments 422 01:13:11,890 --> 01:13:13,520 to happen in the instruments. 423 01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:16,440 People like Beethoven and Liszt, of course. 424 01:13:16,440 --> 01:13:19,410 I think Liszt had two guys standing 425 01:13:19,410 --> 01:13:24,550 on either side of the piano pulling out the broken strings. 426 01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:29,985 It's people like that who create progress-- so called progress 427 01:13:29,985 --> 01:13:31,170 anyway. 428 01:13:31,170 --> 01:13:34,620 I think this is really wonderful to hear this music played 429 01:13:34,620 --> 01:13:36,265 on an instrument like this. 430 01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:39,780 Gives a whole different perspective. 431 01:13:39,780 --> 01:13:40,040 Yeah. 432 01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:40,539 Go ahead. 433 01:13:40,539 --> 01:13:42,780 SUSANNA OGATA: We're working on a project 434 01:13:42,780 --> 01:13:46,692 to record these pieces for fortepiano and violin. 435 01:13:46,692 --> 01:13:47,900 IAN WATSON: What's it called? 436 01:13:47,900 --> 01:13:49,040 Beethoven-project.com. 437 01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:50,540 SUSANNA OGATA: Beethoven project.com 438 01:13:50,540 --> 01:13:53,514 if you're interested in joining us on our way. 439 01:13:53,514 --> 01:13:54,180 IAN WATSON: Yes. 440 01:13:54,180 --> 01:13:55,929 Especially if you'd like to give us money. 441 01:13:58,110 --> 01:14:00,309 AUDIENCE: Will that been be available to us to hear? 442 01:14:00,309 --> 01:14:01,100 SUSANNA OGATA: Yes. 443 01:14:01,100 --> 01:14:01,710 IAN WATSON: Oh, for sure. 444 01:14:01,710 --> 01:14:03,626 Yeah, it's going to be a commercial recording. 445 01:14:03,626 --> 01:14:06,490 SUSANNA OGATA: The first one we're going to record in June. 446 01:14:06,490 --> 01:14:09,000 Actually these two pieces that we played today. 447 01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:09,850 IAN WATSON: Yes. 448 01:14:09,850 --> 01:14:12,740 Trying to get them up to scratch. 449 01:14:12,740 --> 01:14:15,440 AUDIENCE: By who were these instruments crafted? 450 01:14:15,440 --> 01:14:16,757 Where and when? 451 01:14:16,757 --> 01:14:18,090 IAN WATSON: This particular one? 452 01:14:18,090 --> 01:14:20,550 AUDIENCE: Mm-hm. 453 01:14:20,550 --> 01:14:24,270 IAN WATSON: This was made by a guy named Paul McNulty who 454 01:14:24,270 --> 01:14:27,450 seems to have cornered the market on making 455 01:14:27,450 --> 01:14:30,550 this particular type of instrument. 456 01:14:30,550 --> 01:14:34,060 I believe this is modeled on a Walter. 457 01:14:34,060 --> 01:14:34,850 Copy. 458 01:14:34,850 --> 01:14:38,650 It's a copy of a Walter instrument from 1803. 459 01:14:38,650 --> 01:14:41,630 And Walter was a prolific maker. 460 01:14:41,630 --> 01:14:45,190 And I think he had some sons, as well. 461 01:14:45,190 --> 01:14:50,350 So Paul McNulty made this one and there are other makers. 462 01:14:50,350 --> 01:14:53,630 But I think he's sort of cornered the market on it. 463 01:14:53,630 --> 01:14:54,880 He makes us a fine instrument. 464 01:14:58,370 --> 01:15:00,330 Some are a bit clunky. 465 01:15:00,330 --> 01:15:01,450 People make copies. 466 01:15:01,450 --> 01:15:03,480 It's very difficult to copy an instrument 467 01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:05,800 and to make it sound like an instrument. 