1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,470 The following content is provided under a Creative 2 00:00:02,470 --> 00:00:03,880 Commons license. 3 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,920 Your support will help MIT OpenCourseWare continue to 4 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,570 offer high quality educational resources for free. 5 00:00:10,570 --> 00:00:13,470 To make a donation or view additional materials from 6 00:00:13,470 --> 00:00:19,290 hundreds of MIT courses, visit MIT OpenCourseWare at 7 00:00:19,290 --> 00:00:20,540 ocw.mit.edu. 8 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:34,520 PROFESSOR: OK, well, Mark Jarzombek is a professor of 9 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:36,520 architecture here and has written this really 10 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,230 interesting book. 11 00:00:38,230 --> 00:00:41,360 MARK JARZOMBEK: So if you have any questions about something 12 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,660 you don't understand, or you need to clarify or elaborate, 13 00:00:44,660 --> 00:00:46,175 just raise your hand and say so. 14 00:00:46,175 --> 00:00:48,940 I just sort of picked some images out. 15 00:00:48,940 --> 00:00:54,710 First, I'm sure you've seen the Rogers Building, which 16 00:00:54,710 --> 00:00:56,040 doesn't exist anymore, as you know. 17 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,030 I mean, this building still exists. 18 00:00:58,030 --> 00:00:59,890 I'm not sure what happened to the store. 19 00:00:59,890 --> 00:01:01,225 Did they go bankrupt? 20 00:01:01,225 --> 00:01:03,200 [INAUDIBLE]. 21 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,390 But this was torn down. 22 00:01:06,390 --> 00:01:10,090 But what I point out in my book is that if we look at 23 00:01:10,090 --> 00:01:15,720 this and we go, well, it's 1860s, and you want to make a 24 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:21,850 building for an institute that does sciences, what do you do? 25 00:01:21,850 --> 00:01:24,650 I mean, what should it look like? 26 00:01:24,650 --> 00:01:27,670 And so we may look at this and say, well, it's sort of a 27 00:01:27,670 --> 00:01:29,740 building like any other building. 28 00:01:29,740 --> 00:01:33,340 But it's sort of a bit of a problem because that type of a 29 00:01:33,340 --> 00:01:36,000 building didn't really exist. 30 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,470 So the architect did something that was pretty clever, but 31 00:01:39,470 --> 00:01:44,230 also says something about the world view. 32 00:01:44,230 --> 00:01:48,070 Basically the building is modeled a little bit on the 33 00:01:48,070 --> 00:01:48,880 Apsley House. 34 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,520 And basically is a gentleman's residence. 35 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,330 So you want to make a building. 36 00:01:54,330 --> 00:01:57,440 You want to make scientist and technology guys, miners 37 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,530 walking around in their big boots, you want to tell them 38 00:02:01,530 --> 00:02:03,740 that they're basically not just doing technology, but 39 00:02:03,740 --> 00:02:04,810 basically they're gentlemen. 40 00:02:04,810 --> 00:02:07,080 So the students that are coming in here are meant to be 41 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,070 raised at a level of gentlemen in the 19th 42 00:02:11,070 --> 00:02:13,970 century sense of that. 43 00:02:13,970 --> 00:02:15,630 They're sort of cultural holders of a 44 00:02:15,630 --> 00:02:16,930 type of cultural thing. 45 00:02:16,930 --> 00:02:20,270 They're not just wandering around, shuffling around with 46 00:02:20,270 --> 00:02:24,060 slide rulers in their hand thinking about science. 47 00:02:24,060 --> 00:02:27,720 They have a certain status in society. 48 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,370 So basically this is a gentleman's residence that is, 49 00:02:31,370 --> 00:02:34,700 then, sort of designed on the inside to be a school. 50 00:02:34,700 --> 00:02:38,780 So this says something about the transition of science into 51 00:02:38,780 --> 00:02:40,360 legitimacy. 52 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:45,310 And the type of premodern notion signs, where science 53 00:02:45,310 --> 00:02:50,820 was still associated with sort of a gentlemanly class and 54 00:02:50,820 --> 00:02:53,160 gentlemanly behavior. 55 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:59,740 So that is MIT's first source of claim, 56 00:02:59,740 --> 00:03:01,110 which was very expected. 57 00:03:01,110 --> 00:03:04,250 Perhaps you think of the mid-19th century worldview. 58 00:03:04,250 --> 00:03:09,560 Of course, what happens is that MIT grows gangbusters and 59 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,590 starts to spread out in every direction. 60 00:03:13,590 --> 00:03:16,930 So there you see the Rogers Building. 61 00:03:16,930 --> 00:03:19,690 And then there's their Walker building, which is a chemistry 62 00:03:19,690 --> 00:03:20,780 building, a beautiful building. 63 00:03:20,780 --> 00:03:23,820 One of the first buildings specifically designed for 64 00:03:23,820 --> 00:03:25,710 chemical fumes and so forth. 65 00:03:25,710 --> 00:03:30,030 And then here and there and right and left, the campus 66 00:03:30,030 --> 00:03:35,630 expands around Copley Square into warehouses and into sheds 67 00:03:35,630 --> 00:03:37,570 and other things. 68 00:03:37,570 --> 00:03:40,590 The Lowell Laboratory gets built here. 69 00:03:40,590 --> 00:03:42,560 But as you can see, after a while, it's 70 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:43,810 something like 20 buildings. 71 00:03:46,420 --> 00:03:51,730 The face was that not only is the buildings all over around 72 00:03:51,730 --> 00:03:52,880 Copley Square-- 73 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,036 which is difficult if you want to go from class to class in 74 00:03:55,036 --> 00:03:56,850 the middle of a snowstorm-- 75 00:03:56,850 --> 00:04:00,770 but also, science was changing, too. 76 00:04:00,770 --> 00:04:03,530 So the professors were complaining they needed dust 77 00:04:03,530 --> 00:04:05,690 free environments to do certain things. 78 00:04:05,690 --> 00:04:10,290 They needed laboratories that won't shake every time the 79 00:04:10,290 --> 00:04:12,250 beer truck rumbles by. 80 00:04:12,250 --> 00:04:15,810 So if you're in the middle of a city, 19th century cities 81 00:04:15,810 --> 00:04:20,630 where unbelievably stinky, fumy places filled with black 82 00:04:20,630 --> 00:04:23,040 soot from chimneys. 83 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:28,000 I mean, today clean air law has done a lot to our cities. 84 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,120 But you've got to imagine, into the winter the heavy odor 85 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,650 and cloud of soot making everything sort of black. 86 00:04:35,650 --> 00:04:38,210 And so if you do any experiments that require 87 00:04:38,210 --> 00:04:39,830 special atmospheres, and this and that. 88 00:04:39,830 --> 00:04:43,270 So the professors were complaining about 89 00:04:43,270 --> 00:04:44,130 being in the city. 90 00:04:44,130 --> 00:04:46,070 They wanted to be away from the city, away from the noise, 91 00:04:46,070 --> 00:04:48,170 and the pollution, and the sounds, and all 92 00:04:48,170 --> 00:04:49,880 that type of stuff. 93 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,770 So this was sort of one of the problems 94 00:04:52,770 --> 00:04:55,130 that the faculty faced. 95 00:04:55,130 --> 00:04:56,960 And one of the reasons that spread along 96 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,670 the desire to move. 97 00:05:01,670 --> 00:05:07,220 So then the question was, well, what you do? 98 00:05:07,220 --> 00:05:10,070 So you need a bigger building. 99 00:05:10,070 --> 00:05:14,840 So the model for this was actually in Europe, mainly in 100 00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:19,210 Germany, and then Switzerland. 101 00:05:19,210 --> 00:05:23,490 So the ETH was created, you see, almost at the same time, 102 00:05:23,490 --> 00:05:24,450 but designed a little bit earlier. 103 00:05:24,450 --> 00:05:26,640 Gigantic building. 104 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:33,660 So here, I mean, this makes MIT look, I mean, literally, 105 00:05:33,660 --> 00:05:36,710 like a joke compared to what the Swiss investment in 106 00:05:36,710 --> 00:05:39,010 technology was at that time. 107 00:05:39,010 --> 00:05:44,680 Huge building, massive amount of laboratories, huge library. 108 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:49,590 I mean, this was an institution of gigantic scale. 109 00:05:49,590 --> 00:05:54,300 So here we have the United States trying to create some 110 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:57,070 enthusiasm for the independence of science and 111 00:05:57,070 --> 00:06:02,000 learning and technology as a material, and basically 112 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,370 adopting, initially at least, not the German model, which 113 00:06:06,370 --> 00:06:08,890 was that this is a massive institution supported by the 114 00:06:08,890 --> 00:06:10,780 state government. 115 00:06:10,780 --> 00:06:11,850 And it still is. 116 00:06:11,850 --> 00:06:14,270 The ETH is financed and supported by the state 117 00:06:14,270 --> 00:06:14,590 government. 118 00:06:14,590 --> 00:06:16,920 If you're a professor there, the prime minister has to, 119 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:18,985 ultimately, accept your tenure proposal, not 120 00:06:18,985 --> 00:06:22,140 the university president. 121 00:06:22,140 --> 00:06:26,660 Whereas MIT adopted sort of the English gentleman model. 122 00:06:26,660 --> 00:06:31,070 Which is very low key, different worldview. 123 00:06:31,070 --> 00:06:35,300 Ultimately, of course, this wins out. 124 00:06:35,300 --> 00:06:38,080 But the transition is what's sort of 125 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,160 interesting about this. 126 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,790 So Robert Ware, who's founded the School of 127 00:06:43,790 --> 00:06:45,850 Architecture here. 128 00:06:45,850 --> 00:06:47,730 "The first principle of architecture is truthfulness, 129 00:06:47,730 --> 00:06:49,970 good sense, perspicuity. 130 00:06:49,970 --> 00:06:52,670 Considerations of method, order, form, clearness, 131 00:06:52,670 --> 00:06:55,280 precision, sobriety, are what make a good working style, 132 00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:57,600 both in writing and in building." So in other words, 133 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,460 he's describing a building. 134 00:07:00,460 --> 00:07:02,560 But in reality, he's also describing what it means to be 135 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:03,770 a gentleman. 136 00:07:03,770 --> 00:07:07,130 A gentleman is truthful, and good, and has great 137 00:07:07,130 --> 00:07:08,510 perspicuity. 138 00:07:08,510 --> 00:07:11,300 Order, form, clearness, precision, sobriety-- 139 00:07:11,300 --> 00:07:14,120 this is what you tell a young man to be. 140 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,770 So in some sense, we can sort of read through some of the 141 00:07:17,770 --> 00:07:22,620 architectural mandate a type of relationship to, in fact, 142 00:07:22,620 --> 00:07:25,720 MIT's mandate, which was what kind of men-- 143 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:27,780 because it was all men in those days-- what kind of man 144 00:07:27,780 --> 00:07:29,030 are we trying to shape here? 145 00:07:32,010 --> 00:07:34,630 But then, of course, the world changed. 146 00:07:34,630 --> 00:07:44,540 So in 1863, we have the four categories, of which basically 147 00:07:44,540 --> 00:07:48,670 fine arts and architecture is the only one 148 00:07:48,670 --> 00:07:50,820 that survives as such. 149 00:07:50,820 --> 00:07:54,130 Course four is the only one that sort of keeps us going. 150 00:07:54,130 --> 00:07:58,060 But you see in 1873 all of a sudden we have 151 00:07:58,060 --> 00:07:59,840 different type of world. 152 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:04,090 It's astonishing how in basically 10 years, MIT's 153 00:08:04,090 --> 00:08:05,860 mindset has changed. 154 00:08:05,860 --> 00:08:08,650 So before, we had agriculture. 155 00:08:08,650 --> 00:08:11,700 Farmer Joe wanted to figure out how to lay 156 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:13,190 out a field, right? 157 00:08:13,190 --> 00:08:16,120 Well, agriculture, we don't do agriculture anymore. 158 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,570 I mean, go out in Kansas for that. 159 00:08:19,570 --> 00:08:21,860 At the top of the heap is civil engineering now. 160 00:08:21,860 --> 00:08:25,850 So you can sort of see, you go from an institution that is 161 00:08:25,850 --> 00:08:28,650 really sort of about agriculture, geology, 162 00:08:28,650 --> 00:08:34,169 chemistry, very sort of oddly primitive. 163 00:08:34,169 --> 00:08:34,900 I don't know, you know? 164 00:08:34,900 --> 00:08:39,270 It's sort of an institution where we could sort of see 165 00:08:39,270 --> 00:08:41,390 modernity being formed. 166 00:08:41,390 --> 00:08:44,000 So civil engineering, mechanical engineering, 167 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:49,500 geology, architecture stays, chemistry. 168 00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:53,840 So here, history, geology, and chemistry were all one 169 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:54,630 department. 170 00:08:54,630 --> 00:08:57,010 Maybe it's sort of a little bit hard to imagine that. 171 00:08:57,010 --> 00:08:59,650 You know, natural history, geology, and chemistry all 172 00:08:59,650 --> 00:09:02,270 being sort of one thing. 173 00:09:02,270 --> 00:09:06,250 But we sort of imagine that during this time, there was 174 00:09:06,250 --> 00:09:12,730 still debate about, let's say, for example, 175 00:09:12,730 --> 00:09:14,890 what do you call these? 176 00:09:14,890 --> 00:09:16,390 Dinosaur bones in the sand. 177 00:09:16,390 --> 00:09:17,420 What do you call them? 178 00:09:17,420 --> 00:09:17,920 Fossils. 179 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:18,260 AUDIENCE: Fossils. 180 00:09:18,260 --> 00:09:18,910 MARK JARZOMBEK: Right, right. 181 00:09:18,910 --> 00:09:19,860 You don't know, OK. 182 00:09:19,860 --> 00:09:23,060 So up until 1820, 1830, they all said that God put the 183 00:09:23,060 --> 00:09:25,680 fossils there because they were the mistakes that when he 184 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:27,930 made heaven and earth, he made a few mistakes. 185 00:09:27,930 --> 00:09:31,980 So he put them in the ground so no one would see them. 186 00:09:31,980 --> 00:09:33,550 And this was a current theory. 187 00:09:33,550 --> 00:09:35,940 And people thought this was sort of it. 188 00:09:35,940 --> 00:09:40,350 So geology was sort of having to do with divinity, in a way. 189 00:09:40,350 --> 00:09:41,840 Because when you started digging, you encounter fossil. 190 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:43,290 It's like, there's God's mistake. 191 00:09:43,290 --> 00:09:44,370 And it's like, what do you do with it? 192 00:09:44,370 --> 00:09:46,370 I mean, he should cover it up. 193 00:09:46,370 --> 00:09:50,000 So geology, chemistry, everything, these ideas were 194 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,300 still floating around. 195 00:09:51,300 --> 00:09:52,490 I mean, not so much here. 196 00:09:52,490 --> 00:09:57,600 But you can sort of see geology wasn't what this is. 197 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,060 And you can see where geology is going. 198 00:09:59,060 --> 00:10:03,630 It goes from just looking at stones to mining. 199 00:10:03,630 --> 00:10:08,270 Which we can sort of see by the time we get to 1900 a much 200 00:10:08,270 --> 00:10:12,170 more sort of precise focus of how the sciences sort of 201 00:10:12,170 --> 00:10:14,410 operate in the real world now. 202 00:10:14,410 --> 00:10:16,920 Here this is sort of all very abstract. 203 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,640 Here we see the emergence of whole new genres of reality. 204 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,110 We have a philosophy department. 205 00:10:24,110 --> 00:10:27,570 Philosophy disappears and then, in a funny way, sort of 206 00:10:27,570 --> 00:10:30,770 comes back in the 20th century. 207 00:10:30,770 --> 00:10:35,110 So philosophy is still the holdover of the idea that you 208 00:10:35,110 --> 00:10:36,590 should know something about the world in a 209 00:10:36,590 --> 00:10:38,190 philosophical way. 210 00:10:38,190 --> 00:10:40,430 So by 1873, we see the emergence of the 211 00:10:40,430 --> 00:10:45,220 professionalization of the sciences, which means 212 00:10:45,220 --> 00:10:48,910 professional journals, publications. 213 00:10:48,910 --> 00:10:51,900 And think, all the things we assume completely normal today 214 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:54,500 just really didn't exist, actually, until really into 215 00:10:54,500 --> 00:10:58,980 the 1880s and 1890s, sort of journal publications and peer 216 00:10:58,980 --> 00:11:03,020 reviewed publications, and so forth like that. 217 00:11:03,020 --> 00:11:08,950 So then by 1900, we see we have now 13 departments. 218 00:11:08,950 --> 00:11:11,060 So it's sort of growing exponentially. 219 00:11:11,060 --> 00:11:12,510 And it has continued to grow. 220 00:11:12,510 --> 00:11:15,060 We got, I don't know, 23 AB now. 221 00:11:15,060 --> 00:11:19,760 I mean, we're at least in the mid '20s. 222 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,100 And we see new things. 223 00:11:24,450 --> 00:11:28,320 America's just had the Spanish American War. 224 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,670 Naval ships for the Defense Department are important. 225 00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:33,170 So we have a Naval architecture thing. 226 00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:39,250 The cities in the turn of the century were really terrible, 227 00:11:39,250 --> 00:11:41,580 complicated, messy places. 228 00:11:41,580 --> 00:11:43,080 The streets were not paved. 229 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,930 There were sewage problems, and so forth, and so on. 230 00:11:44,930 --> 00:11:48,810 So sanitary engineering comes into play along with sort of 231 00:11:48,810 --> 00:11:50,600 the conventional type thing. 232 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:55,200 So we have new departments and new programs being developed. 233 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,810 But the point is, in some sense, what we get here is 234 00:11:57,810 --> 00:12:02,880 really the modern notion of science that we just assume is 235 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:03,610 completely normal. 236 00:12:03,610 --> 00:12:07,630 We see it literally happening, if you will, decade by decade, 237 00:12:07,630 --> 00:12:10,600 rapidly changing into the professional world that we 238 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:11,740 have today. 239 00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:15,920 So the model of a gentleman's villa, it is 240 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,550 just clearly not working. 241 00:12:19,550 --> 00:12:23,600 But of course, the building remained to be functional for 242 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,410 a long time. 243 00:12:25,410 --> 00:12:27,910 So the first attempt to, in some sense, modernize MIT's 244 00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:29,600 look was the Walker building. 245 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,750 Here's the Rogers Building next to it. 246 00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:33,240 And at first you go, well, it doesn't look 247 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:34,760 all that much different. 248 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,560 But it was designed with these chimneys. 249 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:40,200 You see the air vent chimneys on the exterior facade so that 250 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,700 the chemistry laboratories would have these vents going 251 00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:45,940 up to vent the fumes. 252 00:12:45,940 --> 00:12:48,910 So instead of hiding the chimneys, the chimneys become, 253 00:12:48,910 --> 00:12:51,860 in fact, part of the whole architecture. 