468 01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,745 There was a time when people made harpsichords 469 01:15:08,745 --> 01:15:09,870 and they weren't that good. 470 01:15:09,870 --> 01:15:11,620 And they say, well, of course, we just 471 01:15:11,620 --> 01:15:13,110 copied exactly what they did. 472 01:15:13,110 --> 01:15:15,600 It must have sounded like that. 473 01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:19,070 Similarly with the fortepianos, they just made a copy 474 01:15:19,070 --> 01:15:20,929 and they sounded a bit clunky and dull. 475 01:15:20,929 --> 01:15:22,345 And they say, well, that must have 476 01:15:22,345 --> 01:15:24,261 been how they did it, but actually instruments 477 01:15:24,261 --> 01:15:30,210 like this prove that they had a huge sort of resonance 478 01:15:30,210 --> 01:15:32,010 and color. 479 01:15:32,010 --> 01:15:33,290 A good instrument. 480 01:15:33,290 --> 01:15:35,572 TERESA NEFF: And that one's from about 15 years ago? 481 01:15:35,572 --> 01:15:36,280 IAN WATSON: Yeah. 482 01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:37,812 I'm not sure. 483 01:15:37,812 --> 01:15:39,520 TERESA NEFF: I think it's from about 200? 484 01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:40,228 IAN WATSON: Yeah. 485 01:15:40,228 --> 01:15:41,210 It could well be. 486 01:15:41,210 --> 01:15:43,164 Yeah. 487 01:15:43,164 --> 01:15:45,460 AUDIENCE: What's the tuning on that piano? 488 01:15:45,460 --> 01:15:47,360 IAN WATSON: The tuning? 489 01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:50,010 I'm not sure which-- there's a temperament on it. 490 01:15:50,010 --> 01:15:52,810 That's what you mean, right? 491 01:15:52,810 --> 01:15:54,780 The tuner who's not here, unfortunately, 492 01:15:54,780 --> 01:15:57,360 knows which temperament he tune it to. 493 01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:01,070 It's not equal temperament because we 494 01:16:01,070 --> 01:16:03,670 don't do equal temperament. 495 01:16:03,670 --> 01:16:07,015 That's another feature of the modern piano, 496 01:16:07,015 --> 01:16:09,830 of course, is they tend to be tuned generally 497 01:16:09,830 --> 01:16:13,530 in equal temperament because the idea is that you can play 498 01:16:13,530 --> 01:16:16,440 reasonably well in most keys. 499 01:16:16,440 --> 01:16:20,250 But historical tunings are definitely the way to go. 500 01:16:20,250 --> 01:16:22,580 And I'm not sure what temperament 501 01:16:22,580 --> 01:16:27,620 this has been tuned in, but it certainly is in one. 502 01:16:27,620 --> 01:16:29,970 Its difficult to tell by ear. 503 01:16:29,970 --> 01:16:34,430 AUDIENCE: Does that mean it's tunes for a key? 504 01:16:34,430 --> 01:16:39,040 IAN WATSON: It does mean that it's tuned for a key. 505 01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:39,930 Yeah. 506 01:16:39,930 --> 01:16:41,460 AUDIENCE: So this is tuned for A? 507 01:16:41,460 --> 01:16:42,668 IAN WATSON: It's tuned for--? 508 01:16:42,668 --> 01:16:46,030 AUDIENCE: For A. 509 01:16:46,030 --> 01:16:47,870 IAN WATSON: Well, you can tune them 510 01:16:47,870 --> 01:16:49,710 for a mixture of different keys. 511 01:16:49,710 --> 01:16:51,420 It depends on which note you start on, 512 01:16:51,420 --> 01:16:55,470 I think is partly the thing. 513 01:16:55,470 --> 01:16:58,500 I mean, historic tunings and temperaments-- 514 01:16:58,500 --> 01:17:00,770 I'm sure you know something about it-- 515 01:17:00,770 --> 01:17:05,240 but it's a very complicated subject. 516 01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:08,930 Basically if you tune pure fifths and pure fourths, 517 01:17:08,930 --> 01:17:11,110 you don't get an octave. 518 01:17:11,110 --> 01:17:12,320 That's basically what it is. 519 01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:13,810 And there's a bit left over. 520 01:17:13,810 --> 01:17:15,310 Well, that bit left over, they tend 521 01:17:15,310 --> 01:17:17,940 to distribute throughout the keyboard. 