254 00:12:51,860 --> 00:12:56,410 And basically it's sort of the first real attempt to make a 255 00:12:56,410 --> 00:12:58,760 laboratory building at a monumental scale. 256 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,550 This is in Copley Square, right across 257 00:13:00,550 --> 00:13:01,840 from Trinity Church. 258 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:06,610 This is one of the best real state areas in the city. 259 00:13:06,610 --> 00:13:09,770 And to put a chemistry lab there, I mean, it's like, oh, 260 00:13:09,770 --> 00:13:11,340 you got to be kidding me, right? 261 00:13:11,340 --> 00:13:17,570 So it shows the capacity to sort of start to think of what 262 00:13:17,570 --> 00:13:19,890 a science building is at an urban scale. 263 00:13:19,890 --> 00:13:21,820 But still, it's a relatively small building. 264 00:13:28,540 --> 00:13:32,150 They were living in these type of warehouses. 265 00:13:32,150 --> 00:13:33,880 This was the architecture building 266 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,630 and engineering building. 267 00:13:35,630 --> 00:13:37,800 Which were useful, because you could much around in there. 268 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:42,320 And there was no damage done, really, if you 269 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,410 banged in to something. 270 00:13:45,410 --> 00:13:46,560 They made some of these experiments. 271 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:50,580 They made the lower laboratory down here, which at the time 272 00:13:50,580 --> 00:13:53,980 would have been the most advanced laboratory for 273 00:13:53,980 --> 00:13:55,640 electrical engineering. 274 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:57,310 They only used it for a few years. 275 00:13:59,950 --> 00:14:02,220 The building contractor was a guy called Gilbreth. 276 00:14:02,220 --> 00:14:04,670 Everybody seen Cheaper By The Dozen? 277 00:14:04,670 --> 00:14:09,000 Well, anyway, he's the one who built the building using new 278 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:09,530 techniques. 279 00:14:09,530 --> 00:14:10,950 Because he was famous. 280 00:14:10,950 --> 00:14:13,260 You know what he was famous for? 281 00:14:13,260 --> 00:14:15,210 The guy, Gilbreth? 282 00:14:15,210 --> 00:14:21,220 Well, he was interested in making labor less expensive. 283 00:14:21,220 --> 00:14:24,270 So the ways you do that is you study, let's say, you take a 284 00:14:24,270 --> 00:14:25,480 bricklayer. 285 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,070 And the bricklayer's got to go get a brick. 286 00:14:27,070 --> 00:14:29,570 And then he's got to bring the brick down. 287 00:14:29,570 --> 00:14:31,060 And then he's got to put a brick in. 288 00:14:31,060 --> 00:14:31,810 Then he's hungry. 289 00:14:31,810 --> 00:14:33,716 They he puts the chewing gum in his mouth. 290 00:14:33,716 --> 00:14:35,610 And he slathers something [INAUDIBLE]. 291 00:14:35,610 --> 00:14:38,010 Well, he figured out that takes a lot of time. 292 00:14:38,010 --> 00:14:40,390 So you have the dolly. 293 00:14:40,390 --> 00:14:41,730 And the dolly will bring the brick. 294 00:14:41,730 --> 00:14:42,870 One guy gives the brick. 295 00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:43,940 The other guy puts it down. 296 00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:44,920 The other guy slathers it. 297 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,550 So your job is just to take the brick and put it down. 298 00:14:47,550 --> 00:14:48,450 Take the brick, put it down. 299 00:14:48,450 --> 00:14:49,230 Take the brick, put it down. 300 00:14:49,230 --> 00:14:49,870 Take the brick. 301 00:14:49,870 --> 00:14:52,330 And the next guy's job is to go-- kuh-chunk, kuh-chunk, 302 00:14:52,330 --> 00:14:54,690 kuh-chunk, kuh-chunk, kuh-chunk, kuh-chunk. 303 00:14:54,690 --> 00:14:56,790 And you can build buildings a lot faster if you do this 304 00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:58,260 time-saving thing. 305 00:14:58,260 --> 00:15:01,260 He was the inventor-- 306 00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:03,190 or not the inventor but one of the great champions of 307 00:15:03,190 --> 00:15:05,390 time-saving labor. 308 00:15:05,390 --> 00:15:08,330 Ford Motor works would put it into mass production window to 309 00:15:08,330 --> 00:15:10,290 make a Model T Ford. 310 00:15:10,290 --> 00:15:12,940 So this was sort of advanced technology at the 311 00:15:12,940 --> 00:15:16,250 time, if you will. 312 00:15:16,250 --> 00:15:18,750 And of course, has debatable effects. 313 00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:20,910 But anyway. 314 00:15:20,910 --> 00:15:24,270 So anyway, there he is, Mr. Gilbreth, with his cheaper by 315 00:15:24,270 --> 00:15:25,890 the dozen family. 316 00:15:25,890 --> 00:15:26,940 And so they hired him. 317 00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:31,800 In other words, they brought in a new type of engineer to 318 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,185 experiment with a new type of building. 319 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:40,470 And so it shows MIT's search for the 320 00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:42,930 avant-garde of the time. 321 00:15:42,930 --> 00:15:45,030 So then you compare, of course, that 322 00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:46,290 there's MIT's building. 323 00:15:46,290 --> 00:15:49,290 And this is another building from 1861. 324 00:15:49,290 --> 00:15:51,760 The Opera by Charles Garnier in Paris. 325 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,140 I don't know if you've ever seen it. 326 00:15:53,140 --> 00:15:54,670 But if you go to Paris, you should see it. 327 00:15:54,670 --> 00:15:55,350 It's certainly one of the great 328 00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:56,510 buildings of the 19th century. 329 00:15:56,510 --> 00:15:58,220 I mean, [? vastly, ?] hugely 330 00:15:58,220 --> 00:16:02,130 beautiful, extravagant building. 331 00:16:02,130 --> 00:16:04,790 So once again, in Europe, they were making 332 00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:07,320 these gigantic things. 333 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,990 Whereas at MIT and Boston, there were still small little 334 00:16:10,990 --> 00:16:14,940 building after small little building. 335 00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:18,450 But they this world, which is sort of the Beaux-Arts 336 00:16:18,450 --> 00:16:23,410 architecture here is sort of a European development of how to 337 00:16:23,410 --> 00:16:25,840 make these buildings work within the city, and so forth. 338 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:27,850 Wasn't really in the United States yet. 339 00:16:27,850 --> 00:16:32,290 And I'd say its building styles were still English 340 00:16:32,290 --> 00:16:37,430 driven, still relatively small scale, still relatively modest 341 00:16:37,430 --> 00:16:41,870 in their desire in terms of spacial expression. 342 00:16:41,870 --> 00:16:46,920 So around the world, you were having these huge buildings 343 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,220 being built. 344 00:16:49,220 --> 00:16:51,930 And so here we are in Japan. 345 00:16:56,130 --> 00:16:56,890 Here's Cairo. 346 00:16:56,890 --> 00:16:59,720 I have to show you this because this is the old 347 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:00,890 building from the medieval period. 348 00:17:00,890 --> 00:17:05,990 And then they built this gigantic mosque here in 1910. 349 00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:09,540 And the Cairo National Museum of 1900, which is in the news 350 00:17:09,540 --> 00:17:11,160 a little bit today. 351 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,180 So Boston around 1900 would have looked like a real 352 00:17:15,180 --> 00:17:20,849 gritty, brick, working class place. 353 00:17:20,849 --> 00:17:24,569 Very few prestigious buildings, nothing really 354 00:17:24,569 --> 00:17:26,720 grand about the place at all. 355 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,700 You had the Back Bay that had been laid out. 356 00:17:29,700 --> 00:17:32,210 And you had some fine residential quarters. 357 00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:35,770 But you really didn't have high architecture, any 358 00:17:35,770 --> 00:17:39,500 examples of high architecture at all compared to almost 359 00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:41,850 everywhere else around the world. 360 00:17:41,850 --> 00:17:47,790 Well, in 1893, they brought in this French architect, a guy 361 00:17:47,790 --> 00:17:53,320 called Despradelle, to teach in the school of architecture. 362 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,730 And he sort of changed everything because he brought 363 00:17:56,730 --> 00:18:02,510 this much grander, much more imposing sort of tradition of 364 00:18:02,510 --> 00:18:04,870 sort of architectural world that was in 365 00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:06,600 Europe at the time. 366 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,030 And it was sort of a risk. 367 00:18:09,030 --> 00:18:10,390 And so they bought this guy. 368 00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:12,420 As you can see, he's sort of a strange character. 369 00:18:12,420 --> 00:18:15,330 The students sort of loved him. 370 00:18:15,330 --> 00:18:20,510 He was very quirky much beloved by the students. 371 00:18:20,510 --> 00:18:23,220 We taught them how to make these absolutely drop dead 372 00:18:23,220 --> 00:18:25,750 gorgeous drawings, some of which are in the museum. 373 00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:29,680 Hopefully we can, one day, exhibit them. 374 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,980 This drawing, which was gigantic, some 12 feet high or 375 00:18:32,980 --> 00:18:36,070 something, was for a building, of course, 376 00:18:36,070 --> 00:18:36,710 that was never built. 377 00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:39,350 I mean, it was impossible to build at the time. 378 00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:41,980 Some huge, huge, huge, huge monument sort of celebrating 379 00:18:41,980 --> 00:18:44,860 the Americas called the "Beacon of Progress." 380 00:18:44,860 --> 00:18:49,070 So actually it looks a little old fashioned, because it was, 381 00:18:49,070 --> 00:18:50,440 like, not a modern building. 382 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:51,770 But it would have been a really very 383 00:18:51,770 --> 00:18:54,060 early use of concrete. 384 00:18:54,060 --> 00:18:57,090 It was actually a very interesting type of edifice. 385 00:18:57,090 --> 00:18:59,920 And so we have to see it as much more progressive than we 386 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:02,360 today might see things. 387 00:19:06,410 --> 00:19:09,670 And then he went around and bought drawings for the 388 00:19:09,670 --> 00:19:11,020 students to learn. 389 00:19:11,020 --> 00:19:13,210 So this is another one of the leading architects of the 390 00:19:13,210 --> 00:19:15,306 time, a guy called Viollet-le-Duc. 391 00:19:15,306 --> 00:19:18,930 And he and Ware basically brought all these drawings 392 00:19:18,930 --> 00:19:23,580 from Europe for the architects to look at to teach them. 393 00:19:23,580 --> 00:19:27,990 So we have, of course, in the process, then, drawing 394 00:19:27,990 --> 00:19:31,370 capitals and things like that for presentation drawing. 395 00:19:31,370 --> 00:19:34,740 So all of a sudden, the principle of architecture, 396 00:19:34,740 --> 00:19:39,840 prestige, quality buildings sort of comes into play. 397 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,240 And these are just drawings from the archives made by 398 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,590 students here at the turn of the century. 399 00:19:46,590 --> 00:19:52,310 So the point is that basically he changes the architectural 400 00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:57,270 culture that's taught here from just basically more 401 00:19:57,270 --> 00:20:01,260 pragmatic architectural buildings to be a type of 402 00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:04,790 culture that really speaks to high-end architectural 403 00:20:04,790 --> 00:20:05,330 production. 404 00:20:05,330 --> 00:20:07,120 And MIT is really the first place in the 405 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:09,210 country which does that. 406 00:20:09,210 --> 00:20:12,400 Now that means you and I will look at this, and [INAUDIBLE] 407 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,050 all sort of old fashioned. 408 00:20:14,050 --> 00:20:15,610 We look at this and go, oh, this is the stuff that 409 00:20:15,610 --> 00:20:17,330 modernism sort of got rid of. 410 00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:21,010 But this would be a bit of a mistake-- 411 00:20:21,010 --> 00:20:26,140 this is a synagogue that was planned-- 412 00:20:26,140 --> 00:20:31,160 largely because 1900 and that era was an interesting moment 413 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:32,020 in history. 414 00:20:32,020 --> 00:20:34,260 There was the Spanish American War. 415 00:20:34,260 --> 00:20:39,430 And the two sort of, I guess, events was the 416 00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:40,635 market crash of 1893. 417 00:20:40,635 --> 00:20:43,430 1893 was the first stock market crash in the United 418 00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:45,020 States, the first great one. 419 00:20:45,020 --> 00:20:46,860 It's like we never learn. 420 00:20:46,860 --> 00:20:50,260 It was another big bank financial scandal of too many 421 00:20:50,260 --> 00:20:51,450 people buying too much land. 422 00:20:51,450 --> 00:20:53,220 And then all of a sudden, it went belly up. 423 00:20:53,220 --> 00:20:56,350 It was like, duh. 424 00:20:56,350 --> 00:21:00,530 So anyway, and basically everybody was out of a job. 425 00:21:03,050 --> 00:21:05,280 I mean, probably about 10 times worse than what we have 426 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,150 today, what we just recently experienced. 427 00:21:07,150 --> 00:21:10,090 And probably not quite as bad as the crash of '29. 428 00:21:10,090 --> 00:21:12,560 But a significant shock to the system. 429 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:17,580 And after that, the United States' warehouses were filled 430 00:21:17,580 --> 00:21:19,960 with stuff that no one could buy. 431 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:21,830 So what they did was they made it very cheap. 432 00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:23,270 And they shipped it around the world. 433 00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:26,830 And basically the United States, afterward from 1893, 434 00:21:26,830 --> 00:21:29,410 basically became an international supplier of 435 00:21:29,410 --> 00:21:31,290 things, in particular steel. 436 00:21:31,290 --> 00:21:36,360 So it discovered international markets after 1893. 437 00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:38,980 Then came the Spanish American War, where America now was a 438 00:21:38,980 --> 00:21:41,570 quasi-colonial imperial power. 439 00:21:41,570 --> 00:21:48,270 So by 1900, the United States had established itself as a 440 00:21:48,270 --> 00:21:52,350 network, global, expanding trade world. 441 00:21:52,350 --> 00:21:56,080 And it wanted to market itself in particular ways. 442 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,970 Well, what you could market, of course, is architecture. 443 00:22:00,970 --> 00:22:04,980 So MIT knows by teaching its students how to make these big 444 00:22:04,980 --> 00:22:08,660 and huge and grand buildings, whilst preparing them for big 445 00:22:08,660 --> 00:22:10,550 time commissions around the world. 446 00:22:10,550 --> 00:22:12,130 And it's not just these commissions. 447 00:22:12,130 --> 00:22:16,000 But it was the steel that came from the steel factories. 448 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,250 It was the parts that came from the 449 00:22:17,250 --> 00:22:18,710 American parts factories. 450 00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:21,090 It was the labor and the contractors that came from the 451 00:22:21,090 --> 00:22:21,910 labor contractor. 452 00:22:21,910 --> 00:22:24,890 So this was all originally controlled by the French, 453 00:22:24,890 --> 00:22:27,360 largely, who built their buildings as export 454 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:27,850 commodities. 455 00:22:27,850 --> 00:22:31,140 Now MIT's Department of Architecture really was sort 456 00:22:31,140 --> 00:22:35,010 of at the cusp of basically producing architecture as an 457 00:22:35,010 --> 00:22:36,190 export commodity. 458 00:22:36,190 --> 00:22:41,150 So it's not just that this Beaux-Arts architecture, as we 459 00:22:41,150 --> 00:22:44,490 call it today, is sort of frilly and cute. 460 00:22:44,490 --> 00:22:47,510 It basically was the first world export commodity. 461 00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:49,650 Because to make a building, you need steel, you need 462 00:22:49,650 --> 00:22:50,540 foundations, you need 463 00:22:50,540 --> 00:22:52,870 technology, you need engineers. 464 00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:54,320 At the end, it might look sort of interesting. 465 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,320 But it's the whole package. 466 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,040 So this is why MIT developed this. 467 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,220 And meanwhile, Harvard was looking at this. 468 00:23:01,220 --> 00:23:07,380 And they said, well, if MIT is gambling for the Beaux-Arts 469 00:23:07,380 --> 00:23:11,530 and the principle of world domination, we think that this 470 00:23:11,530 --> 00:23:12,600 is sort of not correct. 471 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,970 And we want architecture to be humble and appropriate to the 472 00:23:16,970 --> 00:23:17,960 human scale. 473 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,570 And so they went into sort of the 474 00:23:20,570 --> 00:23:22,100 anti-internationalist phase. 475 00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:24,880 They went into what's called the arts and crafts. 476 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,670 So whereas MIT went into sort of internationalism, 477 00:23:28,670 --> 00:23:33,050 Beaux-Arts, huge buildings, Harvard brought in faculty 478 00:23:33,050 --> 00:23:35,650 that made little Gothic things. 479 00:23:35,650 --> 00:23:41,340 Very beautiful, very sweet, very elegant. 480 00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:43,990 William Brigham was one of the professors there. 481 00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:45,880 And these are the things that he made. 482 00:23:48,820 --> 00:23:54,160 And you compare that with Allen Ross, who is a graduate 483 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,800 from here, who went out and built huge 484 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,570 buildings like this. 485 00:23:59,570 --> 00:24:05,780 Or Hood, a graduate from MIT who went off and did the 486 00:24:05,780 --> 00:24:06,440 Chicago Tribune. 487 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,620 He did other buildings, the Rockefeller Center, designed 488 00:24:09,620 --> 00:24:12,360 part of the Rockefeller Center, which were gigantic 489 00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:14,790 buildings, all about the progressive 490 00:24:14,790 --> 00:24:15,740 spirit and so forth. 491 00:24:15,740 --> 00:24:20,470 So this was the two approaches that MIT and Harvard had at 492 00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:22,000 the time in architecture. 493 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,900 MIT went for big-scale, urban, huge projects. 494 00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:30,280 Harvard went for the little scale, for the domestic, for 495 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,020 the house, and so forth. 496 00:24:32,020 --> 00:24:35,240 Eventually MIT would win that argument. 497 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,620 I mean, it is a short term or long term perspective on that. 498 00:24:38,620 --> 00:24:42,070 And Harvard would eventually bring in a French architect in 499 00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:44,230 the first decades of the 20th century. 500 00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:48,450 And that was sort of the end of the arts and crafts. 501 00:24:48,450 --> 00:24:51,720 And so one of the characters that sort of comes in is, of 502 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,390 course, Bosworth, who is a product of MIT. 503 00:24:55,390 --> 00:24:57,800 So he, in some sense, is a student of Despradelle. 504 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,060 He knows and understands Despradelle's principle of 505 00:25:01,060 --> 00:25:07,670 buildings that represent the big international scale. 506 00:25:07,670 --> 00:25:11,740 Not buildings that are going to be humble, and sweet, and 507 00:25:11,740 --> 00:25:13,830 Gothic, and nostalgic. 508 00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:18,380 So the project that he designs for MIT is at that large, 509 00:25:18,380 --> 00:25:19,310 international scale. 510 00:25:19,310 --> 00:25:23,590 It's meant to be big and grand. 511 00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:28,680 Now he worked for various people. 512 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:36,120 But including a man called Fish-- who was an AT&T CEO-- 513 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:40,710 and Ware, and some other people, and Rockefellers. 514 00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:43,360 He was sort of like a gentleman's architect. 515 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:44,600 He didn't have a big practice. 516 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:45,770 He had a small practice. 517 00:25:45,770 --> 00:25:49,060 But basically these super rich people would bring him in to 518 00:25:49,060 --> 00:25:49,660 design buildings. 519 00:25:49,660 --> 00:25:50,640 So this is one of the buildings are 520 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:51,760 designed in New York. 521 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,450 It's literally right next to, no longer the World Trade 522 00:25:55,450 --> 00:25:59,230 Center, the towers which you don't see anymore, which would 523 00:25:59,230 --> 00:26:00,570 be right there. 524 00:26:00,570 --> 00:26:04,650 So if any of you know New York, the Wall Street area, 525 00:26:04,650 --> 00:26:06,510 you would hopefully know this building. 526 00:26:06,510 --> 00:26:11,140 Really a gorgeous building, strictly neoclassical. 527 00:26:11,140 --> 00:26:14,410 It has a Doric on the inside, ionic on the outside. 528 00:26:14,410 --> 00:26:15,770 But it's a steel building. 529 00:26:15,770 --> 00:26:17,540 Basically it's a modern steel building wrapped in 530 00:26:17,540 --> 00:26:19,790 this sort of casing. 531 00:26:19,790 --> 00:26:24,920 And the casing is meant to show the stability of AT&T, 532 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:26,880 the magnificence of it as well. 533 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,050 So these buildings, which we may look at as sort of a 534 00:26:30,050 --> 00:26:34,730 little bit old fashioned were, at that time, all about the 535 00:26:34,730 --> 00:26:36,130 bravura of these new 536 00:26:36,130 --> 00:26:38,110 corporations that were emerging. 537 00:26:38,110 --> 00:26:40,100 So in particular, sort of AT&T-- 538 00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:42,470 AUDIENCE: Is that the West Street building? 539 00:26:42,470 --> 00:26:43,547 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah. 540 00:26:43,547 --> 00:26:44,975 AUDIENCE: That's where Bell Labs is 541 00:26:44,975 --> 00:26:46,050 founded, in that building. 542 00:26:46,050 --> 00:26:46,900 Bell Labs is founded in that building. 543 00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:47,460 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah, that's right. 544 00:26:47,460 --> 00:26:50,006 Bell Labs is founded here. 545 00:26:50,006 --> 00:26:52,970 That's right. 546 00:26:52,970 --> 00:26:59,710 So when MIT, then, was making the move, they didn't talk to 547 00:26:59,710 --> 00:27:00,410 Bosworth initially. 548 00:27:00,410 --> 00:27:03,650 It came a little bit later. 549 00:27:03,650 --> 00:27:04,720 There's this huge institution. 550 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:05,710 They're having these problems. 551 00:27:05,710 --> 00:27:09,870 And they were going, well, we need to find somebody to make 552 00:27:09,870 --> 00:27:10,340 the design. 553 00:27:10,340 --> 00:27:13,900 So they hire this guy called Childs. 554 00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:16,835 Childs was an expert in sanitation engineering. 555 00:27:16,835 --> 00:27:20,820 He made the sewer lines for Brookline. 556 00:27:20,820 --> 00:27:22,350 I mean, OK, he's an OK architect. 557 00:27:22,350 --> 00:27:23,300 But I mean, the guy makes sewer lines, 558 00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:26,260 for crying out loud. 559 00:27:26,260 --> 00:27:28,240 So he made a project. 560 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:29,755 And at first, it looks OK. 561 00:27:29,755 --> 00:27:31,240 He's got a thing. 562 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,490 It's got an esplanade. 563 00:27:32,490 --> 00:27:35,240 It's got its funny towers, and so forth like that. 564 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:41,730 But fortunately, they realized it's really bad. 565 00:27:41,730 --> 00:27:44,450 I mean, it's really, really, really, really bad. 566 00:27:44,450 --> 00:27:48,030 So his idea was that X marks the spot. 567 00:27:48,030 --> 00:27:49,040 I mean, literally. 568 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,440 And that this line, if you look at it, points to the 569 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:52,020 State House. 570 00:27:52,020 --> 00:27:54,520 Because the State House was where the money comes from. 571 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,470 So you want an avenue that when I can look down, I can 572 00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:57,720 see the State House and say, thank you 573 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:58,500 very much, State House. 574 00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:00,210 Even though State House was giving it practically nothing. 575 00:28:00,210 --> 00:28:02,190 They were practically bankrupt. 576 00:28:02,190 --> 00:28:04,050 So I don't know where these lines would be pointing to. 577 00:28:04,050 --> 00:28:06,980 But they're just off into distance somewhere. 578 00:28:06,980 --> 00:28:08,920 And then, as you see, it's not really symmetrical. 579 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:09,970 One has got longer. 580 00:28:09,970 --> 00:28:11,130 And then you see there's a track. 581 00:28:11,130 --> 00:28:15,630 And you see here one building bumps on the track. 582 00:28:15,630 --> 00:28:18,641 It's really sort of weird, a weird building, right? 583 00:28:18,641 --> 00:28:20,510 So not a good architect. 584 00:28:20,510 --> 00:28:23,515 And obviously somebody complained about it. 585 00:28:23,515 --> 00:28:25,510 Well, the guy who complained about it was this man called 586 00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:29,060 Freeman who was a civil engineer who would later go 587 00:28:29,060 --> 00:28:32,520 off and design the canals for Panama Canal. 588 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,260 So this was a really top civil engineer. 589 00:28:36,260 --> 00:28:41,000 And compared to, if you will, some local hokey-bonky 590 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,120 architect that they found in some sort 591 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,150 of neighboring village. 592 00:28:45,150 --> 00:28:47,090 So Freeman comes on the plane and says, we've got to get rid 593 00:28:47,090 --> 00:28:47,750 of all these architects. 594 00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:49,390 They don't know what they're talking about. 595 00:28:49,390 --> 00:28:54,070 And convinces the president, Maclaurin, to fund him to do 596 00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:56,970 some research on what MIT needs to do. 597 00:28:56,970 --> 00:28:58,280 So he travels around the world. 598 00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:58,900 He goes to Mexico. 599 00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:00,360 He goes to the United States. 600 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:00,790 He goes to Canada. 601 00:29:00,790 --> 00:29:02,840 He goes to Germany, and France, and Italy. 602 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,770 And he collects this portfolio of plans and photographs. 603 00:29:07,770 --> 00:29:10,440 And then produces his report that I publish at 604 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,320 the end in my book. 605 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,730 And he falls in love with the German model of buildings, 606 00:29:14,730 --> 00:29:16,100 like the ones that I had showed you. 607 00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:19,030 And he said that the Germans and the Swiss had come up 608 00:29:19,030 --> 00:29:22,480 already 50 years earlier with this 609 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,050 notion of a giant building. 610 00:29:25,050 --> 00:29:29,000 Not one building in sort of the landscape in the 611 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,140 gentlemanly fashion. 612 00:29:30,140 --> 00:29:35,250 But huge, mega structures that if you go to Berlin, and you 613 00:29:35,250 --> 00:29:37,440 go to the Technical University in Berlin, or these 614 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:38,700 universities in Zurich. 615 00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:40,770 And so he puts the map of them together. 616 00:29:40,770 --> 00:29:42,710 And he says, this is what MIT should do. 617 00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:43,660 I mean, this is what we need. 618 00:29:43,660 --> 00:29:46,125 We need a mega structure, not just a little 619 00:29:46,125 --> 00:29:47,700 old building somewhere. 620 00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:51,870 And then to make his point, he makes a design which he says, 621 00:29:51,870 --> 00:29:54,560 OK, this is what a bad architect would do. 622 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:55,860 We'll have the architecture department. 623 00:29:55,860 --> 00:29:56,710 We have a chemistry department. 624 00:29:56,710 --> 00:29:57,930 We have a physics department. 625 00:29:57,930 --> 00:29:59,350 We've got an electrical department. 626 00:29:59,350 --> 00:30:00,860 We got some labs. 627 00:30:00,860 --> 00:30:03,160 We'll just scatter them around, whatever, willy-nilly, 628 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:04,970 and call that a campus. 629 00:30:04,970 --> 00:30:09,190 And so he makes this sort of fake plan, if you will, to 630 00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:12,550 show this is how we would do it if we wanted to be a little 631 00:30:12,550 --> 00:30:13,250 bit like Harvard. 632 00:30:13,250 --> 00:30:15,080 And we might have a quad in there, and so forth. 633 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:15,960 He hated architects. 634 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,500 He thought architects were pompous arrowheads. 635 00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:21,470 He calls them beauty makers. 636 00:30:21,470 --> 00:30:23,270 And basically the world should be 637 00:30:23,270 --> 00:30:25,100 designed by civil engineers. 638 00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:28,030 And this was sort of an interesting moment where MIT 639 00:30:28,030 --> 00:30:30,590 Civil Engineering Department is sort of asserting itself in 640 00:30:30,590 --> 00:30:34,160 the architectural world against the Beaux-Arts. 641 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,180 So he doesn't like the Beaux-Arts at all. 642 00:30:36,180 --> 00:30:37,900 He doesn't understand, really. 643 00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:41,430 Because basically by the 1910s, and so forth, what is 644 00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:47,310 being exported is precisely dams, and bridges, and canals, 645 00:30:47,310 --> 00:30:49,040 and so forth, not buildings. 646 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,920 So this is where huge investments of exportation of 647 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,670 MIT's position in the world has to do with civil 648 00:30:55,670 --> 00:30:56,740 engineering. 649 00:30:56,740 --> 00:30:59,730 And architecture's now a little bit sort of on a 650 00:30:59,730 --> 00:31:01,280 smaller scale. 651 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:06,640 So his plan for MIT looks actually quite like what MIT 652 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:07,710 looks like. 653 00:31:07,710 --> 00:31:09,340 Basically it's a concrete building. 654 00:31:09,340 --> 00:31:12,410 Concrete, because it won't burn. 655 00:31:12,410 --> 00:31:14,080 And today we go, concrete? 656 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:14,730 The hell with concrete. 657 00:31:14,730 --> 00:31:17,520 But you've got to remember, the Romans had concrete. 658 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,140 And then sometime in the Middle Ages because they 659 00:31:19,140 --> 00:31:20,080 didn't believe in science, they 660 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,250 forgot how to make concrete. 661 00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:23,500 And then no one knew what concrete was. 662 00:31:23,500 --> 00:31:25,610 I mean, it had been completely forgotten, 663 00:31:25,610 --> 00:31:26,880 basically, until the 1880s. 664 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,240 And people were going, God, we could make concrete now. 665 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:30,660 So they started making concrete. 666 00:31:30,660 --> 00:31:34,410 And people were very uncertain about it. 667 00:31:34,410 --> 00:31:37,060 Because they needed to test it, and stretch it, and all 668 00:31:37,060 --> 00:31:37,460 these things. 669 00:31:37,460 --> 00:31:41,910 And then in the early 20th century, they finally figured 670 00:31:41,910 --> 00:31:45,120 out that by putting steel mesh into the concrete, you can 671 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:46,860 sort of give it a substance. 672 00:31:46,860 --> 00:31:48,660 And it can both be compressed and, in 673 00:31:48,660 --> 00:31:50,060 some sense, also intention. 674 00:31:50,060 --> 00:31:52,660 So that made concrete into a basically usable thing. 675 00:31:52,660 --> 00:31:57,190 But it was still seen as sort of a low material. 676 00:31:57,190 --> 00:32:00,560 If you do a public building, it had to be brick. 677 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,180 Brick was seen as prestigious-- 678 00:32:02,180 --> 00:32:03,420 stone, marble. 679 00:32:03,420 --> 00:32:06,340 The last thing you want to do is concrete. 680 00:32:06,340 --> 00:32:08,180 The advantage of concrete, of course, is that it's really 681 00:32:08,180 --> 00:32:09,780 good against fires. 682 00:32:09,780 --> 00:32:12,340 And the building doesn't shake when the 683 00:32:12,340 --> 00:32:14,240 trucks go rumbling by. 684 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,120 So he designed for this building to be in concrete. 685 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,060 And it would have been, and in fact, when it was built, the 686 00:32:19,060 --> 00:32:22,030 largest concrete building in the world, some million square 687 00:32:22,030 --> 00:32:25,040 feet, sort of giant structure. 688 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:30,030 And that in itself is, in some senses, another aspect of MIT 689 00:32:30,030 --> 00:32:33,160 reaching out to a type of really being the most modern 690 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,420 thing available. 691 00:32:35,420 --> 00:32:38,150 So this is another building designed as a shoe olfactory. 692 00:32:38,150 --> 00:32:41,410 And you can sort of see it has the same sort of principle, a 693 00:32:41,410 --> 00:32:43,750 concrete structure with these columns going down the middle 694 00:32:43,750 --> 00:32:46,320 that become the corridor. 695 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:52,200 And then all you have to do is makes slabs, and then the 696 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,740 circulation system for people to go up and down. 697 00:32:56,740 --> 00:32:59,190 So basically the concrete columns, 698 00:32:59,190 --> 00:33:00,960 circulations in the corners. 699 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,920 Here is an auditorium. 700 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,680 And then behind here was various laboratories for the 701 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,380 electrical engineers and whatnot. 702 00:33:10,380 --> 00:33:11,060 So he did that. 703 00:33:11,060 --> 00:33:13,630 And MIT thought that was all pretty good. 704 00:33:13,630 --> 00:33:18,180 But they got a little nervous because they still wanted the 705 00:33:18,180 --> 00:33:20,260 architects to come and give a blessing to the building. 706 00:33:20,260 --> 00:33:22,460 They had this being built. 707 00:33:22,460 --> 00:33:25,020 Unfortunately, the skin of it would have still had some 708 00:33:25,020 --> 00:33:26,630 classical furnishings. 709 00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:27,620 Oh, he wanted the skin. 710 00:33:27,620 --> 00:33:31,910 The skin was going to be out of ceramic, white ceramic, so 711 00:33:31,910 --> 00:33:32,790 that you could wash it down. 712 00:33:32,790 --> 00:33:35,160 You got to remember, in the winter all the soot makes all 713 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,480 the buildings black. 714 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:37,690 So he didn't like that. 715 00:33:37,690 --> 00:33:39,870 So he invented this sort of ceramic that you could just 716 00:33:39,870 --> 00:33:43,650 hose down and the building would be very gleaming in the 717 00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:44,690 spring again. 718 00:33:44,690 --> 00:33:48,950 So all very clever, very practical, very useful. 719 00:33:48,950 --> 00:33:51,280 But MIT was a little nervous. 720 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,660 So they went to, as many institutions 721 00:33:53,660 --> 00:33:56,120 do, the power elite. 722 00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:02,090 So at some moment, President Maclaurin called up 723 00:34:02,090 --> 00:34:08,239 Rockefeller and said, hey, Rocky, we're building a 724 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:09,219 building here. 725 00:34:09,219 --> 00:34:11,830 And can you recommend something? 726 00:34:11,830 --> 00:34:14,860 So Rockefeller, and this is Theodore Vail. 727 00:34:14,860 --> 00:34:18,370 Theodore Vail's the President of AT&T. And you see, he's on 728 00:34:18,370 --> 00:34:20,320 the telephone. 729 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:26,420 And he's in his little bungalow in 730 00:34:26,420 --> 00:34:29,229 Jekyll Point in Carolinas. 731 00:34:29,229 --> 00:34:31,360 They had a little villa out there. 732 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:36,080 And this is the first transatlantic telephone call 733 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,760 from his little bungalow in Jekyll Island-- and that's 734 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,639 where all the rich people lived-- 735 00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:42,429 to California. 736 00:34:42,429 --> 00:34:45,009 So this is the moment where he's calling this guy and 737 00:34:45,009 --> 00:34:46,889 talking to him in California. 738 00:34:46,889 --> 00:34:49,500 And so he's sitting next to his buddy, another 739 00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:52,060 millionaire, Rockefeller. 740 00:34:52,060 --> 00:34:54,730 And who are the people behind him? 741 00:34:54,730 --> 00:34:56,820 Well, they're his architects. 742 00:34:56,820 --> 00:35:00,780 So here he is at this unbelievably amazing moment. 743 00:35:00,780 --> 00:35:03,720 And it could be his daughter. 744 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:04,530 It could be his wife. 745 00:35:04,530 --> 00:35:06,990 It could be some engineers. 746 00:35:06,990 --> 00:35:12,610 But he wants to sort of memorialize this moment by the 747 00:35:12,610 --> 00:35:14,300 two guys being on the telephone. 748 00:35:14,300 --> 00:35:16,320 And the architects are behind them who are going to get the 749 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,265 commissions to build the buildings that will represent 750 00:35:18,265 --> 00:35:20,090 them in the world. 751 00:35:20,090 --> 00:35:24,130 So we saw the one that Bosworth has just done. 752 00:35:24,130 --> 00:35:25,990 You see him beautifully attired. 