522 01:17:17,940 --> 01:17:20,480 You can either load it up on one key 523 01:17:20,480 --> 01:17:22,340 and make all the others sound sweet, 524 01:17:22,340 --> 01:17:24,670 or you can distribute it throughout the whole length 525 01:17:24,670 --> 01:17:27,060 of the keyboard, which gives you equal temperament. 526 01:17:27,060 --> 01:17:28,420 It's that sort of thing. 527 01:17:28,420 --> 01:17:30,350 So I'm not sure how they divide it 528 01:17:30,350 --> 01:17:34,430 up, the little bit extra bits on this one. 529 01:17:34,430 --> 01:17:36,954 But it sounds quite sweet except for that 530 01:17:36,954 --> 01:17:37,620 [DISSONANT NOTE] 531 01:17:37,620 --> 01:17:38,460 one. 532 01:17:38,460 --> 01:17:39,884 [LAUGHTER] 533 01:17:39,884 --> 01:17:42,050 SUSANNA OGATA: And they're also tuned slightly lower 534 01:17:42,050 --> 01:17:46,550 than you would be at modern pitch, which would be at A440. 535 01:17:46,550 --> 01:17:49,720 This is A430. 536 01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:53,185 Again, it all effects the color and the sound. 537 01:17:56,060 --> 01:17:58,650 I don't know if you were curious about my instrument as well. 538 01:17:58,650 --> 01:18:02,580 I'm playing on a Klotz, which there were a family of Klotz 539 01:18:02,580 --> 01:18:06,150 makers in Mittenwald in Germany. 540 01:18:06,150 --> 01:18:11,360 And this is Josef Klotz and is a 1792. 541 01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:14,345 Who knows, maybe it passed through the Beethoven family. 542 01:18:19,516 --> 01:18:21,724 TERESA NEFF: And what's been done to your instrument? 543 01:18:21,724 --> 01:18:23,840 Was it ever made into a more modern instrument 544 01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:24,220 and then taken-- 545 01:18:24,220 --> 01:18:25,595 SUSANNA OGATA: That I don't know, 546 01:18:25,595 --> 01:18:27,310 but this has definitely been taken back. 547 01:18:27,310 --> 01:18:32,100 It's got a historical neck. 548 01:18:32,100 --> 01:18:36,520 Again, so it's a lower tension. 549 01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:40,304 It's got a baroque bridge on it currently. 550 01:18:40,304 --> 01:18:42,220 TERESA NEFF: And your finger board is shorter? 551 01:18:42,220 --> 01:18:43,070 SUSANNA OGATA: Slightly shorter. 552 01:18:43,070 --> 01:18:44,031 Slightly shorter. 553 01:18:44,031 --> 01:18:44,530 Yeah. 554 01:18:44,530 --> 01:18:48,630 But the whole thing is slightly-- On a modern violin 555 01:18:48,630 --> 01:18:51,190 this would be a little longer neck and angled 556 01:18:51,190 --> 01:18:53,120 back slightly more. 557 01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:57,340 TERESA NEFF: Did that effect how you're playing high? 558 01:18:57,340 --> 01:18:59,132 Because at certain points in the Kreutzer 559 01:18:59,132 --> 01:19:00,030 you're in the stratosphere. 560 01:19:00,030 --> 01:19:00,480 SUSANNA OGATA: Absolutely. 561 01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:01,150 Absolutely. 562 01:19:01,150 --> 01:19:03,440 I mean, the whole feel is just completely 563 01:19:03,440 --> 01:19:06,070 different than on my modern instrument. 564 01:19:06,070 --> 01:19:11,340 And so it just takes lots of work to get used to. 565 01:19:11,340 --> 01:19:13,390 The whole feeling of it, the weight 566 01:19:13,390 --> 01:19:17,420 of the bow on the string and not crashing or squawking, 567 01:19:17,420 --> 01:19:21,010 it's a completely different feel. 568 01:19:21,010 --> 01:19:24,190 And it's exciting because you don't get a chance 569 01:19:24,190 --> 01:19:27,270 to play with this instrument-- the fortepiano-- 570 01:19:27,270 --> 01:19:29,060 and experiment with this kind of thing. 571 01:19:29,060 --> 01:19:32,540 To play what those composers heard back then. 572 01:19:32,540 --> 01:19:38,247 It's just so great to be able to do it. 573 01:19:38,247 --> 01:19:38,955 It's eye opening. 