753 00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:27,610 He knows how to dress in those days. 754 00:35:27,610 --> 00:35:30,720 He's an MIT gentleman. 755 00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:33,280 And so basically we don't know exactly all 756 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:33,940 of the ins and outs. 757 00:35:33,940 --> 00:35:38,310 But more or less, Maclaurin basically calls up 758 00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:39,420 both of these men. 759 00:35:39,420 --> 00:35:42,530 And they both say Bosworth is the man to do it. 760 00:35:42,530 --> 00:35:43,720 So there was no competition. 761 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:46,010 There was no announcement in the paper 762 00:35:46,010 --> 00:35:47,360 looking for an architect. 763 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,450 There was no first they just went down the street and found 764 00:35:50,450 --> 00:35:52,900 the first shingle where the guy said, I'm an architect. 765 00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:57,940 Here they called up the top CEOs and said, we need a guy 766 00:35:57,940 --> 00:36:00,480 who can do this building that you trust. 767 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,930 Because we don't need simply someone who can make the 768 00:36:03,930 --> 00:36:06,320 building in a pragmatic way. 769 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,410 We need someone who can give us the representational 770 00:36:09,410 --> 00:36:12,070 capacity that architects can bring. 771 00:36:12,070 --> 00:36:14,260 So they pointed to Bosworth. 772 00:36:14,260 --> 00:36:17,860 Now Bosworth used Freeman's plans. 773 00:36:17,860 --> 00:36:19,290 Basically built Freeman's building. 774 00:36:19,290 --> 00:36:20,430 Here it is, you can see. 775 00:36:20,430 --> 00:36:24,900 And had this been built more or less like it was, and glass 776 00:36:24,900 --> 00:36:27,310 put in, it would have been the first, the largest, and the 777 00:36:27,310 --> 00:36:30,090 most important modern building in the history of ever. 778 00:36:30,090 --> 00:36:35,480 So 1913, it was just when modernism was starting to be 779 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,190 discussed in Europe as well. 780 00:36:38,190 --> 00:36:40,410 But the Europeans would eventually figure out they're 781 00:36:40,410 --> 00:36:43,520 just putting glass. 782 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,880 Let's get rid of all the skin. 783 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,640 Americans were a little bit more reluctant to do that. 784 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,070 And so that's why the modernism began in Europe. 785 00:36:52,070 --> 00:36:55,420 But this is basically a modern building and would have been 786 00:36:55,420 --> 00:36:59,380 in every history book had they just stopped there. 787 00:36:59,380 --> 00:37:00,510 But they didn't. 788 00:37:00,510 --> 00:37:02,230 And they put the skin on it. 789 00:37:02,230 --> 00:37:05,680 But you can get a sense of basically the sort of radical, 790 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,050 modern, clean, functional aesthetic that comes from 791 00:37:08,050 --> 00:37:10,390 Freeman in some of the buildings and some of the 792 00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:11,490 rooms that are on the corner. 793 00:37:11,490 --> 00:37:12,380 This is an old room now. 794 00:37:12,380 --> 00:37:13,350 It's got a sunk ceiling. 795 00:37:13,350 --> 00:37:15,210 I mean, we do all this stuff to it. 796 00:37:15,210 --> 00:37:20,770 And you get a very cushy, different world today. 797 00:37:20,770 --> 00:37:24,360 But you get a little bit of a sense of Vail, who wanted to 798 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,980 donate his library to MIT. 799 00:37:26,980 --> 00:37:31,170 And he wanted, of course, Bosworth to design the dome to 800 00:37:31,170 --> 00:37:32,530 house this library. 801 00:37:32,530 --> 00:37:34,440 So this is the Vail Library. 802 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,090 And we see it as it was originally was. 803 00:37:37,090 --> 00:37:38,720 Now today, it'd look like a parking garage with these 804 00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:40,110 stupid lamps. 805 00:37:40,110 --> 00:37:43,770 And of course, I mean, I just go in there, I just really 806 00:37:43,770 --> 00:37:45,010 want to vomit. 807 00:37:45,010 --> 00:37:46,880 It's just really, really, really bad. 808 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,950 And then in 1941, they painted the dome. 809 00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:53,250 So they thought the German airplane bombers were going to 810 00:37:53,250 --> 00:37:54,270 come and bomb MIT. 811 00:37:54,270 --> 00:37:57,860 So they painted the dome so that you could turn the lights 812 00:37:57,860 --> 00:37:59,810 off and there wouldn't be any lights. 813 00:37:59,810 --> 00:38:03,160 Of course, the German bombers never made it to MIT. 814 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,380 And everyone forgot to take off the paint. 815 00:38:06,380 --> 00:38:07,840 So you go in there and it's sort of dark. 816 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,920 And you don't have the oculus, you know, with this warmth of 817 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:11,790 the light coming down. 818 00:38:11,790 --> 00:38:13,645 And of course, these wonderful chairs and people 819 00:38:13,645 --> 00:38:14,880 just reading there. 820 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,060 Instead you've got these sort of bean bags and kids sleeping 821 00:38:19,060 --> 00:38:22,430 and snoring right and left. 822 00:38:22,430 --> 00:38:24,570 So hopefully that can be done something about that. 823 00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:30,560 So Bosworth took the modern building, basically, and 824 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,490 wrapped, as you can sort of see, in a restrained 825 00:38:34,490 --> 00:38:39,070 classical, not the glorious, usually excessive classicism 826 00:38:39,070 --> 00:38:40,250 that you might find other places. 827 00:38:40,250 --> 00:38:42,890 But a relatively restrained classicism. 828 00:38:42,890 --> 00:38:48,080 Very simple sandstone facade. 829 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,470 And of course, the front of it. 830 00:38:51,470 --> 00:38:53,740 Of course, the whole thing was paved, because this was, in 831 00:38:53,740 --> 00:38:57,350 some sense, the urban center of the building. 832 00:38:57,350 --> 00:39:00,570 In the '20s and '30s, paving is hard to do. 833 00:39:00,570 --> 00:39:01,080 You've got to maintain it. 834 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,710 And if you don't maintain it, things and weeds grow. 835 00:39:03,710 --> 00:39:05,510 And then the paving does this and this. 836 00:39:05,510 --> 00:39:08,370 And finally, you just rip the whole crap out and put in a 837 00:39:08,370 --> 00:39:09,850 few plants. 838 00:39:09,850 --> 00:39:11,680 So that's what they did. 839 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,320 And made it into a park so that you can't see the 840 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:14,840 building at all. 841 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,660 But the building was meant to be sort of really, really 842 00:39:17,660 --> 00:39:22,020 visible, this white, beautiful structure, visible 843 00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:24,880 from across the river. 844 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,580 Clearly a statement of 845 00:39:26,580 --> 00:39:28,790 constitutionality in the landscape. 846 00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:32,920 And then it was opened in a big celebration where Vail 847 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,350 gave all the MIT alumni in the various clubs around the 848 00:39:37,350 --> 00:39:39,210 country headsets. 849 00:39:39,210 --> 00:39:42,220 I think this is in Kansas. 850 00:39:42,220 --> 00:39:44,900 And so they're all listening to the speech that was taking 851 00:39:44,900 --> 00:39:47,960 place during the opening ceremony, you 852 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:48,820 know, all at the same. 853 00:39:48,820 --> 00:39:50,390 So it was the first sort of simulcast-- 854 00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:53,820 I don't know, that wouldn't be the right phrase-- 855 00:39:53,820 --> 00:39:57,210 simultaneous transmission of sound in the 856 00:39:57,210 --> 00:39:59,220 history of the world. 857 00:39:59,220 --> 00:40:01,370 And to make sure that people understood, there was a 858 00:40:01,370 --> 00:40:09,560 relationship between AT&T and his donor, Vail, and MIT. 859 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,800 So this is the front of the AT&T headquarters. 860 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,830 And here you can see the doors of them. 861 00:40:15,830 --> 00:40:18,680 And here you see the doors of MIT, which are basically the 862 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:19,930 same doors. 863 00:40:19,930 --> 00:40:21,810 So when you walk into the doors, you're basically 864 00:40:21,810 --> 00:40:24,330 walking into the doors that say, thank you, Mr. 865 00:40:24,330 --> 00:40:27,260 Vail for your gift. 866 00:40:27,260 --> 00:40:28,180 I mean, it's a bad photograph. 867 00:40:28,180 --> 00:40:29,770 Just take my word for it. 868 00:40:29,770 --> 00:40:32,120 It's the same doors. 869 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:37,350 It says so even on the construction drawings, copied 870 00:40:37,350 --> 00:40:41,310 the drawings from the AT&T headquarters. 871 00:40:41,310 --> 00:40:45,270 So MIT's relationship with AT&T, with electrical 872 00:40:45,270 --> 00:40:49,090 engineering, with this progressive corporate world is 873 00:40:49,090 --> 00:40:50,670 sort of cemented in the building. 874 00:40:50,670 --> 00:40:53,060 So the building we could say looks like classical. 875 00:40:53,060 --> 00:40:56,870 But in reality, what it's doing is giving MIT what it 876 00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:59,840 really wanted, which was a type of relationship to the 877 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:00,560 corporate America. 878 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,740 Corporate America we assume has been 879 00:41:02,740 --> 00:41:04,520 around for 8,000 years. 880 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:05,080 It really hasn't. 881 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,000 It really starts to emerge, these giant corporations, 882 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,650 exactly at this moment. 883 00:41:09,650 --> 00:41:13,430 So at that level, this building does what was 884 00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:15,120 happening in corporate America, too. 885 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,820 These large, impressive, institutional buildings in the 886 00:41:17,820 --> 00:41:22,070 landscape that are referring to the classical past as a way 887 00:41:22,070 --> 00:41:24,630 to sort of stabilize the idea that we're here forever. 888 00:41:24,630 --> 00:41:26,900 Even though we're only a few years old, don't worry, like 889 00:41:26,900 --> 00:41:31,800 the Doric columns, we'll be around for a long time. 890 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,350 Good luck. 891 00:41:33,350 --> 00:41:39,290 So of course, this building refers partially to the dome 892 00:41:39,290 --> 00:41:41,005 of the Pantheon in Rome. 893 00:41:41,005 --> 00:41:44,690 I hope some of you have seen that. 894 00:41:44,690 --> 00:41:45,810 So we have the dome. 895 00:41:45,810 --> 00:41:48,013 And then we have these sort of columns in front. 896 00:41:48,013 --> 00:41:52,290 There are eight columns in front of the real Pantheon. 897 00:41:52,290 --> 00:41:55,230 Whereas there are 10 columns sort of here. 898 00:41:55,230 --> 00:41:56,830 And of course, the dome is much, much, 899 00:41:56,830 --> 00:41:57,730 much, much, much, higher. 900 00:41:57,730 --> 00:42:00,185 Because the dome in the Pantheon is very low. 901 00:42:00,185 --> 00:42:02,620 And actually, you don't see it all. 902 00:42:02,620 --> 00:42:05,410 You can sort of see it if you're way up high and you can 903 00:42:05,410 --> 00:42:06,060 sort of photograph it. 904 00:42:06,060 --> 00:42:09,280 But from the street level, you don't see the dome at all. 905 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,250 So it's not an imitation. 906 00:42:11,250 --> 00:42:15,350 But clearly, obviously he's saying the dome of the 907 00:42:15,350 --> 00:42:18,190 Pantheon is one of the great buildings. 908 00:42:18,190 --> 00:42:21,070 Clearly the pantheon translated 909 00:42:21,070 --> 00:42:22,660 into the idea of learning. 910 00:42:22,660 --> 00:42:25,400 And so the Enlightenment project of the unification of 911 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,220 the sciences. 912 00:42:27,220 --> 00:42:29,420 So that's sort of part of it. 913 00:42:29,420 --> 00:42:32,940 The other part, of course, is that if you look at the dome 914 00:42:32,940 --> 00:42:35,780 of the Pentagon, you'll notice these capitals are what you 915 00:42:35,780 --> 00:42:40,710 call Corinthian, which is sort of a typical type of capital 916 00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:45,100 that was developed in Rome that does not match up with 917 00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:48,240 here, which is capitals that are called ionic, which are 918 00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:48,860 actually Greek. 919 00:42:48,860 --> 00:42:51,070 And they're a lot older. 920 00:42:51,070 --> 00:42:55,520 So he's sort of playing with these languages to craft a 921 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,280 type of MIT message. 922 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,400 So the model that he's taken is the Temple 923 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,390 of Athena in Priene. 924 00:43:03,390 --> 00:43:08,520 Priene was a Greek town in Western Turkey. 925 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,970 And so he's using the capitals, which I show here, 926 00:43:12,970 --> 00:43:14,400 from that temple. 927 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,450 So he wants Athena to be in there, because Athena's 928 00:43:16,450 --> 00:43:19,020 [? learning. ?] 929 00:43:19,020 --> 00:43:21,430 Among classicists, this temple is supposed to be seen as the 930 00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:24,680 most perfect temple that had ever been built. 931 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,460 And if you do architectural history, you would know that. 932 00:43:28,460 --> 00:43:33,070 So he takes the capital of Priene here and 933 00:43:33,070 --> 00:43:34,130 basically copies it. 934 00:43:34,130 --> 00:43:36,160 So when you walk in building seven up on the third floor, 935 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:37,600 you see these gigantic capitals. 936 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:43,310 Well, why spend $2,500 and go to Turkey and look at it? 937 00:43:43,310 --> 00:43:44,590 Well, you can look at it right there. 938 00:43:44,590 --> 00:43:46,020 I mean, they're sort of the same thing. 939 00:43:46,020 --> 00:43:48,715 But as you can see, the bottoms are different. 940 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,530 Now I know you guys are like, ugh. 941 00:43:53,530 --> 00:43:54,220 They all had bottoms. 942 00:43:54,220 --> 00:43:55,580 But bottoms-- 943 00:43:55,580 --> 00:43:56,900 it's a whole story. 944 00:43:56,900 --> 00:44:00,340 So he's taking the top but not the bottom. 945 00:44:00,340 --> 00:44:02,670 So where do the bottoms come from? 946 00:44:02,670 --> 00:44:05,940 Well, the bottoms come from another temple in Athens 947 00:44:05,940 --> 00:44:07,740 called the Erechtheion. 948 00:44:07,740 --> 00:44:11,010 So here you see MIT's bases. 949 00:44:11,010 --> 00:44:13,210 And compared to the Erechtheion, they're pretty 950 00:44:13,210 --> 00:44:14,500 much a perfect match. 951 00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:18,000 The Erechtheion, anybody seen that in Acropolis, Athens? 952 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:18,750 You guys travel? 953 00:44:18,750 --> 00:44:21,620 You got to travel. 954 00:44:21,620 --> 00:44:22,640 It's a bit of a ruin now. 955 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,050 You don't really get what it seems. 956 00:44:25,050 --> 00:44:28,450 But it's seen as one of the most sophisticated of 957 00:44:28,450 --> 00:44:31,070 buildings that the Greeks had ever produced. 958 00:44:31,070 --> 00:44:33,830 Very complicated building. 959 00:44:33,830 --> 00:44:36,950 Not a classic temple with a front and a side. 960 00:44:36,950 --> 00:44:39,040 But actually a very, very sort of complicated temple, showing 961 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,220 that the Greeks could actually produce temples with porches, 962 00:44:41,220 --> 00:44:43,810 and fronts, and backs, and this and that. 963 00:44:43,810 --> 00:44:46,360 And such a different type of complexity. 964 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,360 So it's a building that shows complexity. 965 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,310 And you can sort of see these MIT bases. 966 00:44:52,310 --> 00:44:57,890 So he takes the bases from one temporal to show sort of a 967 00:44:57,890 --> 00:45:00,810 type of architectural mastery of complexity. 968 00:45:00,810 --> 00:45:04,050 He takes the capitals from another temple to show Athena, 969 00:45:04,050 --> 00:45:07,415 and knowledge, and sort of purity of design. 970 00:45:07,415 --> 00:45:12,620 Then he takes the Roman idea of the great vault which holds 971 00:45:12,620 --> 00:45:16,700 knowledge and the sciences together and basically makes 972 00:45:16,700 --> 00:45:22,210 that into the message, the corporate message of MIT that 973 00:45:22,210 --> 00:45:25,080 gets sort of put into its front. 974 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,680 So today, of course, we look at buildings and we don't see 975 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:29,600 them as messages. 976 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,980 We just see them as, wow, I like that, or 977 00:45:32,980 --> 00:45:34,160 I don't like that. 978 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,670 But this is the great advantage of what the 979 00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:40,740 classical world brought while it was still being used, was 980 00:45:40,740 --> 00:45:44,065 that you take the pieces and you can construct arguments 981 00:45:44,065 --> 00:45:48,560 out of them, depending on how and what you're referring to. 982 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:50,350 So this was, in some sense, a message. 983 00:45:50,350 --> 00:45:54,040 And this was why they brought in Bosworth to, in some sense, 984 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:58,040 do Freeman's project. 985 00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,120 But basically give it the proper message that 986 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:01,350 it needed to have. 987 00:46:01,350 --> 00:46:03,830 And so what you get is really the best of both worlds, I 988 00:46:03,830 --> 00:46:08,550 think, is this positioning of MIT in the corporate world, as 989 00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:10,870 the corporate progress of world was understood at that 990 00:46:10,870 --> 00:46:13,670 time-- right-- in the emerging world. 991 00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:17,020 But also have in its core-- of the inside-- 992 00:46:17,020 --> 00:46:21,360 this sort of fantastic concrete slab building. 993 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,060 Which was also progressive in its own right, but it's not 994 00:46:24,060 --> 00:46:25,500 celebrated in any particular way. 995 00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:27,170 It's just there-- 996 00:46:27,170 --> 00:46:28,430 right? 997 00:46:28,430 --> 00:46:32,840 And of course, that interior of the building got repeatedly 998 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,620 nibbled on and transformed, and [? resealings ?] 999 00:46:35,620 --> 00:46:37,480 and new windows and doors. 1000 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,400 So it's very hard to see that. 1001 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,240 The best places are the staircase. 1002 00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:47,700 Which if you just think, 1913, these really amazingly clear, 1003 00:46:47,700 --> 00:46:54,040 functional concrete staircases that are so simple, you hardly 1004 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:58,530 think that that's anything to be proud of-- right? 1005 00:46:58,530 --> 00:47:01,560 But if you're thinking of what could have happened-- right? 1006 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,110 Which would have been a building-- 1007 00:47:05,110 --> 00:47:07,150 free standing buildings in a quad, like 1008 00:47:07,150 --> 00:47:09,020 in the Harvard model. 1009 00:47:09,020 --> 00:47:11,600 It would've been a very different story. 1010 00:47:17,855 --> 00:47:21,790 Yeah, that's the end of my little spiel here about the 1011 00:47:21,790 --> 00:47:25,420 old building, at least up until it was built. 1012 00:47:29,150 --> 00:47:31,830 So, questions? 1013 00:47:31,830 --> 00:47:33,652 Thoughts? 1014 00:47:33,652 --> 00:47:34,103 Yeah? 1015 00:47:34,103 --> 00:47:35,910 AUDIENCE: This is a litle off-topic, but do you think 1016 00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:39,032 the reason why we call Athena "Athena" has anything to do 1017 00:47:39,032 --> 00:47:40,020 with the architecture? 1018 00:47:40,020 --> 00:47:41,010 Like, the computer system? 1019 00:47:41,010 --> 00:47:43,150 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah, I don't know. 1020 00:47:43,150 --> 00:47:45,790 Could be just coincidence, it could be just coincidence. 1021 00:47:45,790 --> 00:47:48,740 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Interesting. 1022 00:47:48,740 --> 00:47:51,860 MARK JARZOMBEK: At one moment, Boston was seen-- 1023 00:47:51,860 --> 00:47:56,420 was trying to define itself as the Athens on the Charles. 1024 00:47:56,420 --> 00:48:01,080 So the ionic columns that are on our building-- 1025 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:07,230 and if you go to the museum, the Fine Arts 1026 00:48:07,230 --> 00:48:10,320 Museum has ionic columns. 1027 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,170 Many of the buildings designed first by MIT, and then during 1028 00:48:14,170 --> 00:48:17,500 the '20s and '30s will have ionic on them. 1029 00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:20,040 Because Boston was sort of trying to nickname itself as 1030 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:26,120 the Athens of learning and civilization on the Charles. 1031 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,118 So that maybe leaked out. 1032 00:48:30,118 --> 00:48:30,615 Yeah? 1033 00:48:30,615 --> 00:48:34,591 AUDIENCE: Was the Infinite Corridor planned today, like 1034 00:48:34,591 --> 00:48:37,170 the [INAUDIBLE]? 1035 00:48:37,170 --> 00:48:37,520 MARK JARZOMBEK: Absolutely. 1036 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,320 That's right, yeah. 1037 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,065 The corridor was-- 1038 00:48:44,610 --> 00:48:46,690 corridors were complicated spaces. 1039 00:48:46,690 --> 00:48:50,340 We see them today as pretty generic. 1040 00:48:50,340 --> 00:48:55,890 But in those days, corridors were actually very special 1041 00:48:55,890 --> 00:48:59,190 places used-- 1042 00:48:59,190 --> 00:49:01,340 like a novel types of spaces. 1043 00:49:01,340 --> 00:49:04,470 Partly, they were rejected because they didn't have a 1044 00:49:04,470 --> 00:49:05,260 good ventilation. 1045 00:49:05,260 --> 00:49:07,140 So you needed to have very, very tall-- 1046 00:49:07,140 --> 00:49:08,440 because there's no air conditioning, 1047 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,640 and there's no heating. 1048 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,460 So they would be very cold, and then in summer if you put 1049 00:49:14,460 --> 00:49:16,430 bathrooms there, the fumes would collect and they'd be 1050 00:49:16,430 --> 00:49:18,200 sort of stinky, maybe-- right? 1051 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,330 So during the 19th century, you're going to find few 1052 00:49:21,330 --> 00:49:23,810 buildings actually designing with corridors. 1053 00:49:23,810 --> 00:49:27,170 But they start emerging in the late 19th century in state 1054 00:49:27,170 --> 00:49:31,610 houses, parliament buildings, as representational places. 1055 00:49:31,610 --> 00:49:33,940 You know when we say someone is lobbying-- 1056 00:49:33,940 --> 00:49:36,910 right-- because the corridor was next to these lobbies in 1057 00:49:36,910 --> 00:49:37,680 the parliament building. 1058 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:41,680 So the idea that you could have these corridors-- 1059 00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:43,320 places where people would hang out-- 1060 00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,400 was seen as a positive thing. 1061 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,430 But that's one of the reasons these spaces and the building 1062 00:49:48,430 --> 00:49:51,370 was so huge, is because the idea was the ventilation, you 1063 00:49:51,370 --> 00:49:52,700 don't have artificial ventilation. 1064 00:49:52,700 --> 00:49:55,280 So the whole building had to be circulated through these 1065 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,600 windows and through the corridors. 1066 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,350 But yeah, it was designed with these corridors in mind. 1067 00:50:01,350 --> 00:50:06,680 Initially, the idea was that the offices would have walls 1068 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,430 out of very thin wood, and he called them curtain walls, 1069 00:50:10,430 --> 00:50:13,090 which is different from the technical term today in 1070 00:50:13,090 --> 00:50:13,540 architecture. 1071 00:50:13,540 --> 00:50:16,600 But they were literally like curtains, so that if the 1072 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:20,060 physics professor wanted more space, he could expand or 1073 00:50:20,060 --> 00:50:21,430 something like that. 1074 00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:24,210 Of course, that turned out to be completely dysfunctional, 1075 00:50:24,210 --> 00:50:28,150 because you give a professor space, he's never going to 1076 00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:29,776 give it up. 1077 00:50:29,776 --> 00:50:33,080 I mean, now we have the space wars at MIT, and it's just 1078 00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,630 like to death. 1079 00:50:35,630 --> 00:50:38,630 We've been trying to move a one wall between two offices, 1080 00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:41,070 now, for 10 years in Department of Architecture, 1081 00:50:41,070 --> 00:50:43,040 and it's just not gonna happen. 1082 00:50:45,570 --> 00:50:48,080 So this idea that this was like a free plan, where the 1083 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,850 corridors are the spine and the stable part of it, and the 1084 00:50:50,850 --> 00:50:54,860 walls are sort of moving and expanding and contracting as 1085 00:50:54,860 --> 00:50:55,390 disciplines. 1086 00:50:55,390 --> 00:50:57,075 Because he knew that disciplines were moving and 1087 00:50:57,075 --> 00:50:57,340 contracting. 1088 00:50:57,340 --> 00:50:59,510 So he wanted a building that was very flexible. 1089 00:50:59,510 --> 00:51:01,000 That's why there are no walls. 1090 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:01,130 Right? 1091 00:51:01,130 --> 00:51:04,240 Just slab and columns. 1092 00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:04,660 Right? 1093 00:51:04,660 --> 00:51:08,620 Then the walls are all in-filled. 1094 00:51:08,620 --> 00:51:10,610 Unfortunately, the walls became permanent, 1095 00:51:10,610 --> 00:51:11,860 as all walls do. 1096 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:17,580 So even that would've been-- 1097 00:51:17,580 --> 00:51:20,810 the idea of a building with no walls was just 1098 00:51:20,810 --> 00:51:23,368 unbelievably modern. 1099 00:51:23,368 --> 00:51:25,748 AUDIENCE: I was wondering about the "V's in 1100 00:51:25,748 --> 00:51:28,128 "Massachusetts" on the building. 1101 00:51:28,128 --> 00:51:30,032 Why "V's" and not "U's? 1102 00:51:32,610 --> 00:51:34,820 MARK JARZOMBEK: That's because the Romans didn't have "U's"-- 1103 00:51:34,820 --> 00:51:35,110 right? 1104 00:51:35,110 --> 00:51:40,550 So they were copying the Roman script, and so Romans didn't 1105 00:51:40,550 --> 00:51:43,530 have "U", so everything was "V". 1106 00:51:43,530 --> 00:51:45,060 So they didn't have-- 1107 00:51:45,060 --> 00:51:46,310 it stuck. 1108 00:51:48,190 --> 00:51:49,900 AUDIENCE: Do you know anything about the design or the 1109 00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:52,300 rationale behind the huge tunnel system that we have 1110 00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:53,365 between all the buildings. 1111 00:51:53,365 --> 00:51:56,460 It seems to be a unique feature of the campus. 1112 00:51:56,460 --> 00:51:56,800 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah. 1113 00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:57,670 That, I don't know. 1114 00:51:57,670 --> 00:51:59,690 Maybe you guys might have a little bit more 1115 00:51:59,690 --> 00:52:02,140 of a clue on that. 1116 00:52:02,140 --> 00:52:04,100 I think it would have came out just almost accidentally, is 1117 00:52:04,100 --> 00:52:05,568 what I understand, but-- 1118 00:52:05,568 --> 00:52:06,940 DAVID MINDELL: I think so, and then I think that more 1119 00:52:06,940 --> 00:52:09,800 recently it's been explicit that there's been connections 1120 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:10,860 between the new buildings. 1121 00:52:10,860 --> 00:52:14,140 But that's a good paper topic for somewhere. 1122 00:52:14,140 --> 00:52:15,610 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Yeah, that is a good topic. 1123 00:52:15,610 --> 00:52:18,105 AUDIENCE: There really aren't that many more basement 1124 00:52:18,105 --> 00:52:21,685 systems rather than just the regular systems, anyways. 1125 00:52:21,685 --> 00:52:24,370 I mean, there's a couple extra hallways in the basement. 1126 00:52:24,370 --> 00:52:28,390 But in general, the buildings are connected above ground 1127 00:52:28,390 --> 00:52:31,260 just as much as they are underneath. 1128 00:52:31,260 --> 00:52:33,580 AUDIENCE: I'm thinking that especially the connection 1129 00:52:33,580 --> 00:52:36,330 between Philips 66 and all the way across the Kendall Square, 1130 00:52:36,330 --> 00:52:39,880 it seemed to be pretty deliberate to want to do that. 1131 00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,450 In any case, I heard it was like the second longest tunnel 1132 00:52:42,450 --> 00:52:43,617 system compared to the Pentagon or 1133 00:52:43,617 --> 00:52:44,345 something like that. 1134 00:52:44,345 --> 00:52:45,800 I might have been [INAUDIBLE]. 1135 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,600 But it's pretty big. 1136 00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:48,940 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Interesting. 1137 00:52:48,940 --> 00:52:51,010 MARK JARZOMBEK: The whole building is designed on field 1138 00:52:51,010 --> 00:52:54,510 because, as you know from your reading, this was all swamp. 1139 00:52:54,510 --> 00:52:57,910 And field is not a good place to design a building on-- 1140 00:52:57,910 --> 00:52:58,550 right? 1141 00:52:58,550 --> 00:53:02,320 Because it basically wants to be a swamp again. 1142 00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,040 So the engineering of the building-- basically you have 1143 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,175 design of gigantic, basically, bathtub slab-- 1144 00:53:09,175 --> 00:53:09,460 right? 1145 00:53:09,460 --> 00:53:13,670 And the building sort of sits in this huge footprint-- 1146 00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:13,990 right? 1147 00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:16,310 Sort of sits down and you're-- and so in other words, you 1148 00:53:16,310 --> 00:53:18,365 just put a point in and a point in it'll start leaning 1149 00:53:18,365 --> 00:53:19,030 and tilting-- right? 1150 00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:21,700 So you put a big platform, and then you can put 1151 00:53:21,700 --> 00:53:23,930 your building on it. 1152 00:53:23,930 --> 00:53:27,110 So the engineering of this, actually was hugely 1153 00:53:27,110 --> 00:53:27,800 complicated. 1154 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,120 Done by a guy called Stone-- 1155 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,080 engineering firm Stone, which was one of the largest 1156 00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,040 engineering firms in the world at the time. 1157 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:36,760 He was also a [? graduate. ?] 1158 00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:41,950 Freeman was so upset when they hired Bosworth to take his 1159 00:53:41,950 --> 00:53:45,640 plan and basically botch it, that he took his entire 1160 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,640 research and burned it. 1161 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:49,900 And so all that we have left in the archives are these 1162 00:53:49,900 --> 00:53:54,380 really bad photographs, some snapshot that someone took of 1163 00:53:54,380 --> 00:53:56,590 some of these sheets that are left. 1164 00:53:56,590 --> 00:54:00,490 And they haven't given a cent to MIT, ever-- right? 1165 00:54:00,490 --> 00:54:02,450 I mean, still today, if you talk to the Freeman 1166 00:54:02,450 --> 00:54:04,540 [INAUDIBLE] guys, they go, we're not coming, we're not 1167 00:54:04,540 --> 00:54:07,070 coming, we hate you guys. 1168 00:54:07,070 --> 00:54:11,850 Because he felt that he had really studied this thing 1169 00:54:11,850 --> 00:54:14,500 exhaustively, and was going to give MIT the best building 1170 00:54:14,500 --> 00:54:18,000 that they could possibly imagine, and was upset that 1171 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:19,990 MIT then basically went for Bosworth. 1172 00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:23,260 And it's a conflict, as I write about in my book, 1173 00:54:23,260 --> 00:54:25,660 between two different types of identities-- 1174 00:54:25,660 --> 00:54:26,020 right? 1175 00:54:26,020 --> 00:54:28,740 I mean, Freeman was a type of modern person where he wanted 1176 00:54:28,740 --> 00:54:30,830 concrete, he wanted engineering, he wants building 1177 00:54:30,830 --> 00:54:34,990 to be proud of itself as a civil engineering expression. 1178 00:54:34,990 --> 00:54:37,070 And he understood that this was the moment of history 1179 00:54:37,070 --> 00:54:40,220 where an institution could do that. 1180 00:54:40,220 --> 00:54:42,330 And so he's sort of right. 1181 00:54:42,330 --> 00:54:45,450 But there was another type of modern movement being 1182 00:54:45,450 --> 00:54:48,430 developed, which was the modern corporation. 1183 00:54:48,430 --> 00:54:50,820 And MIT was sort of like trying to figure out which one 1184 00:54:50,820 --> 00:54:51,540 do we want-- right? 1185 00:54:51,540 --> 00:54:55,860 And ultimately, they opted for going with the idea that the 1186 00:54:55,860 --> 00:55:00,900 modern corporation is what an institution like this is, as 1187 00:55:00,900 --> 00:55:02,460 opposed to a public institution-- right? 1188 00:55:02,460 --> 00:55:06,370 So it was shifting from a public institution, which had 1189 00:55:06,370 --> 00:55:10,835 to be humble and small to a private institution-- 1190 00:55:10,835 --> 00:55:12,340 right-- like it is now-- right? 1191 00:55:12,340 --> 00:55:16,210 With one fell swoop when Eastman gave the 1192 00:55:16,210 --> 00:55:17,580 $10 million, right? 1193 00:55:17,580 --> 00:55:19,940 Boom, it's a private institution. 1194 00:55:19,940 --> 00:55:23,140 So private institutions operate on very different 1195 00:55:23,140 --> 00:55:25,410 representational models. 1196 00:55:25,410 --> 00:55:27,720 So being in the world-- 1197 00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:29,110 having an argument about your position in the 1198 00:55:29,110 --> 00:55:30,320 world was key to that. 1199 00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:31,370 And for that-- 1200 00:55:31,370 --> 00:55:33,740 only architects at the time knew how to do that-- 1201 00:55:33,740 --> 00:55:34,550 right? 1202 00:55:34,550 --> 00:55:37,210 I don't know if they still know how to do it, but that 1203 00:55:37,210 --> 00:55:38,460 was the point. 1204 00:55:42,090 --> 00:55:44,620 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Was there a time prior to the 1205 00:55:44,620 --> 00:55:50,080 Freeman-Bosworth divide that architects and engineers 1206 00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,230 considered themselves one in the same? 1207 00:55:53,230 --> 00:55:57,550 Or did that never exist? 1208 00:55:57,550 --> 00:56:00,080 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yes, probably in the 1880s, I think 1209 00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,860 architecture and engineering were a lot closer. 1210 00:56:02,860 --> 00:56:06,970 Then, engineering professionalized itself much 1211 00:56:06,970 --> 00:56:08,620 earlier than architecture. 1212 00:56:08,620 --> 00:56:11,710 Engineering was already professionalized practically 1213 00:56:11,710 --> 00:56:17,240 in the 1880s, whereas architecture started to 1214 00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:18,840 professionalize itself around 1900. 1215 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,020 And even then, many architects were going, we don't want to 1216 00:56:21,020 --> 00:56:22,900 be professional, we are artists. 1217 00:56:22,900 --> 00:56:25,860 So really, it was only in the 1940s, really, that 1218 00:56:25,860 --> 00:56:29,250 architecture as a professional practice really takes root, 1219 00:56:29,250 --> 00:56:31,210 really with the second World War. 1220 00:56:31,210 --> 00:56:35,310 So being a professional practice gave engineers a 1221 00:56:35,310 --> 00:56:37,220 powerful leg to stand on. 1222 00:56:37,220 --> 00:56:41,240 Because they understood deliverables, they understood 1223 00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:45,050 how buildings operate and function in the real world, 1224 00:56:45,050 --> 00:56:48,770 whereas architects could give you the appearance-- 1225 00:56:48,770 --> 00:56:50,980 right-- but not know anything about how to build it. 1226 00:56:50,980 --> 00:56:55,390 And that split begins to emerge around 1900, between 1227 00:56:55,390 --> 00:56:59,070 architecture as a design project, and engineering. 1228 00:56:59,070 --> 00:57:01,620 So in other words, when civil engineering and architecture 1229 00:57:01,620 --> 00:57:04,280 start two different fields-- right-- 1230 00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,080 that's when they have this antagonism. 1231 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:12,150 But because engineers were so incredibly competent, they 1232 00:57:12,150 --> 00:57:15,300 could build buildings in their sleep. 1233 00:57:15,300 --> 00:57:16,850 I mean, sort of dumb buildings-- right? 1234 00:57:16,850 --> 00:57:19,340 So they thought, that's how you should be building. 1235 00:57:19,340 --> 00:57:22,700 So the engineers had something to argue for themselves. 1236 00:57:22,700 --> 00:57:24,560 They make buildings, they knew how to make them safe, they 1237 00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:26,400 don't burn, they don't do this, so that's all you need 1238 00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:28,350 to do-- right? 1239 00:57:28,350 --> 00:57:32,130 So that antagonism basically heats up around 1900, and this 1240 00:57:32,130 --> 00:57:34,750 is an example of that. 1241 00:57:34,750 --> 00:57:38,480 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Where does William Ware stand in this? 1242 00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,120 Was he an engineer slash architect? 1243 00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:42,170 Or was he-- 1244 00:57:42,170 --> 00:57:44,090 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah, he was sort of the gentlemen 1245 00:57:44,090 --> 00:57:46,810 architect tradition idea. 1246 00:57:46,810 --> 00:57:49,410 So he's the one who founds the Department of Architecture 1247 00:57:49,410 --> 00:57:51,020 along the gentleman model-- 1248 00:57:51,020 --> 00:57:51,790 right? 1249 00:57:51,790 --> 00:57:54,500 And, yes, the engineering is important, but engineering 1250 00:57:54,500 --> 00:57:58,490 still was something that wasn't too much of a problem 1251 00:57:58,490 --> 00:58:00,910 because if you make these types of buildings, you make 1252 00:58:00,910 --> 00:58:05,150 your walls, you put in some big beams. 