574 01:19:43,276 --> 01:19:46,228 AUDIENCE: This meant to be an easy question 575 01:19:46,228 --> 01:19:48,196 but maybe it's even banal. 576 01:19:48,196 --> 01:19:50,833 I wonder how you feel as you're playing. 577 01:19:50,833 --> 01:19:52,624 And right after, you're simply exhilarated. 578 01:19:52,624 --> 01:19:54,100 But maybe a little exhausted. 579 01:19:58,060 --> 01:20:01,800 SUSANNA OGATA: For me I'm mostly exhilarated after I play. 580 01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:05,040 I feel like it's hard to wind down a little bit. 581 01:20:08,940 --> 01:20:10,670 IAN WATSON: It depends. 582 01:20:10,670 --> 01:20:12,138 I wish I'd played better. 583 01:20:12,138 --> 01:20:15,344 [LAUGHTER] 584 01:20:15,344 --> 01:20:21,044 TERESA NEFF: I think we have time for one more question. 585 01:20:21,044 --> 01:20:22,030 IAN WATSON: Yeah? 586 01:20:22,030 --> 01:20:25,974 AUDIENCE: I'm thinking about how the audience interacts 587 01:20:25,974 --> 01:20:29,425 with the musicians and the music now 588 01:20:29,425 --> 01:20:31,890 versus how it was back then. 589 01:20:31,890 --> 01:20:35,834 I heard, for example, that in big performances 590 01:20:35,834 --> 01:20:38,463 it used to be that the audience would 591 01:20:38,463 --> 01:20:40,060 applaud during the concert. 592 01:20:40,060 --> 01:20:41,226 IAN WATSON: Interesting one. 593 01:20:41,226 --> 01:20:42,784 That's a good one. 594 01:20:42,784 --> 01:20:45,630 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] 595 01:20:45,630 --> 01:20:47,710 IAN WATSON: That's a really easy question. 596 01:20:47,710 --> 01:20:50,820 Actually I wasn't there, so I don't know how they reacted. 597 01:20:50,820 --> 01:20:52,470 [LAUGHTER] 598 01:20:53,090 --> 01:20:58,410 But I think there is a lot of examples of what they did do. 599 01:20:58,410 --> 01:21:03,020 And I can give you a really good example, actually, 600 01:21:03,020 --> 01:21:06,070 of the changes which have been made. 601 01:21:06,070 --> 01:21:10,800 That is, for example, in Handel's time, 602 01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:14,219 people used to be playing cards and eating their dinner 603 01:21:14,219 --> 01:21:14,760 and shouting. 604 01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:16,470 I think they even told the musicians 605 01:21:16,470 --> 01:21:19,284 to keep the noise down while the opera was going on 606 01:21:19,284 --> 01:21:20,450 because they couldn't hear-- 607 01:21:20,450 --> 01:21:23,030 TERESA NEFF: Well, you could close the curtains of your box. 608 01:21:23,030 --> 01:21:23,914 IAN WATSON: Right. 609 01:21:23,914 --> 01:21:25,240 Right, right, right. 610 01:21:25,240 --> 01:21:26,134 All that. 611 01:21:26,134 --> 01:21:28,050 I don't see the point of paying a lot of money 612 01:21:28,050 --> 01:21:29,508 to go to the opera and then closing 613 01:21:29,508 --> 01:21:32,450 the curtains on your box so you don't have to look at it. 614 01:21:32,450 --> 01:21:33,640 So that's one thing. 615 01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,230 But I remember being at an opera, whatever 616 01:21:36,230 --> 01:21:38,770 it was, "Marriage of Figaro," or whatever it was. 617 01:21:38,770 --> 01:21:40,830 It was a comic opera. 618 01:21:40,830 --> 01:21:44,150 I remember laughing out loud because it was funny 619 01:21:44,150 --> 01:21:48,310 and someone going "shh!" 620 01:21:48,310 --> 01:21:51,320 It's supposed to be funny. 621 01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:56,820 And so I think there's an odd-- I get the feeling-- I don't 622 01:21:56,820 --> 01:21:58,600 know-- but maybe I get the feeling 623 01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:00,270 that things are changing a bit. 624 01:22:00,270 --> 01:22:03,880 I have no problem at all about people 625 01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:05,769 applauding between movements. 