1253 00:58:05,150 --> 00:58:07,000 There's not a big question-- right? 1254 00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,850 But if you make MIT out of concrete, in a million square 1255 00:58:10,850 --> 00:58:12,170 feet-- and how do you pour it? 1256 00:58:12,170 --> 00:58:13,890 How do you-- 1257 00:58:13,890 --> 00:58:15,360 on the swampy soil? 1258 00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:19,512 This is an engineering problem of mega proportions-- 1259 00:58:19,512 --> 00:58:20,720 right? 1260 00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,520 And this is not for an architect . 1261 00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:24,710 So architecture in the mid-20th century was at a 1262 00:58:24,710 --> 00:58:27,280 scale that engineering wasn't a real problem, because most 1263 00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,540 of it was just pretty easy to do. 1264 00:58:29,540 --> 00:58:32,090 But as soon as you make big buildings like this-- 1265 00:58:32,090 --> 00:58:33,300 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Different story. 1266 00:58:33,300 --> 00:58:35,440 MARK JARZOMBEK: --engineer has to be really front and center. 1267 00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:37,552 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Interesting. 1268 00:58:37,552 --> 00:58:40,450 AUDIENCE: Isn't the divide between architecture and 1269 00:58:40,450 --> 00:58:42,865 engineering still a big problem at MIT? 1270 00:58:42,865 --> 00:58:45,119 Because you look at buildings like the Stata Center, in a 1271 00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:47,695 sense they both have-- 1272 00:58:47,695 --> 00:58:51,784 they're both very artistic, but have a lot 1273 00:58:51,784 --> 00:58:54,312 of structural problems. 1274 00:58:54,312 --> 00:58:58,110 So isn't that still a pretty modern problem? 1275 00:58:58,110 --> 00:59:07,520 MARK JARZOMBEK: Well my uncle, who is an architect lawyer, 1276 00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:11,260 architects come to him to get them out of lawsuits. 1277 00:59:11,260 --> 00:59:13,960 So he always says, there's no such thing as a building that 1278 00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:15,230 doesn't leak-- 1279 00:59:15,230 --> 00:59:17,390 rule one-- and there's no such thing as a good building that 1280 00:59:17,390 --> 00:59:19,780 doesn't have a lawsuit. 1281 00:59:19,780 --> 00:59:22,365 And so someone's always suing something because-- 1282 00:59:22,365 --> 00:59:23,080 no one knows. 1283 00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,950 I mean, my windows in my Building 10, 1284 00:59:25,950 --> 00:59:29,260 they leak, I mean. 1285 00:59:29,260 --> 00:59:30,750 And they're rusted shut-- 1286 00:59:30,750 --> 00:59:31,320 the upper one-- 1287 00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:32,940 I just like-- you can't even move it. 1288 00:59:32,940 --> 00:59:34,400 Just-- you know. 1289 00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:35,350 So that's maybe a question of 1290 00:59:35,350 --> 00:59:38,760 maintenance, rather than design. 1291 00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:43,130 But I'm a little bit more sympathetic to Gary. 1292 00:59:43,130 --> 00:59:47,710 I think some of the lawsuit anxiety is misplaced a bit. 1293 00:59:47,710 --> 00:59:50,380 Because most buildings of that scale are going to have 1294 00:59:50,380 --> 00:59:52,160 mistakes and problems. 1295 00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,660 And anyway, almost every Gary project gets sued. 1296 00:59:55,660 --> 00:59:56,830 You get sued. 1297 00:59:56,830 --> 00:59:58,510 For every building, he's got a lawsuit. 1298 00:59:58,510 --> 01:00:00,585 So when MIT hired him, they should have known that. 1299 01:00:00,585 --> 01:00:03,435 It's sort of like, don't they read the newspapers? 1300 01:00:06,380 --> 01:00:09,160 So it's just a little bit his fault, a little bit 1301 01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:10,440 everybody's fault. 1302 01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:11,490 The client should of known better. 1303 01:00:11,490 --> 01:00:15,110 If they're going to get a building that is designed at 1304 01:00:15,110 --> 01:00:17,140 the cutting edge of a certain type of technological 1305 01:00:17,140 --> 01:00:20,750 revolution, there might be problems, and so forth. 1306 01:00:20,750 --> 01:00:23,060 If they wanted a simpler building, they shouldn't have 1307 01:00:23,060 --> 01:00:23,650 done it with Gary. 1308 01:00:23,650 --> 01:00:26,460 That's the point. 1309 01:00:26,460 --> 01:00:31,320 DAVID MINDELL: So in the Bosworth-Freeman story, would 1310 01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,456 you describe the main group that we ended up with as kind 1311 01:00:35,456 --> 01:00:38,920 of a solution that reflects some anxiety on the 1312 01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:40,180 institute's part? 1313 01:00:40,180 --> 01:00:42,870 Because they voted for-- 1314 01:00:42,870 --> 01:00:46,310 and as the corporations had some anxiety, too, trying to 1315 01:00:46,310 --> 01:00:50,060 communicate their permanence and their established nature, 1316 01:00:50,060 --> 01:00:53,100 which clearly indicates it's in question, as we read with 1317 01:00:53,100 --> 01:00:54,850 all the mergers, and all this sort of stuff? 1318 01:00:54,850 --> 01:00:58,890 As opposed to whether Freeman, or somebody else, pushing 1319 01:00:58,890 --> 01:01:02,940 forward light spaces, international style, very new, 1320 01:01:02,940 --> 01:01:07,450 very cutting edge, but leaving open the question of whether 1321 01:01:07,450 --> 01:01:09,995 it was really the establishment or not. 1322 01:01:09,995 --> 01:01:15,505 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah, one of the points about the book is 1323 01:01:15,505 --> 01:01:21,230 that MIT had to learn how to find it's patronage voice-- 1324 01:01:21,230 --> 01:01:21,910 right? 1325 01:01:21,910 --> 01:01:25,110 So when they first say, we want a building, the guy just 1326 01:01:25,110 --> 01:01:27,195 walked down to the store somewhere to Central Square 1327 01:01:27,195 --> 01:01:29,202 and saw someone that said "architect" and said , oh, can 1328 01:01:29,202 --> 01:01:29,950 you design this for us? 1329 01:01:29,950 --> 01:01:30,300 Right? 1330 01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:34,610 They didn't imagine this to be anything more complicated than 1331 01:01:34,610 --> 01:01:39,750 just going out and getting box of cereal. 1332 01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:44,920 Then they had to learn that this was a historical moment. 1333 01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:47,860 So they really didn't see that at the beginning. 1334 01:01:47,860 --> 01:01:49,790 They just thought, we just want a campus and get some 1335 01:01:49,790 --> 01:01:52,220 buildings up. 1336 01:01:52,220 --> 01:01:56,690 And what Freeman forced him to do was to slow down and 1337 01:01:56,690 --> 01:01:59,620 understand the historical moment. 1338 01:01:59,620 --> 01:02:02,750 Once they understood historical moment, in a way 1339 01:02:02,750 --> 01:02:03,670 thanks to Freeman-- 1340 01:02:03,670 --> 01:02:04,450 right-- 1341 01:02:04,450 --> 01:02:07,490 they put everything aside and waited a year or two for him 1342 01:02:07,490 --> 01:02:08,750 to make his research. 1343 01:02:08,750 --> 01:02:11,870 They actually thought more about the historical moment 1344 01:02:11,870 --> 01:02:13,780 than Freeman wanted them to. 1345 01:02:13,780 --> 01:02:16,930 Because they said, the moment isn't just to do a great 1346 01:02:16,930 --> 01:02:22,170 factory-style campus. 1347 01:02:22,170 --> 01:02:25,430 The really historical moment is our new relationship and 1348 01:02:25,430 --> 01:02:29,820 identity as a private institution, dependent on the 1349 01:02:29,820 --> 01:02:31,920 corporate institution. 1350 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,265 And so that's the actual thing we need-- 1351 01:02:35,265 --> 01:02:37,920 right? 1352 01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,600 So they had to learn how to find that, thanks to Freeman. 1353 01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:42,870 But actually, thanks to Freeman, then 1354 01:02:42,870 --> 01:02:44,610 they went past Freeman-- 1355 01:02:44,610 --> 01:02:46,210 right-- 1356 01:02:46,210 --> 01:02:48,480 and articulated a different project. 1357 01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:51,160 It was a huge spectacle. 1358 01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,780 It was a age where a vast public spectacle-- this one, 1359 01:02:54,780 --> 01:02:56,780 the early 20th century-- 1360 01:02:56,780 --> 01:03:00,490 where something happened that you could do these things. 1361 01:03:00,490 --> 01:03:05,110 So yeah, there was a searchlight on top of the 1362 01:03:05,110 --> 01:03:07,560 Rogers building, and there's a searchlight on top of MIT 1363 01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:08,940 building-- the Dome. 1364 01:03:08,940 --> 01:03:11,640 And they got these from some Navy frigate that was out in 1365 01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,380 the dock harbor-- they borrowed the searchlights. 1366 01:03:14,380 --> 01:03:19,310 And then everybody left the procession down from the 1367 01:03:19,310 --> 01:03:20,570 Rogers building to the dock. 1368 01:03:20,570 --> 01:03:22,540 And then there was a special boat, and they all 1369 01:03:22,540 --> 01:03:24,890 piled on to the boat. 1370 01:03:24,890 --> 01:03:26,930 And the boat almost sank because no one had ever 1371 01:03:26,930 --> 01:03:31,010 bothered to figure out what 800 people weigh. 1372 01:03:31,010 --> 01:03:32,010 And that would have been interesting-- 1373 01:03:32,010 --> 01:03:32,410 right? 1374 01:03:32,410 --> 01:03:34,537 It would have been a very different story today about 1375 01:03:34,537 --> 01:03:37,459 the death of the faculty-- 1376 01:03:37,459 --> 01:03:40,000 MERRIT ROE SMITH: The charter sinks into the Charles. 1377 01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:41,660 MARK JARZOMBEK: Students dying and swimming and-- 1378 01:03:41,660 --> 01:03:42,885 DAVID MINDELL: I've heard that that building's actually in 1379 01:03:42,885 --> 01:03:43,620 the Charles. 1380 01:03:43,620 --> 01:03:46,880 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Yeah, that's what I've heard, too. 1381 01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:48,407 DAVID MINDELL: Does anybody know where you walk by that 1382 01:03:48,407 --> 01:03:49,140 boat everyday? 1383 01:03:49,140 --> 01:03:51,640 Where you see it everyday? 1384 01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:53,640 There's a huge picture of it right at the end of the 1385 01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:55,970 Infinite Corridor, right here on this wall. 1386 01:03:55,970 --> 01:03:56,946 I just walked by it this morning. 1387 01:03:56,946 --> 01:04:02,426 And it was also the last one in this whole little collage 1388 01:04:02,426 --> 01:04:04,823 about that set of events. 1389 01:04:04,823 --> 01:04:07,060 MARK JARZOMBEK: And then they got on the boat and they went 1390 01:04:07,060 --> 01:04:08,050 off to the dock. 1391 01:04:08,050 --> 01:04:09,820 MIT was supposed to have a dock, which was 1392 01:04:09,820 --> 01:04:12,840 never actually built. 1393 01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:13,640 And then they all got out. 1394 01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:16,800 And then every student was participating, in one way or 1395 01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:23,110 other, in an opera that was custom designed called-- 1396 01:04:23,110 --> 01:04:23,860 what was the name of this? 1397 01:04:23,860 --> 01:04:26,250 I can't remember-- 1398 01:04:26,250 --> 01:04:28,690 The Grey World, or something like that, which featured the 1399 01:04:28,690 --> 01:04:31,260 history of the world with MIT at the 1400 01:04:31,260 --> 01:04:34,336 culminating piece of that. 1401 01:04:34,336 --> 01:04:34,820 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Of course. 1402 01:04:34,820 --> 01:04:36,720 MARK JARZOMBEK: And it featured this woman called 1403 01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,890 Tanner, who was this great swirly, dirly-- 1404 01:04:40,890 --> 01:04:47,950 not wearing many clothes and illuminated with red and 1405 01:04:47,950 --> 01:04:49,345 purple and orange lights down below. 1406 01:04:49,345 --> 01:04:54,120 It was one of the great first light show events-- 1407 01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:54,350 right? 1408 01:04:54,350 --> 01:04:56,900 They would take with lights going off and on [INAUDIBLE]. 1409 01:04:56,900 --> 01:04:59,480 But this was one of the first experiments in 1410 01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,860 colored light shows. 1411 01:05:01,860 --> 01:05:04,520 And Tanner did her swirly dance. 1412 01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:05,770 And then the big opera came. 1413 01:05:05,770 --> 01:05:06,790 And the music came. 1414 01:05:06,790 --> 01:05:08,530 And Rockefeller gave a speech. 1415 01:05:08,530 --> 01:05:09,860 And everybody gave speeches. 1416 01:05:09,860 --> 01:05:11,410 And da, da, da, da. 1417 01:05:11,410 --> 01:05:15,310 And Cram, who was the head of the department, was the master 1418 01:05:15,310 --> 01:05:15,780 of ceremonies. 1419 01:05:15,780 --> 01:05:18,680 And then he opened the door. 1420 01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:26,090 And then the two searchlights were touching, like this. 1421 01:05:26,090 --> 01:05:27,070 And then when you open the door, the 1422 01:05:27,070 --> 01:05:29,880 searchlights went like that. 1423 01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:33,100 And the MIT-Roger Williams searchlight cut off, and you 1424 01:05:33,100 --> 01:05:34,872 only had MIT searchlight on. 1425 01:05:34,872 --> 01:05:37,900 And so that was the great, heroic moment. 1426 01:05:37,900 --> 01:05:40,000 I mean, you could imagine it was spectacular. 1427 01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,780 But it was all at night, so there's only one photograph 1428 01:05:42,780 --> 01:05:45,550 that someone drew in to show a little bit what it was like. 1429 01:05:45,550 --> 01:05:48,390 But you couldn't photograph any of that stuff. 1430 01:05:48,390 --> 01:05:50,960 MARK JARZOMBEK: The Rogers building was used until-- 1431 01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,150 it was only torn down the '20s, or even later-- right? 1432 01:05:54,150 --> 01:05:57,180 In the 30-- 1433 01:05:57,180 --> 01:05:59,100 DAVID MINDELL: The main group was built in one big swoop 1434 01:05:59,100 --> 01:06:00,200 that was that time. 1435 01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,440 But then there were various other pieces filled in until 1436 01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:04,680 the end of the '20s-- right? 1437 01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:07,030 It wasn't really complete until around 1930-- 1438 01:06:07,030 --> 01:06:07,770 MARK JARZOMBEK: That's right. 1439 01:06:07,770 --> 01:06:10,006 DAVID MINDELL: --when the last of all what we now know as 1440 01:06:10,006 --> 01:06:10,410 [INAUDIBLE]. 1441 01:06:10,410 --> 01:06:12,451 So if you look at them, they look a little different 1442 01:06:12,451 --> 01:06:13,393 [INAUDIBLE]. 1443 01:06:13,393 --> 01:06:14,335 MARK JARZOMBEK: That's right, yeah. 1444 01:06:14,335 --> 01:06:15,280 That's right. 1445 01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:17,090 I mean, I. M. Pei, who studied here-- 1446 01:06:17,090 --> 01:06:18,610 DAVID MINDELL: [INAUDIBLE] stayed over [INAUDIBLE]. 1447 01:06:18,610 --> 01:06:20,100 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah, see architecture is over there, so 1448 01:06:20,100 --> 01:06:23,680 I. M. Pei, who studied here when he was here in the '40s-- 1449 01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:25,800 he was in the Rogers building, still. 1450 01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:30,090 He was like the last student to use that building . 1451 01:06:30,090 --> 01:06:31,640 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] the MIT building for-- 1452 01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:34,550 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah, it was still-- they rented it, the 1453 01:06:34,550 --> 01:06:35,800 various floors at that time. 1454 01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:40,870 Then, sadly, it was torn down. 1455 01:06:40,870 --> 01:06:42,050 MERRIT ROE SMITH: That's interesting. 1456 01:06:42,050 --> 01:06:43,690 MARK JARZOMBEK: Well, there's sort of a playfulness about 1457 01:06:43,690 --> 01:06:47,960 it, which I think one has love. 1458 01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,460 MIT had this incredible-- 1459 01:06:51,460 --> 01:06:54,720 you read, also, the skits that were being performed. 1460 01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:59,180 MIT had this tradition of skits and theater skits. 1461 01:06:59,180 --> 01:07:03,160 And in the yearbook you see these guys will be dressed up 1462 01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:03,870 as god knows what. 1463 01:07:03,870 --> 01:07:06,333 And they make some skit imitating some professors or 1464 01:07:06,333 --> 01:07:07,640 doing [INAUDIBLE]. 1465 01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:08,440 We lost all that. 1466 01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:10,970 I mean, somewhere MIT became very serious, and all that 1467 01:07:10,970 --> 01:07:17,220 playful skits and irony just went somewhere. 1468 01:07:17,220 --> 01:07:18,450 I don't know where. 1469 01:07:18,450 --> 01:07:20,085 MERRIT ROE SMITH: It went to the students. 1470 01:07:20,085 --> 01:07:21,240 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1471 01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:21,790 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Isn't that what you were 1472 01:07:21,790 --> 01:07:22,810 saying in your paper? 1473 01:07:22,810 --> 01:07:26,669 AUDIENCE: I feel like it's still around, maybe on the 1474 01:07:26,669 --> 01:07:27,730 undergraduate level. 1475 01:07:27,730 --> 01:07:32,466 But I feel like MIT is a more unique place than the other 1476 01:07:32,466 --> 01:07:34,826 college campus, just because of some of the 1477 01:07:34,826 --> 01:07:36,076 weird stuff we do here. 1478 01:07:38,927 --> 01:07:41,909 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Yeah, good point. 1479 01:07:41,909 --> 01:07:43,897 DAVID MINDELL: But I think your point is right. 1480 01:07:43,897 --> 01:07:47,260 The spectacle of that [INAUDIBLE] 1481 01:07:47,260 --> 01:07:50,190 was a moment in time when-- 1482 01:07:50,190 --> 01:07:50,740 who knows what? 1483 01:07:50,740 --> 01:07:55,272 There was enough technology to bring a lot of people 1484 01:07:55,272 --> 01:07:57,961 together, but people weren't yet jaded by radio and 1485 01:07:57,961 --> 01:07:58,695 television. 1486 01:07:58,695 --> 01:08:01,629 Where they wouldn't put all of their effort in to that thing. 1487 01:08:01,629 --> 01:08:08,770 The allegories and all of the performances was something we 1488 01:08:08,770 --> 01:08:10,730 studied a lot with the 150th. 1489 01:08:10,730 --> 01:08:14,790 And try to figure out what parts of it are repeatable and 1490 01:08:14,790 --> 01:08:15,894 what parts-- 1491 01:08:15,894 --> 01:08:16,388 MARK JARZOMBEK: --are goofy. 1492 01:08:16,388 --> 01:08:17,638 DAVID MINDELL: --are not. 1493 01:08:20,340 --> 01:08:22,270 MERRIT ROE SMITH: So I take it, that's not going to be 1494 01:08:22,270 --> 01:08:24,580 repeated this spring. 1495 01:08:24,580 --> 01:08:25,288 DAVID MINDELL: Well, Professor Smith is going to dress up as 1496 01:08:25,288 --> 01:08:26,468 Merlin for [INAUDIBLE]. 1497 01:08:26,468 --> 01:08:29,300 [LAUGHTER] 1498 01:08:29,300 --> 01:08:33,210 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Well, if you do-- if you dare do something 1499 01:08:33,210 --> 01:08:34,870 like that, David, I'll be Merlin. 1500 01:08:37,490 --> 01:08:38,850 I don't think you dare do it. 1501 01:08:38,850 --> 01:08:41,800 DAVID MINDELL: [INAUDIBLE] 1502 01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:42,950 MIT charter in it. 1503 01:08:42,950 --> 01:08:43,580 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Oh yeah. 1504 01:08:43,580 --> 01:08:46,659 DAVID MINDELL: Across the river, almost like Raiders of 1505 01:08:46,659 --> 01:08:49,705 the Lost Ark. 1506 01:08:49,705 --> 01:08:51,130 MERRIT ROE SMITH: Wasn't the-- 1507 01:08:51,130 --> 01:08:53,500 it was like a Venetian galley, wasn't it? 1508 01:08:53,500 --> 01:08:56,160 That was built to carry the stuff across the river? 1509 01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:56,410 MARK JARZOMBEK: That's right, the Venetian was a theme. 1510 01:08:56,410 --> 01:08:58,970 MERRIT ROE SMITH: And it was built up in Gloucester or 1511 01:08:58,970 --> 01:09:01,520 somewhere, and they had to bring it down along the coast. 1512 01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:02,170 MARK JARZOMBEK:That's right. 1513 01:09:02,170 --> 01:09:04,560 MERRIT ROE SMITH: And I think it's in your book, that you 1514 01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:07,220 talk about how it got damaged on the way, or something. 1515 01:09:07,220 --> 01:09:10,010 And they were worried about it sinking. 1516 01:09:10,010 --> 01:09:10,499 MARK JARZOMBEK: Well, they were worried about it sinking 1517 01:09:10,499 --> 01:09:12,609 because they'd never really thought about people in it. 1518 01:09:12,609 --> 01:09:14,819 And they'd never tested it. 1519 01:09:14,819 --> 01:09:17,149 I mean, it's just a barge, dressed up with all 1520 01:09:17,149 --> 01:09:18,086 that stuff on it. 1521 01:09:18,086 --> 01:09:19,336 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1522 01:09:21,790 --> 01:09:23,852 AUDIENCE: When we go to the MIT Museum, Debbie Douglas has 1523 01:09:23,852 --> 01:09:26,250 a piece of that, a piece of the plaster. 1524 01:09:26,250 --> 01:09:26,790 MARK JARZOMBEK: Oh, really? 1525 01:09:26,790 --> 01:09:27,490 AUDIENCE: Yeah. 1526 01:09:27,490 --> 01:09:28,100 AUDIENCE: Really? 1527 01:09:28,100 --> 01:09:28,660 Oh, interesting. 1528 01:09:28,660 --> 01:09:30,390 AUDIENCE: And she tells me that it's still out 1529 01:09:30,390 --> 01:09:31,223 there on the river. 1530 01:09:31,223 --> 01:09:34,128 And maybe we'll drag sonar around and see 1531 01:09:34,128 --> 01:09:34,962 if we can find it. 1532 01:09:34,962 --> 01:09:39,040 AUDIENCE: Well, get that side-scan sonar. 1533 01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:40,834 He's an expert on this stuff. 1534 01:09:40,834 --> 01:09:42,292 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah, let's go find it. 1535 01:09:42,292 --> 01:09:44,460 Yeah, it was a great moment for MIT. 1536 01:09:44,460 --> 01:09:45,240 There's no doubt. 1537 01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:46,609 [? Elliot ?] was at the ceremony. 1538 01:09:46,609 --> 01:09:47,600 AUDIENCE: Was he really? 1539 01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:49,674 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah. 1540 01:09:49,674 --> 01:09:51,050 But, I mean, you could-- 1541 01:09:51,050 --> 01:09:53,970 they were just clearly probably chafing 1542 01:09:53,970 --> 01:09:56,304 at the bit on this. 1543 01:09:56,304 --> 01:09:57,370 It was a huge [INAUDIBLE]. 1544 01:09:57,370 --> 01:09:59,460 And it was a great moment for MIT. 1545 01:09:59,460 --> 01:10:01,810 The reality was they were practically bankrupt again. 1546 01:10:01,810 --> 01:10:04,110 Because they had this great building. 1547 01:10:04,110 --> 01:10:07,320 But the building was vastly over-expensive, by more 1548 01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:09,100 expensive than the 10 millions. 1549 01:10:09,100 --> 01:10:12,520 And so Eastman kept on dishing out millions 1550 01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:13,910 and millions millions. 1551 01:10:13,910 --> 01:10:17,150 And you got to remember, 10 million back then, I mean, 1552 01:10:17,150 --> 01:10:19,570 it's not 10 million even [INAUDIBLE] today. 1553 01:10:19,570 --> 01:10:20,950 But you probably have to add a zero. 1554 01:10:20,950 --> 01:10:24,870 So it's something like 100 million, which is a huge 1555 01:10:24,870 --> 01:10:30,160 amount as a single gift to create a building like this. 1556 01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:32,280 I mean, it's like an unbelievable event in the 1557 01:10:32,280 --> 01:10:33,540 history of philanthropy. 1558 01:10:33,540 --> 01:10:36,840 American philanthropy is just one of these great, marvelous 1559 01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:39,140 inventions. 1560 01:10:39,140 --> 01:10:40,725 I mean, one can think about capitalism in 1561 01:10:40,725 --> 01:10:41,460 all sorts of ways. 1562 01:10:41,460 --> 01:10:44,620 But you go around the world and capitalism does not 1563 01:10:44,620 --> 01:10:46,935 produce philanthropy like it ever did in the America sense. 1564 01:10:46,935 --> 01:10:50,880 And this is one of the great moments of that. 1565 01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:51,670 AUDIENCE: That's interesting. 1566 01:10:51,670 --> 01:10:54,670 AUDIENCE: It said that he's been donating money as 1567 01:10:54,670 --> 01:10:55,170 [INAUDIBLE]. 1568 01:10:55,170 --> 01:10:56,170 MARK JARZOMBEK: I'm sorry? 1569 01:10:56,170 --> 01:10:57,170 AUDIENCE: He was known as Mr. Smith. 1570 01:10:57,170 --> 01:10:59,022 And he didn't want to be known. 1571 01:10:59,022 --> 01:11:01,914 So when did he-- 1572 01:11:01,914 --> 01:11:02,878 MARK JARZOMBEK: When did he come out? 1573 01:11:02,878 --> 01:11:04,806 AUDIENCE: Yeah, when did he tell everybody that he was 1574 01:11:04,806 --> 01:11:05,300 [INAUDIBLE]. 1575 01:11:05,300 --> 01:11:10,260 MARK JARZOMBEK: It came out, I think, when Maclaurin died. 1576 01:11:10,260 --> 01:11:16,190 I think he leaked it out. 1577 01:11:16,190 --> 01:11:19,320 I mean, the whole thing killed Maclaurin. 1578 01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:22,810 I mean, it made him age overnight. 1579 01:11:22,810 --> 01:11:27,060 And within a few years, he was dead. 1580 01:11:27,060 --> 01:11:32,060 I mean it's just astonishing, they type of effort it takes, 1581 01:11:32,060 --> 01:11:37,121 the human and human cost, to [INAUDIBLE]. 1582 01:11:37,121 --> 01:11:39,252 AUDIENCE: It's in the Prescott book, but not on the part that 1583 01:11:39,252 --> 01:11:42,860 was assigned, I think, where they revealed the identity of 1584 01:11:42,860 --> 01:11:45,360 Eastman, with Eastman's permission, once the whole 1585 01:11:45,360 --> 01:11:48,420 thing was done at a reception for the 1586 01:11:48,420 --> 01:11:50,570 corporation at Gray House. 1587 01:11:50,570 --> 01:11:53,615 And Maclaurin basically went upstairs and keeled over and 1588 01:11:53,615 --> 01:11:59,130 died at the reception at the president's house. 1589 01:11:59,130 --> 01:12:00,690 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1590 01:12:00,690 --> 01:12:03,095 AUDIENCE: Up in their apartment's where [INAUDIBLE]. 1591 01:12:03,095 --> 01:12:11,320 [LAUGHTER] 1592 01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:13,200 AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] killed a lot of presidents. 1593 01:12:18,710 --> 01:12:21,790 AUDIENCE: Somebody had a question in their reflection 1594 01:12:21,790 --> 01:12:25,870 about why did Eastman give the money to MIT. 1595 01:12:25,870 --> 01:12:28,110 He was not an MIT graduate. 1596 01:12:28,110 --> 01:12:30,102 Who asked that question? 1597 01:12:30,102 --> 01:12:32,592 Somebody did. 1598 01:12:32,592 --> 01:12:33,820 No? 1599 01:12:33,820 --> 01:12:34,860 Am I think-- 1600 01:12:34,860 --> 01:12:36,590 boy, I'm having a bad day here. 1601 01:12:36,590 --> 01:12:37,090 Pardon? 1602 01:12:37,090 --> 01:12:39,140 AUDIENCE: --was why he gave it anonymously. 1603 01:12:39,140 --> 01:12:40,390 AUDIENCE: OK. 1604 01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:43,850 Why? 1605 01:12:43,850 --> 01:12:44,680 Does anyone know? 1606 01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:45,930 MARK JARZOMBEK: I don't know. 1607 01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:53,830 AUDIENCE: Because I think in Prescott's book, when MIT was 1608 01:12:53,830 --> 01:12:58,150 Boston Tech, isn't he the one that says the reason why 1609 01:12:58,150 --> 01:13:00,550 Eastman gave the money was that it had to do with the 1610 01:13:00,550 --> 01:13:04,870 fact that he employed a lot of MIT graduates and was 1611 01:13:04,870 --> 01:13:05,780 impressed by them. 1612 01:13:05,780 --> 01:13:06,850 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah. 1613 01:13:06,850 --> 01:13:09,000 But why he remained anonymous, I have no idea. 1614 01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,350 AUDIENCE: Eastman was a strange guy too. 1615 01:13:11,350 --> 01:13:12,240 AUDIENCE: Was he? 1616 01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:15,645 AUDIENCE: He was dead by suicide within a few years 1617 01:13:15,645 --> 01:13:20,650 after all this happened anyway, I've heard. 1618 01:13:20,650 --> 01:13:24,010 I've never seen any evidence for this. 1619 01:13:24,010 --> 01:13:27,210 It's also interesting to look at was that one of the sources 1620 01:13:27,210 --> 01:13:34,840 of MIT's big impact in 20th century industry was that they 1621 01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:38,070 were so broke after they built the buildings that they 1622 01:13:38,070 --> 01:13:41,080 basically laid off the faculty one day a week and encouraged 1623 01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:44,510 them to make up their incomes by consulting. 1624 01:13:44,510 --> 01:13:46,410 And it's still true today that the faculty are allowed to 1625 01:13:46,410 --> 01:13:48,215 consult one day a week. 1626 01:13:48,215 --> 01:13:51,890 And that, born as a budget-cutting measure, 1627 01:13:51,890 --> 01:13:55,610 actually ended up doing a lot to diffuse MIT's technology 1628 01:13:55,610 --> 01:13:56,460 into [INAUDIBLE]. 1629 01:13:56,460 --> 01:13:57,340 AUDIENCE: Wow. 1630 01:13:57,340 --> 01:14:00,238 Cool. 1631 01:14:00,238 --> 01:14:01,687 AUDIENCE: But I've only heard that as a story. 1632 01:14:01,687 --> 01:14:04,110 I've never actually seen any documents about that. 1633 01:14:04,110 --> 01:14:08,150 AUDIENCE: Well, I know that in the School of Engineering, not 1634 01:14:08,150 --> 01:14:11,210 in the School of Humanities and Social Sciences, as 1635 01:14:11,210 --> 01:14:16,850 recently as 1980, assistant professors were required to 1636 01:14:16,850 --> 01:14:20,210 raise I think it was 50% of their salary 1637 01:14:20,210 --> 01:14:22,180 through outside grants. 1638 01:14:22,180 --> 01:14:25,070 And associate professors had to raise a certain percentage. 1639 01:14:25,070 --> 01:14:27,330 And even full professors, although it was a small 1640 01:14:27,330 --> 01:14:29,150 percentage at that point. 1641 01:14:29,150 --> 01:14:33,610 And that ended basically when they started to go-- 1642 01:14:33,610 --> 01:14:36,580 well, convert over to a more endowed 1643 01:14:36,580 --> 01:14:38,340 professorships, things like that. 1644 01:14:38,340 --> 01:14:44,220 It was during a fund-raising venture in the 1990s perhaps. 1645 01:14:44,220 --> 01:14:47,290 So that's lasted. 1646 01:14:47,290 --> 01:14:49,320 AUDIENCE: Do you think MIT's relationship to it's 1647 01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:50,595 architecture has stayed the same? 1648 01:14:50,595 --> 01:14:54,876 Or how has it changed since 1960? 1649 01:14:54,876 --> 01:14:56,260 A lot has been said in the last ten years. 1650 01:14:56,260 --> 01:14:59,400 MARK JARZOMBEK: As you point out, MIT, so much went into 1651 01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:01,863 the main building that basically the rest of the 1652 01:15:01,863 --> 01:15:03,750 campus, apart from the president's house, the 1653 01:15:03,750 --> 01:15:06,265 dormitory [INAUDIBLE] 1654 01:15:06,265 --> 01:15:08,520 just didn't really get built. 1655 01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:12,450 So that, I mean, for better or for worse, I don't know. 1656 01:15:12,450 --> 01:15:16,290 But the dormitory section was going to be behind Walker, 1657 01:15:16,290 --> 01:15:17,258 that whole area. 1658 01:15:17,258 --> 01:15:20,162 And eventually they built those two dorms back there. 1659 01:15:20,162 --> 01:15:21,620 But they're absolutely nothing like what 1660 01:15:21,620 --> 01:15:22,680 Bosworth had really planned. 1661 01:15:22,680 --> 01:15:27,930 He planned a whole little sort of community back there. 1662 01:15:27,930 --> 01:15:31,430 So that opened up sort of this territorial 1663 01:15:31,430 --> 01:15:35,310 problem about expansion. 1664 01:15:35,310 --> 01:15:41,280 So the idea of a mega building expanding but always be one 1665 01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:45,260 building then also went against the modernist ethos of 1666 01:15:45,260 --> 01:15:48,180 free-standing great buildings and so forth. 1667 01:15:48,180 --> 01:15:51,240 So you had the library building, 1668 01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:52,610 which is a lovely building. 1669 01:15:52,610 --> 01:15:56,050 It's '51 or something like that. 1670 01:15:56,050 --> 01:15:59,590 But that was supposed to be the library. 1671 01:15:59,590 --> 01:16:02,160 Then where the music hall was is a little student center. 1672 01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:04,550 AUDIENCE: Which building is this? 1673 01:16:04,550 --> 01:16:06,730 MARK JARZOMBEK: The Hayden Library. 1674 01:16:06,730 --> 01:16:07,000 That's right. 1675 01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:07,675 So there's a courtyard. 1676 01:16:07,675 --> 01:16:10,220 And the courtyard belonged to the little student center. 1677 01:16:10,220 --> 01:16:12,480 So where the music library is would be the student center. 1678 01:16:12,480 --> 01:16:13,540 The doors would open up. 1679 01:16:13,540 --> 01:16:18,890 And at night you could have social life and then 1680 01:16:18,890 --> 01:16:19,360 professors. 1681 01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:21,190 So it was professors, books, and students. 1682 01:16:21,190 --> 01:16:24,000 It was a whole little island. 1683 01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:26,120 Well, that lasted for all of five or six years. 1684 01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:28,780 And then the library wanted more space. 1685 01:16:28,780 --> 01:16:29,915 And the professors wanted more space. 1686 01:16:29,915 --> 01:16:34,310 And to hell with the student life. 1687 01:16:34,310 --> 01:16:35,980 So they got rid of those. 1688 01:16:35,980 --> 01:16:38,240 So the courtyard died. 1689 01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:39,500 And now no one goes into the courtyard. 1690 01:16:39,500 --> 01:16:40,920 And it's sort of sad. 1691 01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:44,200 You know, they put some statues in there. 1692 01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:44,780 But that was [INAUDIBLE] 1693 01:16:44,780 --> 01:16:45,300 experiment. 1694 01:16:45,300 --> 01:16:49,770 But it was exactly an anti-Bosworth world. 1695 01:16:49,770 --> 01:16:53,540 Let's build a building like a little enclave as opposed to 1696 01:16:53,540 --> 01:16:54,880 this sort of connected tissue. 1697 01:16:57,770 --> 01:17:01,340 So that was the beginning of sort of the mistakes, I think, 1698 01:17:01,340 --> 01:17:03,920 that the campus eventually made. 1699 01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:05,270 Then they built these buildings which sort of 1700 01:17:05,270 --> 01:17:07,590 continue it but don't really continue. 1701 01:17:07,590 --> 01:17:10,910 Whereas these buildings were designed, obviously, in 1702 01:17:10,910 --> 01:17:15,290 continuation of the courtyard to some degree. 1703 01:17:15,290 --> 01:17:18,600 And I do like these buildings better. 1704 01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:23,850 But basically this part of the campus just got fizzled up and 1705 01:17:23,850 --> 01:17:27,960 chewed up with discontinuous buildings. 1706 01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:32,806 The worst building of them all is building nine on Mass Ave, 1707 01:17:32,806 --> 01:17:35,120 designed by Skidmore, Owings, and Merrill. 1708 01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:36,020 So you know which one. 1709 01:17:36,020 --> 01:17:37,910 You have the steps going up to your left. 1710 01:17:37,910 --> 01:17:39,150 It's sort of a modern thing. 1711 01:17:39,150 --> 01:17:40,800 AUDIENCE: It's also, like, connected-- 1712 01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:42,300 MARK JARZOMBEK: And it completely disconnected. 1713 01:17:42,300 --> 01:17:43,140 AUDIENCE: No-- 1714 01:17:43,140 --> 01:17:44,680 MARK JARZOMBEK: It's connected, but not on the 1715 01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:45,420 third floor. 1716 01:17:45,420 --> 01:17:47,740 And the fourth floor, you've got to go down some steps. 1717 01:17:47,740 --> 01:17:49,920 Because they wanted to put five floors in the space of 1718 01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:50,370 three floors. 1719 01:17:50,370 --> 01:17:51,756 AUDIENCE: It didn't used to be that way. 1720 01:17:51,756 --> 01:17:53,142 That happened with the library. 1721 01:17:53,142 --> 01:17:54,530 It used to be connected. 1722 01:17:54,530 --> 01:17:55,740 MARK JARZOMBEK: That's right. 1723 01:17:55,740 --> 01:18:00,180 So the idea of these giant floors and ceilings was a big 1724 01:18:00,180 --> 01:18:02,260 problem for these modern buildings because by this time 1725 01:18:02,260 --> 01:18:02,855 we had ventilation. 1726 01:18:02,855 --> 01:18:07,400 And we don't need to have 12-foot, 20-foot floors. 1727 01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,510 You want 8-foot, 9-foot, and then you're done with it. 1728 01:18:10,510 --> 01:18:13,280 So you can pack much more floor space that you could in 1729 01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:14,490 these older buildings. 1730 01:18:14,490 --> 01:18:16,650 But it means, of course, that you're going to ruin any kind 1731 01:18:16,650 --> 01:18:20,070 of continuity of that. 1732 01:18:20,070 --> 01:18:22,940 AUDIENCE: Interesting. 1733 01:18:22,940 --> 01:18:24,580 MARK JARZOMBEK: And then they refurbished these buildings. 1734 01:18:24,580 --> 01:18:26,200 They weren't too bad. 1735 01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:31,550 The skins of these buildings used to be orange and yellow, 1736 01:18:31,550 --> 01:18:32,580 which I thought was really lovely. 1737 01:18:32,580 --> 01:18:35,820 And then they painted it this sort of blah, MIT blah-- 1738 01:18:35,820 --> 01:18:38,250 [LAUGHTER] 1739 01:18:38,250 --> 01:18:39,440 MARK JARZOMBEK: I don't know, white. 1740 01:18:39,440 --> 01:18:43,280 Not white, it's sort of beige, beige-y. 1741 01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:45,870 They painted everything, just sort of toned everything down 1742 01:18:45,870 --> 01:18:47,210 when they did the big restoration of these 1743 01:18:47,210 --> 01:18:48,510 buildings, which I think is really sad. 1744 01:18:51,410 --> 01:18:53,640 But yeah, I mean, it was a problem. 1745 01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:59,390 I mean, campus design in the beginning of the '40s through 1746 01:18:59,390 --> 01:19:02,780 the war, after the war, into '70s, was basically big, 1747 01:19:02,780 --> 01:19:04,330 chunky buildings. 1748 01:19:04,330 --> 01:19:06,440 And this went against-- and it was great for everywhere else. 1749 01:19:06,440 --> 01:19:07,790 It was great for other campuses, 1750 01:19:07,790 --> 01:19:08,860 which had big spaces. 1751 01:19:08,860 --> 01:19:09,850 You could put a big chunky building. 1752 01:19:09,850 --> 01:19:12,980 So we got our student center, which is the big, ugly chunky 1753 01:19:12,980 --> 01:19:17,950 building designed by the former dean of MIT. 1754 01:19:17,950 --> 01:19:19,570 So that's how you design buildings. 1755 01:19:19,570 --> 01:19:23,540 And this idea of these sort of continual flow buildings, 1756 01:19:23,540 --> 01:19:26,870 open-ended spaces just wasn't going to happen. 1757 01:19:26,870 --> 01:19:28,930 And the Gehry building tries to return a 1758 01:19:28,930 --> 01:19:29,480 little bit to that. 1759 01:19:29,480 --> 01:19:30,680 I mean, that's the great thing about it. 1760 01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:38,030 It tries to actually re-envision a world where you 1761 01:19:38,030 --> 01:19:44,265 can go into space and there's some flexibility of ownership 1762 01:19:44,265 --> 01:19:45,515 to some degree. 1763 01:19:47,770 --> 01:19:51,850 AUDIENCE: The student center and the Dewey Library, 1764 01:19:51,850 --> 01:19:56,050 Political Science Building remind me of-- 1765 01:19:56,050 --> 01:19:58,140 I don't know if they were designed by the same person. 1766 01:19:58,140 --> 01:20:01,690 But were they built during the Vietnam War period? 1767 01:20:01,690 --> 01:20:02,050 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah. 1768 01:20:02,050 --> 01:20:02,470 Well, '68. 1769 01:20:02,470 --> 01:20:03,760 AUDIENCE: They remind me of being-- they're 1770 01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:05,890 like frontier garrisons. 1771 01:20:05,890 --> 01:20:11,200 They're like stockades, and walled-off, and very 1772 01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:12,550 defensible looking. 