626 01:22:05,769 --> 01:22:07,310 I think that in Mozart's time there's 627 01:22:07,310 --> 01:22:10,120 much more-- if he did a great lick on the piano I think 628 01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:15,014 people might have applauded like in a jazz club. 629 01:22:15,014 --> 01:22:16,430 They applaud the boring bass solo. 630 01:22:16,430 --> 01:22:18,460 I don't know. 631 01:22:18,460 --> 01:22:21,976 But I think that's how it was. 632 01:22:21,976 --> 01:22:24,050 SUSANNA OGATA: There are a lot of formalities now 633 01:22:24,050 --> 01:22:25,210 and it's just kind of sad. 634 01:22:25,210 --> 01:22:26,110 IAN WATSON: It's just silly really. 635 01:22:26,110 --> 01:22:27,651 SUSANNA OGATA: I mean, when you think 636 01:22:27,651 --> 01:22:30,420 that the Kreutzer sonata was finished about three hours 637 01:22:30,420 --> 01:22:34,770 before the concert and they were sight reading in the concert. 638 01:22:34,770 --> 01:22:36,621 That piece. 639 01:22:36,621 --> 01:22:38,120 And the violinist was looking over-- 640 01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:39,730 IAN WATSON: The violinist had never seen the piece before. 641 01:22:39,730 --> 01:22:41,563 SUSANNA OGATA: And he was off the manuscript 642 01:22:41,563 --> 01:22:44,040 over the shoulder of Beethoven. 643 01:22:44,040 --> 01:22:46,623 IAN WATSON: Can you imagine what that sounded like? 644 01:22:46,623 --> 01:22:49,199 TERESA NEFF: Beethoven writes in a very messy hand. 645 01:22:49,199 --> 01:22:49,990 SUSANNA OGATA: Yes. 646 01:22:49,990 --> 01:22:51,198 TERESA NEFF: I can't imagine. 647 01:22:51,198 --> 01:22:54,550 IAN WATSON: So I think another point, 648 01:22:54,550 --> 01:22:58,620 when we tend to think of-- and they are great works of art-- 649 01:22:58,620 --> 01:23:03,030 but Mozart, for example, he wrote commissions. 650 01:23:03,030 --> 01:23:05,210 He never had a job hardly. 651 01:23:05,210 --> 01:23:07,590 He got booted out of it very quickly. 652 01:23:07,590 --> 01:23:09,660 He just wrote on commission. 653 01:23:09,660 --> 01:23:12,740 And he wrote letters to his father 654 01:23:12,740 --> 01:23:15,610 saying that he'd found a D Major symphony 655 01:23:15,610 --> 01:23:19,170 in the bottom of a chest somewhere. 656 01:23:19,170 --> 01:23:20,620 He said, it's actually quite good. 657 01:23:20,620 --> 01:23:23,155 I don't remember writing it at all. 658 01:23:23,155 --> 01:23:24,477 This is the Symphony No. 659 01:23:24,477 --> 01:23:27,200 35, the "Haffner," which is one of the more well known ones. 660 01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:29,080 He didn't even remember writing it. 661 01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:32,060 And yet you see books this thick written about the Haffner 662 01:23:32,060 --> 01:23:32,950 symphony. 663 01:23:32,950 --> 01:23:37,440 Mozart himself couldn't remember writing it. 664 01:23:37,440 --> 01:23:40,820 And so I think that you he was just sort 665 01:23:40,820 --> 01:23:44,370 of knocking out a piece of work at the time and forgot about it 666 01:23:44,370 --> 01:23:45,780 and went on to the next one. 667 01:23:45,780 --> 01:23:50,416 It's an interesting way of being. 668 01:23:50,416 --> 01:23:52,310 TERESA NEFF: Well, I hate to say this 669 01:23:52,310 --> 01:23:55,500 but we are at the end of our class. 670 01:23:55,500 --> 01:23:58,990 And would you join me in thanking Susanna and Ian? 671 01:23:58,990 --> 01:24:02,290 [APPLAUSE] 672 01:24:10,390 --> 01:24:13,140 And I'm sure if you guys want to check out the piano.