1773 01:20:12,550 --> 01:20:13,260 MARK JARZOMBEK: You can date these 1774 01:20:13,260 --> 01:20:15,810 buildings 1968 to '72 usually. 1775 01:20:15,810 --> 01:20:18,700 The University's basically decided students are bad. 1776 01:20:18,700 --> 01:20:20,840 We're going to make buildings that look like fortresses-- 1777 01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,550 they're made out of concrete-- that they can't ruin, destroy, 1778 01:20:23,550 --> 01:20:26,580 beat up, or do anything with. 1779 01:20:26,580 --> 01:20:28,700 The student center has a certain 1780 01:20:28,700 --> 01:20:31,370 elegance to it's design. 1781 01:20:31,370 --> 01:20:34,750 And look at it at night, it's actually quite spectacular. 1782 01:20:34,750 --> 01:20:37,490 But basically it is a fortress, I mean, literally. 1783 01:20:37,490 --> 01:20:40,440 It's got the shooting arrows up there. 1784 01:20:40,440 --> 01:20:41,420 [INTERPOSING VOICES] 1785 01:20:41,420 --> 01:20:43,250 MARK JARZOMBEK: I mean, [MAKES SHOOTING NOISES]. 1786 01:20:43,250 --> 01:20:45,110 Like, what kind of a message does that send? 1787 01:20:45,110 --> 01:20:48,080 I mean, that is like not good. 1788 01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:50,940 But every university in America has one. 1789 01:20:50,940 --> 01:20:55,186 This is very popular among-- you know, the administrators 1790 01:20:55,186 --> 01:20:58,312 want mean-looking buildings. 1791 01:20:58,312 --> 01:21:01,276 AUDIENCE: Why do the interesting buildings like 1792 01:21:01,276 --> 01:21:05,228 Kresge, which is kind of not normal, and the chapel, and 1793 01:21:05,228 --> 01:21:07,210 the Stata Center [INAUDIBLE]. 1794 01:21:07,210 --> 01:21:08,230 MARK JARZOMBEK: In the '50s. 1795 01:21:08,230 --> 01:21:12,860 And after the '50s, MIT had this process-- 1796 01:21:12,860 --> 01:21:15,270 you might know more about it-- 1797 01:21:15,270 --> 01:21:16,990 the new man type thing. 1798 01:21:16,990 --> 01:21:19,990 Which they were afraid that MIT students were going to be 1799 01:21:19,990 --> 01:21:21,880 too engineering oriented. 1800 01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:25,630 And they wanted MIT students to have culture, so be 1801 01:21:25,630 --> 01:21:28,190 cultural representatives. 1802 01:21:28,190 --> 01:21:33,310 So the idea of the Kresge Auditorium was where 1803 01:21:33,310 --> 01:21:34,370 symphonies could be held. 1804 01:21:34,370 --> 01:21:35,700 And people could learn something 1805 01:21:35,700 --> 01:21:39,020 about symphonies, music. 1806 01:21:39,020 --> 01:21:42,400 And the nondenominational chapel was a place where we 1807 01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:42,970 sort of think. 1808 01:21:42,970 --> 01:21:45,263 You know, after the war, and after the atom bomb, MIT felt 1809 01:21:45,263 --> 01:21:48,300 a little guilty about all that stuff. 1810 01:21:48,300 --> 01:21:51,330 So this was where we're going to try to heal. 1811 01:21:51,330 --> 01:21:54,080 And so we need scientists who are healing agents and who are 1812 01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:56,890 sophisticated people, not just going to go out and make bombs 1813 01:21:56,890 --> 01:21:58,510 and whatever. 1814 01:21:58,510 --> 01:22:03,010 So this was part of that thing. 1815 01:22:03,010 --> 01:22:06,150 Yeah, so that was a very sliver of a moment. 1816 01:22:06,150 --> 01:22:10,580 And that's when the [INAUDIBLE] gets formed. 1817 01:22:10,580 --> 01:22:17,160 So it's part of the emergence of humanities departments. 1818 01:22:23,790 --> 01:22:27,470 AUDIENCE: I loved what you said in your lecture when you 1819 01:22:27,470 --> 01:22:29,900 were describing the emergence of different 1820 01:22:29,900 --> 01:22:33,480 schools, 1873, 1900. 1821 01:22:33,480 --> 01:22:34,220 You said-- 1822 01:22:34,220 --> 01:22:36,760 I don't know if you purposely said it, but you said it. 1823 01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:40,750 And you said here we see modernity being formed. 1824 01:22:40,750 --> 01:22:42,774 I thought that is a very interesting comment. 1825 01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:50,090 To see these departments changing and shifting, that's 1826 01:22:50,090 --> 01:22:52,860 a very interesting comment. 1827 01:22:52,860 --> 01:22:55,050 AUDIENCE: Another good student project would be to make a 1828 01:22:55,050 --> 01:22:59,520 family tree of the MIT department's over time. 1829 01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:01,610 People have done these trees with other kinds 1830 01:23:01,610 --> 01:23:03,240 of knowledge systems. 1831 01:23:03,240 --> 01:23:06,607 And sort of show how each department either morphed or 1832 01:23:06,607 --> 01:23:08,650 got substituted over time coming down. 1833 01:23:08,650 --> 01:23:12,190 Because we talked a lot about or a little bit about that 1834 01:23:12,190 --> 01:23:12,680 [INAUDIBLE] 1835 01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:15,130 AUDIENCE: This was actually something I found online. 1836 01:23:15,130 --> 01:23:21,010 The San Diego Club of MIT has a list of all of the 1837 01:23:21,010 --> 01:23:23,460 departments course numbers corresponding 1838 01:23:23,460 --> 01:23:25,420 with things in history. 1839 01:23:27,970 --> 01:23:28,610 AUDIENCE: How do you find it? 1840 01:23:28,610 --> 01:23:30,310 Do you just Google it? 1841 01:23:30,310 --> 01:23:31,780 AUDIENCE: I can send it to you. 1842 01:23:31,780 --> 01:23:32,270 AUDIENCE: Yeah, great. 1843 01:23:32,270 --> 01:23:35,270 MARK JARZOMBEK: Yeah, the point is to understand that 1844 01:23:35,270 --> 01:23:37,815 all these shifts reflect things that are happening in 1845 01:23:37,815 --> 01:23:39,690 the outside world. 1846 01:23:39,690 --> 01:23:44,330 So in what way does this map, which is what this is, give us 1847 01:23:44,330 --> 01:23:46,170 the topography of the world? 1848 01:23:46,170 --> 01:23:50,740 We don't see what's happening in the outside world. 1849 01:23:50,740 --> 01:23:54,150 I can't remember when it was, but in 1943 there's a 1850 01:23:54,150 --> 01:23:56,230 psychology department. 1851 01:23:56,230 --> 01:23:57,625 And it lasts about 10 years. 1852 01:23:57,625 --> 01:23:59,946 And then it disappears. 1853 01:23:59,946 --> 01:24:01,230 And you sort of scratch your head. 1854 01:24:01,230 --> 01:24:02,745 You know, what was that about? 1855 01:24:02,745 --> 01:24:06,760 Well, a lot to do with military psychology. 1856 01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:07,490 And things like that. 1857 01:24:07,490 --> 01:24:11,160 So all of the shifting signifiers of these 1858 01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:15,680 departments are really sort of traces of energies that are 1859 01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:16,780 taking place. 1860 01:24:16,780 --> 01:24:21,295 And MIT, in an odd way, is really-- you know, something 1861 01:24:21,295 --> 01:24:23,720 could happen and you can sort of see it. 1862 01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:26,340 I mean, it doesn't take 20 years or 30 years for these 1863 01:24:26,340 --> 01:24:26,990 departments. 1864 01:24:26,990 --> 01:24:30,510 What's beautiful about [? MIT ?] is the really rapid 1865 01:24:30,510 --> 01:24:32,370 elasticity of these departments 1866 01:24:32,370 --> 01:24:34,540 in coming and going. 1867 01:24:34,540 --> 01:24:39,320 So in the 1880s, when it was the great evolution, if you 1868 01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:43,040 will, of the idea of a professional class-- 1869 01:24:43,040 --> 01:24:45,390 it happened very rapidly in the 1880s, the emergence of a 1870 01:24:45,390 --> 01:24:49,810 professional class, politically, in so many ways-- 1871 01:24:49,810 --> 01:24:52,290 you just sort of see that in the MIT 1872 01:24:52,290 --> 01:24:55,470 departmental structure. 1873 01:24:55,470 --> 01:24:57,670 From a gentlemanly class to a professional class, and it 1874 01:24:57,670 --> 01:25:00,760 just happens right there. 1875 01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:05,130 And all of these changes are mapping these forces. 1876 01:25:05,130 --> 01:25:08,920 And it's a great way, it would be certainly a great thesis to 1877 01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:10,670 use that as indicators. 1878 01:25:10,670 --> 01:25:13,100 AUDIENCE: It would be, definitely. 1879 01:25:13,100 --> 01:25:15,773 AUDIENCE: When did people start referring to the courses 1880 01:25:15,773 --> 01:25:17,960 by their number? 1881 01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:20,632 So, like, was it confusing for a while when they were making 1882 01:25:20,632 --> 01:25:21,362 all these changes? 1883 01:25:21,362 --> 01:25:24,278 Or did no one say, like, oh, [INAUDIBLE] 1884 01:25:24,278 --> 01:25:26,222 use that terminology? 1885 01:25:26,222 --> 01:25:26,708 AUDIENCE: I don't know. 1886 01:25:26,708 --> 01:25:28,680 AUDIENCE: Good question. 1887 01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:31,250 Debbie Douglas, when she comes, we should ask her. 1888 01:25:31,250 --> 01:25:34,250 Because I know she has a particular way of thinking 1889 01:25:34,250 --> 01:25:35,240 about that. 1890 01:25:35,240 --> 01:25:38,480 There are lots of suppositions, I guess. 1891 01:25:38,480 --> 01:25:40,540 And I don't know that anyone has the answer. 1892 01:25:40,540 --> 01:25:42,800 But she has some pretty interesting things to say 1893 01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:46,400 about how the numbering system came about. 1894 01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:48,750 AUDIENCE: Anybody hear of the Engineering Systems Division? 1895 01:25:48,750 --> 01:25:50,640 It's a big thing on campus today. 1896 01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:52,260 And I've been very involved with them. 1897 01:25:52,260 --> 01:25:56,221 And 10 years ago when it was just forming, we used to have 1898 01:25:56,221 --> 01:26:00,000 these off-campus retreats a couple times a year to talk 1899 01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:03,380 about what this department or division was going to be. 1900 01:26:03,380 --> 01:26:05,040 And it was sort of a lot of hand-wringing. 1901 01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:08,520 But there were people in the room from six or eight 1902 01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:11,250 different schools of engineering and the management 1903 01:26:11,250 --> 01:26:15,090 school and humanities and all kinds of different places, and 1904 01:26:15,090 --> 01:26:16,210 they were all talking together. 1905 01:26:16,210 --> 01:26:19,590 And at the time, MIT had a big relationship with Cambridge 1906 01:26:19,590 --> 01:26:20,805 University in the UK. 1907 01:26:20,805 --> 01:26:22,610 Still have a little bit of that, the 1908 01:26:22,610 --> 01:26:23,920 Cambridge MIT Institute. 1909 01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:25,220 And there were a couple of guests there 1910 01:26:25,220 --> 01:26:27,910 one year from Cambridge. 1911 01:26:27,910 --> 01:26:30,360 And we spent a whole day sort of with this kind of 1912 01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:32,610 conversation, and a little bit anxious about 1913 01:26:32,610 --> 01:26:33,520 what's it going to be? 1914 01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:34,605 How's it going to define itself? 1915 01:26:34,605 --> 01:26:35,700 Where are all these people? 1916 01:26:35,700 --> 01:26:38,340 And at the end of the day, the people from Cambridge raised 1917 01:26:38,340 --> 01:26:41,540 their hand and they said, I just have to tell you, as 1918 01:26:41,540 --> 01:26:43,820 worried as you all are about how you're going to make this 1919 01:26:43,820 --> 01:26:46,100 thing work, from where we come from it looks 1920 01:26:46,100 --> 01:26:47,640 just totally amazing. 1921 01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:50,440 Because at Cambridge, a department gets formed. 1922 01:26:50,440 --> 01:26:53,400 And then for 600 years nobody talks to anybody else in any 1923 01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:54,512 of the other departments. 1924 01:26:54,512 --> 01:26:56,770 And you can't even get people in the same room together to 1925 01:26:56,770 --> 01:26:57,725 talk about this issue. 1926 01:26:57,725 --> 01:26:59,720 And here there are people from ten different departments 1927 01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:01,150 talking about this. 1928 01:27:01,150 --> 01:27:03,210 And that was just one of those moments that sort of puts into 1929 01:27:03,210 --> 01:27:05,810 relief what's so fluid about this place. 1930 01:27:13,180 --> 01:27:14,220 MARK JARZOMBEK: I mean, civil engineering is 1931 01:27:14,220 --> 01:27:18,300 now subsumed, right? 1932 01:27:18,300 --> 01:27:20,162 What happened to civil engineering? 1933 01:27:20,162 --> 01:27:20,890 It's one. 1934 01:27:20,890 --> 01:27:22,840 It's still one? 1935 01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:24,250 AUDIENCE: Yeah, I think it is. 1936 01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:28,030 I was going to-- 1937 01:27:28,030 --> 01:27:31,940 I wanted to say something about I call it boundary 1938 01:27:31,940 --> 01:27:34,530 crossing that takes place here at MIT. 1939 01:27:34,530 --> 01:27:38,830 It has surely picked up here in the last 10 years. 1940 01:27:38,830 --> 01:27:42,270 I mean, you see it when students that major in 1941 01:27:42,270 --> 01:27:46,280 mechanical engineering end up doing what I would identify as 1942 01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:46,870 electrical engineering. 1943 01:27:46,870 --> 01:27:49,260 You know, there's just lots of crossing 1944 01:27:49,260 --> 01:27:51,330 over in research groups. 1945 01:27:51,330 --> 01:27:56,900 And had that existed since when? 1946 01:27:56,900 --> 01:27:58,530 Were there more-- 1947 01:27:58,530 --> 01:28:03,270 there must have been stricter disciplinary divides between 1948 01:28:03,270 --> 01:28:06,800 these departments as you go back in time. 1949 01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:11,250 But I don't know exactly when do you identify the end of 1950 01:28:11,250 --> 01:28:15,060 that and the beginning of more of these interdisciplinary 1951 01:28:15,060 --> 01:28:15,476 collaborations? 1952 01:28:15,476 --> 01:28:18,350 Is it World War II, [? NORAD ?] lab or 1953 01:28:18,350 --> 01:28:19,524 something like that? 1954 01:28:19,524 --> 01:28:22,590 AUDIENCE: I mean, I saw, like, in the MIT Museum, that little 1955 01:28:22,590 --> 01:28:24,826 place where they had like the-- 1956 01:28:27,790 --> 01:28:30,760 something about, like, electrical engineering and 1957 01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:31,440 [INAUDIBLE] 1958 01:28:31,440 --> 01:28:33,710 basically or Psychology. 1959 01:28:33,710 --> 01:28:35,988 So that was in the 1940s. 1960 01:28:35,988 --> 01:28:39,342 And they show up as one of the first interdisciplinary 1961 01:28:39,342 --> 01:28:42,110 projects at MIT where they combined electrical 1962 01:28:42,110 --> 01:28:46,764 engineering and, like, proto-computers. 1963 01:28:46,764 --> 01:28:50,469 AUDIENCE: So it's World War II-ish anyway. 1964 01:28:50,469 --> 01:28:53,400 AUDIENCE: I think it also relates to, like you saw from 1965 01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:56,950 Mark's chart, if you're talking about English, and 1966 01:28:56,950 --> 01:28:59,600 history, and law, and theology, you really do have 1967 01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:02,570 these 600-year traditions. 1968 01:29:02,570 --> 01:29:05,670 But beginning with the sciences and certainly in 1969 01:29:05,670 --> 01:29:10,680 engineering, there's no field of engineering that's older 1970 01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:12,290 than 200 years. 1971 01:29:12,290 --> 01:29:14,110 And most of them are less than 100 years old. 1972 01:29:14,110 --> 01:29:18,290 So any time you're in that game-- and the same is true, 1973 01:29:18,290 --> 01:29:20,210 to some degree, of the sciences-- 1974 01:29:20,210 --> 01:29:22,310 and things are professionalizing over the 1975 01:29:22,310 --> 01:29:23,630 course of-- 1976 01:29:23,630 --> 01:29:25,310 the boundaries are not particularly hard. 1977 01:29:25,310 --> 01:29:28,171 I mean, electrical engineering is this funny combination of 1978 01:29:28,171 --> 01:29:31,130 physics and other kinds of engineering that 1979 01:29:31,130 --> 01:29:32,460 comes out in the 1880s. 1980 01:29:32,460 --> 01:29:36,360 And computer science, that's also a strange hybrid of 1981 01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:38,350 psychology, and mathematics, and electrical engineering. 1982 01:29:41,390 --> 01:29:45,280 So at any given point, the disciplines that we have in a 1983 01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:48,910 technical school are only ever going to be 40 or 50 years old 1984 01:29:48,910 --> 01:29:50,100 in a certain way. 1985 01:29:50,100 --> 01:29:55,040 AUDIENCE: But it seems to have really increased in the last 1986 01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:59,080 15 years or so around here anyway. 1987 01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:00,500 There's a lot going on. 1988 01:30:00,500 --> 01:30:01,960 AUDIENCE: Well, I think when Roz Williams comes in, she'll 1989 01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:04,680 talk about the sort of anxieties about are the 1990 01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:07,830 engineering disciplines worth anything at all anymore. 1991 01:30:07,830 --> 01:30:08,960 I actually think they are. 1992 01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:12,130 But that's another conversation. 1993 01:30:12,130 --> 01:30:17,100 MARK JARZOMBEK: Well, engineering strikes me, from 1994 01:30:17,100 --> 01:30:18,850 the architect, as going downhill in the United States, 1995 01:30:18,850 --> 01:30:19,990 going uphill in Europe. 1996 01:30:19,990 --> 01:30:23,090 I don't know why there's a bit difference. 1997 01:30:23,090 --> 01:30:26,760 But the crossover issue, I think, at MIT is, I mean, when 1998 01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:31,110 I leave my office, I pass a colleague's office. 1999 01:30:31,110 --> 01:30:32,200 I pass the skin lab. 2000 01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:34,520 I don't know what the hell goes on in there. 2001 01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:35,690 [LAUGHTER] 2002 01:30:35,690 --> 01:30:37,190 MARK JARZOMBEK: That's where, someone told me, they invented 2003 01:30:37,190 --> 01:30:40,100 artificial skin. 2004 01:30:40,100 --> 01:30:42,820 And then I pass a lab that built a room with a lot of 2005 01:30:42,820 --> 01:30:45,340 nitrogen tanks sticking out in the hall. 2006 01:30:45,340 --> 01:30:47,090 I don't know what the hell is in there. 2007 01:30:47,090 --> 01:30:50,740 Then I pass a part of a library. 2008 01:30:50,740 --> 01:30:54,810 Then I pass a student center. 2009 01:30:54,810 --> 01:30:59,080 I mean, if I go from my office to the dean's office, down the 2010 01:30:59,080 --> 01:31:02,870 hall, I'm walking past three or four departments who own 2011 01:31:02,870 --> 01:31:05,370 bits and pieces of this landscape. 2012 01:31:05,370 --> 01:31:07,150 And it's very irritating. 2013 01:31:07,150 --> 01:31:10,230 Because to us, in the dean's office, we're going God. 2014 01:31:10,230 --> 01:31:12,770 I mean why do we have to walk all the way around. 2015 01:31:12,770 --> 01:31:15,080 But on the other hand, it's very MIT. 2016 01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:18,540 This sort of odd, gerrymandering of space that 2017 01:31:18,540 --> 01:31:23,980 we have, as frustrating as it is, is actually interesting. 2018 01:31:23,980 --> 01:31:26,880 It's sort of unique. 2019 01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:29,380 You can go to Harvard to the architecture school. 2020 01:31:29,380 --> 01:31:30,830 And there are only a whole building filled with 2021 01:31:30,830 --> 01:31:32,180 architects. 2022 01:31:32,180 --> 01:31:35,750 I'm not going to see people making skin lab or see big 2023 01:31:35,750 --> 01:31:38,460 hydrogen tanks sitting out in the hallway with smoke coming 2024 01:31:38,460 --> 01:31:39,710 out of them. 2025 01:31:42,370 --> 01:31:46,450 And I think that this is part of MIT culture and should be 2026 01:31:46,450 --> 01:31:46,980 maintained. 2027 01:31:46,980 --> 01:31:49,010 AUDIENCE: Yeah, I agree. 2028 01:31:49,010 --> 01:31:50,205 It makes it interesting. 2029 01:31:50,205 --> 01:31:53,040 AUDIENCE: OK, on that note, I think we can-- 2030 01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:53,560 MARK JARZOMBEK: All right, guys. 2031 01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:55,210 AUDIENCE: Yeah, thank you very much.